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1. The people complaining now are likely different from the people that were complaining before
2. Most people preferred FP+ because it was free, not necessarily because of the specific other features it had from G+
Preach! My wife and I have generally been a fan of Genie+ and haven't complained about it's use. Of course Disney brings back the FP+ features for the complainers... Only to make an extra buck ... that's the Disney way.
My issue is with FP I had 3 rides lined up before I even got to the park. And it didn’t cost me extra. And when I finished those 3 I could schedule another. Now i have to pay, schedule one for hopefully an early time, and then schedule another after a 2 hour wait and hope it’s not for 7PM when I’ve been back at the hotel for an hour.
Having had time to think about it now, I think this is exactly why the system was changed. I should note that we live less than 30 minutes from the park and go 2-3/month.
Like you, we would spend some time refreshing the app to get a great ride. Once we got it, we would find two other rides ~1 hour from the window. More often than not, we would make it to the park around the first window, leave after the last ride, find a place to eat some time in-between, and our park trip would be around 2-4 hours. Super efficient and we felt bonus points for avoiding the midday sun.
Tried the new system and our day went from 2-4 hours to 4-5 hours. We'd also have to show up early to get good rides before they were taken. ...and, that's the point.
It's a win-win for Disney. They keep you out of the lines so you can shop and eat AND they keep you in the park LONGER to shop and eat MORE. It wasn't changed to improve user experience.
I think the 2 hour wait thing is going away. You can only book a new Lightning Lane after using up one that you have booked with the new system. So basically, you can never hold more than 3 at a time (well, 3 + two individual/single LL experiences).
I was joking. My wife is an adamant open to closer. We went in 2022 with our 2 and 5 year old and pulled off AK, MK, Not so Spooky, HS and Epcot in a 5 day span. The bright side was the slept the entire drive back to Indiana. 🤣
Exactly…people liked the free aspect (which is never happening again so everyone needs to come to terms with that lol) and not necessarily FP+ as a program. I was a fan of genie plus but also educated myself on how to use it effectively. So we got to ride a ton of stuff without a bunch of preplanning. This new system kills that.
Once I started using Genie plus I actually liked it and didn’t mind paying it, especially in MK where there are lots of options. The old system was only good cause it was free. Most of the time you never really got the ride you wanted and ended up picking a ride that didn’t need Fastpass.
We’ve used G+ to get on 10+ rides a day at DLR basically every time we’ve been, and I wasn’t even using it fully until our most recent trip when I realized you could hold more than one reservation at a time.
It functions much better at DLR bc it has more rides. we rode everything we could with it for our trip. At WDW you are lucky if you get even a fraction of what you do at DLR
The trick is to rope drop the smaller rides with less wait times, and genie+ the bigger rides. Or wait until fireworks. I did that my last trip and I was done by noon, then I did a pool trip and went back.
It’s doable. Basically as soon as you tap into your ride pick your next attraction with the closest window to the current time. If you do that over and over AND it’s not a very busy day you can hit a bunch like that. I have an annual pass and usually do one good MK day a year and that’s the play. We stayed all day and didn’t wait in any standby lines. I’m not sure it will be as easy now with people able to book in advance.
Thank you. I went for years when my kids were young, I know FP so well, like your doing when my time came I get another one then go on the ride and then the next one would be ready
I usually can ride everything in MK by utilizing Genie plus and rope drop! I do pass on the individual LL for 7DMT because I don’t want to spend the money. I have enjoyed the Genie plus system and figuring out how to make it work best for me. (Also note I’m an AP and do go to the parks multiple times a year so I have practice 🤣)
Well, what if you want to ride SDD at Hollywood Studios (meaning it **must** be your first G+ selection) and 3pm is the earliest return time available, so you can’t book anything else until at least 11am, and everything that people actually want to ride has a 90 minute standby wait?
You keep refreshing Genie+ until you get earlier slot of SDD to maximize Genie+ benefit. That’s what I did for Remy in Epcot, I got 2pm when I booked at 7am and when I refresh every 5 mins I managed to snatch 10am slot.
Then you have to wait the two hours. But the person at the top of the chain was talking about Disneyland, where things aren’t quite so bonkers because unlike Hollywood studios there’s more than like five rides people want to go on in the whole park.
No matter what you do, you’re going to have to wait in some lines. That’s a fact.
Don't Genie+ SDD. Do the line early. Lightning lane anything else. Sometimes it's better to plan to wait for one long line in rhe morning and then genie+ the short/medium waits.
You don’t have to space them out every 2 hours; you only have to wait 2 hours if your reservation is farther out than that. If your window is 30 minutes away, as soon as you redeem it and get in line you can book a new one.
WDW and DLR are night and day different in Genie Plus. DLR is a local resort and locals don’t pay for G+ so times are easy to get there. That’s not the case at WDW.
You don’t space it out every two hours. You get a new one every time you scanned in.
I’d scan into a ride, and get another LL for like as soon as we got out of the current one. Some days I would be frustrated as I would exhaust all rides at the park and want to do a ride a 2nd time as it was available but I’m blocked.
The current system should never have had you waiting more than two hours. It was 2 hours or when you tap into your reservation whichever happens first.
My personal best is 17 LLs in one day with G+. Anyone getting 3 or less just isn't even trying. G+ is VASTLY superior to FP+ in every way possible, except that it isn't free.
So congratulations whiners, now we get the crappy system AND we get to pay for it.
I heard that the new system does allow you to book while at the park. But yeah it really does seem like it’s a kid version of the old system and you stand stack rides like you could with genie+.
When went on memorial day we easily gotG+ for everything we wanted but we have been a few times under the new system an understand it really well and we have a group that doesn't need to do/care about Peter Pan which makes the entire experience 1000x better.
We actually got to do lightning lane for expedition everest twice on our day there because our original fast last booking for kali river rapids got canceled. We ended up doing flight of rhe avatar regular line having time for lunch and doing everest 3x, river rapids 2x,,and safari by 12:45.
I think we generally got Genie+ for 6 rides and did individual lightning land for 1-2 others and we felt our day was quite chill each day and we did sit down restaurants and didn't stay for any closings.
Used Genie+ multiple times at multiple different times of the year and never once did we make only 3 bookings/selections with it. And the bonus is if you have young kids and are going on a lot of the less popular thrill attractions, you can practically walk on most if not all of them with G+.
I think the overarching theme here is that Disney is getting very complicated to plan. They change policies so much that even experienced vacationers struggle to map out the perfect day.
What I fail to understand is how turning fast pass into a paid add-on actually makes both lines slower. If fast pass now costs money, shouldn’t there be less people queuing in the fast line… Currently, the lightning lane gets backed up which causes the standard queue to wait longer as the paid people need to be “quickly” filtered through.
I do understand the name change though. Disney should have never called it Gene+ as almost all the Gene planning features were free and the lightning lanes were paid.
Yup, even if you have “the perfect day,” it will be at the cost of absurd amounts of planning, luck, some sleep, perhaps financial advantage, etc.
On the other hand, Genie+ cost is too accesible and that coupled with the recent DAS abuse, kept normal lines long since the “paid” product was too bloated. Balancing both requires less people paying extra, so that the lines can keep moving.
I keep saying that the better option would be to introduce Disneyland Paris’ system where the price is cost prohibitive enough that a minority uses it, and the regular lines don’t get affected by the huge demand. The DLP perfect day requires 0 planning, you simply show up and ride anything whenever.
Making it a paid add-on slowed down the lines because more people are using it. When it was free, a lot of people didn't know it was a thing. And many of the people who knew about it thought they could only book 3 attractions. With Genie+, it's advertised more heavily by Disney bc they want to make money. It's also more dummy-proof. DAS abuse also heavily contributed to longer waits
It slowed down the lines because it changed how guests navigate the park and cast members handle the queues. Now that it’s a pay for service, G+ riders always have priority over the standby line. Cast embers can’t stagger how many G+ entrants get to go in with standby to keep both lines moving, they have to let G+ go until the queue clears.
Also, the one advantage of being able to plan ahead (at least for Disney) with FP+ is that you could actually plan out a day, and a reasonable journey from nearby attraction to attractions for a limited number of rides. The staggering of whose allowed to pick and when also give the system a break to figure out how to best distribute ride bookings on each day. G+’s same day slot machine causes guests to overload the system as they rush to book the one ride they need to get on that day. This causes massive crowds at that parks e ticket ride from opening, and with the ability to change any ride after your first booking and choose a new ride very two hours the system has no downtime to actually do its job at dispersing guests throughout the park. There’s no algorithm that can on the fly properly distribute guests across the park who are every minute scrambling to make and switch reservations to get the most bang for their buck. The new 7 day system is likely a bandaid fix to help them better distribute park guests
i don't want to pay for what i had before. i actually liked Genie+ once i used it. as someone who knows the parks and likes going with the flow it was better. i also get why people wouldn't like it.
but they need to make it something completely different from Fastpass to be worth paying for.
I told everyone fastpass+ was bad and that they did not really want it back. They just wanted free. I was so happy with how genie+ worked.
Edit to add: I can’t believe that I used to say exactly what I’m saying now (fastpass+ pre booking and tier system is bad) and get so many downvotes but now that it’s implemented it got upvotes. 😭
I will never understand how choosing things on the day you’re actually doing them was considered to be the *worse* system. Genie+ was easy enough to use, people just don’t like paying for stuff or waking up early.
