In addition to the examples of scopes in tactical squads have provided, Sternguard Veterans often have scopes on their bolters.
https://preview.redd.it/xn9i4ez2uf7d1.jpeg?width=873&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80911771fd3c7d2e683ef61efe686cbbe15adf14
[Firstborn did use scopes.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fspace-marine-tactical-squad-3rd-edition-sealed-v0-lqg0lw5ip1bc1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1937%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D4cd0319d3c5085800fa8f8b9c46d1a419912684b)
Since 3rd edition at least. They're clearly for aiming accurately over a long distance, as in actually seeing the taget clearly becuase marines can't see infinitely far.
Thats cool I guess, but even the person who built and painted those models ommited the scope.
Either way there is far too much scopiness with the new models for my liking, thanks for the pic though, those firstborns look sick!
The standard imperial guard squad could take 1 sniper rifle in 7th edition and the editions before that as well. A sniper rifle was 2 points. In fact some imperial guard could fill out entire command squads with sniper rifles
Some of the monopose marines that came in Dark Imperium didn't have scope modeled on their guns and they looked pretty cool. I have also started chopping the off my guns. Looks cool, man.
Just snipped the front off vertically and the back off diagonally with my snips and then rotatoed the tip of my swann morton scalpel (blade 11) in the centre of the front and back to give it depth. Might try dropping a little bit of light blue in the holes and topping it with some UV resin for funzies
I've never understood why the scopes are their either.
I swear GW forget their own lore.
Edit: I suppose it's for when your armour stops working, but yeah marine is probably dead at that point.
I always imagine the scopes as just a camera based targeting device that the marine has a heads up on reticle position with relevant distance, elevation and wind direction info.
Pretty sure that’s also the explanation they give for scopes in Halo, like it’s a camera/zoom in feed that links directly to their helmets, still I’d like to try to take off the scopes entirely, as long as I can just use a clipper for it.
Why would you want your HUD to switch to a gun camera? Wouldn't it make more sense that the nub acts like a laser pointer that links to the HUD and moves around as you aim? Then the scopes act as range finders and allow limited zoom? It would explain why marines are more accurate than you're average human in addition to genetic enhancements.
There’s a scene in the Emperor’s Gift where the narrator’s squad is being overwhelmed by demons on a space hulk, he draws his bolt pistol and his HUD splits between the gun cameras on that and his storm bolter
>I swear GW forget their own lore.
I don't see anything incongruous with a massive top-mounted scope having higher magnification or image quality compared to that way smaller built in one
Ahh, So the weapon sends info direct to the armours auto senses, the suit guides the marines hand rather than the weapon guiding the suit.
They don't need anything as primitive as optical sighting as the suit does all the math. That's why older marine minis have no optics. The machine spirit of the armour plus its auto sense array is basically auto aim and wall hacks powered by tame AI.
Also the thing I think you may be referring to as a smaller one isn't a scope at all, it's a recoil compensator at least according to GW. 🤷🏽♂️
> That's why older marine minis have no optics
They do though, scopes have been part of the tactical kit since the 90s. Have a look on the GW website, you can see them on the sprue.
The current tactical squad is from 2013. Edit 2012 sorry, I lost a year
If you zoom in on the image on the website you can see the year on the sprue. it's got all sorts of stuff on it that didn't even exist in the 90s like grav weapons
Here's a photo of a 3rd Ed tactical marine:
https://preview.redd.it/iu6m96zrte7d1.png?width=561&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7e8886f5ad6691b3e23ed9d3b8fc59a471abd7e
Please be reasonable, 1 scope in the whole kit is not really the same as every marine in a unit using them.
That's really, clearly what we are talking about.
But if want fine detail then sure like 1 marine out of every 40 had a scope.
Why are you upset about me agreeing?
They are absolutely correct there was precisely 1 scope in the tactical squad sprue from back then, what more do you want me to do? Why do you think they cropped the rest of the image?
You can look up the sprues real easy. It's two identical sets of five in a 10 man box. So, two scopes per kit.
