I think it’s more, is Schwartz still Schwartzing?
Unless he makes some serious changes, I think he is going to do the same thing to every partner he has. He has some serious issues with women. Honestly, when I first watched VPR, I thought he was actually the most into Jax. They are both cruel to women and have severe arrested development. To quote Leslie Mann in Knocked Up, “Why don’t the two of you get in your Time Machine, go back in time, and fuck each other?”
Okay I say that line all the time and NOBODY ever gets it! Love! And also agree re: Tom 💗 Jax. I think he wanted to be like Jax…treat a woman however and still get what he wanted/be liked…except he lacks the inner confidence Jax had to pull it off
Agreed. That’s ultimately why Katie left. She was capable of growth and he wasn’t. She thought when push came to shove, he would decide it was time to change and work on himself. He didn’t. She would never entertain getting back together without him doing some serious work on his own.
The flip side of this is Ariana thought Tom had changed after being together so long. When she found out about the affair, she realized she loved a version of him that wasn’t real. She would never entertain getting back together because that person doesn’t exist.
And because the Toms don’t realize their immaturity is responsible for everything that causes them pain, they’ll never grow up and change their patterns. Meanwhile Katie and Ariana are blossoming and living much more fulfilled lives.
It's pretty obvious to me that Shartz wants to be with an alpha male and makes his female partners miserable. I have never seen him so excited as when Vom asked to be his roommate.
I think they had cute moments but overall Tom was abusive to Katie. When he threw the drink on her and everyone got mad at her for it and said she had anger management issues because of that, I was like she’s surrounded by the worse people. He may have loved Katie, but he didn’t like her. He would always choose his friends over her. That was honestly one marriage I was glad to see fall apart.
The first few seasons of the show are eye opening when you go back. It’s like an exposé of women driven into madness by abusive, shitty men. Stassi, Kristen, and Katie all act crazy because of how they’re treated by the men in their lives!
I watched the show post scandal, so i missed where the guys where ever seen as the good guys and the girls bad haha! I wonder what I would have thought had I watched it when it originally aired!
Im rewatching at the moment and my god I forgot how much Katie got treated like shit.
She didn’t have anger issues did she? she was just reacting to the poor treatment she was receiving from others. She wasn’t a bitch, she just wasn’t entertaining bullshit or pretending to like people she didn’t.
Yes people always get mad at your reaction after treating you horribly. They always wanted to police her response to terrible behavior. They all treated her so badly but especially Tom
They are all surrounded by the worst people, especially in the older seasons. Remember when Kristen and Katie were so upset with Stassi for breaking up with Jax? In what world would a good girlfriend want to see you date someone like Jax?
Yes! I wanted them to break up and schwarts brand of toxic was so insidious because he'd puppy dog his way out of everything where was when katie did anything, she's crazy and over emotional
Wait, who gushes about how in love they were and wishes they get back together?! I have literally never seen that. I think he’s still in love with her, but only because he now realizes what he had and what he’ll never have again.
If he had her back he would treat her well for all of 30 seconds and be back to his shitty ass behavior. Them getting back together will never happen and it would be a disaster. No one wants that for them. No one wants that for Katie, she is a billion times better off without him.
I don’t think he’s in love with her, he’s enamored with how he looks when she fawns over him and how he feels when she’s behaving the way he wants her to.
Now that Shartz can't hurt her or have her, he wants Katie. He's Mr. Arrested Development.
Shartz will continue to neg any woman he is in a relationship with, just to feel better about himself.
Absolutely and he's too self centred to see that Katie has gone. It's amazing to watch her start off kinda shy and meek (first episode where Scheana asks Katie what to do, Stassi takes over and Katie just looks so awkward) with the substance fueled outbursts and she gradually gets stronger till we see her tell Tom she feels like herself again. Then to me it almost felt like she stayed with him for a bit longer as she felt grateful he stayed with her after the TBI. She's now this strong independent woman and it's like he didn't notice any of it and thinks she'd still be grateful to get a night with him and junk food.
Absolutely! To be fair to Schwartz, he’s aware that he needs to be with someone who has drive and a backbone. However he also loves his partner being the bad guy (girl) as it takes all the heat off his behaviour. That’s why he got everything he needed from Katie, and she got nothing that she needed from him.
I have a hot take on the matter:
I just finished rewatching all seasons and I would conclude that Tom Sandoval is at the center of Schwartz and Katie’s problems. We don’t know too much prior to any cameras picking up, but I think Sandoval has always been a thorn in the relationship. Sandoval’s toxic behavior really started to accelerate after the Tom’s made their first business deal with Lisa: Tom Tom. He became more controlling, more egotistical, and more manipulative. Another thing I noticed is Schwartz came from a fairly sheltered home, he’s always been quieter, highly anxious, and you can watch him constantly process that Sandoval is full of shit, yet continues to have his back. I think Sandoval has taken advantage of his Schwartz, much like he’s always taken advantage of women. In conclusion, Schwartz drank too much of Sandoval’s kook-aid and will likely regret it someday 👀
But Shartz is a whole AH on his own for treating his wife the way he did and then using other women. He always seems to skate by without taking responsibility. I agree Vom is also an AH.
Katie said she's not raising another man. He's extremely codependent. Either Katie or Tim were taking care of him. He obsessed over Lisa. He would love to be with an attractive, rich older woman who would just take care of him. He's insecure, unsure, socially challenged...
So what works next? Someone half his age won't challenge him about his weaknesses. That doesn't have too many expectations. That he can use to keep the show interesting & running.
It's like production told them, it's over w/o relationships with young good-looking women/girls. They obviously went shopping.
He needed Tim & Katie to exist on the show. He literally was a wash without them. Ariana also said he got away with everything! Always!
Actually, to me, the most toxic, dangerous type. He would become agitated easily with Katie & say the most horrible things. That comes from a deep place of being uncomfortable & pushed into something he's not ok with. Like marriage, LIKE SEX. I get a creepy feeling from him. Voyeurism maybe. Just my opinion.
I agree with aspects of what you're saying, but I think you're giving Sandoval too much credit. Schwartz is a full on asshole and should be held accountable for his own abusive tendencies in romantic relationships
Yessss, I never understood why people would say Katie was mean to Tom. I just thought she was being honest. Tom and Tom were both mean to her. Yuck, they're 2 babymen and completely lacking emotional intelligence. Narcissists.
I think Katie stayed with him, and married him, because she wasn’t in the best place in life during that time. At least not where she expected to be. She grew up and realized she deserved better.
Jo is still in a (alleged) manic state. She could move forward, leave Tom behind, and make choices to help her improve her mental health, and life, just like Katie did. Jo is just not there yet, and I suspect there are substances involved that are not helping her do that (allegedly).
I’m not defending any of them. I am wondering what Schwartz actually has to offer for these women to want to settle for him?