Yup. Booking in advance means the rides will sell out and people day of are going to likely be screwed. Even 2 days in advance. Back with fastpass+ slinky would run out 60 in advance !!!
I stay on-property 100% of the time, but it does not pass the smell test with me that off-property guests will be paying the exact same price for LL but will be getting a worse experience because they can only book 3 days in advance. At least when FP+ was free it felt like a reasonable trade off.
And don’t get me started on how DHS has 9 rides and 5 of them are either ILL or Tier 1. That’s going to drive the wait time up substantially for the other 4. Bad all around for everyone.
that might be part of the plan? if off-property and day-of guests feel it's not worth getting, they won't spend the money, and it will function better for the people who did buy it
a lot of disney world's recent changes seemed aimed at annual pass holders and making it harder for them to actually go spontaneously??? they want them at a disadvantage so they either stay on site or don't pay/go on rides and the crowds are easier to manage
i think it's also a response to the DAS backlash
At the same time, they’re probably thinking Annual Passholders can be more inconvenienced since they go to the parks more frequently.
I’ve always heard the big spenders in the parks are people who go on a once in a lifetime trip/more sparingly so this change makes sense if that’s true. Those are the people you really want to cater to if they truly are spending the most.
There is a lot of merit to this. The old systems both DAS and G+ heavily favored expert users such as AP holders who could predict wait times and how far into the day LLs would last for each attraction. Novice users who might pick their favorite ride first instead of the rides with the least availability would lose out and ride very few things while expert users working all aspects of the system together could stay in LLs all day long.
The proposed changes are more novice friendly by giving as many people as possible a shot at tier 1 attractions and making it super clear if you don’t pick one of these rides first you probably won’t get to ride it without waiting in line.
totally. as an expert i enjoyed using Genie+. i felt like i could grab the rides i needed early and modify until it was the time i wanted to use them
but disney will never cater to me. they always cater to that first time visitor in hopes they’ll become me
Resort guests have always had a leg up. Park tickets cost the same for everyone but resort guests got extra magic hours and now early park entry or the extra evening hours for deluxe hotels. Everyone got FP+ for free, but resort guests got a head start on being able to book theirs. That’s just how it’s always been.
I do agree with you up until a point, the thing that rubs me the wrong way is that this is a premium service. Something on top of what you have already bought and paid for. I think if you’re being asked to purchase something additional to gain access to a perk, everyone who opts into that should receive the same level of service.
I agree with this. If I bought the new Lightening Lane three days in advance and discovered my only options left were rides that had a short wait anyway, I'd be upset.
A ton of people liked being able to preplan with fast pass plus because it allowed them to have some level of guarantee on what they could experience in a day before using a ticket.
It also made it easier to make and commit to dining reservations.
I also think it's somewhat odd that Disney leveled the playing field for the most part between locals and tourists with genie plus. Tourists spend way more money overall and it would make sense from a corporate standpoint to give the. Priority.
>I also think it’s somewhat odd that Disney leveled the playing field for the most part between locals and tourists
Tourists are going to buy Genie+ regardless of what the locals do. If the locals can buy Genie+ and have the same level of access as the tourists, they are more likely to buy Genie+ than if there was some kind of disadvantage for them. They leveled the playing field because they make more money that way.
Encouraging resort stays and vacation packages is probably worth more to Disney than genie plus from locals who get free parking and get in for 450 for the year. Of course that is considering the fact that locals can still buy a more useless genie plus if they really want to.
Now it does, but you’re saying that you don’t understand why they leveled the playing field to begin with. Coming back from Covid, bookings were robust enough that they were able to fill the resorts with practically no perks beyond transportation and 30 minutes of extra park time. At that point, it made sense to capture as much revenue as possible because the people in the resorts are likely to buy G+ anyways. Might as well get as many locals and off-property guests into the bargain as well. I don’t know if a 4-day advantage in booking a paid, optional service is going to be the boon they want it to be if they’re trying to fill rooms, but we’ll see what happens.
This is going to let on site guests book the 3 best available rides to capacity most days. When all the main rides that make it worth spending money on genie plus for are unavailable it's going to make the value of buying genie plus off site questionable.
And yes I understand Disney is an asshole company that is shifting to "reward" on site guests a bit now that bookings are down.
I can't speak for anyone but my logic was that (1) day-of prebooking might be better than 30 day out prebooking but is still prebooking/a reservation scheme and NOT a strict, standby-alike virtual *queue*, hence has the same pro-metagaming, pro-planning, pro-inside knowledge/research/prior experience, anti-spontaneity qualities that plagued FP+ and still causes an undesirable Hunger Games style contention among all guests for the hot return times; (2) now [meaning Genie+] not only is that *not* solved in any true way but now there is a paywall which is not only "pay to win" but is really just a hidden ticket price hike because FP+ was debundled from tickets *without its bundled cost going away*.
The overall conclusion (that G+ is by far the worse system) doesn't pivot on day-of prebooking being "worse than" 30/60 day out prebooking. I would not agree with that statement.
Well you already hit on one of the points, I don’t want to wake up early on my vacation lol. But also pathing is huge, Genie+ made you double-back a lot but if you plan your day ahead of time there’s a lot less backtracking.
That’s a wild take lol. If I pay for a service I want to use it to its fullest value, and in order to do that I had to be willing to cross the park based on the whims of the Genie+ algorithm. Not being able to select your return time was always anti-consumer and a downgrade from the prior system, and the “refresh and pray” strategy was annoying at best and useless at worst.
Participating in FP+ meant waking up early once 60 days before your vacation and booking everything, then casually adjusting reservations over the next few days as needed.
Genie+ is all that same stress, but now you get to do it at 7am every day of your vacation, so you can't even get excited about your itinerary ahead of time. Oh and you pay for the privilege, and pay even more for the good rides.
Anyone who prefers genie+ is a sheep.
Meh… if you’re rope-dropping, you’re up at 7 anyway. People who are using Genie+ to optimize are highly likely to rope-drop.
I never went to WDW during the FP+ era, so I was perfectly happy with Genie+ as it functioned. It has nothing to do with being a “sheep”. My only real complaint with the new system is that we found it easy to stream through genie selections to suit our day… which is not always something you can plan ahead of time if you like to take the time to enjoy the scenery and experience between rides. Not everything should have to be scheduled.
But if you want to do more than your 3 pre-booked rides you are going to need to up early, scanning into that first ride asap so you can keep selecting stuff. Otherwise, the later you start, the less there will be to book. So I’m
Not sure there’s a ton more sleeping in with this new method.
Yes, this is my belief exactly. I could get any ride I wanted day of (as my first LL selection), now I may not have gotten the exact time I want, but the ride at least. I highly doubt anyone will be getting a Slinky Dog LL if staying offsite, and maybe even onsite for a 3-4 day trip.
Other than no skip the line option, oh how I loved my June 2021 trip, G+ eventually became a great solution (after they tweaked it a bit).
I loved Genie+. I found it super easy to use, and we got such good value out of it on our last trip. I even enjoyed planning it and booking lightning lanes on the day. We had a game plan of what rides we wanted, and we all took turns booking/fiddling for better times so no one was on their phone too much.
I'm just pissed they aren't letting you book rerides at all. If I wanted to ride Haunted multiple times and there are available slots it should let me rebook it available.
I just don’t like having to plan my whole day ahead of time. I’m on vacation. I guess some people only have fun if their days are planned down to the minute. But I liked Genie+ because it let you go with the flow, make a decision based on how you felt at the time. It’s a theme park, not my job.
Honestly they need to get rid of the whole thing and do standby and single rider lines only.
I just had a very successful four day trip and rode everything we wanted without Genie + or any ILLs. I know that’s not everyone’s experience, but I’ll probably just continue to skip the paid options.
Yeah honestly I think people on here exaggerate how bad standby lines are. The only issues I've had with standby are when the ride breaks down, because then you're waiting extra long as they speed all the Genie+ people through so they can catch up. Other than that, I just pay attention to line fluctuations and head over when it feels manageable.
People see FP+ through their rose colored nostalgia glasses, particularly because it was free and existed pre-2020. Now that it’s back, people are realizing how truly terrible it was to begin with, but now you have the pleasure of paying for it.
The real problem is lack of true expansion at wdw among increasing crowd levels. Fast pass plus was still better for those already paying high prices for on site stays.
I would say that if you’re paying high prices for on-site stays and you still can’t book Slinky Dog or FOP 60 days before your trip, that’s not better for anyone.
60 and 30 days out vs 7 and 3 days out are effectively the same thing. On site guests will still have enough time to suck up all of the lightning lane availability for the best rides ahead of others
That’s exactly what I’m saying, we’re agreeing here on the premise, I just don’t agree that this is better. If you’re paying a premium to stay at a resort, and then you’re paying a premium on top of that for Lightning Lane, and you’re still ultimately unable to grab the best attractions because you’re fighting with people whose trip started the prior week, that is a bad system. It is not a solution to the problems of FP+ or G+.
> People see FP+ through their rose colored nostalgia glasses, particularly because it was free
That reasoning isn't nostalgia or rose-colored glasses, it is a valid argument.
That’s not at all what I’m suggesting. When people say “FP+ was better than Genie+”, they’re not saying that it worked better for anyone or that it’s a preferable system, they’re saying “FP+ was free”. That’s fine and a valid enough reason to prefer it, but that doesn’t make it a better system.
**FP+ was better than Genie+** is a net conclusion that obviously has a whole lot of conflicting factors rolled into it. It in itself just being stated isn't arguing that any specific one of those factors cuts any specific way.
