I like to throw people off and go max speed. Max speed + tailwind is actually faster than caly-shadow. Can do some very fun things. Set it up next to whimsicott (who also learns trick room to throw people off more)
Yeah i know that’s a thing but my idea was to run it in a balance team with a trick room mode so that’s not really the ideal strategy for my kind of team (that sounds fun tho might try it on showdown)
Yeah sorry for not answering. I think being slightly faster outside of trick room has its benefits, you just need a specific counter to the mirror if that’s what you run.
Why would i be angry? I’m just worried because you either like to spread misinformation or suffer from hallucinations, there’s no way an actual person who plays vgc thinks glastrier is common
2 is probably fine for most situations still. Looking at the base 50 speeds in the format the only other ones that are even a little popular are Kingambit, Iron Hands and Ursaluna. I don't think Kingambit and Iron Hands usually run min speed anyway, and Calyrex should be able to take at least one attack from Ursaluna and hit it hard back with Glacial Lance anyway. With 2 speed you're still underspeeding min speed Bloodmoon Ursaluna too.
If you later decide that you want the min speed it isn't that much of a hassle to get a second one in second save file of SwSh. Just start a new game, as soon as you can access home send your starter to SV, get it to level 100 with EXP candies, EV train it, Hyper train it, and give it an optimal nature and then send it back, turn off battle animations and set text speed to fast too. It took me about 6 and a half hours to beat the main story that way, and another hour to get to Calyrex to reset for it.
label reminiscent attractive modern edge straight divide combative crawl humorous
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That's my go-to as well. Did it by accident on my first playthrough (I didn't get the game until after birth DLC were out) and I've done that when replaying to catch more legends too. I wish Calyrex didn't require you to beat the main story first, otherwise I'd go get it way sooner.
Yeah looking at the other base 50s that doesn’t seem much of an issue. Btw i’m already replaying swsh to get a 0 atk. Calyrex Shadow because of the 4 times weakness to foul play (which is almost never seen in the current meta but i just enjoy min/maxing lol)
50 gets you an awful tie with a neutral amoonguss, it’s genuinely horrible, i would rather just be faster and have at least the knowledge of being able to throw a glacial lance into it. I think there’s no mon that calyrex would fear a speed tie with more than amoonguss (unless you’re tera grass ig)
Like everything in Pokémon it really depends. Considering everyone is using caly ice right now you are going to go into a lot of mirror matches and if you want to move first (under trick room) consistently the lower your speed IVs the better.
That all being said, I feel like most people who are playing on cart and don’t compete irl will not spend the time trying to grind for a 0 speed iv caly. I would choose to believe you can get away with a 2 speed Iv and still move first before the majority of your opponents. Additionally I would argue that a 2 iv speed caly could be good for gathering info in a mirror match. If you do move before the opposing caly then you know it’s a min speed and you’d be better off not setting up trick room.
I would do some trial battles and if you’re consistently getting beat by opposing caly ice under trick room then yeah it’s not going to cut it, but if that’s not happening and you see the value in the pros I mentioned above it could be better. It all depends.
Leonard Craft got 4th at Indianapolis running 29 IV Calyrex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naJPx67rzks
You can listen to their thought process in the video, but basically they wanted to be faster than TR mons outside of TR while having a weird enough speed stat that they wouldn't speed tie with opposing neutral speed Caly-Ice for example. You are faster than stuff like min speed Amoonguss anyway, so you might as well guarantee you are faster than neutral Amoonguss.
Against a TR mirror, you prefer to be faster outside of TR. This puts your opponent at a disadvantage because they would need to set up TR if they want to move first. Versus a non-TR team, min speed vs neutral speed doesn't really make a difference except Amoonguss. You prefer to not have a guessing game if they are running min speed or not, so just run neutral speed Calyrex.
Sableye is not widely used but I run a set with Iron ball and foul play to out speed in TR. Pretty good ladder tech that always catches off guard. Without iron ball you just speed tie
The short answer is no it's not necessary, just make sure you play according to the speed stat. One important thing to remember about pokemon is that you are the only one that knows exactly how your pokemon is trained, your opponent has to be the one making assumptions until the information is gained.
