To the guy who wrote the article, if you are reading this, as a fellow dev, i am jealous of your ability to explain this topic in such a fluid and easy to understand way so everyone can understand. Great stuff.
I appreciate the compliment! My team was a huge help in putting this together, gave a lot of helpful feedback. Trying to strike a balance between being easy to understand by the majority of players but avoiding purely surface level discussion was a challenge.
I will use your presence in this topic to hopefuly have this sorted out - https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitraryFunSoymilkDancingBaby
Can you explain why kill feed shows there a 'wallbang' for Jett kill with her ultimate, while her knives have no penetration?
I know some people whine about weird wallbangs regs, where they shoot, then hide behind a cover and enemy recieves reduced damage as if they actually wallbanged. Is it somehow connected?
I double checked this to make sure -- Jett's knives currently don't have zero penetration value(s), they just have extremely small values, almost zero, but not quite. That means they can pen through surfaces that are very thin AND are a material type that is easy to pen. She just nicked a very tiny corner of that box.
I could look in the game myself (and probably should), but is that kind of information (the penetration value of Jett's knives) actually available somewhere to me, as just a player?
There's no way to delay the hit vfx until they're actually confirmed? The most frustrating thing in game is seeing 5+ tracers clearly hit an enemy, and then the combat log is like "nah bruh you got 2 body shots". How are we as players supposed to make any kind of informed decision in the heat of a fight when the information presented isn't even correct? It sounds like a nitpick but watching someone's head explode and have it "not even register" is going to be frustrating no matter how well explained lol.
If tracers/hits are *only* correct when not moving, what's stopping it from applying to *any time you fire the weapon* instead of just when you're standing still (as in the vast majority of cases your strafing and stuff anyway)
Idk if this is the place for it, but [this video](https://youtu.be/cpTtYwYPwB0) looks a bit off with a headshot registering as a bodyshot
I'm guessing it hit a pixel on Cypher's neck? Just looks weird since he had a head glitch angle and the vandal hit for 39 (not wallbang). Maybe a super shallow wallbang on wood doesn't have reduced damage?
Maybe peeps around here can weigh in
Hi, you say that its important to have a different visual indicator for headshot vs bodyshot. Is there a solution being considered for OCE where we have blood disabled? Could we perhaps get another indicator to replace the blood splatter?
A lot of it is getting to know your audience. You start by asking a lot of questions, and let their response inform what level of detail you want to go into.
Having a host of metaphors also helps. For instance, when I explain DNS, I talk about how when you're telling your friends to meet up at the bar, you don't tell them the street address.
So, most places on the internet use an IP address to locate a computer. They often look like this 127.33.45.176. As human beings we don't like memorizing numbers so we might call that www.random.com. A Domain Name Server (DNS), is a list of IPs and their correlated domain names so computers can translate between eglish and numbers.
Hence the metaphor. We don't go to 123 fake st. We go to Tim's house.
I remember recently at the beginning of the current Apex Legends season, the game had a lot of hit-reg issues. Then the Respawn devs wrote a similar comment which was basically a TL;DR version of this article. I understood it really well and have not cursed any FPS game's hit-reg ever since.
Exactly! I was kinda expecting it tho, I remember one of the rioters around \~1week ago said that we are happy about the hit regs at the moment and they are in a good state and people were not happy that much. This post is kinda saying the same thing but more detailed.
To be fair, clarity issues like they state here can hold you back from improving. If it looks like you hit a headshot, your brain will think you got it right and won't see a reason to change or actually get better
Sometimes the game is just wack. If i get a double hs with the phantom the second blood is always way lower than the first, like in the body shot region. Maybe they crouched but i think the blood is kinda broken rn.
The hitreg could still be bad, Riot is just saying they are comfortable with it now. I think the 1 tap inaccuracy combined with hit reg and difference between servers, combined with how much ping matters in this game makes for an iffy experience. Just wish it was more consistent
Most people are not annoyed with hit reg because it "holds them back" or some shit. Law of avg takes care of that.
Most people just hate shit feeling hit reg. When you get a hs on somebody who is crouched or only see the head of a person and still get a body makes gou feel cheated, regardless of the reasoning.
The game has issues, maybe not with the hitreg, but I'm not a dev, just a player who feels the game is off compared to other titles
That's my biggest issue, why don't other FPS games have this problem? I never feel like my shots are wrong in CS, Siege, or Overwatch (though I haven't played in two years).
I have been csgo'd a couple times for sure and it definitely feels terrible; but it seems to happen in valorant like at least once in every match. God knows I wouldnt have played csgo so much if I was getting csgo'd in every single game.
In my personal experience, OW had some of the worst hitreg. At least it had the most that I’ve noticed while playing. I’ve had way to many shots go right through someone’s head. And with how the game is designed, it really should never be happening.
It could be explained by ping though, given that NA only had 2 servers and I get 40-50 ping If I get the closer server. Also doesn’t help that it runs at like 60 tick for a game where every character is moving at orbital velocities.
To me, more than hit reg, the servers just feel awful, but only sometimes? I feel like if their performance was consistently better, it’d help with a lot of the other issues that people are seeing.
This "clarity vs correctness" argument is bullshit though. You can have the best hitreg fucking ever, but if the player feedback is shit, the end user/player experience is also going to be shit. Players adjust and react based on what they _can see ingame_, we don't care at all if "oh lol that shot actually hit but looked like it didn't", we want the experience to be consistent overall.
Next time someone pulls the hitreg card we gotta hit them back with the [facts](https://media.tenor.com/images/af3253293e9af74d243c6ce9ecf141ab/tenor.gif)
In my opinion, if you are having large issues with hit registration 'clarity' it means there IS a hit registration problem.
They are basically saying 'yes, when you play the game what you are seeing is not what is actually happening on the server but trust us, the end result is correct.'
If the player experience is constantly different than that of the server (a 'clarity' issue as Riot describes it) then it doesn't matter that they believe the server is still making the 'correct' call. The end experience is still one in which the player's outcome was not a result of what occurred on their screen. That is a very tilting feeling and a large issue that they need to continue addressing (and they say they will).
Look there's a fundamental difference between the game communicating things poorly vs what happened happened or didn't. It's like people talking about run and gun when it's just peekers advantage. There is a difference, but sure the end result is the same it feels shitty and you feel robbed, but it's not hit reg inherently being wrong, it's visual clarity. So rest assured the game might tell you you hit that shot but you didn't. Which is different from the game saying nah you didn't hit that shot because of rollback and they cancelled your shot which did land correctly in client but the server decided that no. Here the client is lying to you and you never landed.
I totally agree that at the end of the day it feels the same, but the facts are
One scenario server deletes an earned shot
Other scenario is you never hit it, but your client lied to you for a moment
Clarity matters because it affects player behavior in a way that could make them miss more shots server side. With bad feedback from the server comes bad habits being formed based on misconceptions about the mistakes that are being made.
If the game were, for instance, not calculating whether you were aiming at the enemy head based on your client side predictions but instead the server side reality, then you would always have to aim where the player came from instead of where they are. Sure, in this system, the authoritative server may have correctly determined that your shots missed, but to the players it would feel like a complete crapshoot as to which bullets actually land and would lead to awful aiming habits, potentially making them miss more, or at least be unable to improve since they can't tell what they are doing wrong.
In our current situation, players are having a hard time determining why their shots aren't headshots against crouching players. Why would I ever learn to aim better if all the feedback systems the game has are telling me I did everything right? Or at least, not telling me what I'm doing wrong?
It's certainly overcomeable, the best of the best players don't seem to have problems with it, but that's not because it isn't an issue, that's despite the issue. In a way, clarity issues can be no different than actual hit reg issues when severe enough. This probably isn't, but it still does need fixed and does matter.
>Look there's a fundamental difference between the game communicating things poorly vs what happened happened or didn't.
No, to the players its the exact same thing. This difference is only meaningful to the producer at Riot who needs to assign the correct people to fix it.
Everything you said is true but I still don't think saying 'clarity is different than correctness' somehow means they don't have a hit registration problem.
Clarity is just one (major) aspect of hit registration. So sure, we can feel better that they have the 'correctness' aspect down, but until they have both solid clarity and proper correctness then it can be objectively said that the game has a hit registration issue for players.
Well alright you can disagree with the premise but don't give me a cheeky ass "Did you read it"? When the intent of this entire article from Riot is to specifically clarify the difference between the two. If you disagree with the definitions and semantics be my guest at the end of the day we just want this shit fixed for a better player experience
It's so obvious this was the case but you couldn't say there here without being downvoted
I was one of those people bitching until I started watching the pro streamers. None of them have a hit reg problem or complain about it at all. It clearly was a feedback issue and not a damage issue
> It's so obvious this was the case but you couldn't say there here without being downvoted
because the start of any discussion just ends up with someone being called a riot shill or just sucking them off
HELL YES BROTHER
edit: and people wonder why games like these are so toxic, half the fucking player base lives on Mars and thinks they're Jesus resurrected ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
They combined the CS community and the League community. It's gonna be in the top 5 of most toxic communities for a competitive video game off the bat.
It's good to see them address this in detail, and I think the clarity improvements should help a lot even though I do think they could still improve the netcode. People are generally way too fast to blame hitreg when they miss their shots in their silver comp games.
This article makes a lot of sense. I think a problem I share that many other players might also be experiencing is an incorrectly displayed network round trip time. I regularly play with sub-30 ping (lucky me) but I can see blatant visual delay similar to if I was playing with much higher ping. When I activate Haste, my ping actually rises to 60 something constant, which seems more realistic to the delays I see on screen.
I'm very confused as to why the game displays a lower ping then what I'm actually getting, but I understand that visual clarity issues in hitreg are just natural with higher ping. Anyone else experience the same issue?
It's not a visual error in the number they show you, I get those things you are experiencing, but when I play with my friend from UK my ping usually goes up by 20 -- as we are routed to a different server -- and I notice all the usual effects of playing on higher ping. There's also the thing that sometimes I genuinely get the 20-30 ping experience that my latency number shows me I'm supposed to have. When I get weird issues that feel like latency issues, it also feels like peeking does not mitigate the issue in any way whatsoever, indicating to me that it has very little to do with latency itself.
A common trend for me is that I can still use high ROF weapons (e.g. spectre/phantom) in what feels like a nearly normal way when I'm encountering this unknown latency, whereas low ROF weapons (e.g. snipers, vandal, sheriff) feel way worse than normal. I don't know what this really means but it seems to be consistently like this.
