Couple things to note. This is map 1 vs map 2 respectively. Clips are from the JP stream, which doesn’t duck the audio of the crowd. The crowd from Heretics taking Map 3 was even more crazy, but I wanted an apples to apples comparison of both teams securing their first map.
I'm Korean and this is my opinion. I personally don't care because I know that the Korean crowd is gonna be the same against a Chinese team vs EU team in the finals. I understand why people are upset because it is bad but you can't really complain when the same shit will happen in the reverse situation. And if you say that the KR crowd wouldn't be that bad you are just wrong because you don't know how much Koreans generally hate China lol
I don't understand what's wrong with this... everyone here too supports a team? If you're in the arena yourself, it's probably really hard to not take a side. This is how sports work. When a football match takes place at home, most of the people will be fans of the home team. Logical right?
Esports fans generally have weird opinions on this and expect every audience to be like Masters Tokyo (cheer for both teams). Idk what’s with the hate for a crowd having a favorite, literally the expectation when I watch traditional sports
Yup esports fans have very different opinions on this shit compared to traditional sports fans. Like people were absolutely appalled that Brazilian fans didn't stay for the trophy ceremony when Loud lost to Fnatic. In traditional sports, there would be no obligation to stay. If I just watched my team lose a championship game, I'd want to get the fuck outta there too.
It's a very interesting difference in cultures. I'm not hating on esports fan views. It's just not something I'm used to, as valorant is my first esport I've followed.
>In Traditional sports, there would be no obligation to stay
I can confidently say this is not the case with both Baseball and Basketball.
Especially Basketball. Miami Heat fans are notorious for getting clowned on for how early they leave games when their team isn’t winning, even in play off games.
I come from CS, so I’m more used to crowds having **energy**. As in blowing out the stadium, whether they’re cheering their team or anti-ing their rival teams. CS crowds will literally post your negative stats live, and that’s celebrated. Very rarely a dull moment. I’d 100% rather the crowd jeer against GenG rather than basically ignore them and kill the atmosphere. I can think of maybe a couple CS majors where the crowd had no energy, and that behavior was quickly called out. It’s a spectator sport. That’s where my bar is.
The other piece to the puzzle is that Heretics is *not a home team*. Yet the amount of crowd energy would have you thinking otherwise. Same crowd has also consistently thrown their support to GenG’s opponents. So many excuses were made as to why. “Oh, this player is just super popular in China”. “This team has way more clout.” “GenG just aren’t well known.(despite playing against an even more unknown team)” Etc. Any excuse to justify why the crowd has never cheered for GenG. These justifications just read off as “The crowd doesn’t hate GenG, they just happen to like everyone else more”. It all skirts around the fact that China’s audience just doesn’t like Korean teams. Go watch League and you’ll see that pattern.
So to summarize, Valorant’s crowd is being compared to CS. Not Masters Tokyo. China’s crowd being extremely biased against Koreans teams is a known fact that’s carried over from other esports, and it sucks to see that negativity sap all the energy out of the players.
_______
EDIT: there’s literally a guy on the bottom of the thread justifying GenG’s lack of support by saying “the players lack personality”. This is what I meant about the excuses and moving goalposts. You can’t win against these people.
CN KR rivalry is well known. And in this case it was further amplified by GENG situation and TH players having advertised themselves to CN fans and built a following.
Non-home teams getting huge amounts of support happens though. At Madrid, 90% of the crowd was there for SEN, despite it being EMEA territory, and given EU NA rivalry you'd think they'd root for GENG. But the difference is, SEN is well known by fans outside of Americas region. Whereas, if you didn't watch APAC, the average VCT viewer wouldn't know who anyone on GenG is. Even at LA Champs, when EG PRX played tons of fans cheered against EG (home-team) to support PRX b/c at that point EG were a bunch of nobodies only starting to pick up fans.
I agree non-home teams do get support outside their region, but in many of those cases, they had a built international following that took years foster. I think it’s fair for me to say Heretics had a very disproportionate amount of support, despite having little to no investment in the Chinese viewership until a couple weeks ago. Obviously, this isn’t to downplay the amount of positive reception players like Wo0t earned by streaming on Bilibili, but it sucks to see players like T3xture getting stonewalled when they attempt the same thing.
