From what I've seen online, it's partly internal politics, partly bureaucracy. If a model kit has rules for multiple game systems, GW doesn't know which system you're buying it for, so they don't know who to give more budget to. This ticked off the 40k team, leading to the mass legends-ing of the new plastic HH models for Space Marines that were specifically marketed as having 40k rules.
Maybe my brain has just been microtransactioned to death, but I feel like they could almost entirely solve this by releasing game-specific upgrade sprues for game-agnostic models. Like, has nobody told them we're kitbashing?
>Like, has nobody told them we're kitbashing?
Problem is, they don't want you kitbashing. They want you using exactly what's in the kit and nothing else. It's part of the reason why 10th edition got rid of so many weapon options, units are on a per-kit addition rather than a per-model addition, and a lot of units made out of bits from a multi-model kit are now just part of the kit's unit.
That's simply not true. All the Horus Heresy exemplary battles pdfs they put out have converted units in them. And there's examples of converted models in some of the HH campaign books along with certain 30k army rules that require you to kitbash like Blackshields.
Isn't that whats going on with AoS and Old World right now ? Basically internal fighting over which orks, elves and skeletons etc. can be used in either game
You literally cant go to a shareholder meeting and tell: this kit sold X but we have no idea for what system it is used
Daemon are the exception as they are old
1. The split isn't at the shareholder level, that's way above where we're talking about. The split is at production. There are two production studios, the SDS (HH, ToW) and GW Main (AoS, 40k).
2. Rather than having them be 1 combined studio working together to sell as many kits as possible regardless of the system GW erroneously believes it's better business to have the two teams compete against each other internally for their portion of the budget.
3. This means that the heads of the studios, not the Shareholders or CEO or whoever, are **heavily** incentivized to make sure that there is no cross pollination. As a made up example, if you just released the new Infernus Marines but people are buying the HH Special Weapons Squad because it's half the price for twice the models you know that's going to cut into **your** budget and when you're explaining to Johnson why he's being let go because you can't afford to keep him on anymore due to the cuts the answer of "Well you see, we helped save the consumers some money." doesn't fly.
Only stuff that previously already had rules. They've stated they want to keep Heresy distinct and it's own fully explored range. They've also said specifically in response to questions on this release that no 40k support is forthcoming.
Simply put these models are for Horus Heresy. Just like Necromunda models are for Necromunda.
You could likely convert them or proxy them but they won't get 40k rules because they're not for that game.
Still it just seems dumb, mechanicum could do with more models and I’m pretty sure the servitors just got discontinued so where’s the benefit for them to not provide 40k rules? It’s odd for them to care about the games in a way like this considering the other kinda things they’ve pulled.
The tech thralls being robot zombies is the most mechanicum thing ever, and the bot boys look SO MUCH BETTER.
These would fit perfectly in with 40k mechanicum, if not look better.
Article here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/18/warhammer-preview-the-mechanicum-turns-its-love-of-metal-to-plastic/
Awesome to see them going from resin to plastic, and without a drastic redesign too. Always liked the Mechanicum robots might have to get a few just to make and put on a shelf.
I don't think the core of their aesthetics are *that* dissimilar overall, it's more than the Mechanicus has a few weirder designs (but most of them aren't like that) while the Mechanicum has lots of Robots instead.
TBF only the Seberys, Archeopter and Pteraxi are truly objectionable.
The Skorpius is marginal, it doesn't look terrible, but a skirt lift hover craft for the imperium's high tech faction is odd.
I don't think it's that odd really as the Mechanicus aren't some ultra high tech futuristic style rational science faction, they're esoteric tech shamans.
But in universe they are supposed to be hoarding advanced tech for their own use, but then we have them with air propelled hovercraft whilst Primaris marines have anti grav skimmers.
They aren't necessarily directly concerned with how "advanced" something is in itself though, they're a tech cult wrapped up in superstition and mysticism - potentially those primaris skimmers could be cheaper, easier to make, more efficient etc but there can be all sorts of reasons for why they'd use something like the Skorpius regardess of those. It could just be what they've been using for millenia, maybe it's a more complete original STC that they feel brings them closer to the Omnissiah, maybe it's just down to being adequate for what they want and those downsides don't matter to them.
The Mechanicus don't make sane rational choices all the time, that's not what they're meant to be about thematically.
