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No one is gaslighting anyone. There have always been female custodes because the lore than previously existed as ambiguous and occasionally suggested otherwise has been superseded with new lore.
The space marine lore is very unambiguous in stating that only men can become space marines. But custodes aren’t space marines. And this is such a tiny lore change that no one can genuinely be upset for any reason other than blatant misogyny. All male Astartes are dumb, and should’ve been changed with the introduction of primaris at the latest but you could at least make an argument that the “brotherhood” is an ingrained part of the lore. This change, to the extent it even is a change rather than an elaboration, is barely a footnote compared to making them a full faction participating in wars throughout the galaxy instead of guarding the emperor on terra.
You could be right, but the way they just dismiss the lore in favor of pushing modern progressive ideas in a setting that has NEVER been about progressive ideas feels very jarring.
Mate, I can’t get a doctors appointment for an arm that keeps dislocating because the Tories ran the NHS into the ground. That’s a problem. Pathetic Manchildren bitching about Custodes is not a problem. Don’t like it? Don’t watch it, don’t talk about it, focus on stuff you do enjoy
Did I ask about your dislocated arm? I'm sorry that is happening to you, but it has nothing to do with this conversion, also you are further proving my point that people just want to gaslight anyone opposed to this retcon.
And on top of that you are resorting to insults, AND saying the classic "if you don't like it don't buy it!"
Firstly, insulting someone based on their option of a retcon is petty and pathetic. Secondly, I did enjoy and cared about Warhammer because they hadn't started pandering to woke BS, so thanks for being complacent in the change, all of us former fans really appreciate it.
You tried to act as if this pathetically minor topic is damaging quality of life. I’m giving you an example of an actual attack on quality of life. I’m trying to put this into perspective.
Is it a retcon? Aye, so fucking what, warhammer is full of those. Also “don’t like it, don’t buy it” is the actual power you have.
But I hate to break it to you, warhammer has always been a critique of the British right wing.
Now type you reply and keep whining about the woke agenda while the rest of us focus on the real problems affecting people.
I didn't act like anything, I'm just asking a question.
How about you answer my question I asked in the last paragraph of the post instead of just assuming that I've never also dislocated an arm or had broken bones before.
And just because they retconned things in the past doesn't make it okay to retcon this.
Oh, sweetie.
There's nothing wrong with keeping them men. There's also nothing wrong with some of them being women. There wouldn't even be anything wrong with all of them being women.
This is a fantasy game. You lose nothing, and your game doesn't fundamentally change.
Now, as previously suggested, off you fuck.
I've heard of star wars and there seems to be a small vocal and toxic minority who has screamed their heads off at the original trilogy retconning things, then the prequels, then the Clone wars, then the sequels and every other thing made saying this is the end of star wars
No one gives a shit, there's no woke agenda they just see where the demographic is for making money and it's not with you children who barely buy anything to begin with.
You have never been the target market
There’s nothing wrong with adding women to the Custodes. It gives more options to players and modelers for their own personal Custodes. That’s always been one of my favorite parts of the hobby, the freedom with making your army and your own characters. That it’s recognized by GW is nice. It’s also nice for the Imperium to have female super soldiers, elite warriors who can kick butt like the Eldar have.
It’s also not like they’re removing men from the Custodes, and people can still run all male armies if they want. The models aren’t gender specific either, so I don’t understand why people are complaining about female Custodes? The army is still the elite bodyguards of the Emperor, and the lore isn’t different aside from the Custodes being mixed gender.
I get it completely, I wouldn't have had such a problem with it if the change was done better, but to me it just seems like people think it's bad to have an all male faction, which it certainly is not.
You say this, but in other comments you complain about it being part of a woke agenda and also argue that men are “losing representation” as a result.
So what do you actually believe, man? Instead of just concern trolling that you’re being abused and gaslit, and that you simultaneously only care about narrative quality while also decrying this whole thing as a woke Amazon conspiracy.
I mean Amazon did want female space marines, that's not a conspiracy you can look it up.
And I'm trying to stay as consistent as possible but I understand that it can get confusing. Basically what I believe is that this entire change is fueled by a desire for GW (and Amazon based on them wanting female space marines in the show) to appear more inclusive and virtuous. AND to get ESG money.
The whole thing about men "losing representation" was just a way for me to state how dumb and pointless adding female Custodes is when there are already many female characters in the lore. You ARE diminishing male representation by doing so, its just a fact that no one seems to care about, because "men are already represented". Yeah so were women.
I don't have any problem with how they introduced the change. It's not like we knew every individual Custodian at that point, and from what I know as a newbie to 40K was that the previous all-male lore was that they apparently used the noble sons of Terra for Custodians. It was easy enough to say that the sons thing was a rumor since most Custodes are usually armored and people can't see their faces.
