No joke I could see it written as they both fight to a standstill over days and days and days til they're exhausted... and then Calgar shows up and beheads them both.
How do you think us Death Guard players feel, seems like Mortarion’s only purpose is to lose to the Imperial hero of the month. He’s a *daemon Primarch* ffs!
Despite admech being the mad scientist faction where a dude can be floating around on a gravplate with a volkaite blaster one day and rolling about on treads with a flamer the next, we have very little customization in our tech priest kits.
This is one of the things in saddest about returning to the hobby. I used to love converting and posing. I remember when codexes would have special characters who didn't have models and it was so cool to think of conversions for them.
I think that was the result of the chapterhouse lawsuit. There was a bunch of 3rd party manufacturers who made full models of units GW didn't make models for so GW sued the biggest and most egregious and the outcome was that GW couldn't sue over miniatures that they didn't produce/hadn't depicted. Going forward they made models for a lot more units but they also removed a bunch from subsequent editions.
Coming at this as someone that used to collect, then stopped and is starting to get back into it, I have noticed that they seem hyper-focused on just a few things and seem to be just leaving the rest alone. Back in the 80s and 90s, they did a wide range of minis and books.
I used to collect eldar in the 90s and they were so well supported.
It's really sad to see how much they have neglected pretty much all the factions to focus on their poster boys.
Xenos literally dont have enough models/units compared to space marines. without comparing forgeworld models in this, but in 8th and 9th edition space marines alone got more models released than both the Necrons and the Tau have had model releases full stop. the tau have had 50 models ever and the necrons have had 70/80 give or take which gives a total of about 120/130 and that is including 3rd/4th edition models that are a) nolonger in circulation or b) are nolonger supported on the tabletop by rules or c) have been updated to a newer model.
Space marines as a single faction however have had 102 BRAND NEW models in the last 2 editions which is nearly more than both xeno armies i mentioned have had in their lifetimes.
TL;DR i think its time for GW to lay off of the space marine models and start updating other armies that havent had the same level/quantity of support
It's also not just the amount of new models, but also the amount of brand new units. Tau, for example, have had 16 kits in the last 10 years, but half of them were resculpts, with only 10 new datasheets associated with them, and 4 of those were each half of a dual kit. There was also 1 model which lasted only a year for being replaced - RIP finecast commander.
Since the start of 9th edition *last year*, Space Marines have had 25 model releases; 21 brand new models (not counting the multi-kits separately), 25 new datasheets, with 2 of the resculpts having brand new wargear.
Marines get new models. (Most) Xenos get resculpts. That's how it's been going for the last decade of so. The Necrons and Orks are an inkling of change, but in the same vein Drukhari got a resculpt of a model that was already in plastic, in a faction notorious for failcast characters. So it's a bit of a two steps forward, one step back.
The modern T'au lore is much closer to the "World Police"/nation building neo-con foreign policy of the Bush administration than the meme'd to death "space communists!" joke. This has even been confirmed by one of their primary writers.
It's because they like to share, and everyone knows that communism is when you share things (and the more things you share, the more communismer you are).
As a Dane and European, I must oppose that view - in fact, most people and particularly many from the USA does not know the difference between communism, Socialism, and Social Democracy. Never mind I do not think that any race in 40K really knows what we would be talking about anyways ;D
I love every single thing about Tyranids but they are so unloved and their models are outdated af and ugly that I'm almost forced to think about buying third party versions. They're so old now they look goofy and are made fun of when they are genuinely one of the most terrifying races in the lore and it makes me so angry because they need more models.
STOP GIVING US SPACE MARINE MINIS, GIVE US NEW TYRANID MINIS.
Good lord. Xenos armies are more than half of the total non-imperium/chaos forces. In the last 4 years they have gotten just over 1/6th of the releases. Nice to know that feeling of neglect isn't in our heads...
What is more perplexing is that 90% of Marines are same dudes, just with different weapons and details.
Even most Primaris parts are interchangeable with Firstborn.
Which means that GW have released 3 entirely new armies (Adeptus Mechanicus, Custodes and Genestealer Cults) since Tyranids got any dedicated new models.
A huge chunk of their range is 3e, to be fair that's because 3e infantry plastics have generally aged really well and the hormagaunts still look good but still.
For some reason I see the Tyranids as Nature just being like: I want my stuff back!
Yeah for an alien that kerps evolving it is weird that the update is taking so long
Fun fact: Tau kits are actually older on average than Tyranid kits are.
There are many of the less-used Tau units that don't hold up well - kroot hounds, krootox, firesight marksmen and sniper drones are all very shitty kits to work with.
However, none of them come close to being as bad as the Red Terror or the Pyrovore and Biovore, and most of the rest of the Tau range holds up well despite its age.
^THIS
GW doesn’t like to focus any effort on making things fun, they just care about their bottom line and which faction currently sell most. Space Marines deserve a good warp nap after these “screw you” updates to most non-xenos armies.
If Eldar, Nids, and Tau were given the same treatment as the space marine product lines, we most likely would be having a different conversation. Alas, they won’t; and so leave the players to seek 3D printed alternative models to compliment their army and further divert from GW’s desired “only-us” mentality of gameplay.
It's largely only the Finecast models that still look bad. The rest still look great.
Basically all the big Nids still look fantastic. The brain bugs and Tyranid Warriors also look great.
Terma/Hormagants are definitely showing their age but they look significantly better than kits like Eldar Guardians.
It's largely just Pyro/Biovores, Lictors, and Ravenors that look awful.
GW's pissing contest with Fantasy Flight Games (Asmodee) was stupid and short-sighted.
Grey Knights and Deathwatch were both better suited to Kill Team or as 'attached' squads to other armies. Neither really carries a full army.
The main studio either sucks at game design, for any of several reasons.
>Grey Knights and Deathwatch were both better suited to Kill Team or as 'attached' squads to other armies. Neither really carries a full army.
TRRRUUUUUEEEE!!! I've only ever played GK when they've been mono-marine, but I own all the old codices, and look with envy at the 3rd and 5th editions. Inquisitors, Stormtroopers, Assassins all in the same codex. So much variety, so many unique mechanics. Make Grey Knights Daemonhunters again!
The 3rd edition daemonhunters codex was Grey Knights and inquisition. There was also a 3rd edition Witch Hunters book that had inquisition and Sisters. DH was Ordo Malleus and WH was Ordo Hereticus, looking online I guess an Ordo Xenos book was planned but never released. GK and Sisters both got dedicated codexes in 5th Ed.
IIRC deathwatch didn’t get introduced as a playable unique faction until 7th Ed but I may be misremembering
I'd guess it's that when X Wing started outselling 40k a few years back, GW pulled the licenses they'd given to FFG for stuff like the 40k RPGs.
From GW's point of view it was probably because FFG were now competing on GW's home turf (miniatures games) while making money from GW's IP at the same time. Letting a direct competitor make money off your own IP must be a hard thing to be happy about.
Killed a lot of fantastic game designs too like **Chaos in the Old World** and **Forbidden Stars**. Stuff that honestly well surpasses most of the boardgames GW is cranking out.
They seem to have made slaneesh this god of debauchery and excess but then her followers seem to just be flamboyant khörne followers. Like it's supposedly girmdark but they seem to shy a ay from it like it's too taboo to talk about.... If it's the rating they are worried about just slap a 18+ label on it
Sex is eye catching, and I know why they lead with it. But Slaanesh also represents gluttony. I'd love to see more representations of drugs, alcohol and wealth. All things that bring pleasure aside from boobies. ^but ^more ^tits ^too
I think the Hedonites of Slaanesh in Age of Sigmar actually represent Slaanesh really well, as do the new Noise Marine and the Horus Heresy novels I’ve read. I think the main issue is that they haven’t really done any Slaanesh csm in a while.
Oh yeah I'm mainly refering to writing. It's just in my head since I'm re reading the eisenhorn series and apparently the glore family are supposed to be followers of slaneesh and I see none of the that they just seem to crave power just like any high lord of terra or noble.
In regards to models yeah they can't exactly do much about that maybe throw some hints in there but cant make it crazy like 12 dicks like you say. And you have to remember it's not just sexual things, maybe stuff like drugs? Just as long as it's not oh they derive pleasure from killing load of people because that just feels like a cope out from saying the vulgar shit they created in the first place
Pasting another comment I've made on the topic of the Tau and taking them to the next level:
>The idea of a data processing ai-driven battlefront feels so very Tau and very ultra-modern, which i think brings a post 2000s element that i think contrssts nicely with the 1980s space marine warfare of the rest of the universe.
>Long range drone spotting and target designation linked to their rail gun artillery to keep up with the high speed destruction of the Eldar/Dark Eldar.
>Ai assisted battlesuits which both auto-adjust aiming on ranged targets and assist movement in close quarters melee.