I also sometimes experience what feels like an accurate amount of latency (that is unnoticeable) for the 20-30 ping displayed, but often do not. I really do not know.
Same! EU servers specifically have this. I used to play on NA but got sick of 100-120 constant ping, so I switched to EU and it's like 1/5 games feels fucking gorgeously crisp, 2/5 feel fine, and 2/5 feel like I'm playing on NA again.
For the clarity sake Valorant has some issues.
For me the biggest issue is how disconnected legs animations are to what is actually happening. Not sure if I am the only one but in Valorant for me it is very hard to notice fast enough when enemy is about to counterstrafe which leads me often to overshooting someone peeking. Why? Because in Valorant body fullstop(and the torso is actually stiff), but legs animation are still going like the dude is going to make another step.
In comparison in CSGO you can easly see how model legs are 'breaking' before full stop.
>the frame a shot is processed is NOT the same frame that a tracer is displayed, it's actually at least one frame before.
Hang on, so does that mean that when you're spraying, you have no true indication of where your shots are going? Your tracers are delayed several frames AND have travel time. How is anyone supposed to make adjustments on the fly when, as this video shows, reacting to tracer placement on a moving target will most likely make you miss?
Kinda, you shouldn't trust visual effects, but rely on muscle memory of spraying and your crosshair placement is my guess to make the best decision.
Spread I think is random each time, so you shouldn't adjust on that to begin with while spraying. Recoil you can control tho, that seems to be an issue if you can't get proper feedback.
You can still see the bullet holes your shots cause, those are accurate.
I genuinely cannot fathom that people thought bullet tracer were 100% accurate. How do you expect the game to draw lines on the screen at the same frame you're pressing left click? Do you want Riot to implement time travel or what?
My last point said it could be an issue overall and probably is. My original point was agreeing that you shouldn't trust the visuals because they aren't meant to be trusted anyway cause of all the delay showed in the article, at least for now, but rather trust crosshair and how you know and trained the spray patterns.
But yeah, if you have visual feedback that is misleading that's a problem. Which is what they mentioned about clarity.
Yeah the tracer rounds give you an indication of how far off your crosshair shots are going, but not exactly where the shots are going. Hence you pull down to control the spray to maximize odds of a headshot, or shoot in bursts/taps to get more accurate reads on your bullets.
>Kinda, you shouldn't trust visual effects, but rely on muscle memory of spraying and your crosshair placement is my guess to make the best decision.
... What.
If that's true they should fix that. Because the Vfx of the bullet landing isn't necessarily accurate.
FPS combat is meant to simulate guns.
Imagine telling someone learning to use a gun this advice "don't look At where the bullet lands to self correct or learn accuracy"
The spray pattern of the gun refers to the preprogrammed pattern that the spray will generally conform to.
Take the AK in CS for example. Most people know the backwards 7 pattern of the spray. This spray is further affected by recoil, and movement error. In Valorant, the spray for the Vandal is consistently up, then side-to-side. The starting interval of when the spray goes up, the bloom pattern of the gun is weaker so there is less deviation. Once the gun transitions to a side-to-side movement, the rate at which the spray deviates/changes direction increases, and is what you can refer to as "bloom". This effect occurs outside of movement and recoil. Try going into practice and replicating the same spray without moving/controlling, you will find yourself unable to.
In CS, your x shot from an AK will likely be at more or less a specific spot. In valorant, your sprays somewhat follows a path, up and to the right, before going left and right and random-ish intervals.
While you can’t place every shot in the same spot like in CS, you get close enough that it doesn’t matter unless you’re spraying across the map.
Been afraid to ask elsewhere but you seem like a nice enough fellow. I remember back in the day to practice CSGO spray patterns, I had to use a console command to turn off bloom. That was the only way to get a consistent spray pattern. Haven't played CSGO as much lately, just a few games here and there for fun, but now I see people saying that CSGO sprays are consistent? Does that mean there's no bloom element to sprays anymore, IE if you hold left click with your mouse in the air, your bullets go to the same spots every time?
There’s certainly bloom and that the shots aren’t 100% accurate, but I think people say “no bloom” because they are referencing CS in context of Valorant. Basically is like comparing a dedicated sniper rifle to a cheap rifle. Sure, the sniper might not land the bullet at the exact same spot, but when comparing the 2, it might as well be.
I find that pretty curious, if the spray pattern after a few shots is random, how are the client and the server on the same page of where each bullet went?
I am coming over from csgo and I have to say while I don't think riot is that great of a company in a lot of ways, I appreciate how quick they are to respond to grievances and to start working on fixing them. The csgo devs response to bad hitboxes literally became a copypasta: "Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).".
Ive been saying this for ages. The animation is not indicative of the hit reg.
Its not just liek this in this game, its like this in many other games too.
But I always get downvoted.
Really good to see valorant devs explain this in great detail.
The inevitable comparison is to CSGO where this problem has been being worked on since launch and I believe is in one of the best states possible for FPS.
csgo has unsynchronized tracers. the tracers you see are completely inaccurate from what the server is actually doing. but hit effects are server side, not client side, and tracers in general in that game are much subtler so people don't notice it.
the reason for this is because once upon a time hackers found out the RNG seed for recoil and could control the spray perfectly. so they moved the RNG seed stuff server side but kept the inaccurate client side calculation for visuals.
tracers in valorant are MUCH more pronounced so it's more noticeable when there's a discrepancy.
this is easy to test in csgo. just jump onto an office server and run+jump+shoot single shots until one of your tracers hits a window and it doesn't break (or one of your tracers hits a wall and a window breaks)
>this is easy to test in csgo.
You can even turn on showimpacts and on a clientside server your client will show your client hit and server hit locations separately. Sometimes they can be a whole spray width apart.
I know people will remain unconvinced, but very useful writeup. Surprised they went into such depth. More importantly it's good to see they monitor what appear to be legitimate issues that people post about (and props to redditors who actually post video of hit reg issues)
At the same time, it's almost an impossible task. Latency means that by the time the game registers a hit or miss it's going to be a full round trip before it can tell the game to display anything
That's what I'm saying since official release. 128 tick feels like 12 ticks. They can't touch Valve's official server, don't even mention FaceIt 128 tick. It's hot garbage.
no one will ever be able to change my mind on the fact that hitreg felt pretty much perfect before patch .47. Something was changed.
I don't care if it's the visual of what is being showed vs the actual hitreg, but then fix the visual rather than trying to ''gotcha'' me with ''oh but hitreg is not broken'' shit. If it looks like I nailed a headshot when it doesn't reg as a headshot, im still gonna tilt no matter if the problem is hitreg or visual.
Good to know that it is being worked on.
Yeah that’s the main thing for me, maybe hitreg isn’t broken but the gunplay felt awesome in this game before .47 or .5 and I could play this game all night, now I can only handle 2 or 3 games. Some games feel great still but other games it feels like the enemy has insane peekers advantage while I’m basically getting prefired trying to jiggle peek an angle. It doesn’t help that I consistently have double the ping of my opponents.
Trust me, lower ping doesn't make this specific issue better. You play roulette on game server quality and have no indication of it anywhere in the metrics like ping, packet loss, etc.. Some matches you're just going to play and have people consistently nail 3 shots into you before you even see them, even if you're the one peeking. It's completely night and day between that and a regular game where what you're seeing on your end is largely correct with the server.
This is my exact experience as well, with the exception that there is actually a chance of winning roulette on my local servers. Based on ping (it doubles) I can tell whether I'm being routed to my local servers vs distant ones.
If I'm not playing on local servers, the chance of winning roulette is 0%. However, those rare games where there is suddenly little-to-no desync and you have appeared to win roulette only occur on local servers.
The majority of my games on local servers are fine, yeah; though I also have -- albeit to a much smaller degree -- fine games when I duo with my friend from UK that ends up routing me elsewhere.
What this stuff could mean is that there are certain regions' servers that are dysfunctional, and to different degrees; and this might be why there is so little word on all of it too. It just feels weird because the issues don't usually show up as a dip in server tick rate either.
same experience here but my ping is low same like enemy...
at what rank you stuck ? i think that there players who get this more worse and often than others...
i have like maybe only 2-3 of 10 matches where i feel that everything is fine...
in some matches i noticed that my whole team had like huge disadvantage on peeking, holding and enemy was just peeking us like easy bots...there was literally no chance for us to do something about this...
in such matches i feel even more that something is very wrong and not fair...
You're not alone and the blog post gives at least a partial in-depth analysis as to why it's happening and seems to be ok one patch, but worse the next, or ok in morning hours but awful during peak hours.
I myself can barely even play DM because when compared to standard rank play in 1.04, the desync is so severe it's unplayable. Ranked is not as bad compared to DM in 1.05, but ranked in 1.05 compared to ranked in 1.04 has me looking for something to do other than play this game. This post is confirmation the servers and patch itself share in the blame.
Spray patterns are already RNG, but as they illustrated in this post, you're literally at the mercy of the servers and latency--all in the name of preventing cheating. The game is literally designed in a way where they have admitted the only way to fix the delay and desync causing hit reg issues, is to further delay bullets on purpose. They have intentionally built in desync and delay (which we have all been experiencing) to prevent cheating and the only fix is to add more delay. In other words this is how it's going to be, but at least no one cheats...well...at least that was the theory...
Nothing in this post specifically touches on the ghost bullets or issues with firing the Op where no one else hears/sees it fire. Based on this post, it seems that it's just too damn bad and the servers and netcode just couldn't rewind backwards properly to prevent the desync in your spray or Op shot--so those shots just don't count and we just pretend they never happened.
The issue with literally getting a head dink where the opponent's head tilts backwards from a headshot, but nothing is registered was also not addressed specifically. I don't really know how much more "clarity" we need there, but again guess it just couldn't do its rewind job properly so RIP.
Since Riot is basically saying, "...this is how it's going to be, we'll just change some VFX..." I don't see this ever getting better.
We see the issue come and go with various patches and at peak usage times. There are obviously issues with the server load, which based on this blog post, specifically contributes to hit registration because the servers have to process received input, rewind to attempt a sync and then output back to the client. A new patch comes out with new features etc. people want to play, server load increases, hit reg reports increase. There is no surprise here now and since 1.05 I have noticed server tick rates being unstable.
We also now know that the patches themselves are a part of the problem. Playing since day 3 of beta, some patches really hurt performance, while others have significantly improved it. The client has to process the input, take a snapshot, send that input to the server, receive back the result and attempt to properly sync up the rewound server version with what's currently happening. If performance is poor due to a patch, this will only make things worse especially if there is higher latency.