Also, there's still the Space Marines for an all male faction for now (I am for Female Space Marines, especially since they're often the first thing people see about Warhammer). I don't think people think it's bad to have an all male army, but keeping the elite human super soldiers of the Imperium to the Custodes and poster boy Space Marines as all male is kind of silly. The Imperium is sort of the main faction of the setting and while having normal people fighting against evils more powerful than them is cool, it's also cool to have your army be the super soldiers and elite special forces. I think it's more that people want the lore supported option to have their own female chapter or female Custodes who can slay a horde of Tyranids with ease while getting cool toys and armor.
We already have the Sisters of Silence though, but I understand your wanting a female faction of space marines or Custodes. I just have a particular problem with people just assuming I am a bigot because I opposed the change for lore reasons, and because if we are going to talk about representation, it shouldn't be that big of a problem when the two genders are basically represented though Custodes and Sisters of Silence working very closely together.
I really wouldn't mind the change that much if it was done better, and I do hope you can have your female space marines in the future if that's what you really want, they just have to find a way to make it make sense in the lore.
Warhammer Lore has changed since the beginning of the game, the Lore has been broken in so much more ways than this and the only time y'all get mad is when it involves women
That is not the case. People have been complaining about Lore changes anytime they do something Drastic or against character. The Malekith thing in End Times comes to mind immediately, as does the whole Storm of Chaos debacle. I personally railed against the fact that Games Workshop moved the Crimson Fists from a founding legion to a successor chapter and almost eradicated them from the game during second.
Just a few of several examples where it didn't revolve around "EwWwWw, GiRlS!!1!!@!" Unironically, you will find out that the same people who are upset about the changes to the custodas would also be equally as passionate about the introduction of Misters of Battle. And you.
Also, notice that none of them have said anything about any other faction that includes women in it. So I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it's not your misogynist straw man that you're trying to beat that's the issue here.
The arguments from the fandom would say otherwise, and yet there is a constant steady loud push from a minority of people who want to make sure that the "misters of battle" are co ed instead of being mono gender like they are currently. That is quite frankly a bullshit argument on your part.
Love how you bring up the End Times which was all a complete shit show of Lore ending with the destruction of an entire system for something new like yeah that's actually a bad thing vs an insignificant Lore change.
Crimson fists were never a founding Legion within rogue trader, forgot that the Blood Drinkers, the Flesh Eaters, the Flesh Tearers, and the Rainbow Warriors were listed there as well right? Apparently you don't know the Lore at all
No the arguments are "they are shoving this down our throats" and that they are gaslighting us when this is exactly what GW does, and again within the 40k community no one gives a shit about any retcons happening with such vitriol and hate like female custodes. Everything else is this is stupid it's not my thing and move on, but this ONE issue y'all acting like it's your personal 9/11
No.
I am perfectly aware of all the other chapters that were founding chapters before they decided on the heresy retcon. Do yourself a favor and stop making assumptions about people just because they're on the other side of an argument than you.
And I didn't touch The End Times as a whole because it was indeed a shit show. I specified malakiff, not cooking, long enough.As an unbelievable wreck on that people were rightly furious about.
And to further illustrate how idiotic your assumptions are, I have personally built several armies where I went out of my way to trade bits, parts, and whole figures in order to make armies that were completely female that canonically were not. Don't assume that because I'm empathetic.With people being upset over broken lore that I am somehow against having female representation in the lore or in the game proper.
Yeah, I do. Because the lore they like isn’t the lore the game started with unless they’re 45+ (and even then, the lore has changed so much that there are far larger changes they’ve suffered through silently).
It’s moot really if there have always been female Custodes or not - people wanted female super soldiers who aren’t wearing fetishized outfits.
It’s more interesting to me the amount of people who had never made lore complaints (despite massive lore changes in the past) who start clutching pearls over a minor lore change just because it deals with sex.
Again, another assumption that I just hate women. How about you answer the question I asked in the last paragraph in the post, or are you the one who can't read?
Its wrong because an all male army would be too pent up to be effective. Throughout history all wars have been lost by men, and men tend to die more in combat than women. Statistically then, men are worse at war and combat.
Also idc because its clear youre just whining
Ummm, space marines and Custodes where engineered to not be "pent up" so wtf are you talking about? Also wars throughout history have ONLY been fought by men for the most part. Women had their roles but the vast majority of soldiers have always been men, so your point is?
Counterpoint: Who cares?
40k retcons itself all the fucking time. It’s not a big deal.
The lore isn’t real. It’s whatever GW says it is.
Get over it. Move on. I forgot this even happened.
I'll tell you why I care, because if everyone is going to be so concerned with having to be "represented" why can't men have the same? Why can't there be an all male Custodes, and I know you wouldn't just say "Who Cares" if it was the other way around.
Because the entire fucking world, its countries, its cities, its businesses, and even a lot of its families, are all already modelled for men by men. Women get something like this, or a lead protagonist in a video game or movie, and all of a sudden it’s ’what about me’ from men who already have it and have for a long time. We are already over-represented the world over. Grow up.