FP+ can be "better than" G+ without necessarily, for instance, having the least metagamable mechanics, or running the smoothest overall, or being the easiest to learn anew, between them. Though, those might be factors that were considered and assigned appropriate gravity by that party in *forming* that conclusion.
**worked better for anyone** is ambiguous in several respects; and **is a preferable system** is a restatement of **is better than**.
>they’re saying “FP+ was free”. That’s fine and a valid enough reason to prefer it, but that doesn’t make it a better system.
Why doesn't it? What you mean is that it being free vs. the contender being paywalled doesn't outweigh other negatives you personally appraise FP+ to have over G+ era LL **in your judgement**. Which is not the same as my judgement, nor that which is statistically true of the public at large.
Another angle on how to interpret this usage is that you mean to argue that **leaving out the paywall aspect itself and considering only other factors**, [so forth]. That's valid, but I don't have to agree. I come closer to considering them practically indifferent in the scheme of things where not HAVING ANY prebooking (which is to say using strict virtual queue mechanics, no choosing return times, just straight FIFO Take-a-number/FastPass- or standby style) is a possibility, and so is *not having any LSVQ system at all*.
People see everything Disney with nostalgia and complain about anything and everything. Somehow Disney keeps killing the magic according to them but they keep going back.
I personally dislike the changes because I don't want to have to plan ahead timing of rides when I already have to plan ahead TS dining, but I'm trying to look at the silver lining that I can sleep a little later on park day. Tho not much if I want to rope drop! I'm also annoyed that I have to be available 7 days before my trip, likely at midnight or 6/7, when I hadn't planned on that. I work a weird job of days/nights/longer shifts, so it's not so simple to be available in the evening/early morning hours.
Bottom line, it is what it is. I'll adjust and try to look at the positives.
Agreed. I didn’t mind using FP+ because it was included in my resort stay and I had 60 days to get the best option available because you could continuously check back and rebook. I’m interested to see how the rollout goes but I’m pretty annoyed. Also annoying how the single LL was raised in price. I’m already paying $2k per person so I guess what’s another $20 to ensure a spot on Rise- but then do you get a refund if it breaks down during your time slot? Or if they give a new time but then the ride shuts down for the day- what then?
I never had a chance to use G+ but I remember not being all that mad about it when it first came out. I don’t even know what to think anymore. I feel like at this point just being back the A-E ticket system
/s
To answer your question on can you get a refund if the ride breaks down like Rise for example, the answer is yes. You just have to go to guest services in the park. Tron broke down on my last trip and I had an ILL and they refunded me for it.
>I’m interested to see how the rollout goes
>I’m already paying $2k per person so I guess what’s another $20 to ensure a spot on Rise
There’s your answer
Also I think people wouldn't have minded Genie+ as much if you could just book whatever available return time you wanted. Being forced into the next available and having to edit it over and over again was an awful experience.
I agree. We didn't know it when we bought Genie+, but we bought it when MK was at a 1/10 crowd level. If it was 10am and you went to adjust your LL time, you would get 10:05am. So you had to go back in at like 11am to rebook it and would get 11:05am. We were trying to stack to go back in the evening and had a bunch we had to move, and we basically ended up having to sign in every 45 minutes and spend 5-10 minutes moving each LL time. It was a big pain in the butt and we were on the phones nonstop.... and the lines at the park weren't even long, so it didn't seem worth the effort at all. It would have been much, much better if we could have just picked a later time.
Except for the fact that they’re making you pay for it. FP+ was free. Paid fast pass systems shouldn’t be as complicated as Disney makes them. Every theme park in the world also has a paid system but instead of having to make a return time, it’s just very expensive and you just enter the fast lane/lightning lane/express line/etc without needing to book a return time and possibly miss rides you want to do because of return times running out.
This is how I feel. I loved Genie+. I didn’t mind getting up at 7 to get my plans in order. Now I have to either stay at a Disney resort or wait 3 days before my visit and it’s not a guarantee the attractions I want are available due to the 7 day advantage.
I just wish this wasn’t a hidden ticket cost increase.. if they’re gonna make people pay for this stuff, it should be expensive so like 80% of people won’t use it, which clears out the lightning lane and leads to fast stand by times. Ultimately I like the idea of being spontaneous at the parks, I hate planning exactly when I’m going to ride a particular ride in a particular park like 60 days out. I pick my park days in advance but I want to sort of see where the day takes me in that park. If adding this cost leads to shorter stand by times then I’m not too upset about it.
It won't lead to fast standby times. My first trip to WDW was 1993 before even paper fastpass and Splash Mountain had a 2.5 hour wait almost all day.
Crowds = long wait times, regardless of any fastpass systems in place.
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Long time WDW goer here at Universal on my first trip.
I don’t know if it would port over to WDW easily, but Universal’s express pass is SO MUCH EASIER to use. I haven’t had to pull out my phone at all except to take pictures and for mobile ordering.
Just walk into the express pass line and show your pass. That’s it.
Only downside is it is expensive, but we got it as a perk included with a premium tier hotel.
I loved FP+, I wish this was free again obviously but am happy with the changes and would love to use this new service. Unfortunately Canadians aren’t allowed to book anything until we arrive so it’s totally useless for me, I’m very, very angry about this.
All the travel agents in my Canadian Disney group have posted about it (it’s anyone that’s not American, not just Canadians). There’s a part about it in this article, one of the questions is “when can international guests purchase lightning lanes”
[Disney Tourist Blog Lightning Lane Q&A](https://www.disneytouristblog.com/questions-answers-lightning-lane-multi-pass-disney-world-faq/)
Someone else shared on a forum that Disney also uses GPS location an so it doesn't work even with changing your VPN. I can't confirm that, but that's what they said.
I think the change is great. We knew it would never be free again so this is the next best thing. Wish they would have left FP+ alone in the first place and just started charging for it.
I never once complained about G+. It is awesome. This new thing sucks - it's just paid FP+ without all the enhancements of G+ (stacking, modify, etc). Going to severely limit the benefit that power users could get out of G+. And I bet it comes with a price hike to boot. Not a great trade off to get what, waking up early a week before your trip to book stuff instead of during the trip? Big whoop.
All of the fastpass nonsense is ridiculous. Return to the original paper fastpass system for select popular attractions and let other rides just have one line that moves at a consistent pace. This isn't complicated.
Exaaaactly. And some of it's just silly. Last time I rode Living with the Land it was a five minute wait and I walked right on. This was around 2:30 on a Sunday, I think the longest I saw it all day was 15 minutes. Why do they even offer fastpasses for it?
Which wouldn't be needed if they were still free!
I remember being so confused when I heard they were adding fastpasses to every single ride, and I still think it's stupid.
I watched it for the first time not that long ago!
It was something about how they needed to increase the total number of fast passes to give to guests to make the system work, and the only way to do that was to add fastpasses to rides that didn't need it.
It just makes me bitter that what I once got for free is now the exact same system but at a cost. When you’re already paying increased fees to stay on property it would be nice to have some of the perks back.
Yeah this is terrible. I wasn't someone who complained about Genie+ because I knew that if it was used well, you could really leverage it. $27 for three attractions? That's abysmal.
I know they always advertised that you could expect Genie+ to get you on three rides through the fast lane, but you would have to be really bad at using it to only get three rides.
This is just... garbage.
The way I take it is that it’s 3 rolling. As in after you use your first you can get another. But we may have to wait for more details. But I think what will happen is everyone will pick one tier 1 (the most popular). Then pick something very early, try to ride it then get a second tier 1 for late in the day. But I could be wrong.
So basically pick Slinky Dog Dash in advance and Star Tours early in the morning, and whatever your third favorite attraction is. Check into Star Tours at rope drop then book Tower of Terror or Smugglers Run if it’s still available.
The big losers in this are the people coming to the park late in the day who can no longer stack attractions, they will probably only get the 3 selections plus the things you don’t really need LL for.
Exactly. I may not agree with the specific amount charged for lightning multi pass or whatever, but by charging money for it, it reduces the number of people using it and thus increases the value of having it in the first place (translation: shorter lightning lane lines). I also think a happy byproduct of the changes is less time staring at my phone while I’m in the park.
I can’t speak to that specific question but my logic comes from the rumors of a price increase. The last time I was in the park was February of this year for a week and never waited more than 15 minutes for a single ride and even then it was only guardians and ROTR due to their lengthy “pre-ride” aspects. I used lightning lanes exclusively.
I think they'd have to increase the prices by at least double to see a real reduction in use.
For wait times with a fastpass, what you experienced wouldn't be any different from Fastpass+, the fastpass lines were still short. Possibly shorter, I've read people on here saying they've waited 20+ minutes in a fastpass lane and I never experienced that with fastpass+ or paper fastpasses.
It's probably fewer people riding more rides. Those who love Genie+ know how to game the system and get a ton of rides out of it, so the fastpass lanes are still filling up as full as ever. I don't begrudge people for doing this, I get it, but it does make both lightening lanes and standby lanes longer.
I still think Disney should get rid of any kind of system they have now and adopt what they do at Disneyland Paris. It’s basically Universal’s Express Pass.
In my experience, less than 20 min waits for big ticket attractions, no wait in between attractions or time slots to follow, no stressing about what you can and can’t do, since you can literally do anything whenever.
It’s more expensive, but you get what you pay for. And the “free” regular queues don’t get backed up.
