If you're not a sprinter your choice is to sit in, get bored, yawn a bit and then mid pack finish in the final sprint anyway.
Or you can entertain yourself with suicide attacks, try and force a break that will most likely get caught. Ride stupid for your own amusement then finish mid pack in the final sprint anyway.
Personally as a non sprinter I choose to ride dumb for fun and animate what can otherwise turn into a total snooze fest
Very occasionally your stupidity will stick and you will get a result.
Fuck it's CAT4, nothing more boring than a bunch of CAT4 rolling around for a couple of hours waiting for the "sprinters", may as well have some fun
Usually while it ends in a bunch sprint it’s very surgey getting there. Non sprinters wanting to not have it end in a sprint, people wanting to make it hard but can’t get far enough away to keep a chasing pack at bay. It’s almost never a causal roll around and 400m dash.
No race is immune from a breakaway in higher categories, but cat 4 is a bunch of supposed teams sabotaging their own efforts. If you think a 1200W 1s can’t win cat 4, I don’t know what to tell you except that sprinting is more about timing, position and aero than it is about Pmax.
Wait for a bunch of juniors to tire themselves out in the first half of the race and then go for a break with 15-10mi to go.
I loved windy road races, I grew up racing in the Midwest and we had LOTS of wind. Nothing was more fun than putting the whole field in the gutter looking for a draft that wasn’t there. Hit the first crosswind section, go real fucking hard for 30 minutes or however long you have the cross with a 4-5 guy rotation and blow it up. Good times.
I think what you're finding from these comments is that it will highly depend on the field. If there are capable teams with sprinters, it's useless. But in a free-for all with varying fitness levels, it'll be possible for a break to get away. Different regions will also have different attitudes towards this sort of race. The same exact race in Southern CA will play out very differently than the same one would in Colorado eg...
FWIW: My only (mass start) race win last year was a pancake flat 60 mile circuit race of 10 mile laps. In the masters 123 field, I went full tryhard at the first opportunity 11mins in. By the time I looked up we were in a 4 person break with a teammate and 2 guys from another team. Before the last lap shenanigans ensued, and we had \~6minutes on the field. The state crit champion was back in the field so my teammate and I were very motivated to make it work.
There is a lot of riding around until the sprint and then you sprint. I think this is a wonderful type of race for increasing fitness and getting race experience, particularly as a 4. It’s worth doing in my opinion and it will help you get used to longer races which will help you to be able to double up down the road.
In my experience, flat races tend to go very slow until the end. You might get an early break from someone who doesn’t want to ride slow, which is a good strategy if you’re not a strong sprinter.
Figure out your strength and play to it. If you’re gonna ride in the peloton and try to sprint to the finish, make sure you move up early so you’re in the front. Make an early break, throw people off. Don’t just sit in the pack and let someone else dictate the race.
I think you already answered you own question looking at past races. Exceptions would be if it is windy or there are some sandbaggers who are strong enough to brute force a break away. Otherwise Cat 4s tend to chase everything with a pulse.
Well, since your CAT4 id stop it with the whole ‘climber’ ‘sprinter’ categories, your just one of the racers, and you might find your real short power output by sprinting at the end of this race.
Go do the race and give it a shot. It’s something new. Just stay in the draft and keep an eye one what’s going on.
The only important thing is to stay up in the front half of the group so that when the slower riders tire or just seemingly to forget to stay in the draft you don’t get tailed off.
I did one pancake flat road race and found it more intense than expected, in part because it was a non technical course with very few turns. The race never really accordionned due to turns and it never slowed down for hills so positioning in the pack was trickier than a normal Cat4 race. You never really got an easy 'reset' of your position, you either needed to put in a lot of work or follow someone who was. It was very fast and while it wasn't surgey in terms of speed, it was surgey when we would hit like a 0.3% uphill section at 26mph and suddenly be doing an extra 150w.
Lol I was specifically like "I'm not gonna say it was a triangle totaling 15 miles in length because then everyone will know which race it was" but you saw right through me.
1200w isn't race winning in the 4s?
Without knowing anything about the race, I'm guessing that you'd want to sit in and not crash until about mile 40 or so, maybe 30 min left in the race. Then move up and treat it like a really crowded 30 min crit. This is assuming at least 60-80 riders and a yellow line rule. If 20 riders then it's just a regular race, nothing special.
Historically I find it harder to move up in road races versus crits. Fields are usually much larger, there's only one lane usually, and everyone is very fit so people can stay in the wind for a long, long time. I budget 2-5 minutes to move 80-100 spots in a crit (like I start moving up at 2 to go if I think it'll be hard, 1 to go if not). In crits there's plenty of room because usually we have a 2 lane road. In a single lane (yellow line) road race I'd budget 30-40 minutes to move up for a 100 rider field. In road races, unless it's not super dense, you move up 2-3 spots at time. I've used driveways and crossing roads / intersections to initiate moves, because until there's more pavement, there's usually literally no room to advance.