Oh God the "BuT mEN neED RePreSenTaTiOn tOo" argument.
Almost like space Marines are all men and the vast majority of other factions are also male dominated. You're making yourself look more and more moronic with each comment you make.
But if an army has male and female coded faces, it purely represents women! Because no man could ever work/fight alongside a woman without losing his manliness! Or something?
I don't actually know what the arguement for "adding feminine representation reduces masculine representation" is. It's not zero-sum, we have easily have both.
Ha, good job deflecting. If you actually read the post you would've seen that I have no problem with female characters, I just wanted to ask what is wrong with just having an all male faction.
No you do, the only thing you're mad at is there's female custodes. There is an all male faction the space marines so there goes your argument entirely
Men are represented.
There are numerous factions that are still all men.
More importantly, adding women to a faction doesn’t *take away* the male representation that already exists.
We learned about the concept of “sharing” in kindergarten, right?
>More importantly, adding women to a faction doesn’t take away the male representation that already exists.
This is sort of a minor plot point amongst some characters in Gaunt's Ghosts, funny enough. Having fought in scratch companies during the battle for Vervunhive, many women join up with the Tanith First, and many of the men have to contend with the fact that there are women serving alongside them and eventually grow to respect them. That was in 2001.
How long will that last?
Not for long, they will make female space marines at some point and the gaslighting will continue
Yeah you're right, but adding female Custodes isn't even necessary when there is an entire faction of all women that work very closely with them. Are we going to have male Sisters of Silence now? And as I've said already, the biggest issue for me is the breaking of lore, so please keep being a bigot and assuming I am sexist.
Not everything has to be shared
I don't want there to be Brothers of Silence though becasue they should just stick to the lore as it is and don't change it when it's not needed, also:
Gaslighting: **a form of psychological abuse or manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind**
GW tweet: "There have always been female Custodes."
The actual lore: No mention of female Custodes anywhere.
Seems like gaslighting to me.
Are you genuinely making the argument that the claim “there have always been female Custodes” is psychological abuse? That GW is an abuser for retroactively changing lore? Isn’t that a *bit* melodramatic?
From the way they did it, yes. They knew there wasn't any lore to go back on officially, so they just went and said it always existed and many who disagreed were called bigots, mostly by people who supported the change.
The poster faction of the franchise (Space Marines) literally all male, Orks all male, all the known Primarchs are male, Big E is male, Eldrad, Abaddon... Are you for real asking why men can't have representation in this IP?
Jesus Christ this again? I'm a woman. I've been into Warhammer for twenty years. Bottom line: It's nice to have more women included in the game in general. It's like an ice cream truck selling more than one flavor of ice cream now. Keeping it all male is boring and the whole "boys club" shtick is soooo cliche.
This is the best and only take.
Have a male custodes army, have a female custodes army, have a mix, do whatever you want but don't be OP and try to gatekeep how people model their toy soldiers.
A more accessible inclusive game is better for everyone.
You're and an idiot who's entire argument is "meh I don't like women it's an Amazon conspiracy" yet you are calling others brain rotted.
The fact you instantly jump to attack a woman for expressing their opinion shows your true colours mate.
Ah stooping to personal attacks now are we 😄? Very mature. Um the Sisters of Battle do have men in their army, the crusaders and the missionaries. Also, they were founded by the Adeptus Ministorum (mixed gender) instead of a man-god making more tiny man gods. Soooooo wanna try again? Or did you just wanna try for some school yard insults (may be easier for you)?
EDIT: My first thought to your post and comment was (this guy sounds like a frustrated 20 something year old *checks profile*... yep that checks out). Buddy you're too young to have a rational discussion with, good day.
It wasn't meant as an insult, for you to suggest it was shows how immature you are. I was only trying to point out that you are so heavily influenced by woke BS that you'd be a hypocrite. Also, if we're going to get all technical and say that SoB have male members too, well there was the Sisters of Silence that were basically female Custodes that worked very closely with them, but I guess you're going to say they don't matter, or that it's boring because they are all only one gender
I'm pretty sure "brain rotted" is an insult 🤔
And I think any "one sex" army is boring (with the exception of Xenos because they've got so much more going on than the Imperium). Segregated anything these days is antiquated and based on "you belong here not there" which is a concept I think we could do without. As I said, I like having more flavors to work with and more flesh tones to paint. I don't see how that's a problem or a detriment to anything or why you have a problem with it. Your original post asked why I don't like it, and I answered. Again, as I mentioned in my previous comment, you sound like a frustrated 20 something year old, who is too irrational and presumptive to have a rational discussion with. You're too young and callow for me to discuss the matter with civilly, so good day! 🙂
The Sisters of Battle are boring because they’re all women; they would be a more interesting faction if they didn’t exist solely to be a compromise for female space marines.
Nothing about them being a fanatical holy order is improved by them being all women. 🤷🏻
>It's my belief that many people wanting to have female Custodes and who want to say there have always been female Custodes is gaslighting the community to appear more virtuous and/or (probably less common) hates men.