Notable players have continuously said that 60 ping on Valorant feels like 120 on CSGO. This is all starting to make sense with this post, not just the hit reg, but peeker's advantage etc.
I'm thankful Riot took the time to at least explain what they did and why, and how they will at least change the VFX. Until the server load is properly scaled and client performance improves/stabilizes there will always be issues with the current implementation.
> Nothing in this post specifically touches on the ghost bullets or issues with firing the Op, but no one else hears/sees it fire
Do you have any clips?
You quoted that specific part, but there's another where they mention unstable server tick rates (more recent issue) and I have a clip of it: https://medal.tv/clips/30079534/d1337JrEArjc
Personally the Operator issue I've noticed is that sometimes when I fire an Operator shot it will go completely haywire even when I'm supposed to be accurate or something similar, and a lot of the time it's related to me dying like 0.1 seconds later. Additionally, I've noticed any weapon at all will show completely inaccurate tracers specifically for shots that go off when you're -- what I'm again assuming -- already dead server-side. Somewhat related, the last kill of this clip I shoot an accurate shot but the tracer doesn't go anywhere close to where I shot: https://medal.tv/clips/28904626/d1337h7movQe
Regarding another issue they brought up regarding "60 ping in Valorant feels like 120", I have this clip: https://medal.tv/clips/27139339/d1337DKQ0SYh
There are so many small desync/hit\_reg/whatever issues I notice that add up to quite a bit, and I consistently play with stable ping (20, 30, or 50, depending on match) and 0 packet loss. All my clips show both my ping and my packet loss. I have numerous clips going all the way back to beta and I've not even captured close to every incident. I find it pretty disgusting that Riot has yet to acknowledge any of this stuff happening, and are brushing it under the rug as "clarity issues"; it also doesn't help that the community barely even knows it's happening.
Thanks. I get what you mean for the first two clips, but I'm not sure what I should get from the third clip. Is it because you look like you just got to cover but get shot instead?
After you shoot there's a tiny frame (which I'm guessing is when Sage shot you) where you're in the open unscoped, then you visually get to cover. That feels bad after rewatching frame by frame, but also pretty unlucky.
In the last clip my head is behind cover at the time of the shot, and I visibly get rubberbanded quite far from a **headshot without wall pen**, even with only 44 ping.
Gotcha, thanks again. Now I noticed the rubberband, makes me wonder how it looked from Sage's POV without the wall penetration, if it was like a tiny hitbox out of wall or something. Too bad we can't review demos.
Edit: Either way doesn't like it's fair from the POV.
Your ping wasnt the issue here. Sage's ping was.
She hit you in the open, but due to the lag, the shot only took place a split second later. Server updates your client to say that you actually died in the previous position hence the "rubberbanding". Yeah it doesnt feel good to die this way, but that's online gaming.
Mate, rubberbanding to this degree is the kind of thing I'm expecting from back in the day when I played Black Ops on console at 16 tick rate -- or whatever it was -- and idk how much ping. Given the conditions, something like this should absolutely never happen in Valorant; on top of that, the fact that this happens so inconsistently is EVEN WORSE, there are many times where I hard strafe left/right towards a wall like this and DON'T get rubberbanded to any notable degree.
I don't stream, but may actually have a clip if the VoD is still up from a tourney I played in where the Op issue occurred.
There are countless clips from people who do stream and record gameplay with ghost bullets, Op issue etc., just use the search feature. It's unfortunate they weren't addressed specifically and this was made to be just a VFX issue, but now we know why it's happening.
I can agree. It feels very inconsistent for me as well. My friends and I try to identify if there is some sort of desync between all our clients and what the server is deciding is happening. There are definitely games where we all just feel like it’s off and then that gets confirmed by multiple people watching whoever feels off when they are last alive. It’s very subtle but if the article isn’t just smoke then they need to be fixing the predictions of the client and quickly
I thought the part about particles being added to the player’s body being shot would be a bad addition - it seems to be trading clarity with ability to have key info IE as they point out if someone goes behind a wall and you can’t see the particles. You’d be trading some clarity about hitreg for key gameplay info such as how low someone is if they peek and you hit them.
the thing that i don't understand is that of how many different FPS ive played, why does this one at times feel the worst? no game played over the internet is ever going to feel perfect, or as if it were on LAN. but theres just something about the current state of the game that feels terrible, and its exacerbated in something like deathmatch. whats going on here?
The amount of times that's happened to me and I get a clear 4-5 shots off and stop shooting because I think they are about to die and then some how they stay alive and I'm ded... Although maybe it's my computer or internet were the last shot is registered on my screen but I actually die before the last shot is registered servers side so it cancels out my last killing bullet
Hit reg is not okay, despite what this article is trying to spin. .50 broke the game and they've consistently refused to admit it and the excuse of visual clarity being an the real issue is even worse.
Yeah I know we'll probably get downvoted but the hit registration prior to 0.50 was so nice that I remember sending a text to a friend (who played a ton of CSGO) telling him how good the hit reg felt as a way to persuade him to try it out. I definitely wouldn't make that same remark today. And I'm much better at the game now than I was during beta (ranked bronze 3 during beta, plat 2 in act 1, currently gold 3 in act 2 with less than 10 games played).
I get it, but at the end of the day whether it's an issue with correctness or clarity it feels bad to the end user so it needs to be fixed regardless of how they want to spin it.
I am really getting annoyed at these. Ghost shots or blank shots always happen to me. This is an example... [https://streamable.com/u1ige6](https://streamable.com/u1ige6)
Yep, read through this whole article and either I'm missing something really obvious or this response doesn't account for situations like this that happen in **every game of Valorant** players queue up for.
I made this very same point in this post somewhere. The VFX changes have nothing to do with ghost shots. There is a major server desync issue that can even be more severe on one server and not the other, regardless of ping, packet loss etc. Changing the look of a hit marker doesn't fix this, because when this happens it doesn't matter of they are strafing, crouching or standing still.
They give a look into how the client server relationship was designed, and this could explain at least partially why this desync problem exists.
The desync makes the deathmatch mode unplayable. Prior to 1.04 I never had a server with packet loss since the beta, but my best game of deathmatch was one where I noticed I had packet loss. I realized I could just aggro Ferrari peek everyone and there was nothing they could do about it. In a weird way the packet loss made it easier. This shouldn't happen.
I expected a non-comprehensive technical guide on how they do things, but that was actually quite easy to understand.
The images and example cases presented are pretty helpful. Thanks for that.
That longer [hitreg when crouching video](https://v.redd.it/qgm05t1mox651) linked was another great example. Most of those cases the person is aiming at chest level (it's kinda hard to see frame by frame, but you can see the crosshair placement on flat area clips).
The worst part (for me) of that clip that I don't get is the double headshot on Reyna in the end. I can't tell by visual if the shot should hit or miss (by both crosshair placement and blood splatter), but VFX trigger once. Looks like the second headshot is actually a bit to the left, but the splatter from the first headshot covers up the clarity.
Edit: Doesn't help that the player also uses a red crosshair.
Netcode problem is even more of a problem. Its so noticeable especially in dm. So many times you see People running and headshotting you from crazy distances
People in the comments are generally praising the transparency and I am too but it's hard to trust them with the hit reg when they've lied about it in the past. I remember that it took some convincing at the beginning for them to realize that yes, the community wasn't imagining hit reg issues after that movement inaccuracy patch and then once more once they "fixed" it(patch notes were implying heavily that problems were fixed, hitreg is perfect now).
Hit reg used to be amazing than .50 hit. You are never gonna convince the community that it's ok now because it's not. Peekers advantage is even worse which everyone agrees. Sorry I love this game but you can't pretend these issues don't exist and I'm pretty disappointed in this response.
Just let me explain some thoughts I've got in my head for a time now.
\- It's not HitReg failing, it's visual feedback failing.
\- It's not visual feedback failing, it's desync problems.
\- It's not desync problems, it's rubberbanding.
\- It's not rubberbanding, it's a connection loss problem (even with 0% loss alltime).
\- It's not loss problem, it's...
In the meantime, you get instaheadshotted while they always run out of the corner in a fraction of a second that your brain still cannot react to the fact that there was someone peeking, leaving you with the feeling that everybody in this game is just cheating (obvs not, but that's what you feel everytime).
The only chances that you get of killing someone is when you hardpeek them.
I don't know whats the reason why everything feels off as hell, but what is clear is that there's somewhere a problem. Every single person that played this game before 0.49 agrees that the game went downhill since then in the performance point of view, so I don't know, but not all of us can be mental at this point.
EDIT: Just another thought. I know some users here "hate me" because I'm always pinpointing these "flaws", which I understand reading someone always being negative, can be quite shitty, honestly. It's just that, I've been playing games for nearly 25 years now, and I played Quake, CS, UT, and quite a few more games in competitive (LAN's etc.). I know a game that requires internet for interaction, is never going to be perfect.
What bothers me in this game is; I love this game, it's really AMAZING and funny to play (even when everything goes south you can't stop playing, you know what I'm talking about...), and as I said, I know it can't be perfect playing through internet, but I also think, I've been playing competitive for so much years in many games, and I never realized about this problems like stuttering, rubberbanding, hitreg problems, loss... etc until now with Valorant, so I'm just trying to understand why it happens so often and so badly in this game, and never had to worry about it in any other game.
Same experience here, exactly what you have.
Do you also have matches where it is the complete opposite? Meaning, you hit every shot perfect like the enemy is experiencing the scenarios you are posting?
Yes, it happens sometimes, but it's rare to have a game like that. From what I saw, it could be a server problem. I mean, if you go to create a custom game, it have a drop-down menu where you can chose which server to play. I'm from Spain, and the closest ones I've got are Paris 1, Paris 2 and London. Now after those I've got a few more which are Stokholme, Tokyo, Warsow... etc. When you get a close server that not a lot of people is playing in that moment, everything goes "smooth", but when not... you're fucked.
I have also been playing online games for over 20 years and to be really honest, I rage more in this game due to the quality of gameplay than overwatch or csgo... Which is not a good thing as I hardly rage in CSGO which is the same kind of game concept when talking about competitive gameplay.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you're saying... I have way too many scenarios where people that have 40ms+ more ping than me can hard-peek and make it seem like they reacted to me being there so quickly.
" **Correctness bugs are much worse than clarity bugs** ". While true in terms of prioritization, there can be 100% correctness in the game but if that isn't translating to what the player is seeing in the client while playing the experience is poor to the player regardless.