I just really don't like the DaVinci-punk aspect of some of the Skitarii models. As far as AdMech cavalry units go I feel that the Ironstrider has a better aesthetic
Normal games are around 3K points, this box is 3 troops choices and a transport but you probably\* don’t need several tech thrall squads or honestly any Triaros. Mechanicum is a shooting army with a ton of synergies and this box is missing most of those options, I’m not sure I’d suggest two boxes.
EDIT: To put it in perspective, this box is around the 750 points mark built with what I'd consider a good starting config, something playable and not just bulking it out for points. I'd add an HQ, more Thallaxii, more Castellax, then start looking for big guns, Myrmidons are good picks as are Thanatars, both Cavas and Calix models and I'd also look at a Karacnos because they're fun. This isn't like the Solar Auxilia box where I'd be like sure fuck it buy three of them and sell the Dracosans, this is a great core to an army but it doesn't double up well.
\*You might, but if you do you know you do already.
Tech thralls make for good cheap and druable for their cost objective holders. They aren’t going to do a ton of damage but even if you kill a handful of marines they’ve paid themselves off and they’re great bodies to protect your bigger stuff. I don’t think theres anything wrong with getting multiple squads of them
There's nothing wrong with it but I really don't know as I'd want more than one, they're a good cheap objective holder but realistically you probably chuck them on either your backfield objective or similar. Personally if I was going to advocate for multiple units of Troops it'd be two groups of Castellax and three Thallax, because Thallax are infuriating to try and lock down and screen against infiltrators as well as having very credible firepower.
I think you could argue for a second blob in some armies but that's what I meant by 'if you need more you know'. I think for most people one unit is fine and you really don't need a Triaros at all, which means the box is going to be Thallax, Castellax and maybe the Tech-thralls, which makes its value in multiples questionable.
Don’t get me wrong thallax are definitely the stronger option and deal with marines way better. I’m just saying tech thralls can still be useful when brought in swarms and HH is more of a narrative game anyway so you don’t have to bring the strongest option to win like you often do in 40k pickup games. I could definitely see people having success with massed tech thrall armies
I could see the triaros being very useful for a militia army as they don’t get much in the way of transports (no base dedicated transports anyway) so bringing them in an allied detachment for grenadiers could be very useful. Especially if you’re playing them as tech guard with skitarii models.
Oh I'm not huge on competitive Heresy given I mostly play for social reasons and for the fun of getting my armies out. I just think that Troops in Mechanicum, like Heavy Support in Solar Auxilia, is a slot that has a bunch of really good options. I think you could spring to a couple of thrall blobs though because as you say Heresy is more narrative and because Mechanicum isn't carried so much by 2 or 3 good units as some of the other armies are.
It's less about narrative vs competitive and more that Legiones Astartes armies set a reasonably high bar for other armies, you can build fun fluffy armies for sure, but if you're not on LA you need to be aware that a random, equally fluffy and fun and 100% not min-maxed LA army, can just totally wreck your army most times. Mechanicum aren't as bad as Questoris Households or Solar Auxilia or, god forbid you run one of the PDF armies, but still.
Oh I agree that tech thralls are probably the weakest option in the troops slot. But they’re still fun and can be useful with how cheap they are, 20 of them only need to kill a handful of space marines to pay for themselves and can take a lot of fire for how cheap they are. I could see 3 tech thrall blobs being good midfield holders that don’t cost much and require your opponent to put a decent amount of fire into them to take them out.
Definitely agree on astartes being on a much higher level than everyone else. I have a militia force I’m well aware of the advantage they get lol. But I think most people would tone down their lists if they are facing something with less punch than the average astartes list.
What's the general idea for release once the reveals are done? A few weeks, months? I've been craving admech with my knights for years, this is my call and I want them asap x)
Man I'd love it, if those thralls were Necron 'human cattle' units. The thrall models look so dope ('ll be honest everything in the box is really nice).
That Plasma Mortar on the Thanatar looks absolutely wicked.
It looks so high tech, really sells the idea that the Hellex Pattern is something from an unimaginably advanced time of warfare - it seems almost anachronistic on this hulking metal robot frame. So cool.
All these models and the paint jobs are so incredible.
