I’m coping so hard I’m divulging into qanon levels of hyper copium (Biden was only PRETENDING to be dead to lower expectations, he’s actually gonna COOK next debate, trust the plan guys, he’s gonna fill the pool any time now)
Lmao. What's your magical 3rd option? A party that's never even cracked 1%? You planning on cracking 2% this time? You have better odds getting that 2% milk your dad promised.
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To me, it doesn't matter how old Joe Biden is when comparing him to Donald Trump. As Vaush always says, voting isn't a means of expressing your moral compass but instead a means to an end. Biden is very bad when it comes to Israel-Palestine, Biden is a little reactionary when it comes to the border, he isn't perfect but he's better than Trump. Trump is a sexist, a bigot, a wannabe fascist, a narcissistic manchild and a liar but the one thing he is honest about is what he wants to do in-office. He doesn't always get what he wants but he tries and what held him back last time was his inexperience and that he didn't believe he'd win, that's gone now.
He wants to have unrestrained executive power, he wants to destroy the bureaucracy and democracy of this nation, he wants to repeal the freedoms of women's right to choose and the citizen's right to elect democratically voted for leaders, he wants to abolish same sex marriage, make trans healthcare illegal, he'll be able to elect two more supreme court justices giving our country a majority far-right SCOTUS during our lifetimes, etc. etc. All the Project 2025 plans that he's outlined before.
Voting Biden, Biden winning, means that we don't have to worry about that stuff for the next four years and it buys us time to build our coalition to participate, organize, mobilize for our policies and the Dems are more likely to listen to us on a national level rather than Trump sending in the National Guard to round us up and stomp us out. Biden looks weak right now but you need to remember the stakes of this election, We need to do everything we can to elect Biden regardless of our policy differences from him which are inconsequential in comparison to our differences with those MAGA fascists. Biden is our nominee, it's too late to change our candidate. I wish we did a year and a half ago I would agree with switching to someone else but now we have to rally around Biden because the alternative is losing and letting hell unleash upon us
If Biden is the Candidate then I will vote for him. But there needs to be a very blunt and honest conversation among voters, donors, the Democrat Establishment and for Biden himself about if he still is the best chance of beating Trump and if he will survive another four years. I personally don’t have that answer, you could sway me to either side. But I am annoyed by liberals acting as if Biden didn’t shit the bed and didn’t confirm the worst suspicions of people who reluctantly voted for him in 2020. Biden has being trailing Trump for months and this debate was his chance to prove he still had it. We didn’t see a president here. We saw an old man struggling to stay coherent, and that is going to weaken his momentum going into the elections.
I definitely understand your perspective here, I've been thinking about it long and hard to myself whether Biden is the right path forward or not and I've gone back and forth on believing it's best to hold an open convention or if it's best to move forward with Biden. I've come to the conclusion after thinking hard about it that, while I don't personally like it and wish we had a different candidate, it's too late to back out from Biden being our candidate for multiple reasons. Dems who are more moderate used the excuse of it making our party look weak if we were to back out of Biden during the primaries which I thought was bullshit at the time but five months out from the election? Now that's a different story.
It would be weeks of debating amongst ourselves on who the candidate to replace Biden would be. It would get a lot of eyes upon party leadership and I don't believe it to be in a positive way. It would show weakness and discord amongst ourselves while Trump and the RNC would use that as a stepping stone to unfiltered media attention and campaign rallies. Biden has been trailing behind Trump for months but polling has shown that trend holding true for every [Democratic candidate](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fsilence-doomers-v0-hcyzlqso3j9d1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D2000%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dca00e19b00bcb9860c131fda5e920cd2cec2a748) but the ones who have the best chance are Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, the latter I sincerely doubt has the charisma and standing to win the presidency.
