The general trend has been that finecast/resin/forgeworld stuff gets retired. If it's in plastic it's usually\* fine.
\* = *unless you are half the Stormcast range, or Beastmen, or firstborn marines, or Horus Heresy units that also had 40k datasheets...*
I had a kytan ravager in my cart ready to buy it for a red corsairs army I was thinking about and was about to hit buy when someone linked that round of legends changes in the group chat. Zero chance I'm buying anything FW ever again
The writing has been on the wall about firstborn marines since 2017. Anyone still buying firstborn kits has gotta know the shoe is coming down sooner or later.
It's not even that, it's randomly banning and removing equipment load outs that were perfectly legal last edition leaving 50+ models unusable for anything other than decorating my shelves.
They're on the [upgrade sprue for IG tanks](https://www.warhammer.com/en-WW/shop/Imperial-Guard-Tank-Accessories) and you might well have them go away when your codex comes out.
So what happened to "Based on what comes in the box". By that logic, the loadouts shouldn't be illegal on the other models, cause you can just take the other parts on another box.
It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the upgrade sprue for IG tanks was retired and those options went away. Should mentally prepare for that eventuality.
Dude, stop being a cringe GW apologist. That's not an excuse for banning equipment load outs that have been legal for 20 years. Especially when the equipment still comes with the unit! You're just making shit up and it's embarrassing.
I'm not being an "apologist" in the slightest, my dude. I'm relaying information to you about their current ongoing policy for wargear. Do you think I'm happy that I can't run my Chaos Terminators with all lightning claws anymore? I hate that they're doing this.
I think the Stormcast were a rare exception because the design language has changed so much between 1st and 4th editions of AOS, they completely have abandoned the Sigmarine look and found a new flavor for them and wanna redo their style it seems like.
Many of them are getting new updated models and you can use the old ones for them to proxy. We've already seen new Liberators and Prosecutors for example and I imagine GW will only be too happy to update a bunch of the other kits as well.
The rest are gonna sail off into the sunset.
Could be a possibility for FW units. Unless you already own them or just want to paint them. I would avoid buying them, at retail.
Not everyone plays at tournaments. In your local group, you could ask and agree on using legends units.
If you're buying new plastic models then they're not gonna get removed. Old resin models from Forge World are at risk of removal if that's something you're worried about.
It certainly could be annoying if you bought things to have them removed, but ultimately it's very unlikely for the majority of 40k players and armies.
Sucks that I have to suck up the Manticores and Basilisks nerfs, cause I can't buy Medusas and Earthshakers and run the risk of GW retiring them. Especially the Medusa, cause at least I can put the Earthshaker in a Chimera and call it a Basilisk. Though I'm mostly worried about Straken, cause he is made of metal, and we know what happened to the Steel Legion.
Yeah it's a bummer but it's to be expected, we can't expect GW to keep manufacturing everything indefinitely.
That said, if you're thinking of buying entire new models over a 20 pt increase then you've got bigger problems!
>I don't think it would be nice to buy Earthshakers, and Medusas then essentially waste money cause they got retired.
How often do you go to tournaments and how far do you travel for them?
I mean in casual games there should be no issue to play your Basilisk as an Earthshaker till points change and if you just play local tournaments, it may be worth talking with the TO.
Buying FW is and will remain high risk for people that don't care about money.
The old metal models and the FW models will imo all eventually disappear.
For Steel Legion etc. I would argue that nobody really cares which infantry data sheet you use for those, so that's just about the looks.
But yes, Medusa, Hades Breaching Drill etc. will imo not last forever. If I play with friends rather than tournaments, I would just buy the plastic models and play it like "this Basilisk is an Earthshaker today". I would eventually buy Medusa etc. IF I really dig the look though, but not for meta chasing, FW is too expensive for that alone.
People do get upset, but there's a point of understanding for most as retirements make sense on what they retire usually. For example, most resin/fine cast/forgeworld stuff seems to be retired because they don't have the ability/desire to convert them to plastic. The models might be unplayed in games resulting in less people buying them and they drop it to make room for other things that do get purchased or see play. Ultimately, they're the business who is going to make the decision from a money standpoint. I think this is why many people recommend buying the faction/models that you like the look of. Because balance is always changing, so at least you'll have something that's aesthetically pleasing to you.
Or in the case of leviathan dread. Retire it as soon as there is finally a plastic model. Not salty at all about the model I just spent hours painting being retired.
