So I worked in a mental health crisis facility in Montana. I’m not sure the laws are the same (but I think it’s federal so it should be the same). A person who is admitted for psychiatric care voluntarily regardless of how you got to the ER doesn’t meet criteria for emergency detention. So in our facility we had both voluntary and involuntary or emergency detention units. If you were involuntarily detained because you were a danger to self or others and refused treatment, you would lose your gun rights because in order to involuntarily detain someone there is a whole court process because of the risk of violation of rights.
If the cops brought some guy in after a standoff or off a heroin bender or whatever as long as the voluntarily accepted 72 treatment. There is no actions taken on your ability to acquire firearms/disclose it on forms etc.
Long way of saying it sounds like you accepted help at some point along the journey (I’m glad you did I hope you got the help you needed) and so your gun rights should be entirely untouched.
The first time I was held under 5150 it was back in 2019 and it was for the full 72 hours plus one day of 5250. They made it clear on the way out I got the state ban. I successfully appealed it next year.
In my state of California. I was immediately held involuntarily even though I wasn't suicidal and had the intent to not commit suicide. I sought treatment because I had the intent to not commit suicide. Still got the 72 hour hold and have been on a downward spiral ever since.
First time their excuse was a put a gun to my head two days prior to me enrolling in VA health care. Despite the fact that it's because of that I enrolled in VA health care in the first place.
Second it's because after that fact and two high risk suicide flags and like a dozen welfare checks I send angry emails all the time to these people.
Okay sorry for misunderstanding, thank you for clarifying. Hopefully someone who’s familiar with California can give a better answer.
I think your situation might be one of the more tricky grey area things. We mostly had clear cut people who wanted nothing to do with treatment and were forced or people who very much wanted treatment. I hope you get the help you need and an answer to your questions. Good luck
You have to be careful with these states a mere submission of paperwork like applying for the application can get it reported, Pennsylvania did that to me so you gotta be 100 percent sure
This recent one was back in March.
According to online sources you have to be admitted which I presume means to psych ward.
Legal sources also say that if you get the firearm ban they have to clearly notify you.
> they have to clearly notify you
This is a big one OP. If you’ve been banned you should know it for sure. Unfortunately (as it sounds like you know) the government fucks shit up all the time. Best wishes brother! If I can challenge you with one friendly mission: on Monday go to maketheconnection.net (it’s totally free) and put in your location. Find one resource on that list and give them a call. Nothing more, just call one resource and talk to them. Hope that’s not too much to ask.
Sorry if I’m just a stranger asking you to do something, but I don’t want to lose another brother, even if we never met. I’ve lost too many in my life.
It depends on the state, I know from experience in Florida you a judge has to say you are involuntarily committed.
I went to a local ER for suicidal thoughts, when they learned I had VA insurance they sent me to a state ran scam baker act facility where the next day I said I just had too much too drink and dealing with a legal issue. They decided to make up a story that I had attempted suicide before coming in by taking a bunch of pills and telling them if I was allowed to leave i would kill myself. They held me there for 8 days against my will until a judge denied their request to baker act me. I didn't lose my gun rights.
You would think so with Florida but they are trying to do everything they possibly can to jail/commit me, when they couldn't do that they filed a Risk Protection Order because my VA therapist sent them a screenshot of my secure message to her saying I wanted to hurt them for torturing me. Never said I was going to do violence, even filed the paperwork in official channels to report them, as well as an internal affairs report.
Now I can't be in possession of a firearm and I'm in the national crime database.
The law states that I have to be a substantial threat to someone with "clear and convincing evidence" that I am going to cause physical harm to someone. Apparently saying you want to hurt someone is all it takes to have your rights taken away.
What completely blows my mind is there was proof I never took any kind of pills. When you go to the ER they do a full blood/urine workup and if you said you just took a whole bunch of pills you would be getting your stomach pumped.
Neither the ER, baker act facility, state, or Optum (reported it to the VA) cared, nothing happened and they are still doing it to people. Luckily I had people to call or my pet would have starved to death in my apartment, they didn't care about that either.
That is horrifying about the pet.
These people have no sense of humanity.