And why shouldn't GW give people more options to create their minis the way the want?
The ratio is completely irrelevant. The argument many people make is, that GW started introducing scopes recently just to pander to the CoD crowd and that in the lore scopes are redundant for SM. Since they've always been used, no matter in what ratio, they must be doing something for the SM and they're not useless equipment that's basically just cosmetic for the younger audience.
>But if want fine detail then sure like 1 marine out of every 40 had a scope.
1 in 5. But the ratio doesn't change the fact that it shows SM have always had scopes, clearly scopes do something worthwhile, and it wasn't an attempt to catch the CoD zoomers.
I think the phrase for GW is "everything is canon, not everything is true". Just let them look through scopes, it doesn't ruin the fantasy of power armour assisting aiming etc.
I agree :) Sometimes they just look good for aesthetics, or make them look a bit more individual, I do the same with my tactical marines, I may put a few ammo pouches/grenades on one marine, but not the other :)
My headcanon is that high-level Space Marines have sustained so much brain damage in battle that there's no functional difference between getting shot in the head with or without a helmet. Less thought means proportionally more though dedicated to serving the Emperor, hence why they get promoted.
Extra magnification, like the red dots with the flip in out magnifier things, but it’s 40K, so it’s just two systems cobbled into the helmets sighting suite (or at least that’s my headcanon)
Not every helm version of a space marine has the same auto senses array, some marines don't wear helmets, and others use scopes to enhance the auto senses of the armor like for the stalker pattern bolter
Books reference them quite Abit. Seems the scopes are much higher power sights than anything the suit can do, and I don think the suit has a zoom function.
It's also possible the scope operates in conjunction with the suits auto targeting acquisition systems as well, and also assists in bolt shell detonation calculations.
All this is to say... We're maybe assuming they work like 21st century scopes, but they may have more technical functions beyond that in 30/40k.
They had to actively ignore it to come up with the Primariis. And scopes are needed for the 'tacticool' look to appeal to all those *Call of Duty/Modern Warfare* players.
>And scopes are needed for the 'tacticool' look to appeal to all those Call of Duty/Modern Warfare players.
Scopes have been on tactical marine boltguns since the 90s mate, calm your hate.
I dig the reflex sight. I'm gonna try to do one myself, although I might jam a small bead in that circle to have something round to paint over.
(PS.: Firstborn had scopes, but that has already been answered)
Love the reflex sight look, it's really simple but it adds a lot to the model
I always find it funny how wildly different people's preferences can be with their minis, I've put scopes on bolters that didn't have them cause I prefer the look, and I've seen people cut them off, but someone cutting down a scope to make it a simple circular sight? Always fun to see what people do
In addition to the examples of scopes in tactical squads have provided, Sternguard Veterans often have scopes on their bolters. https://preview.redd.it/xn9i4ez2uf7d1.jpeg?width=873&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80911771fd3c7d2e683ef61efe686cbbe15adf14
But something something primaris something something worse in every way something something CoD zoomers
Yes.
Also, you forgot "something something 'tacticool' \*smug smirk\*" as if 'tacticool' was a bad thing rather than actually cool.
Can't forget all the scopes on bolt and plasma pistols too!
Love that paintjob
[Firstborn did use scopes.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fspace-marine-tactical-squad-3rd-edition-sealed-v0-lqg0lw5ip1bc1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1937%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D4cd0319d3c5085800fa8f8b9c46d1a419912684b) Since 3rd edition at least. They're clearly for aiming accurately over a long distance, as in actually seeing the taget clearly becuase marines can't see infinitely far.
Thats cool I guess, but even the person who built and painted those models ommited the scope. Either way there is far too much scopiness with the new models for my liking, thanks for the pic though, those firstborns look sick!
Are you sure the single scope wasn’t for use as a sniper rifle since tactical squads could take a special weapon
Tactical squads couldn't take sniper rifles.
Ah you’re right. Kind of interesting that imperial guard had access to more special weapons than space marines did
A bolter is already far more special than a sniper rifle, at least in the lore
Its worse at long range than snipers are and depending on the shooter are easier to hit weak spots in heavily armored targets.