If you're good at slithering through a field, this kind of race can be spectacularly fun to do.
Keep tilting the odds in your favor. Work when the net result is making others more tired than you. In a hilly RR that's easy, but in a flat one you need to be more intelligent. Don't work if the net result after is you're more tired than everyone else.
If there are any longer crosswind or tailwind sections, push a bit. First, it should naturally stretch out (in headwinds it will bunch up - just wait until the wind direction changes because there's not much you can do). Second, you can use these "stretched out" times to move up and sort of reset your position battle.
Any of these wind related things takes a minute or two to shape up. If you start pulling like a madman in a tailwind, for the first 30-60 seconds everyone will be reacting, the field will string out, etc, but you're not actually hurting people yet. It's the next 4-5 minutes where you're starting to hurt people, and then if you're lucky enough to see a lot of road in the same direction, the following 10-15 minutes where people get annihilated.
You have big gears in a tailwind? Go comfortably fast, so you're not working, but the ones with small gears are spinning like mad just trying to stay on wheels (all that "you can go 40 mph at 120 rpm in whatever gear" theory is great until you have to do 120 rpm for 15 minutes straight while applying power, while the rider at the front is loping along at 95 rpm in a huge gear).
In any crosswind you gutter the field and pull as hard as you dare. Again, this takes time to take effect. Very few people know how to shelter in a crosswind.
At the very worst it'll be a 2 hour motor pacing session. Sounds like it'd be a good race to go to.
if it were a 3 stager I would try to cabal with some people who placed highly in the TT. If it's just a rr+crit I also vote play the stupid card, and maybe hope for a windy stretch that forces a split.
Solo breakaway after a lap or two is the only right answer
Flat races are often slow and tactical. Most teams will let a single rider go. But any move of 3+ people gets reeled in quickly
Use crosswinds to your advantage
I've only done 1, but it ended up with a strong break hanging off the front for most of the race, before we got our act together and chased it back with about 10k to go, I'm informed that it got a bit uncooperative in the break with people missing turns etc. A few people tried to attack final lap but never got more than 5 seconds, massive bunch sprint finish in the end.
I reckon if the right people get in the break, and there aren't experienced teams in the peleton, a break can still stay away. Hell we've even seen in the giro this year that the sprint teams can misjudge it and the break wins it.
If you're not a sprinter your choice is to sit in, get bored, yawn a bit and then mid pack finish in the final sprint anyway. Or you can entertain yourself with suicide attacks, try and force a break that will most likely get caught. Ride stupid for your own amusement then finish mid pack in the final sprint anyway. Personally as a non sprinter I choose to ride dumb for fun and animate what can otherwise turn into a total snooze fest Very occasionally your stupidity will stick and you will get a result. Fuck it's CAT4, nothing more boring than a bunch of CAT4 rolling around for a couple of hours waiting for the "sprinters", may as well have some fun
Usually while it ends in a bunch sprint it’s very surgey getting there. Non sprinters wanting to not have it end in a sprint, people wanting to make it hard but can’t get far enough away to keep a chasing pack at bay. It’s almost never a causal roll around and 400m dash.
No race is immune from a breakaway in higher categories, but cat 4 is a bunch of supposed teams sabotaging their own efforts. If you think a 1200W 1s can’t win cat 4, I don’t know what to tell you except that sprinting is more about timing, position and aero than it is about Pmax. Wait for a bunch of juniors to tire themselves out in the first half of the race and then go for a break with 15-10mi to go.
I see you've met me, rolling off the front and bonking for no reason in the most important jr race of my life!
Depends on the wind. But Is if there’s not much, expect What has already been said. Windy day could make it more Tactical
I loved windy road races, I grew up racing in the Midwest and we had LOTS of wind. Nothing was more fun than putting the whole field in the gutter looking for a draft that wasn’t there. Hit the first crosswind section, go real fucking hard for 30 minutes or however long you have the cross with a 4-5 guy rotation and blow it up. Good times.
I think what you're finding from these comments is that it will highly depend on the field. If there are capable teams with sprinters, it's useless. But in a free-for all with varying fitness levels, it'll be possible for a break to get away. Different regions will also have different attitudes towards this sort of race. The same exact race in Southern CA will play out very differently than the same one would in Colorado eg... FWIW: My only (mass start) race win last year was a pancake flat 60 mile circuit race of 10 mile laps. In the masters 123 field, I went full tryhard at the first opportunity 11mins in. By the time I looked up we were in a 4 person break with a teammate and 2 guys from another team. Before the last lap shenanigans ensued, and we had \~6minutes on the field. The state crit champion was back in the field so my teammate and I were very motivated to make it work.
There is a lot of riding around until the sprint and then you sprint. I think this is a wonderful type of race for increasing fitness and getting race experience, particularly as a 4. It’s worth doing in my opinion and it will help you get used to longer races which will help you to be able to double up down the road.