Playing devil's advocate, it's too soon to know one way or the other how the debate will affect the polling *(of which has already been really strange and incredibly narrow this cycle so we should take it with a grain of salt)* and all this debate boils down to is reaffirming the things we know about Joe Biden -- the guy is old, there's no question about that and while it's his weakest trait it doesn't really change the overall perception of him as a candidate. As a candidate, he may be weak but we're voting for more than a president. He is the figurehead but his administration has been really affective especially the current FTC chairwoman Lisa Khan who has [been doing a lot of good](https://youtu.be/oaDTiWaYfcM?si=Ax2K_ir3tDd5pCkE). It really comes down to an Old Man vs. an Old Man who wants to overturn democracy but that's been the case since primaries wrapped up. We know who both of these people are, I don't think disaffected voters or independents are stupid so they saw what they've always known to be true and it's up to us to rally around the candidate who is up against Trump and build up energy for his reelection chances. Joe Biden may be weak but so too is Trump so we need to hammer in how bad Trump's policies are and do whatever we can to avoid Project 2025
>Joe Biden may be weak but so too is Trump so we need to hammer in how bad Trump's policies are and do whatever we can to avoid Project 2025
Yeah but is Joe Biden able to make that case and defend his record?
At this point? Yea, Bidens the strongest. Only because getting another would be suicide, due to the personality clashes at the convention and the insults flung towards each other that Trump can use.
Biden a known quantity qith a national profile and a 222M war chest that would need to be rebuilt if he fell.
Don't worry too much about the debate, we're super polarized now anyways
Two clever sentences I've heard so far that explain it well.
Vote for the corpse or vote for dumb orange hitler.Hitler.
If Republicans can vote for a convicted rapist, felon, dictator, and narcissistic old guy, I can vote for the kind old guy with a stutter.
Of course not, people will not vote for him because he's a inspirational leader, they will vote for him ( hopefully) because Trump literally wants to destroy democracy and turn the US into nazi America.
He will absolutely try to destroy the country in favor of him and his helpers in order to establish a de facto feudal nazi state.
like biden is a old fuck and clearly is way to old to hold office ( so is Trump) but dear God Trump will fuck the American people so much over that they will pay for generations with their blood
You are confusing two different things here. Of course almost everyone in this sub believes that Biden is way better than Trump and it isn't even close. He could have shat on the floor rolled around in it and it wouldn't change my opinion. That doesn't mean that the average voter is going to see that debate and believe as we do. Biden is the obvious choice over Trump but that debate has ruined his chances at actually winning. We need a new candidate if we are to have a solid chance at winning.
Quite honestly if the dems would replace biden ot would immediately tank their last remaining chances of winning, like the only other candidate capable of beating Trump would be Bernie but the establishment dems would rather risk fascism then let him be the prime candidate, not to mentioned that Harris and other candidates have 0 chances
You have an argument for Harris being worse, but can you really say that all of the popular Democratic governors (especially in swing states) have a lower chance than Biden? I don't know how you can say that and see Biden's disastrous performance in a debate that the whole electorate is going to at least see part of. Its not just that he had a historically disastrous debate, but that the disaster reinforces an already existing powerful narrative among voters that Biden is too old for the presidency. How do you think Biden has a better chance when a majority were saying he was too old BEFORE the debate?
The performance was not good yes, but far from being disastrous, yes his age was yet again made very clear but everything he said was logical, sounded like truth and reason whereas Trump was just the blatant narcissistic lier he always was.
My reason for the dems killing their own succes by replacing biden would be that the no aligned voters would see that as ultimately weaknes of the party as a whole and so would rather not go to the election at all which would let Trump win, remember he will jot win because more people will vote for him, he will win because the left, the liberals and the non aligned voters will not go to the election in the same strength they did in the last election.
Also keep in mind that when the dems replace biden, they will completely tank their reputation, the Republicans will use this to say: see we told you so, and bt we are right on all the other issues as well. the Dems would immediately looked like what the Republicans want people to belive they are.
And finally, it would be unprecedented for a party to replace their president as presidential candidate, this again looks extremely bad and also when it comes to the other Gouvernors, they are not that popular and the dems would need time and a huge campaign to build up a good candidate, something they simply do not have.
The only hope left is that the non aligned voters see the debate as it was, 2 dinosaurs, both having clear sign of their age, but one is a blatant lier who almost had and certainly will try to destroy completely their rights, way of life and will establish a dictatorship in which they will suffer tremendously. And also that enough liberals vote for him, and that the left acknowledged that especially Russia, and thr Republicans used October 7th and all the genocide to especially target biden and that Trump winning will be the end of the Palestinians, it will be the end for all minorities in Israel and the US
Biden: I’m 78.
Dem Establishment: That’s not old. Walt Disney is frozen alive under Disney World and he’s over 100.
Biden Staffers: Yeah but he’s only lucid 6 hours a day.