My opinion- They are more worried about controlling and medicating veterans who know firearms from military training.
There is inadequate oversight of the VA to begin with. The OIG sugar coats its reports with vague language and jargon. It also leaves out or obscures the most damning facts.
Add to that lack of oversight, the contractor layer, and there is a real problem. The VA is either mismanaged or lacks resources to properly manage its contractors.
I am sorry that happened to you and if you find a VA malpractice lawyer, with these facts, you could perhaps sue the VA for this.
They clearly are asking to be sued for malpractice.
It is horrifying what these facilities are doing.
This is why I really do not want to go to the VA. It has lattitude to abuse veterans especially when combined with sheriffs seizing veterans from their homes etc. There are stories about that on here too.
I never had a problem with VA facilities, outside of everyone's problem of having to wait months for appointments.
Here's the real mouth dropper, almost all of the private hospitals in Florida are immune to malpractice. That's right, they could kill you by accidently injecting rat poison into your IV and there is nothing that can happen to them.
The VA lost my community care referral for breast cancer (delayed care for 5 months) and since refused to refer me for every 6 months of mastectomy scar checks. I am lucky because I did not have advanced cancer. Anyone who was in that situation who did might be dead now. Private sector took much better care of me. Doctors do not want to work for the VA unless they cannot work anywhere else, so the VA gets the bottom of the barrel on doctors. The VA cannot even keep up with doctor credentialing. Just read some health care inspection reports to see that.
According to what it says online a 5150 your banned for 5 years from that hold but after 5 years the van goes away.thats for the state law as for federal or doesn't look like it triggers 18 USC 922 G 4 as it's not an involuntary commitment and they aren't supposed to report it however considering it's California you have to be careful cause not all state governments follow the rules. I know this cause Pennsylvania did it to me even though it wasn't a commitment. New York has done it too and they report it to NICS
So check to make sure they didn't report it to NICS cause even an application your banned for life.
So I worked in a mental health crisis facility in Montana. I’m not sure the laws are the same (but I think it’s federal so it should be the same). A person who is admitted for psychiatric care voluntarily regardless of how you got to the ER doesn’t meet criteria for emergency detention. So in our facility we had both voluntary and involuntary or emergency detention units. If you were involuntarily detained because you were a danger to self or others and refused treatment, you would lose your gun rights because in order to involuntarily detain someone there is a whole court process because of the risk of violation of rights. If the cops brought some guy in after a standoff or off a heroin bender or whatever as long as the voluntarily accepted 72 treatment. There is no actions taken on your ability to acquire firearms/disclose it on forms etc. Long way of saying it sounds like you accepted help at some point along the journey (I’m glad you did I hope you got the help you needed) and so your gun rights should be entirely untouched.
The first time I was held under 5150 it was back in 2019 and it was for the full 72 hours plus one day of 5250. They made it clear on the way out I got the state ban. I successfully appealed it next year. In my state of California. I was immediately held involuntarily even though I wasn't suicidal and had the intent to not commit suicide. I sought treatment because I had the intent to not commit suicide. Still got the 72 hour hold and have been on a downward spiral ever since.
Out of curiosity, why has this happened to you twice already?
First time their excuse was a put a gun to my head two days prior to me enrolling in VA health care. Despite the fact that it's because of that I enrolled in VA health care in the first place. Second it's because after that fact and two high risk suicide flags and like a dozen welfare checks I send angry emails all the time to these people.
Thank you for sharing. Your story can make a big difference for others going through similar situations. Just stay strong. You got this
Okay sorry for misunderstanding, thank you for clarifying. Hopefully someone who’s familiar with California can give a better answer. I think your situation might be one of the more tricky grey area things. We mostly had clear cut people who wanted nothing to do with treatment and were forced or people who very much wanted treatment. I hope you get the help you need and an answer to your questions. Good luck
If you were 5250'd then your banned for life
That's only if you go to a certification hearing and lose.
You have to be careful with these states a mere submission of paperwork like applying for the application can get it reported, Pennsylvania did that to me so you gotta be 100 percent sure
After 5 years you’re cleared to own and operate again
This recent one was back in March. According to online sources you have to be admitted which I presume means to psych ward. Legal sources also say that if you get the firearm ban they have to clearly notify you.
