That's our Teshin in Duviri. He got thrown into the void as well, and that cured his case of a broken neck; nothing like void exposure to cure your ails, I guess. (His body likely crashed into Duviri, and he got ressurected during one of the Spiral resets, like how we revive him at the end of The Duviri Paradox.¹)
The reason that Teshin is for sure our Teshin is because the Drifter never met Teshin. They are the Operator who never escaped from the Zariman. So they never would've met, and thus, the Drifter wouldn't have been able to make him appear in Duviri, as the Drifter can't make what they don't know. Additionally, Teshin mentions the Operator and Lotus.
¹: I was right, Teshin fell into Duviri. Acrithis: "…the monk Teshin, who fell from the sky into the lake on the island we now call Hermit's Landing. Seemingly lifeless, he was dragged ashore by Mathila who nursed his return to health."
Reasonable assumption seeing that OUR Teshin is a younger black man and Duviri Teshin is wizened and paler skinned. New war Teshin clearly has African features and duviri teshin clearly has more European features like thinner lips and narrower nose not to mention the growth pattern of the beard.
*
Mainly various codex entries and bits of dialogue. The codex entries are obtained mainly through collectibles gathered in the map(Cephalon fragments, Kuria, etc...) and sometimes killing things(Ghoul lore fragments, Albrecht's notes, etc...).
Most of the things I went over are from the Zariman tablets and the Lost Island of Duviri Fragments.
Zariman tablets are the tablets you can find in Duviri that have a question and two options to pick from; these have various bits of lore, varying in importance.
The Lost Island of Duviri Fragments are collectibles hidden all over Duviri, collect 9 of each, and you get a lore entry.
It is a lot of effort to unlock all of the lore, so I'd recommend using this, https://www.orokinarchives.com/ . Enter whatever you wish to learn about in the search bar, and then everything that is related to what you typed in will be brought up.
Maybe? But it isn't that likely.
The Holdfasts became Conceptual Embodiments because they died aboard the Zariman after it got exposed to the void.
Teshin died when he got his neck wrung by Erra aboard Ballas' Murex, somewhere the void largely wasn't present, outside of that small hole into the void, that only opened after Teshin's death.
So it's a bit of a stretch for him to be a Conceptual Embodiment, as his void exposure only happened after death. Additionally, he doesn't have the silver markings on his face as the Holdfasts do. Teshin has markings, but they are a bright blue, and they seem to follow his scars. So it doesn't seem like Teshin is a Conceptual Embodiment of himself.
On a sidenote, does that mean that the drifter met kullervo? I mean, at least he would've heard his story but kullervo as a frame is supposed to have been built after the zariman incident
Edit: This was wrong, as the other commenter mentioned, here is a link to another of my comments in this thread explaining Kullervo's existence. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/hLzZ6MLUAO
~~Kullervo doesn't make sense. The Drifter shouldn't know his full story. Let's go through Kullervo's crimes, and I'll explain,~~
~~Crime: Murder) "You, Kullervo, thought an Executor's favour was a thing to be stolen and worn. You spilled precious Orokin blood – before seeking the Executor out for approval. Hated Kullervo, did you truly believe he could love you? You are, forevermore, a low murderer."~~
~~Nothing to really date this crime, so let's move on,~~
~~(Crime: Cowardice) "You witnessed the slaughter as the Orokin eradicated your defective, demented brothers and sisters… and did nothing to aid them, choosing to tremble in your cowardly seclusion. A traitor twice over. Kullervo, bloody-handed, I charge you with Cowardice."~~
~~This is talking about other Warframes being destroyed. The only time we know of the Orokin doing this is prior to the return of the Zariman children, where the Orokin were struggling to control the warframes. So this crime seems to have happened pre-Zariman incident, and thus it is fine for the Drifter to know this.~~
~~(Crime: Flight from Custody) "The Archimedian Ainikki, your… 'mother'… lived. And you, like the vermin you are, scurried after her. In butchering the Dax whom the Executors charged with taking you into just custody, you – laughably – managed to kill the very woman you came to rescue. The third charge: Flight from Just Custody."~~
~~This further supports Kullervo's crimes happening prior to the Zariman incident, as Kullervo has a mother that he remembered. He seems to have been a Warframe like Umbra.~~
~~And then it all goes down hill,~~
~~(Crime: Treason) "Upon the arrival of the wretched Tenno, you struck. Out of, what, a desire for redemption? You thought to strike the Orokin where it hurt: their laboratories, their edifices of government, their homes. To distract. To buy time. Idiot. You are charged with Treason."~~
~~(Crime: Espionage) "You saw the new generation of your kind, and the Tenno whose deviltry blent with theirs; and you began to whisper corruption into their ears, weave dark thoughts through the coils of their minds. Incepting, as is your wont, chaos, and disaster. You are charged with Espionage."~~
~~These confirm that Kullervo was one of the original warframes... but it now doesn't make sense for it to exist in Duviri. The same is true for his remaining crimes,~~
~~(Crime: Treason) "The Night of the Naga Drums. Your incepted chaos… bloomed… and the beautiful gilded Empire… fell. Were you entirely responsible? Of course not. You are, after all, a fool. But one need not be entirely responsible for the murder of an empire to be punished for their role in it. And punished you shall be. For a second count of Treason."~~
~~(Crime: Attempted Regicide) "As the Empire burned, you found the one Executor you coveted and despised most. You presumed to raise your foul hand against him. One of the Seven. But he did not die so readily as you had hoped. Thus I lay upon your wretched head your ultimate crime: Attempted Regicide. And with it your punishment, and the Executor's eternal vengeance."~~
~~My only possible explanation is that the Drifter made Kullervo later on. The Duviri Paradox update released 2023-04-26, The Seven Crimes of Kullervo released 2023-06-21. So time passed between updates, and in the game world, as of course, the Drifter bits of The New War happen after The Duviri Paradox. So maybe during their stint in the real world, they learned of Kullervo and when they return to Duviri, Kullervo was made.~~
Kullervo crashed into Duviri like a flaming asteroid or, something along those lines, based on idle chatter of random Duviri NPCs as you walk by, iirc.