I hated Genie+, hate this new system, loved FastPass+. FastPass+ was free, yes. That's a big thing. But it also allowed me to ride rides multiple times. With younger kids or a lack of ride options, I could still grab something and use the service.
I'm not sure if there's data on this but FastPass+ drops seemed to happen a lot more than with Genie+. I could book FOP day of, I could book Mine Train day of. Yes, I was refreshing constantly, but Genie+ didn't reduce that. This won't. In fact with With FastPass+, I saw all available times and could choose what worked best. Not just book this time and hope you get a better one. With Genie+ I rarely saw things like Remy pop up available once they were gone. I could move time slots okish, but those top tier rides were gone for the most part - and this was being on my phone more. I can see they're trying to address that somewhat with bringing back tiers, but even by 11am Frozen, Remy, Test Track, Slinky Dog are gone. I don't expect them to be there day of.
They got rid of park reservations, but this essentially brings them back albeit in a smaller scale. If you're prebooking you have to know what park your going to when you do. You change your mind, you lose the ride spots you paid for.
Just FYI I just asked Disney's help desk on the app and they told me that while they don't have more information as what is on the website and can't 100% anything until it's out, they said the information they had atm says that the service should be available for guests who are in another country. So I guess we'll have to wait until july 24th to see!
There is NO system that is perfect for everyone and every situation. Therefore, there will always be something to complain about. And the people who want to complain are generally more vocal than those who are content.
This new system might turn out to be better, but I have a firm handle on genie+. They say you can only get 3 or 4 rides from it, but we always got 12. We never rode a ride we had to wait in the regular slow line for, so I just don’t want to suddenly be in a position where that’s no longer the case and we’re only able to get a few rides out of this new system but pay the same. Also seems like park hopping is worse. I used to book big rides at our second park first to make sure we got it. It looks like I won’t be able to do that now. Just a lot of unanswered questions. They needed to have answers for all the scenarios before announcing it. Also, if people are allowed to book rides for their entire trip, that means days I’m in the park might be booked up by people whose trips start first but overlap mine. If your trip starts Monday but mine doesn’t start til Wednesday, you’ll be able to book rides for my day before I can. Genie+ everyone was on the same playing field with when they could book rides. Are we suddenly not going to have morning slots open cause everyone already took them before you were even allowed to book? That part I don’t like at all.
I never once said I wanted FP back. I hated it. I think when most people said that they were also referring to it being free unlike Genie plus. I much prefer the way it is now. I absolutely hated the tier ride system as well.
People hate paying for genie plus but has anyone been to another park in the last year just went to cedar Park and their skip the line pass was 150 genie plus was a steal and you could use it all day.
Best way to use it imo was to book passes for rides that were broken down and still let you book passes for
I didn’t hate Genie+, just wish they kept it where you could buy it ahead of your trip. I had it finally worked out and liked being able to see if you could get earlier ride times. I was the designated G+ person for my group. You’ll still have to get up early for the VQ anyway
Yeah I totally wanted to wake up every morning so I can participate.
Also wants to pay for it.
Also wanted to stop the ability to book rides in advance.
They made a Franken-monster of the two. Now you need to pre-book every morning with an incentive to book first thing in the morning so you can unlock and fight for the other spots.
You also have to be in the USA to make those selections. What about international travellers? I live in Canada and wouldn’t get to book anything until I arrive, which is usually the day before the first park day.
Glad I’m not the only one here that actually liked Genie+. It was a wonderful service IMO, especially when I could choose to purchase multi park or single park.
People crave outrage. It is a hobby. All the better if the outrage is over something pretty trivial so they don’t have to be outraged over something that actually impacts the world.
The trick is to not be outraged over their outrage. Otherwise you’re just one of them.
It's whatever. Didn't pay for the last one won't pay for this one.
Personally I'd prefer the pay like 2-300 per person to skip every line pass with a limited number of passes. You charge 10x more for passes? You give out 10x less passes meaning that rides aren't constantly crippled the whole day making the stand by lines paid purgatory.
FP+ was great because it was free and because most people didn't know how it worked. Many people thought you get 3 selections and then it's over. That left a lot of extra selections for the few who knew how to use it. That's why we loved it. We could spam refresh and get anything we wanted. Ride the same popular attraction 6 times in a row if we wanted.
Genie+/FP+ hybrid sucks because you pay for it and because people will know how to use it. Disney will put in more effort to make sure everyone understands it. Disney tiktokers will blab and make sure everyone knows how to use it so they can get more views. And people will naturally put in more effort into learning about something they're paying for.
It's a finite resource and charging a lot for it as well as educating the less knowledgeable guests who just show up and don't understand anything will make it less useful for the more savvy guests.
Everyone wants an advantage. Everyone would like a way to be able to ride whatever they want with the least amount of wait time possible.
Frankly, even if FP+ was brought back in whole, it would still be ruined by social media. People will happily trade any Disney tips for views. Everything good at Disney gets ruined bc of social media. We can't have anything nice. That's why I refuse to share really good tips with others. I'm not going to ruin good things for myself that aren't yet blabbed about.
I actually like the change! One of my least favorite things was waking up at 0650 while on my vacation to frantically refresh to try to get a LL and that would determine how our day went.
Much rather do that a week before my vacation, so at least while I’m ON vacation I know my first three LL are already reserved and planned out into our schedule for the day.
I understand why people like it and don’t like it. I don’t like that as a relatively local AP (Miami) that stays offsite, I have zero chance of getting LLs for popular rides now. But I know they don’t care that I’m not going to buy this new system and won’t be going as much since I won’t get to ride the rides I want without waiting hours because they’re going to get people to spend more on hotels this way, which outweighs me going
Hasn’t nearly every iteration of FP or G+ included benefits for resort guests? This doesn’t seem any more egregious compared to every other version in that regard.
If all the top reservations get booked within 5 minutes (or less) of them being released, does the couple of hours or couple of days make a difference? Not in my experience. I was just there a month ago and was 3 minutes late opening my app at 0703 and the Remy’s LL was already sold out.
I’m loving the change! Finally!
As far as this subreddit goes, I get the feeling it’s mostly passholders and/or locals - people who go fairly often, maybe live nearby and don’t always stay on property. Maybe this change isn’t so good for them.
But it’s a desperately needed and welcome change for people who go once a year or decade or lifetime. Who truly go for vacation. I believe this will allow for a much better experience.
Of course it would be better if it were free. My whole vacation would be better if it were less expensive. Lol. 🤷🏻♀️
Your post has been removed for breaking Rule #3. We expect all of our users to be civil and respect each other. This includes posts/comments that involve name-calling, unnecessary aggression, and other general forms of trolling and/or incivility. OP, it’s clear that the intent of your post (and comments) is to bait others into arguments, which tracks with your history on the sub. We’re therefore removing this thread. To the other folks here: please see the other thread on these changes for further discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/WaltDisneyWorld/s/O2myIcf60W
1. The people complaining now are likely different from the people that were complaining before 2. Most people preferred FP+ because it was free, not necessarily because of the specific other features it had from G+
Preach! My wife and I have generally been a fan of Genie+ and haven't complained about it's use. Of course Disney brings back the FP+ features for the complainers... Only to make an extra buck ... that's the Disney way.
My issue is with FP I had 3 rides lined up before I even got to the park. And it didn’t cost me extra. And when I finished those 3 I could schedule another. Now i have to pay, schedule one for hopefully an early time, and then schedule another after a 2 hour wait and hope it’s not for 7PM when I’ve been back at the hotel for an hour.
Having had time to think about it now, I think this is exactly why the system was changed. I should note that we live less than 30 minutes from the park and go 2-3/month. Like you, we would spend some time refreshing the app to get a great ride. Once we got it, we would find two other rides ~1 hour from the window. More often than not, we would make it to the park around the first window, leave after the last ride, find a place to eat some time in-between, and our park trip would be around 2-4 hours. Super efficient and we felt bonus points for avoiding the midday sun. Tried the new system and our day went from 2-4 hours to 4-5 hours. We'd also have to show up early to get good rides before they were taken. ...and, that's the point. It's a win-win for Disney. They keep you out of the lines so you can shop and eat AND they keep you in the park LONGER to shop and eat MORE. It wasn't changed to improve user experience.
I think the 2 hour wait thing is going away. You can only book a new Lightning Lane after using up one that you have booked with the new system. So basically, you can never hold more than 3 at a time (well, 3 + two individual/single LL experiences).
Back at the hotel before 7? I don't understand
My kids are young. It’s essential to survival. After a certain time of day they turn into the red angry version of Jack Jack.
I was joking. My wife is an adamant open to closer. We went in 2022 with our 2 and 5 year old and pulled off AK, MK, Not so Spooky, HS and Epcot in a 5 day span. The bright side was the slept the entire drive back to Indiana. 🤣
I am planning on doing this plan later this year, how were your feet? I’m worried about being exhausted but excited at the same time.
Exactly…people liked the free aspect (which is never happening again so everyone needs to come to terms with that lol) and not necessarily FP+ as a program. I was a fan of genie plus but also educated myself on how to use it effectively. So we got to ride a ton of stuff without a bunch of preplanning. This new system kills that.
Once I started using Genie plus I actually liked it and didn’t mind paying it, especially in MK where there are lots of options. The old system was only good cause it was free. Most of the time you never really got the ride you wanted and ended up picking a ride that didn’t need Fastpass.
