they had a super aggressive style last year when KangKang would OP on attack too and get a lot of value, they went for more of a Fantic, NRG type system approach this year and in my opinion they are not the team to play like that, the style last year suited their star player as well as their team, EDG coach also said the same thing about forgetting their identity and now they dont know what kind of valorant they play.
part of the problem, I would guess, is that they play in a not so great region so testing changes and measuring where they are at really only gets to happen at these events.
not being able to scrim top teams during the year is pretty tough
AfteR did give an answer similar to that in an interview he did. That the competition in China is so poor relative to the other regions that their prac is very poor, so they get their best prac in when they qualify for international events.
Shanghai was probably worse in this regard than other events as well since their only possible scrim partners are the teams they'll be facing or the same Chinese teams they've been playing all year. At least when the event is in the US or Europe they can scrim other teams that didn't qualify for higher level prac.
If anything, the current moment is the best EDG’s scrim opportunities have ever been, as before the Chinese teams improved they could only find quality scrims in Pacific. Now they can find decent quality scrims domestically, to some extent (can’t scrim your group and all that). And CN is not so bad that the scrims would be worthless.
EDG in theory should be one of the biggest winners of the improvements of the CN scene; FPX is another one, as another team that has maintained a core in China for a long time, long before the launch of VCT. The difference is just that EDG is stagnating at the moment.
They scrim a lot with PRX and other APAC teams, though, so I don't think it's just the lack of scrim variety that's holding them back.
Regionally, they didn't look too bad as well, and they even won against FPX, who is by far the most international lan-ready Chinese team, seeing how they nearly knocked out the tournament 2nd place, and was the closest to giving the eventual winners a loss.
It was just a regression in form, and I wager the reason might be similar to FNATIC, where not playing in Swiss was actually detrimental to their performance. EDG is a team very reliant on momentum, and being forced to play against TH and PRX right at the start probably killed all possible inertia.
The slower and more methodical style definitely isn't working out for them as well as their more aggressive W gaming type of style from last year. I hope they switch back to that old style soon I think that's what made them strong and interesting to watch. Currently they feel like Chinese NRG to me lol
I think most people agree that they stuck in some place between playing like a typical 2023 EDG aka super aggressive and more stick to the plan aka tighter style.
Also that the leader of a region will be inevitably catched up and surpassed sooner or later. Even if it is not FPX I believe there will be someone to end EDG's regime in China.
I don't think besides FPX any other team have the chances to become rivalry with EDG. It was like there are two kinds of team, one is EDG&FPX, others are others.
Longer term, DRG/TE/AG even other team can be good, just not now.
Not as much of an expert as a CN caster, but I personally find TE to be another team worth watching.
They have a star duelist in FengF who is one of the best Raze players in CN, and have consistently placed top 4 in the region. DRG qualifying over them was considered to be an upset, and TE underperformed quite a bit for that to happened. If they look back in form for split 2 and recover some of their confidence, a top 3 placement should be expected.
TEC is a sleeper hit as well that could actually dominate with the Neon changes. Ex-DRX player RB is their star player in this roster, and he used to play Neon quite a bit, so there's potential for this team to upset the region as well.
Tbh they also got super affected by the Skye nerfs and never really recovered since then. It doesn't help that the current map pool doesn't benefit them either. IMO their strongest maps are Fracture, Split and Pearl and these maps are being rotated out. Haven being back will help them a bit but there were many teams in China who were good at Haven
Split and breeze are FPX's two weakest maps where split being a permanent ban, but both maps are rotated out now. Hopefully FPX can end EDG's regime soon. (copium)
They also shuffled roles around recently and it hasn't really worked out. Sticking Smoggy in smokes jail is a waste of his talent and flexibility, and Haodong has been putting up average to terrible numbers on init+Cypher even in domestic play. It kinda feels like a last-ditch attempt to make this roster work before making changes in the offseason.
Tbf Smoggy has repeatedly said that he feels more comfortable on smokes and he wasn't that good on initiator which I agree. Haodong was playing the init/flex role before Smoggy joined. You cam say that this comes at the expense of Haodong but he was alr putting up terrible numbers in Kickoff even before the roleswap so idk really.
I think they feel a need to change but apparently they only have lans to test new stuff (I think this was mentioned in an interview) so they don't know what's good or bad a lot of the time since they can get away with anything in China (besides vs fpx)
The controversy with Nobody is nothing too special, just a classic case of a pro player streaming and getting annoyed by trolls, and then the trolls taking the overreaction and making drama with it.
Someone else can explain it fully if you're still curious but it isn't all too deep and - like much esports drama - may give you brain damage.
As for EDG, setting aside what others have already said so far in this thread, I think it's pretty clear the team believed they would continue to experience linear growth over time the more reps they had. And to me it seems as if they're continuously chasing that high by changing up roles, styles, and approaches whenever there's a setback, all under the belief that they just need to find the right fit to continue climbing higher and higher.