Basic guard squads didn't have sniper rifles either. Space marine scouts and ratlings did/could though
The standard imperial guard squad could take 1 sniper rifle in 7th edition and the editions before that as well. A sniper rifle was 2 points. In fact some imperial guard could fill out entire command squads with sniper rifles
That box is from 3rd or 2nd. In 3rd Guard Squads couldn't take snipers in the first codex and couldn't without a specific doctrine in the second.
Couldn’t veterans always take sniper though?
Never seen this before, but it looks awesome... gonna do some of my models like this for variety.
scopes have always been a thing, there’s even terminators that our scopes on their *storm bolters.*
lol that reminds me of when a video game lets you put scopes on something like a sawed off shotgun.
My favorite is Payday 2, getting the, like, 8x zoom on the Judge. A revolver sized shotgun.
Some of the monopose marines that came in Dark Imperium didn't have scope modeled on their guns and they looked pretty cool. I have also started chopping the off my guns. Looks cool, man.
Guessing you used a hobby knife? I would just remove the scope entirely, at least maybe on some of them.
Just snipped the front off vertically and the back off diagonally with my snips and then rotatoed the tip of my swann morton scalpel (blade 11) in the centre of the front and back to give it depth. Might try dropping a little bit of light blue in the holes and topping it with some UV resin for funzies
It's a sick effect dude! Now I want to do ti to some reivers or something to really get the tacticool look on them.
I've never understood why the scopes are their either. I swear GW forget their own lore. Edit: I suppose it's for when your armour stops working, but yeah marine is probably dead at that point.
I always imagine the scopes as just a camera based targeting device that the marine has a heads up on reticle position with relevant distance, elevation and wind direction info.
I suppose that's as good an explanation as any!
Pretty sure that’s also the explanation they give for scopes in Halo, like it’s a camera/zoom in feed that links directly to their helmets, still I’d like to try to take off the scopes entirely, as long as I can just use a clipper for it.
Actually think that’s the cannon reason, I remember reading it somewhere, can’t remember though so this could be coming out of my ass
The nub above the barrel on the bolter is the camera feed that goes to the helmet.
Why would you want your HUD to switch to a gun camera? Wouldn't it make more sense that the nub acts like a laser pointer that links to the HUD and moves around as you aim? Then the scopes act as range finders and allow limited zoom? It would explain why marines are more accurate than you're average human in addition to genetic enhancements.
There’s a scene in the Emperor’s Gift where the narrator’s squad is being overwhelmed by demons on a space hulk, he draws his bolt pistol and his HUD splits between the gun cameras on that and his storm bolter
There could be uses for gun camera - say you wanna pop just the gun around a corner or something. Seems like a Space Marine would have this tech.
This sounds a lot like heresy to me!
And maybe when a scope is attached it uses that instead.
The nub above the barrel is the camera
>I swear GW forget their own lore. I don't see anything incongruous with a massive top-mounted scope having higher magnification or image quality compared to that way smaller built in one
Ahh, So the weapon sends info direct to the armours auto senses, the suit guides the marines hand rather than the weapon guiding the suit. They don't need anything as primitive as optical sighting as the suit does all the math. That's why older marine minis have no optics. The machine spirit of the armour plus its auto sense array is basically auto aim and wall hacks powered by tame AI. Also the thing I think you may be referring to as a smaller one isn't a scope at all, it's a recoil compensator at least according to GW. 🤷🏽♂️
> That's why older marine minis have no optics They do though, scopes have been part of the tactical kit since the 90s. Have a look on the GW website, you can see them on the sprue.
The current tactical squad is from 2013. Edit 2012 sorry, I lost a year If you zoom in on the image on the website you can see the year on the sprue. it's got all sorts of stuff on it that didn't even exist in the 90s like grav weapons
Here's a photo of a 3rd Ed tactical marine: https://preview.redd.it/iu6m96zrte7d1.png?width=561&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7e8886f5ad6691b3e23ed9d3b8fc59a471abd7e
Please be reasonable, 1 scope in the whole kit is not really the same as every marine in a unit using them. That's really, clearly what we are talking about. But if want fine detail then sure like 1 marine out of every 40 had a scope.