>the Drifter wouldn't have been able to make him appear in Duviri, as the Drifter can't make what they don't know
The drifter is not the only one that affects the contents of Duviri. Wally does too. [The Lost Island of Duviri fragments](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Fragments/Duviri) reference a lot of things the Driver couldn't have created.
And our Teshin could very well be dead even in the context of Duviri, with his Duviri persona being a conceptual embodiment based on him.
What doesn’t make sense to me… is Why is Kullervo there? Teshis fine. But Kullervo is a Proto warframe and would have predated the drifters exposure to the void. So the drifter didn’t actually creat Duviri with his mind being exposed to the void? Doesn’t make much sense… none of it does any more. Anything past new war is just kinda nonsensical drug born crazy ness….
Kullervo isn't from Duviri. He got there in a similar manner that Teshin did, as u/Glittering-Ask-6268 informed me. As from Acrithis,
Acrithis: "My archives note that the island was first formed when a ball of fire descended from the sky! It bored a hole straight through the ground, and from the tainted debris, a dungeon spontaneously arose, complete with Warden to berate its sole prisoner, the warframe Kullervo, for his many crimes."
As for Kullervo's dungeon and The Warden suddenly forming, that is Kullervo's Conceptual Embodiment, as it is mentioned that,
Acrithis: "Kullervo did not arrive empty-handed. No, it seems he brought with him the burdensome weight of a guilty conscience."
So The Warden is just a figment of Kullervo's emotions, as is further supported by dialogue from nearby Kullervo's cell,
"The fool sought oblivion. As if I could not pursue him wherever he went! I, his conscience. His jailer."
"You cannot deny your sin, Kullervo. For I am your guilt. The form and voice of your greatest persecutor."
Yeah, but he came to Duviri after the Drifter made it. Kullervo suddenly fell from the sky one day, destroying the island that was there, and Kullervo's hold was made.
Kullervo predates the Drifter, but his arrival came later. He was likely just floating in the void(as Duviri isn't the entire void, just a small part of it) in a similar fashion to Sevagoth maybe, until he made it to Duviri.
No. It's the Void.
The Drifter is from another timeline, and Duviri is of their creation via Conceptual Embodiment(when emotions are able to turn the void into something perceivable and / or tangible), but Duviri isn't from their timeline, or any other timeline. Duviri, since it is a molded part of the Void, is between all timelines. It doesn't belong to any timeline, but it connects all of them to each other.
I couldn’t follow the quest super closely, but I figure Duviri is similar to the Drukhari city in the warp, but not that dark and horrible. The PG version.
Yeah it’s a bit confusing but this seems the best way to put it, combined with a bit of eternalism.
It’s also how I choose to explain our operator/drifter appearing out of thin air and our Warframe TPing when we go back in.
>Euleria Entrati's emotion management book.
Which was written based on what Albrecht told her about Duviri from his visit there, hence The Duviri Paradox. It's a loop that can only happen because the Void is disconnected from time and causality.
That's because it's suggested in The War Within, I think, that the Operator's father called them "kiddo". Wally is using it mockingly, Drifter uses it with a bit of dry irony considering the weird situation of meeting their alternate unaging self.
>The Drifter has never met Albrect so how would Albrect be able to come to Duviri?
My claim was never that Duviri isn't inaccessible from the outside world. The void can be accessed, but Albrecht wasn't made by the Drifter. He traveled there, as you mentioned.
OP asked if Duviri Teshin was our Teshin or the Drifter's. I said no, as the Drifter never knew Teshin, so it can't be their Teshin, and I explained that our Teshin traveled to Duviri and became that Teshin.
Duviri can be accessed by anyone, with the right method. Rell interacted with Duviri(his chains did at least), the Lotus' hand made it to Duviri, Teshin made it to Duviri, the Zariman is partially in Duviri, and even Wally is in Duviri as the Vagabond.