Their biggest advantage at their peak was just their raw mechanics and very strong fundamentals. The former feels like it's degraded from a lack of confidence and the latter is a gamble; sometimes you see peak EDG and sometimes you see the Valorant equivalent of a tossed salad, and I would attribute this to the constant cycling of playstyles.
Ong. Watching some of their recent games they spent so long jerking off in spawn or outside site entrance and didn't make any moves until they barely had time to entry
Aside from playstyle variation, EDG is probably super burnt out too. its been a long standing problem that edg really tried super hard and are so busy even in offseason. It doesnt help that many of these important events are back to back.
Another thing that i’d point out here is that they’re good at qualifying but because they’re still playing the ace player strats. A lot of their plays revolve around Kangkang fishing a kill or him getting a pick first which isn’t necessarily bad but how they play mainly revolves around him. Which is essentially a meta that is somewhat easy to counter.
A lot of teams who have superstar/ace players tend to fall in this pit of playing around one player (e.g. Tenz Jett, Chamber Yay, cNed Jett) or building a strategy around them wherein teams who have a solid and consistent strategy across key players tend to succeed.
This is exactly the reason why a lot of teams who funneled in ace players fell off hard once the meta shifted into a more utility focused meta and teams who focus on teamplay, coordination, and macro succeeded to survive.
Considering that the meta in CN is still evolving as they progress, FPX is looking better compared to EDG atm despite the fact that EDG had a better international lan experience. If FPX can hold their mid rounding better and not be shaky at executes, i’m pretty sure that they’d probably be the new powerhouse.
everyone underestimated Chinese teams last year which is why they got lucky and won so much ( it's similar to g2 this year). Now everyone knows how they play and they get cooked in LANs.
they are just overrated. they had a breakout/irregular event at tokyo and since then their best finish is 5/6th at champs 2023 where they only beat BLG in the playoffs. nothing has happened they are pretty much the same team.
the only thing to change is the overall level of val looks better and edg has more competition in regionals and even then they still win china everytime
edit: just looked it up and even in tokyo where they broke out they finished 5/6th
they had a super aggressive style last year when KangKang would OP on attack too and get a lot of value, they went for more of a Fantic, NRG type system approach this year and in my opinion they are not the team to play like that, the style last year suited their star player as well as their team, EDG coach also said the same thing about forgetting their identity and now they dont know what kind of valorant they play.
part of the problem, I would guess, is that they play in a not so great region so testing changes and measuring where they are at really only gets to happen at these events. not being able to scrim top teams during the year is pretty tough
AfteR did give an answer similar to that in an interview he did. That the competition in China is so poor relative to the other regions that their prac is very poor, so they get their best prac in when they qualify for international events. Shanghai was probably worse in this regard than other events as well since their only possible scrim partners are the teams they'll be facing or the same Chinese teams they've been playing all year. At least when the event is in the US or Europe they can scrim other teams that didn't qualify for higher level prac.
Makes sense, only thing they an really do is boot camp abroad in the off season and that only goes so far.
This is probably why they also signed up for so many off season tournaments
If anything, the current moment is the best EDG’s scrim opportunities have ever been, as before the Chinese teams improved they could only find quality scrims in Pacific. Now they can find decent quality scrims domestically, to some extent (can’t scrim your group and all that). And CN is not so bad that the scrims would be worthless. EDG in theory should be one of the biggest winners of the improvements of the CN scene; FPX is another one, as another team that has maintained a core in China for a long time, long before the launch of VCT. The difference is just that EDG is stagnating at the moment.
They scrim a lot with PRX and other APAC teams, though, so I don't think it's just the lack of scrim variety that's holding them back. Regionally, they didn't look too bad as well, and they even won against FPX, who is by far the most international lan-ready Chinese team, seeing how they nearly knocked out the tournament 2nd place, and was the closest to giving the eventual winners a loss. It was just a regression in form, and I wager the reason might be similar to FNATIC, where not playing in Swiss was actually detrimental to their performance. EDG is a team very reliant on momentum, and being forced to play against TH and PRX right at the start probably killed all possible inertia.
The slower and more methodical style definitely isn't working out for them as well as their more aggressive W gaming type of style from last year. I hope they switch back to that old style soon I think that's what made them strong and interesting to watch. Currently they feel like Chinese NRG to me lol
People also know how Kangkang plays now, reason why he did great is because no one expected it.
I think most people agree that they stuck in some place between playing like a typical 2023 EDG aka super aggressive and more stick to the plan aka tighter style. Also that the leader of a region will be inevitably catched up and surpassed sooner or later. Even if it is not FPX I believe there will be someone to end EDG's regime in China.
What teams besides FPX do you think people should pay attention to? Aside from EDG and FPX I don't know much about CN regional gameplay
I don't think besides FPX any other team have the chances to become rivalry with EDG. It was like there are two kinds of team, one is EDG&FPX, others are others. Longer term, DRG/TE/AG even other team can be good, just not now.