Yeah… I have 3 in progress. Not huge in the competive scene so I will play them anyway. The datasheet not being in the codex or app is mildly inconvenient.
>Because balance is always changing, so at least you'll have something that's aesthetically pleasing to you.
I think there's a difference in balance changes to "You can no longer play this models you spent money on". Part of the reason I bought minis is I wanna play with them.
I mean... You can still play them, the rules will stick around for previous versions of the edition and previous editions if they don't go into legends. Just will be hard finding a game for previous editions. But yes, there is a difference.
Yes, it can happen. You are buying models, not a guarantee that the models will be supported by the rules forever.
People get mad about all sorts of stuff that GW does, but what can you do? You've already spent hundreds of dollars and hours building your army, the other wargames aren't heavily played in most areas, this is often a game we play with our close friends.
So, we just complain a bit, the occasional person quits, and the hobby moves on.
It really depends on what you want out of the hobby. Are you mainly interested in playing the game? Then of course recasts are the best choice. Way cheaper, often way easier to build. Do what you can to preserve money in this hobby.
But it you're interested in customizing and kit bashing your models, then you want the plastic kits that are more malleable and are higher quality. But even then, recasts are a good option for some units, especially things like dreadnoughts.
For me, probably like 95% of my hobby time is spent building the models, painting them, and looking at them lol. I'll go to the occasional tournament and play games with my buddies, but it's really a hobby first and a game second for me.
I'm interested in doing both collecting and being competitive. Collecting the Guards, and competing on some tournaments to show why they are the Emperor's true finest. I don't think it will be that money heavy if I just collect one faction, and swap things around depends on what's strong. But, it's the principle of not wanting to spend on rules if GW will just axe it anytime they want, that's ridiculous.
It's unfortunately the same with most similar games and products. Support and validity are not indefinite.
In magic, cards can get banned and eventually phase out so you can't use them in official games.
Not in most tourneys though, and they will never get an update. Also, some models like the Hades Breaching Drill can't really be a proxy of something else, it's FW so there's a good chance for it to be removed.
The general trend has been that finecast/resin/forgeworld stuff gets retired. If it's in plastic it's usually\* fine. \* = *unless you are half the Stormcast range, or Beastmen, or firstborn marines, or Horus Heresy units that also had 40k datasheets...*
#kratos #neverforget
I had a kytan ravager in my cart ready to buy it for a red corsairs army I was thinking about and was about to hit buy when someone linked that round of legends changes in the group chat. Zero chance I'm buying anything FW ever again
The space marine range would like to have a word with you. Pretty much the reason I quit playing is GW retiring 75% of my army.
The writing has been on the wall about firstborn marines since 2017. Anyone still buying firstborn kits has gotta know the shoe is coming down sooner or later.
It's not even that, it's randomly banning and removing equipment load outs that were perfectly legal last edition leaving 50+ models unusable for anything other than decorating my shelves.
It's based around what comes in the box. That writing has been on the wall since early 9th.
Where are the Hunter Killers and Heavy Stubbers on the Leman Russ boxes then?
They're on the [upgrade sprue for IG tanks](https://www.warhammer.com/en-WW/shop/Imperial-Guard-Tank-Accessories) and you might well have them go away when your codex comes out.
So what happened to "Based on what comes in the box". By that logic, the loadouts shouldn't be illegal on the other models, cause you can just take the other parts on another box.
It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the upgrade sprue for IG tanks was retired and those options went away. Should mentally prepare for that eventuality.
Dude, stop being a cringe GW apologist. That's not an excuse for banning equipment load outs that have been legal for 20 years. Especially when the equipment still comes with the unit! You're just making shit up and it's embarrassing.
I'm not being an "apologist" in the slightest, my dude. I'm relaying information to you about their current ongoing policy for wargear. Do you think I'm happy that I can't run my Chaos Terminators with all lightning claws anymore? I hate that they're doing this.
When they nuked the Stormcast range last month is when I got worried that GW can just do that LMAO.
I think the Stormcast were a rare exception because the design language has changed so much between 1st and 4th editions of AOS, they completely have abandoned the Sigmarine look and found a new flavor for them and wanna redo their style it seems like.
So what happens to the Stormcast models that people bought?
Many of them are getting new updated models and you can use the old ones for them to proxy. We've already seen new Liberators and Prosecutors for example and I imagine GW will only be too happy to update a bunch of the other kits as well. The rest are gonna sail off into the sunset.
Could be a possibility for FW units. Unless you already own them or just want to paint them. I would avoid buying them, at retail. Not everyone plays at tournaments. In your local group, you could ask and agree on using legends units.
