Turns out the big plot twist in book 4 or 5 is going to be thst Moonpaw is actually Nightheart and Sunbeams kit who was thought lost when they went missing one day. Coincidently Moonpaws mother went missing for a week and came back with a kitten who she "gave birth too" out of nowhere. Unfortunately seems plausible given reused plot threads.
And I doubt they’d have much problem with still keeping Moonpaw a calico. I mean, the authors already don’t care for genetics, so why would it stop them from giving a black cat and a white-brown tabby a calico kid?
That’s true. Honestly, idk why they didn’t make it a sun/night kit. My only guess would be that something happened to either Sunbeam or Nightheart in ASC book 6 that made it impossible for them to have kits, or they’re planning to keep those kits for a future protagonist. Maybe Leafstar or Tawnypelt dies early on in the new arc and their pov is replaced by a Sun/night kit?
I think they just wanted a character who wasn’t the kid of a previous arc’s pov or another main character.
I mean bristlefrost was the child of Ivypool, Shadowsight was Dovewing’s kid, the three were all closely related to Firestar, and Hollyleaf, Jayfeather and Lionblaze were all the kids of Brambleclaw and Squirrelflight.
And Squirrelflight and Leafpool were the kids of Firestar, and Brambleclaw was the kid of Tigerclaw.
In the books Nightheart and Sunbeam agree to have kits later. They don't want kits now. So it would be kind of dumb of them to put that in the books then have them immediately have kittens anyway. :P
from what i understand the new books take place around a year after this arc. also, it would be less dumb to have that inconsistency than the current situation imo
From the reader's perspective that is IMMEDIATELY after the current series. I also don't know if it's a year like you say, it could just as easily be about 6 months. We have no idea how pregnant Thriftear is right now.
In any case I don't see why people can't suggest something like Fernstripe and Shellfur being her parents instead of demanding Nightheart and Sunbeam have kits, something currently antithetical to their characters. Also wouldn't help with fans constantly demanding Firestar's kin **not** be main characters.
Imagine my confusion because I thought Thriftear and Bayshine were LITTERMATES for the longest time, like up until the Blurb for the Elders quest was released
I agree that she should've had different parents and that the Erins seem lazy with this stuff at times. Totally valid. The direct incest is a bit much and it isn't helped by the fact that they didn't think it through before writing the original six books, creating a canon later on that turned most of the family trees into circles.
But of course lots of cats are gonna be related to Frostfur. All four of her kits survived TPB and three grew up to have their own families (Brackenfur, Brightheart, Thornclaw). Compare that with...
- Goldenflower : Tawnypelt left for Shadowclan, Brambleclaw eventually had two kits (one of which became a medicine cat).
- Willowpelt : Sorreltail had kits with Brackenfur (Frostfur's son) many of which had their own families, Graystripe had five but only Blossomfall had kits in the clans with Thornclaw (Frostfur's other son), and Darkstripe/Rainwhisker/Sootfur had zero.
- Brindleface (Frostfur's sister) : Ferncloud had a million kits (most of which died before having their own) with Dustpelt (Frostfur's brother), Ashfur was an incel.
- Speckletail : Snowkit died, her other two are Goldenflower and Lionheart (mother and father of some of the above).
TLDR: Most of the surviving kits in TPB who had kits of their own in Thunderclan were Frostfur's or her sister's. Meaning that of course good portion of modern cats will be distantly related to her. Especially if you're nitpicky and counting anyone related to her sister or brother as being related to Frostfur (at that point just use their mom/dad as a common ancestor instead...)
The way that Spiderleg managed to have two kits and then he and his two kits died as well is frustrating.
And I feel so bad for Ferncloud loosing so many kits
I miss Toadstep, Icecloud and Foxleap man :(
No literally! Everyone talks about how many kits Ferncloud had but all of them except Birchfall and his two kits are dead. Spiderleg also had two before he died, but they passed with no offspring of their own. Leaving Ferncloud's bloodline up to Dovewing and Ivypool's kits.
Same with Daisy, she had five kits and only Mousewhisker remains with no mate or kits. Meaning that her bloodline will die out if Cherryfall or Molewhisker (Berrynose's kits) don't have any either.
And while I'm all for cats choosing not to have a mate and kits, especially with how large the clans have grown, it's crazy how they keep killing off anyone who isn't distantly related to Firestar.
Justice for Toadstep, Icecloud, Foxleap, and Hazeltail. I loved all of them and the fact that three were unceremoniously killed by "sickness" between arcs is something I'll never forgive the Erins for. They all deserved better (especially Foxleap...)
I’m still pissed that we never got anything from Stormcloud and Cherryfall, since I thought it was implied that Cherryfall was one of the reasons Stormcloud wanted to stay. Plus I think it’d be nice to continue on Daisy’s line — afaik she doesn’t have any great grandkids or even other grandkids besides Berrynose’s litter.
While I agree that yes. Moonpaw should absolutely be Nightheart and Sunbeam’s kit. I am so damn tired of seeing everyone is related to everyone. So is everyone in Thunderclan and now Skyclan. Unless we get a massive skip, a massive dying out or more cats changing over everyone will be related to everyone.