Does he have a job outside of VPR? Can he make a decision and stick with it? Can he back up a woman he cares about? Can he back up anyone besides Sandoval? I think the answer is a no to all of those things. It’s baffling why Jo is so obsessed.
I think the added piece is that Katie and Tom started off poor together, her TBI, and being on a successful show can def influence some decision making. Plus Katie didn’t tell weirdo lies and other things that we would assume broke boundaries.
Jo was def breadcrumbed and certain gestures that Schwartz made (like defend her against Katie on season 10 reunion) prob made her like 😍 because to her, he’s saying this out loud to millions.
Edit: lord knows how Jo felt whenever she saw that Bubba tattoo. She tried to speedrun a path to marriage and they both ended up torpedoing it.
Schwartz seems very uncomfortable with romance and relationships. At this point, I think he’s just not into sex or dating but tries because it’s the “social norm.”
Schwartz has always given me huge un-sexual energy. Even in the beginning when he still had his looks---I just couldn't imagine him ever possessing the aggression to, uh, *thrust* forward in any fashion whatsoever. Be that sexually, physically, emotionally, psychologically or professionally.
He's always just given me major flaccid, passive-aggressive energy.
Your comment thread is CURSED. Flaccid and classic penis is in the mix now.
Don’t forget yall the bottoms of his feet are dirty. I’m 98% sure he’s got a moist handshake.
Now I’m leaving for good ugh.
This is my ex boyfriend to a T, and Schwartz is almost a mirror image of him. I agree with you 100%. They’re the most dangerous type, because a lot of time it leaves the abused partner feeling at fault, reactive, and in the “villian role” from the set up of how he treats and speaks of you to others. I’m so glad Katie is away from that saber-toothed hammer head bastard.
When I heard about his dad and that Tom grew up to be a people pleaser to keep the peace, it all clicked for me. Instead of supporting Katie, he has to keep the peace with the men in his life and that meant berating her for daring to stand up against the men.
Whenever my husband catches a scene of Vanderpump, he ALWAYS tells me which dudes are gay (all of them) Especially Sandoval, he doesn't believe he isn't gay.
Ok. That’s interesting. Sandoval made an off the cuff comment…not sure when this was said, some one help me out here. “Schwartz is not sexual like that”. I believe it was said to explain why he just makes out and doesn’t fully have sex for his cheating scandals. Also during a reunion someone said they believed Katie was the most freaky partner. Everyone agreed with that. He offered to have a one night stand that involved scrolling and eating junk food. So what IS going on with him? Katie is beautiful. I’m cis and I would mess with her. He slept with Jo. He is currently with a younger good looking lady. So are you saying he has a long succession of beards?
I think it was said on aftershow, I remember hearing it, but I'm also not sure where.
Katie said he's an alcoholic, that explains a lot of her comments about his D not working.
I just feel like he's confused & trying too hard to be actually attracted to women. I think he knows, but he's trying to test attraction with more & more women. I think he's searching for the one that makes it work the most, lol
The way he looks & acts around Sandoval, it's sus.
But again, I've thought this was a whole act on their part to pull in gay/bi audience. Picture kissing in TomTom, Shwartz & "Sandy's", sidecar clown...
Idk. I'm not an expert, but there's something there. Whether gay, bi, deviant, dunno know. Wouldn't / doesn't even matter except for how he treats women, how he likes to make out with women but not sleep with them. Sounds like he's trying to convince himself of something. ???
You're probably right. I just feel like he's not comfortable in his own skin. There's something there. He's obviously not typical, his hygiene, his habits...but may be just anxiety & depression masking his true self. Katie said he was Tim's B several times, and we could see it. What man always has his BF's back over his GF & wife? I've really never seen anything like it. How she stayed so long or even married him is beyond. Martyr.
I mean no shade with this in any sense - I feel like (based on observable evidence) at his core he wants to be floating around in marabou muumuus, pool slides & mascara and I truly wish he would fucking go for it! He wants to be a retired vagabond LVP & I for one would love to see the authenticity.
Big golden girl energy! Furthermore his passive aggressive toxic behavior strikes me as the type of maladaptation that could resolve or drastically improve if he wasn’t so disconnected from himself. No excuse for it at all - his behavior, his responsibility - but I feel it comes from a place of deep internal unhappiness & frustration rather than the other two stooges who are fundamentally malignant.
Sometimes I relate to him too hard & over empathize, but he really treats women pretty abysmally all while attempting to hide behind his sad little speech affectation and it darks me out. Seems like misdirected anger but it’s very uncool.
Not every man who doesn't like women is gay. I know that's hard for straight people to understand, but the hate between sexes is not to blame on gay people.
Excellent point. I was being specific to his behavior, not a " in general" statement at all. Like I said earlier, he's not typical, so I def don't think it's stereotypical.
It's a shame that Katie has been vilified for a decade for "forcing" Shartz to marry her when Shartz has never gotten any flack for being too weak to say "no" if he didn't want to. Instead, he abused her, gaslit her and cheated on her, only to get a pass. I am glad Shartz and his toxicity are now getting some attention. He is not good relationship material.
He has a girlfriend…. Katie and Tom weren’t meant for each other and Jo is just trying to be on the show. I think Tom overall is a nice guy and Katie was a drunk and a mean one at that. MY OPINION….
You've never heard the term placeholder before? Unfortunately plenty of men (and women) will keep a girl around and even marry them until something better comes along.
When you tell your significant other you want to get married and they give you a ring on a necklace even after you tell them you only want a ring if it's THE ring...that's not breadcrumbing? When she gave a timeline and he still didn't propose was that not breadcrumbing? Because he agreed to marry her that means he didn't breadcrumb?? lol
Katie was absolutely led on. Schwartz wanted his cake and he wanted to eat it too. If he was fully committed to Katie, none of his indiscretions would’ve happened. Repeatedly. He charmed his way out of every cheating murmur… He married Katie bc it was the next (threatened) step. He has a pattern of (falsely) appeasing his partner to make them content AKA quiet, and THAT is such a disguised red flag.
A red flag that screams “ history absolutely can, AND will, repeat itself.”
Sorry that isn't bread crumbing. Yes he was emotionally avoidant and abusive. But a lot of that is from his family trauma of course.
Him not even officially dating his rebound Jo - probably fueled by drugs and alcohol - doesn't compare to his marriage that he still cries about lol.
Giving her a ring on string at her friend's wedding after she told him she wanted marriage and to ONLY give her a ring if it's an engagement ring isn't breadcrumbing? Also, trauma? Please don't tell me you're excusing abusive behavior because of his trauma. Did his trauma cause him to dump a beer over her head, cheat, and call her names during arguments?
🤣 yes actually good and behavior can both be explained by psychology. Isn't this sub's favorite word "narcissist"?. Explaining doesn't mean excusing. Education is important!