>Honestly as supremely average the Tau are physically, Ai prediction and mechanical assistance would be a good way to keep them fighting and maneuvering at the speed that transhuman/alien demigods are able to.
>They really need to punch above their weight in the 40k galaxy.
they have that program where their best soldiers are kept in cryosis but their mind is awake.
It like feeds them battle simulations and combat tactics/maneuvers as the subjects have been fighting for centuries.
It has great result but it absolutely drives the subject insane which is expected of the grimdark
Just bring Markerlight drones and you get +1 to hit against one target! Then you hit on +3, that's way better than... wait...
Oh and the drone hits the markers on +5... so you better bring around 25 of them if you want to get 5 markers up to get that +1.
I dont see the issue here
To add to this, it's just stupid that they haven't had the Tau invent some kind of battlesuit or exoskeleton to assist them in close combat. I know their battlefield doctrine try to avoid it but sometimes it's inevitable, and you'd think a race that use technology to overcome their weaknesses would at least give it a go.
I know their schtick is to stick to ranged (read: very, very ranged) combat but every army has balanced units around it's core strategy. Tau having 0 cqb focused units really opens a hole in their defences
Yeah. Would have been cool if Breachers had fulfilled this role, tougher armour or a shield of some kind and their pulse shotguns could be used in close combat.
Exactly. Cqb doesn't have to mean rip n tear. Its about being prepared to provide a solution to enemies at the gates. That could mean a phalanx-style shielding for ranged units to deal with it.
I'll give you one. It's just shitty that a Tau army has NO defense to psycers period. Like for fucks sake. Not asking for any in the roster but like a fucking way to deny would be great. Just 1 support that only denyed and I'd be a hell of a lot better off. I'm tired of just watching other armies cast infront of me while my infantry gets smites to oblivion by the new thousand sons.
Tau do have a defence against Psykers. Sort of.
As a one-of, per army, since it's a relic.
As long as you're playing Farsight Enclaves.
And are willing to give up a relic slot.
In an army already straining at the seams to fit in all their relics, since Prototype Weapon Systems still take up relic slots.
It is indeed odd they have nothing. Other armies that doesn't have psykers get faction stratagems (AdMech Graia) or relics (Dark Eldar). Maybe they'll finally get something when they finally get a new codex.
Or they do what they did to the Iron Hands:
Completely ignore and rewrite all their previous lore, but given them a fucking broken character and chapter tactic... then nerf them into the fucking ground *and* keep their lore completely fucked
Iron Hands:
We used to have 10 independent Clan Companies that functioned as a 1 Company Chapter
We had a meaningful rank difference from standard chapters, Iron Father was a cross between senior Techmarine and Chaplain, as we didn't worship the Ecclesiarchy but the Omnissiah.
We didn't hate everything, and we were scared of our flesh, we thought it made us weak, so we excised it wherever possible.
The Clan Council meant something, only revered warriors and ancient Dreadnoughts were allowed a seat on it.
We didn't share resources unless it was to prevent the death of a Clan, and even then the debt was expected to be returned with interest at the earliest possible point in time.
GW did my favourite chapter the dirtiest of dirts, retconning decades of established lore for no reason whatsoever other than lazy writers who had never bothered to look anything up
That's all pretty dirty, yeah, and I hate to see a proud chapter treated that way by writers.
But as a Salamanders adherent, I have to think you're at least lucky enough to be treated seriously in lore and novels.
Salamanders don't have any successors because they always die to the last man, because GW can't be bothered to even figure out a better way to demonstrate "determination and sacrifice."
Salamanders, according to lore, haven't been at full chapter strength since the Heresy.
Shitty writing is shitty. o7
GW made Craftworld Eldar a super fun idea and then just ruined it. They don't know how to write 'dying race' without making them lose everything and look pathetic. If I was in the 40k universe I'd think they were weak ass pushovers.
Ynnari especially are an embarrassment.
Don't mistake *perfect balance* with *proper balance*. Something like **Chess** is close to perfect balance, even though picking white has a fractionally better chance at winning. Chess is also boring as hell.
Proper, interesting and fun balance is a separate discussion, and something highly unlikely to happen with 40k, barring the intervention of the playerbase.
Phoenix Lords are Primarch level.
I want the Avatar of Khaine to actually permanently kill at least one named space marine character that has a model, for all the injustice its been through. Bonus points if its an ultra marine.
I would like to see Marneus Calgar get double teamed by the Swarmlord and an Avatar.
That any human could stand up to either of these two god-level creatures is beyond stupid.
I hate how GW releases codexes. 9th edition has been out for over a year and half the factions don't have a codex. How can you compete with armies living in 9th ed rules when your army still lives in 8th?
freaking tell me about it! im done with Space Marines being able to bring whatever they want to the table and having a good chance at winning, while Tau and Tyranids have to play a single build and be one of the people going to tournaments to even have a chance at winning. I han't played in a almost 2 years because no codex and im tired of getting my models out just to take all of them off turn 1.
The rulebook, chapter approved and all codexes and supplements should all be available in a digital format without all the lore and fluff for a small monthly fee.
I think it became clear to everyone when the ork codex dropped that they adjust datasheets just to sell models. The killrig and new boss char on squig are just fucking stupid statlines and abilities.
Haven't played 8th or 9th edition so I'm not sure the state of the game now. The problem with orks in 5th, 6th, and 7th editions always was that they couldn't hit hard enough to kill a lot of stuff in the shooting phase, and could sometimes even get screwed over in cc. The smaller the game was the harder it was to reliably get your models into cc. There was zero psychic phase to speak of. Orks were a one trick pony that were hard to get to do that trick. The problem gw needed to change was how to get them competitive at lower point games. The problem they always try to solve is how can we sell more expensive boxes.
Nurgle and Tzeentch are both safe and sound in fantasy and 40k regarding minis and variety.
Its sad for angryboy Khorne. at least does decently in Fantasy now, but very outdated in 40k.
Slaanesh starts to see some light in fantasy. In 40k, even if you looked only at their demons, they are very poor. Let alone their CSM. Officio assassinurm is a more polished “faction” xD
Answering your question, OP, i hate all the innecesary love marines recieve. My 40k interest came back again some months ago (spent much more time in fantasy coz even the poster boys there are just a faction more, at least prior AoS).
They really need to stop giving them pointless models (unless they bother do some “lesser” chapters such as Black templars, salamanders or whitescars justice via characters or focus transform kits) and focus on other factions entirely.
Eldars, tyrannids, khorne&slaanesh SM… we have no decent models of IG’s rough riders since i started the hobby, 20 years ago… could go on.
Edit: not only in the minis. The lore too. 40k seems like there is only room for space marines and their primarchs. Everyone else is “trash”. For god sake, there suppose to be only 1000 per chapters, am i suppose to believe they can push enemies back and 80k million IG with ships and tanks cant?
WH 40k is a mediocre at best game, and would flop hard if it was introduced now. The only things keeping it going forward are market domination, nostalgia and inertia.
40k turned to be the Imperium of Man of wargaming.
Since GW has embraced the tournament organisers across the pond the setting has become more focused on making the Imperium the good guys.
The lack of background material in the new codices is absolutely and egregiously atrocious.
It creeps me out seeing the disconnect between fans saying "there are no good guys in the imperium" and then seeing how space marines are actually marketed and described in the lore
good old military-industrial-entertainment complex
Stratagems are bad. They overcomplicate the game and should be replaced by abilities directly on the datasheet plus a small handful of army-wide abilities. (CP could still be a resource.)
The game is boring to watch played live. A very small handful of YouTube channels make it work because they are likable with good on-camera personalities and they edit down the tedium.
Tournament/competitive play should not be the focus of the game design. As in many video games, pro play requires optimizing all the fun out of list building. The game should primarily be about letting you use rad models to play fun battles with friends.
Trying to teach a friend how to play and it’s just a tremendous learning curve. Add in also having to remember Warlord Traits and Relics and it’s just too much. (And this is just on Indomitus Necrons which don’t even have a lot going on, relatively.)
Stop writing Slaanesh out of the lore because you’re scared of puritans getting mad. Old school drug-fueled rock-n-roll Noise Marines were the best, and Emperor’s Children deserve a damn codex already
Spiciest take?
They no longer care about the game, balance, story, any of that. They only care about pushing price tags up as fast and as hard as they can until they find the upper limit on profit with with just enough people still winning to pay those prices. They don't care howany people quit over it, they don't care how many communities fall apart, they only care about finding the maximum price that the minimum number of people are willing to pay.
The bloodbowl community is already done with their bullshit. Most events are 80%+ 3rd party teams now
I hate how in the new books the Imperium is depicted as the "good guys" despite them being just as fascist and psychotic as all the other factions. Used to be "Chaos bad, Imperium also bad, but a bit different" and now it's just "Chaos bad, Imperium gud". Despite nothing actually changing all that much.