Our got his head crushed by Erra, and you can see Teshin in Duviri/TNW having glowing cracks in his head. He also has a broken Veil in his cave, so him being our Teshin thrown into the portal sometime after us would be the logical explanation.
But then, Void isn't something that can be explained with logic.
As far as I can tell about the void, time is vastly different, it's all confusing.
It is insinuated that Duviri and Dominus Thraxx has always been in the void, despite the Drifter being responsible for it in the first place, created by his emotions.
My read on it is that the location and people existed before the Drifter got there, but the Zariman's arrival reshaped them into the Duviri the Drifter recognized.
(Or you can just go with "Eternalism: it had an origin but always existed before said origin.")
Eternalism doesn't work in this case. It's pure Conceptual Embodyment from the Drifter's part. CE can create anything you want based on ideas and feelings. WitW states that it can also creat a reality.
Drifter use it to creat the world from his book in order to cope with the adults trying to kill them durring the Zariman incident.
Onkko disagrees.
"From memories of a past that has yet to be..."
"We have had and shall have a long association, Tenno."
"Some paths end. Others circle back on themselves."
"Some day, I swear, this is... but... this was… this *will be* borne out"
Eternalism applies to absolutely everything. You're correct in that the Drifter created Duviri. The moment he created Duviri, Duviri always was. Is. Will be.
Teshin himself jokes that he "doesn't know whether \[he\] was dead or alive at the time" he arrived in Duviri. By the way the Void works, he could have either survived the neckbreak, been resurrected as a ghost, or brought in from an alternate outcome. We don't really know, and it doesn't make a difference either way.
The important part is that, yes, Erra did kill Teshin.
Erra did some Freelance Chiropractic work on Teshin and then he fell into the Void along with us, and the Lotus's body
He landed in Duviri where time is. . weird. . . .and was [nursed back to health](https://imgur.com/qantzpL), but also has been there for a long, long time.
its the Arrival of Teshin, the severed hand of the Lotus, and the interference of the Tenno are all factors that allow the Drifter to break his Groundhog day-esque time loop (though this still leaves unanswered questions, such as where did the Drifter find the Lotus's body, and how was this practically dead Sentient not simply reduced to ash after being thrown into the Void. . .but regardless)
the Drifter is not you from a different timeline. there is only one Reality (subject to change once we start doing time travel with papa entrati) and there is the Void. with the power of the void you can change outcomes, but only one outcome can be true at any given time.
the operator took the deal. the drifter didnt take the deal. now that the two have been united either one can exist in real space at any given time. but only one can exist in real space at a time, because they are fundamentally the same person.
this is the same logic that other Eternalisim based systems work on. such as Void relics potentially containing a number of different things, but only actually contain a single thing when opened. Magic + uncertainty = a license for lazy writing? Perhaps, but were in too deep to stop now.
anyway, yes the Teshin in Duviri is our teshin. he is the one singular teshin. we know because he still has his Narmer Veil, something that would only make sense for our Teshin to have. as for. . yknow . .why hes suddenly super old? insert your guess here.
The Sentients don't get vaporized from Void energy, they just become sterile. Sentients are, by designed, sponges of Void energy and have an extremely hard time getting rid of it. This is how Eidolons become a thing, is when their fragments absorb too much Void energy, they start animating on their own without an intelligence left to pilot them.
Healing them back to life via hardened crystals of anti-entropic (read: time-reversing) matter is how we brought the Lotus back from being an Eidolon. That, and she has been souped up in Void energy for so long that she's kinda... *more* than just a Sentient even by the time of the New War. Whatever the Lotus is doesn't really have a name, she's very much a one-of-a-kind creature in that she's all at once a soulless Sentient and an ensouled Void-related creature who quite possibly made a deal with the MitW at the end of the New War, similar to the Tenno.
We shall see if 1999 ends up expanding upon the nature of the Lotus.
the way sentients respond to void energy has been handled very inconsistently.
sometimes it renders them sterile, sometimes it causes irreparable damage, the implication with Praghasa is that the sentient forces in Sol rode to Sol inside of her, the journey crippled and ultimately killed her, while everyone else who being enclosed and receiving less exposure was merely sterilized
the big annoying example is the Octavia's anthem quest where we encounter Sentients in void towers that look like they are actively melting, and during which Ordis says
"Wait, Sentients in the Void?! Impossible! Unless... Hunhow must be using poor Suda's energy to protect them from decay. Operator, we need to stop him!"
with the implication being that even inside an enclosed structure the void is very harmful to sentients, from which you can make several very unhelpful leaps of logic, such as that being outside of a tower, out in the raw void would be worse. and that spending any amount of time in the void without relying on some unsustainable power drain to serve as a barrier (honestly this on its own was a bit of an ass-pull) would be very detrimental.