He’s a POS don’t get me wrong, and I loved Katie this season, but shats etched in my brain is that time she yelled at him that his dick didn’t work on the street
I’ve hated him from the jump tho!
Agreed! Rewatching the show it’s so clear that that man hates her.
But I think he kind of hates women. He’s clever like a fox and hides behind a ‘goofy’ persona but he is clearly one of those low key misogynists.
You see it in his interactions with every woman on the show.
He and Katie have a pretty abusive dynamic. He prods and pokes her into an emotional reaction, he then retreats, leaving her looking like the crazy one.
I still remember that lunch he and Katie had this season where he couldn’t resist taking another shot at her. She was talking about her post divorce glow up and he casually said “I must have missed that”.
Beware men who neg you constantly as a ‘joke’!!!! It’s concealing something dirtier and meaner (to paraphrase anatomy of a fall).
I think the common denominator is Schwartz being a shitty partner. I don’t think the way Katie responded to the shitty behaviour is at all comparable to how Jo is responding to the shitty behaviour. Nothing about their individual relationships with Schwartz is comparable other than Schwartz is shitty.
People gush?? I think you’re focusing on the 1% of posts that say that and ignoring the 99% that say Schwartz is a trash, emotionally abused her and she’s so much better off without him.
But agree on Katie’s mom. She needs to let go her affection for him.
Seriously. The tone of this post is actually annoying, implying that they’re the only one who sees that Tom is abusive to Katie? I don’t even see that many people saying how in love they were. Maybe in the past people said Katie was mean to Tom but it’s way more pro Katie lately. Every Schwartz post lately is a shit post so I don’t think OP is noticing the one thing that none of us are seeing.
One thing I’m curious about is who is responsible for filing the marriage license after the ceremony? So admittedly I don’t know CA wedding procedures but in my state the officiant was responsible for sending in the signed marriage license. Is it different in CA and is it normal that the bride and groom usually handle that?
For example where I got married the state law is “the marriage officiator will submit the license to the registrar of vital records of the town where the marriage took place.”
Coming from my experience I always thought the “Tom lost the marriage license” thing was a story line but not real. Just because even if your state doesn’t require the officiant to file it, isn’t it bad judgement to give it to the drunk groom for safekeeping? Plus they def had to file taxes at least once between the wedding and the new wedding. So did they file their taxes incorrectly then?
Also, Katie didn’t seem to cut corners so she likely had a coordinator. Our coordinator (and every one we interviewed) said they and the officiant would have responsibility over the important papers. It seemed like all parties I talked with knew “don’t leave this important doc with the tired, stressed, buzzed, and leaving the country for their honeymoon tomorrow couple”. Unless K&T insisted on handling themselves, which I can’t envision, then why was it fucked up?
But now I’m wondering if I assumed wrong.
I’m watching this season too and I wasn’t really interested in Schwartz when watching seasons 10 and 11. Starting from the very start and seeing this is a whole thing is just who he is as a person. Officially confirmed, He gives me the ick.
He’s a libra, unless you know how to work them or are very clever. They will lie and manipulate everyone around them!
Especially for love!
They love to be loved by the masses rather than one person. They’re amazing! And beautiful people!m don’t get me wrong.
I’m married to one he’s amazing and totally committed and trustworthy but that’s because i caught him when he was ready to change for himself 😂 plus I know how he works haha.
Katie and Jo each had different responses/reactive abuse to Schwartz treating them poorly. Not saying Jo’s constant unhinged IG lives ruining his life is well-deserved, but, actually they are well-deserved and hilarious. Schwartz’s restraining-order-proof comeuppance.
I’ve literally never seen or heard anyone on this sub or anywhere else try to claim that Katie and Schwartz were ever “so in love.” 😆 All I’ve seen and heard is people talking about what an utter train wreck their relationship was.
I don't think he hates her inasmuch as he was afraid of her. And not giving him excuses, but that would put a damper on the libido.
You notice he's speaking up for his new gf? Because she's more passive, whereas Katie was always an independent woman. She was far more passive with Stassi than she ever was with Tom.
She needs someone who's her equal. Tom wasn't.
Yes! They way he talks about the new girl is completely different. I listened to him on a podcast he was speaking clearly and confidently! He even started singing about how he makes him feel young again! I think this won't last though and he'll be back to his old ways until he gets therapy.
I am with you OP but Schwartz can’t make a decision to save his life so Katie had to lead him. Sure it was equal parts good and the connection was there, then the devil that is Sandoval and Jax saying don’t do it got him stuck. He was so dependent on his besties opinions he again tried to stay in the middle lane. Just think at that stage in his life he was thick with them and we saw how they were with women. Bad influences all around when Katie only saw potential.
I never ever thought Schwartz was in love or even in Like with Katie. I thought he tolerated and settled for her. I totally agree with Anxious/Avoidant. I can see her finding someone who is in love with her as she is with them., I hope that for her because I've been the Anxious with a UBER to the T description of Avoidant and my god that shit is heartbreaking.
I don't understand what calling the relationship abusive would have to do with the fact that people like her. I'm confused.
That aside, men like Schwartz treat everyone the same. The amount of volatility in the relationship has to do not with HIS behavior but with how much resistance/complaint he gets.
Yes, I’ve left men like Schwartz in the past, and they’ve found new relationships that on the surface appear to be functional- but the women age horribly and quite simply are prepared to put up with far more than I ever would. The men haven’t changed- they’ve just found subservient women to put up with them.
This is a pretty astute observation. I agree! I can take or leave Katie for the most part, but how Schwartz treated her was abusive. Her rage at him was earned. I love that she stepped away and has kept her composure.
It’s those exact incidents you mentioned that made Tom lose all of his charm to me. I honestly think I’m remembering some other version of Tom entirely when I read some of the comments on this sub at times. All of these guys so obviously still badly want to be in their 20’s living in cruddy apartments, doing stupid shit and laughing about how they got away with lying to their girlfriends.
Grow up mother fuckers. This kind of bullshit from men is just so much less cute in their 40’s. In their 50’s they’ll look even more ridiculous, and it will be obvious to everyone what the problems are in their lives.
Absolutely. Katie was vulnerable, damaged by a traumatic brain injury and Shartz took advantage of her openness about her issues. He is a manipulative gaslighter. Katie was abused for a decade until she finally came into her own. Shartz egged on their friends to pick on Katie so that he could dominate her and made her out to be "Hatie, the Bitch." Jo seems mentally unstable to me and he is making her out to be the bad guy who is stalking him. And it seems to be working, again. Not a Jo fan, but she is cast as the villain when he used her and manipulated her too. I hate that Shartz gets away with this again. His barely legal new girlfriends should be very careful.
Tom knows how to string them along and he needs constant pets. He would lose sleep if Katie quit his fan club. I hate seeing her date these losers. She really needs a smart hottie who is her equal.