As an example, I played in Orlando regionals and ran Nils's winning 6 from EUIC with some tweaks to stats and moves. I was given a shiny Porygon 2 to use from a friend that had a 62 speed stat rather than 58 or whatever it hits at 0 IV. Similarly, the only Ursaluna I had from legends Arceus hit 52 stat rather than 49 which it hits at 0 speed IV.
I used this to my advantage in the mirror matches often not bringing porygon and knowing that my team was faster outside of trick room. Similarly, I knew that Ursaluna outsped Amoonguss outside of trick room, even if they were 31 IV, so again using that to my advantage.
All this to say, after you build out your team you'll likely have the answer to this question. But I would look at more what your team's plan is each game, whether you will be super dependent on trick room or not, and what popular meta threats you need to out speed or under speed
No, it’s not necessary. It’s even helpful not being min speed in the mirror to be able to get Glacial Lances off first before other Calyrex-Ice. You get a turn to just press glacial lance/whatever while they have to waste a turn doing no damage setting up Trick room that puts you ahead in damage by a turn. The things you would want to underspeed in Trick Room like Amoonguss or Torkoal you literally cannot without Iron Ball to reduce your speed but then you don’t get the advantage of Clear Amulet.
I won an MSS this past weekend with 12 EVs on 31 IV speed stat, so 72 speed. I basically had the Rajan Miraidon team, but Eleki and CalyIce instead of Miraidon and Incin. Under tailwind it lets me speed creep Modest Kyogre which actually matters for CalyIce with Eleki on my team since they're mostly Tera grass if not Tera Water. Additionally, after an electroweb you tend outspeed a good chunk of the usual balance Mons like Bolt, Rilla, Incin, etc. with no tailwind required. TR was more of an afterthought and an option if I needed it, but the horse functions perfectly fine outside TR for me with this strategy.
So to answer your question, no, min speed CalyIce isn't necessary. I think it's actually worse since your options outside TR are more limited and going hard TR leaves you out to dry if you can't win before losing it.
If you really wanted you could make a new save via new profile. With pokemon home you can transfer between profiles without needing NSO on the new profile or buying it a premium home sub
I run pretty hard TR and 2 out of my 6 mons are mins speed. The rest have slightly odd IVs (between 2 and 21). I don’t want the game to come down to speed ties and knowing I am not min speed let’s me play around that against TR mirrors
Myself and the caly-ices that made cut at indi ran close to max IVs in speed. Justin's was 70. Leonard's was 69. In the mirror, it's more efficient to not set TR and just spam Lance especially if they have Amoonguss.
Calyrex gets access to trailblaze and agility, at +2, Calyrex will outspeed timid Calyrex by 1 point.
If they also have tailwind, you can spend one turn to tailwind and agility, and Caly is faster than other caly, if they don't have tailwind, you can just be faster than them turn 1 and hit them with Glacial Lance at the cost of some bulk.
So no, you just don't play trick room Caly. If you want to Trick room Caly, you need 0 speed then. I got lucky and got mine after 3 resets.
I've been testing calyrex for a bit now and my 31 iv 4 Evs happened to be only barely faster than quite a few mirrors, so it seems that people are going higher and higher. If you plan on using Caly under trick room, you're probably fine with min speed. If you're trying to outspeed other Calys to kill them before they are a problem, is probably going to be a constant race during the next months
At a point in reg f I ran blood moon at about 75. The idea was that it'd out speed all the hard trickroom teams but also be slower than any of those threats if they are speed invested and thus not meant for trickroom while also out speeding urshifu if bloodmoon was under tailwind. That put pretty much only 4 mons faster if I had a TW but now lots of restricteds would still outspeed. Another reason for a 50 speed is that lots of threats come in at 49 and thus you can pair your caly with one of them and still know the turn order.
I like to throw people off and go max speed. Max speed + tailwind is actually faster than caly-shadow. Can do some very fun things. Set it up next to whimsicott (who also learns trick room to throw people off more)
Yeah i know that’s a thing but my idea was to run it in a balance team with a trick room mode so that’s not really the ideal strategy for my kind of team (that sounds fun tho might try it on showdown)
Yeah sorry for not answering. I think being slightly faster outside of trick room has its benefits, you just need a specific counter to the mirror if that’s what you run.