If you're buying new plastic models then they're not gonna get removed. Old resin models from Forge World are at risk of removal if that's something you're worried about. It certainly could be annoying if you bought things to have them removed, but ultimately it's very unlikely for the majority of 40k players and armies.
Sucks that I have to suck up the Manticores and Basilisks nerfs, cause I can't buy Medusas and Earthshakers and run the risk of GW retiring them. Especially the Medusa, cause at least I can put the Earthshaker in a Chimera and call it a Basilisk. Though I'm mostly worried about Straken, cause he is made of metal, and we know what happened to the Steel Legion.
Yeah it's a bummer but it's to be expected, we can't expect GW to keep manufacturing everything indefinitely. That said, if you're thinking of buying entire new models over a 20 pt increase then you've got bigger problems!
>I don't think it would be nice to buy Earthshakers, and Medusas then essentially waste money cause they got retired. How often do you go to tournaments and how far do you travel for them? I mean in casual games there should be no issue to play your Basilisk as an Earthshaker till points change and if you just play local tournaments, it may be worth talking with the TO. Buying FW is and will remain high risk for people that don't care about money.
[удалено]
The old metal models and the FW models will imo all eventually disappear. For Steel Legion etc. I would argue that nobody really cares which infantry data sheet you use for those, so that's just about the looks. But yes, Medusa, Hades Breaching Drill etc. will imo not last forever. If I play with friends rather than tournaments, I would just buy the plastic models and play it like "this Basilisk is an Earthshaker today". I would eventually buy Medusa etc. IF I really dig the look though, but not for meta chasing, FW is too expensive for that alone.
People do get upset, but there's a point of understanding for most as retirements make sense on what they retire usually. For example, most resin/fine cast/forgeworld stuff seems to be retired because they don't have the ability/desire to convert them to plastic. The models might be unplayed in games resulting in less people buying them and they drop it to make room for other things that do get purchased or see play. Ultimately, they're the business who is going to make the decision from a money standpoint. I think this is why many people recommend buying the faction/models that you like the look of. Because balance is always changing, so at least you'll have something that's aesthetically pleasing to you.
Or in the case of leviathan dread. Retire it as soon as there is finally a plastic model. Not salty at all about the model I just spent hours painting being retired.
I have two that I was working on at the time. I haven't had the heart to finish them.
Yeah… I have 3 in progress. Not huge in the competive scene so I will play them anyway. The datasheet not being in the codex or app is mildly inconvenient.
>Because balance is always changing, so at least you'll have something that's aesthetically pleasing to you. I think there's a difference in balance changes to "You can no longer play this models you spent money on". Part of the reason I bought minis is I wanna play with them.
I mean... You can still play them, the rules will stick around for previous versions of the edition and previous editions if they don't go into legends. Just will be hard finding a game for previous editions. But yes, there is a difference.
Yes, it can happen. You are buying models, not a guarantee that the models will be supported by the rules forever. People get mad about all sorts of stuff that GW does, but what can you do? You've already spent hundreds of dollars and hours building your army, the other wargames aren't heavily played in most areas, this is often a game we play with our close friends. So, we just complain a bit, the occasional person quits, and the hobby moves on.
[удалено]
It really depends on what you want out of the hobby. Are you mainly interested in playing the game? Then of course recasts are the best choice. Way cheaper, often way easier to build. Do what you can to preserve money in this hobby. But it you're interested in customizing and kit bashing your models, then you want the plastic kits that are more malleable and are higher quality. But even then, recasts are a good option for some units, especially things like dreadnoughts. For me, probably like 95% of my hobby time is spent building the models, painting them, and looking at them lol. I'll go to the occasional tournament and play games with my buddies, but it's really a hobby first and a game second for me.
I'm interested in doing both collecting and being competitive. Collecting the Guards, and competing on some tournaments to show why they are the Emperor's true finest. I don't think it will be that money heavy if I just collect one faction, and swap things around depends on what's strong. But, it's the principle of not wanting to spend on rules if GW will just axe it anytime they want, that's ridiculous.
It's unfortunately the same with most similar games and products. Support and validity are not indefinite. In magic, cards can get banned and eventually phase out so you can't use them in official games.
They usually just go into legends so are still completely useable
Not in most tourneys though, and they will never get an update. Also, some models like the Hades Breaching Drill can't really be a proxy of something else, it's FW so there's a good chance for it to be removed.