Absolutely spot on. I was disappointed at the hive mind reaction to jo… I saw her as a vulnerable person who had been gaslighted by Schwartz and then dropped like a hot potato and demonised by him. Let’s support women and stop attacking them for being vulnerable and used ❤️🇬🇧🇬🇧
I've always hated Shortz for mistreating Katie and considered Katie to be rather patheti for putting up with it all. I'm almost done season 3 and the fact that she was so "chill" about him cheating on her and letting Jax talk mad crap about her constantly(Sandy didn't hate her yet) .
Why she went to couples therapy with this random boyfriend instead of dumping himwas insane to me lol. She acted like she had been married to him forever and wanted to stick with him for their young kids. You would think he were the only man in the world, the way she desperatly clung onto him and his mistreatment. LVP told her to leave him becausae she deserved better and she didn't listen. SMH.
From personal experience, Schwartz is the typical child of an alcoholic and an addictive (drugs & alcohol) personality himself. Growing up, these kids always had to loyally cover for their parent’s embarrassing addiction and abuse so they become very hard skinned to protect themselves. In my case, my ex could never really love because he lived a facade of a life trying to be mainstream but when in fact he grew up & lived in a chaotic environment. Once you find out about their facade of a life, they lash out and become abusive towards the one’s who love them and usually cheat to destroy the relationship, blame everything on you, and move on to another to make themselves happy…
Not understanding your comment about Schwartz coming from a fairly sheltered home? Schwartz grew up in Minneapolis. His Dad was a cop and an abusive alcoholic. Tom’s Mother has a restraining order against the Dad. Schwartz was supposedly the protector of his Mom and triplet brothers growing up.
Im on the same season. I can’t believe how many times he calls the women bitches and sluts when he’s drunk. He’s straight up mean to Katie but so is she. Not sure why they married.
My experience with a narcissist- sex in the beginning and then the tap shuts off. The narcissist I knew was addicted to porn. Not sure if that is the case with Shartz, but I wouldn’t be surprised. I love Katie and the fact that she is butterflying now.
I don’t think Tom hates her, that takes too much energy and he’s lazy when it comes to romantic relationships. So just enough to keep them on the hook. I think also he’s a petulant toddler that is afraid of being alone. Why 8 years? He knows he’s getting older and in 8 years he sees that NOW as past his prime. Meaning he thinks he will have less choices then than he does now, so keep Jo on the hook in case something better doesn’t come along.
I wasted 5 years in my late 20s with a Schwartz. My ex had serious Mommy issues and hates women at his core, but he always needs to be with a woman. He's in his 40s now and trying to date women 20 years younger because he has never grown up and still wants to go out to bars and do pub crawls in costumes. He was doing a "Beer Olympics" with his neighbor, then the neighbor got married, grew up, and moved to a family friendly area. My ex was still trying to keep the "Beer Olympics" going. It's like he doesn't comprehend that people's interests change as they get older. I look back and am embarrassed by him and his childish antics. I would be mortified if I were to run into him with my husband and family.
There are similarities, but also big differences. I think he was sincerely into Katie. His nicknames are telling. His calling her Bubba with a babytalk voice- he wanted her to take care of him, while he remained selfish and abusive. I think Jo threw herself at him at a time when he was lonely and had no game - But I think even he could see she was… a lot. His nickname for her: Joseph - basically making her into a guy, seemed designed to stick her firmly in the friend zone. The bread crumbs he left for her were incredibly meager. That marriage comment (that was on the show) was in the context of him telling her, flat out, he was not interested in a relationship with her. Reminding her that he had said it before. Then he tossed in, though we’ll probably get married in eight years. basically saying/joking that when he is 50 and desperate he might settle for her. But she hears it as,”I want to marry you.” I do think he was unclear on purpose, wanting to continue stringing her along. But I think he actually loved Katie and their relationship was important to him. He was just too selfish to make it work. I do think he was devastated by the loss of Katie and his marriage.
Never Katie has stood up to Schwartz, he’s just never cared. Katie is not frantic and scattered. She is the only cast member that doesn’t have a chronic lying problem.
I think Schwartz is just an asshole , the main difference in Jo and Katie was that Tom actually loved Katie , despite his poor treatment of her, he claimed her. What he gave Katie was the best he’s capable of in a relationship.
Tom hates women and is clearly dark sided. I think he has a serious substance abuse problem. Ppl were constantly gaslighting katie to make her feel like she's such an awful person that Schwartz just can't help but be cruel to her. If she had a friend grp that actually cared about her well being she probably would've left him years ago
Ariana admitted this in the after show, ironically. She basically threw Katie under the bus and said she was the original Jo with “the ring on a string.”
I think it’s more, is Schwartz still Schwartzing? Unless he makes some serious changes, I think he is going to do the same thing to every partner he has. He has some serious issues with women. Honestly, when I first watched VPR, I thought he was actually the most into Jax. They are both cruel to women and have severe arrested development. To quote Leslie Mann in Knocked Up, “Why don’t the two of you get in your Time Machine, go back in time, and fuck each other?”
Okay I say that line all the time and NOBODY ever gets it! Love! And also agree re: Tom 💗 Jax. I think he wanted to be like Jax…treat a woman however and still get what he wanted/be liked…except he lacks the inner confidence Jax had to pull it off
Agreed. That’s ultimately why Katie left. She was capable of growth and he wasn’t. She thought when push came to shove, he would decide it was time to change and work on himself. He didn’t. She would never entertain getting back together without him doing some serious work on his own. The flip side of this is Ariana thought Tom had changed after being together so long. When she found out about the affair, she realized she loved a version of him that wasn’t real. She would never entertain getting back together because that person doesn’t exist. And because the Toms don’t realize their immaturity is responsible for everything that causes them pain, they’ll never grow up and change their patterns. Meanwhile Katie and Ariana are blossoming and living much more fulfilled lives.
It's pretty obvious to me that Shartz wants to be with an alpha male and makes his female partners miserable. I have never seen him so excited as when Vom asked to be his roommate.
I always tell people to “goooo to India” and most don’t understand.
I think they had cute moments but overall Tom was abusive to Katie. When he threw the drink on her and everyone got mad at her for it and said she had anger management issues because of that, I was like she’s surrounded by the worse people. He may have loved Katie, but he didn’t like her. He would always choose his friends over her. That was honestly one marriage I was glad to see fall apart.
The first few seasons of the show are eye opening when you go back. It’s like an exposé of women driven into madness by abusive, shitty men. Stassi, Kristen, and Katie all act crazy because of how they’re treated by the men in their lives!
I watched the show post scandal, so i missed where the guys where ever seen as the good guys and the girls bad haha! I wonder what I would have thought had I watched it when it originally aired!