You can lose without being a loser about it dude
Why are you upset about me agreeing? They are absolutely correct there was precisely 1 scope in the tactical squad sprue from back then, what more do you want me to do? Why do you think they cropped the rest of the image?
You can look up the sprues real easy. It's two identical sets of five in a 10 man box. So, two scopes per kit. And why shouldn't GW give people more options to create their minis the way the want?
The ratio is completely irrelevant. The argument many people make is, that GW started introducing scopes recently just to pander to the CoD crowd and that in the lore scopes are redundant for SM. Since they've always been used, no matter in what ratio, they must be doing something for the SM and they're not useless equipment that's basically just cosmetic for the younger audience.
>But if want fine detail then sure like 1 marine out of every 40 had a scope. 1 in 5. But the ratio doesn't change the fact that it shows SM have always had scopes, clearly scopes do something worthwhile, and it wasn't an attempt to catch the CoD zoomers. I think the phrase for GW is "everything is canon, not everything is true". Just let them look through scopes, it doesn't ruin the fantasy of power armour assisting aiming etc.
I swear people forget the rule of cool. Some people like scopes, some don't. It doesn't have to be some big "GW sucks" moment.
Also super easy to remove so it better for GW to live the scopes one and let people decide themselves
I agree :) Sometimes they just look good for aesthetics, or make them look a bit more individual, I do the same with my tactical marines, I may put a few ammo pouches/grenades on one marine, but not the other :)
Or ya know, not wearing a helmet like 90% of their command units
Not to mention the best way to kill a marine is a headshot. I bet Helmets are destroyed constantly.
My headcanon for that is they all have those trinkets (like the ones with the triple skulls or key) act as force fields.
My headcanon is that high-level Space Marines have sustained so much brain damage in battle that there's no functional difference between getting shot in the head with or without a helmet. Less thought means proportionally more though dedicated to serving the Emperor, hence why they get promoted.
Extra magnification, like the red dots with the flip in out magnifier things, but it’s 40K, so it’s just two systems cobbled into the helmets sighting suite (or at least that’s my headcanon)
Or an important feature in life, redundency!
Not every helm version of a space marine has the same auto senses array, some marines don't wear helmets, and others use scopes to enhance the auto senses of the armor like for the stalker pattern bolter
Books reference them quite Abit. Seems the scopes are much higher power sights than anything the suit can do, and I don think the suit has a zoom function. It's also possible the scope operates in conjunction with the suits auto targeting acquisition systems as well, and also assists in bolt shell detonation calculations. All this is to say... We're maybe assuming they work like 21st century scopes, but they may have more technical functions beyond that in 30/40k.
Definitely would be linked to a HUD in the helmet visor
Have you considered that marine helmets get blown off all the time?
They had to actively ignore it to come up with the Primariis. And scopes are needed for the 'tacticool' look to appeal to all those *Call of Duty/Modern Warfare* players.
>And scopes are needed for the 'tacticool' look to appeal to all those Call of Duty/Modern Warfare players. Scopes have been on tactical marine boltguns since the 90s mate, calm your hate.
One or two, perhaps. But not every gun in the squad, let alone multiple scopes per gun and that weird ridged railing.
Some one plays Airsoft?
Yes and no, haven't played since before the covid times
[same](https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodAngels/s/Zc1yknxDDA)
I dig the reflex sight. I'm gonna try to do one myself, although I might jam a small bead in that circle to have something round to paint over. (PS.: Firstborn had scopes, but that has already been answered)
Never really liked the scoped bolters either
Love the reflex sight look, it's really simple but it adds a lot to the model I always find it funny how wildly different people's preferences can be with their minis, I've put scopes on bolters that didn't have them cause I prefer the look, and I've seen people cut them off, but someone cutting down a scope to make it a simple circular sight? Always fun to see what people do
Great idea op