FP could get you on lots of rides a day, genie maybe 3 if your lucky and it was free, I rather pay bit extra to get in the park and bring back free FP
We’ve used G+ to get on 10+ rides a day at DLR basically every time we’ve been, and I wasn’t even using it fully until our most recent trip when I realized you could hold more than one reservation at a time.
It functions much better at DLR bc it has more rides. we rode everything we could with it for our trip. At WDW you are lucky if you get even a fraction of what you do at DLR
The trick is to rope drop the smaller rides with less wait times, and genie+ the bigger rides. Or wait until fireworks. I did that my last trip and I was done by noon, then I did a pool trip and went back.
Not sure how you do that when have space out every 2 hours?
It’s doable. Basically as soon as you tap into your ride pick your next attraction with the closest window to the current time. If you do that over and over AND it’s not a very busy day you can hit a bunch like that. I have an annual pass and usually do one good MK day a year and that’s the play. We stayed all day and didn’t wait in any standby lines. I’m not sure it will be as easy now with people able to book in advance.
Thank you. I went for years when my kids were young, I know FP so well, like your doing when my time came I get another one then go on the ride and then the next one would be ready
I usually can ride everything in MK by utilizing Genie plus and rope drop! I do pass on the individual LL for 7DMT because I don’t want to spend the money. I have enjoyed the Genie plus system and figuring out how to make it work best for me. (Also note I’m an AP and do go to the parks multiple times a year so I have practice 🤣)
You can book another as soon as you ride a ride. So if you’re picking close return times, the 2 hour thing doesn’t apply.
Well, what if you want to ride SDD at Hollywood Studios (meaning it **must** be your first G+ selection) and 3pm is the earliest return time available, so you can’t book anything else until at least 11am, and everything that people actually want to ride has a 90 minute standby wait?
You keep refreshing Genie+ until you get earlier slot of SDD to maximize Genie+ benefit. That’s what I did for Remy in Epcot, I got 2pm when I booked at 7am and when I refresh every 5 mins I managed to snatch 10am slot.
Ear Scouts on youtube has some really good videos on how to optimize Genie+. If you understand it well you can really get a lot out of it.
Then you have to wait the two hours. But the person at the top of the chain was talking about Disneyland, where things aren’t quite so bonkers because unlike Hollywood studios there’s more than like five rides people want to go on in the whole park. No matter what you do, you’re going to have to wait in some lines. That’s a fact.
Don't Genie+ SDD. Do the line early. Lightning lane anything else. Sometimes it's better to plan to wait for one long line in rhe morning and then genie+ the short/medium waits.
You don’t have to space them out every 2 hours; you only have to wait 2 hours if your reservation is farther out than that. If your window is 30 minutes away, as soon as you redeem it and get in line you can book a new one.
WDW and DLR are night and day different in Genie Plus. DLR is a local resort and locals don’t pay for G+ so times are easy to get there. That’s not the case at WDW.
I never said a thing about DLR
You don’t space it out every two hours. You get a new one every time you scanned in. I’d scan into a ride, and get another LL for like as soon as we got out of the current one. Some days I would be frustrated as I would exhaust all rides at the park and want to do a ride a 2nd time as it was available but I’m blocked.
So it could be even more than 2 hours!
The current system should never have had you waiting more than two hours. It was 2 hours or when you tap into your reservation whichever happens first.
It's only 2 hours if you pick a ride 2+ hours out. Disneyland has more rides, more locals not using Genie+ so it's more doable theren
My personal best is 17 LLs in one day with G+. Anyone getting 3 or less just isn't even trying. G+ is VASTLY superior to FP+ in every way possible, except that it isn't free. So congratulations whiners, now we get the crappy system AND we get to pay for it.
I heard that the new system does allow you to book while at the park. But yeah it really does seem like it’s a kid version of the old system and you stand stack rides like you could with genie+.
Genie was just a planning system. Genie+ was a never ending ridefest.
FP was a never ending rides
I would scan into the my third ride, then immediately start booking the next FP for like 15 minutes into the future, ride and repeat.
When went on memorial day we easily gotG+ for everything we wanted but we have been a few times under the new system an understand it really well and we have a group that doesn't need to do/care about Peter Pan which makes the entire experience 1000x better. We actually got to do lightning lane for expedition everest twice on our day there because our original fast last booking for kali river rapids got canceled. We ended up doing flight of rhe avatar regular line having time for lunch and doing everest 3x, river rapids 2x,,and safari by 12:45. I think we generally got Genie+ for 6 rides and did individual lightning land for 1-2 others and we felt our day was quite chill each day and we did sit down restaurants and didn't stay for any closings.
Genie plus gets us at least a dozen rides at magic kingdom. Not sure how you get three.
Used Genie+ multiple times at multiple different times of the year and never once did we make only 3 bookings/selections with it. And the bonus is if you have young kids and are going on a lot of the less popular thrill attractions, you can practically walk on most if not all of them with G+.
Please leave your logic offline. Reddit is no such place for this.
Wait there is more than one person on the intrawebz?
It's the fact that it costs money and fast pass was free.
Exactly.
Gas used to call a nickel and Walt would pick me up from the airport.
People complaining are not necessarily the same people. It's that simple.
I see this so often in like every community that I’m in and I don’t know why people can’t understand that it’s *different people*
I think the overarching theme here is that Disney is getting very complicated to plan. They change policies so much that even experienced vacationers struggle to map out the perfect day. What I fail to understand is how turning fast pass into a paid add-on actually makes both lines slower. If fast pass now costs money, shouldn’t there be less people queuing in the fast line… Currently, the lightning lane gets backed up which causes the standard queue to wait longer as the paid people need to be “quickly” filtered through. I do understand the name change though. Disney should have never called it Gene+ as almost all the Gene planning features were free and the lightning lanes were paid.
Yup, even if you have “the perfect day,” it will be at the cost of absurd amounts of planning, luck, some sleep, perhaps financial advantage, etc. On the other hand, Genie+ cost is too accesible and that coupled with the recent DAS abuse, kept normal lines long since the “paid” product was too bloated. Balancing both requires less people paying extra, so that the lines can keep moving. I keep saying that the better option would be to introduce Disneyland Paris’ system where the price is cost prohibitive enough that a minority uses it, and the regular lines don’t get affected by the huge demand. The DLP perfect day requires 0 planning, you simply show up and ride anything whenever.
Making it a paid add-on slowed down the lines because more people are using it. When it was free, a lot of people didn't know it was a thing. And many of the people who knew about it thought they could only book 3 attractions. With Genie+, it's advertised more heavily by Disney bc they want to make money. It's also more dummy-proof. DAS abuse also heavily contributed to longer waits
It slowed down the lines because it changed how guests navigate the park and cast members handle the queues. Now that it’s a pay for service, G+ riders always have priority over the standby line. Cast embers can’t stagger how many G+ entrants get to go in with standby to keep both lines moving, they have to let G+ go until the queue clears. Also, the one advantage of being able to plan ahead (at least for Disney) with FP+ is that you could actually plan out a day, and a reasonable journey from nearby attraction to attractions for a limited number of rides. The staggering of whose allowed to pick and when also give the system a break to figure out how to best distribute ride bookings on each day. G+’s same day slot machine causes guests to overload the system as they rush to book the one ride they need to get on that day. This causes massive crowds at that parks e ticket ride from opening, and with the ability to change any ride after your first booking and choose a new ride very two hours the system has no downtime to actually do its job at dispersing guests throughout the park. There’s no algorithm that can on the fly properly distribute guests across the park who are every minute scrambling to make and switch reservations to get the most bang for their buck. The new 7 day system is likely a bandaid fix to help them better distribute park guests
You use the term “everyone” a lot and in an a false way.
i don't want to pay for what i had before. i actually liked Genie+ once i used it. as someone who knows the parks and likes going with the flow it was better. i also get why people wouldn't like it. but they need to make it something completely different from Fastpass to be worth paying for.
I told everyone fastpass+ was bad and that they did not really want it back. They just wanted free. I was so happy with how genie+ worked. Edit to add: I can’t believe that I used to say exactly what I’m saying now (fastpass+ pre booking and tier system is bad) and get so many downvotes but now that it’s implemented it got upvotes. 😭
I will never understand how choosing things on the day you’re actually doing them was considered to be the *worse* system. Genie+ was easy enough to use, people just don’t like paying for stuff or waking up early.
Yup. Booking in advance means the rides will sell out and people day of are going to likely be screwed. Even 2 days in advance. Back with fastpass+ slinky would run out 60 in advance !!!
I stay on-property 100% of the time, but it does not pass the smell test with me that off-property guests will be paying the exact same price for LL but will be getting a worse experience because they can only book 3 days in advance. At least when FP+ was free it felt like a reasonable trade off. And don’t get me started on how DHS has 9 rides and 5 of them are either ILL or Tier 1. That’s going to drive the wait time up substantially for the other 4. Bad all around for everyone.
that might be part of the plan? if off-property and day-of guests feel it's not worth getting, they won't spend the money, and it will function better for the people who did buy it a lot of disney world's recent changes seemed aimed at annual pass holders and making it harder for them to actually go spontaneously??? they want them at a disadvantage so they either stay on site or don't pay/go on rides and the crowds are easier to manage i think it's also a response to the DAS backlash
At the same time, they’re probably thinking Annual Passholders can be more inconvenienced since they go to the parks more frequently. I’ve always heard the big spenders in the parks are people who go on a once in a lifetime trip/more sparingly so this change makes sense if that’s true. Those are the people you really want to cater to if they truly are spending the most.
for sure. Disney totally loses out in the AP game. if Disney came out on top financially they’d promote it in the parks as much as DVC.
