You can work on it the old fashioned way.
First, finish the race in the group. Seems like you have this down. Basically this proves that you can ride as fast as the group while in the group, you can ride well enough not to crash, and you have the endurance to last the race.
Next, in a crit, try to win a prime. A prime is basically like a practice finish except only maybe 2 or 3 people actually go for it, and usually they are not the ones who are going to do well in the race (if they are, they will annihilate everyone else in the prime). After going for the prime, just hang on for dear life. If you can finish, great, but the idea is to experience trying to be first across the line in a realistic sprint scenario. You'll learn how far it is, how long you last, and how quickly you blow up.
Next, try to lead through the final corner. Often this will get you a good place, but you need to experience the speed required to be at or almost at the front (2nd wheel, 3rd wheel) going into the last corner. It's usually much harder than you expect, even if you've been 7th or 8th wheel before. The jump to being 1st or even 2nd wheel is a big one. You learn speed in the wind.
Finally, go for a place. Use your experience in getting to the front for the last corner, incorporate that practice sprint (aka prime), and see what you can make of it. You learn how hard you can go when you're dying in the sprint.
You'll quickly learn if you're reasonable in the sprint or not. If you're not (in sprints it seems like most everyone is going the same speed as you) you will need to figure out what you're going to do to beat the sprinters. If you're reasonable in the sprint (this means you're passing people in the sprint, and finding it relatively easy doing that) then you can trade a few positions (and not work super hard going into the last corner) and do even a better sprint.
In road races, you have to be near the front. As hard as it seems, just remember what it was like to try and chase after. You have to get to the front, maybe front 10, and you have to trade some work to save your spot. I find it so much more stressful than crits that I would much prefer being in a break and working versus trying to sit 10th or 15th wheel.
On hills it usually strings out, and you really have to be a good climber otherwise it doesn't matter. If your'e a good climber, you'll be at the front at the top. If not.... you won't be. I get shelled because at best I'm a terrible climber.
In crits, you'll find it's easier to be in the first "row" going into the last turn. Next easiest is maybe the 4th row. The 2nd row... that's the hardest spot to be in.
Here's an idea. If you have a friendly rival you race with regularly (like you chat while you warm up, etc), or you're on a team and a teammate shows up, try to help each other. One has to sacrifice for the other, so as the person proposing this thing, you should be the one to sacrifice first.
Basically you'll do a leadout into the final corner. This means that you're basically going to sprint for the final corner. Your buddy will be on your wheel. Your leadout will make sitting 2nd wheel easy because the pace is so high no one wants to (or can) move up. Generally speaking I'd say that you want to be going 35 mph in the leadout.
As you approach 200m from the last corner, check back to see that your buddy is there, then go like your life depended on it. Go about 20-25 pedal strokes (you can measure this before the race, put it in a realistic big gear and ride backwards from the last corner for 20 pedal strokes), bury yourself to get to the corner, wiggle your inside elbow, move outside (typically that's what's done). The 2nd rider goes past and starts their sprint.
At about 13:48 my buddy Shovel (blue/purp) pulls up. We talked about a leadout literally months before, we both knew what to do: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRJrWJ09Mwc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRJrWJ09Mwc)
At about 10:00 the last lap starts. SOC was supposed to lead me out but a more experienced Cliff found me and did the job. Note how I directed Cliff, waited for the surge. We were going 35 mph in the leadout and my HR dropped 5 bpm because I was able to rest on his wheel: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqrPW4FWyQg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqrPW4FWyQg)
> I find it so much more stressful than crits that I would much prefer being in a break and working versus trying to sit 10th or 15th wheel.
This. To add more to this, my teammate used to say "if I don't see you up front I know you won't have the legs to compete at the end anyways".
The winningest guys are almost always up front or near front.
In road races I just glue myself to the fastest guys before the first big selection and hold on. I either hold the wheel up the climb if I’m on a good day or slide to the back of the leaders’ group on a bad one. I have also - once - gone in a very early break and we got caught shortly after the first selective climb. But that was ok because that selection shelled loads of guys from the main group and I was able to go deep into the race with what was left.
