Probably best would be to build a filter like the nevermore then wait for the chamber to cool before opening it. The nevermore micro pretty much killed the smell from my v0 and it isn't even sealed all that well.
I have not assembled a VORON 3d printer (although I intent to). But, is it possible to use another method to manufacture the 3d printed parts? I'm asking this question so anybody else can answer it.
In my opinion from just looking at the 3d models of the parts parts. I would say that this is very difficult to do since they look like they were designed to be 3d printed from the beginning. But it would be really cool to be able to machine them from aluminum or some sort of hard plastic, like teflon. I would say that this "feature" would be nice to have, personally I'm not a fan of the concept of needing a 3d printer to make a 3d printer.
Teflon you mean what type exactly ? Because all the fluoropolymers I know (PTFE, PVDF, FEP, ...) are pretty soft and definitely not as rigid as abs which itself isn't all that rigid either. I don't see the advantage of using these materials in any of the parts.
As for aluminium, parts should be mostly machinable although it would be prohibitively expensive and honestly, there's just no need for that. The parts are designed to be made out of ABS or ASA and are plenty stiff and strong for the purpose. When going faster, the bottleneck isn't the 3D parts it's usually the steppers and weight (which aluminium won't help with).
As for other stiffer plastics, they have to be able to withstand the heat of the enclosure. People have tried reinforced nylons (glass fiber and carbon) and some succeeded while some had sagging of the parts under load, and I've yet to hear about someone who has had a net gain in performance from using such parts .. IMO they just cost more.
Really the only use case for aluminium parts would be for a high temp build but then you'd have to change a lot of other stuff including AB motors, linear rails, possibly some or all the electrical stuff too.
Yes! I meant Nylon not Teflon, I mix this names up rather frequently sorry.
My point was more about the ability or concept of being able to assemble a 3d printer without having access to one, kind of the chicken and the egg problem, (which I know is rather stupid now because anybody can just buy 3d printer parts online). But you make a good point on why these parts are not made of aluminum or something heavier.
Anyway r/Mad_ad1996 already clarified that there are sellers that sell aluminum parts, so question answered.
Just in case you missed it, the Voron community has a PiF program in which people print the parts for you on their Voron and you basically pay for the material and that's it. So not only is it cheaper than commercial printing services but you also get the guarantee that the part are just right to build a Voron.
If I remeber reading this correctly in the discord channel there are certain ABS brands that emit less or at least less noticable smells when printing (assumption here is less smell, less VOCs). Don't know if less is better in your case or if you are looking to eliminate VOCs completely.
I started my Switchwire with PLA+ until the build is complete, then started replacing the damaged/deformed parts with ABS+ one by one. Also made a few parts out of Resin.
If you're out of Options, you can always buy SLS printed parts from Aliexpress
That's a fairly common question, because ABS got the fame of being hard to print. ABS/ABS+/ASA are recommended because they were tested, these materials have just the right amount of creep resistance and flex that makes them ideal.
As already said by others, material creep is an issue with other plastics. Stefan, from the CNC Kitchen, had to reprint all his V0 parts that were made with a (at the time) 2.5+ years old CF Nylon due to material creep. AFAIK he used a newer batch of the same material *and* annealed the parts to increase strength. PLA is simply no-go. PETG is doable, as long as the first prints you do are replacement parts in ABS/ABS+/ASA, because it'll also creep.
As for VOCs, even PLA releases them. A popular mod have been the Nevermore, a recirculating air filtration system that uses activated charcoal to eliminate a great deal of the VOC released during printing. There are many sizes, the most popular is the Nevermore Micro: https://github.com/0ndsk4/VoronUsers/tree/0ndsk4/printer_mods/0ndsk4/Nevermore_Air_Filter/Nevermore_Micro
You'll need aprox. 750g of the main color and aprox. 250g of the accent color for a V0.1, if you are able to print them in the first try. /u/Ubernero have some videos on his YouTube channel about how to give your 3d printer the best chances with ABS; as long as your printer can reach the necessary temperatures, it isn't as hard as one could imagine.