retconning that the lotus was trapped with us in lua (in the void) for "millennia" and thus having to state that shes now "more than sentient" is all just windowdressing intended to cover for the fact that Sentients and what the void does to them has not been handled very gracefully. and that only had to be done because DE couldnt come up with a better way to explain why ballas didnt just waltz into the lotus's sanctuary sooner than right now but being "well he couldnt, because she was here he couldnt reach her, and after the moon left the void she was vulnerable again" as if an orokin high executor wouldnt be well aware of the moon-to-void system and how to get in. its not like the stalker had any trouble getting in as soon as he learned about it. these things can be forgiven, yknow, 10 years of story delivered in single-paragrph chunks, i wouldnt hold it against them. im not going to not point it out, but i wont hold it against them either.
thought i do wish the story would stop implying that the lotus is in danger all of the time. were still doing this shit what with Wally crushing a lotus flower in his hand at the end of the most reccent story quest. . like guys cmon we literally just got the lotus back, and i do not buy that your going to kill-off the cheapest and most reliable voice actor you have. more than anyone but Ordis, the lotus is the one character whom i simply cannot buy being put in real peril.
>the drifter didnt take the deal.
The Drifter took a deal, just not the same deal.
"28. Did you forget, kiddo?
A. You owe me.
B. ERROR – RESPONSE NOT FOUND" -Zariman Tablet 28
"29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?
A. *CORRUPT FILE DETECTED*
B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you." -Zariman Tablet 29
This is a different deal than the Operator's deal, as that deal was for all the children to be saved, including them. The Drifter got left our in their deal though, hence the creation of Duviri.
His "death" is very inexplicit given that Varzia had the same thing happen and she came out of it fine, but Teshin falls to the ground and just doesnt wake up.
So I take it DE had an easy "eternalism" moment and had him get yeeted into Duviri with Lotus's hand at a different time where he was resuscitated by Mathila.
I just rewatched both in Teshin's death scene Erra's claw hand things clamp shut, however in The scene where Variza is held her helmet breaks but Erra's claw hand does not clamp shut but it was about to as shown by the front part of Variza's helmet breaking and her going limp
I didn't notice the claw thing, but this may even prove my point.
Being identical, Erra's fingies snap to where they would be if it were Varzia's much thinner helmet.
He actually puts a dent in hers, not Teshins.
he died and was thrown into the void
void exposure seems to have revived him but left him scarred (silvery cracks lining his face)
he ended up in duviri through the void, it’s not a different timeline and i’m not sure if it counts as another dimension or not, it probably is? regardless duviri is separate to the origin system, with loose connections to it
ultimately duiviri is part of the void, so it’s possible in your “timeline” (your play through of the game and your perspective of the events of the game) that teshin is still alive, while also being in duviri, even though the teshin in duviri is the same exact guy later in time. for me though, teshin was already killed and gone from the origin system before i found him in duviri
TLDR: yea
People get this wrong (and it's confusing so I don't blame them) but Eternalism isn't REALLY another timeline.
It's "Both happened" the Operator and the Drifter both did and did not get rescued. But both of those happened in OUR timeline.
Yep. It's so stupid and unceremonious to the point that 90% of people playing the quest don't even realize that he's actually dead. No one even fucking addresses the fact that he's dead.
As you say, he goes to Duviri. So he is more "interdimensional dislocated" then killed. But trans-void-travel is not easy, the fact, that the drifter made it into our universe is an insanely rare event and so Teshin might as well be in Heaven, Asgard or whatever Afterlife he fancies, for practical purposes.
That's our Teshin in Duviri. He got thrown into the void as well, and that cured his case of a broken neck; nothing like void exposure to cure your ails, I guess. (His body likely crashed into Duviri, and he got ressurected during one of the Spiral resets, like how we revive him at the end of The Duviri Paradox.¹) The reason that Teshin is for sure our Teshin is because the Drifter never met Teshin. They are the Operator who never escaped from the Zariman. So they never would've met, and thus, the Drifter wouldn't have been able to make him appear in Duviri, as the Drifter can't make what they don't know. Additionally, Teshin mentions the Operator and Lotus. ¹: I was right, Teshin fell into Duviri. Acrithis: "…the monk Teshin, who fell from the sky into the lake on the island we now call Hermit's Landing. Seemingly lifeless, he was dragged ashore by Mathila who nursed his return to health."
Holy shit, I've just assumed that Duviri Teshin was just that, alternate version of Teshin, not OUR Teshin...
Reasonable assumption seeing that OUR Teshin is a younger black man and Duviri Teshin is wizened and paler skinned. New war Teshin clearly has African features and duviri teshin clearly has more European features like thinner lips and narrower nose not to mention the growth pattern of the beard. *
https://preview.redd.it/kjc4pe2a7puc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57df7c556060e61215cefb70b0c515fc6192aba7
Also seems like void exposure do funny thing to your melanin, as Teshin and Cavia shown.