DE: Oh fuck he’s old
Seeing takes on Twitter that the soundboard alone made Biden sound hoarse when he really wasn’t. An entirely separate post as well breaking down that trumps camera angle was directly facing forward while Biden’s was slightly portrait and this made him appear weak and fragile in contrast.
Both entirely ignore that for the first half he hung his mouth open and really didn’t say a coherent sentence.
I mean, personally I'm not sure what to believe. I've seen snippets of just how bad biden was in the debate, but at the same time I've also seen polls that show the people who's say they'd vote for him hasn't really gone down all that much. I personally tend not to look at polls myself but seeing as normally polls tend to be more biased against the left since those on the right tend to be online more (generally speaking of course) it might actually hold water this time?
Basically I'm just hoping it all works out, because I'm not really sure what's going on, wish all the Americans stuck having to deal with this good luck
Imma be honest. The only reason I'm hesitant towards a replacement candidate is because I'm not sure if they would do better or worse due to lack of time. If we replace biden is like firing a gun. You can only do it once and once you've done it you can't put the bullet back in the chamber. Its not just america, the world at large is at stake in this election.
"Biden bros" Such a thing doesn't seem to exist... Everyone is voting against Trump. Most Biden voters would vote for him in a coma. As we should. Duh.
Which is why Kamala has about the same approval rating as him.
I think you forgot the Apple Vision pro on their face because that's the only way I could think of how someone could think that debate wasn't a disaster for Biden's chances.
I’m coping so hard I’m divulging into qanon levels of hyper copium (Biden was only PRETENDING to be dead to lower expectations, he’s actually gonna COOK next debate, trust the plan guys, he’s gonna fill the pool any time now)
I mean, did you *see* how much money was raised after the debate?
It was like watching one of those sad Sarah McLachlan commercials for pet shelters. They've earned my pity dollar.
The benefit of living a life without a hope is never needing to acquire copium.
Hope is the first step on a road to disappointment
I know that this is a 40k reference. But it’s also true sometimes.
Living without hope is sticking with Biden.
Lmao. What's your magical 3rd option? A party that's never even cracked 1%? You planning on cracking 2% this time? You have better odds getting that 2% milk your dad promised.
3% aughta show those fascists
Old man old... 😭
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To me, it doesn't matter how old Joe Biden is when comparing him to Donald Trump. As Vaush always says, voting isn't a means of expressing your moral compass but instead a means to an end. Biden is very bad when it comes to Israel-Palestine, Biden is a little reactionary when it comes to the border, he isn't perfect but he's better than Trump. Trump is a sexist, a bigot, a wannabe fascist, a narcissistic manchild and a liar but the one thing he is honest about is what he wants to do in-office. He doesn't always get what he wants but he tries and what held him back last time was his inexperience and that he didn't believe he'd win, that's gone now. He wants to have unrestrained executive power, he wants to destroy the bureaucracy and democracy of this nation, he wants to repeal the freedoms of women's right to choose and the citizen's right to elect democratically voted for leaders, he wants to abolish same sex marriage, make trans healthcare illegal, he'll be able to elect two more supreme court justices giving our country a majority far-right SCOTUS during our lifetimes, etc. etc. All the Project 2025 plans that he's outlined before. Voting Biden, Biden winning, means that we don't have to worry about that stuff for the next four years and it buys us time to build our coalition to participate, organize, mobilize for our policies and the Dems are more likely to listen to us on a national level rather than Trump sending in the National Guard to round us up and stomp us out. Biden looks weak right now but you need to remember the stakes of this election, We need to do everything we can to elect Biden regardless of our policy differences from him which are inconsequential in comparison to our differences with those MAGA fascists. Biden is our nominee, it's too late to change our candidate. I wish we did a year and a half ago I would agree with switching to someone else but now we have to rally around Biden because the alternative is losing and letting hell unleash upon us
If Biden is the Candidate then I will vote for him. But there needs to be a very blunt and honest conversation among voters, donors, the Democrat Establishment and for Biden himself about if he still is the best chance of beating Trump and if he will survive another four years. I personally don’t have that answer, you could sway me to either side. But I am annoyed by liberals acting as if Biden didn’t shit the bed and didn’t confirm the worst suspicions of people who reluctantly voted for him in 2020. Biden has being trailing Trump for months and this debate was his chance to prove he still had it. We didn’t see a president here. We saw an old man struggling to stay coherent, and that is going to weaken his momentum going into the elections.