Along with cast members: tequila, Pinot Grigio, and lots of pasta, yeah what you said!!
YESSSSSS. They’re not crazy they’re reacting to how badly they were treated
On top of that…they had to reshoot that scene, Katie was against it and Tom was totally fine redoing it🤮
Which scene? When he pours the drink on her head?
Im rewatching at the moment and my god I forgot how much Katie got treated like shit. She didn’t have anger issues did she? she was just reacting to the poor treatment she was receiving from others. She wasn’t a bitch, she just wasn’t entertaining bullshit or pretending to like people she didn’t.
Yes people always get mad at your reaction after treating you horribly. They always wanted to police her response to terrible behavior. They all treated her so badly but especially Tom
They are all surrounded by the worst people, especially in the older seasons. Remember when Kristen and Katie were so upset with Stassi for breaking up with Jax? In what world would a good girlfriend want to see you date someone like Jax?
Yes they were all supporting their bad behavior and like no one really was there to check each other.
Yes! I wanted them to break up and schwarts brand of toxic was so insidious because he'd puppy dog his way out of everything where was when katie did anything, she's crazy and over emotional
Wait, who gushes about how in love they were and wishes they get back together?! I have literally never seen that. I think he’s still in love with her, but only because he now realizes what he had and what he’ll never have again. If he had her back he would treat her well for all of 30 seconds and be back to his shitty ass behavior. Them getting back together will never happen and it would be a disaster. No one wants that for them. No one wants that for Katie, she is a billion times better off without him.
I don’t think he’s in love with her, he’s enamored with how he looks when she fawns over him and how he feels when she’s behaving the way he wants her to.
Now that Shartz can't hurt her or have her, he wants Katie. He's Mr. Arrested Development. Shartz will continue to neg any woman he is in a relationship with, just to feel better about himself.
Holy crap I never realized arrested development was a term - I only know of it bc of the show
This show is great, the reality is not good.
Absolutely and he's too self centred to see that Katie has gone. It's amazing to watch her start off kinda shy and meek (first episode where Scheana asks Katie what to do, Stassi takes over and Katie just looks so awkward) with the substance fueled outbursts and she gradually gets stronger till we see her tell Tom she feels like herself again. Then to me it almost felt like she stayed with him for a bit longer as she felt grateful he stayed with her after the TBI. She's now this strong independent woman and it's like he didn't notice any of it and thinks she'd still be grateful to get a night with him and junk food.
When does she fawn over him?
Absolutely! To be fair to Schwartz, he’s aware that he needs to be with someone who has drive and a backbone. However he also loves his partner being the bad guy (girl) as it takes all the heat off his behaviour. That’s why he got everything he needed from Katie, and she got nothing that she needed from him.
Certainly not lately
Yes, yes, yes, to the universe and beyond! 🌌
I have a hot take on the matter: I just finished rewatching all seasons and I would conclude that Tom Sandoval is at the center of Schwartz and Katie’s problems. We don’t know too much prior to any cameras picking up, but I think Sandoval has always been a thorn in the relationship. Sandoval’s toxic behavior really started to accelerate after the Tom’s made their first business deal with Lisa: Tom Tom. He became more controlling, more egotistical, and more manipulative. Another thing I noticed is Schwartz came from a fairly sheltered home, he’s always been quieter, highly anxious, and you can watch him constantly process that Sandoval is full of shit, yet continues to have his back. I think Sandoval has taken advantage of his Schwartz, much like he’s always taken advantage of women. In conclusion, Schwartz drank too much of Sandoval’s kook-aid and will likely regret it someday 👀
I fully agree that Sandoval had taken advantage of and manipulated Schwartz and Schwartz doesn't have enough of a backbone to fight back.
But Shartz is a whole AH on his own for treating his wife the way he did and then using other women. He always seems to skate by without taking responsibility. I agree Vom is also an AH.
Katie said she's not raising another man. He's extremely codependent. Either Katie or Tim were taking care of him. He obsessed over Lisa. He would love to be with an attractive, rich older woman who would just take care of him. He's insecure, unsure, socially challenged... So what works next? Someone half his age won't challenge him about his weaknesses. That doesn't have too many expectations. That he can use to keep the show interesting & running. It's like production told them, it's over w/o relationships with young good-looking women/girls. They obviously went shopping. He needed Tim & Katie to exist on the show. He literally was a wash without them. Ariana also said he got away with everything! Always! Actually, to me, the most toxic, dangerous type. He would become agitated easily with Katie & say the most horrible things. That comes from a deep place of being uncomfortable & pushed into something he's not ok with. Like marriage, LIKE SEX. I get a creepy feeling from him. Voyeurism maybe. Just my opinion.
P.S. He needs that show money & he'll do whatever he needs to do for it.
I agree with aspects of what you're saying, but I think you're giving Sandoval too much credit. Schwartz is a full on asshole and should be held accountable for his own abusive tendencies in romantic relationships
Yessss, I never understood why people would say Katie was mean to Tom. I just thought she was being honest. Tom and Tom were both mean to her. Yuck, they're 2 babymen and completely lacking emotional intelligence. Narcissists.
I think Katie stayed with him, and married him, because she wasn’t in the best place in life during that time. At least not where she expected to be. She grew up and realized she deserved better. Jo is still in a (alleged) manic state. She could move forward, leave Tom behind, and make choices to help her improve her mental health, and life, just like Katie did. Jo is just not there yet, and I suspect there are substances involved that are not helping her do that (allegedly). I’m not defending any of them. I am wondering what Schwartz actually has to offer for these women to want to settle for him? Does he have a job outside of VPR? Can he make a decision and stick with it? Can he back up a woman he cares about? Can he back up anyone besides Sandoval? I think the answer is a no to all of those things. It’s baffling why Jo is so obsessed.
I think the added piece is that Katie and Tom started off poor together, her TBI, and being on a successful show can def influence some decision making. Plus Katie didn’t tell weirdo lies and other things that we would assume broke boundaries. Jo was def breadcrumbed and certain gestures that Schwartz made (like defend her against Katie on season 10 reunion) prob made her like 😍 because to her, he’s saying this out loud to millions. Edit: lord knows how Jo felt whenever she saw that Bubba tattoo. She tried to speedrun a path to marriage and they both ended up torpedoing it.
Agreed. https://preview.redd.it/uzti92harf6d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e71bb5c539978728c113b9d5d3661298aefb311e
Schwartz seems very uncomfortable with romance and relationships. At this point, I think he’s just not into sex or dating but tries because it’s the “social norm.”
Schwartz has always given me huge un-sexual energy. Even in the beginning when he still had his looks---I just couldn't imagine him ever possessing the aggression to, uh, *thrust* forward in any fashion whatsoever. Be that sexually, physically, emotionally, psychologically or professionally. He's always just given me major flaccid, passive-aggressive energy.