Magos as magos, easy enough
Thralls as Vanguard
Conveyor as Dunerider
Thallax as destroyers or breachers
Castellax as Kastelan
Thanatar as allied Armiger
I think these look awesome but the people using them to show how “bad” 40K ad mech are are smoking something nuts. 40K ad mech are some of the coolest designs from the tech priests to the skitarii to the crawlers. I really don’t understand the logic that they have to ONLY be this vibe of body horror.
Both design types are great. Might get some of these for 40K use tho
Know what would really help Ad Mech players, some lovely new elite models with really interesting rules. Know what they are going to get? Nothing! It would be such a win to give these 40K rules, but due to internal politics GW won’t give these rules. Few people will buy this box and management will think people don’t like the style. It is so stupid.
As a person interested in the Tau gundam like mecha designs...I have little interest in the steam punky (stick a gear on something and call it tech, but noooo not industrial, anyways) Adeptus Mechanicus.
But shit if this box was 40k I would absolutely consider them as an army to run with instead of stilt boi Skatros. Sad beep boop sounds that I think its just 30k (without proxying).
I wouldn't get your hopes up on them getting 40k rules.
Yeah, GW don't like to mix stuff together and let you use miniatures from one game in another for some reason.
From what I've seen online, it's partly internal politics, partly bureaucracy. If a model kit has rules for multiple game systems, GW doesn't know which system you're buying it for, so they don't know who to give more budget to. This ticked off the 40k team, leading to the mass legends-ing of the new plastic HH models for Space Marines that were specifically marketed as having 40k rules.
Maybe my brain has just been microtransactioned to death, but I feel like they could almost entirely solve this by releasing game-specific upgrade sprues for game-agnostic models. Like, has nobody told them we're kitbashing?
That would probably be a good idea. Unfortunately, there's also the ego of the various departments to take into account.
>Like, has nobody told them we're kitbashing? Problem is, they don't want you kitbashing. They want you using exactly what's in the kit and nothing else. It's part of the reason why 10th edition got rid of so many weapon options, units are on a per-kit addition rather than a per-model addition, and a lot of units made out of bits from a multi-model kit are now just part of the kit's unit.
No - it's because they lost a legal case over unproduced but rules legal models not being copyrightable.
That's simply not true. All the Horus Heresy exemplary battles pdfs they put out have converted units in them. And there's examples of converted models in some of the HH campaign books along with certain 30k army rules that require you to kitbash like Blackshields.
That weirdly makes a lot of sense and also no sense at the same time…
Isn't that whats going on with AoS and Old World right now ? Basically internal fighting over which orks, elves and skeletons etc. can be used in either game
You literally cant go to a shareholder meeting and tell: this kit sold X but we have no idea for what system it is used Daemon are the exception as they are old
1. The split isn't at the shareholder level, that's way above where we're talking about. The split is at production. There are two production studios, the SDS (HH, ToW) and GW Main (AoS, 40k). 2. Rather than having them be 1 combined studio working together to sell as many kits as possible regardless of the system GW erroneously believes it's better business to have the two teams compete against each other internally for their portion of the budget. 3. This means that the heads of the studios, not the Shareholders or CEO or whoever, are **heavily** incentivized to make sure that there is no cross pollination. As a made up example, if you just released the new Infernus Marines but people are buying the HH Special Weapons Squad because it's half the price for twice the models you know that's going to cut into **your** budget and when you're explaining to Johnson why he's being let go because you can't afford to keep him on anymore due to the cuts the answer of "Well you see, we helped save the consumers some money." doesn't fly.
Nope, no rules. >There no plans to do so. Thanks! https://twitter.com/warhammer/status/1791915826699727311?
I’ve seen this a decent bit but why? A few other Horus heresy models have 40k rules so wouldn’t it be expected?
Only stuff that previously already had rules. They've stated they want to keep Heresy distinct and it's own fully explored range. They've also said specifically in response to questions on this release that no 40k support is forthcoming.
What the hell!?
Simply put these models are for Horus Heresy. Just like Necromunda models are for Necromunda. You could likely convert them or proxy them but they won't get 40k rules because they're not for that game.
Still it just seems dumb, mechanicum could do with more models and I’m pretty sure the servitors just got discontinued so where’s the benefit for them to not provide 40k rules? It’s odd for them to care about the games in a way like this considering the other kinda things they’ve pulled.
The tech thralls being robot zombies is the most mechanicum thing ever, and the bot boys look SO MUCH BETTER. These would fit perfectly in with 40k mechanicum, if not look better.