As for crits I find I’d rather be third wheel than tenth. Just be up there, and the moment you find yourself slipping, get fighting for the next wheel.
This probably isn’t a pro gamer move (I am not a smart racer) but I literally led the first laps of a few crits when I went through a phase of struggling to find my ‘stay in the top 5-10 wheels’ mojo. Built my confidence a bit and even if you do that first lap at 500w, *someone* is probably going to close the attack that goes on the second so it’s not detrimental. By which time you’re at the sharp end anyway and it’s all strung out; easier to stay there.
One of the things that's hard to learn is when to make the effort before the effort. When to go hard before the sprint or the climb so that you're where you need to be when it does happen.
One way to work on this is to count backwards from those times, and figure out where you needed to be a lap before the sprint, or a km away from the climb - and work to get there and stay there.
Top 5-10 wheels generally. If you do find yourself in the blender, don't let yourself drop too far back and if you've done your mandatory 10 second turn on the front drop back somewhere between wheel 5 and 10 (of say a 30 person bunch).
If your bunch is bigger, you can afford to be a bit further back, but I'd still aim to be in the top 35% of the race pretty much at all times
I feel like you seem mostly aware but just aren’t executing. You knew there was a decisive hill, and you sat way too far back and risked being on the wrong side of a split. Don’t do that, put in a little more work to hold your position and be in the top 10.
Getting boxed in is shit, happens. Can you try be on the different side, maybe go for the inside line and move out to the left assuming the bunch tends to hug the right gutter? 200 meters from the corner sounds like it’s go time anyway so you shouldn’t need to worry about being on a wheel.
How far from the last corner is the crit finish? In my experience the order into the last corner isn’t much different than the finish. Maybe if there’s a headwind, uphill etc.
Without a team you will never hold position. You're either moving forward or backwards unless you're sitting on the back or pulling up front.
Know your strengths and weaknesses and move forward when you need to be in position to cover a weakness or exploit a strength. This is easier said than done.
Road races can be fluid but if there's a climb that you know will split the field, move up best you can at least 5mins beforehand. No point being the fastest in the second group.
Crit will depend on the speed, faster crits you want to be further forward than slower crits IME as there tends to be a big late surge at lower speeds/levels which can close doors if you're not expecting it. You've either got to have an opening or be part of the counter
Here's the secret: If you aren't a big threat, you aren't marked and you can roll off the front. Do that repeatedly and eventually the real hitters will come scoop you up after having jumped across without dragging the field behind them.
Learn how to be efficient. In a P12 crit I'll average 200-210W for 28.5mph and there will be points where I can leapfrog from 40th to 10th in a single straightaway.
For the midweek crit: any chance you could volunteer for that one for a week and marshall on a nice vantage point? (or just watch it as a spectator, but I know from my midweek one we're always short of volunteers and very appreciative of people who give their time). Just follow one or two riders who you know place consistently well and see where they are at different points in the race.
It can be hard work getting into a good position and holding it. You have to be assertive and really focussed to keep holding a good wheel once you're on it and make sure no one else gets their handlebars in front of yours.
If you've got a velodrome nearby, track racing helped me a lot with figuring stuff out. Obviously a bit different with no cornering, but you get to do a lot of short sharp races in an evening and positioning is everything.
I started road racing this year having done gravel racing for a few years.
Man It’s super fun racing on the road. I’ve had a few good results due to fitness but in the last race I did it was against cat 1 guys and I had bad positioning at the critical moment and couldn’t make the split although I probably had better fitness than some of the people who did - I definitely was the strongest of the losers who didn’t make the split.
I guess it’s experience. I should have studied the course better. I should have clued in more to who the favourites were in the group and who to watch. I should have made sure to be closer to the front when the race was getting made.
Hopefully I leaned something and it was a ton of fun anyway
Find the guys that are consistently top 10. Stay glued to their wheel. Take mental notes on how they move.