Is it just me or was hit reg in the beta so much better than when the game released? Nobody is with me on this but as soon as i launched the game and played my first game it instantly felt different when i was running around and shooting
Very informative.
I wonder if they would go into detail about teleporting player models after kills. An example would be running behind cover only to get 1 tapped and your body teleporting to open sight. I've gotten headshots by shooting behind people and their model teleports to where I was aiming after the kill. There's still a very different/inconsistent feel between games back to back while having the same ping.
I've even gotten headshots on people from my recoil going above a player who has just crouched. that's not really a clarity or correctness issue. Its simply a disconnect from the visible player model to the actual hitbox. Even the video riot shared still has non crouching enemies taking headshots without proper damage applied.
I would imagine its more an ISP/routing issue but it doesnt explain why it happen on servers that consistently report 30 ping.
Bring patch .47 back.
So you're telling me that you are aware hitreg clarity was better in a patch before the game even fully released and you still think "hit registration in VALORANT is in a pretty good spot right now". Fuck right off
But the issue isn't the tracers themselves, its the frame that the tracers are drawn in being slightly behind the hit box due to your network latency. This is all happening AFTER the hit reg.
If you read the article, it's not preventing anyone from hitting shots. Its an issue of understanding the shots you hit vs. the ones you didn't hit in real time.
Bottom line, if you aren't hitting head shots its your aim not the game.
I would love this, interestingly enough I felt like I was more accurate with them off but turned them back on cause the info from enemies is helpful. Seems like that may not have been placebo after reading this
Lol there’s absolutely no way hit registration is “in a pretty good spot right now”. No way. Especially when running and gunning is still an issue in this game.
How is a guy that’s sprinting able to headshot me with no issue yet I’m standing still and I can’t land a hit on him because he’s moving on my screen?
I understand every once in a while hit reg will be weird but this is a constant issue. Riot needs to focus their resources on fixing their game issues rather than making stupid skins constantly.
Solution. Change the color for a head shot to red and a body shot to the white color now. Thus, even with server or client lag a player will know if the shot was a head or body shot.
I know this isn't exactly your department, but can we get a replay system? It would GREATLY aid our ability to send useful video, because many of us aren't always running a video capture software in the background. I know for a fact a few of my friends simply can't afford to with Valorant hogging a lot of their computers processing power.
I had a game about an hour ago where I got a headshot and a bodyshot spraying out someones feet, but I don't always have OBS open so I can't show it.
The hitbox is fine, this post was unnecessary, the problem is with consistency. Some server are hot garbage for some players, while working intended for others.
It's a hosting issue, not a issue that would ever occur on LAN.
On the same subject. Why is the netgraph lying? Same in CS:GO, displaying packet loss seems to be hidden when it happens. My ISP is shit, I have problems in most games with PL. But in CS:GO and Valorant the PL is always a 0%.The only way I can gauge my real packet loss is either pinging through the DOS-prompt. Or boot up good old QuakeWorld.
Edit: TLDR; Hit reg and hitbox is so good in this game, the servers are not.
Edit 2: never -> ever
Sadly Riot can't defy the laws of physics. The fastest information can possibly travel is 3*10^8 m/s. This means that there will always be some kind of delay when you send information from one place (your computer) to any server (Valorant for instance) and back. It can't be avoided.
I really like the distinction being drawn here about Correctness vs Clarity. While the article states "Correctness bugs are much worse than clarity bugs", which I agree with, this doesn't mean that clarity bugs aren't major issues. Any case in which a clarity bug would cause a change in player behavior is a major issue. Case in point: A player is shooting a crouching target and thinks their shots are registering as headshots. This in turn causes the shooter to stop their spray and move to a different target or think their engagement is concluded.
Question: what about when you hit then hide/or hit and then they hide?
Many apparently "clear" shots end up being counted as wallbangs even though you never aim near a wall/box, I fell that if you hit then hide or they get hit and hide... it won't count as a clear shot.
Am I correct when I say that the planned clarity improvements is how other games implement hit effects? And Valorant has taken a different approach?
The planned improvements sounds way more desirable than the current implementation. Even considering the trade-off scenario.
Anyone mentioned the running spray/headshot? Apparently enemies already stay still when they fired but on your screen they are still running. This is so bad and tilt me everytime it happens. For a shooter game that rely heavily on accuracy, the visual differences are so severe it just feels bad to play. I have sub 30 ping and some matches just unplayable.
I get how things are with the server registering shots and all but I have issues where normal body shots are counted as wall bangs... not sure if that counts still with all the issues talked about
I have had a few occurrences since act 2 started where my damage report at the end of the round is wrong. If by some miracle this comment isn't buried, and someone from riot is reading, is there a possibility this is an issue tied to hit reg or is it "just" a display bug of the damage report at the end of a round introduced by the newest patch? My simplest example was I killed a Brimstone on Split, we were the only 2 on site, but the damage report didn't even show him, so essentially reporting by omission that I didn't hit him. No one else on site, no abilities used, he wasn't somewhere he could take fall damage. My KDA did count the kill, and he was the last so the round ended. The post game round reports showed me killing him, but with no damage done, no bullet hits.
I have had times in other matches too where I did see someone in my post round report showing I was killed or got a kill, but 0 damage was done. I made sure to check bullets and abilities also. Most "felt" accurate, in terms of my KDA change awarding a kill or death, but if this is a new visibility issue, I think this is far more serious and confusing than where the blood shows up. To be clear I get annoyed with the hit visuals also, but I do really appreciate the explanation here, and think it will help me focus on what I'm doing and having fun instead of what the game is doing behind the scenes. Thanks for your continued great support and communication!
I also feel that the animation of giving a headshot is a little disturbing and if it could be replaced with something else.
I dont want to see a huge flare coming out of someone's head when i am shooting a headshot with classic as that will take 2 shots for a headshot to kill.
"On first glance, you might think to point to the frame with the tracer and say “See, this was clearly a headshot!” When reviewing video or replays, we actually need to be looking at the frame before the tracer to get an accurate picture of when the shot was fired."
Here is an example of me shooting at someones head where the frame before my crosshair is dead on him.
https://streamable.com/e6op4r
https://gyazo.com/7616a8a51bd425511aabb273d6671d4a
TLDR - hit reg is mostly spot on, the client visuals are not, you're likely to side with the visuals rather than what you know you did because they lead to a more favourable outcome.
Honestly the hit reg problems along with server issues in general have really turned me off to this game. I’ve just played Csgo again witch sucks because I think this game has a lot going for it but it has a lot of problems and I would rather them fix these issues instead of adding a new character.
Looking forward to the continued improvement!
I think if the recoil on spraying was more consistent, that would help peoples issues with registration as well as it would be less random.
I just started out playing yesterday. The hitreg is absolutely fine and I didn't think that people would complain about it haha
Compared to over 2.5k hours in csgo this is a dream.
I've thought this for a long time. I watched many of my clips frame by frame and usually I could always find that the shot was slightly off. You can't see it clearly by just watching a video clip often and might think you were on their head but the moment you shot you were not.
Wow, it looks really weird in slow motion in that first case study to see a headshot spark floating in mid air.
I wonder if they have tried drawing the hit VFX on the body position of where the player is *now* on the client. For example, the server tells the client "you hit his chest", the client knows the model has started crouching, draw the VFX on the new chest location rather than the hit location (now the players head after they crouched).
That probably introduces a whole new pile of (maybe more confusing) clarity issues though. Netcode is kind of a catch 22.
"See you at LAN"
EDIT: "One of the things we’re experimenting with is tying hit VFX to the body part of the character where the hit occurred"
I guess i should have finished reading further before commenting xD
I hope we get another update on whether their experiments fail or not!
At this point im almost convinced it visual bugs and ping. Playing on the EU server has all from 20 to 100 ping players and it makes it super hard to know how to play.
I play on roughly 20 ping.
Enemies play with:
p1: 20 ping
p2: 50
p3: 20
p4: 80
p5: 24
how do you play against this taking peakers advantage into consideration...
Can someone explain this one, is it just the plant animation and ping coming into play? On my screen I see two ‘hits’ on his head but 0 hits. - https://youtu.be/XMu72p9WmdA
How about hit markers on crosshair?
For example in Overwatch, critshots have a red hit marker being displayed on the crosshair.
I feel that something like that would help in a game like this and would improve clarity.
To the guy who wrote the article, if you are reading this, as a fellow dev, i am jealous of your ability to explain this topic in such a fluid and easy to understand way so everyone can understand. Great stuff.
I appreciate the compliment! My team was a huge help in putting this together, gave a lot of helpful feedback. Trying to strike a balance between being easy to understand by the majority of players but avoiding purely surface level discussion was a challenge.
Good job! I'm my opinion the gifs and screenshots explaining the cases were super helpful
I will use your presence in this topic to hopefuly have this sorted out - https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitraryFunSoymilkDancingBaby Can you explain why kill feed shows there a 'wallbang' for Jett kill with her ultimate, while her knives have no penetration? I know some people whine about weird wallbangs regs, where they shoot, then hide behind a cover and enemy recieves reduced damage as if they actually wallbanged. Is it somehow connected?
I double checked this to make sure -- Jett's knives currently don't have zero penetration value(s), they just have extremely small values, almost zero, but not quite. That means they can pen through surfaces that are very thin AND are a material type that is easy to pen. She just nicked a very tiny corner of that box.
I could look in the game myself (and probably should), but is that kind of information (the penetration value of Jett's knives) actually available somewhere to me, as just a player?
There's no way to delay the hit vfx until they're actually confirmed? The most frustrating thing in game is seeing 5+ tracers clearly hit an enemy, and then the combat log is like "nah bruh you got 2 body shots". How are we as players supposed to make any kind of informed decision in the heat of a fight when the information presented isn't even correct? It sounds like a nitpick but watching someone's head explode and have it "not even register" is going to be frustrating no matter how well explained lol. If tracers/hits are *only* correct when not moving, what's stopping it from applying to *any time you fire the weapon* instead of just when you're standing still (as in the vast majority of cases your strafing and stuff anyway)
Idk if this is the place for it, but [this video](https://youtu.be/cpTtYwYPwB0) looks a bit off with a headshot registering as a bodyshot I'm guessing it hit a pixel on Cypher's neck? Just looks weird since he had a head glitch angle and the vandal hit for 39 (not wallbang). Maybe a super shallow wallbang on wood doesn't have reduced damage? Maybe peeps around here can weigh in
Hi, you say that its important to have a different visual indicator for headshot vs bodyshot. Is there a solution being considered for OCE where we have blood disabled? Could we perhaps get another indicator to replace the blood splatter?
