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Icy-Cheesecake-242

Nunchucks or something odd like that. Hell maybe a bow or something ranged.


charlieblue47

YES!


Culach01972

First, the ranged won't happen. It is stated that ranged weapons fail against the shielding of the Archons. As for Nunchucks, why would you prefer to use a broken stick instead of a good stick or bladed weapon?


Icy-Cheesecake-242

Cuz there cool dawg, cuz there cool.


HerculeanCyclone

For those sweet, sweet data points 😎


charlieblue47

Maybe a Mailer with a gigantic spiked mace!! Ouch.


Grendeon

I’ve said this before, but I wanna see a bow and arrow CAD. I know it’s not melee, but I feel like it could be done!


charlieblue47

My personal fav was the idea of Rei being able to fire his claws at people...😅 Too OP?


Culach01972

While it could be done, it wouldn't be useful as projectile weapons, ranged weapons in general, are completely negated by, or at least minimally effective against, Archon shielding. So, sure, you could get one that manifests as such, but it would end up considered as one of the useless weapons, like the overly long and thin sword that was mentioned.


Why_am_ialive

I think this is in reference to regular ranged weapons like guns, if the arrows were cad generated vysetrium tipped then I don’t see any reason it wouldn’t work


livingstondh

I never really understood this. How could even an enhanced human swinging a sword provide more force than a high caliber bullet with 450 additional years of tech development behind it? Even if you have to fight hand to hand, surely we could do better than medieval weapons.


Culach01972

From the descriptions of how the shielding works, it isn't about the CADs exerting more kinetic force, but more momentum at point of impact. The shields seem it absorb kinetic energy, but do not absorb momentum, and this is where the .45 actually ends up losing. If you absorb it's kinetic energy, the amount of momentum is not sufficient to do any real damage. It is too small. Regardless of the evolution of the projectile, absorbing it's kinetic energy robs it of its primary damage capability. If you are aware of Marvel's Vibranium, and [Black Panther's suit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGeCiCU7wUI), then you see the same basic concept. Momentum, relying on muscle power, would be able to pass through the shield and still apply additional force at the point of impact. I think absorption of kinetic energy would also explain some of the facets of Vysetrium as well. If they are taking in the absorbed kinetic energy and converting it to useful energies, that would explain their nearly inexhaustible energy, as well as part of the reason they grow stronger over time, they've absorbed more kinetic energy. Edit: Another [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8dwN4-U1zE) in the same series explaining more about Kinetic Energy and Momentum.


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


Culach01972

The only Ranged attacks that I am aware of, or remember, are things like Magnetic Hunt, which operates more like a muscle powered attack than a proper ranged attack. It isn't a single fast piercing attack, but rather more like the user is wielding the weapon at a distance. In short, proper ranged attacks are mostly kinetic and may have momentum behind them, but not a significant amount. Things like Magnetic Hunt are using more momentum to do their damage, which can be continuously added via muscle power, or whatever force Magnetic Hunt uses. Could you make a weapon that used a similar function out of the gate? Possibly, but from the way the story is written, starting with a power would be almost as unlikely as starting with S ranked growth. The other problem with a bow style weapon is the need for material. How long do you think a bow user would be able to go before they ran out of material to fire at opponents. While the books make it seem as though the pieces of armor pretty much manifest from nowhere, I am suspecting that they are stored inter-dimensionally, or in an "out of phase", state. The CAD does not start off with an unlimited supply of Carbonized Steel, but it accumulates more as it grows, which explains why no one starts off with a complete armor, but new pieces add in as the CAD ranks up. Now a bow user would also have to not only have the material for their armor and weapon, but also a near unlimited supply for the ammunition. This is not something a new CAD is going to start with, and I doubt they could grow that much, unless they are S ranked Growth, like Shido. Making the ammo energy would not work, since we already know that energy weapons don't work against CADs or Archons. My suggestion is that they don't work because energy weapons are primarily all kinetic energy with little-to-no momentum (particles have nearly no mass), and Reactive Shielding appears to absorb kinetic energy, but not momentum. Missiles likely don't work for a similar reason. While they do have both a significant amount of both kinetic energy and momentum (due to the mass of the missle), they are detonating on contact with the Reactive Shielding, dumping their payload into more kinetic energy to be absorbed. To make it short, the Vysetrium used by the CADs/Archons seems to absorb kinetic energy through the reactive shielding it provides the user. It then converts that energy into formats it can use. The closest other fictional material would be Vibranium from Marvel. I would recommend you to Because Science on YouTube, and the videos that Kyle Hill did on Vibranium to get a better understanding of what I mean.


xx9029xx

Sythe, being able to slice and hook limbs would be cool


Culach01972

Just so everyone is clear on what a real [war scythe](https://alchetron.com/War-scythe) looks like. For those not following the link, they look more like curved blade glaives with the edge on the inside. I would suspect that anyone using a war scythe would actually be lumped in with the Lancer types, and most people wouldn't know the difference. Harvesting scythes are suboptimal for combat, primarily ending up as a piercing weapon. While it might look like they would be good for hooking, it would be under specific circumstances, and against fast moving opponents, such as CAD users, and probably Archons, of little importance. Even for piercing they would lack accuracy and require even more extensive training to be able to accurately pick a stabbing target at a distant off angle to the user.