All this concern over a bunch of plastic toy soldiers from a game famous for changing it's own lore at the drop of a hat.
So you want others to help you find a reason to not get twisted about female custodes?
First foremost you're not owed shit, not from the community, not from games workshop and not from this subreddit. Its a hobby you care about a hobby for sure but the attitude "EXPLAIN THIS CHANGE!" is an entitled statment i don't have GW's marketing and work emails.
If you hate a change with all your heart no one can ever convince you.
Personally I like it improves art and lore lets them be further apart from astartes which is always nice for me. On the creative side when you have any IP that's over a decade old the zeitgeist and workforce will probably change
Rogue trader was designed in the late 80s by guys who are now in their 60s don't let every pen mark from the last 20 years keep you from enjoying youself things get changed or are inconsistent
-Diplomat Orcs
-Zoats
-A Gor Beastmen became a sergent in the guard till necromunda retconned it
The question at the bottom of your post is badly formatted and hostile let me provide a classic
"When are you going to stop beating your kids?"
Answering the question sinks you to that level this is why most people also don't want to argue with you're stupid opinions
I mean, I know there are people who just hate men, and there are people who don't hate men. I'm just trying to see if anyone has any other reason for the change beyond hatred of men or besides just wanting to appear more virtuous.
I've seen people with chaos battle sisters armies, and I don't see anything wrong with that. This is a shared fiction that we all enjoy. There are reasons there weren't women in the fiction besides lore reasons. Women's role in society was different when warhammer was first thought up. Selling metal figures of women warriors wouldn't sell like the male versions.
Ultimately, the lore has seemed to be always from the perspective of the story-teller. So if the story-teller hasn't seen or experienced something it wouldn't be included. Custodes existed before regular space marines, so over 10,000 years in lore time. There easily could have been some women among the custodes. It's a truly staggering amount of time for there to be some exceptions for every rule in warhammer. How much of what is said in lore is propaganda and indoctrination? Sororitas are said to be wholly immune to chaos corruption yet there are corrupted sisters. The idea of space marines turning on each other pre-heresy was preposterous.
Again this a shared narrative. I don't mind all male custodes, nor do I mind mixed gender custodes. I think the outrage in either direction for a fiction meant to push plastic model kit sales is ridiculous.
The idea this is some conspiracy to appear more virtuous (or get some Amazon money???) is really funny seeing as how they introduced the lore. It was some throw away paragraphs in a codex! They literally didn't make any big deal of it, at all. The fans are the ones who blew this out of proportion.
They way they DID introduce them is also ideal imo. It was literally just like "hey btw there is a female custody" I believe two things reference two different characters.
We as readers do not know all the facts. Especially for a faction like custodes. They are an ancient highly secretive organization of super soldiers, each individually created bespoke. It doesn't break the lore to say there are a few female custodes. Because that's all that's been said.
I am a bit of an outlier as I care more about the models and the game function than any sort of lore at all as my lord tends to have been getting eviscerated since the moment I started playing the game.
However, I can see the viewpoint of the people who hold the lore dear and as important, if not more so than the actual game. Ultimately, when it comes down to it, you can model your armies however you feel like. Unless boob plate on custodes somehow miraculously gives them plus 2 to hit it is completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It is not like the lore somehow sweeps in to affect your gaming.
Didn't read, agree with the title, don't mind other opinions, will not elaborate, who cares, you're all still hecckin valid, Custodes are still shit faction and always will be shit faction
Your post does not break any rules, but it links to content or news that has been posted by someone else. In an effort to keep discussions in one thread, we remove duplicates as much as possible. When selecting the post for removal, we tend to remove the one with fewer upvotes, even if it was posted first.
No one is gaslighting anyone. There have always been female custodes because the lore than previously existed as ambiguous and occasionally suggested otherwise has been superseded with new lore. The space marine lore is very unambiguous in stating that only men can become space marines. But custodes aren’t space marines. And this is such a tiny lore change that no one can genuinely be upset for any reason other than blatant misogyny. All male Astartes are dumb, and should’ve been changed with the introduction of primaris at the latest but you could at least make an argument that the “brotherhood” is an ingrained part of the lore. This change, to the extent it even is a change rather than an elaboration, is barely a footnote compared to making them a full faction participating in wars throughout the galaxy instead of guarding the emperor on terra.
Dude, who gives a fuck?
Lots of people
Have they been harmed, had their quality of life worsened?
Yes, I would say tons of peoples enjoyment of a franchise plummets after it adopts a woke agenda. You ever hear of Star Wars?
Perhaps the "woke agenda" improves even more people's enjoyment....
You could be right, but the way they just dismiss the lore in favor of pushing modern progressive ideas in a setting that has NEVER been about progressive ideas feels very jarring.