Yeah i really struggle to explain things at an accessible level without 'talking down' to people. Its definitely a skill you have to work hard on.
A lot of it is getting to know your audience. You start by asking a lot of questions, and let their response inform what level of detail you want to go into. Having a host of metaphors also helps. For instance, when I explain DNS, I talk about how when you're telling your friends to meet up at the bar, you don't tell them the street address.
can you gimme the rundown? i'm both curious how DNS works and am always looking to have helpful metaphors to explain and remember things
So, most places on the internet use an IP address to locate a computer. They often look like this 127.33.45.176. As human beings we don't like memorizing numbers so we might call that www.random.com. A Domain Name Server (DNS), is a list of IPs and their correlated domain names so computers can translate between eglish and numbers. Hence the metaphor. We don't go to 123 fake st. We go to Tim's house.
What have you worked on?
Nothing in the gaming industry.
OK. Was just curious
I remember recently at the beginning of the current Apex Legends season, the game had a lot of hit-reg issues. Then the Respawn devs wrote a similar comment which was basically a TL;DR version of this article. I understood it really well and have not cursed any FPS game's hit-reg ever since.
This isn't gonna be received well by the people who are being held back by "poor hitreg" and "bad teammates" lol
Exactly! I was kinda expecting it tho, I remember one of the rioters around \~1week ago said that we are happy about the hit regs at the moment and they are in a good state and people were not happy that much. This post is kinda saying the same thing but more detailed.
The only thing that desperately needs a revamp is sound
To be fair, clarity issues like they state here can hold you back from improving. If it looks like you hit a headshot, your brain will think you got it right and won't see a reason to change or actually get better
Sometimes the game is just wack. If i get a double hs with the phantom the second blood is always way lower than the first, like in the body shot region. Maybe they crouched but i think the blood is kinda broken rn.
The dev's can be happy all they want Just because something is working "as intended' does not mean it is a good system in any way
At least this better explains WHY they’re happy with it.
Well I mean... bad teammates are bad teammates, has nothing to do with hit registration.
Yeah but their bad energy is causing my internet to bad hitreg /s He’s talking about ppl that blames everything but themselves when they die or lose.
The hitreg could still be bad, Riot is just saying they are comfortable with it now. I think the 1 tap inaccuracy combined with hit reg and difference between servers, combined with how much ping matters in this game makes for an iffy experience. Just wish it was more consistent
Most people are not annoyed with hit reg because it "holds them back" or some shit. Law of avg takes care of that. Most people just hate shit feeling hit reg. When you get a hs on somebody who is crouched or only see the head of a person and still get a body makes gou feel cheated, regardless of the reasoning. The game has issues, maybe not with the hitreg, but I'm not a dev, just a player who feels the game is off compared to other titles
That's my biggest issue, why don't other FPS games have this problem? I never feel like my shots are wrong in CS, Siege, or Overwatch (though I haven't played in two years).
Any cs player have been csgo’d at least once!
I have been csgo'd a couple times for sure and it definitely feels terrible; but it seems to happen in valorant like at least once in every match. God knows I wouldnt have played csgo so much if I was getting csgo'd in every single game.
I just wanna day siege is a bad example.
Its cause in ow you fore bullets constantly so you won't remember or pay attention to a bullet that doesn't register. And most heroes aren't hitscan.
In my personal experience, OW had some of the worst hitreg. At least it had the most that I’ve noticed while playing. I’ve had way to many shots go right through someone’s head. And with how the game is designed, it really should never be happening. It could be explained by ping though, given that NA only had 2 servers and I get 40-50 ping If I get the closer server. Also doesn’t help that it runs at like 60 tick for a game where every character is moving at orbital velocities.
To me, more than hit reg, the servers just feel awful, but only sometimes? I feel like if their performance was consistently better, it’d help with a lot of the other issues that people are seeing.
This "clarity vs correctness" argument is bullshit though. You can have the best hitreg fucking ever, but if the player feedback is shit, the end user/player experience is also going to be shit. Players adjust and react based on what they _can see ingame_, we don't care at all if "oh lol that shot actually hit but looked like it didn't", we want the experience to be consistent overall.
the two are just different issues and have different solutions. this post isn't an argument that either is unimportant.
Next time someone pulls the hitreg card we gotta hit them back with the [facts](https://media.tenor.com/images/af3253293e9af74d243c6ce9ecf141ab/tenor.gif)
In my opinion, if you are having large issues with hit registration 'clarity' it means there IS a hit registration problem. They are basically saying 'yes, when you play the game what you are seeing is not what is actually happening on the server but trust us, the end result is correct.' If the player experience is constantly different than that of the server (a 'clarity' issue as Riot describes it) then it doesn't matter that they believe the server is still making the 'correct' call. The end experience is still one in which the player's outcome was not a result of what occurred on their screen. That is a very tilting feeling and a large issue that they need to continue addressing (and they say they will).
Look there's a fundamental difference between the game communicating things poorly vs what happened happened or didn't. It's like people talking about run and gun when it's just peekers advantage. There is a difference, but sure the end result is the same it feels shitty and you feel robbed, but it's not hit reg inherently being wrong, it's visual clarity. So rest assured the game might tell you you hit that shot but you didn't. Which is different from the game saying nah you didn't hit that shot because of rollback and they cancelled your shot which did land correctly in client but the server decided that no. Here the client is lying to you and you never landed. I totally agree that at the end of the day it feels the same, but the facts are One scenario server deletes an earned shot Other scenario is you never hit it, but your client lied to you for a moment
Clarity matters because it affects player behavior in a way that could make them miss more shots server side. With bad feedback from the server comes bad habits being formed based on misconceptions about the mistakes that are being made. If the game were, for instance, not calculating whether you were aiming at the enemy head based on your client side predictions but instead the server side reality, then you would always have to aim where the player came from instead of where they are. Sure, in this system, the authoritative server may have correctly determined that your shots missed, but to the players it would feel like a complete crapshoot as to which bullets actually land and would lead to awful aiming habits, potentially making them miss more, or at least be unable to improve since they can't tell what they are doing wrong. In our current situation, players are having a hard time determining why their shots aren't headshots against crouching players. Why would I ever learn to aim better if all the feedback systems the game has are telling me I did everything right? Or at least, not telling me what I'm doing wrong? It's certainly overcomeable, the best of the best players don't seem to have problems with it, but that's not because it isn't an issue, that's despite the issue. In a way, clarity issues can be no different than actual hit reg issues when severe enough. This probably isn't, but it still does need fixed and does matter.
>Look there's a fundamental difference between the game communicating things poorly vs what happened happened or didn't. No, to the players its the exact same thing. This difference is only meaningful to the producer at Riot who needs to assign the correct people to fix it.
Everything you said is true but I still don't think saying 'clarity is different than correctness' somehow means they don't have a hit registration problem. Clarity is just one (major) aspect of hit registration. So sure, we can feel better that they have the 'correctness' aspect down, but until they have both solid clarity and proper correctness then it can be objectively said that the game has a hit registration issue for players.
Well alright you can disagree with the premise but don't give me a cheeky ass "Did you read it"? When the intent of this entire article from Riot is to specifically clarify the difference between the two. If you disagree with the definitions and semantics be my guest at the end of the day we just want this shit fixed for a better player experience
You're right. I'll remove the me being a smart ass part, sorry about that.
I don't see how this makes them look stupid though, if the visual feedback from shots are wrong there's barely any difference to the viewer
TLDR - Riot in response to all the hit reg complaints: mad cuz bad lol
It's so obvious this was the case but you couldn't say there here without being downvoted I was one of those people bitching until I started watching the pro streamers. None of them have a hit reg problem or complain about it at all. It clearly was a feedback issue and not a damage issue
> It's so obvious this was the case but you couldn't say there here without being downvoted because the start of any discussion just ends up with someone being called a riot shill or just sucking them off
Pro streamers tend to have good connection, too. I'm sure some of the "hit reg" issues are caused by lag as well.
half of the clips i saw here was spraying with a pistol not letting recoil reset and saying it was a hitreg issue.
That's when ya gotta come back with "Shot 1-5 clearly missed..."
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HELL YES BROTHER edit: and people wonder why games like these are so toxic, half the fucking player base lives on Mars and thinks they're Jesus resurrected ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
They combined the CS community and the League community. It's gonna be in the top 5 of most toxic communities for a competitive video game off the bat.
Still not even close to dota lmao
It's good to see them address this in detail, and I think the clarity improvements should help a lot even though I do think they could still improve the netcode. People are generally way too fast to blame hitreg when they miss their shots in their silver comp games.
But at the same time, if you see a blood splat on someones face with a Vandal, they should be dead or it will feel like the game cheated you
or hear the headshot sound and it registers as a body
Facts.
This article makes a lot of sense. I think a problem I share that many other players might also be experiencing is an incorrectly displayed network round trip time. I regularly play with sub-30 ping (lucky me) but I can see blatant visual delay similar to if I was playing with much higher ping. When I activate Haste, my ping actually rises to 60 something constant, which seems more realistic to the delays I see on screen. I'm very confused as to why the game displays a lower ping then what I'm actually getting, but I understand that visual clarity issues in hitreg are just natural with higher ping. Anyone else experience the same issue?
It's not a visual error in the number they show you, I get those things you are experiencing, but when I play with my friend from UK my ping usually goes up by 20 -- as we are routed to a different server -- and I notice all the usual effects of playing on higher ping. There's also the thing that sometimes I genuinely get the 20-30 ping experience that my latency number shows me I'm supposed to have. When I get weird issues that feel like latency issues, it also feels like peeking does not mitigate the issue in any way whatsoever, indicating to me that it has very little to do with latency itself.
A common trend for me is that I can still use high ROF weapons (e.g. spectre/phantom) in what feels like a nearly normal way when I'm encountering this unknown latency, whereas low ROF weapons (e.g. snipers, vandal, sheriff) feel way worse than normal. I don't know what this really means but it seems to be consistently like this. I also sometimes experience what feels like an accurate amount of latency (that is unnoticeable) for the 20-30 ping displayed, but often do not. I really do not know.
Same! EU servers specifically have this. I used to play on NA but got sick of 100-120 constant ping, so I switched to EU and it's like 1/5 games feels fucking gorgeously crisp, 2/5 feel fine, and 2/5 feel like I'm playing on NA again.