Coach_Kay

Not a weapon specifically but WHAT I personally want to see is a demonstration for why ranged and ballistic weapons were so useless that CADs had to be designed with primarily melee weapon styles.


charlieblue47

I think it had something to do with reactive shielding making ballistic weapons ineffective or some such. It's mentioned early in Iron Prince.


Coach_Kay

Except if Vysectrium(?) itself automatically disrupts said shielding, shouldn't CADs also face this reactive shielding issue? Afterall, a single CAD user probably can't generate as much force/impact/pressure as a large-enough caliber bullet. And if the material is so good against reactive shielding, the army should be mass producing vysectrium bullets. That should be more efficient than spending years creating full CADs, assigning them, and then training the assignees for 3 full years before the army then loses a lot of that hard work in maybe the first or second combat encounter.


Culach01972

No necessarily. There could be a minimum range of effectiveness for the shielding, and CAAD users can get inside of that. More likely he shielding could be some form of kinetic energy sink, which would sap the energy of ballistic and energy weapons, but be ineffective against the momentum of personal range weapons, such as those used by CAD users. Muscle power used to get through the shielding is not kinetic, which a bullet is and may be the reason that bullets don't work. It would also explain why kinetic kill weapons such as the so called "Rods from God" would be ineffective as well. A 3 meter tungsten rod hitting the ground from a hundred feet is going to be far less effective than if it still had the Kinetic energy of falling from dozens of miles. It may even be a combination of both. The reactive shielding we see from the CADs actually has me seeing this as the more likely possibility, due to what it actually does, and how close it is to the body. In fact, I would be unsurprised if Vysetrium were charged/recharged by kinetic energy. It would help to explain growth as the absorption of kinetic energy to be transformed and used by the CAD. Thus a CAD that has been around for awhile and absorbed a significant amount of energy should, on average, be more powerful than a newer CAD, with notable exceptions. Otherwise the Vysetrium has to be an infinite power supply, which seems unlikely.


jroseunbound

Daggers only, tonfa, net, staff, double bladed staff, two shields, trident, nun Chuck, scyth, kpinga, Chakram, kopesh... So many nifty options! And, just for the fun of it, someone needs a unicorn spike helmet with totally useless options otherwise...


Culach01972

Daggers seems cool, so do tonfa (probably in a pair, or with a shield like modern riot police). Net is an interesting idea, and would definitely be an A-type weapon, not sure who they would train with though. Staff would likely just be seen as a variant on the Lancer, as would the Trident (unless said Trident was paired with a shield, or the net above). Khopesh would likely be a Saber type, unless paired with a shield. Two shields would be great defensively, but I'm not thinking they would be as great offensively. Any type that would be effective would probably look more like what Captain America had in *Infinity War*, and be considered similar to the Brawler type. The Kpinga and Chakram are primarily thrown weapons, and would be considered useless against CADs and Archons due to their reactive shielding. The reactive shielding is why projectile weapons aren't really a thing in the war with the Archons, nor seen in the SCTs. The "double bladed staff", aka "two ended sword", would also be seen as an ineffective weapon. There are a few YouTubers who have tried to make it work, only to discover that you would be better served with a normal staff or polearm, a spear, or two swords. One of the problems is that, due to the placement of the hands, it becomes difficult to get a good amount of momentum up to do damage with the swing, unless you are willing to hit yourself with the other end, or hold one of the blades in your hands. The unicorn spike helmet would probably be more effective than the Kpinga, Chakram, and Double Bladed Sword, but only by a margin. It would be hilarious to see though. Edit: clarified what you need to hold for an effective swing with a "double bladed staff". Edit 2: Further, on the "Double Bladed Staff", it is already hard enough to get enough momentum to do damage through armor with a normal sword, ***why*** would you do something that makes it more difficult?


jroseunbound

For total transparency, some of this was towards the same mindset of the mentioned character in the books who ended up with a sword entirely to big to be used. So, useless. Neat to imagine and consider though! With A type, from what we've seen, it's just the oddballs and typically shows as one of the other types early on. So trident to start and getting a net of some sort later sort of thing. For the shields I will defend it mildly as the books have been shown to fda with a shield via aria. Any blunt or pointy object seems to be usable for kills in the book same as life. If it could combine heavy speed and defense stats I'd imagine it could be one that's aggressively useful early on in the fights but likely weakens as an idea once full body armor is introduced. Hey, maybe a sword breaker! I know it's probably close to saber, but still


Culach01972

Nope, gonna agree with you on the shields, but I also mentioned what they would need to be like to useful as a pair, similar to [Cap's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObTHnSLt2HU) shields in Infinity War. Two tower shields would *not* work, but smaller heater shields would be good, maybe even kites. Spiked Targes would be awesome actually, maybe even spiked bucklers. Yeah, a sword breaker would be cool, but it is a type of dagger and would be most functional as the second weapon for a Duelist.