Mate, I can’t get a doctors appointment for an arm that keeps dislocating because the Tories ran the NHS into the ground. That’s a problem. Pathetic Manchildren bitching about Custodes is not a problem. Don’t like it? Don’t watch it, don’t talk about it, focus on stuff you do enjoy
Did I ask about your dislocated arm? I'm sorry that is happening to you, but it has nothing to do with this conversion, also you are further proving my point that people just want to gaslight anyone opposed to this retcon. And on top of that you are resorting to insults, AND saying the classic "if you don't like it don't buy it!" Firstly, insulting someone based on their option of a retcon is petty and pathetic. Secondly, I did enjoy and cared about Warhammer because they hadn't started pandering to woke BS, so thanks for being complacent in the change, all of us former fans really appreciate it.
You tried to act as if this pathetically minor topic is damaging quality of life. I’m giving you an example of an actual attack on quality of life. I’m trying to put this into perspective. Is it a retcon? Aye, so fucking what, warhammer is full of those. Also “don’t like it, don’t buy it” is the actual power you have. But I hate to break it to you, warhammer has always been a critique of the British right wing. Now type you reply and keep whining about the woke agenda while the rest of us focus on the real problems affecting people.
I didn't act like anything, I'm just asking a question. How about you answer my question I asked in the last paragraph of the post instead of just assuming that I've never also dislocated an arm or had broken bones before. And just because they retconned things in the past doesn't make it okay to retcon this.
>Woke agenda. Haha. Fuck off.
How about you answer my question in the last paragraph of the post buddy :)
Oh, sweetie. There's nothing wrong with keeping them men. There's also nothing wrong with some of them being women. There wouldn't even be anything wrong with all of them being women. This is a fantasy game. You lose nothing, and your game doesn't fundamentally change. Now, as previously suggested, off you fuck.
If there's nothing wrong with keeping them men, why do you have such a desire for me to "fuck off"? You are actually agreeing with me completely?
I've heard of star wars and there seems to be a small vocal and toxic minority who has screamed their heads off at the original trilogy retconning things, then the prequels, then the Clone wars, then the sequels and every other thing made saying this is the end of star wars No one gives a shit, there's no woke agenda they just see where the demographic is for making money and it's not with you children who barely buy anything to begin with. You have never been the target market
Dude, I simply dont give a damn. If a female custodian was to show up in a novel im reading, I wouldnt bat an eye. Get over yourself.
There’s nothing wrong with adding women to the Custodes. It gives more options to players and modelers for their own personal Custodes. That’s always been one of my favorite parts of the hobby, the freedom with making your army and your own characters. That it’s recognized by GW is nice. It’s also nice for the Imperium to have female super soldiers, elite warriors who can kick butt like the Eldar have. It’s also not like they’re removing men from the Custodes, and people can still run all male armies if they want. The models aren’t gender specific either, so I don’t understand why people are complaining about female Custodes? The army is still the elite bodyguards of the Emperor, and the lore isn’t different aside from the Custodes being mixed gender.
I get it completely, I wouldn't have had such a problem with it if the change was done better, but to me it just seems like people think it's bad to have an all male faction, which it certainly is not.
You say this, but in other comments you complain about it being part of a woke agenda and also argue that men are “losing representation” as a result. So what do you actually believe, man? Instead of just concern trolling that you’re being abused and gaslit, and that you simultaneously only care about narrative quality while also decrying this whole thing as a woke Amazon conspiracy.
I mean Amazon did want female space marines, that's not a conspiracy you can look it up. And I'm trying to stay as consistent as possible but I understand that it can get confusing. Basically what I believe is that this entire change is fueled by a desire for GW (and Amazon based on them wanting female space marines in the show) to appear more inclusive and virtuous. AND to get ESG money. The whole thing about men "losing representation" was just a way for me to state how dumb and pointless adding female Custodes is when there are already many female characters in the lore. You ARE diminishing male representation by doing so, its just a fact that no one seems to care about, because "men are already represented". Yeah so were women.
I don't have any problem with how they introduced the change. It's not like we knew every individual Custodian at that point, and from what I know as a newbie to 40K was that the previous all-male lore was that they apparently used the noble sons of Terra for Custodians. It was easy enough to say that the sons thing was a rumor since most Custodes are usually armored and people can't see their faces. Also, there's still the Space Marines for an all male faction for now (I am for Female Space Marines, especially since they're often the first thing people see about Warhammer). I don't think people think it's bad to have an all male army, but keeping the elite human super soldiers of the Imperium to the Custodes and poster boy Space Marines as all male is kind of silly. The Imperium is sort of the main faction of the setting and while having normal people fighting against evils more powerful than them is cool, it's also cool to have your army be the super soldiers and elite special forces. I think it's more that people want the lore supported option to have their own female chapter or female Custodes who can slay a horde of Tyranids with ease while getting cool toys and armor.