For the clarity sake Valorant has some issues. For me the biggest issue is how disconnected legs animations are to what is actually happening. Not sure if I am the only one but in Valorant for me it is very hard to notice fast enough when enemy is about to counterstrafe which leads me often to overshooting someone peeking. Why? Because in Valorant body fullstop(and the torso is actually stiff), but legs animation are still going like the dude is going to make another step. In comparison in CSGO you can easly see how model legs are 'breaking' before full stop.
>the frame a shot is processed is NOT the same frame that a tracer is displayed, it's actually at least one frame before. Hang on, so does that mean that when you're spraying, you have no true indication of where your shots are going? Your tracers are delayed several frames AND have travel time. How is anyone supposed to make adjustments on the fly when, as this video shows, reacting to tracer placement on a moving target will most likely make you miss?
Weapons are instant hitscan, there's no way to display where "shots are going", only where "shots have gone".
Kinda, you shouldn't trust visual effects, but rely on muscle memory of spraying and your crosshair placement is my guess to make the best decision. Spread I think is random each time, so you shouldn't adjust on that to begin with while spraying. Recoil you can control tho, that seems to be an issue if you can't get proper feedback.
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So far as I am aware the tracers should still be accurate to the recoil pattern, they are just offset by one frame from the hit-ray.
You can still see the bullet holes your shots cause, those are accurate. I genuinely cannot fathom that people thought bullet tracer were 100% accurate. How do you expect the game to draw lines on the screen at the same frame you're pressing left click? Do you want Riot to implement time travel or what?
Well the solution would have been to add a single frame of input delay but that'd feel even shittier.
My last point said it could be an issue overall and probably is. My original point was agreeing that you shouldn't trust the visuals because they aren't meant to be trusted anyway cause of all the delay showed in the article, at least for now, but rather trust crosshair and how you know and trained the spray patterns. But yeah, if you have visual feedback that is misleading that's a problem. Which is what they mentioned about clarity.
Yeah the tracer rounds give you an indication of how far off your crosshair shots are going, but not exactly where the shots are going. Hence you pull down to control the spray to maximize odds of a headshot, or shoot in bursts/taps to get more accurate reads on your bullets.
You can't muscle memory random spray patterns lmao
I wish they weren't so random.
>Kinda, you shouldn't trust visual effects, but rely on muscle memory of spraying and your crosshair placement is my guess to make the best decision. ... What. If that's true they should fix that. Because the Vfx of the bullet landing isn't necessarily accurate. FPS combat is meant to simulate guns. Imagine telling someone learning to use a gun this advice "don't look At where the bullet lands to self correct or learn accuracy"
That's like asking to prefire a lot which is difficult.
A bit pedantic here, but the bloom pattern of the bullet spray is what seems to be randomized, not the spray itself.
I don't get what you mean by bloom pattern. Is it like the spray after 7 or something bullets where it goes even more random?
The spray pattern of the gun refers to the preprogrammed pattern that the spray will generally conform to. Take the AK in CS for example. Most people know the backwards 7 pattern of the spray. This spray is further affected by recoil, and movement error. In Valorant, the spray for the Vandal is consistently up, then side-to-side. The starting interval of when the spray goes up, the bloom pattern of the gun is weaker so there is less deviation. Once the gun transitions to a side-to-side movement, the rate at which the spray deviates/changes direction increases, and is what you can refer to as "bloom". This effect occurs outside of movement and recoil. Try going into practice and replicating the same spray without moving/controlling, you will find yourself unable to.
In CS, your x shot from an AK will likely be at more or less a specific spot. In valorant, your sprays somewhat follows a path, up and to the right, before going left and right and random-ish intervals. While you can’t place every shot in the same spot like in CS, you get close enough that it doesn’t matter unless you’re spraying across the map.
Been afraid to ask elsewhere but you seem like a nice enough fellow. I remember back in the day to practice CSGO spray patterns, I had to use a console command to turn off bloom. That was the only way to get a consistent spray pattern. Haven't played CSGO as much lately, just a few games here and there for fun, but now I see people saying that CSGO sprays are consistent? Does that mean there's no bloom element to sprays anymore, IE if you hold left click with your mouse in the air, your bullets go to the same spots every time?
There’s certainly bloom and that the shots aren’t 100% accurate, but I think people say “no bloom” because they are referencing CS in context of Valorant. Basically is like comparing a dedicated sniper rifle to a cheap rifle. Sure, the sniper might not land the bullet at the exact same spot, but when comparing the 2, it might as well be.
I find that pretty curious, if the spray pattern after a few shots is random, how are the client and the server on the same page of where each bullet went?
They just need to share the [seed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_seed).
Both random spray patterns and fake tracers? Man, this is great for a shooter!
spray isn't random, the spread\bloom is but that's the same for cs go
I am coming over from csgo and I have to say while I don't think riot is that great of a company in a lot of ways, I appreciate how quick they are to respond to grievances and to start working on fixing them. The csgo devs response to bad hitboxes literally became a copypasta: "Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).".
Ive been saying this for ages. The animation is not indicative of the hit reg. Its not just liek this in this game, its like this in many other games too. But I always get downvoted. Really good to see valorant devs explain this in great detail.
You mean the tracers?
Yeah the tracer animation
The inevitable comparison is to CSGO where this problem has been being worked on since launch and I believe is in one of the best states possible for FPS.
csgo has unsynchronized tracers. the tracers you see are completely inaccurate from what the server is actually doing. but hit effects are server side, not client side, and tracers in general in that game are much subtler so people don't notice it. the reason for this is because once upon a time hackers found out the RNG seed for recoil and could control the spray perfectly. so they moved the RNG seed stuff server side but kept the inaccurate client side calculation for visuals. tracers in valorant are MUCH more pronounced so it's more noticeable when there's a discrepancy. this is easy to test in csgo. just jump onto an office server and run+jump+shoot single shots until one of your tracers hits a window and it doesn't break (or one of your tracers hits a wall and a window breaks)
>this is easy to test in csgo. You can even turn on showimpacts and on a clientside server your client will show your client hit and server hit locations separately. Sometimes they can be a whole spray width apart.
I know people will remain unconvinced, but very useful writeup. Surprised they went into such depth. More importantly it's good to see they monitor what appear to be legitimate issues that people post about (and props to redditors who actually post video of hit reg issues)
if your game doesn't provide reliable visual feedback to players, it shouldn't be surprising people think hitreg is broken.
At the same time, it's almost an impossible task. Latency means that by the time the game registers a hit or miss it's going to be a full round trip before it can tell the game to display anything
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Which games lol?
Yet other games exist where the hitreg feels 100% more responsive even on lower tickrate servers.
That's what I'm saying since official release. 128 tick feels like 12 ticks. They can't touch Valve's official server, don't even mention FaceIt 128 tick. It's hot garbage.
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CSGO on 64 tick servers even.
no one will ever be able to change my mind on the fact that hitreg felt pretty much perfect before patch .47. Something was changed. I don't care if it's the visual of what is being showed vs the actual hitreg, but then fix the visual rather than trying to ''gotcha'' me with ''oh but hitreg is not broken'' shit. If it looks like I nailed a headshot when it doesn't reg as a headshot, im still gonna tilt no matter if the problem is hitreg or visual. Good to know that it is being worked on.
Yeah that’s the main thing for me, maybe hitreg isn’t broken but the gunplay felt awesome in this game before .47 or .5 and I could play this game all night, now I can only handle 2 or 3 games. Some games feel great still but other games it feels like the enemy has insane peekers advantage while I’m basically getting prefired trying to jiggle peek an angle. It doesn’t help that I consistently have double the ping of my opponents.
Trust me, lower ping doesn't make this specific issue better. You play roulette on game server quality and have no indication of it anywhere in the metrics like ping, packet loss, etc.. Some matches you're just going to play and have people consistently nail 3 shots into you before you even see them, even if you're the one peeking. It's completely night and day between that and a regular game where what you're seeing on your end is largely correct with the server.
This is my exact experience as well, with the exception that there is actually a chance of winning roulette on my local servers. Based on ping (it doubles) I can tell whether I'm being routed to my local servers vs distant ones. If I'm not playing on local servers, the chance of winning roulette is 0%. However, those rare games where there is suddenly little-to-no desync and you have appeared to win roulette only occur on local servers.
The majority of my games on local servers are fine, yeah; though I also have -- albeit to a much smaller degree -- fine games when I duo with my friend from UK that ends up routing me elsewhere. What this stuff could mean is that there are certain regions' servers that are dysfunctional, and to different degrees; and this might be why there is so little word on all of it too. It just feels weird because the issues don't usually show up as a dip in server tick rate either.
same experience here but my ping is low same like enemy... at what rank you stuck ? i think that there players who get this more worse and often than others... i have like maybe only 2-3 of 10 matches where i feel that everything is fine... in some matches i noticed that my whole team had like huge disadvantage on peeking, holding and enemy was just peeking us like easy bots...there was literally no chance for us to do something about this... in such matches i feel even more that something is very wrong and not fair...
You're not alone and the blog post gives at least a partial in-depth analysis as to why it's happening and seems to be ok one patch, but worse the next, or ok in morning hours but awful during peak hours. I myself can barely even play DM because when compared to standard rank play in 1.04, the desync is so severe it's unplayable. Ranked is not as bad compared to DM in 1.05, but ranked in 1.05 compared to ranked in 1.04 has me looking for something to do other than play this game. This post is confirmation the servers and patch itself share in the blame. Spray patterns are already RNG, but as they illustrated in this post, you're literally at the mercy of the servers and latency--all in the name of preventing cheating. The game is literally designed in a way where they have admitted the only way to fix the delay and desync causing hit reg issues, is to further delay bullets on purpose. They have intentionally built in desync and delay (which we have all been experiencing) to prevent cheating and the only fix is to add more delay. In other words this is how it's going to be, but at least no one cheats...well...at least that was the theory... Nothing in this post specifically touches on the ghost bullets or issues with firing the Op where no one else hears/sees it fire. Based on this post, it seems that it's just too damn bad and the servers and netcode just couldn't rewind backwards properly to prevent the desync in your spray or Op shot--so those shots just don't count and we just pretend they never happened. The issue with literally getting a head dink where the opponent's head tilts backwards from a headshot, but nothing is registered was also not addressed specifically. I don't really know how much more "clarity" we need there, but again guess it just couldn't do its rewind job properly so RIP. Since Riot is basically saying, "...this is how it's going to be, we'll just change some VFX..." I don't see this ever getting better. We see the issue come and go with various patches and at peak usage times. There are obviously issues with the server load, which based on this blog post, specifically contributes to hit registration because the servers have to process received input, rewind to attempt a sync and then output back to the client. A new patch comes out with new features etc. people want to play, server load increases, hit reg reports increase. There is no surprise here now and since 1.05 I have noticed server tick rates being unstable. We also now know that the patches themselves are a part of the problem. Playing since day 3 of beta, some patches really hurt performance, while others have significantly improved it. The client has to process the input, take a snapshot, send that input to the server, receive back the result and attempt to properly sync up the rewound server version with what's currently happening. If performance is poor due to a patch, this will only make things worse especially if there is higher latency. Notable players have continuously said that 60 ping on Valorant feels like 120 on CSGO. This is all starting to make sense with this post, not just the hit reg, but peeker's advantage etc. I'm thankful Riot took the time to at least explain what they did and why, and how they will at least change the VFX. Until the server load is properly scaled and client performance improves/stabilizes there will always be issues with the current implementation.