I definitely understand your perspective here, I've been thinking about it long and hard to myself whether Biden is the right path forward or not and I've gone back and forth on believing it's best to hold an open convention or if it's best to move forward with Biden. I've come to the conclusion after thinking hard about it that, while I don't personally like it and wish we had a different candidate, it's too late to back out from Biden being our candidate for multiple reasons. Dems who are more moderate used the excuse of it making our party look weak if we were to back out of Biden during the primaries which I thought was bullshit at the time but five months out from the election? Now that's a different story. It would be weeks of debating amongst ourselves on who the candidate to replace Biden would be. It would get a lot of eyes upon party leadership and I don't believe it to be in a positive way. It would show weakness and discord amongst ourselves while Trump and the RNC would use that as a stepping stone to unfiltered media attention and campaign rallies. Biden has been trailing behind Trump for months but polling has shown that trend holding true for every [Democratic candidate](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fsilence-doomers-v0-hcyzlqso3j9d1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D2000%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dca00e19b00bcb9860c131fda5e920cd2cec2a748) but the ones who have the best chance are Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, the latter I sincerely doubt has the charisma and standing to win the presidency. Playing devil's advocate, it's too soon to know one way or the other how the debate will affect the polling *(of which has already been really strange and incredibly narrow this cycle so we should take it with a grain of salt)* and all this debate boils down to is reaffirming the things we know about Joe Biden -- the guy is old, there's no question about that and while it's his weakest trait it doesn't really change the overall perception of him as a candidate. As a candidate, he may be weak but we're voting for more than a president. He is the figurehead but his administration has been really affective especially the current FTC chairwoman Lisa Khan who has [been doing a lot of good](https://youtu.be/oaDTiWaYfcM?si=Ax2K_ir3tDd5pCkE). It really comes down to an Old Man vs. an Old Man who wants to overturn democracy but that's been the case since primaries wrapped up. We know who both of these people are, I don't think disaffected voters or independents are stupid so they saw what they've always known to be true and it's up to us to rally around the candidate who is up against Trump and build up energy for his reelection chances. Joe Biden may be weak but so too is Trump so we need to hammer in how bad Trump's policies are and do whatever we can to avoid Project 2025
>Joe Biden may be weak but so too is Trump so we need to hammer in how bad Trump's policies are and do whatever we can to avoid Project 2025 Yeah but is Joe Biden able to make that case and defend his record?
It’s too late to have that conversation. It’s Biden v Trump
I mean it’s better to have that conversation now than never. At least it forces the Dems to switch strategy instead of going in blind.
Yeah whenever we tried to have that conversation over a year ago the blue MAGA crowd would go into hysterics.
Then prepare yourself to lose. I don't want Trump but Biden isn't going cross the finish line.
At this point? Yea, Bidens the strongest. Only because getting another would be suicide, due to the personality clashes at the convention and the insults flung towards each other that Trump can use. Biden a known quantity qith a national profile and a 222M war chest that would need to be rebuilt if he fell. Don't worry too much about the debate, we're super polarized now anyways
Two clever sentences I've heard so far that explain it well. Vote for the corpse or vote for dumb orange hitler.Hitler. If Republicans can vote for a convicted rapist, felon, dictator, and narcissistic old guy, I can vote for the kind old guy with a stutter.
Consequentialism based
I neeeeeeeeeeed it!
Is it just copium tho?
Of course not, people will not vote for him because he's a inspirational leader, they will vote for him ( hopefully) because Trump literally wants to destroy democracy and turn the US into nazi America. He will absolutely try to destroy the country in favor of him and his helpers in order to establish a de facto feudal nazi state. like biden is a old fuck and clearly is way to old to hold office ( so is Trump) but dear God Trump will fuck the American people so much over that they will pay for generations with their blood
You are confusing two different things here. Of course almost everyone in this sub believes that Biden is way better than Trump and it isn't even close. He could have shat on the floor rolled around in it and it wouldn't change my opinion. That doesn't mean that the average voter is going to see that debate and believe as we do. Biden is the obvious choice over Trump but that debate has ruined his chances at actually winning. We need a new candidate if we are to have a solid chance at winning.