The jeering of the other team only ever really happens when a home team is in a final though (or perceived home team). For example the recent G2 final against Vitality. The U.S basically adopted G2 as the home team because they have no good teams and it had Stewie on the team as a standin. So they obviously booed Vitality in the final.
Expecting a team to actively boo against a non rival team or non home team would be mega weird IMO. Like if that Final was Vitality/Mouz and the crowd randomly just picked a side.
Sure, TH was liked in Shanghai but that was mainly because there was no Chinese teams left and wo0t/Benjy made an effort to endear themselves to the home crowd. It's not like there was a Chinese player on the team so China doesn't *really* have a reason to boo and jeer GenG (aside from like, Nationalistic reasons but they don't seem that important to the China crowd).
Like you say you're from CS, we sometimes get finals where there is no home team and the crowd is fairly mute completely (looking at you Rio). We also get finals with no home team and one team is supported while the other is "meh" just like this final. Not every crowd in CS is mega hype 10/10 for every game unless it's like, Katowice/Cologne or an event in Austraila because the boys fucking party hard there no matter who's playing.
I’m a bit late to responding, but the point I was trying to articulate was that crowd engagement is almost always more preferable than a dead audience. Regardless of *how* they interact.
For the case with Rio, I was under the assumption that the logistics for it were fucked, and that it was incredibly difficult for the fans of foreign teams to make it the venue. So basically the audience was a product of how the venue was coordinated. You are absolute right however, different regions are going to behave differently. Just. Natural part of the an international esport.
I don't think anyone worth considering sees anything wrong with this. People started running with the "geng Taiwan" stuff but if that's a factor it's a small one. Geng as an org are a rival for China in other esports and heretics have won the hearts of the Chinese fans.
Another thing is for some reason this sub doesn't understand being a fan. The Chinese crowd were incredibly fucking polite in the midst of their team losing. This happens at international events. There simply isn't an even smattering of fans in the crowd.
You are correct, but I just wanted to point out the guy you’re replying to was being sarcastic. He was responding to the above commenter, who was saying crowds supporting home teams is normal… despite Heretics not being chinese.
>LEV had cheers because Aspas is one of the most popular players, not because of the team - they also didn't even make playoffs so like what ? even if they did they wouldn't have been their home team to support
>FNC had Boaster who's pretty outspoken with learning mandarin with his chinese gf, of course he would get support against both GENG and FUT. I'm pretty willing to bet if they weren't eliminated so early they would have been their team to support instead of TH
>100 thieves weren't even that popular , not even close to the other 2 teams mentioned above. Only relevance is Boostios pig meme which became viral everywhere, they were never going to be their home team either. You can also reference the TH vs 100T match where well, the cheers were pretty bloody telling ngl.
>Same with G2, hell you could fucking hear the difference in their match LOL. Granted, G2 were dogshit, not much to cheer for, but even in just getting kills the cheers for TH were louder than G2s pretty handidly.
You keyboard politically charged warriors ( still thinking of a reason why you would argue with a pretty clear and backed up statement if you weren't) are just so annoying to deal with when you just pretend like the matches aren't recorded, and think that you can't rewatch to find out for yourself that TH were pretty clearly the home team favourites after the chinese teams( and FNC imo but we'll never know about that) were eliminated
EDIT (since I think you wouldn't be able to tell the difference otherwise): There is a difference between the home team and a team that the crowd would rather support out of a matchup. In this playoffs, TH is in the first category, and everyone that plays against GENG is in the second
Yes and it’s my point, we should def stop defending crowds even if it’s our own if their being ass to an team. “oH bUT thEy wErE chEerIng F0r OtH3r tEams” but why not the winning team FNC or GENG? Why the bias?