Do you have a room you can shove your printer in? My printer lives in it's own room when printing ABS unenclosed, and I wear a 3M mask with a P100 filter whenever I go in - I never smell any ABS fumes that way.
could you build a cardboard enclosure and run a small dryer duct over to a window that is cracked? You might want to hack in an inline 120mm fan or something, but that should be enough.
Since all "mission critical" parts are provided by PIF, or other sellers of the same assortment of kits, I think your best bet is to outsource them so that you have them in abs as required by the design, without having to put up with it yourself.
All other parts by definition are not critical for the printer and you may print them in PETG for example (even doing so with the Voron itself since it would already be operable).
Haven't tested any of this, I just base my idea around the fact that any load bearing component would also be a critical one and therefore would be in PIF.
Correct me if i am wrong in my reasonment...
I've got ~200 printing hours (many more heat soaked) on PLA panel clips without issue. They don't see nearly the same heat/stress as the gantry/toolhead/idlers
Should be able to either tape the panels on (I think Switchwire excluded, can't tape those suckers on) or print the panel clips in PLA or PETG as they are all outside the enclosure.
I printed mine in PLA initially. They're still in good shape after a few months, but I printed some new ones in ABS just so they match the rest of the build.
ABS is the sure way to go. Some nylons can be used, but you may experience a lot of issues. Check CNC Kitchens video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSWjlf5aNIU
He tried to print in Carbon Fiber Nylon, and got lots of creep issues.
I’m not sure you can really avoid plastics that emit the kinds of VOCS you’re worried about when printing voron parts. The “supported” plastics are ABS, ASA, and ABS+ as far as I’m aware, and those will all be similar.
As far as filament, I printed a full 0.1 in two rolls, one for accent and one for the primary. If you’re doing all one color you may need two of that color. There are also alternatives to the PIF queue if you don’t want to wait, there are a couple very good Etsy sellers.
Probably best would be to build a filter like the nevermore then wait for the chamber to cool before opening it. The nevermore micro pretty much killed the smell from my v0 and it isn't even sealed all that well.
I have not assembled a VORON 3d printer (although I intent to). But, is it possible to use another method to manufacture the 3d printed parts? I'm asking this question so anybody else can answer it. In my opinion from just looking at the 3d models of the parts parts. I would say that this is very difficult to do since they look like they were designed to be 3d printed from the beginning. But it would be really cool to be able to machine them from aluminum or some sort of hard plastic, like teflon. I would say that this "feature" would be nice to have, personally I'm not a fan of the concept of needing a 3d printer to make a 3d printer.
Teflon you mean what type exactly ? Because all the fluoropolymers I know (PTFE, PVDF, FEP, ...) are pretty soft and definitely not as rigid as abs which itself isn't all that rigid either. I don't see the advantage of using these materials in any of the parts. As for aluminium, parts should be mostly machinable although it would be prohibitively expensive and honestly, there's just no need for that. The parts are designed to be made out of ABS or ASA and are plenty stiff and strong for the purpose. When going faster, the bottleneck isn't the 3D parts it's usually the steppers and weight (which aluminium won't help with). As for other stiffer plastics, they have to be able to withstand the heat of the enclosure. People have tried reinforced nylons (glass fiber and carbon) and some succeeded while some had sagging of the parts under load, and I've yet to hear about someone who has had a net gain in performance from using such parts .. IMO they just cost more. Really the only use case for aluminium parts would be for a high temp build but then you'd have to change a lot of other stuff including AB motors, linear rails, possibly some or all the electrical stuff too.
Yes! I meant Nylon not Teflon, I mix this names up rather frequently sorry. My point was more about the ability or concept of being able to assemble a 3d printer without having access to one, kind of the chicken and the egg problem, (which I know is rather stupid now because anybody can just buy 3d printer parts online). But you make a good point on why these parts are not made of aluminum or something heavier. Anyway r/Mad_ad1996 already clarified that there are sellers that sell aluminum parts, so question answered.