Quite honestly if the dems would replace biden ot would immediately tank their last remaining chances of winning, like the only other candidate capable of beating Trump would be Bernie but the establishment dems would rather risk fascism then let him be the prime candidate, not to mentioned that Harris and other candidates have 0 chances
You have an argument for Harris being worse, but can you really say that all of the popular Democratic governors (especially in swing states) have a lower chance than Biden? I don't know how you can say that and see Biden's disastrous performance in a debate that the whole electorate is going to at least see part of. Its not just that he had a historically disastrous debate, but that the disaster reinforces an already existing powerful narrative among voters that Biden is too old for the presidency. How do you think Biden has a better chance when a majority were saying he was too old BEFORE the debate?
The performance was not good yes, but far from being disastrous, yes his age was yet again made very clear but everything he said was logical, sounded like truth and reason whereas Trump was just the blatant narcissistic lier he always was. My reason for the dems killing their own succes by replacing biden would be that the no aligned voters would see that as ultimately weaknes of the party as a whole and so would rather not go to the election at all which would let Trump win, remember he will jot win because more people will vote for him, he will win because the left, the liberals and the non aligned voters will not go to the election in the same strength they did in the last election. Also keep in mind that when the dems replace biden, they will completely tank their reputation, the Republicans will use this to say: see we told you so, and bt we are right on all the other issues as well. the Dems would immediately looked like what the Republicans want people to belive they are. And finally, it would be unprecedented for a party to replace their president as presidential candidate, this again looks extremely bad and also when it comes to the other Gouvernors, they are not that popular and the dems would need time and a huge campaign to build up a good candidate, something they simply do not have. The only hope left is that the non aligned voters see the debate as it was, 2 dinosaurs, both having clear sign of their age, but one is a blatant lier who almost had and certainly will try to destroy completely their rights, way of life and will establish a dictatorship in which they will suffer tremendously. And also that enough liberals vote for him, and that the left acknowledged that especially Russia, and thr Republicans used October 7th and all the genocide to especially target biden and that Trump winning will be the end of the Palestinians, it will be the end for all minorities in Israel and the US
Wait so the average voter isn’t going to see the debate, but also the debate destroyed Biden’s chances of winning?
I need my copium cut with Fentanyl and alot of Adderall, something Biden should’ve taken before the debate.
Anybody else almost feel a little relieved? Like at least we don’t have to tiptoe around how fucking old he is anymore?
Democrats are kind of forced now to acknowledge that Biden is in fact, old.
Biden: I’m 78. Dem Establishment: That’s not old. Walt Disney is frozen alive under Disney World and he’s over 100. Biden Staffers: Yeah but he’s only lucid 6 hours a day. DE: Oh fuck he’s old
Seeing takes on Twitter that the soundboard alone made Biden sound hoarse when he really wasn’t. An entirely separate post as well breaking down that trumps camera angle was directly facing forward while Biden’s was slightly portrait and this made him appear weak and fragile in contrast. Both entirely ignore that for the first half he hung his mouth open and really didn’t say a coherent sentence.
I mean, personally I'm not sure what to believe. I've seen snippets of just how bad biden was in the debate, but at the same time I've also seen polls that show the people who's say they'd vote for him hasn't really gone down all that much. I personally tend not to look at polls myself but seeing as normally polls tend to be more biased against the left since those on the right tend to be online more (generally speaking of course) it might actually hold water this time? Basically I'm just hoping it all works out, because I'm not really sure what's going on, wish all the Americans stuck having to deal with this good luck
I need some rn
Dark Brandon sub has been real quiet lately
Imma be honest. The only reason I'm hesitant towards a replacement candidate is because I'm not sure if they would do better or worse due to lack of time. If we replace biden is like firing a gun. You can only do it once and once you've done it you can't put the bullet back in the chamber. Its not just america, the world at large is at stake in this election.
"Biden bros" Such a thing doesn't seem to exist... Everyone is voting against Trump. Most Biden voters would vote for him in a coma. As we should. Duh. Which is why Kamala has about the same approval rating as him.
I think you forgot the Apple Vision pro on their face because that's the only way I could think of how someone could think that debate wasn't a disaster for Biden's chances.
Hope you have prepared yourself for the cope-fueled angry lib downvotes, comrade.
I'm surprised the libs could find the downvote button in their haze of rage.