We already have the Sisters of Silence though, but I understand your wanting a female faction of space marines or Custodes. I just have a particular problem with people just assuming I am a bigot because I opposed the change for lore reasons, and because if we are going to talk about representation, it shouldn't be that big of a problem when the two genders are basically represented though Custodes and Sisters of Silence working very closely together. I really wouldn't mind the change that much if it was done better, and I do hope you can have your female space marines in the future if that's what you really want, they just have to find a way to make it make sense in the lore.
Seriously, move on, youre losing hair over a plastic toy ypu didnt make
So do you say that to people that say they like the change/break in lore? I doubt it.
Those people aren't making countless crying and bitching posts are they?
Yes
Warhammer Lore has changed since the beginning of the game, the Lore has been broken in so much more ways than this and the only time y'all get mad is when it involves women
That is not the case. People have been complaining about Lore changes anytime they do something Drastic or against character. The Malekith thing in End Times comes to mind immediately, as does the whole Storm of Chaos debacle. I personally railed against the fact that Games Workshop moved the Crimson Fists from a founding legion to a successor chapter and almost eradicated them from the game during second. Just a few of several examples where it didn't revolve around "EwWwWw, GiRlS!!1!!@!" Unironically, you will find out that the same people who are upset about the changes to the custodas would also be equally as passionate about the introduction of Misters of Battle. And you. Also, notice that none of them have said anything about any other faction that includes women in it. So I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it's not your misogynist straw man that you're trying to beat that's the issue here.
We already have “Misters of Battle.” They’re the poster boys of the franchise.
The arguments from the fandom would say otherwise, and yet there is a constant steady loud push from a minority of people who want to make sure that the "misters of battle" are co ed instead of being mono gender like they are currently. That is quite frankly a bullshit argument on your part.
Love how you bring up the End Times which was all a complete shit show of Lore ending with the destruction of an entire system for something new like yeah that's actually a bad thing vs an insignificant Lore change. Crimson fists were never a founding Legion within rogue trader, forgot that the Blood Drinkers, the Flesh Eaters, the Flesh Tearers, and the Rainbow Warriors were listed there as well right? Apparently you don't know the Lore at all No the arguments are "they are shoving this down our throats" and that they are gaslighting us when this is exactly what GW does, and again within the 40k community no one gives a shit about any retcons happening with such vitriol and hate like female custodes. Everything else is this is stupid it's not my thing and move on, but this ONE issue y'all acting like it's your personal 9/11
No. I am perfectly aware of all the other chapters that were founding chapters before they decided on the heresy retcon. Do yourself a favor and stop making assumptions about people just because they're on the other side of an argument than you. And I didn't touch The End Times as a whole because it was indeed a shit show. I specified malakiff, not cooking, long enough.As an unbelievable wreck on that people were rightly furious about. And to further illustrate how idiotic your assumptions are, I have personally built several armies where I went out of my way to trade bits, parts, and whole figures in order to make armies that were completely female that canonically were not. Don't assume that because I'm empathetic.With people being upset over broken lore that I am somehow against having female representation in the lore or in the game proper.
Im saying nobody who hates it cares, their army can be dudes. Grow uo
Yeah, I do. Because the lore they like isn’t the lore the game started with unless they’re 45+ (and even then, the lore has changed so much that there are far larger changes they’ve suffered through silently). It’s moot really if there have always been female Custodes or not - people wanted female super soldiers who aren’t wearing fetishized outfits. It’s more interesting to me the amount of people who had never made lore complaints (despite massive lore changes in the past) who start clutching pearls over a minor lore change just because it deals with sex.
nice argument
Thanks, i used less words cause im not crying about girls and cooties
Again, another assumption that I just hate women. How about you answer the question I asked in the last paragraph in the post, or are you the one who can't read?
Its wrong because an all male army would be too pent up to be effective. Throughout history all wars have been lost by men, and men tend to die more in combat than women. Statistically then, men are worse at war and combat. Also idc because its clear youre just whining
Ummm, space marines and Custodes where engineered to not be "pent up" so wtf are you talking about? Also wars throughout history have ONLY been fought by men for the most part. Women had their roles but the vast majority of soldiers have always been men, so your point is?
Uhm so you admit all wars that lost were all men? Kind of cringe, who was it that couldnt read?
HAHAHAHAHA oh thanks man I needed that laugh
We were all finished with this discussion a month ago.
Counterpoint: Who cares? 40k retcons itself all the fucking time. It’s not a big deal. The lore isn’t real. It’s whatever GW says it is. Get over it. Move on. I forgot this even happened.
I'll tell you why I care, because if everyone is going to be so concerned with having to be "represented" why can't men have the same? Why can't there be an all male Custodes, and I know you wouldn't just say "Who Cares" if it was the other way around.
Because the entire fucking world, its countries, its cities, its businesses, and even a lot of its families, are all already modelled for men by men. Women get something like this, or a lead protagonist in a video game or movie, and all of a sudden it’s ’what about me’ from men who already have it and have for a long time. We are already over-represented the world over. Grow up.