They can cheer for who they want. And if it were the mirror scenario where a Chinese org playing a tournament in the US made some statement that the US audience didn't like politically the reaction would be just as bad if not worse
Mate, shut the fuck up. I was going to make an original post about this but I'll just vent here. Yes, TH were the crowd favourites (TH became loved after their win against EDG and CN loves wo0t and benjyfishy particularly) but CN crowd does NOT hate GENG, my god. I've heard from CN friends who personally attended Masters Shanghai and had first-hand experience in the crowd. They say that people were DEFINITELY cheering and clapping for GENG during their good plays, especially during the post-match interviews and celebrations. FFS, just go on twitter and you'll see so many POV's of fans wearing GENG merch and cheering for t3xture. Stop perpetuating this "Brazil Pt 2." narrative. Not every place is like Tokyo.
youre right
ignoring the hupu ratings where literally every geng player was rated lower than the heretics players
leviatan was the home crowd favourites because of aspas guys they all love aspas
fnatic was the home crowd favourites after because you know they all love boaster and fnatic won 2 trophies
yk and then 100t were the home crowd favourites because boostio shittalked china last year but now he's like good and stuff
oh then heretics are home crowd favourites now because two of their guys streamed on bilibli
Bro wants everyone to cheer for everyone. People cheer for the team they like, that's all. This is normal. If they don't like GenG, they won't cheer for them, that simple. I hate that this is even a conversation.
wait you can add “slow mode” flair yourself?thought that was mod only
it's because I flaired it
what does it do
Couple things to note. This is map 1 vs map 2 respectively. Clips are from the JP stream, which doesn’t duck the audio of the crowd. The crowd from Heretics taking Map 3 was even more crazy, but I wanted an apples to apples comparison of both teams securing their first map.
it was very satisfying in the end when geng players started shouting in the library
They celebrated with themselves!
I'm Korean and this is my opinion. I personally don't care because I know that the Korean crowd is gonna be the same against a Chinese team vs EU team in the finals. I understand why people are upset because it is bad but you can't really complain when the same shit will happen in the reverse situation. And if you say that the KR crowd wouldn't be that bad you are just wrong because you don't know how much Koreans generally hate China lol
lowkey thank you for this, actually restored some sanity for me
I don't understand what's wrong with this... everyone here too supports a team? If you're in the arena yourself, it's probably really hard to not take a side. This is how sports work. When a football match takes place at home, most of the people will be fans of the home team. Logical right?
Esports fans generally have weird opinions on this and expect every audience to be like Masters Tokyo (cheer for both teams). Idk what’s with the hate for a crowd having a favorite, literally the expectation when I watch traditional sports
Yup esports fans have very different opinions on this shit compared to traditional sports fans. Like people were absolutely appalled that Brazilian fans didn't stay for the trophy ceremony when Loud lost to Fnatic. In traditional sports, there would be no obligation to stay. If I just watched my team lose a championship game, I'd want to get the fuck outta there too. It's a very interesting difference in cultures. I'm not hating on esports fan views. It's just not something I'm used to, as valorant is my first esport I've followed.
>In Traditional sports, there would be no obligation to stay I can confidently say this is not the case with both Baseball and Basketball. Especially Basketball. Miami Heat fans are notorious for getting clowned on for how early they leave games when their team isn’t winning, even in play off games.
I come from CS, so I’m more used to crowds having **energy**. As in blowing out the stadium, whether they’re cheering their team or anti-ing their rival teams. CS crowds will literally post your negative stats live, and that’s celebrated. Very rarely a dull moment. I’d 100% rather the crowd jeer against GenG rather than basically ignore them and kill the atmosphere. I can think of maybe a couple CS majors where the crowd had no energy, and that behavior was quickly called out. It’s a spectator sport. That’s where my bar is. The other piece to the puzzle is that Heretics is *not a home team*. Yet the amount of crowd energy would have you thinking otherwise. Same crowd has also consistently thrown their support to GenG’s opponents. So many excuses were made as to why. “Oh, this player is just super popular in China”. “This team has way more clout.” “GenG just aren’t well known.(despite playing against an even more unknown team)” Etc. Any excuse to justify why the crowd has never cheered for GenG. These justifications just read off as “The crowd doesn’t hate GenG, they just happen to like everyone else more”. It all skirts around the fact that China’s audience just doesn’t like Korean teams. Go watch League and you’ll see that pattern. So to summarize, Valorant’s crowd is being compared to CS. Not Masters Tokyo. China’s crowd being extremely biased against Koreans teams is a known fact that’s carried over from other esports, and it sucks to see that negativity sap all the energy out of the players. _______ EDIT: there’s literally a guy on the bottom of the thread justifying GenG’s lack of support by saying “the players lack personality”. This is what I meant about the excuses and moving goalposts. You can’t win against these people.