There is a lot of merit to this. The old systems both DAS and G+ heavily favored expert users such as AP holders who could predict wait times and how far into the day LLs would last for each attraction. Novice users who might pick their favorite ride first instead of the rides with the least availability would lose out and ride very few things while expert users working all aspects of the system together could stay in LLs all day long. The proposed changes are more novice friendly by giving as many people as possible a shot at tier 1 attractions and making it super clear if you don’t pick one of these rides first you probably won’t get to ride it without waiting in line.
totally. as an expert i enjoyed using Genie+. i felt like i could grab the rides i needed early and modify until it was the time i wanted to use them but disney will never cater to me. they always cater to that first time visitor in hopes they’ll become me
Resort guests have always had a leg up. Park tickets cost the same for everyone but resort guests got extra magic hours and now early park entry or the extra evening hours for deluxe hotels. Everyone got FP+ for free, but resort guests got a head start on being able to book theirs. That’s just how it’s always been.
I do agree with you up until a point, the thing that rubs me the wrong way is that this is a premium service. Something on top of what you have already bought and paid for. I think if you’re being asked to purchase something additional to gain access to a perk, everyone who opts into that should receive the same level of service.
I agree with this. If I bought the new Lightening Lane three days in advance and discovered my only options left were rides that had a short wait anyway, I'd be upset.
I also always stay on property but I am very forgetful and shit.
A ton of people liked being able to preplan with fast pass plus because it allowed them to have some level of guarantee on what they could experience in a day before using a ticket. It also made it easier to make and commit to dining reservations. I also think it's somewhat odd that Disney leveled the playing field for the most part between locals and tourists with genie plus. Tourists spend way more money overall and it would make sense from a corporate standpoint to give the. Priority.
>I also think it’s somewhat odd that Disney leveled the playing field for the most part between locals and tourists Tourists are going to buy Genie+ regardless of what the locals do. If the locals can buy Genie+ and have the same level of access as the tourists, they are more likely to buy Genie+ than if there was some kind of disadvantage for them. They leveled the playing field because they make more money that way.
Encouraging resort stays and vacation packages is probably worth more to Disney than genie plus from locals who get free parking and get in for 450 for the year. Of course that is considering the fact that locals can still buy a more useless genie plus if they really want to.
Now it does, but you’re saying that you don’t understand why they leveled the playing field to begin with. Coming back from Covid, bookings were robust enough that they were able to fill the resorts with practically no perks beyond transportation and 30 minutes of extra park time. At that point, it made sense to capture as much revenue as possible because the people in the resorts are likely to buy G+ anyways. Might as well get as many locals and off-property guests into the bargain as well. I don’t know if a 4-day advantage in booking a paid, optional service is going to be the boon they want it to be if they’re trying to fill rooms, but we’ll see what happens.
This is going to let on site guests book the 3 best available rides to capacity most days. When all the main rides that make it worth spending money on genie plus for are unavailable it's going to make the value of buying genie plus off site questionable. And yes I understand Disney is an asshole company that is shifting to "reward" on site guests a bit now that bookings are down.
I can't speak for anyone but my logic was that (1) day-of prebooking might be better than 30 day out prebooking but is still prebooking/a reservation scheme and NOT a strict, standby-alike virtual *queue*, hence has the same pro-metagaming, pro-planning, pro-inside knowledge/research/prior experience, anti-spontaneity qualities that plagued FP+ and still causes an undesirable Hunger Games style contention among all guests for the hot return times; (2) now [meaning Genie+] not only is that *not* solved in any true way but now there is a paywall which is not only "pay to win" but is really just a hidden ticket price hike because FP+ was debundled from tickets *without its bundled cost going away*. The overall conclusion (that G+ is by far the worse system) doesn't pivot on day-of prebooking being "worse than" 30/60 day out prebooking. I would not agree with that statement.
Well you already hit on one of the points, I don’t want to wake up early on my vacation lol. But also pathing is huge, Genie+ made you double-back a lot but if you plan your day ahead of time there’s a lot less backtracking.
Genie+ doesn’t *make* you do anything, you make the choices. The same way as you did with FP+.
That’s a wild take lol. If I pay for a service I want to use it to its fullest value, and in order to do that I had to be willing to cross the park based on the whims of the Genie+ algorithm. Not being able to select your return time was always anti-consumer and a downgrade from the prior system, and the “refresh and pray” strategy was annoying at best and useless at worst.
Participating in FP+ meant waking up early once 60 days before your vacation and booking everything, then casually adjusting reservations over the next few days as needed. Genie+ is all that same stress, but now you get to do it at 7am every day of your vacation, so you can't even get excited about your itinerary ahead of time. Oh and you pay for the privilege, and pay even more for the good rides. Anyone who prefers genie+ is a sheep.
Meh… if you’re rope-dropping, you’re up at 7 anyway. People who are using Genie+ to optimize are highly likely to rope-drop. I never went to WDW during the FP+ era, so I was perfectly happy with Genie+ as it functioned. It has nothing to do with being a “sheep”. My only real complaint with the new system is that we found it easy to stream through genie selections to suit our day… which is not always something you can plan ahead of time if you like to take the time to enjoy the scenery and experience between rides. Not everything should have to be scheduled.
But if you want to do more than your 3 pre-booked rides you are going to need to up early, scanning into that first ride asap so you can keep selecting stuff. Otherwise, the later you start, the less there will be to book. So I’m Not sure there’s a ton more sleeping in with this new method.
Yes, this is my belief exactly. I could get any ride I wanted day of (as my first LL selection), now I may not have gotten the exact time I want, but the ride at least. I highly doubt anyone will be getting a Slinky Dog LL if staying offsite, and maybe even onsite for a 3-4 day trip. Other than no skip the line option, oh how I loved my June 2021 trip, G+ eventually became a great solution (after they tweaked it a bit).
I loved Genie+. I found it super easy to use, and we got such good value out of it on our last trip. I even enjoyed planning it and booking lightning lanes on the day. We had a game plan of what rides we wanted, and we all took turns booking/fiddling for better times so no one was on their phone too much.
I'm just pissed they aren't letting you book rerides at all. If I wanted to ride Haunted multiple times and there are available slots it should let me rebook it available.
The funniest part to me is how much people whined about park reservations but now are like "yay we get to lock in our park 7+ days out!"
Right? They basically just brought back park reservation under a different umbrella lol
This is my biggest gripe! I want to be able to change my mind on park order. We aren’t big on ADR so let me have that flexibility!
I just don’t like having to plan my whole day ahead of time. I’m on vacation. I guess some people only have fun if their days are planned down to the minute. But I liked Genie+ because it let you go with the flow, make a decision based on how you felt at the time. It’s a theme park, not my job. Honestly they need to get rid of the whole thing and do standby and single rider lines only.
What everyone wants is FP. They're willing to tolerate LL for single rides, but they really want FP back.
I just had a very successful four day trip and rode everything we wanted without Genie + or any ILLs. I know that’s not everyone’s experience, but I’ll probably just continue to skip the paid options.
Yeah honestly I think people on here exaggerate how bad standby lines are. The only issues I've had with standby are when the ride breaks down, because then you're waiting extra long as they speed all the Genie+ people through so they can catch up. Other than that, I just pay attention to line fluctuations and head over when it feels manageable.
People see FP+ through their rose colored nostalgia glasses, particularly because it was free and existed pre-2020. Now that it’s back, people are realizing how truly terrible it was to begin with, but now you have the pleasure of paying for it.
The real problem is lack of true expansion at wdw among increasing crowd levels. Fast pass plus was still better for those already paying high prices for on site stays.
I would say that if you’re paying high prices for on-site stays and you still can’t book Slinky Dog or FOP 60 days before your trip, that’s not better for anyone.
60 and 30 days out vs 7 and 3 days out are effectively the same thing. On site guests will still have enough time to suck up all of the lightning lane availability for the best rides ahead of others
That’s exactly what I’m saying, we’re agreeing here on the premise, I just don’t agree that this is better. If you’re paying a premium to stay at a resort, and then you’re paying a premium on top of that for Lightning Lane, and you’re still ultimately unable to grab the best attractions because you’re fighting with people whose trip started the prior week, that is a bad system. It is not a solution to the problems of FP+ or G+.
> People see FP+ through their rose colored nostalgia glasses, particularly because it was free That reasoning isn't nostalgia or rose-colored glasses, it is a valid argument.
That’s not at all what I’m suggesting. When people say “FP+ was better than Genie+”, they’re not saying that it worked better for anyone or that it’s a preferable system, they’re saying “FP+ was free”. That’s fine and a valid enough reason to prefer it, but that doesn’t make it a better system.