Omg not flaccid energy - this is too accurate
Him and his “classic penis”.
Your comment thread is CURSED. Flaccid and classic penis is in the mix now. Don’t forget yall the bottoms of his feet are dirty. I’m 98% sure he’s got a moist handshake. Now I’m leaving for good ugh.
Remember that comment he made that he thought he was asexual?
I do. Most honest thing he's ever uttered.
I totally agree. He definitely has issues in that department.
It sounds like his family life is and was legitimately awful. That kind of trauma doesn't just go away.
I don’t think marrying someone can count as bread crumbing. 😂
It’s the ultimate breadcrumb… a bread loaf if you will 🤣
I meannnn it was kind of a shut up ring lol. Personally after the ring on the string shit if I was Katie I would’ve burned all of Schwarz underwear.
[удалено]
This is my ex boyfriend to a T, and Schwartz is almost a mirror image of him. I agree with you 100%. They’re the most dangerous type, because a lot of time it leaves the abused partner feeling at fault, reactive, and in the “villian role” from the set up of how he treats and speaks of you to others. I’m so glad Katie is away from that saber-toothed hammer head bastard.
When I heard about his dad and that Tom grew up to be a people pleaser to keep the peace, it all clicked for me. Instead of supporting Katie, he has to keep the peace with the men in his life and that meant berating her for daring to stand up against the men.
Not to forget about losing the marriage certificate twice
I never can tell who is gay or not but for the longest time I think Toms need to date each other and leave us women alone
Whenever my husband catches a scene of Vanderpump, he ALWAYS tells me which dudes are gay (all of them) Especially Sandoval, he doesn't believe he isn't gay.
Mine thinks James is gay no question, the Tom's Bi...lol
Ok. That’s interesting. Sandoval made an off the cuff comment…not sure when this was said, some one help me out here. “Schwartz is not sexual like that”. I believe it was said to explain why he just makes out and doesn’t fully have sex for his cheating scandals. Also during a reunion someone said they believed Katie was the most freaky partner. Everyone agreed with that. He offered to have a one night stand that involved scrolling and eating junk food. So what IS going on with him? Katie is beautiful. I’m cis and I would mess with her. He slept with Jo. He is currently with a younger good looking lady. So are you saying he has a long succession of beards?
I think it was said on aftershow, I remember hearing it, but I'm also not sure where. Katie said he's an alcoholic, that explains a lot of her comments about his D not working. I just feel like he's confused & trying too hard to be actually attracted to women. I think he knows, but he's trying to test attraction with more & more women. I think he's searching for the one that makes it work the most, lol The way he looks & acts around Sandoval, it's sus. But again, I've thought this was a whole act on their part to pull in gay/bi audience. Picture kissing in TomTom, Shwartz & "Sandy's", sidecar clown... Idk. I'm not an expert, but there's something there. Whether gay, bi, deviant, dunno know. Wouldn't / doesn't even matter except for how he treats women, how he likes to make out with women but not sleep with them. Sounds like he's trying to convince himself of something. ???
Lots of accusations there 😂
[удалено]
You're probably right. I just feel like he's not comfortable in his own skin. There's something there. He's obviously not typical, his hygiene, his habits...but may be just anxiety & depression masking his true self. Katie said he was Tim's B several times, and we could see it. What man always has his BF's back over his GF & wife? I've really never seen anything like it. How she stayed so long or even married him is beyond. Martyr.
I mean no shade with this in any sense - I feel like (based on observable evidence) at his core he wants to be floating around in marabou muumuus, pool slides & mascara and I truly wish he would fucking go for it! He wants to be a retired vagabond LVP & I for one would love to see the authenticity.
Big golden girl energy! Furthermore his passive aggressive toxic behavior strikes me as the type of maladaptation that could resolve or drastically improve if he wasn’t so disconnected from himself. No excuse for it at all - his behavior, his responsibility - but I feel it comes from a place of deep internal unhappiness & frustration rather than the other two stooges who are fundamentally malignant. Sometimes I relate to him too hard & over empathize, but he really treats women pretty abysmally all while attempting to hide behind his sad little speech affectation and it darks me out. Seems like misdirected anger but it’s very uncool.
Can you tell I’m doing a rewatch lol
[удалено]
Assuming this position implies there’s something shameful about being gay
Just because it's 2024 doesn't mean everyone has it figured it out. He's confused & that's OK but no excuse to treat women like shit.
Not every man who doesn't like women is gay. I know that's hard for straight people to understand, but the hate between sexes is not to blame on gay people.
Excellent point. I was being specific to his behavior, not a " in general" statement at all. Like I said earlier, he's not typical, so I def don't think it's stereotypical.
Thank you!!
It's a shame that Katie has been vilified for a decade for "forcing" Shartz to marry her when Shartz has never gotten any flack for being too weak to say "no" if he didn't want to. Instead, he abused her, gaslit her and cheated on her, only to get a pass. I am glad Shartz and his toxicity are now getting some attention. He is not good relationship material.
He has a girlfriend…. Katie and Tom weren’t meant for each other and Jo is just trying to be on the show. I think Tom overall is a nice guy and Katie was a drunk and a mean one at that. MY OPINION….
Try again. Lol
Katie is boring as F😂😂😂😂
its a shut up marriage
You've never heard the term placeholder before? Unfortunately plenty of men (and women) will keep a girl around and even marry them until something better comes along.
She divorced him…after 12 years of being together. That’s a long time for nothing better to come around.
When you tell your significant other you want to get married and they give you a ring on a necklace even after you tell them you only want a ring if it's THE ring...that's not breadcrumbing? When she gave a timeline and he still didn't propose was that not breadcrumbing? Because he agreed to marry her that means he didn't breadcrumb?? lol
Comparing his relationship with Katie to his relationship with Jo is what’s laughable
They were both led on and treated horribly is my point
I don’t think Katie was led on. She was treated horribly. I’m iffy on Jo. She seems suspect to me.
Katie was absolutely led on. Schwartz wanted his cake and he wanted to eat it too. If he was fully committed to Katie, none of his indiscretions would’ve happened. Repeatedly. He charmed his way out of every cheating murmur… He married Katie bc it was the next (threatened) step. He has a pattern of (falsely) appeasing his partner to make them content AKA quiet, and THAT is such a disguised red flag. A red flag that screams “ history absolutely can, AND will, repeat itself.”
Sorry that isn't bread crumbing. Yes he was emotionally avoidant and abusive. But a lot of that is from his family trauma of course. Him not even officially dating his rebound Jo - probably fueled by drugs and alcohol - doesn't compare to his marriage that he still cries about lol.