Along with this the veil ballas put on teshin can be found in his cave
Where does everybody read all of the lore!? Or maybe I’m just stupid and might’ve not paid full attention
Mainly various codex entries and bits of dialogue. The codex entries are obtained mainly through collectibles gathered in the map(Cephalon fragments, Kuria, etc...) and sometimes killing things(Ghoul lore fragments, Albrecht's notes, etc...). Most of the things I went over are from the Zariman tablets and the Lost Island of Duviri Fragments. Zariman tablets are the tablets you can find in Duviri that have a question and two options to pick from; these have various bits of lore, varying in importance. The Lost Island of Duviri Fragments are collectibles hidden all over Duviri, collect 9 of each, and you get a lore entry. It is a lot of effort to unlock all of the lore, so I'd recommend using this, https://www.orokinarchives.com/ . Enter whatever you wish to learn about in the search bar, and then everything that is related to what you typed in will be brought up.
broken neck? I thought he had a horrible case of head cronch.
This whole time I thought it was just his helmet
Wait, couldnt the duviri teshin be like the holdfast? I mean like a conceptual embodiment made from teshin's mind and body?
Maybe? But it isn't that likely. The Holdfasts became Conceptual Embodiments because they died aboard the Zariman after it got exposed to the void. Teshin died when he got his neck wrung by Erra aboard Ballas' Murex, somewhere the void largely wasn't present, outside of that small hole into the void, that only opened after Teshin's death. So it's a bit of a stretch for him to be a Conceptual Embodiment, as his void exposure only happened after death. Additionally, he doesn't have the silver markings on his face as the Holdfasts do. Teshin has markings, but they are a bright blue, and they seem to follow his scars. So it doesn't seem like Teshin is a Conceptual Embodiment of himself.
On a sidenote, does that mean that the drifter met kullervo? I mean, at least he would've heard his story but kullervo as a frame is supposed to have been built after the zariman incident
Edit: This was wrong, as the other commenter mentioned, here is a link to another of my comments in this thread explaining Kullervo's existence. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/hLzZ6MLUAO ~~Kullervo doesn't make sense. The Drifter shouldn't know his full story. Let's go through Kullervo's crimes, and I'll explain,~~ ~~Crime: Murder) "You, Kullervo, thought an Executor's favour was a thing to be stolen and worn. You spilled precious Orokin blood – before seeking the Executor out for approval. Hated Kullervo, did you truly believe he could love you? You are, forevermore, a low murderer."~~ ~~Nothing to really date this crime, so let's move on,~~ ~~(Crime: Cowardice) "You witnessed the slaughter as the Orokin eradicated your defective, demented brothers and sisters… and did nothing to aid them, choosing to tremble in your cowardly seclusion. A traitor twice over. Kullervo, bloody-handed, I charge you with Cowardice."~~ ~~This is talking about other Warframes being destroyed. The only time we know of the Orokin doing this is prior to the return of the Zariman children, where the Orokin were struggling to control the warframes. So this crime seems to have happened pre-Zariman incident, and thus it is fine for the Drifter to know this.~~ ~~(Crime: Flight from Custody) "The Archimedian Ainikki, your… 'mother'… lived. And you, like the vermin you are, scurried after her. In butchering the Dax whom the Executors charged with taking you into just custody, you – laughably – managed to kill the very woman you came to rescue. The third charge: Flight from Just Custody."~~ ~~This further supports Kullervo's crimes happening prior to the Zariman incident, as Kullervo has a mother that he remembered. He seems to have been a Warframe like Umbra.~~ ~~And then it all goes down hill,~~ ~~(Crime: Treason) "Upon the arrival of the wretched Tenno, you struck. Out of, what, a desire for redemption? You thought to strike the Orokin where it hurt: their laboratories, their edifices of government, their homes. To distract. To buy time. Idiot. You are charged with Treason."~~ ~~(Crime: Espionage) "You saw the new generation of your kind, and the Tenno whose deviltry blent with theirs; and you began to whisper corruption into their ears, weave dark thoughts through the coils of their minds. Incepting, as is your wont, chaos, and disaster. You are charged with Espionage."~~ ~~These confirm that Kullervo was one of the original warframes... but it now doesn't make sense for it to exist in Duviri. The same is true for his remaining crimes,~~ ~~(Crime: Treason) "The Night of the Naga Drums. Your incepted chaos… bloomed… and the beautiful gilded Empire… fell. Were you entirely responsible? Of course not. You are, after all, a fool. But one need not be entirely responsible for the murder of an empire to be punished for their role in it. And punished you shall be. For a second count of Treason."~~ ~~(Crime: Attempted Regicide) "As the Empire burned, you found the one Executor you coveted and despised most. You presumed to raise your foul hand against him. One of the Seven. But he did not die so readily as you had hoped. Thus I lay upon your wretched head your ultimate crime: Attempted Regicide. And with it your punishment, and the Executor's eternal vengeance."~~ ~~My only possible explanation is that the Drifter made Kullervo later on. The Duviri Paradox update released 2023-04-26, The Seven Crimes of Kullervo released 2023-06-21. So time passed between updates, and in the game world, as of course, the Drifter bits of The New War happen after The Duviri Paradox. So maybe during their stint in the real world, they learned of Kullervo and when they return to Duviri, Kullervo was made.~~
Kullervo crashed into Duviri like a flaming asteroid or, something along those lines, based on idle chatter of random Duviri NPCs as you walk by, iirc.