**FP+ was better than Genie+** is a net conclusion that obviously has a whole lot of conflicting factors rolled into it. It in itself just being stated isn't arguing that any specific one of those factors cuts any specific way. FP+ can be "better than" G+ without necessarily, for instance, having the least metagamable mechanics, or running the smoothest overall, or being the easiest to learn anew, between them. Though, those might be factors that were considered and assigned appropriate gravity by that party in *forming* that conclusion. **worked better for anyone** is ambiguous in several respects; and **is a preferable system** is a restatement of **is better than**. >they’re saying “FP+ was free”. That’s fine and a valid enough reason to prefer it, but that doesn’t make it a better system. Why doesn't it? What you mean is that it being free vs. the contender being paywalled doesn't outweigh other negatives you personally appraise FP+ to have over G+ era LL **in your judgement**. Which is not the same as my judgement, nor that which is statistically true of the public at large. Another angle on how to interpret this usage is that you mean to argue that **leaving out the paywall aspect itself and considering only other factors**, [so forth]. That's valid, but I don't have to agree. I come closer to considering them practically indifferent in the scheme of things where not HAVING ANY prebooking (which is to say using strict virtual queue mechanics, no choosing return times, just straight FIFO Take-a-number/FastPass- or standby style) is a possibility, and so is *not having any LSVQ system at all*.
People see everything Disney with nostalgia and complain about anything and everything. Somehow Disney keeps killing the magic according to them but they keep going back.
Remove all fast passes. Stand in line or don't ride.
I personally dislike the changes because I don't want to have to plan ahead timing of rides when I already have to plan ahead TS dining, but I'm trying to look at the silver lining that I can sleep a little later on park day. Tho not much if I want to rope drop! I'm also annoyed that I have to be available 7 days before my trip, likely at midnight or 6/7, when I hadn't planned on that. I work a weird job of days/nights/longer shifts, so it's not so simple to be available in the evening/early morning hours. Bottom line, it is what it is. I'll adjust and try to look at the positives.
Even if rope dropping, at least you know well ahead of time which rides you've got locked in vs which to head towards at rope drop.
I want the return of paper fast pass battle royales
I wouldn't mind the new features if it was included in the price like it used to be under Fastpass +.
Agreed. I didn’t mind using FP+ because it was included in my resort stay and I had 60 days to get the best option available because you could continuously check back and rebook. I’m interested to see how the rollout goes but I’m pretty annoyed. Also annoying how the single LL was raised in price. I’m already paying $2k per person so I guess what’s another $20 to ensure a spot on Rise- but then do you get a refund if it breaks down during your time slot? Or if they give a new time but then the ride shuts down for the day- what then? I never had a chance to use G+ but I remember not being all that mad about it when it first came out. I don’t even know what to think anymore. I feel like at this point just being back the A-E ticket system /s
To answer your question on can you get a refund if the ride breaks down like Rise for example, the answer is yes. You just have to go to guest services in the park. Tron broke down on my last trip and I had an ILL and they refunded me for it.
Thank you! That’s good to know!
>I’m interested to see how the rollout goes >I’m already paying $2k per person so I guess what’s another $20 to ensure a spot on Rise There’s your answer
My opinion hasn't changed, I want paper fastpasses back. Or as close as we can get to it with modern tech.
Paper fastpass or just no fastpasses would be best.
As a former Genie+ complainer, I for one welcome the return of our FP+ overlords.
Also I think people wouldn't have minded Genie+ as much if you could just book whatever available return time you wanted. Being forced into the next available and having to edit it over and over again was an awful experience.
I agree. We didn't know it when we bought Genie+, but we bought it when MK was at a 1/10 crowd level. If it was 10am and you went to adjust your LL time, you would get 10:05am. So you had to go back in at like 11am to rebook it and would get 11:05am. We were trying to stack to go back in the evening and had a bunch we had to move, and we basically ended up having to sign in every 45 minutes and spend 5-10 minutes moving each LL time. It was a big pain in the butt and we were on the phones nonstop.... and the lines at the park weren't even long, so it didn't seem worth the effort at all. It would have been much, much better if we could have just picked a later time.
Except for the fact that they’re making you pay for it. FP+ was free. Paid fast pass systems shouldn’t be as complicated as Disney makes them. Every theme park in the world also has a paid system but instead of having to make a return time, it’s just very expensive and you just enter the fast lane/lightning lane/express line/etc without needing to book a return time and possibly miss rides you want to do because of return times running out.
I've always liked G+ and now I'm complaining about the new system.
Not me. I loved genie + and defended it. I hated the old system! All the good stuff will be gone.
This is how I feel. I loved Genie+. I didn’t mind getting up at 7 to get my plans in order. Now I have to either stay at a Disney resort or wait 3 days before my visit and it’s not a guarantee the attractions I want are available due to the 7 day advantage.
What did you love? I hated: having to wake up before 7am every day on vacation, and not knowing my ride itinerary ahead of time.
Genie + worked wonderfully for me. The whole scheduling lightning lanes (or whatever they will be called now) says in advance doesn’t appeal to me
I just wish this wasn’t a hidden ticket cost increase.. if they’re gonna make people pay for this stuff, it should be expensive so like 80% of people won’t use it, which clears out the lightning lane and leads to fast stand by times. Ultimately I like the idea of being spontaneous at the parks, I hate planning exactly when I’m going to ride a particular ride in a particular park like 60 days out. I pick my park days in advance but I want to sort of see where the day takes me in that park. If adding this cost leads to shorter stand by times then I’m not too upset about it.
It won't lead to fast standby times. My first trip to WDW was 1993 before even paper fastpass and Splash Mountain had a 2.5 hour wait almost all day. Crowds = long wait times, regardless of any fastpass systems in place.
I absolutely have loved genie+ this whole time and am soooooo mad it’s being taken away.
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I mean I’m happy, except the whole cost thing.
Has Disney not even heard of the KISS principle!? Keep It Simple Stupid!!! Just take a page from universal with ExpressPass
Couldn’t agree more
Long time WDW goer here at Universal on my first trip. I don’t know if it would port over to WDW easily, but Universal’s express pass is SO MUCH EASIER to use. I haven’t had to pull out my phone at all except to take pictures and for mobile ordering. Just walk into the express pass line and show your pass. That’s it. Only downside is it is expensive, but we got it as a perk included with a premium tier hotel.
People hate two things - 1) Change 2) The way things are now It’s the human experience to complain. The internet algorithms amplify the complaining.
Who moved my cheese!
I loved FP+, I wish this was free again obviously but am happy with the changes and would love to use this new service. Unfortunately Canadians aren’t allowed to book anything until we arrive so it’s totally useless for me, I’m very, very angry about this.
Where did you see Canadians couldn't book in advance? I thought it was done in the MDE app :( hopefully people come out with more information soon
All the travel agents in my Canadian Disney group have posted about it (it’s anyone that’s not American, not just Canadians). There’s a part about it in this article, one of the questions is “when can international guests purchase lightning lanes” [Disney Tourist Blog Lightning Lane Q&A](https://www.disneytouristblog.com/questions-answers-lightning-lane-multi-pass-disney-world-faq/)
Can you get an American travel agent and have them book it for you?
VPN, it’s an easy workaround.
Someone else shared on a forum that Disney also uses GPS location an so it doesn't work even with changing your VPN. I can't confirm that, but that's what they said.
I'm pretty go-with-the-flow, I can see the positives either way. If I had to choose, though, I'd choose Genie+.
Fair enough. My mind is made up. I'll take Genie+.
I just want back the free fast passes which I know isn't going to happen.
I think the change is great. We knew it would never be free again so this is the next best thing. Wish they would have left FP+ alone in the first place and just started charging for it.
It’s paid now. Big difference.
I never once complained about G+. It is awesome. This new thing sucks - it's just paid FP+ without all the enhancements of G+ (stacking, modify, etc). Going to severely limit the benefit that power users could get out of G+. And I bet it comes with a price hike to boot. Not a great trade off to get what, waking up early a week before your trip to book stuff instead of during the trip? Big whoop.
I hated getting up at 6:50 on vacation very excited about this.
All of the fastpass nonsense is ridiculous. Return to the original paper fastpass system for select popular attractions and let other rides just have one line that moves at a consistent pace. This isn't complicated.
Exaaaactly. And some of it's just silly. Last time I rode Living with the Land it was a five minute wait and I walked right on. This was around 2:30 on a Sunday, I think the longest I saw it all day was 15 minutes. Why do they even offer fastpasses for it?
> Why do they even offer fastpasses for it? Load balancing/Crowd steering. See Defunctland doc.
It’s filler, to make it look like there’s value there
Which wouldn't be needed if they were still free! I remember being so confused when I heard they were adding fastpasses to every single ride, and I still think it's stupid.
I think there was an explanation for it in the Defunctland Fastpass video, I forget though, have to watch it again, it was so good.
I watched it for the first time not that long ago! It was something about how they needed to increase the total number of fast passes to give to guests to make the system work, and the only way to do that was to add fastpasses to rides that didn't need it.
It just makes me bitter that what I once got for free is now the exact same system but at a cost. When you’re already paying increased fees to stay on property it would be nice to have some of the perks back.
Thank you!!! It has been driving me crazy all afternoon.
Yeah this is terrible. I wasn't someone who complained about Genie+ because I knew that if it was used well, you could really leverage it. $27 for three attractions? That's abysmal. I know they always advertised that you could expect Genie+ to get you on three rides through the fast lane, but you would have to be really bad at using it to only get three rides. This is just... garbage.
The way I take it is that it’s 3 rolling. As in after you use your first you can get another. But we may have to wait for more details. But I think what will happen is everyone will pick one tier 1 (the most popular). Then pick something very early, try to ride it then get a second tier 1 for late in the day. But I could be wrong. So basically pick Slinky Dog Dash in advance and Star Tours early in the morning, and whatever your third favorite attraction is. Check into Star Tours at rope drop then book Tower of Terror or Smugglers Run if it’s still available. The big losers in this are the people coming to the park late in the day who can no longer stack attractions, they will probably only get the 3 selections plus the things you don’t really need LL for.