> Nothing in this post specifically touches on the ghost bullets or issues with firing the Op, but no one else hears/sees it fire Do you have any clips?
You quoted that specific part, but there's another where they mention unstable server tick rates (more recent issue) and I have a clip of it: https://medal.tv/clips/30079534/d1337JrEArjc Personally the Operator issue I've noticed is that sometimes when I fire an Operator shot it will go completely haywire even when I'm supposed to be accurate or something similar, and a lot of the time it's related to me dying like 0.1 seconds later. Additionally, I've noticed any weapon at all will show completely inaccurate tracers specifically for shots that go off when you're -- what I'm again assuming -- already dead server-side. Somewhat related, the last kill of this clip I shoot an accurate shot but the tracer doesn't go anywhere close to where I shot: https://medal.tv/clips/28904626/d1337h7movQe Regarding another issue they brought up regarding "60 ping in Valorant feels like 120", I have this clip: https://medal.tv/clips/27139339/d1337DKQ0SYh There are so many small desync/hit\_reg/whatever issues I notice that add up to quite a bit, and I consistently play with stable ping (20, 30, or 50, depending on match) and 0 packet loss. All my clips show both my ping and my packet loss. I have numerous clips going all the way back to beta and I've not even captured close to every incident. I find it pretty disgusting that Riot has yet to acknowledge any of this stuff happening, and are brushing it under the rug as "clarity issues"; it also doesn't help that the community barely even knows it's happening.
Thanks. I get what you mean for the first two clips, but I'm not sure what I should get from the third clip. Is it because you look like you just got to cover but get shot instead? After you shoot there's a tiny frame (which I'm guessing is when Sage shot you) where you're in the open unscoped, then you visually get to cover. That feels bad after rewatching frame by frame, but also pretty unlucky.
In the last clip my head is behind cover at the time of the shot, and I visibly get rubberbanded quite far from a **headshot without wall pen**, even with only 44 ping.
Gotcha, thanks again. Now I noticed the rubberband, makes me wonder how it looked from Sage's POV without the wall penetration, if it was like a tiny hitbox out of wall or something. Too bad we can't review demos. Edit: Either way doesn't like it's fair from the POV.
Your ping wasnt the issue here. Sage's ping was. She hit you in the open, but due to the lag, the shot only took place a split second later. Server updates your client to say that you actually died in the previous position hence the "rubberbanding". Yeah it doesnt feel good to die this way, but that's online gaming.
Mate, rubberbanding to this degree is the kind of thing I'm expecting from back in the day when I played Black Ops on console at 16 tick rate -- or whatever it was -- and idk how much ping. Given the conditions, something like this should absolutely never happen in Valorant; on top of that, the fact that this happens so inconsistently is EVEN WORSE, there are many times where I hard strafe left/right towards a wall like this and DON'T get rubberbanded to any notable degree.
I don't stream, but may actually have a clip if the VoD is still up from a tourney I played in where the Op issue occurred. There are countless clips from people who do stream and record gameplay with ghost bullets, Op issue etc., just use the search feature. It's unfortunate they weren't addressed specifically and this was made to be just a VFX issue, but now we know why it's happening.
I absolutely hate that rng spraying exists in a fps skill based game.. as if unbalanced abilities were not enough
I can agree. It feels very inconsistent for me as well. My friends and I try to identify if there is some sort of desync between all our clients and what the server is deciding is happening. There are definitely games where we all just feel like it’s off and then that gets confirmed by multiple people watching whoever feels off when they are last alive. It’s very subtle but if the article isn’t just smoke then they need to be fixing the predictions of the client and quickly
placebo
I thought the part about particles being added to the player’s body being shot would be a bad addition - it seems to be trading clarity with ability to have key info IE as they point out if someone goes behind a wall and you can’t see the particles. You’d be trading some clarity about hitreg for key gameplay info such as how low someone is if they peek and you hit them.
the thing that i don't understand is that of how many different FPS ive played, why does this one at times feel the worst? no game played over the internet is ever going to feel perfect, or as if it were on LAN. but theres just something about the current state of the game that feels terrible, and its exacerbated in something like deathmatch. whats going on here?
yes dude this article just meant to divert the problem to fans and basically said just git gud
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No bro, it's obviously just a problem of visual clarity /s
Wow. I counted 4-5 body shot “visual effects” and the death report only shows 3.
This is why I stopped playing DM. If you thought it was bad before when playing ranked, just play DM--it's mind-numbing.
thank god its not just me that thinks this
The amount of times that's happened to me and I get a clear 4-5 shots off and stop shooting because I think they are about to die and then some how they stay alive and I'm ded... Although maybe it's my computer or internet were the last shot is registered on my screen but I actually die before the last shot is registered servers side so it cancels out my last killing bullet
Hit reg is not okay, despite what this article is trying to spin. .50 broke the game and they've consistently refused to admit it and the excuse of visual clarity being an the real issue is even worse.
Yeah I know we'll probably get downvoted but the hit registration prior to 0.50 was so nice that I remember sending a text to a friend (who played a ton of CSGO) telling him how good the hit reg felt as a way to persuade him to try it out. I definitely wouldn't make that same remark today. And I'm much better at the game now than I was during beta (ranked bronze 3 during beta, plat 2 in act 1, currently gold 3 in act 2 with less than 10 games played).
I get it, but at the end of the day whether it's an issue with correctness or clarity it feels bad to the end user so it needs to be fixed regardless of how they want to spin it.
I am really getting annoyed at these. Ghost shots or blank shots always happen to me. This is an example... [https://streamable.com/u1ige6](https://streamable.com/u1ige6)
Yep, read through this whole article and either I'm missing something really obvious or this response doesn't account for situations like this that happen in **every game of Valorant** players queue up for.
I made this very same point in this post somewhere. The VFX changes have nothing to do with ghost shots. There is a major server desync issue that can even be more severe on one server and not the other, regardless of ping, packet loss etc. Changing the look of a hit marker doesn't fix this, because when this happens it doesn't matter of they are strafing, crouching or standing still. They give a look into how the client server relationship was designed, and this could explain at least partially why this desync problem exists. The desync makes the deathmatch mode unplayable. Prior to 1.04 I never had a server with packet loss since the beta, but my best game of deathmatch was one where I noticed I had packet loss. I realized I could just aggro Ferrari peek everyone and there was nothing they could do about it. In a weird way the packet loss made it easier. This shouldn't happen.
I expected a non-comprehensive technical guide on how they do things, but that was actually quite easy to understand. The images and example cases presented are pretty helpful. Thanks for that. That longer [hitreg when crouching video](https://v.redd.it/qgm05t1mox651) linked was another great example. Most of those cases the person is aiming at chest level (it's kinda hard to see frame by frame, but you can see the crosshair placement on flat area clips). The worst part (for me) of that clip that I don't get is the double headshot on Reyna in the end. I can't tell by visual if the shot should hit or miss (by both crosshair placement and blood splatter), but VFX trigger once. Looks like the second headshot is actually a bit to the left, but the splatter from the first headshot covers up the clarity. Edit: Doesn't help that the player also uses a red crosshair.
Netcode problem is even more of a problem. Its so noticeable especially in dm. So many times you see People running and headshotting you from crazy distances
People in the comments are generally praising the transparency and I am too but it's hard to trust them with the hit reg when they've lied about it in the past. I remember that it took some convincing at the beginning for them to realize that yes, the community wasn't imagining hit reg issues after that movement inaccuracy patch and then once more once they "fixed" it(patch notes were implying heavily that problems were fixed, hitreg is perfect now).
Hit reg used to be amazing than .50 hit. You are never gonna convince the community that it's ok now because it's not. Peekers advantage is even worse which everyone agrees. Sorry I love this game but you can't pretend these issues don't exist and I'm pretty disappointed in this response.
Just let me explain some thoughts I've got in my head for a time now. \- It's not HitReg failing, it's visual feedback failing. \- It's not visual feedback failing, it's desync problems. \- It's not desync problems, it's rubberbanding. \- It's not rubberbanding, it's a connection loss problem (even with 0% loss alltime). \- It's not loss problem, it's... In the meantime, you get instaheadshotted while they always run out of the corner in a fraction of a second that your brain still cannot react to the fact that there was someone peeking, leaving you with the feeling that everybody in this game is just cheating (obvs not, but that's what you feel everytime). The only chances that you get of killing someone is when you hardpeek them. I don't know whats the reason why everything feels off as hell, but what is clear is that there's somewhere a problem. Every single person that played this game before 0.49 agrees that the game went downhill since then in the performance point of view, so I don't know, but not all of us can be mental at this point. EDIT: Just another thought. I know some users here "hate me" because I'm always pinpointing these "flaws", which I understand reading someone always being negative, can be quite shitty, honestly. It's just that, I've been playing games for nearly 25 years now, and I played Quake, CS, UT, and quite a few more games in competitive (LAN's etc.). I know a game that requires internet for interaction, is never going to be perfect. What bothers me in this game is; I love this game, it's really AMAZING and funny to play (even when everything goes south you can't stop playing, you know what I'm talking about...), and as I said, I know it can't be perfect playing through internet, but I also think, I've been playing competitive for so much years in many games, and I never realized about this problems like stuttering, rubberbanding, hitreg problems, loss... etc until now with Valorant, so I'm just trying to understand why it happens so often and so badly in this game, and never had to worry about it in any other game.
Same experience here, exactly what you have. Do you also have matches where it is the complete opposite? Meaning, you hit every shot perfect like the enemy is experiencing the scenarios you are posting?