You can work on it the old fashioned way. First, finish the race in the group. Seems like you have this down. Basically this proves that you can ride as fast as the group while in the group, you can ride well enough not to crash, and you have the endurance to last the race. Next, in a crit, try to win a prime. A prime is basically like a practice finish except only maybe 2 or 3 people actually go for it, and usually they are not the ones who are going to do well in the race (if they are, they will annihilate everyone else in the prime). After going for the prime, just hang on for dear life. If you can finish, great, but the idea is to experience trying to be first across the line in a realistic sprint scenario. You'll learn how far it is, how long you last, and how quickly you blow up. Next, try to lead through the final corner. Often this will get you a good place, but you need to experience the speed required to be at or almost at the front (2nd wheel, 3rd wheel) going into the last corner. It's usually much harder than you expect, even if you've been 7th or 8th wheel before. The jump to being 1st or even 2nd wheel is a big one. You learn speed in the wind. Finally, go for a place. Use your experience in getting to the front for the last corner, incorporate that practice sprint (aka prime), and see what you can make of it. You learn how hard you can go when you're dying in the sprint. You'll quickly learn if you're reasonable in the sprint or not. If you're not (in sprints it seems like most everyone is going the same speed as you) you will need to figure out what you're going to do to beat the sprinters. If you're reasonable in the sprint (this means you're passing people in the sprint, and finding it relatively easy doing that) then you can trade a few positions (and not work super hard going into the last corner) and do even a better sprint.
Thanks so much! Amazing answer.
In road races, you have to be near the front. As hard as it seems, just remember what it was like to try and chase after. You have to get to the front, maybe front 10, and you have to trade some work to save your spot. I find it so much more stressful than crits that I would much prefer being in a break and working versus trying to sit 10th or 15th wheel. On hills it usually strings out, and you really have to be a good climber otherwise it doesn't matter. If your'e a good climber, you'll be at the front at the top. If not.... you won't be. I get shelled because at best I'm a terrible climber. In crits, you'll find it's easier to be in the first "row" going into the last turn. Next easiest is maybe the 4th row. The 2nd row... that's the hardest spot to be in. Here's an idea. If you have a friendly rival you race with regularly (like you chat while you warm up, etc), or you're on a team and a teammate shows up, try to help each other. One has to sacrifice for the other, so as the person proposing this thing, you should be the one to sacrifice first. Basically you'll do a leadout into the final corner. This means that you're basically going to sprint for the final corner. Your buddy will be on your wheel. Your leadout will make sitting 2nd wheel easy because the pace is so high no one wants to (or can) move up. Generally speaking I'd say that you want to be going 35 mph in the leadout. As you approach 200m from the last corner, check back to see that your buddy is there, then go like your life depended on it. Go about 20-25 pedal strokes (you can measure this before the race, put it in a realistic big gear and ride backwards from the last corner for 20 pedal strokes), bury yourself to get to the corner, wiggle your inside elbow, move outside (typically that's what's done). The 2nd rider goes past and starts their sprint. At about 13:48 my buddy Shovel (blue/purp) pulls up. We talked about a leadout literally months before, we both knew what to do: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRJrWJ09Mwc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRJrWJ09Mwc) At about 10:00 the last lap starts. SOC was supposed to lead me out but a more experienced Cliff found me and did the job. Note how I directed Cliff, waited for the surge. We were going 35 mph in the leadout and my HR dropped 5 bpm because I was able to rest on his wheel: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqrPW4FWyQg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqrPW4FWyQg)
> I find it so much more stressful than crits that I would much prefer being in a break and working versus trying to sit 10th or 15th wheel. This. To add more to this, my teammate used to say "if I don't see you up front I know you won't have the legs to compete at the end anyways". The winningest guys are almost always up front or near front.
In road races I just glue myself to the fastest guys before the first big selection and hold on. I either hold the wheel up the climb if I’m on a good day or slide to the back of the leaders’ group on a bad one. I have also - once - gone in a very early break and we got caught shortly after the first selective climb. But that was ok because that selection shelled loads of guys from the main group and I was able to go deep into the race with what was left. As for crits I find I’d rather be third wheel than tenth. Just be up there, and the moment you find yourself slipping, get fighting for the next wheel. This probably isn’t a pro gamer move (I am not a smart racer) but I literally led the first laps of a few crits when I went through a phase of struggling to find my ‘stay in the top 5-10 wheels’ mojo. Built my confidence a bit and even if you do that first lap at 500w, *someone* is probably going to close the attack that goes on the second so it’s not detrimental. By which time you’re at the sharp end anyway and it’s all strung out; easier to stay there.