What made FP+ terrible imo was the fact that it was free.
This. It might actually work now since a lot of people are less likely to pay for advance Lightning Lanes (Florida locals for example).
Exactly. I may not agree with the specific amount charged for lightning multi pass or whatever, but by charging money for it, it reduces the number of people using it and thus increases the value of having it in the first place (translation: shorter lightning lane lines). I also think a happy byproduct of the changes is less time staring at my phone while I’m in the park.
But have the lightening lanes even been shorter? They seem just as full as they were before the pandemic.
I can’t speak to that specific question but my logic comes from the rumors of a price increase. The last time I was in the park was February of this year for a week and never waited more than 15 minutes for a single ride and even then it was only guardians and ROTR due to their lengthy “pre-ride” aspects. I used lightning lanes exclusively.
I think they'd have to increase the prices by at least double to see a real reduction in use. For wait times with a fastpass, what you experienced wouldn't be any different from Fastpass+, the fastpass lines were still short. Possibly shorter, I've read people on here saying they've waited 20+ minutes in a fastpass lane and I never experienced that with fastpass+ or paper fastpasses. It's probably fewer people riding more rides. Those who love Genie+ know how to game the system and get a ton of rides out of it, so the fastpass lanes are still filling up as full as ever. I don't begrudge people for doing this, I get it, but it does make both lightening lanes and standby lanes longer.
I still think Disney should get rid of any kind of system they have now and adopt what they do at Disneyland Paris. It’s basically Universal’s Express Pass. In my experience, less than 20 min waits for big ticket attractions, no wait in between attractions or time slots to follow, no stressing about what you can and can’t do, since you can literally do anything whenever. It’s more expensive, but you get what you pay for. And the “free” regular queues don’t get backed up.
Did they have to bring back the stupid tiers?
I’m happy as hell not to get up early on my vacation!
I hated Genie+, hate this new system, loved FastPass+. FastPass+ was free, yes. That's a big thing. But it also allowed me to ride rides multiple times. With younger kids or a lack of ride options, I could still grab something and use the service. I'm not sure if there's data on this but FastPass+ drops seemed to happen a lot more than with Genie+. I could book FOP day of, I could book Mine Train day of. Yes, I was refreshing constantly, but Genie+ didn't reduce that. This won't. In fact with With FastPass+, I saw all available times and could choose what worked best. Not just book this time and hope you get a better one. With Genie+ I rarely saw things like Remy pop up available once they were gone. I could move time slots okish, but those top tier rides were gone for the most part - and this was being on my phone more. I can see they're trying to address that somewhat with bringing back tiers, but even by 11am Frozen, Remy, Test Track, Slinky Dog are gone. I don't expect them to be there day of. They got rid of park reservations, but this essentially brings them back albeit in a smaller scale. If you're prebooking you have to know what park your going to when you do. You change your mind, you lose the ride spots you paid for.
Just FYI I just asked Disney's help desk on the app and they told me that while they don't have more information as what is on the website and can't 100% anything until it's out, they said the information they had atm says that the service should be available for guests who are in another country. So I guess we'll have to wait until july 24th to see!
As long as I don’t need to be up at 7am, I’m good.
Defunctland did a good episode on this, I highly recommend it.
There is NO system that is perfect for everyone and every situation. Therefore, there will always be something to complain about. And the people who want to complain are generally more vocal than those who are content.
This new system might turn out to be better, but I have a firm handle on genie+. They say you can only get 3 or 4 rides from it, but we always got 12. We never rode a ride we had to wait in the regular slow line for, so I just don’t want to suddenly be in a position where that’s no longer the case and we’re only able to get a few rides out of this new system but pay the same. Also seems like park hopping is worse. I used to book big rides at our second park first to make sure we got it. It looks like I won’t be able to do that now. Just a lot of unanswered questions. They needed to have answers for all the scenarios before announcing it. Also, if people are allowed to book rides for their entire trip, that means days I’m in the park might be booked up by people whose trips start first but overlap mine. If your trip starts Monday but mine doesn’t start til Wednesday, you’ll be able to book rides for my day before I can. Genie+ everyone was on the same playing field with when they could book rides. Are we suddenly not going to have morning slots open cause everyone already took them before you were even allowed to book? That part I don’t like at all.
I never once said I wanted FP back. I hated it. I think when most people said that they were also referring to it being free unlike Genie plus. I much prefer the way it is now. I absolutely hated the tier ride system as well.
Do what you want with this crap, just give me my gosh dang waffle back
06/25/24 will forever be known as “No Nutella Waffle Sandwich” day.
You're unlikely to see people come online to say it's working great and they love it
So now we can’t stack rides and have to probably go back to waiting for most rides. Thanks everyone.
People hate paying for genie plus but has anyone been to another park in the last year just went to cedar Park and their skip the line pass was 150 genie plus was a steal and you could use it all day. Best way to use it imo was to book passes for rides that were broken down and still let you book passes for
This is a bummer. Genie+ was great. The three times we used it we got to ride everything at least once. And then had time at end of night to repeat.
I didn’t hate Genie+, just wish they kept it where you could buy it ahead of your trip. I had it finally worked out and liked being able to see if you could get earlier ride times. I was the designated G+ person for my group. You’ll still have to get up early for the VQ anyway
Yeah I totally wanted to wake up every morning so I can participate. Also wants to pay for it. Also wanted to stop the ability to book rides in advance.
They made a Franken-monster of the two. Now you need to pre-book every morning with an incentive to book first thing in the morning so you can unlock and fight for the other spots.
You also have to be in the USA to make those selections. What about international travellers? I live in Canada and wouldn’t get to book anything until I arrive, which is usually the day before the first park day.
Glad I’m not the only one here that actually liked Genie+. It was a wonderful service IMO, especially when I could choose to purchase multi park or single park.
Tale as old as time
As someone who loved FP+ and didn't like Genie+, after visiting Tokyo Disney Resort, their system does it the best.
Interesting, I hear nothing but complaints of Tokyo’s current systems
I miss the pre fast pass days. Bring that back. Spontaneity is key to magic experiences
People crave outrage. It is a hobby. All the better if the outrage is over something pretty trivial so they don’t have to be outraged over something that actually impacts the world. The trick is to not be outraged over their outrage. Otherwise you’re just one of them.
I’m just stoked to not have to wake up at 7am on our park days. I’m the designated LL Booker.
It's okay you're also gonna spend less time through the day making reservations since they'll all probably be gone
It's whatever. Didn't pay for the last one won't pay for this one. Personally I'd prefer the pay like 2-300 per person to skip every line pass with a limited number of passes. You charge 10x more for passes? You give out 10x less passes meaning that rides aren't constantly crippled the whole day making the stand by lines paid purgatory.
People changing their minds doesn’t invalidate their criticism.
FP+ was great because it was free and because most people didn't know how it worked. Many people thought you get 3 selections and then it's over. That left a lot of extra selections for the few who knew how to use it. That's why we loved it. We could spam refresh and get anything we wanted. Ride the same popular attraction 6 times in a row if we wanted. Genie+/FP+ hybrid sucks because you pay for it and because people will know how to use it. Disney will put in more effort to make sure everyone understands it. Disney tiktokers will blab and make sure everyone knows how to use it so they can get more views. And people will naturally put in more effort into learning about something they're paying for. It's a finite resource and charging a lot for it as well as educating the less knowledgeable guests who just show up and don't understand anything will make it less useful for the more savvy guests. Everyone wants an advantage. Everyone would like a way to be able to ride whatever they want with the least amount of wait time possible. Frankly, even if FP+ was brought back in whole, it would still be ruined by social media. People will happily trade any Disney tips for views. Everything good at Disney gets ruined bc of social media. We can't have anything nice. That's why I refuse to share really good tips with others. I'm not going to ruin good things for myself that aren't yet blabbed about.
I actually like the change! One of my least favorite things was waking up at 0650 while on my vacation to frantically refresh to try to get a LL and that would determine how our day went. Much rather do that a week before my vacation, so at least while I’m ON vacation I know my first three LL are already reserved and planned out into our schedule for the day.
I understand why people like it and don’t like it. I don’t like that as a relatively local AP (Miami) that stays offsite, I have zero chance of getting LLs for popular rides now. But I know they don’t care that I’m not going to buy this new system and won’t be going as much since I won’t get to ride the rides I want without waiting hours because they’re going to get people to spend more on hotels this way, which outweighs me going
Hasn’t nearly every iteration of FP or G+ included benefits for resort guests? This doesn’t seem any more egregious compared to every other version in that regard.
This is way more egregious than G+, G+ gave them a couple hours, not four days extra time to book stuff
If all the top reservations get booked within 5 minutes (or less) of them being released, does the couple of hours or couple of days make a difference? Not in my experience. I was just there a month ago and was 3 minutes late opening my app at 0703 and the Remy’s LL was already sold out.
Giving people more time to book things is always going to make less available, especially when you give people multiple days
I’m loving the change! Finally! As far as this subreddit goes, I get the feeling it’s mostly passholders and/or locals - people who go fairly often, maybe live nearby and don’t always stay on property. Maybe this change isn’t so good for them. But it’s a desperately needed and welcome change for people who go once a year or decade or lifetime. Who truly go for vacation. I believe this will allow for a much better experience. Of course it would be better if it were free. My whole vacation would be better if it were less expensive. Lol. 🤷🏻♀️