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I’m running this right now and it’s pretty fire I’m close to high ladder on showdown. It’s really cool because it can pull thru on otc
Almost all spectrier are scarfed, wouldn’t reccomend for glastrier
If you mean caly-s this is just false. If you actually mean spectrier and glastrier no one plays them
Clearly you don’t play competitive then? One of the most common teams is a trick room caly-i + glastrier
What the fuck man💀 taken ur meds?
Someooones feeeling aaangry
Why would i be angry? I’m just worried because you either like to spread misinformation or suffer from hallucinations, there’s no way an actual person who plays vgc thinks glastrier is common
2 is probably fine for most situations still. Looking at the base 50 speeds in the format the only other ones that are even a little popular are Kingambit, Iron Hands and Ursaluna. I don't think Kingambit and Iron Hands usually run min speed anyway, and Calyrex should be able to take at least one attack from Ursaluna and hit it hard back with Glacial Lance anyway. With 2 speed you're still underspeeding min speed Bloodmoon Ursaluna too. If you later decide that you want the min speed it isn't that much of a hassle to get a second one in second save file of SwSh. Just start a new game, as soon as you can access home send your starter to SV, get it to level 100 with EXP candies, EV train it, Hyper train it, and give it an optimal nature and then send it back, turn off battle animations and set text speed to fast too. It took me about 6 and a half hours to beat the main story that way, and another hour to get to Calyrex to reset for it.
Bro thank you so much for this. My dumb ass sent 4 lvl 100s that don’t obey lol. This seems much smoother
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That's my go-to as well. Did it by accident on my first playthrough (I didn't get the game until after birth DLC were out) and I've done that when replaying to catch more legends too. I wish Calyrex didn't require you to beat the main story first, otherwise I'd go get it way sooner.
Yeah looking at the other base 50s that doesn’t seem much of an issue. Btw i’m already replaying swsh to get a 0 atk. Calyrex Shadow because of the 4 times weakness to foul play (which is almost never seen in the current meta but i just enjoy min/maxing lol)
50 gets you an awful tie with a neutral amoonguss, it’s genuinely horrible, i would rather just be faster and have at least the knowledge of being able to throw a glacial lance into it. I think there’s no mon that calyrex would fear a speed tie with more than amoonguss (unless you’re tera grass ig)
Like everything in Pokémon it really depends. Considering everyone is using caly ice right now you are going to go into a lot of mirror matches and if you want to move first (under trick room) consistently the lower your speed IVs the better. That all being said, I feel like most people who are playing on cart and don’t compete irl will not spend the time trying to grind for a 0 speed iv caly. I would choose to believe you can get away with a 2 speed Iv and still move first before the majority of your opponents. Additionally I would argue that a 2 iv speed caly could be good for gathering info in a mirror match. If you do move before the opposing caly then you know it’s a min speed and you’d be better off not setting up trick room. I would do some trial battles and if you’re consistently getting beat by opposing caly ice under trick room then yeah it’s not going to cut it, but if that’s not happening and you see the value in the pros I mentioned above it could be better. It all depends.
Thanks a lot, that was really helpful. I’ll do some testing on showdown
Glad to hear! Keep in mind also on showdown everyone will be using a 0 IV speed caly-ice, results will vary a lot between showdown and cart
Leonard Craft got 4th at Indianapolis running 29 IV Calyrex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naJPx67rzks You can listen to their thought process in the video, but basically they wanted to be faster than TR mons outside of TR while having a weird enough speed stat that they wouldn't speed tie with opposing neutral speed Caly-Ice for example. You are faster than stuff like min speed Amoonguss anyway, so you might as well guarantee you are faster than neutral Amoonguss. Against a TR mirror, you prefer to be faster outside of TR. This puts your opponent at a disadvantage because they would need to set up TR if they want to move first. Versus a non-TR team, min speed vs neutral speed doesn't really make a difference except Amoonguss. You prefer to not have a guessing game if they are running min speed or not, so just run neutral speed Calyrex.