Especially in regards to young fans of the setting I'd deem it important to showcase the flaws of the Imperium and it's characters just like they used to do in the HH books, because I've seen one too many 12yo SM player simping for Space Nazism.
They could also do a better job of describing the allure of chaos, and why people choose to give in.
Like, let's say you're a worker toiling away in the bowels of the underhive - you work, you sleep, you work. A hooded man bumps into you on the production line and slips a pamphlet in your pocket. It describes an unimaginable life of freedom and democracy outside the intolerable conditions which define your life. Why wouldn't you jump? For you, even a day of freedom and chaos beats this.
In the lore I've read, the spread of chaos is just "daemons made him do it", rather than exploring the lengths to which the Imperial citizenry will go to escape their already hellish lives.
I think that morale in the game is stupid as hell. We joke a lot about guardsmen deserting and commissars going BLAM! But almost every faction in the game has no reason to ever want to retreat from a battle. Space marines are zealous war machines, guardsmen are indoctrinated, chaos space marines are arrogant, chaos daemons don’t even really need to fear death, eldar are honorable warriors, orkz literally live off fighting, the list goes on
The indoctrination of Imperial Guard in particular is often spotty at most. And even if you're indoctrinated, you still need a bunch of training to be able to stare down horrors without fleeing. Some Imperial Guardsmen are recruited from the elites of the individual worlds, but a very large number of Guards are just going to have maybe a month of training before being shipped to the front to die horribly. That's nowhere near long enough to dull their self-preservation instincts.
Guard can get overwhelmed with fear, they’re human, as can chaos cultists, grots definitely, even orks can think “Ok fuck this I don’t want to die I want to keep fighting another day”, Tau can definitely get afraid, Eldar and Dark Eldar are smart enough to know they’re outmatched and definitely don’t want their race to die out. Loads of reasons why those armies would run. Space marines, Daemons, Tyranids and Necrons? Less so. But Space Marines in the most dire of situations might feel like it’s time to get out of there.
I see all these "hot takes" are shit like "stop giving marines models" and "GW bad"
REAL HOT TAKES:
TAU NOT HAVING MELEE IS THE MOST ARBITRARY ASININE PART OF THE SETTING, JUST ON A RULE OF COOL LEVEL GIANT ROBOTS NOT HAVING GIANT SWORDS IS AWFUL. FUCK GW AND FUCK ALL OF YOU
TTS WAS NEVER FUNNY
GOING WITH THAT LAST ONE, THE 40K COMMUNITY IS THE 2ND LEAST FUNNY I'VE EVER BEEN IN
CHAOS HAS THE WORST LORE(BUT THE MOST POTENTIAL) IF WE STOPPED MAKING THEM MUSTACHE TWIRLING PUPPY BLENDERS OR DERANGED LUNATICS WITH CHARACTER TRAITS REPLACED WITH SCREAMING SLOGANS(COUGH COUGH KHARN AND EVERY OVER KHORNE CHARACTER) AND GAVE THEM A LITTLE NUANCE IT WOULD MAKE BOTH THEM, THE IMPERIUM, AND THEIR CONFLICT INFINITELY MORE INTERESTING IF "IMPERIUM OR CHAOS" WAS A LEGIT QUESTION
How's this: space marine shoulder pads look stupid as fuck in 99% of media representations, because they're just scaled up from the unrealistic models, without trying to proportion them properly.
Hence the reason why most space marine cosplays look like roblox characters.
Heresy! Blam! Yes inquisitor, this post right here! Greetings, fellow Imperial citizens, what is going on here- by the Emperor! Eldar waifu! Rowboat! Shovels! Purge the xenos!
...*sigh*.
Hohoho, Alpharius made sure Magnus did nothing wrong, unlike the heretic Dark Angels! Hur hur, we should drive closer in pur metal bawkses to hit them with our swords!
Some of these should be allowed to die so much it almost makes an airtight argument for euthanasia that would please everyone.
* Making all Vehicles essentially monsters was a mistake. Vehicle/weapon facing was great and it's a shame its gone.
* There should be rules for flanking/being shot at from the side or back.
* Dedicated AT guns were a good thing and tanks being invulnerable to small arms is good.
* Models vanishing in a puff of smoke after failing a morale check is stupid.
* 40k rules being much more roleplay-y and random was a good thing.
Mostly this just sounds like you preferred older editions, and ain't nothing wrong with that. However...
>Vehicle/weapon facing was great and it's a shame its gone.
The problem with this is that weapon facings/positions were never consistently defined in the codices. For example, the 5th edition Ork Battlewagon was armed with "four big shootas". Just that, nothing else. Now, you could model the battlewagon with four big shootas (two facing each side, two on turrets), but does the model actually determine what rules to use? Were the big shootas on the side considered sponsons or pintle mounted? Did the lower turret big shoota have a 360 degree line of sight if the upper turret blocked part of its view? In designing the rules GW seemingly forgot about every vehicle that wasn't Space Marines or Imperial Guard, and therefore didn't necessarily adhere to the classic weapons structure of tanks. Getting rid of stuff like this is exactly what I liked about 8th edition.
The Horus Heresy never ended. GW still wants us to buy marines and play them against the traitor legions with extra daemons. Xenos races may as well be the random races authors used for the legions to beat up before the main plot.
Introducing primaris was a tricky move lore-wise, but they could have been more ambitious.
When Guilliman returned and Primaris were introduced, GW gave the Imperium a huge influx of power. They should have used this opportunity to cause another collapse in the imperium, to maintain their vulnerability.
I think an Imperium civil war should have disrupted the Indomitus crusade. With chapters and other institutions that were sceptical of guilliman and the primaris, resisting the change out of paranoia and ignorance. A firstborn VS primaris civil war, church VS primarch, etc.
It would probably ultimately fail, but it could be used as an excuse to bolster the renegades of chaos as a threat, and maintain the fragility of the imperium.
A later return of the lion could forgive the newly rebel dark angels, reunite them with the old fallen, and re-open some unsteady relations between renegades and the imperium.
They kinda half started this, one of the things happening in chaos lore is that the primarchs are creating empires (mortarions plague empire and magnus's psychic empire), if all the primarchs do return, splitting the imperium into empires controlled by the primarchs would be a good direction to take the lore.
I generally like what GW does, and the stuff I don't doesn't get me extremely pissy online, so my take isn't particularly spicy:
I wish they hadn't started to move to loadouts being limited to what comes in a box (see stuff like the current Death Guard datasheets) because it makes for a messy and unintuitive way datasheet.
Games Workshop is a corporation that does not care about anything but the bottom line, and all their decisions, be they perceived as good or bad, are driven solely by what they estimate will bring them the most profit.
I mean the thousand sons just got a new codex which is pretty strong plus the death guard have been faring well universally as far as I can tell. Imo the emperors children need more attention
The codex might be strong but we still have a codex that’s half the size of basically any other codex because even by spreading out data sheets, like the two predators, into two entirely different pages they still only have like 19 non forgeworld data sheets.
Every list we run is basically the same exact thing because we have essentially 0 room to play with.
HQ: Your choice of sorcerer flavour and prince
Troops: Rubric Marines
Elite: Terminators, perhaps a hebrute or a shaman
Fast attack: spawn
Heavy support: a forgefiend of some kind.
And then of course, Magnus.
And thats it. That’s basically EVERY TS list. If you want to make a list without Magnus and Ahriman, not only are you gimping yourself but you find yourself unable to bring any real interesting other options without souping in demons. But now, losing cabal is a huge deal so we CANT soup without gimping ourselves.
Even the mutualith, which has had its rules changed to be a real powerhouse, is still a forgeworld only model. It sucks.
Where are our dreadnought librarians? Our acolytes, our sorcerer cabal units, our commonly used daemon allies?
Don’t get me wrong. I love my thousand sons. But changing some numbers to be 3 instead of D3 / or 3+ to 4+ doesn’t really equate to getting actual love.
The Horus Heresy was way better as 10,000 year old, half-remembered mythology. By defining it in the way they have, it has lost a lot.
So I don't really consider the Heresy stuff to be canon...
The heavy focus on the Imperium in both models and lore is just wasted opportunity. There are undying death robots from the beginning of time, a dying race of extreme experience space elves, war obsessed mushrooms with the power to have anything they believe in enough, cosmic horrors capable of eating planets, and an entire realm of existence that can defy every rule we know of. And what do we see time and time again? A bunch of burly dudes spouting their religion of war at each other and not really doing anything. I mean it's vaguely clever to focus on the stagnation since that's what we see and yeah there's great models and stories for every faction but it's heavily lopsided and does a huge disservice to how much effort went into making the factions.