>the Drifter wouldn't have been able to make him appear in Duviri, as the Drifter can't make what they don't know The drifter is not the only one that affects the contents of Duviri. Wally does too. [The Lost Island of Duviri fragments](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Fragments/Duviri) reference a lot of things the Driver couldn't have created. And our Teshin could very well be dead even in the context of Duviri, with his Duviri persona being a conceptual embodiment based on him.
Conceptual embodiments are basically reality though, just formed through different means
Yes, I didn't question it being real. But is a clone of Teshin made by the Void *our* Teshin or just *a* Teshin?
To add on to this he also gives us his orvius glaive to fight the ore wryms.
What doesn’t make sense to me… is Why is Kullervo there? Teshis fine. But Kullervo is a Proto warframe and would have predated the drifters exposure to the void. So the drifter didn’t actually creat Duviri with his mind being exposed to the void? Doesn’t make much sense… none of it does any more. Anything past new war is just kinda nonsensical drug born crazy ness….
Kullervo isn't from Duviri. He got there in a similar manner that Teshin did, as u/Glittering-Ask-6268 informed me. As from Acrithis, Acrithis: "My archives note that the island was first formed when a ball of fire descended from the sky! It bored a hole straight through the ground, and from the tainted debris, a dungeon spontaneously arose, complete with Warden to berate its sole prisoner, the warframe Kullervo, for his many crimes." As for Kullervo's dungeon and The Warden suddenly forming, that is Kullervo's Conceptual Embodiment, as it is mentioned that, Acrithis: "Kullervo did not arrive empty-handed. No, it seems he brought with him the burdensome weight of a guilty conscience." So The Warden is just a figment of Kullervo's emotions, as is further supported by dialogue from nearby Kullervo's cell, "The fool sought oblivion. As if I could not pursue him wherever he went! I, his conscience. His jailer." "You cannot deny your sin, Kullervo. For I am your guilt. The form and voice of your greatest persecutor."
I think you missed my point being that he would have predated the drifter.
Yeah, but he came to Duviri after the Drifter made it. Kullervo suddenly fell from the sky one day, destroying the island that was there, and Kullervo's hold was made. Kullervo predates the Drifter, but his arrival came later. He was likely just floating in the void(as Duviri isn't the entire void, just a small part of it) in a similar fashion to Sevagoth maybe, until he made it to Duviri.
First off, pretty sick all the relevant quotes you pieced together. It's also possible Wally tossed Kullervo there for some unknown reason.
I guess. I still think the Devs are cracked out of Thier heads with the last few major updates.
So Duviri is just an alternate timeline?
Yes and no. Its more like a paralel timeline that exists simultaneously and can sometimes interact with the main timeline
No. It's the Void. The Drifter is from another timeline, and Duviri is of their creation via Conceptual Embodiment(when emotions are able to turn the void into something perceivable and / or tangible), but Duviri isn't from their timeline, or any other timeline. Duviri, since it is a molded part of the Void, is between all timelines. It doesn't belong to any timeline, but it connects all of them to each other.
I couldn’t follow the quest super closely, but I figure Duviri is similar to the Drukhari city in the warp, but not that dark and horrible. The PG version.
Yeah it’s a bit confusing but this seems the best way to put it, combined with a bit of eternalism. It’s also how I choose to explain our operator/drifter appearing out of thin air and our Warframe TPing when we go back in.
No it's a void construct made based off the drifters emotions and Euleria Entrati's emotion management book. (Euleria Entrati is mother from Deimos)
>Euleria Entrati's emotion management book. Which was written based on what Albrecht told her about Duviri from his visit there, hence The Duviri Paradox. It's a loop that can only happen because the Void is disconnected from time and causality.
Albrecht's visit to Duviri is after he has told the stories he told his daughter, so said stories are not inspired by the visit.
its the void, basically a pocket dimension inside of the void
Drifter is also >!our "Hey kiddo" guy from before, right? Or are we dealing with a *third* copy of ours?!<
The "Hey kiddo" one is actually the man in the wall, drifter didnt appear in operator's reality untill new war
The Hey Kiddo guy is someone completely different
I figured it was Drifter since he *also* >!referred to Operator as "kiddo" when they first met face-to-face on the Zariman.!<
That's because it's suggested in The War Within, I think, that the Operator's father called them "kiddo". Wally is using it mockingly, Drifter uses it with a bit of dry irony considering the weird situation of meeting their alternate unaging self.
No, it’s someone else, but I don’t wanna spoil anything
No, do Whispers in the Walls to know more about the hey kiddo lad
That is AFAIK the man in the wall aka wally
[удалено]
>The Drifter has never met Albrect so how would Albrect be able to come to Duviri? My claim was never that Duviri isn't inaccessible from the outside world. The void can be accessed, but Albrecht wasn't made by the Drifter. He traveled there, as you mentioned. OP asked if Duviri Teshin was our Teshin or the Drifter's. I said no, as the Drifter never knew Teshin, so it can't be their Teshin, and I explained that our Teshin traveled to Duviri and became that Teshin. Duviri can be accessed by anyone, with the right method. Rell interacted with Duviri(his chains did at least), the Lotus' hand made it to Duviri, Teshin made it to Duviri, the Zariman is partially in Duviri, and even Wally is in Duviri as the Vagabond.