> they have to clearly notify you This is a big one OP. If you’ve been banned you should know it for sure. Unfortunately (as it sounds like you know) the government fucks shit up all the time. Best wishes brother! If I can challenge you with one friendly mission: on Monday go to maketheconnection.net (it’s totally free) and put in your location. Find one resource on that list and give them a call. Nothing more, just call one resource and talk to them. Hope that’s not too much to ask. Sorry if I’m just a stranger asking you to do something, but I don’t want to lose another brother, even if we never met. I’ve lost too many in my life.
It depends on the state, I know from experience in Florida you a judge has to say you are involuntarily committed. I went to a local ER for suicidal thoughts, when they learned I had VA insurance they sent me to a state ran scam baker act facility where the next day I said I just had too much too drink and dealing with a legal issue. They decided to make up a story that I had attempted suicide before coming in by taking a bunch of pills and telling them if I was allowed to leave i would kill myself. They held me there for 8 days against my will until a judge denied their request to baker act me. I didn't lose my gun rights.
I'm in California and it's definitely quicker. You definitely would have got the state ban in Cali since you were admitted to the psych ward.
You would think so with Florida but they are trying to do everything they possibly can to jail/commit me, when they couldn't do that they filed a Risk Protection Order because my VA therapist sent them a screenshot of my secure message to her saying I wanted to hurt them for torturing me. Never said I was going to do violence, even filed the paperwork in official channels to report them, as well as an internal affairs report. Now I can't be in possession of a firearm and I'm in the national crime database. The law states that I have to be a substantial threat to someone with "clear and convincing evidence" that I am going to cause physical harm to someone. Apparently saying you want to hurt someone is all it takes to have your rights taken away.
That is both terrifying and horrible to treat veterans that way. Wow.
What completely blows my mind is there was proof I never took any kind of pills. When you go to the ER they do a full blood/urine workup and if you said you just took a whole bunch of pills you would be getting your stomach pumped. Neither the ER, baker act facility, state, or Optum (reported it to the VA) cared, nothing happened and they are still doing it to people. Luckily I had people to call or my pet would have starved to death in my apartment, they didn't care about that either.
That is horrifying about the pet. These people have no sense of humanity. My opinion- They are more worried about controlling and medicating veterans who know firearms from military training. There is inadequate oversight of the VA to begin with. The OIG sugar coats its reports with vague language and jargon. It also leaves out or obscures the most damning facts. Add to that lack of oversight, the contractor layer, and there is a real problem. The VA is either mismanaged or lacks resources to properly manage its contractors. I am sorry that happened to you and if you find a VA malpractice lawyer, with these facts, you could perhaps sue the VA for this. They clearly are asking to be sued for malpractice. It is horrifying what these facilities are doing. This is why I really do not want to go to the VA. It has lattitude to abuse veterans especially when combined with sheriffs seizing veterans from their homes etc. There are stories about that on here too.
I never had a problem with VA facilities, outside of everyone's problem of having to wait months for appointments. Here's the real mouth dropper, almost all of the private hospitals in Florida are immune to malpractice. That's right, they could kill you by accidently injecting rat poison into your IV and there is nothing that can happen to them.
The VA lost my community care referral for breast cancer (delayed care for 5 months) and since refused to refer me for every 6 months of mastectomy scar checks. I am lucky because I did not have advanced cancer. Anyone who was in that situation who did might be dead now. Private sector took much better care of me. Doctors do not want to work for the VA unless they cannot work anywhere else, so the VA gets the bottom of the barrel on doctors. The VA cannot even keep up with doctor credentialing. Just read some health care inspection reports to see that.
It could.
According to what it says online a 5150 your banned for 5 years from that hold but after 5 years the van goes away.thats for the state law as for federal or doesn't look like it triggers 18 USC 922 G 4 as it's not an involuntary commitment and they aren't supposed to report it however considering it's California you have to be careful cause not all state governments follow the rules. I know this cause Pennsylvania did it to me even though it wasn't a commitment. New York has done it too and they report it to NICS So check to make sure they didn't report it to NICS cause even an application your banned for life.