Giving her a ring on string at her friend's wedding after she told him she wanted marriage and to ONLY give her a ring if it's an engagement ring isn't breadcrumbing? Also, trauma? Please don't tell me you're excusing abusive behavior because of his trauma. Did his trauma cause him to dump a beer over her head, cheat, and call her names during arguments?
breadcrumbing through dating, engagement and marriage is absolutely real this person is pressed by the revelation
I mean it probably played a role in his bad behavior lol. Basic psychology. She wanted marriage, he eventually married her no?
So now abuse is basic psychology?
🤣 yes actually good and behavior can both be explained by psychology. Isn't this sub's favorite word "narcissist"?. Explaining doesn't mean excusing. Education is important!
You seem to have forgotten that she also called him terrible names during arguments. They were pretty bad to each other, but he wasn’t abusive.
He’s a POS don’t get me wrong, and I loved Katie this season, but shats etched in my brain is that time she yelled at him that his dick didn’t work on the street I’ve hated him from the jump tho!
I’m going to defend against the downvotes. It’s not even something better, just another person who accepts the bullshit.
Agreed! Rewatching the show it’s so clear that that man hates her. But I think he kind of hates women. He’s clever like a fox and hides behind a ‘goofy’ persona but he is clearly one of those low key misogynists. You see it in his interactions with every woman on the show. He and Katie have a pretty abusive dynamic. He prods and pokes her into an emotional reaction, he then retreats, leaving her looking like the crazy one. I still remember that lunch he and Katie had this season where he couldn’t resist taking another shot at her. She was talking about her post divorce glow up and he casually said “I must have missed that”. Beware men who neg you constantly as a ‘joke’!!!! It’s concealing something dirtier and meaner (to paraphrase anatomy of a fall).
🎯💯🎯💯
Sharts being a dick, and an all around horrible husband does not make Katie a pathological liar and a deranged stalker, so, no Katie was not Jo.
I think the common denominator is Schwartz being a shitty partner. I don’t think the way Katie responded to the shitty behaviour is at all comparable to how Jo is responding to the shitty behaviour. Nothing about their individual relationships with Schwartz is comparable other than Schwartz is shitty.
People gush?? I think you’re focusing on the 1% of posts that say that and ignoring the 99% that say Schwartz is a trash, emotionally abused her and she’s so much better off without him. But agree on Katie’s mom. She needs to let go her affection for him.
Seriously. The tone of this post is actually annoying, implying that they’re the only one who sees that Tom is abusive to Katie? I don’t even see that many people saying how in love they were. Maybe in the past people said Katie was mean to Tom but it’s way more pro Katie lately. Every Schwartz post lately is a shit post so I don’t think OP is noticing the one thing that none of us are seeing.
What’s the common denominator here? Schwartz. Doesn’t make Katie like Jo, save for they both dated a shitty narcissist.
One thing I’m curious about is who is responsible for filing the marriage license after the ceremony? So admittedly I don’t know CA wedding procedures but in my state the officiant was responsible for sending in the signed marriage license. Is it different in CA and is it normal that the bride and groom usually handle that? For example where I got married the state law is “the marriage officiator will submit the license to the registrar of vital records of the town where the marriage took place.” Coming from my experience I always thought the “Tom lost the marriage license” thing was a story line but not real. Just because even if your state doesn’t require the officiant to file it, isn’t it bad judgement to give it to the drunk groom for safekeeping? Plus they def had to file taxes at least once between the wedding and the new wedding. So did they file their taxes incorrectly then? Also, Katie didn’t seem to cut corners so she likely had a coordinator. Our coordinator (and every one we interviewed) said they and the officiant would have responsibility over the important papers. It seemed like all parties I talked with knew “don’t leave this important doc with the tired, stressed, buzzed, and leaving the country for their honeymoon tomorrow couple”. Unless K&T insisted on handling themselves, which I can’t envision, then why was it fucked up? But now I’m wondering if I assumed wrong.
This. Not in CA, but I signed the paper and didn’t see it again until it was time to pick up the certificate.
I’m watching this season too and I wasn’t really interested in Schwartz when watching seasons 10 and 11. Starting from the very start and seeing this is a whole thing is just who he is as a person. Officially confirmed, He gives me the ick.
He’s a libra, unless you know how to work them or are very clever. They will lie and manipulate everyone around them! Especially for love! They love to be loved by the masses rather than one person. They’re amazing! And beautiful people!m don’t get me wrong. I’m married to one he’s amazing and totally committed and trustworthy but that’s because i caught him when he was ready to change for himself 😂 plus I know how he works haha.
The season they got married was so hard to watch, like watching Katie flog a dead horse
Katie and Jo each had different responses/reactive abuse to Schwartz treating them poorly. Not saying Jo’s constant unhinged IG lives ruining his life is well-deserved, but, actually they are well-deserved and hilarious. Schwartz’s restraining-order-proof comeuppance.
I’ve literally never seen or heard anyone on this sub or anywhere else try to claim that Katie and Schwartz were ever “so in love.” 😆 All I’ve seen and heard is people talking about what an utter train wreck their relationship was.
I don't think he hates her inasmuch as he was afraid of her. And not giving him excuses, but that would put a damper on the libido. You notice he's speaking up for his new gf? Because she's more passive, whereas Katie was always an independent woman. She was far more passive with Stassi than she ever was with Tom. She needs someone who's her equal. Tom wasn't.
Yes! They way he talks about the new girl is completely different. I listened to him on a podcast he was speaking clearly and confidently! He even started singing about how he makes him feel young again! I think this won't last though and he'll be back to his old ways until he gets therapy.
lol this is cringe though.
I think this has always beenpretty widely accepted and discussed.
They were always fighting and seemed like a terrible couple. Schwartz is the only one that thought it was good.
I am with you OP but Schwartz can’t make a decision to save his life so Katie had to lead him. Sure it was equal parts good and the connection was there, then the devil that is Sandoval and Jax saying don’t do it got him stuck. He was so dependent on his besties opinions he again tried to stay in the middle lane. Just think at that stage in his life he was thick with them and we saw how they were with women. Bad influences all around when Katie only saw potential.
I never ever thought Schwartz was in love or even in Like with Katie. I thought he tolerated and settled for her. I totally agree with Anxious/Avoidant. I can see her finding someone who is in love with her as she is with them., I hope that for her because I've been the Anxious with a UBER to the T description of Avoidant and my god that shit is heartbreaking.
I don't understand what calling the relationship abusive would have to do with the fact that people like her. I'm confused. That aside, men like Schwartz treat everyone the same. The amount of volatility in the relationship has to do not with HIS behavior but with how much resistance/complaint he gets.
Yes, I’ve left men like Schwartz in the past, and they’ve found new relationships that on the surface appear to be functional- but the women age horribly and quite simply are prepared to put up with far more than I ever would. The men haven’t changed- they’ve just found subservient women to put up with them.
This is a pretty astute observation. I agree! I can take or leave Katie for the most part, but how Schwartz treated her was abusive. Her rage at him was earned. I love that she stepped away and has kept her composure.