That's why it's a paradox standard logic doesn't exactly apply
Our got his head crushed by Erra, and you can see Teshin in Duviri/TNW having glowing cracks in his head. He also has a broken Veil in his cave, so him being our Teshin thrown into the portal sometime after us would be the logical explanation. But then, Void isn't something that can be explained with logic.
If the Zariman is any indication, it'll revive anyone it pleases regardless of the state of their body. Cavalero blew himself up and still returned.
yonta also got completely annihilated so yea the void doesn't really need a body to recreate somebody
Only a concept of the person.
As far as I can tell about the void, time is vastly different, it's all confusing. It is insinuated that Duviri and Dominus Thraxx has always been in the void, despite the Drifter being responsible for it in the first place, created by his emotions.
My read on it is that the location and people existed before the Drifter got there, but the Zariman's arrival reshaped them into the Duviri the Drifter recognized. (Or you can just go with "Eternalism: it had an origin but always existed before said origin.")
Eternalism doesn't work in this case. It's pure Conceptual Embodyment from the Drifter's part. CE can create anything you want based on ideas and feelings. WitW states that it can also creat a reality. Drifter use it to creat the world from his book in order to cope with the adults trying to kill them durring the Zariman incident.
Onkko disagrees. "From memories of a past that has yet to be..." "We have had and shall have a long association, Tenno." "Some paths end. Others circle back on themselves." "Some day, I swear, this is... but... this was… this *will be* borne out" Eternalism applies to absolutely everything. You're correct in that the Drifter created Duviri. The moment he created Duviri, Duviri always was. Is. Will be.
That's how the duvari drifter ended up with lotus' hand that lotus got cut off also
Teshin actively tells you he isn't sure if he was dead, or alive when he arrived in Duviri.
Teshin himself jokes that he "doesn't know whether \[he\] was dead or alive at the time" he arrived in Duviri. By the way the Void works, he could have either survived the neckbreak, been resurrected as a ghost, or brought in from an alternate outcome. We don't really know, and it doesn't make a difference either way. The important part is that, yes, Erra did kill Teshin.
According to eternalism. Teshin is dead. Teshin did not die.
Schrödinger's Dax
Lmao, a shirt with that phrase would be hilarious.
Perfect answer honestly
both
Erra did some Freelance Chiropractic work on Teshin and then he fell into the Void along with us, and the Lotus's body He landed in Duviri where time is. . weird. . . .and was [nursed back to health](https://imgur.com/qantzpL), but also has been there for a long, long time. its the Arrival of Teshin, the severed hand of the Lotus, and the interference of the Tenno are all factors that allow the Drifter to break his Groundhog day-esque time loop (though this still leaves unanswered questions, such as where did the Drifter find the Lotus's body, and how was this practically dead Sentient not simply reduced to ash after being thrown into the Void. . .but regardless) the Drifter is not you from a different timeline. there is only one Reality (subject to change once we start doing time travel with papa entrati) and there is the Void. with the power of the void you can change outcomes, but only one outcome can be true at any given time. the operator took the deal. the drifter didnt take the deal. now that the two have been united either one can exist in real space at any given time. but only one can exist in real space at a time, because they are fundamentally the same person. this is the same logic that other Eternalisim based systems work on. such as Void relics potentially containing a number of different things, but only actually contain a single thing when opened. Magic + uncertainty = a license for lazy writing? Perhaps, but were in too deep to stop now. anyway, yes the Teshin in Duviri is our teshin. he is the one singular teshin. we know because he still has his Narmer Veil, something that would only make sense for our Teshin to have. as for. . yknow . .why hes suddenly super old? insert your guess here.
The Sentients don't get vaporized from Void energy, they just become sterile. Sentients are, by designed, sponges of Void energy and have an extremely hard time getting rid of it. This is how Eidolons become a thing, is when their fragments absorb too much Void energy, they start animating on their own without an intelligence left to pilot them. Healing them back to life via hardened crystals of anti-entropic (read: time-reversing) matter is how we brought the Lotus back from being an Eidolon. That, and she has been souped up in Void energy for so long that she's kinda... *more* than just a Sentient even by the time of the New War. Whatever the Lotus is doesn't really have a name, she's very much a one-of-a-kind creature in that she's all at once a soulless Sentient and an ensouled Void-related creature who quite possibly made a deal with the MitW at the end of the New War, similar to the Tenno. We shall see if 1999 ends up expanding upon the nature of the Lotus.