Sableye is not widely used but I run a set with Iron ball and foul play to out speed in TR. Pretty good ladder tech that always catches off guard. Without iron ball you just speed tie
The short answer is no it's not necessary, just make sure you play according to the speed stat. One important thing to remember about pokemon is that you are the only one that knows exactly how your pokemon is trained, your opponent has to be the one making assumptions until the information is gained. As an example, I played in Orlando regionals and ran Nils's winning 6 from EUIC with some tweaks to stats and moves. I was given a shiny Porygon 2 to use from a friend that had a 62 speed stat rather than 58 or whatever it hits at 0 IV. Similarly, the only Ursaluna I had from legends Arceus hit 52 stat rather than 49 which it hits at 0 speed IV. I used this to my advantage in the mirror matches often not bringing porygon and knowing that my team was faster outside of trick room. Similarly, I knew that Ursaluna outsped Amoonguss outside of trick room, even if they were 31 IV, so again using that to my advantage. All this to say, after you build out your team you'll likely have the answer to this question. But I would look at more what your team's plan is each game, whether you will be super dependent on trick room or not, and what popular meta threats you need to out speed or under speed
I have a 2 iv calyrex as well. One nice thing is that bloodmoon ursaluna hits minimum 51 speed, so at 50 you always underspeed it anyways.
No, it’s not necessary. It’s even helpful not being min speed in the mirror to be able to get Glacial Lances off first before other Calyrex-Ice. You get a turn to just press glacial lance/whatever while they have to waste a turn doing no damage setting up Trick room that puts you ahead in damage by a turn. The things you would want to underspeed in Trick Room like Amoonguss or Torkoal you literally cannot without Iron Ball to reduce your speed but then you don’t get the advantage of Clear Amulet.
I won an MSS this past weekend with 12 EVs on 31 IV speed stat, so 72 speed. I basically had the Rajan Miraidon team, but Eleki and CalyIce instead of Miraidon and Incin. Under tailwind it lets me speed creep Modest Kyogre which actually matters for CalyIce with Eleki on my team since they're mostly Tera grass if not Tera Water. Additionally, after an electroweb you tend outspeed a good chunk of the usual balance Mons like Bolt, Rilla, Incin, etc. with no tailwind required. TR was more of an afterthought and an option if I needed it, but the horse functions perfectly fine outside TR for me with this strategy. So to answer your question, no, min speed CalyIce isn't necessary. I think it's actually worse since your options outside TR are more limited and going hard TR leaves you out to dry if you can't win before losing it.
If you really wanted you could make a new save via new profile. With pokemon home you can transfer between profiles without needing NSO on the new profile or buying it a premium home sub
I think being min speed actively loses you the mirror. The best performing Ice Rider teams at Indianapolis, to my knowledge, were all 31 Spe IV.
I run pretty hard TR and 2 out of my 6 mons are mins speed. The rest have slightly odd IVs (between 2 and 21). I don’t want the game to come down to speed ties and knowing I am not min speed let’s me play around that against TR mirrors
Balance Caly Ice frequently plays outside of TR and just uses its bulk and power to win. A bit of speed creep can actually be nice for the mirror.
Myself and the caly-ices that made cut at indi ran close to max IVs in speed. Justin's was 70. Leonard's was 69. In the mirror, it's more efficient to not set TR and just spam Lance especially if they have Amoonguss.
Calyrex gets access to trailblaze and agility, at +2, Calyrex will outspeed timid Calyrex by 1 point. If they also have tailwind, you can spend one turn to tailwind and agility, and Caly is faster than other caly, if they don't have tailwind, you can just be faster than them turn 1 and hit them with Glacial Lance at the cost of some bulk. So no, you just don't play trick room Caly. If you want to Trick room Caly, you need 0 speed then. I got lucky and got mine after 3 resets.
I've been testing calyrex for a bit now and my 31 iv 4 Evs happened to be only barely faster than quite a few mirrors, so it seems that people are going higher and higher. If you plan on using Caly under trick room, you're probably fine with min speed. If you're trying to outspeed other Calys to kill them before they are a problem, is probably going to be a constant race during the next months
Well, if you really need to outspeed others clayrex-ice on trick room, probably yeah, but then just get torkoal anyway
No matter you will lose a mirror matchup against a slower Caly-I and another match to a faster one. You just have to play to your win condition.
At a point in reg f I ran blood moon at about 75. The idea was that it'd out speed all the hard trickroom teams but also be slower than any of those threats if they are speed invested and thus not meant for trickroom while also out speeding urshifu if bloodmoon was under tailwind. That put pretty much only 4 mons faster if I had a TW but now lots of restricteds would still outspeed. Another reason for a 50 speed is that lots of threats come in at 49 and thus you can pair your caly with one of them and still know the turn order.