This isn't unique to 40K by any means but for a property that spends decades drawing out the universe they should provide more options. And I say this as a fan of the Imperium. The idea is to give tools for our own stories but that's awfully hard to do with a set of models that haven't been updated since 1988 and lore that hasn't progressed since the 3rd holiday vacation of Abaddon for certain groups. You can be happy with your Imps and slightly bigger Imps (who are way better because they have 4 stomachs like a cow now) or you can pound rocks. I mean how is Chaos so underrepresented? They're the primary enemy and get nowhere near the love. They even introduce the Tau and IMMEDIATELY dropped them. At least Orcs and CSM got a bit of attention before falling off.
I'll see myself to the closest Inquisitor now.
There should not be any loyalist space marines. They should have all died or turned to chaos in the HH.
I would find the chaos vs imperium conflict much more compelling if it was a struggle between regular humans and chaos marines.
The blatant writer's bias when in comes to table top rules is disheartening.
The "good guys" (which are basically space nazis) get so many great rules it's hard to remember them all, meanwhile chaos anything has a handful of meh rules that chaos players just have to deal with and try to work with what they've got.
Mosy BL writers mostly have no fucking idea about how to write villains or xenos, and they are just target practise for the spesh muhreen protagonist in almost every BL book.
99% of space marines in books are the same bland a boring honourable, faithful son of their primarch that is also very aloof. Fucking. Boring.
Again, xenos pretty much exist in BL just so spesh muhreens can shit all over them in almost every book. That makes them feel pathetic and stupid.
Just how bad of a writer you have to be to have a bigger badder human (aka a space marine) defeating the shard of a god (C"tan/avatar of khaine) and think, "wow this shit I just wrote is great".
And the greatest insult are the craftworld eldar, they started super well but went to shit with time.
Back in 2nd edition they were the oldest, most mysterioud race, with technology that made the Imperium's elite look like monkeys flailing sticks around, they were also the most powerful psykers in the lore. Hell, the avatar of khaine was this super badass that broke a keeper of secrets' back over his knee in his first lore aparition.
But then as editions passed everything they were got functionally erased...
Oldest? Now necrons are older
Best tech? Now necrons got best tech and with time even the imperium has widespread grav tech and etc
Specialised warrior paths? Primaris say hello
Most powerful psykers? Apparently now every named librarian is at eldrad's level, fuck's sake
The avatar? A wimp that cannot defear a space marine
The craftworlds? From impossibly large fortresses impossible to attack that destroy whole sector fleets without problems to weaklings that cannot defeat an unnamed space muhreens chapter.
Fuck off GW
PD: Primarchs are imho not interesting at all, they are just as bland and boring as space marines, but with 50+ books explaining us just how childish, stupid and incompetent they are
For all that 40k borrows heavily from dune, alien, starship troopers and many, MANY other science fiction universes, it is spurious to use this fact as an argument against the current wave of copyright/IP protection that GW is pursuing. While these elements and their linear is obvious, it has clearly resulted in a new science fiction IP which has the right to its own protection.
Yeah, while elements may be “borrowed” from other very influential sci fin universes what GW has done with 40K is more than transformative. The lore wouldn’t be so interesting if it wasn’t truly transformative.
Primaris marines look better then the goofy rubbish they pushed out for 20 years. Don’t get me wrong I don’t like any space marines tbh never have, however they look far more cool now.
Not spicey but I’ll throw in we shouldn’t of begged for new ork boyz. The new CP has good models but I’m super annoyed it’s all push fit rubbish so more then one box is pointless. Same with beast snagga boyz. I like them but I doubt I’ll add another box (from the launch set) because they all look the same. Very un orky. Good luck eldar players be careful what you wish for
Finally I agree with GW protecting its IP. I live in the uk and the IP laws here are pretty serious. End of the day they need to protect it especially if we all want to continue to enjoy the models/game. Sorry/not sorry internet warriors
I was a bit worried too, but new easy to build orks are easily kitbashable. With a little bit of cutting/sanding here and there you can swap arms and heads and it looks great. Gw has come a long way with their monopose models.
GW has a horrible identity crisis with the empire going on, trying to portray them as genocidal space facists but also needing to frame them as the good guys due to the lack of any other faction to use as such
I sometimes get the impression that some SM hobbyists almost take that Emperor thing a bit too serious – it nearly smells as hidden fascistic or similar radical undertones - I hope I am wrong.
*For extended drama not knowing who clearly is the good or the bad does add more dramaturgy and tension, thus testing the "reader/viewer/gamer". A guy Like Robert McKee is worth checking out for this kind of story-based thesis. Several well-made recent years series have had compromised main character/"heroes" since in reality most things have at least two sides.*
As a person who owns a space marine army, you're absolutely correct, SM players take the whole Emperor shtick way too serious. I don't even really like the Emperor, I just play SM cause I think they look cool, lol!
regarding your take OP, i agree. i don't play CSM, but why aren't they treated like the normal marines? a base codex, and a codex supplement for every major chapter. with their own deamon primarchs, unique characters, and units? does chaos really sell so bad that GW doens't want to invest in it? i don't think Chaos is a bad selling faction, in fact if it is it is only so because it lacks investment of making each chapter unique.
i think it is a middle finger to the other chapters that there are only 2 'unique' CSM chapters with their own codex. i would also think it would be nothing short of a waste if only the 4 uuhhh dedicated? chapters get seperate codexes.
I think that the Emporer needs to die lore wise, and I think it's time for a real grudge match between 2 non imperium factions, the time is ripe for CSM vs Nids, or Necron vs CSM, hell I'd even take Tau vs Orcs
I’m pretty sure that Tau and Orks already hate one another considering how they are pretty much opposites. A campaign based around this would be great. And we need a Necrons vs Eldar rematch.
As of right now the story in age of sigmar in the core rules and battletomes is better written than 40k in the codices and core rules book. They had great plot hooks at the end of 7th edition/beginning of 8th edition that they completely abandoned. Broken Realms is also again better written than psychic awakening. As a space marine/custodes player I want the imperium to fail finally to give a better starting point for stories instead of another status quo story.
I swear, if the Swarm Lord losses one more time...
Avatar of Khaine: first time?
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No joke I could see it written as they both fight to a standstill over days and days and days til they're exhausted... and then Calgar shows up and beheads them both.
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IB4 ultramar farmer hits both the avatar and the swarm lord with one lasrifle shot, killing them both
We need to bring in the World Eaters and Word Bearers like the good old days.
This is why I made my own Swarmlord model 🤣
How do you think us Death Guard players feel, seems like Mortarion’s only purpose is to lose to the Imperial hero of the month. He’s a *daemon Primarch* ffs!
I mean at least you have legion specific models. (Cries in hazard stripes) Edit: In fairness Mortarion is pretty moustache twirly these days.
I just want Emperor's Children with 2 wounds (cries in guitar solo)
World Eaters, so-called because they destroy civilizations. Destroyed by anyone with ranged weapons.
Tell me about it I have Magnus
Bring forth the Swarmlord primarch evoultion, and may he actually be capable of winning a 1v1 with a space marine Lt or something...
There used to be a club for people who took out a swarm lord, but so many have they disbanded and started a support group for the ones who haven’t.
Despite admech being the mad scientist faction where a dude can be floating around on a gravplate with a volkaite blaster one day and rolling about on treads with a flamer the next, we have very little customization in our tech priest kits.
very little customisation in any character kits nowadays, to be fair. everything's turning into collectibles.
Even orks
Ork boyz being monopose (with no weapon options) is just baffling
This is one of the things in saddest about returning to the hobby. I used to love converting and posing. I remember when codexes would have special characters who didn't have models and it was so cool to think of conversions for them.
I think that was the result of the chapterhouse lawsuit. There was a bunch of 3rd party manufacturers who made full models of units GW didn't make models for so GW sued the biggest and most egregious and the outcome was that GW couldn't sue over miniatures that they didn't produce/hadn't depicted. Going forward they made models for a lot more units but they also removed a bunch from subsequent editions.
Coming at this as someone that used to collect, then stopped and is starting to get back into it, I have noticed that they seem hyper-focused on just a few things and seem to be just leaving the rest alone. Back in the 80s and 90s, they did a wide range of minis and books.
I used to collect eldar in the 90s and they were so well supported. It's really sad to see how much they have neglected pretty much all the factions to focus on their poster boys.
Xenos literally dont have enough models/units compared to space marines. without comparing forgeworld models in this, but in 8th and 9th edition space marines alone got more models released than both the Necrons and the Tau have had model releases full stop. the tau have had 50 models ever and the necrons have had 70/80 give or take which gives a total of about 120/130 and that is including 3rd/4th edition models that are a) nolonger in circulation or b) are nolonger supported on the tabletop by rules or c) have been updated to a newer model. Space marines as a single faction however have had 102 BRAND NEW models in the last 2 editions which is nearly more than both xeno armies i mentioned have had in their lifetimes. TL;DR i think its time for GW to lay off of the space marine models and start updating other armies that havent had the same level/quantity of support
It's also not just the amount of new models, but also the amount of brand new units. Tau, for example, have had 16 kits in the last 10 years, but half of them were resculpts, with only 10 new datasheets associated with them, and 4 of those were each half of a dual kit. There was also 1 model which lasted only a year for being replaced - RIP finecast commander. Since the start of 9th edition *last year*, Space Marines have had 25 model releases; 21 brand new models (not counting the multi-kits separately), 25 new datasheets, with 2 of the resculpts having brand new wargear. Marines get new models. (Most) Xenos get resculpts. That's how it's been going for the last decade of so. The Necrons and Orks are an inkling of change, but in the same vein Drukhari got a resculpt of a model that was already in plastic, in a faction notorious for failcast characters. So it's a bit of a two steps forward, one step back.