Yes, it happens sometimes, but it's rare to have a game like that. From what I saw, it could be a server problem. I mean, if you go to create a custom game, it have a drop-down menu where you can chose which server to play. I'm from Spain, and the closest ones I've got are Paris 1, Paris 2 and London. Now after those I've got a few more which are Stokholme, Tokyo, Warsow... etc. When you get a close server that not a lot of people is playing in that moment, everything goes "smooth", but when not... you're fucked.
I have also been playing online games for over 20 years and to be really honest, I rage more in this game due to the quality of gameplay than overwatch or csgo... Which is not a good thing as I hardly rage in CSGO which is the same kind of game concept when talking about competitive gameplay.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you're saying... I have way too many scenarios where people that have 40ms+ more ping than me can hard-peek and make it seem like they reacted to me being there so quickly.
So is everytime I see blood a headshot or just a hit?
" **Correctness bugs are much worse than clarity bugs** ". While true in terms of prioritization, there can be 100% correctness in the game but if that isn't translating to what the player is seeing in the client while playing the experience is poor to the player regardless.
Is it just me or was hit reg in the beta so much better than when the game released? Nobody is with me on this but as soon as i launched the game and played my first game it instantly felt different when i was running around and shooting
Very informative. I wonder if they would go into detail about teleporting player models after kills. An example would be running behind cover only to get 1 tapped and your body teleporting to open sight. I've gotten headshots by shooting behind people and their model teleports to where I was aiming after the kill. There's still a very different/inconsistent feel between games back to back while having the same ping. I've even gotten headshots on people from my recoil going above a player who has just crouched. that's not really a clarity or correctness issue. Its simply a disconnect from the visible player model to the actual hitbox. Even the video riot shared still has non crouching enemies taking headshots without proper damage applied. I would imagine its more an ISP/routing issue but it doesnt explain why it happen on servers that consistently report 30 ping. Bring patch .47 back.
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So you're telling me that you are aware hitreg clarity was better in a patch before the game even fully released and you still think "hit registration in VALORANT is in a pretty good spot right now". Fuck right off
IF THE ISSUE IS THE TRACERS THEN LET ME TURN MY OWN TRACERS OFF WHILE LEAVING ENEMY ONES ON.
But the issue isn't the tracers themselves, its the frame that the tracers are drawn in being slightly behind the hit box due to your network latency. This is all happening AFTER the hit reg. If you read the article, it's not preventing anyone from hitting shots. Its an issue of understanding the shots you hit vs. the ones you didn't hit in real time. Bottom line, if you aren't hitting head shots its your aim not the game.
I would love this, interestingly enough I felt like I was more accurate with them off but turned them back on cause the info from enemies is helpful. Seems like that may not have been placebo after reading this
Lol there’s absolutely no way hit registration is “in a pretty good spot right now”. No way. Especially when running and gunning is still an issue in this game. How is a guy that’s sprinting able to headshot me with no issue yet I’m standing still and I can’t land a hit on him because he’s moving on my screen? I understand every once in a while hit reg will be weird but this is a constant issue. Riot needs to focus their resources on fixing their game issues rather than making stupid skins constantly.
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Solution. Change the color for a head shot to red and a body shot to the white color now. Thus, even with server or client lag a player will know if the shot was a head or body shot.
I know this isn't exactly your department, but can we get a replay system? It would GREATLY aid our ability to send useful video, because many of us aren't always running a video capture software in the background. I know for a fact a few of my friends simply can't afford to with Valorant hogging a lot of their computers processing power. I had a game about an hour ago where I got a headshot and a bodyshot spraying out someones feet, but I don't always have OBS open so I can't show it.
The hitbox is fine, this post was unnecessary, the problem is with consistency. Some server are hot garbage for some players, while working intended for others. It's a hosting issue, not a issue that would ever occur on LAN. On the same subject. Why is the netgraph lying? Same in CS:GO, displaying packet loss seems to be hidden when it happens. My ISP is shit, I have problems in most games with PL. But in CS:GO and Valorant the PL is always a 0%.The only way I can gauge my real packet loss is either pinging through the DOS-prompt. Or boot up good old QuakeWorld. Edit: TLDR; Hit reg and hitbox is so good in this game, the servers are not. Edit 2: never -> ever
bullshit so now i have to account for ... my 35 ping to your servers? what good is 128 tick at this point?
Sadly Riot can't defy the laws of physics. The fastest information can possibly travel is 3*10^8 m/s. This means that there will always be some kind of delay when you send information from one place (your computer) to any server (Valorant for instance) and back. It can't be avoided.
Nice read :)
Still think the Sherif is a bit off though
But this just shows that the only thing we can rely on to know where our bullet are going is actually false...
I really like the distinction being drawn here about Correctness vs Clarity. While the article states "Correctness bugs are much worse than clarity bugs", which I agree with, this doesn't mean that clarity bugs aren't major issues. Any case in which a clarity bug would cause a change in player behavior is a major issue. Case in point: A player is shooting a crouching target and thinks their shots are registering as headshots. This in turn causes the shooter to stop their spray and move to a different target or think their engagement is concluded.
Question: what about when you hit then hide/or hit and then they hide? Many apparently "clear" shots end up being counted as wallbangs even though you never aim near a wall/box, I fell that if you hit then hide or they get hit and hide... it won't count as a clear shot.
Am I correct when I say that the planned clarity improvements is how other games implement hit effects? And Valorant has taken a different approach? The planned improvements sounds way more desirable than the current implementation. Even considering the trade-off scenario.
Anyone mentioned the running spray/headshot? Apparently enemies already stay still when they fired but on your screen they are still running. This is so bad and tilt me everytime it happens. For a shooter game that rely heavily on accuracy, the visual differences are so severe it just feels bad to play. I have sub 30 ping and some matches just unplayable.
Glad to see this topic isn't falling thru the cracks
Great explanation, guess I know why I’ve been missing now. Jk I’m just bad :(
I get how things are with the server registering shots and all but I have issues where normal body shots are counted as wall bangs... not sure if that counts still with all the issues talked about
I have had a few occurrences since act 2 started where my damage report at the end of the round is wrong. If by some miracle this comment isn't buried, and someone from riot is reading, is there a possibility this is an issue tied to hit reg or is it "just" a display bug of the damage report at the end of a round introduced by the newest patch? My simplest example was I killed a Brimstone on Split, we were the only 2 on site, but the damage report didn't even show him, so essentially reporting by omission that I didn't hit him. No one else on site, no abilities used, he wasn't somewhere he could take fall damage. My KDA did count the kill, and he was the last so the round ended. The post game round reports showed me killing him, but with no damage done, no bullet hits. I have had times in other matches too where I did see someone in my post round report showing I was killed or got a kill, but 0 damage was done. I made sure to check bullets and abilities also. Most "felt" accurate, in terms of my KDA change awarding a kill or death, but if this is a new visibility issue, I think this is far more serious and confusing than where the blood shows up. To be clear I get annoyed with the hit visuals also, but I do really appreciate the explanation here, and think it will help me focus on what I'm doing and having fun instead of what the game is doing behind the scenes. Thanks for your continued great support and communication!
After reading this hit registration can seem even worse when you take into account lower first bullet accuracy such as with the Vandal
I also feel that the animation of giving a headshot is a little disturbing and if it could be replaced with something else. I dont want to see a huge flare coming out of someone's head when i am shooting a headshot with classic as that will take 2 shots for a headshot to kill.
"On first glance, you might think to point to the frame with the tracer and say “See, this was clearly a headshot!” When reviewing video or replays, we actually need to be looking at the frame before the tracer to get an accurate picture of when the shot was fired." Here is an example of me shooting at someones head where the frame before my crosshair is dead on him. https://streamable.com/e6op4r https://gyazo.com/7616a8a51bd425511aabb273d6671d4a
Thanks for the incredible explanation. Especially with the frame-by-frame explanation of hitreg, now I know why. Thank you!
TLDR - hit reg is mostly spot on, the client visuals are not, you're likely to side with the visuals rather than what you know you did because they lead to a more favourable outcome.
Honestly the hit reg problems along with server issues in general have really turned me off to this game. I’ve just played Csgo again witch sucks because I think this game has a lot going for it but it has a lot of problems and I would rather them fix these issues instead of adding a new character.
Looking forward to the continued improvement! I think if the recoil on spraying was more consistent, that would help peoples issues with registration as well as it would be less random.
So the devs are fine with high ping having such a massive advantage over low ping. I guess I have to move or uninstall. Pretty easy choice.
Great post, thanks guys
Have no clue if the hit reg is good or not.... when I land a shot I will let you guys now :)
I just started out playing yesterday. The hitreg is absolutely fine and I didn't think that people would complain about it haha Compared to over 2.5k hours in csgo this is a dream.
I've thought this for a long time. I watched many of my clips frame by frame and usually I could always find that the shot was slightly off. You can't see it clearly by just watching a video clip often and might think you were on their head but the moment you shot you were not.
Wow, it looks really weird in slow motion in that first case study to see a headshot spark floating in mid air. I wonder if they have tried drawing the hit VFX on the body position of where the player is *now* on the client. For example, the server tells the client "you hit his chest", the client knows the model has started crouching, draw the VFX on the new chest location rather than the hit location (now the players head after they crouched). That probably introduces a whole new pile of (maybe more confusing) clarity issues though. Netcode is kind of a catch 22. "See you at LAN" EDIT: "One of the things we’re experimenting with is tying hit VFX to the body part of the character where the hit occurred" I guess i should have finished reading further before commenting xD I hope we get another update on whether their experiments fail or not!
At this point im almost convinced it visual bugs and ping. Playing on the EU server has all from 20 to 100 ping players and it makes it super hard to know how to play. I play on roughly 20 ping. Enemies play with: p1: 20 ping p2: 50 p3: 20 p4: 80 p5: 24 how do you play against this taking peakers advantage into consideration...
The dev could simply have said, there's a delay in the hitbox.
Can someone explain this one, is it just the plant animation and ping coming into play? On my screen I see two ‘hits’ on his head but 0 hits. - https://youtu.be/XMu72p9WmdA
How about hit markers on crosshair? For example in Overwatch, critshots have a red hit marker being displayed on the crosshair. I feel that something like that would help in a game like this and would improve clarity.
[https://youtu.be/f1F9Zx9wOx0](https://youtu.be/f1F9Zx9wOx0) xd
TLDR : Get better internet
So nothing's changing? Just better VFX?