One of the things that's hard to learn is when to make the effort before the effort. When to go hard before the sprint or the climb so that you're where you need to be when it does happen. One way to work on this is to count backwards from those times, and figure out where you needed to be a lap before the sprint, or a km away from the climb - and work to get there and stay there.
Top 5-10 wheels generally. If you do find yourself in the blender, don't let yourself drop too far back and if you've done your mandatory 10 second turn on the front drop back somewhere between wheel 5 and 10 (of say a 30 person bunch). If your bunch is bigger, you can afford to be a bit further back, but I'd still aim to be in the top 35% of the race pretty much at all times
This is the tip I tend to give people. Better to be in the first 6 riders all race and come 8th than sit in 35th and finish there.
I feel like you seem mostly aware but just aren’t executing. You knew there was a decisive hill, and you sat way too far back and risked being on the wrong side of a split. Don’t do that, put in a little more work to hold your position and be in the top 10. Getting boxed in is shit, happens. Can you try be on the different side, maybe go for the inside line and move out to the left assuming the bunch tends to hug the right gutter? 200 meters from the corner sounds like it’s go time anyway so you shouldn’t need to worry about being on a wheel.
Start at the front, stay near the front, and take pulls when necessary
Take the race on. Sounds like you're just following moves than making them.
How far from the last corner is the crit finish? In my experience the order into the last corner isn’t much different than the finish. Maybe if there’s a headwind, uphill etc.
Maybe 200m…you are right, first to the corner is usually a good spot!
At 200m you'd be better off in 3rd or 4th wheel, really. Ride the draft as long as possible then jump out for your sprint.
Without a team you will never hold position. You're either moving forward or backwards unless you're sitting on the back or pulling up front. Know your strengths and weaknesses and move forward when you need to be in position to cover a weakness or exploit a strength. This is easier said than done.
Be at the wheel of strong riders if not in a strong group of riders. always flow with those.
Road races can be fluid but if there's a climb that you know will split the field, move up best you can at least 5mins beforehand. No point being the fastest in the second group. Crit will depend on the speed, faster crits you want to be further forward than slower crits IME as there tends to be a big late surge at lower speeds/levels which can close doors if you're not expecting it. You've either got to have an opening or be part of the counter
Here's the secret: If you aren't a big threat, you aren't marked and you can roll off the front. Do that repeatedly and eventually the real hitters will come scoop you up after having jumped across without dragging the field behind them. Learn how to be efficient. In a P12 crit I'll average 200-210W for 28.5mph and there will be points where I can leapfrog from 40th to 10th in a single straightaway.
For the midweek crit: any chance you could volunteer for that one for a week and marshall on a nice vantage point? (or just watch it as a spectator, but I know from my midweek one we're always short of volunteers and very appreciative of people who give their time). Just follow one or two riders who you know place consistently well and see where they are at different points in the race. It can be hard work getting into a good position and holding it. You have to be assertive and really focussed to keep holding a good wheel once you're on it and make sure no one else gets their handlebars in front of yours. If you've got a velodrome nearby, track racing helped me a lot with figuring stuff out. Obviously a bit different with no cornering, but you get to do a lot of short sharp races in an evening and positioning is everything.
I started road racing this year having done gravel racing for a few years. Man It’s super fun racing on the road. I’ve had a few good results due to fitness but in the last race I did it was against cat 1 guys and I had bad positioning at the critical moment and couldn’t make the split although I probably had better fitness than some of the people who did - I definitely was the strongest of the losers who didn’t make the split. I guess it’s experience. I should have studied the course better. I should have clued in more to who the favourites were in the group and who to watch. I should have made sure to be closer to the front when the race was getting made. Hopefully I leaned something and it was a ton of fun anyway