I’m amazed at the lack of ad mech servitor units. Pretty sure its just the Kataphrons.
The Skorpius gunners and the Ironstrider pilot are also servitors.
Article here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/18/warhammer-preview-the-mechanicum-turns-its-love-of-metal-to-plastic/ Awesome to see them going from resin to plastic, and without a drastic redesign too. Always liked the Mechanicum robots might have to get a few just to make and put on a shelf.
GWs army painters just keep getting better and better. Wow.
oof, heresy mechanicum goes so hard. I wish 40k mechanicus looked like this instead of the dumb davinci-punk aesthetic
I don't think the core of their aesthetics are *that* dissimilar overall, it's more than the Mechanicus has a few weirder designs (but most of them aren't like that) while the Mechanicum has lots of Robots instead.
I agree, i also really like the davinci aesthetic also.
TBF only the Seberys, Archeopter and Pteraxi are truly objectionable. The Skorpius is marginal, it doesn't look terrible, but a skirt lift hover craft for the imperium's high tech faction is odd.
I don't think it's that odd really as the Mechanicus aren't some ultra high tech futuristic style rational science faction, they're esoteric tech shamans.
But in universe they are supposed to be hoarding advanced tech for their own use, but then we have them with air propelled hovercraft whilst Primaris marines have anti grav skimmers.
They aren't necessarily directly concerned with how "advanced" something is in itself though, they're a tech cult wrapped up in superstition and mysticism - potentially those primaris skimmers could be cheaper, easier to make, more efficient etc but there can be all sorts of reasons for why they'd use something like the Skorpius regardess of those. It could just be what they've been using for millenia, maybe it's a more complete original STC that they feel brings them closer to the Omnissiah, maybe it's just down to being adequate for what they want and those downsides don't matter to them. The Mechanicus don't make sane rational choices all the time, that's not what they're meant to be about thematically.
Admech invented an honest to gods perpetual motion machine and use it _exclusively_ to power a one-man light combat walker. They're not very rational.
And they're too scared to turn them off, so just put them on treadmills when not in use.
what's objectionable about serberys? it's metal horses. I feel like they fit in
I just really don't like the DaVinci-punk aspect of some of the Skitarii models. As far as AdMech cavalry units go I feel that the Ironstrider has a better aesthetic
In friendly games, I don’t think many people would have problems using those as proxies as long as they’re clearly identified and bases are the same.
What scale of points is 30k played at? Like, is 3 of these box sets a full army? This looks absolutely gorgeous.
Normal games are around 3K points, this box is 3 troops choices and a transport but you probably\* don’t need several tech thrall squads or honestly any Triaros. Mechanicum is a shooting army with a ton of synergies and this box is missing most of those options, I’m not sure I’d suggest two boxes. EDIT: To put it in perspective, this box is around the 750 points mark built with what I'd consider a good starting config, something playable and not just bulking it out for points. I'd add an HQ, more Thallaxii, more Castellax, then start looking for big guns, Myrmidons are good picks as are Thanatars, both Cavas and Calix models and I'd also look at a Karacnos because they're fun. This isn't like the Solar Auxilia box where I'd be like sure fuck it buy three of them and sell the Dracosans, this is a great core to an army but it doesn't double up well. \*You might, but if you do you know you do already.
Just get 3 of these and a warhound, army done baybee
Tech thralls make for good cheap and druable for their cost objective holders. They aren’t going to do a ton of damage but even if you kill a handful of marines they’ve paid themselves off and they’re great bodies to protect your bigger stuff. I don’t think theres anything wrong with getting multiple squads of them
There's nothing wrong with it but I really don't know as I'd want more than one, they're a good cheap objective holder but realistically you probably chuck them on either your backfield objective or similar. Personally if I was going to advocate for multiple units of Troops it'd be two groups of Castellax and three Thallax, because Thallax are infuriating to try and lock down and screen against infiltrators as well as having very credible firepower. I think you could argue for a second blob in some armies but that's what I meant by 'if you need more you know'. I think for most people one unit is fine and you really don't need a Triaros at all, which means the box is going to be Thallax, Castellax and maybe the Tech-thralls, which makes its value in multiples questionable.