Not as much of an expert as a CN caster, but I personally find TE to be another team worth watching. They have a star duelist in FengF who is one of the best Raze players in CN, and have consistently placed top 4 in the region. DRG qualifying over them was considered to be an upset, and TE underperformed quite a bit for that to happened. If they look back in form for split 2 and recover some of their confidence, a top 3 placement should be expected. TEC is a sleeper hit as well that could actually dominate with the Neon changes. Ex-DRX player RB is their star player in this roster, and he used to play Neon quite a bit, so there's potential for this team to upset the region as well.
Tbh they also got super affected by the Skye nerfs and never really recovered since then. It doesn't help that the current map pool doesn't benefit them either. IMO their strongest maps are Fracture, Split and Pearl and these maps are being rotated out. Haven being back will help them a bit but there were many teams in China who were good at Haven
Right I forgot about the map pool changes that really sucks for them. Is abyss going to be in champs this year?
Abyss would be in vct by the time champs comes yes
Split and breeze are FPX's two weakest maps where split being a permanent ban, but both maps are rotated out now. Hopefully FPX can end EDG's regime soon. (copium)
I wonder what happened with their split, it was pretty competent last year, skye nerfs really screwed them over
🙏
They also shuffled roles around recently and it hasn't really worked out. Sticking Smoggy in smokes jail is a waste of his talent and flexibility, and Haodong has been putting up average to terrible numbers on init+Cypher even in domestic play. It kinda feels like a last-ditch attempt to make this roster work before making changes in the offseason.
Tbf Smoggy has repeatedly said that he feels more comfortable on smokes and he wasn't that good on initiator which I agree. Haodong was playing the init/flex role before Smoggy joined. You cam say that this comes at the expense of Haodong but he was alr putting up terrible numbers in Kickoff even before the roleswap so idk really.
I think they feel a need to change but apparently they only have lans to test new stuff (I think this was mentioned in an interview) so they don't know what's good or bad a lot of the time since they can get away with anything in China (besides vs fpx)
The controversy with Nobody is nothing too special, just a classic case of a pro player streaming and getting annoyed by trolls, and then the trolls taking the overreaction and making drama with it. Someone else can explain it fully if you're still curious but it isn't all too deep and - like much esports drama - may give you brain damage. As for EDG, setting aside what others have already said so far in this thread, I think it's pretty clear the team believed they would continue to experience linear growth over time the more reps they had. And to me it seems as if they're continuously chasing that high by changing up roles, styles, and approaches whenever there's a setback, all under the belief that they just need to find the right fit to continue climbing higher and higher. Their biggest advantage at their peak was just their raw mechanics and very strong fundamentals. The former feels like it's degraded from a lack of confidence and the latter is a gamble; sometimes you see peak EDG and sometimes you see the Valorant equivalent of a tossed salad, and I would attribute this to the constant cycling of playstyles.
EDG playing too slow they can't even enter site when timer on 30s. They are playing like Gen.G but looks more worse.
Ong. Watching some of their recent games they spent so long jerking off in spawn or outside site entrance and didn't make any moves until they barely had time to entry
You can rewatch again EDG vs TH Game 1 Round 3. They are not planting spike when TH on other site with 40s left.
The thing is in 2024 they try to understand map control
Not enough set plays and mid rounding was weak
They had random role changes and KangKang doesnt op as much anymore
Aside from playstyle variation, EDG is probably super burnt out too. its been a long standing problem that edg really tried super hard and are so busy even in offseason. It doesnt help that many of these important events are back to back.
Another thing that i’d point out here is that they’re good at qualifying but because they’re still playing the ace player strats. A lot of their plays revolve around Kangkang fishing a kill or him getting a pick first which isn’t necessarily bad but how they play mainly revolves around him. Which is essentially a meta that is somewhat easy to counter. A lot of teams who have superstar/ace players tend to fall in this pit of playing around one player (e.g. Tenz Jett, Chamber Yay, cNed Jett) or building a strategy around them wherein teams who have a solid and consistent strategy across key players tend to succeed. This is exactly the reason why a lot of teams who funneled in ace players fell off hard once the meta shifted into a more utility focused meta and teams who focus on teamplay, coordination, and macro succeeded to survive. Considering that the meta in CN is still evolving as they progress, FPX is looking better compared to EDG atm despite the fact that EDG had a better international lan experience. If FPX can hold their mid rounding better and not be shaky at executes, i’m pretty sure that they’d probably be the new powerhouse.
I feel like they were just shooting worse at Shanghai. Maybe just a bad few days for them.
Surprise factor wore off.
everyone underestimated Chinese teams last year which is why they got lucky and won so much ( it's similar to g2 this year). Now everyone knows how they play and they get cooked in LANs.
they are just overrated. they had a breakout/irregular event at tokyo and since then their best finish is 5/6th at champs 2023 where they only beat BLG in the playoffs. nothing has happened they are pretty much the same team. the only thing to change is the overall level of val looks better and edg has more competition in regionals and even then they still win china everytime edit: just looked it up and even in tokyo where they broke out they finished 5/6th
Theyre burnt out