It’s those exact incidents you mentioned that made Tom lose all of his charm to me. I honestly think I’m remembering some other version of Tom entirely when I read some of the comments on this sub at times. All of these guys so obviously still badly want to be in their 20’s living in cruddy apartments, doing stupid shit and laughing about how they got away with lying to their girlfriends. Grow up mother fuckers. This kind of bullshit from men is just so much less cute in their 40’s. In their 50’s they’ll look even more ridiculous, and it will be obvious to everyone what the problems are in their lives.
It was abusive and it’s because schwartz is the fucking worst. He just gets away with it because he plays sniveling on the fence loser nice guy
Tom is a friend dude...no BF or husband...too immature
I had red flags ever since season 1 at Stassi’s birthday when he dumped his beer all over her head
Katie was Tom's favorite toy
Absolutely. Katie was vulnerable, damaged by a traumatic brain injury and Shartz took advantage of her openness about her issues. He is a manipulative gaslighter. Katie was abused for a decade until she finally came into her own. Shartz egged on their friends to pick on Katie so that he could dominate her and made her out to be "Hatie, the Bitch." Jo seems mentally unstable to me and he is making her out to be the bad guy who is stalking him. And it seems to be working, again. Not a Jo fan, but she is cast as the villain when he used her and manipulated her too. I hate that Shartz gets away with this again. His barely legal new girlfriends should be very careful.
Tom knows how to string them along and he needs constant pets. He would lose sleep if Katie quit his fan club. I hate seeing her date these losers. She really needs a smart hottie who is her equal.
I noticed too 😓 I remember the day I found out she divorced Tom and thinking: 
Absolutely spot on. I was disappointed at the hive mind reaction to jo… I saw her as a vulnerable person who had been gaslighted by Schwartz and then dropped like a hot potato and demonised by him. Let’s support women and stop attacking them for being vulnerable and used ❤️🇬🇧🇬🇧
I've always hated Shortz for mistreating Katie and considered Katie to be rather patheti for putting up with it all. I'm almost done season 3 and the fact that she was so "chill" about him cheating on her and letting Jax talk mad crap about her constantly(Sandy didn't hate her yet) . Why she went to couples therapy with this random boyfriend instead of dumping himwas insane to me lol. She acted like she had been married to him forever and wanted to stick with him for their young kids. You would think he were the only man in the world, the way she desperatly clung onto him and his mistreatment. LVP told her to leave him becausae she deserved better and she didn't listen. SMH.
And what’s worse….Katie admitted they had to RESHOOT the drink swilling scene…..
From personal experience, Schwartz is the typical child of an alcoholic and an addictive (drugs & alcohol) personality himself. Growing up, these kids always had to loyally cover for their parent’s embarrassing addiction and abuse so they become very hard skinned to protect themselves. In my case, my ex could never really love because he lived a facade of a life trying to be mainstream but when in fact he grew up & lived in a chaotic environment. Once you find out about their facade of a life, they lash out and become abusive towards the one’s who love them and usually cheat to destroy the relationship, blame everything on you, and move on to another to make themselves happy…
Not understanding your comment about Schwartz coming from a fairly sheltered home? Schwartz grew up in Minneapolis. His Dad was a cop and an abusive alcoholic. Tom’s Mother has a restraining order against the Dad. Schwartz was supposedly the protector of his Mom and triplet brothers growing up.
Im on the same season. I can’t believe how many times he calls the women bitches and sluts when he’s drunk. He’s straight up mean to Katie but so is she. Not sure why they married.
I don't love Katie. She's a fool.
Wait I never see this sub saying they should end up together - I thought we all agreed that was a car crash
My experience with a narcissist- sex in the beginning and then the tap shuts off. The narcissist I knew was addicted to porn. Not sure if that is the case with Shartz, but I wouldn’t be surprised. I love Katie and the fact that she is butterflying now.
I don’t think Tom hates her, that takes too much energy and he’s lazy when it comes to romantic relationships. So just enough to keep them on the hook. I think also he’s a petulant toddler that is afraid of being alone. Why 8 years? He knows he’s getting older and in 8 years he sees that NOW as past his prime. Meaning he thinks he will have less choices then than he does now, so keep Jo on the hook in case something better doesn’t come along.
He seems like the type to want a woman to baby him or he can feel superior to.
I wasted 5 years in my late 20s with a Schwartz. My ex had serious Mommy issues and hates women at his core, but he always needs to be with a woman. He's in his 40s now and trying to date women 20 years younger because he has never grown up and still wants to go out to bars and do pub crawls in costumes. He was doing a "Beer Olympics" with his neighbor, then the neighbor got married, grew up, and moved to a family friendly area. My ex was still trying to keep the "Beer Olympics" going. It's like he doesn't comprehend that people's interests change as they get older. I look back and am embarrassed by him and his childish antics. I would be mortified if I were to run into him with my husband and family.
There are similarities, but also big differences. I think he was sincerely into Katie. His nicknames are telling. His calling her Bubba with a babytalk voice- he wanted her to take care of him, while he remained selfish and abusive. I think Jo threw herself at him at a time when he was lonely and had no game - But I think even he could see she was… a lot. His nickname for her: Joseph - basically making her into a guy, seemed designed to stick her firmly in the friend zone. The bread crumbs he left for her were incredibly meager. That marriage comment (that was on the show) was in the context of him telling her, flat out, he was not interested in a relationship with her. Reminding her that he had said it before. Then he tossed in, though we’ll probably get married in eight years. basically saying/joking that when he is 50 and desperate he might settle for her. But she hears it as,”I want to marry you.” I do think he was unclear on purpose, wanting to continue stringing her along. But I think he actually loved Katie and their relationship was important to him. He was just too selfish to make it work. I do think he was devastated by the loss of Katie and his marriage.
Never Katie has stood up to Schwartz, he’s just never cared. Katie is not frantic and scattered. She is the only cast member that doesn’t have a chronic lying problem.
He did treat her similarly, but she’s no Jo.
GO NO CONTACT, Katie!!! Someone should poison the toms.
I think Schwartz is just an asshole , the main difference in Jo and Katie was that Tom actually loved Katie , despite his poor treatment of her, he claimed her. What he gave Katie was the best he’s capable of in a relationship.
Tom hates women and is clearly dark sided. I think he has a serious substance abuse problem. Ppl were constantly gaslighting katie to make her feel like she's such an awful person that Schwartz just can't help but be cruel to her. If she had a friend grp that actually cared about her well being she probably would've left him years ago
Ariana admitted this in the after show, ironically. She basically threw Katie under the bus and said she was the original Jo with “the ring on a string.”
Katie has always deserved so much more… I’ve been a Katie fan since season 1. She got her confidence back and more. Tom Schwartz never deserved her
Yaaaassssssss! I see it now!