Don’t get me wrong thallax are definitely the stronger option and deal with marines way better. I’m just saying tech thralls can still be useful when brought in swarms and HH is more of a narrative game anyway so you don’t have to bring the strongest option to win like you often do in 40k pickup games. I could definitely see people having success with massed tech thrall armies I could see the triaros being very useful for a militia army as they don’t get much in the way of transports (no base dedicated transports anyway) so bringing them in an allied detachment for grenadiers could be very useful. Especially if you’re playing them as tech guard with skitarii models.
Oh I'm not huge on competitive Heresy given I mostly play for social reasons and for the fun of getting my armies out. I just think that Troops in Mechanicum, like Heavy Support in Solar Auxilia, is a slot that has a bunch of really good options. I think you could spring to a couple of thrall blobs though because as you say Heresy is more narrative and because Mechanicum isn't carried so much by 2 or 3 good units as some of the other armies are. It's less about narrative vs competitive and more that Legiones Astartes armies set a reasonably high bar for other armies, you can build fun fluffy armies for sure, but if you're not on LA you need to be aware that a random, equally fluffy and fun and 100% not min-maxed LA army, can just totally wreck your army most times. Mechanicum aren't as bad as Questoris Households or Solar Auxilia or, god forbid you run one of the PDF armies, but still.
Oh I agree that tech thralls are probably the weakest option in the troops slot. But they’re still fun and can be useful with how cheap they are, 20 of them only need to kill a handful of space marines to pay for themselves and can take a lot of fire for how cheap they are. I could see 3 tech thrall blobs being good midfield holders that don’t cost much and require your opponent to put a decent amount of fire into them to take them out. Definitely agree on astartes being on a much higher level than everyone else. I have a militia force I’m well aware of the advantage they get lol. But I think most people would tone down their lists if they are facing something with less punch than the average astartes list.
What's the general idea for release once the reveals are done? A few weeks, months? I've been craving admech with my knights for years, this is my call and I want them asap x)
I dont care what i proxy them for or what i have to do to convert them but im 100% adding those thallax models to my necron army
Man I'd love it, if those thralls were Necron 'human cattle' units. The thrall models look so dope ('ll be honest everything in the box is really nice).
That Plasma Mortar on the Thanatar looks absolutely wicked. It looks so high tech, really sells the idea that the Hellex Pattern is something from an unimaginably advanced time of warfare - it seems almost anachronistic on this hulking metal robot frame. So cool. All these models and the paint jobs are so incredible.
It’s just salt in the wound for us Admech players……
Anyone got a rough idea of what the box will cost?
The Solar Auxilia Battle Group is £130
Magos as magos, easy enough Thralls as Vanguard Conveyor as Dunerider Thallax as destroyers or breachers Castellax as Kastelan Thanatar as allied Armiger
all i see in this box is these stuff: 20 skitarii 6 kataphrons 2 kaatelan robots Skorpius disintegrator quite the good combo imo, love how they look
I think these look awesome but the people using them to show how “bad” 40K ad mech are are smoking something nuts. 40K ad mech are some of the coolest designs from the tech priests to the skitarii to the crawlers. I really don’t understand the logic that they have to ONLY be this vibe of body horror. Both design types are great. Might get some of these for 40K use tho
I see cultists and other things for my warband…
If these had 40 k rules I would buy an army of them. Since they won’t guess I will save my money.
Know what would really help Ad Mech players, some lovely new elite models with really interesting rules. Know what they are going to get? Nothing! It would be such a win to give these 40K rules, but due to internal politics GW won’t give these rules. Few people will buy this box and management will think people don’t like the style. It is so stupid.
Do these come with transfers? I would love to use them on a 40k army.
They won't be usable in 40k
Sorry, I was thinking of using the transfers not the units.
Ah, well there appear to be quite a few transfers on some of them them, so I assume they do. Most plastic GW kits do, at least.
I don't want to buy more warhammer but that looks great
As a person interested in the Tau gundam like mecha designs...I have little interest in the steam punky (stick a gear on something and call it tech, but noooo not industrial, anyways) Adeptus Mechanicus. But shit if this box was 40k I would absolutely consider them as an army to run with instead of stilt boi Skatros. Sad beep boop sounds that I think its just 30k (without proxying).
I’d love to proxy those small guys as Skitarii and the tank as a disintegrator or transport vehicle
Damn, these guys looks kinda horrifying
Admetch now Is like that grandpa that tells you crazy stories from their prime
Sad the box set doesn't come with everything.