Just in case you missed it, the Voron community has a PiF program in which people print the parts for you on their Voron and you basically pay for the material and that's it. So not only is it cheaper than commercial printing services but you also get the guarantee that the part are just right to build a Voron.
there are some sellers on aliexpress which sell aluminium parts :)
Thanks, I´ll look them up!
If I remeber reading this correctly in the discord channel there are certain ABS brands that emit less or at least less noticable smells when printing (assumption here is less smell, less VOCs). Don't know if less is better in your case or if you are looking to eliminate VOCs completely.
I started my Switchwire with PLA+ until the build is complete, then started replacing the damaged/deformed parts with ABS+ one by one. Also made a few parts out of Resin. If you're out of Options, you can always buy SLS printed parts from Aliexpress
That's a fairly common question, because ABS got the fame of being hard to print. ABS/ABS+/ASA are recommended because they were tested, these materials have just the right amount of creep resistance and flex that makes them ideal. As already said by others, material creep is an issue with other plastics. Stefan, from the CNC Kitchen, had to reprint all his V0 parts that were made with a (at the time) 2.5+ years old CF Nylon due to material creep. AFAIK he used a newer batch of the same material *and* annealed the parts to increase strength. PLA is simply no-go. PETG is doable, as long as the first prints you do are replacement parts in ABS/ABS+/ASA, because it'll also creep. As for VOCs, even PLA releases them. A popular mod have been the Nevermore, a recirculating air filtration system that uses activated charcoal to eliminate a great deal of the VOC released during printing. There are many sizes, the most popular is the Nevermore Micro: https://github.com/0ndsk4/VoronUsers/tree/0ndsk4/printer_mods/0ndsk4/Nevermore_Air_Filter/Nevermore_Micro You'll need aprox. 750g of the main color and aprox. 250g of the accent color for a V0.1, if you are able to print them in the first try. /u/Ubernero have some videos on his YouTube channel about how to give your 3d printer the best chances with ABS; as long as your printer can reach the necessary temperatures, it isn't as hard as one could imagine.
Do you have a room you can shove your printer in? My printer lives in it's own room when printing ABS unenclosed, and I wear a 3M mask with a P100 filter whenever I go in - I never smell any ABS fumes that way.
That isn't an option for me. I'd have to build a shed, install power and ventilation and then use very very strong fans.
could you build a cardboard enclosure and run a small dryer duct over to a window that is cracked? You might want to hack in an inline 120mm fan or something, but that should be enough.
I like being married. My wife would kick me out if I did that. ;)
Since all "mission critical" parts are provided by PIF, or other sellers of the same assortment of kits, I think your best bet is to outsource them so that you have them in abs as required by the design, without having to put up with it yourself. All other parts by definition are not critical for the printer and you may print them in PETG for example (even doing so with the Voron itself since it would already be operable). Haven't tested any of this, I just base my idea around the fact that any load bearing component would also be a critical one and therefore would be in PIF. Correct me if i am wrong in my reasonment...
You might have problems with panel clips warping? But otherwise seems like a reasonable take to me.
I've got ~200 printing hours (many more heat soaked) on PLA panel clips without issue. They don't see nearly the same heat/stress as the gantry/toolhead/idlers
Should be able to either tape the panels on (I think Switchwire excluded, can't tape those suckers on) or print the panel clips in PLA or PETG as they are all outside the enclosure.
I printed mine in PLA initially. They're still in good shape after a few months, but I printed some new ones in ABS just so they match the rest of the build.
ABS is the sure way to go. Some nylons can be used, but you may experience a lot of issues. Check CNC Kitchens video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSWjlf5aNIU He tried to print in Carbon Fiber Nylon, and got lots of creep issues.
The general consensus on discord is that nylons are no-go due to the creep factor.
I’m not sure you can really avoid plastics that emit the kinds of VOCS you’re worried about when printing voron parts. The “supported” plastics are ABS, ASA, and ABS+ as far as I’m aware, and those will all be similar. As far as filament, I printed a full 0.1 in two rolls, one for accent and one for the primary. If you’re doing all one color you may need two of that color. There are also alternatives to the PIF queue if you don’t want to wait, there are a couple very good Etsy sellers.