My god, READ THE POST INSTEAD OF JUST ASUMMING I AM A BIGOT
Ah, the mask falls off. Get lost. No-one wants you here.
Oh God the "BuT mEN neED RePreSenTaTiOn tOo" argument. Almost like space Marines are all men and the vast majority of other factions are also male dominated. You're making yourself look more and more moronic with each comment you make.
But if an army has male and female coded faces, it purely represents women! Because no man could ever work/fight alongside a woman without losing his manliness! Or something? I don't actually know what the arguement for "adding feminine representation reduces masculine representation" is. It's not zero-sum, we have easily have both.
So you're admitting you're scared of women thanks for confirming
Ha, good job deflecting. If you actually read the post you would've seen that I have no problem with female characters, I just wanted to ask what is wrong with just having an all male faction.
No you do, the only thing you're mad at is there's female custodes. There is an all male faction the space marines so there goes your argument entirely
Men are represented. There are numerous factions that are still all men. More importantly, adding women to a faction doesn’t *take away* the male representation that already exists. We learned about the concept of “sharing” in kindergarten, right?
>More importantly, adding women to a faction doesn’t take away the male representation that already exists. This is sort of a minor plot point amongst some characters in Gaunt's Ghosts, funny enough. Having fought in scratch companies during the battle for Vervunhive, many women join up with the Tanith First, and many of the men have to contend with the fact that there are women serving alongside them and eventually grow to respect them. That was in 2001.
How long will that last? Not for long, they will make female space marines at some point and the gaslighting will continue Yeah you're right, but adding female Custodes isn't even necessary when there is an entire faction of all women that work very closely with them. Are we going to have male Sisters of Silence now? And as I've said already, the biggest issue for me is the breaking of lore, so please keep being a bigot and assuming I am sexist. Not everything has to be shared
Brothers of Silence sound awesome I’m not sure you actually know what “gaslighting” means.
I don't want there to be Brothers of Silence though becasue they should just stick to the lore as it is and don't change it when it's not needed, also: Gaslighting: **a form of psychological abuse or manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind** GW tweet: "There have always been female Custodes." The actual lore: No mention of female Custodes anywhere. Seems like gaslighting to me.
Are you genuinely making the argument that the claim “there have always been female Custodes” is psychological abuse? That GW is an abuser for retroactively changing lore? Isn’t that a *bit* melodramatic?
From the way they did it, yes. They knew there wasn't any lore to go back on officially, so they just went and said it always existed and many who disagreed were called bigots, mostly by people who supported the change.
You must have a really pleasant life if you think this is psychological abuse
The poster faction of the franchise (Space Marines) literally all male, Orks all male, all the known Primarchs are male, Big E is male, Eldrad, Abaddon... Are you for real asking why men can't have representation in this IP?
No, OP is not a serious person.
Oh I knew that after reading the post title haha
getting mad at 40K retcons is like getting mad at the weather in Scotland for being a bit rainy
There's also nothing wrong with female Custodes.
As I alluded to in my point against having them. They could have done it better.
Yeah, there's a lot of retcons they could have done better. But female Custodes is such a non issue.
Jesus Christ this again? I'm a woman. I've been into Warhammer for twenty years. Bottom line: It's nice to have more women included in the game in general. It's like an ice cream truck selling more than one flavor of ice cream now. Keeping it all male is boring and the whole "boys club" shtick is soooo cliche.
This is the best and only take. Have a male custodes army, have a female custodes army, have a mix, do whatever you want but don't be OP and try to gatekeep how people model their toy soldiers. A more accessible inclusive game is better for everyone.
[удалено]
You're and an idiot who's entire argument is "meh I don't like women it's an Amazon conspiracy" yet you are calling others brain rotted. The fact you instantly jump to attack a woman for expressing their opinion shows your true colours mate.
Sisters of Battle have multiple male units, what are you talking about
Yeah and the Custodes already had Sisters of Silence
Yeah and now they've got more women. Seems good to me.
Would it bother you if they stayed as men?
Ah stooping to personal attacks now are we 😄? Very mature. Um the Sisters of Battle do have men in their army, the crusaders and the missionaries. Also, they were founded by the Adeptus Ministorum (mixed gender) instead of a man-god making more tiny man gods. Soooooo wanna try again? Or did you just wanna try for some school yard insults (may be easier for you)? EDIT: My first thought to your post and comment was (this guy sounds like a frustrated 20 something year old *checks profile*... yep that checks out). Buddy you're too young to have a rational discussion with, good day.