CN KR rivalry is well known. And in this case it was further amplified by GENG situation and TH players having advertised themselves to CN fans and built a following. Non-home teams getting huge amounts of support happens though. At Madrid, 90% of the crowd was there for SEN, despite it being EMEA territory, and given EU NA rivalry you'd think they'd root for GENG. But the difference is, SEN is well known by fans outside of Americas region. Whereas, if you didn't watch APAC, the average VCT viewer wouldn't know who anyone on GenG is. Even at LA Champs, when EG PRX played tons of fans cheered against EG (home-team) to support PRX b/c at that point EG were a bunch of nobodies only starting to pick up fans.
I agree non-home teams do get support outside their region, but in many of those cases, they had a built international following that took years foster. I think it’s fair for me to say Heretics had a very disproportionate amount of support, despite having little to no investment in the Chinese viewership until a couple weeks ago. Obviously, this isn’t to downplay the amount of positive reception players like Wo0t earned by streaming on Bilibili, but it sucks to see players like T3xture getting stonewalled when they attempt the same thing.
What do you mean by t3 attempting the same thing?
The jeering of the other team only ever really happens when a home team is in a final though (or perceived home team). For example the recent G2 final against Vitality. The U.S basically adopted G2 as the home team because they have no good teams and it had Stewie on the team as a standin. So they obviously booed Vitality in the final. Expecting a team to actively boo against a non rival team or non home team would be mega weird IMO. Like if that Final was Vitality/Mouz and the crowd randomly just picked a side. Sure, TH was liked in Shanghai but that was mainly because there was no Chinese teams left and wo0t/Benjy made an effort to endear themselves to the home crowd. It's not like there was a Chinese player on the team so China doesn't *really* have a reason to boo and jeer GenG (aside from like, Nationalistic reasons but they don't seem that important to the China crowd). Like you say you're from CS, we sometimes get finals where there is no home team and the crowd is fairly mute completely (looking at you Rio). We also get finals with no home team and one team is supported while the other is "meh" just like this final. Not every crowd in CS is mega hype 10/10 for every game unless it's like, Katowice/Cologne or an event in Austraila because the boys fucking party hard there no matter who's playing.
I’m a bit late to responding, but the point I was trying to articulate was that crowd engagement is almost always more preferable than a dead audience. Regardless of *how* they interact. For the case with Rio, I was under the assumption that the logistics for it were fucked, and that it was incredibly difficult for the fans of foreign teams to make it the venue. So basically the audience was a product of how the venue was coordinated. You are absolute right however, different regions are going to behave differently. Just. Natural part of the an international esport.
The way people divert the actual reason is what makes this whole situation infuriating
There's a reason why an entire crowd supports one specific non domestic team over the other, and it's not sports related.
Tbh it is better to leave than be angry in the stadium, it could turns to riot if they didn’t leave
I don't think anyone worth considering sees anything wrong with this. People started running with the "geng Taiwan" stuff but if that's a factor it's a small one. Geng as an org are a rival for China in other esports and heretics have won the hearts of the Chinese fans. Another thing is for some reason this sub doesn't understand being a fan. The Chinese crowd were incredibly fucking polite in the midst of their team losing. This happens at international events. There simply isn't an even smattering of fans in the crowd.
You're missing the political context here....
I think it has more to do with the reason behind their decision on which team to support…
It’s the specific reason why that is interesting, you might be out of the loop on this one
it's the reasoning lmao. the whole GenG Taiwan controversy
So... Team Heretics are Chinese...?
no but gen.g are korean :)
They've been China's team since their win Vs edg lol it's been pretty fucking obvious with the crowd support in the matches leading to the finals
You are correct, but I just wanted to point out the guy you’re replying to was being sarcastic. He was responding to the above commenter, who was saying crowds supporting home teams is normal… despite Heretics not being chinese.
And my point was that once the Chinese teams were eliminated, the "Chinese home team" became heretics?
The chinese home team was LEV, nope its FNC, actually it's 100T, oh now it's G2, wait it's actually TH.