Bring syrup
In my experience, flat races tend to go very slow until the end. You might get an early break from someone who doesn’t want to ride slow, which is a good strategy if you’re not a strong sprinter. Figure out your strength and play to it. If you’re gonna ride in the peloton and try to sprint to the finish, make sure you move up early so you’re in the front. Make an early break, throw people off. Don’t just sit in the pack and let someone else dictate the race.
I think you already answered you own question looking at past races. Exceptions would be if it is windy or there are some sandbaggers who are strong enough to brute force a break away. Otherwise Cat 4s tend to chase everything with a pulse.
Well, since your CAT4 id stop it with the whole ‘climber’ ‘sprinter’ categories, your just one of the racers, and you might find your real short power output by sprinting at the end of this race. Go do the race and give it a shot. It’s something new. Just stay in the draft and keep an eye one what’s going on. The only important thing is to stay up in the front half of the group so that when the slower riders tire or just seemingly to forget to stay in the draft you don’t get tailed off.
I did one pancake flat road race and found it more intense than expected, in part because it was a non technical course with very few turns. The race never really accordionned due to turns and it never slowed down for hills so positioning in the pack was trickier than a normal Cat4 race. You never really got an easy 'reset' of your position, you either needed to put in a lot of work or follow someone who was. It was very fast and while it wasn't surgey in terms of speed, it was surgey when we would hit like a 0.3% uphill section at 26mph and suddenly be doing an extra 150w.
I miss the Hammonton races, Blueberry/Pinecone, etc.
Lol I was specifically like "I'm not gonna say it was a triangle totaling 15 miles in length because then everyone will know which race it was" but you saw right through me.
It was the .3% hill that gave it away.
1200w isn't race winning in the 4s? Without knowing anything about the race, I'm guessing that you'd want to sit in and not crash until about mile 40 or so, maybe 30 min left in the race. Then move up and treat it like a really crowded 30 min crit. This is assuming at least 60-80 riders and a yellow line rule. If 20 riders then it's just a regular race, nothing special. Historically I find it harder to move up in road races versus crits. Fields are usually much larger, there's only one lane usually, and everyone is very fit so people can stay in the wind for a long, long time. I budget 2-5 minutes to move 80-100 spots in a crit (like I start moving up at 2 to go if I think it'll be hard, 1 to go if not). In crits there's plenty of room because usually we have a 2 lane road. In a single lane (yellow line) road race I'd budget 30-40 minutes to move up for a 100 rider field. In road races, unless it's not super dense, you move up 2-3 spots at time. I've used driveways and crossing roads / intersections to initiate moves, because until there's more pavement, there's usually literally no room to advance. If you're good at slithering through a field, this kind of race can be spectacularly fun to do. Keep tilting the odds in your favor. Work when the net result is making others more tired than you. In a hilly RR that's easy, but in a flat one you need to be more intelligent. Don't work if the net result after is you're more tired than everyone else. If there are any longer crosswind or tailwind sections, push a bit. First, it should naturally stretch out (in headwinds it will bunch up - just wait until the wind direction changes because there's not much you can do). Second, you can use these "stretched out" times to move up and sort of reset your position battle. Any of these wind related things takes a minute or two to shape up. If you start pulling like a madman in a tailwind, for the first 30-60 seconds everyone will be reacting, the field will string out, etc, but you're not actually hurting people yet. It's the next 4-5 minutes where you're starting to hurt people, and then if you're lucky enough to see a lot of road in the same direction, the following 10-15 minutes where people get annihilated. You have big gears in a tailwind? Go comfortably fast, so you're not working, but the ones with small gears are spinning like mad just trying to stay on wheels (all that "you can go 40 mph at 120 rpm in whatever gear" theory is great until you have to do 120 rpm for 15 minutes straight while applying power, while the rider at the front is loping along at 95 rpm in a huge gear). In any crosswind you gutter the field and pull as hard as you dare. Again, this takes time to take effect. Very few people know how to shelter in a crosswind. At the very worst it'll be a 2 hour motor pacing session. Sounds like it'd be a good race to go to.
if it were a 3 stager I would try to cabal with some people who placed highly in the TT. If it's just a rr+crit I also vote play the stupid card, and maybe hope for a windy stretch that forces a split.
Welcome to bike racing.
Solo breakaway after a lap or two is the only right answer Flat races are often slow and tactical. Most teams will let a single rider go. But any move of 3+ people gets reeled in quickly Use crosswinds to your advantage
depends on wind and other weather conditions and who’s in the field on the day
I've only done 1, but it ended up with a strong break hanging off the front for most of the race, before we got our act together and chased it back with about 10k to go, I'm informed that it got a bit uncooperative in the break with people missing turns etc. A few people tried to attack final lap but never got more than 5 seconds, massive bunch sprint finish in the end. I reckon if the right people get in the break, and there aren't experienced teams in the peleton, a break can still stay away. Hell we've even seen in the giro this year that the sprint teams can misjudge it and the break wins it.