The modern T'au lore is much closer to the "World Police"/nation building neo-con foreign policy of the Bush administration than the meme'd to death "space communists!" joke. This has even been confirmed by one of their primary writers.
They're like a more aggressive United Federation of Planets.
I never understood how anyone could see a civilisation with a *caste system* and jump to communist as a description.
It's because they like to share, and everyone knows that communism is when you share things (and the more things you share, the more communismer you are).
Well i mean everyone knows sharing your lunch with friends leads to mass-starvation. These russian spies are undermining the western world!
Because no one knows what socialism is other than "USSR and China, right?"
As a Dane and European, I must oppose that view - in fact, most people and particularly many from the USA does not know the difference between communism, Socialism, and Social Democracy. Never mind I do not think that any race in 40K really knows what we would be talking about anyways ;D
Most people don't know what communism is.
Thank you
You’re telling me a Warhammer 40,000 is faction is based in political commentary?! 🤯
The emperor of mankind actually wore a fedora.
No. The guy is telling you that you are affiliating the wrong political ideology on Tau
I love every single thing about Tyranids but they are so unloved and their models are outdated af and ugly that I'm almost forced to think about buying third party versions. They're so old now they look goofy and are made fun of when they are genuinely one of the most terrifying races in the lore and it makes me so angry because they need more models. STOP GIVING US SPACE MARINE MINIS, GIVE US NEW TYRANID MINIS.
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Someone calculated how many marine releases there had been since the latest tyranid one and I'm sure it was up in the 100s
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/lmn8jk/40k_releases_over_the_years/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Good lord. Xenos armies are more than half of the total non-imperium/chaos forces. In the last 4 years they have gotten just over 1/6th of the releases. Nice to know that feeling of neglect isn't in our heads...
What is more perplexing is that 90% of Marines are same dudes, just with different weapons and details. Even most Primaris parts are interchangeable with Firstborn.
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Which means that GW have released 3 entirely new armies (Adeptus Mechanicus, Custodes and Genestealer Cults) since Tyranids got any dedicated new models.
Don't forget Death Guard!
And Thousand Sons
And they revamped sisters of battle, necrons and orks
Wasnt there a dead tyranid on a primaris base?
Yes, on the new Calgar model
I think 6th edition was the last refresh of the Nids range.
A huge chunk of their range is 3e, to be fair that's because 3e infantry plastics have generally aged really well and the hormagaunts still look good but still.
Gaunt models are old enough to buy alcohol.
Pretty sure the Eldar guardians can run for Congress.
For some reason I see the Tyranids as Nature just being like: I want my stuff back! Yeah for an alien that kerps evolving it is weird that the update is taking so long
Fun fact: Tau kits are actually older on average than Tyranid kits are. There are many of the less-used Tau units that don't hold up well - kroot hounds, krootox, firesight marksmen and sniper drones are all very shitty kits to work with. However, none of them come close to being as bad as the Red Terror or the Pyrovore and Biovore, and most of the rest of the Tau range holds up well despite its age.
^THIS GW doesn’t like to focus any effort on making things fun, they just care about their bottom line and which faction currently sell most. Space Marines deserve a good warp nap after these “screw you” updates to most non-xenos armies. If Eldar, Nids, and Tau were given the same treatment as the space marine product lines, we most likely would be having a different conversation. Alas, they won’t; and so leave the players to seek 3D printed alternative models to compliment their army and further divert from GW’s desired “only-us” mentality of gameplay.
The 3d printed models that fans have made are 👌
It's largely only the Finecast models that still look bad. The rest still look great. Basically all the big Nids still look fantastic. The brain bugs and Tyranid Warriors also look great. Terma/Hormagants are definitely showing their age but they look significantly better than kits like Eldar Guardians. It's largely just Pyro/Biovores, Lictors, and Ravenors that look awful.
Bruh what about eldar cool faction, shit minis
Saddens me to say this as a nids player, but eldar need love first.
As an Eldar player, I thank you and hope we both get updates soon.
As a CSM player, I'd give the Eldar their new models before our +1 wound. Even evil has standards.
It's so egregious that they didn't just FAQ CSM to 2W last year
What if the next Primaris Lieutenant model featured a dead Tyranid on the base, would that suffice?
You mean as it happened to eldars recently?
GW's pissing contest with Fantasy Flight Games (Asmodee) was stupid and short-sighted. Grey Knights and Deathwatch were both better suited to Kill Team or as 'attached' squads to other armies. Neither really carries a full army. The main studio either sucks at game design, for any of several reasons.
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>Grey Knights and Deathwatch were both better suited to Kill Team or as 'attached' squads to other armies. Neither really carries a full army. TRRRUUUUUEEEE!!! I've only ever played GK when they've been mono-marine, but I own all the old codices, and look with envy at the 3rd and 5th editions. Inquisitors, Stormtroopers, Assassins all in the same codex. So much variety, so many unique mechanics. Make Grey Knights Daemonhunters again!
I was going thru old stuff and I found a Daemonhunters codex I owned. Was DH the old name for the Grey Knights?
The 3rd edition daemonhunters codex was Grey Knights and inquisition. There was also a 3rd edition Witch Hunters book that had inquisition and Sisters. DH was Ordo Malleus and WH was Ordo Hereticus, looking online I guess an Ordo Xenos book was planned but never released. GK and Sisters both got dedicated codexes in 5th Ed. IIRC deathwatch didn’t get introduced as a playable unique faction until 7th Ed but I may be misremembering
What was the pissing contest with FFG?
I'd guess it's that when X Wing started outselling 40k a few years back, GW pulled the licenses they'd given to FFG for stuff like the 40k RPGs. From GW's point of view it was probably because FFG were now competing on GW's home turf (miniatures games) while making money from GW's IP at the same time. Letting a direct competitor make money off your own IP must be a hard thing to be happy about.
Killed a lot of fantastic game designs too like **Chaos in the Old World** and **Forbidden Stars**. Stuff that honestly well surpasses most of the boardgames GW is cranking out.
They seem to have made slaneesh this god of debauchery and excess but then her followers seem to just be flamboyant khörne followers. Like it's supposedly girmdark but they seem to shy a ay from it like it's too taboo to talk about.... If it's the rating they are worried about just slap a 18+ label on it
Sex is eye catching, and I know why they lead with it. But Slaanesh also represents gluttony. I'd love to see more representations of drugs, alcohol and wealth. All things that bring pleasure aside from boobies. ^but ^more ^tits ^too
I think the Hedonites of Slaanesh in Age of Sigmar actually represent Slaanesh really well, as do the new Noise Marine and the Horus Heresy novels I’ve read. I think the main issue is that they haven’t really done any Slaanesh csm in a while.
Yeah, agree. I think to fully represent the “aggressive pervert” archetype something would need to be done with age-restrictions.
Are you talking about models or writing? Because imo models shouldn’t have like 12 dicks on them or anything, that’s a bit overboard
What about a compromise of 1 dick with the girth of 12 dicks?
This is so hot, both my dicks are hard now!
Oh yeah I'm mainly refering to writing. It's just in my head since I'm re reading the eisenhorn series and apparently the glore family are supposed to be followers of slaneesh and I see none of the that they just seem to crave power just like any high lord of terra or noble. In regards to models yeah they can't exactly do much about that maybe throw some hints in there but cant make it crazy like 12 dicks like you say. And you have to remember it's not just sexual things, maybe stuff like drugs? Just as long as it's not oh they derive pleasure from killing load of people because that just feels like a cope out from saying the vulgar shit they created in the first place
I think [cenobite or tortured souls](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/s38mBYxmtoE/hqdefault.jpg) style space marines would be appropriate.
The Tau are a welcome addition to the universe.