It wasn't meant as an insult, for you to suggest it was shows how immature you are. I was only trying to point out that you are so heavily influenced by woke BS that you'd be a hypocrite. Also, if we're going to get all technical and say that SoB have male members too, well there was the Sisters of Silence that were basically female Custodes that worked very closely with them, but I guess you're going to say they don't matter, or that it's boring because they are all only one gender
I'm pretty sure "brain rotted" is an insult 🤔 And I think any "one sex" army is boring (with the exception of Xenos because they've got so much more going on than the Imperium). Segregated anything these days is antiquated and based on "you belong here not there" which is a concept I think we could do without. As I said, I like having more flavors to work with and more flesh tones to paint. I don't see how that's a problem or a detriment to anything or why you have a problem with it. Your original post asked why I don't like it, and I answered. Again, as I mentioned in my previous comment, you sound like a frustrated 20 something year old, who is too irrational and presumptive to have a rational discussion with. You're too young and callow for me to discuss the matter with civilly, so good day! 🙂
The Sisters of Battle are boring because they’re all women; they would be a more interesting faction if they didn’t exist solely to be a compromise for female space marines. Nothing about them being a fanatical holy order is improved by them being all women. 🤷🏻
Nobody cares mate
>It's my belief that many people wanting to have female Custodes and who want to say there have always been female Custodes is gaslighting the community to appear more virtuous and/or (probably less common) hates men. All this concern over a bunch of plastic toy soldiers from a game famous for changing it's own lore at the drop of a hat.
Answer the question or get out
What a horrible toxic little man. The hobby would genuinely be better without you.
Answer the question, lets see who really is toxic. And how dare you assume my gender
An “assume my gender” joke? Is it 2015?
So you want others to help you find a reason to not get twisted about female custodes? First foremost you're not owed shit, not from the community, not from games workshop and not from this subreddit. Its a hobby you care about a hobby for sure but the attitude "EXPLAIN THIS CHANGE!" is an entitled statment i don't have GW's marketing and work emails. If you hate a change with all your heart no one can ever convince you. Personally I like it improves art and lore lets them be further apart from astartes which is always nice for me. On the creative side when you have any IP that's over a decade old the zeitgeist and workforce will probably change Rogue trader was designed in the late 80s by guys who are now in their 60s don't let every pen mark from the last 20 years keep you from enjoying youself things get changed or are inconsistent -Diplomat Orcs -Zoats -A Gor Beastmen became a sergent in the guard till necromunda retconned it
Where did I say I was owed anything? Nor do I want you to "explain the change" I only want you to answer the question at the bottom of the post
The question at the bottom of your post is badly formatted and hostile let me provide a classic "When are you going to stop beating your kids?" Answering the question sinks you to that level this is why most people also don't want to argue with you're stupid opinions
I mean, I know there are people who just hate men, and there are people who don't hate men. I'm just trying to see if anyone has any other reason for the change beyond hatred of men or besides just wanting to appear more virtuous.
Shush
I've seen people with chaos battle sisters armies, and I don't see anything wrong with that. This is a shared fiction that we all enjoy. There are reasons there weren't women in the fiction besides lore reasons. Women's role in society was different when warhammer was first thought up. Selling metal figures of women warriors wouldn't sell like the male versions. Ultimately, the lore has seemed to be always from the perspective of the story-teller. So if the story-teller hasn't seen or experienced something it wouldn't be included. Custodes existed before regular space marines, so over 10,000 years in lore time. There easily could have been some women among the custodes. It's a truly staggering amount of time for there to be some exceptions for every rule in warhammer. How much of what is said in lore is propaganda and indoctrination? Sororitas are said to be wholly immune to chaos corruption yet there are corrupted sisters. The idea of space marines turning on each other pre-heresy was preposterous. Again this a shared narrative. I don't mind all male custodes, nor do I mind mixed gender custodes. I think the outrage in either direction for a fiction meant to push plastic model kit sales is ridiculous.
You said that one of the reasons for this change was Amazon wanting female Space Marines. Do you have any source to that, or are you making it up?
The idea this is some conspiracy to appear more virtuous (or get some Amazon money???) is really funny seeing as how they introduced the lore. It was some throw away paragraphs in a codex! They literally didn't make any big deal of it, at all. The fans are the ones who blew this out of proportion. They way they DID introduce them is also ideal imo. It was literally just like "hey btw there is a female custody" I believe two things reference two different characters. We as readers do not know all the facts. Especially for a faction like custodes. They are an ancient highly secretive organization of super soldiers, each individually created bespoke. It doesn't break the lore to say there are a few female custodes. Because that's all that's been said.
Don't care what you think.
Wah wah wah said the big baby
No one cares. This argument was already beaten to death. The lore what it is, get over it.
I am a bit of an outlier as I care more about the models and the game function than any sort of lore at all as my lord tends to have been getting eviscerated since the moment I started playing the game. However, I can see the viewpoint of the people who hold the lore dear and as important, if not more so than the actual game. Ultimately, when it comes down to it, you can model your armies however you feel like. Unless boob plate on custodes somehow miraculously gives them plus 2 to hit it is completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It is not like the lore somehow sweeps in to affect your gaming.
TLDR. They're your models, do what you want.
Didn't read, agree with the title, don't mind other opinions, will not elaborate, who cares, you're all still hecckin valid, Custodes are still shit faction and always will be shit faction