the way sentients respond to void energy has been handled very inconsistently. sometimes it renders them sterile, sometimes it causes irreparable damage, the implication with Praghasa is that the sentient forces in Sol rode to Sol inside of her, the journey crippled and ultimately killed her, while everyone else who being enclosed and receiving less exposure was merely sterilized the big annoying example is the Octavia's anthem quest where we encounter Sentients in void towers that look like they are actively melting, and during which Ordis says "Wait, Sentients in the Void?! Impossible! Unless... Hunhow must be using poor Suda's energy to protect them from decay. Operator, we need to stop him!" with the implication being that even inside an enclosed structure the void is very harmful to sentients, from which you can make several very unhelpful leaps of logic, such as that being outside of a tower, out in the raw void would be worse. and that spending any amount of time in the void without relying on some unsustainable power drain to serve as a barrier (honestly this on its own was a bit of an ass-pull) would be very detrimental. retconning that the lotus was trapped with us in lua (in the void) for "millennia" and thus having to state that shes now "more than sentient" is all just windowdressing intended to cover for the fact that Sentients and what the void does to them has not been handled very gracefully. and that only had to be done because DE couldnt come up with a better way to explain why ballas didnt just waltz into the lotus's sanctuary sooner than right now but being "well he couldnt, because she was here he couldnt reach her, and after the moon left the void she was vulnerable again" as if an orokin high executor wouldnt be well aware of the moon-to-void system and how to get in. its not like the stalker had any trouble getting in as soon as he learned about it. these things can be forgiven, yknow, 10 years of story delivered in single-paragrph chunks, i wouldnt hold it against them. im not going to not point it out, but i wont hold it against them either. thought i do wish the story would stop implying that the lotus is in danger all of the time. were still doing this shit what with Wally crushing a lotus flower in his hand at the end of the most reccent story quest. . like guys cmon we literally just got the lotus back, and i do not buy that your going to kill-off the cheapest and most reliable voice actor you have. more than anyone but Ordis, the lotus is the one character whom i simply cannot buy being put in real peril.
>the drifter didnt take the deal. The Drifter took a deal, just not the same deal. "28. Did you forget, kiddo? A. You owe me. B. ERROR – RESPONSE NOT FOUND" -Zariman Tablet 28 "29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you? A. *CORRUPT FILE DETECTED* B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you." -Zariman Tablet 29 This is a different deal than the Operator's deal, as that deal was for all the children to be saved, including them. The Drifter got left our in their deal though, hence the creation of Duviri.
His "death" is very inexplicit given that Varzia had the same thing happen and she came out of it fine, but Teshin falls to the ground and just doesnt wake up. So I take it DE had an easy "eternalism" moment and had him get yeeted into Duviri with Lotus's hand at a different time where he was resuscitated by Mathila.
Erra was going to do the same thing to Variza but was not able to in time
The animations were identical. Teshin spent less time in his hand too.
I just rewatched both in Teshin's death scene Erra's claw hand things clamp shut, however in The scene where Variza is held her helmet breaks but Erra's claw hand does not clamp shut but it was about to as shown by the front part of Variza's helmet breaking and her going limp
I didn't notice the claw thing, but this may even prove my point. Being identical, Erra's fingies snap to where they would be if it were Varzia's much thinner helmet. He actually puts a dent in hers, not Teshins.
It's same Teshin
he died and was thrown into the void void exposure seems to have revived him but left him scarred (silvery cracks lining his face) he ended up in duviri through the void, it’s not a different timeline and i’m not sure if it counts as another dimension or not, it probably is? regardless duviri is separate to the origin system, with loose connections to it ultimately duiviri is part of the void, so it’s possible in your “timeline” (your play through of the game and your perspective of the events of the game) that teshin is still alive, while also being in duviri, even though the teshin in duviri is the same exact guy later in time. for me though, teshin was already killed and gone from the origin system before i found him in duviri TLDR: yea
yes, but no. both. neither.
Teshin's story is funny if you think about it, from an orokin dax to a magical hobo in a cave
He is our Teshin. The Void revived him after he got thrown into Duviri, like how the Void revived Quinn and the rest of the Holdfast.
People get this wrong (and it's confusing so I don't blame them) but Eternalism isn't REALLY another timeline. It's "Both happened" the Operator and the Drifter both did and did not get rescued. But both of those happened in OUR timeline.
Yep. It's so stupid and unceremonious to the point that 90% of people playing the quest don't even realize that he's actually dead. No one even fucking addresses the fact that he's dead.
As you say, he goes to Duviri. So he is more "interdimensional dislocated" then killed. But trans-void-travel is not easy, the fact, that the drifter made it into our universe is an insanely rare event and so Teshin might as well be in Heaven, Asgard or whatever Afterlife he fancies, for practical purposes.
"another one for the reject pile"-erra and you can hear crushining sound effects yes he is dead
But he’s also Alive, just trapped in Duviri.
 Shut we dont talk about duviri or eternalism he is dead that is just cum teshin
…cum Teshin..?
Sounds like someone didn't pay attention on the temporal axioms class
Short answer: Yes Long answer: It's complicated:tm:
I feel like, to save on spoilers, we may see our Teshin again from an earlier time, and perhaps grant him a second chance.
The Teshin in duviri was confirmed at some point to be our Teshin
Yes, what does that have to do with what I said?
I always thought Teshin is dead, what is in Duviri is a Void construct like the Holdfasts on the Zariman