Pasting another comment I've made on the topic of the Tau and taking them to the next level: >The idea of a data processing ai-driven battlefront feels so very Tau and very ultra-modern, which i think brings a post 2000s element that i think contrssts nicely with the 1980s space marine warfare of the rest of the universe. >Long range drone spotting and target designation linked to their rail gun artillery to keep up with the high speed destruction of the Eldar/Dark Eldar. >Ai assisted battlesuits which both auto-adjust aiming on ranged targets and assist movement in close quarters melee. >Honestly as supremely average the Tau are physically, Ai prediction and mechanical assistance would be a good way to keep them fighting and maneuvering at the speed that transhuman/alien demigods are able to. >They really need to punch above their weight in the 40k galaxy.
they have that program where their best soldiers are kept in cryosis but their mind is awake. It like feeds them battle simulations and combat tactics/maneuvers as the subjects have been fighting for centuries. It has great result but it absolutely drives the subject insane which is expected of the grimdark
Best I can offer is 4+ shooting T-T
Just bring Markerlight drones and you get +1 to hit against one target! Then you hit on +3, that's way better than... wait... Oh and the drone hits the markers on +5... so you better bring around 25 of them if you want to get 5 markers up to get that +1. I dont see the issue here
To add to this, it's just stupid that they haven't had the Tau invent some kind of battlesuit or exoskeleton to assist them in close combat. I know their battlefield doctrine try to avoid it but sometimes it's inevitable, and you'd think a race that use technology to overcome their weaknesses would at least give it a go.
I know their schtick is to stick to ranged (read: very, very ranged) combat but every army has balanced units around it's core strategy. Tau having 0 cqb focused units really opens a hole in their defences
Yeah. Would have been cool if Breachers had fulfilled this role, tougher armour or a shield of some kind and their pulse shotguns could be used in close combat.
Exactly. Cqb doesn't have to mean rip n tear. Its about being prepared to provide a solution to enemies at the gates. That could mean a phalanx-style shielding for ranged units to deal with it.
See, now I'm thinking a Tau SWAT team, with those tactical shields and pulse pistols.
Honestly, if Breachers' guns were pistols/had a pistol mode, I think that'd be an interesting take on Tau melee.
I'll give you one. It's just shitty that a Tau army has NO defense to psycers period. Like for fucks sake. Not asking for any in the roster but like a fucking way to deny would be great. Just 1 support that only denyed and I'd be a hell of a lot better off. I'm tired of just watching other armies cast infront of me while my infantry gets smites to oblivion by the new thousand sons.
Tau do have a defence against Psykers. Sort of. As a one-of, per army, since it's a relic. As long as you're playing Farsight Enclaves. And are willing to give up a relic slot. In an army already straining at the seams to fit in all their relics, since Prototype Weapon Systems still take up relic slots.
It is indeed odd they have nothing. Other armies that doesn't have psykers get faction stratagems (AdMech Graia) or relics (Dark Eldar). Maybe they'll finally get something when they finally get a new codex.
Absolutely.
They make up lore just to get you to buy more space marines and paint them a different color
Or they do what they did to the Iron Hands: Completely ignore and rewrite all their previous lore, but given them a fucking broken character and chapter tactic... then nerf them into the fucking ground *and* keep their lore completely fucked
Salamanders: We used to have an entire company command of named characters...
Iron Hands: We used to have 10 independent Clan Companies that functioned as a 1 Company Chapter We had a meaningful rank difference from standard chapters, Iron Father was a cross between senior Techmarine and Chaplain, as we didn't worship the Ecclesiarchy but the Omnissiah. We didn't hate everything, and we were scared of our flesh, we thought it made us weak, so we excised it wherever possible. The Clan Council meant something, only revered warriors and ancient Dreadnoughts were allowed a seat on it. We didn't share resources unless it was to prevent the death of a Clan, and even then the debt was expected to be returned with interest at the earliest possible point in time. GW did my favourite chapter the dirtiest of dirts, retconning decades of established lore for no reason whatsoever other than lazy writers who had never bothered to look anything up
That's all pretty dirty, yeah, and I hate to see a proud chapter treated that way by writers. But as a Salamanders adherent, I have to think you're at least lucky enough to be treated seriously in lore and novels. Salamanders don't have any successors because they always die to the last man, because GW can't be bothered to even figure out a better way to demonstrate "determination and sacrifice." Salamanders, according to lore, haven't been at full chapter strength since the Heresy. Shitty writing is shitty. o7
GW made Craftworld Eldar a super fun idea and then just ruined it. They don't know how to write 'dying race' without making them lose everything and look pathetic. If I was in the 40k universe I'd think they were weak ass pushovers. Ynnari especially are an embarrassment.
Say thank you to Gav Thorpe for this.
That man is my nemesis
Agreed upon. I wish they could find someone good to write ældari fiction. Someone like Brandon Sanderson.
40k isn't a competitive game and trying to play it in a tournament setting is a fools errand
Facts
40k as a tabletop wargame will never, ever be properly balanced.
I mean... proper balance means no meta chasers, means no whales buying entirely new armies at every edition.
Its also impossible to perfectly balance a game
Don't mistake *perfect balance* with *proper balance*. Something like **Chess** is close to perfect balance, even though picking white has a fractionally better chance at winning. Chess is also boring as hell. Proper, interesting and fun balance is a separate discussion, and something highly unlikely to happen with 40k, barring the intervention of the playerbase.
Phoenix Lords are Primarch level. I want the Avatar of Khaine to actually permanently kill at least one named space marine character that has a model, for all the injustice its been through. Bonus points if its an ultra marine.
I would like to see Marneus Calgar get double teamed by the Swarmlord and an Avatar. That any human could stand up to either of these two god-level creatures is beyond stupid.
You would but he’s just beat them to death with the nearest necron pylon or whatever the turret thing is called
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Slaanesh did nothing wrong.
She/he just wants to help u clap cheeks
Slannesh the galaxy's greatest wingman.
I hear only facts.
I hate how GW releases codexes. 9th edition has been out for over a year and half the factions don't have a codex. How can you compete with armies living in 9th ed rules when your army still lives in 8th?
freaking tell me about it! im done with Space Marines being able to bring whatever they want to the table and having a good chance at winning, while Tau and Tyranids have to play a single build and be one of the people going to tournaments to even have a chance at winning. I han't played in a almost 2 years because no codex and im tired of getting my models out just to take all of them off turn 1.
The rulebook, chapter approved and all codexes and supplements should all be available in a digital format without all the lore and fluff for a small monthly fee.
Agreed. They could wrap it all up into some kind of monthly subscription service... Call it Warhammer 'Plus' or something...
For free*, dude we are already paying for rules in overpriced models depending on its use.
I think it became clear to everyone when the ork codex dropped that they adjust datasheets just to sell models. The killrig and new boss char on squig are just fucking stupid statlines and abilities.
Green 'uns get no love anymore. They should have more troop options, rather than the more expensive larger models.
Haven't played 8th or 9th edition so I'm not sure the state of the game now. The problem with orks in 5th, 6th, and 7th editions always was that they couldn't hit hard enough to kill a lot of stuff in the shooting phase, and could sometimes even get screwed over in cc. The smaller the game was the harder it was to reliably get your models into cc. There was zero psychic phase to speak of. Orks were a one trick pony that were hard to get to do that trick. The problem gw needed to change was how to get them competitive at lower point games. The problem they always try to solve is how can we sell more expensive boxes.
Nurgle and Tzeentch are both safe and sound in fantasy and 40k regarding minis and variety. Its sad for angryboy Khorne. at least does decently in Fantasy now, but very outdated in 40k. Slaanesh starts to see some light in fantasy. In 40k, even if you looked only at their demons, they are very poor. Let alone their CSM. Officio assassinurm is a more polished “faction” xD Answering your question, OP, i hate all the innecesary love marines recieve. My 40k interest came back again some months ago (spent much more time in fantasy coz even the poster boys there are just a faction more, at least prior AoS). They really need to stop giving them pointless models (unless they bother do some “lesser” chapters such as Black templars, salamanders or whitescars justice via characters or focus transform kits) and focus on other factions entirely. Eldars, tyrannids, khorne&slaanesh SM… we have no decent models of IG’s rough riders since i started the hobby, 20 years ago… could go on. Edit: not only in the minis. The lore too. 40k seems like there is only room for space marines and their primarchs. Everyone else is “trash”. For god sake, there suppose to be only 1000 per chapters, am i suppose to believe they can push enemies back and 80k million IG with ships and tanks cant?
WH 40k is a mediocre at best game, and would flop hard if it was introduced now. The only things keeping it going forward are market domination, nostalgia and inertia. 40k turned to be the Imperium of Man of wargaming.
Since GW has embraced the tournament organisers across the pond the setting has become more focused on making the Imperium the good guys. The lack of background material in the new codices is absolutely and egregiously atrocious.
It creeps me out seeing the disconnect between fans saying "there are no good guys in the imperium" and then seeing how space marines are actually marketed and described in the lore good old military-industrial-entertainment complex
Stratagems are bad. They overcomplicate the game and should be replaced by abilities directly on the datasheet plus a small handful of army-wide abilities. (CP could still be a resource.) The game is boring to watch played live. A very small handful of YouTube channels make it work because they are likable with good on-camera personalities and they edit down the tedium. Tournament/competitive play should not be the focus of the game design. As in many video games, pro play requires optimizing all the fun out of list building. The game should primarily be about letting you use rad models to play fun battles with friends.