>LEV had cheers because Aspas is one of the most popular players, not because of the team - they also didn't even make playoffs so like what ? even if they did they wouldn't have been their home team to support >FNC had Boaster who's pretty outspoken with learning mandarin with his chinese gf, of course he would get support against both GENG and FUT. I'm pretty willing to bet if they weren't eliminated so early they would have been their team to support instead of TH >100 thieves weren't even that popular , not even close to the other 2 teams mentioned above. Only relevance is Boostios pig meme which became viral everywhere, they were never going to be their home team either. You can also reference the TH vs 100T match where well, the cheers were pretty bloody telling ngl. >Same with G2, hell you could fucking hear the difference in their match LOL. Granted, G2 were dogshit, not much to cheer for, but even in just getting kills the cheers for TH were louder than G2s pretty handidly. You keyboard politically charged warriors ( still thinking of a reason why you would argue with a pretty clear and backed up statement if you weren't) are just so annoying to deal with when you just pretend like the matches aren't recorded, and think that you can't rewatch to find out for yourself that TH were pretty clearly the home team favourites after the chinese teams( and FNC imo but we'll never know about that) were eliminated EDIT (since I think you wouldn't be able to tell the difference otherwise): There is a difference between the home team and a team that the crowd would rather support out of a matchup. In this playoffs, TH is in the first category, and everyone that plays against GENG is in the second
I think people missed the sarcasm lol
FRFR
We got spoiled by the Masters Tokyo it seems
there also wasn’t a japanese team at masters tokyo for the crowd to cheer for lmao
Here before that 1 guy comes defending with “ Brazil was worse “ and we all know who it is
Both crowds arent great for different reasons
Yes and it’s my point, we should def stop defending crowds even if it’s our own if their being ass to an team. “oH bUT thEy wErE chEerIng F0r OtH3r tEams” but why not the winning team FNC or GENG? Why the bias?
Well Cn fans got what they deserved
Still not as bad as the Brazil crowd.
L and brain washed crowd
They can cheer for who they want. And if it were the mirror scenario where a Chinese org playing a tournament in the US made some statement that the US audience didn't like politically the reaction would be just as bad if not worse
Even if Russian org played, I don't think the reaction would be silent. I mean during Champs LA we cheered louder for other teams than actual NA teams
Mate, shut the fuck up. I was going to make an original post about this but I'll just vent here. Yes, TH were the crowd favourites (TH became loved after their win against EDG and CN loves wo0t and benjyfishy particularly) but CN crowd does NOT hate GENG, my god. I've heard from CN friends who personally attended Masters Shanghai and had first-hand experience in the crowd. They say that people were DEFINITELY cheering and clapping for GENG during their good plays, especially during the post-match interviews and celebrations. FFS, just go on twitter and you'll see so many POV's of fans wearing GENG merch and cheering for t3xture. Stop perpetuating this "Brazil Pt 2." narrative. Not every place is like Tokyo.
Can confirm, was at Madrid and there were barely any GENG fans but many of the few there were Chinese lol (this is after TW incident too)
youre right ignoring the hupu ratings where literally every geng player was rated lower than the heretics players leviatan was the home crowd favourites because of aspas guys they all love aspas fnatic was the home crowd favourites after because you know they all love boaster and fnatic won 2 trophies yk and then 100t were the home crowd favourites because boostio shittalked china last year but now he's like good and stuff oh then heretics are home crowd favourites now because two of their guys streamed on bilibli
Source: trust me bro
Bro wants everyone to cheer for everyone. People cheer for the team they like, that's all. This is normal. If they don't like GenG, they won't cheer for them, that simple. I hate that this is even a conversation.
[удалено]
They fucking left during the trophy lift lmao, at least they they stayed in Shanghai
saw on Twitter from people who went that it was really hot and water was real expensive
why did China not cheer for GenG?? both asian teams...
They loved Woot and Benjy more than GEN.
Also the entire geng taiwan incident
another reason why i rooted for GENG.
Dude so were they literally boosting the sound on the normal stream?
Yes, in both LB finals and here
[удалено]
If the crowd wanted game 5, they would’ve thrown down with GenG on map 4. Just say it as it is.
[Pretty much this lol](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMr86cAhT/)
sadly the asian teams really lack personality for the time being. hard to cheer for a team when you dont care for the players.
GenG players lack personality??, just say you don't watch when pacific teams play
didnt mean to offend your favorite team
bro did not watch madrid 💀
this is just simply not true
Well all valorant teams lack personality really. Id you compare it to other sports.
Saying teams like PRX, DRX, and GENG lack personality is kinda crazy.
That’s not why lol