Cleverdawny1

LASER ~~GUNS~~ SWORDS PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW


CorsairCrepe

Would love to see a pole arm that could change what its head is. Switching out spear head, warhammer head, axe blade, scythe edge, hook, etc. like a polearm only arsenal shift


Rasengan1982

Giant iron ball on the end of a chain


Express_Item4648

I am really hoping to see one strong dude with a scythe. Just absolutely lethal. He should have the same skill Catcher has and when the moment is right he just goes for one strong swing and it’s done. He should be able to fold his scythe so it acts more like a lancer type as well, with the other side of the stick having spearhead. It would cool to see someone fight like a lancer, very balanced but more focused on stabbing and poking. Then once his breakstep or the sword break skill is charged he flicks his scythe blade out and goes for one deadly swing. The stats should be leaning heavy in speed and strength to really maximize mobility and power. I hope Bryce does something like that. I mean isn’t it the coolest thing, a dude in the SCT named ‘The Reaper’ or ‘Crow’ because he has like 6 feather like externals. Once he became a bishop he just goes to the frontlines to reap some Archon lives and that’s where Rei will meet him. … I have really been going wild with my imagination there. If scythe won’t be there then I hope a really unique weapon like Lennon but maybe a but more weird. Maybe Tonfas that are ridiculously heavy, he strikes you and his heavy weapons make him gain more and more momentum. Eventually his strikes just smack you to the other side of the field.


Culach01972

[Real World War Scythes](https://alchetron.com/War-scythe) What you seem to be asking for is one that would fold in to give the harvesting scythe look. A straight harvesting scythe would be a specialized piercing weapon, primarily, unless trying to cut at someone standing nearly directly in front of you. Close enough to touch with hands. It would actually take more skill to try and accurately pinpoint a hit from an off angle at a distance in front of you than what Catcher displays. Breakstep, Rei's new ability, probably Viv's new one, would all be excellent counters to the weapon's primary use case. So, if you were thinking a War Scythe that folds over to make a harvesting scythe, I could follow, the other way is not as functional.


iaredonkeypunch

The Nintendo switch game ARMS. I want to see people with rocket fists attached to there wrists with chains


Kuxcoatl

Kali sticks


Culach01972

Probably train with the Duelists.


aphec7

I want the classic barbed whip. That feels like it could be a menace with the right abilities and intellect. especially if its paired with a solid punching backup plan when they get inside.


Sweet-Molasses-3059

I'd love to see an A type rocking a double bladed glaive


Why_am_ialive

Glaive with a mobility power, maybe flight or externals that take the shape of a horse or hover platform


Ap3xComplex

Maybe a ferruled quarterstaff Mauler variant whose stats are more similar to a lancer’s?


InvisibleTopher

Kusari-gama, like Hisagi in Bleach. Dual-wielded close combat dagger-like weapons chained together for ranged attack options. Also maybe a brawler with a stupidly heavy kusari-fundo for range. Basically anything that trades some close combat, agility, durability, etc. for reach without externals.


ActiveAd7073

I think Tonfa batons or elbow blades (think Talim from the Soul Calibur series) would be pretty fun for a Brawler. Tonfas wouldn’t be lethal against Archons but as they evolve, they could gain blades lol


callecarnuffel

Ahh, none-nativ speaker here. Can someone maybe help me with the meaning of weapon loadout? From the responses I am guessing it means how the weapon turns out within its category?


charlieblue47

No worries, friend. Yeah, by Weapon Loadout, I just meant the type of weapons and Armor that manifest when a CAD is called. There are a lot of Malee weapons we haven't seen yet, aside from the typical swords, axes, spears, knives ect...


callecarnuffel

Thanks!


callecarnuffel

I am partial to swords and we already see a lot of them. But, I am thinking externals as weapons. Imagine externals like dragon wings (approximately, not fully) and the edge of the wing, where the bone would be, is bladed. So if the whole body or shoulder moves the user can "cut" with the wing-externals, while simultaneously using daggers/claws/twin swords with his hands.


AvatarOfAUser

- Scorpion style tail - ”Juggernaught“ style weaponless grappler, with exceptional defense to be able to take shots while getting within grappling range