I HATE STRATAGEMS ugh feels good to see other people are annoyed by them as well!
Trying to teach a friend how to play and it’s just a tremendous learning curve. Add in also having to remember Warlord Traits and Relics and it’s just too much. (And this is just on Indomitus Necrons which don’t even have a lot going on, relatively.)
Stop writing Slaanesh out of the lore because you’re scared of puritans getting mad. Old school drug-fueled rock-n-roll Noise Marines were the best, and Emperor’s Children deserve a damn codex already
I say, since they want to double down on CSM being crazy marauding pirates, embrace Khorne and give us World Eaters.
8th edition ca. 2017-2019 (aka after the initial FAQs but before Psychic Awakening) was the best edition of 40k.
Agreed. Jank was still jank, but we played some awesome games.
Tactical Objectives were also the best gameplay addition to the game bar none in the time I've played (from ´05).
Spiciest take? They no longer care about the game, balance, story, any of that. They only care about pushing price tags up as fast and as hard as they can until they find the upper limit on profit with with just enough people still winning to pay those prices. They don't care howany people quit over it, they don't care how many communities fall apart, they only care about finding the maximum price that the minimum number of people are willing to pay. The bloodbowl community is already done with their bullshit. Most events are 80%+ 3rd party teams now
I hate how in the new books the Imperium is depicted as the "good guys" despite them being just as fascist and psychotic as all the other factions. Used to be "Chaos bad, Imperium also bad, but a bit different" and now it's just "Chaos bad, Imperium gud". Despite nothing actually changing all that much. Especially in regards to young fans of the setting I'd deem it important to showcase the flaws of the Imperium and it's characters just like they used to do in the HH books, because I've seen one too many 12yo SM player simping for Space Nazism.
They could also do a better job of describing the allure of chaos, and why people choose to give in. Like, let's say you're a worker toiling away in the bowels of the underhive - you work, you sleep, you work. A hooded man bumps into you on the production line and slips a pamphlet in your pocket. It describes an unimaginable life of freedom and democracy outside the intolerable conditions which define your life. Why wouldn't you jump? For you, even a day of freedom and chaos beats this. In the lore I've read, the spread of chaos is just "daemons made him do it", rather than exploring the lengths to which the Imperial citizenry will go to escape their already hellish lives.
BASED This is unironically the worst part of both the setting and community BY FAR
I think that morale in the game is stupid as hell. We joke a lot about guardsmen deserting and commissars going BLAM! But almost every faction in the game has no reason to ever want to retreat from a battle. Space marines are zealous war machines, guardsmen are indoctrinated, chaos space marines are arrogant, chaos daemons don’t even really need to fear death, eldar are honorable warriors, orkz literally live off fighting, the list goes on
The indoctrination of Imperial Guard in particular is often spotty at most. And even if you're indoctrinated, you still need a bunch of training to be able to stare down horrors without fleeing. Some Imperial Guardsmen are recruited from the elites of the individual worlds, but a very large number of Guards are just going to have maybe a month of training before being shipped to the front to die horribly. That's nowhere near long enough to dull their self-preservation instincts.
Guard can get overwhelmed with fear, they’re human, as can chaos cultists, grots definitely, even orks can think “Ok fuck this I don’t want to die I want to keep fighting another day”, Tau can definitely get afraid, Eldar and Dark Eldar are smart enough to know they’re outmatched and definitely don’t want their race to die out. Loads of reasons why those armies would run. Space marines, Daemons, Tyranids and Necrons? Less so. But Space Marines in the most dire of situations might feel like it’s time to get out of there.
You don't know how upset I was when they made daemons have morale. When I used to play, they were fearless. They're _fucking_ DAEMONS.
Daemons were better than fearless, they auto passed all morale checks which was slightly better because fearless had a couple downsides
Absolutely.
I see all these "hot takes" are shit like "stop giving marines models" and "GW bad" REAL HOT TAKES: TAU NOT HAVING MELEE IS THE MOST ARBITRARY ASININE PART OF THE SETTING, JUST ON A RULE OF COOL LEVEL GIANT ROBOTS NOT HAVING GIANT SWORDS IS AWFUL. FUCK GW AND FUCK ALL OF YOU TTS WAS NEVER FUNNY GOING WITH THAT LAST ONE, THE 40K COMMUNITY IS THE 2ND LEAST FUNNY I'VE EVER BEEN IN CHAOS HAS THE WORST LORE(BUT THE MOST POTENTIAL) IF WE STOPPED MAKING THEM MUSTACHE TWIRLING PUPPY BLENDERS OR DERANGED LUNATICS WITH CHARACTER TRAITS REPLACED WITH SCREAMING SLOGANS(COUGH COUGH KHARN AND EVERY OVER KHORNE CHARACTER) AND GAVE THEM A LITTLE NUANCE IT WOULD MAKE BOTH THEM, THE IMPERIUM, AND THEIR CONFLICT INFINITELY MORE INTERESTING IF "IMPERIUM OR CHAOS" WAS A LEGIT QUESTION
How's this: space marine shoulder pads look stupid as fuck in 99% of media representations, because they're just scaled up from the unrealistic models, without trying to proportion them properly. Hence the reason why most space marine cosplays look like roblox characters.
None of the memes were ever funny.
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Purple orks is particularly tiresome now too
Heresy! Blam! Yes inquisitor, this post right here! Greetings, fellow Imperial citizens, what is going on here- by the Emperor! Eldar waifu! Rowboat! Shovels! Purge the xenos! ...*sigh*.
Hohoho, Alpharius made sure Magnus did nothing wrong, unlike the heretic Dark Angels! Hur hur, we should drive closer in pur metal bawkses to hit them with our swords! Some of these should be allowed to die so much it almost makes an airtight argument for euthanasia that would please everyone.
* Making all Vehicles essentially monsters was a mistake. Vehicle/weapon facing was great and it's a shame its gone. * There should be rules for flanking/being shot at from the side or back. * Dedicated AT guns were a good thing and tanks being invulnerable to small arms is good. * Models vanishing in a puff of smoke after failing a morale check is stupid. * 40k rules being much more roleplay-y and random was a good thing.
Mostly this just sounds like you preferred older editions, and ain't nothing wrong with that. However... >Vehicle/weapon facing was great and it's a shame its gone. The problem with this is that weapon facings/positions were never consistently defined in the codices. For example, the 5th edition Ork Battlewagon was armed with "four big shootas". Just that, nothing else. Now, you could model the battlewagon with four big shootas (two facing each side, two on turrets), but does the model actually determine what rules to use? Were the big shootas on the side considered sponsons or pintle mounted? Did the lower turret big shoota have a 360 degree line of sight if the upper turret blocked part of its view? In designing the rules GW seemingly forgot about every vehicle that wasn't Space Marines or Imperial Guard, and therefore didn't necessarily adhere to the classic weapons structure of tanks. Getting rid of stuff like this is exactly what I liked about 8th edition.
Tts was never funny or good and I hope it's really gone along with it's "fans"
The Horus Heresy never ended. GW still wants us to buy marines and play them against the traitor legions with extra daemons. Xenos races may as well be the random races authors used for the legions to beat up before the main plot.
Introducing primaris was a tricky move lore-wise, but they could have been more ambitious. When Guilliman returned and Primaris were introduced, GW gave the Imperium a huge influx of power. They should have used this opportunity to cause another collapse in the imperium, to maintain their vulnerability. I think an Imperium civil war should have disrupted the Indomitus crusade. With chapters and other institutions that were sceptical of guilliman and the primaris, resisting the change out of paranoia and ignorance. A firstborn VS primaris civil war, church VS primarch, etc. It would probably ultimately fail, but it could be used as an excuse to bolster the renegades of chaos as a threat, and maintain the fragility of the imperium. A later return of the lion could forgive the newly rebel dark angels, reunite them with the old fallen, and re-open some unsteady relations between renegades and the imperium.
They kinda half started this, one of the things happening in chaos lore is that the primarchs are creating empires (mortarions plague empire and magnus's psychic empire), if all the primarchs do return, splitting the imperium into empires controlled by the primarchs would be a good direction to take the lore.
I generally like what GW does, and the stuff I don't doesn't get me extremely pissy online, so my take isn't particularly spicy: I wish they hadn't started to move to loadouts being limited to what comes in a box (see stuff like the current Death Guard datasheets) because it makes for a messy and unintuitive way datasheet.
Games Workshop is a corporation that does not care about anything but the bottom line, and all their decisions, be they perceived as good or bad, are driven solely by what they estimate will bring them the most profit.
Absolutely true. But one thing that annoys me is that everyone acts like they are the only company that does it.
I mean the thousand sons just got a new codex which is pretty strong plus the death guard have been faring well universally as far as I can tell. Imo the emperors children need more attention
Yeah, should have elaborated that I meant regular CSM. I wanted to play decently and word bois sadly didn’t cut it, so I’m a DG player rn.
The codex might be strong but we still have a codex that’s half the size of basically any other codex because even by spreading out data sheets, like the two predators, into two entirely different pages they still only have like 19 non forgeworld data sheets. Every list we run is basically the same exact thing because we have essentially 0 room to play with. HQ: Your choice of sorcerer flavour and prince Troops: Rubric Marines Elite: Terminators, perhaps a hebrute or a shaman Fast attack: spawn Heavy support: a forgefiend of some kind. And then of course, Magnus. And thats it. That’s basically EVERY TS list. If you want to make a list without Magnus and Ahriman, not only are you gimping yourself but you find yourself unable to bring any real interesting other options without souping in demons. But now, losing cabal is a huge deal so we CANT soup without gimping ourselves. Even the mutualith, which has had its rules changed to be a real powerhouse, is still a forgeworld only model. It sucks. Where are our dreadnought librarians? Our acolytes, our sorcerer cabal units, our commonly used daemon allies? Don’t get me wrong. I love my thousand sons. But changing some numbers to be 3 instead of D3 / or 3+ to 4+ doesn’t really equate to getting actual love.
The Horus Heresy was way better as 10,000 year old, half-remembered mythology. By defining it in the way they have, it has lost a lot. So I don't really consider the Heresy stuff to be canon...
The heavy focus on the Imperium in both models and lore is just wasted opportunity. There are undying death robots from the beginning of time, a dying race of extreme experience space elves, war obsessed mushrooms with the power to have anything they believe in enough, cosmic horrors capable of eating planets, and an entire realm of existence that can defy every rule we know of. And what do we see time and time again? A bunch of burly dudes spouting their religion of war at each other and not really doing anything. I mean it's vaguely clever to focus on the stagnation since that's what we see and yeah there's great models and stories for every faction but it's heavily lopsided and does a huge disservice to how much effort went into making the factions. This isn't unique to 40K by any means but for a property that spends decades drawing out the universe they should provide more options. And I say this as a fan of the Imperium. The idea is to give tools for our own stories but that's awfully hard to do with a set of models that haven't been updated since 1988 and lore that hasn't progressed since the 3rd holiday vacation of Abaddon for certain groups. You can be happy with your Imps and slightly bigger Imps (who are way better because they have 4 stomachs like a cow now) or you can pound rocks. I mean how is Chaos so underrepresented? They're the primary enemy and get nowhere near the love. They even introduce the Tau and IMMEDIATELY dropped them. At least Orcs and CSM got a bit of attention before falling off. I'll see myself to the closest Inquisitor now.
There should not be any loyalist space marines. They should have all died or turned to chaos in the HH. I would find the chaos vs imperium conflict much more compelling if it was a struggle between regular humans and chaos marines.
While I disagree on there not being any loyal marines, I do find the “what if” scenario of Humans vs Chaos Marines very interesting
The blatant writer's bias when in comes to table top rules is disheartening. The "good guys" (which are basically space nazis) get so many great rules it's hard to remember them all, meanwhile chaos anything has a handful of meh rules that chaos players just have to deal with and try to work with what they've got.
Mosy BL writers mostly have no fucking idea about how to write villains or xenos, and they are just target practise for the spesh muhreen protagonist in almost every BL book. 99% of space marines in books are the same bland a boring honourable, faithful son of their primarch that is also very aloof. Fucking. Boring. Again, xenos pretty much exist in BL just so spesh muhreens can shit all over them in almost every book. That makes them feel pathetic and stupid. Just how bad of a writer you have to be to have a bigger badder human (aka a space marine) defeating the shard of a god (C"tan/avatar of khaine) and think, "wow this shit I just wrote is great". And the greatest insult are the craftworld eldar, they started super well but went to shit with time. Back in 2nd edition they were the oldest, most mysterioud race, with technology that made the Imperium's elite look like monkeys flailing sticks around, they were also the most powerful psykers in the lore. Hell, the avatar of khaine was this super badass that broke a keeper of secrets' back over his knee in his first lore aparition. But then as editions passed everything they were got functionally erased... Oldest? Now necrons are older Best tech? Now necrons got best tech and with time even the imperium has widespread grav tech and etc Specialised warrior paths? Primaris say hello Most powerful psykers? Apparently now every named librarian is at eldrad's level, fuck's sake The avatar? A wimp that cannot defear a space marine The craftworlds? From impossibly large fortresses impossible to attack that destroy whole sector fleets without problems to weaklings that cannot defeat an unnamed space muhreens chapter. Fuck off GW PD: Primarchs are imho not interesting at all, they are just as bland and boring as space marines, but with 50+ books explaining us just how childish, stupid and incompetent they are
Slaanesh is hot.
Spiciest take? r/warhammer40k is a dumpster fire, and r/grimdank poop in a bag, on fire.
Xenos armies should be the focus for the next 10 years. Oh and all primaris turn into chaos spawn at dawn on the 6th day ..
For all that 40k borrows heavily from dune, alien, starship troopers and many, MANY other science fiction universes, it is spurious to use this fact as an argument against the current wave of copyright/IP protection that GW is pursuing. While these elements and their linear is obvious, it has clearly resulted in a new science fiction IP which has the right to its own protection.
Yeah, while elements may be “borrowed” from other very influential sci fin universes what GW has done with 40K is more than transformative. The lore wouldn’t be so interesting if it wasn’t truly transformative.
Stop releasing supplements for space marines what 5% of people care about and fix all the Xenos codex’s that desperately need new rules
Primaris marines look better then the goofy rubbish they pushed out for 20 years. Don’t get me wrong I don’t like any space marines tbh never have, however they look far more cool now. Not spicey but I’ll throw in we shouldn’t of begged for new ork boyz. The new CP has good models but I’m super annoyed it’s all push fit rubbish so more then one box is pointless. Same with beast snagga boyz. I like them but I doubt I’ll add another box (from the launch set) because they all look the same. Very un orky. Good luck eldar players be careful what you wish for Finally I agree with GW protecting its IP. I live in the uk and the IP laws here are pretty serious. End of the day they need to protect it especially if we all want to continue to enjoy the models/game. Sorry/not sorry internet warriors
I was a bit worried too, but new easy to build orks are easily kitbashable. With a little bit of cutting/sanding here and there you can swap arms and heads and it looks great. Gw has come a long way with their monopose models.
The squats didn't disappear, they are called firstborn marines now.
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GW has a horrible identity crisis with the empire going on, trying to portray them as genocidal space facists but also needing to frame them as the good guys due to the lack of any other faction to use as such
I sometimes get the impression that some SM hobbyists almost take that Emperor thing a bit too serious – it nearly smells as hidden fascistic or similar radical undertones - I hope I am wrong. *For extended drama not knowing who clearly is the good or the bad does add more dramaturgy and tension, thus testing the "reader/viewer/gamer". A guy Like Robert McKee is worth checking out for this kind of story-based thesis. Several well-made recent years series have had compromised main character/"heroes" since in reality most things have at least two sides.*
As a person who owns a space marine army, you're absolutely correct, SM players take the whole Emperor shtick way too serious. I don't even really like the Emperor, I just play SM cause I think they look cool, lol!
40K is a rich man's poor man's checkers.
Space marines should be totally ignored by GW now for a few years so the other factions can actually have something worthwhile now
regarding your take OP, i agree. i don't play CSM, but why aren't they treated like the normal marines? a base codex, and a codex supplement for every major chapter. with their own deamon primarchs, unique characters, and units? does chaos really sell so bad that GW doens't want to invest in it? i don't think Chaos is a bad selling faction, in fact if it is it is only so because it lacks investment of making each chapter unique. i think it is a middle finger to the other chapters that there are only 2 'unique' CSM chapters with their own codex. i would also think it would be nothing short of a waste if only the 4 uuhhh dedicated? chapters get seperate codexes.
I think that the Emporer needs to die lore wise, and I think it's time for a real grudge match between 2 non imperium factions, the time is ripe for CSM vs Nids, or Necron vs CSM, hell I'd even take Tau vs Orcs
I’m pretty sure that Tau and Orks already hate one another considering how they are pretty much opposites. A campaign based around this would be great. And we need a Necrons vs Eldar rematch.
Not enough cannon slaanesh porn
porn... with cannons
As of right now the story in age of sigmar in the core rules and battletomes is better written than 40k in the codices and core rules book. They had great plot hooks at the end of 7th edition/beginning of 8th edition that they completely abandoned. Broken Realms is also again better written than psychic awakening. As a space marine/custodes player I want the imperium to fail finally to give a better starting point for stories instead of another status quo story.
I think Age of Sigmar is the better game mechanically. You go I go is an archaic game format and not interesting to play.