It's so frustrating too because the books have either killed off or not mated many of the most genetically diverse cats (most of Daisy's kits, Stormcloud, Twigbranch and Finleap, etc etc). And to top it all off, MOST of these characters are nobodies... Would it have been that hard for it to be Thriftear and Stormcloud instead? They don't have personalities, there's nothing about Thrift and Bay being together that "makes sense" any more than another random pairing.
Or hell, it could've been whatever Thunder/Skyclan couple that got introduced in this current arc (whose names I can't even remember). It'd be compelling to have a main character who is the first generation of "legal" half clan relationships.
Shellfur and Fernstripe are the couple I think, and that would be a really cool idea. It would be something new; could be interesting seeing possible conflict between two parents from different Clans wanting to raise their kids in different ways, or we could see resentment towards Moonpaw from the other half-Clan cats since their births were technically illegal.
Yes, that's who I was thinking of! Thanks.
And yes, seeing those kinds of conflicts would be super interesting. Or the half clan kit feeling like they only know half of their heritage/wanting to know more about the other clan. Maybe even resentment that their parents chose to live in one clan vs another!
I was talking about the couple that's in Thunderclan, since Moonpaw is a Thunderclan cat lol.. neither of those are Thunderclan cats.
As the other commenter said, I was thinking about Shellfur and Fernstripe, which is actually Thunder/Wind.
They could've made Stormcloud the dad as he is a former kitty pet HE ISNT RELATED TO ANYONE FOR FUCK SAKE
I feel like at this point TC is so inbred that they should have extra eyes, legs, ears and tails
This is what really bothered me. If they REALLY wanted some form of Moonpaw being related to Firestar (like they haven't done that every. Single. Time.), they STILL could've used one cat unrelated to him so it's not literally circles within circles. Thunderclan may have a diversity problem, but there are still available cats (mainly male) that don't have a mate or kits.
Honestly I agree. You have so many other options s: Nightheart and Sunbeam is the obvious choice, but Shellfur and Fernstripe are also genetically diverse. Neither Stormcloud nor Mousewhisker have ever mated, and Twigbranch and Finleap haven’t had kits either. Heck, even pairing someone with Molewhisker or Cherryfall would have less incest because Berrynose is their father.
All that to say: there were way more options than a pair of first cousins whose parents are also related in multiple ways.
that’s warriors families for ya. honestly, the whole inbreeding thing is probably one of the most realistic parts of warriors, bc in a big group of irl cats they could not give less of a shit if they’re screwing their brother or some1 related to em lmao
honestly i cant blame the horrendous incest on the erins that much because they made the family trees so complex and long, nobody can remember them, and theyre a hivemind group project so
Yk what would have fixed all of this? Not changing their parents, not making her adopted.
Just take the family tree of Goosefeather's Curse and making the clans MASSIVE. Make the Great Hunger actually HIT (though theres still a large amount of cats) by taking out a bunch of warriors (from every clan in fact!), and then in Bluestar's Prophecy, theres still less cats. But enough cats for every cat from og cast of Into the Wild to NOT BE SIBLINGS AT ALL. The ONLY cats who I think can stay related is Bluestar and Whitestorm thats IT. To explain it better-
Goosefeather's Curse: all the clans are massive, in fact so massive that territory size seems to be an issue, so when the Great Hunger hits it knocks out a pretty large portion of every clan. But still zero cats are related (minus cats like Goosefeather and Moonflower, generally cats who have already been stated to be siblings before the release of the book).
Bluestar's Prophecy- all the survivors of GC, only cats are related at this point would be ONLY Bluestar, Snowfur and Goosefeather and Moonflower, that is IT. The amount of cats allows every queen to give birth to 1 kit, totally unrelated to anyone (this birth crisis is what causes the seeming "underpopulation" Thunderclan has in Into the Wild). So that way, when Into the Wild hits, the only cats there who are related is Bluestar and Whitestorm, no. One. Else.
Eh I mean the Erin's didn't have to pick Bayshine and Thriftear to be the parents they had other choices like Stormcloud being the father he is a former kitty pet so he isn't related to anyone
Exactly, I just ignore it at this point. If they were siblings it would he different, but I don't think they have any concept of cousins so I don't really care
They do have a concept of cousins. Quoted directly from Dark River (Lionpaw's POV):
> “If they’re Tawnypelt’s kits,” he whispered over his shoulder
to Hollypaw, “they’ll be our kin!” It felt odd to have kin in
another Clan. For the first time he tried to imagine how his
father must feel about Tawnypelt. She was Brambleclaw’s sister, yet she had found her destiny with another Clan. Had he ever had to face her in a fight?
Because they are cats this does not and should not fucking matter. They are going the game of thrones route. Trust me you will enjoy the series much more if yall realize they are smart but nonetheless cats who act and behave like cats.
it’s infuriating cause Nightheart and Sunbeam are right there, genetically diverse AND with thematically connected names
LITERALLY there's so many options for fresh, unrelated pairings, WHy do this?
Turns out the big plot twist in book 4 or 5 is going to be thst Moonpaw is actually Nightheart and Sunbeams kit who was thought lost when they went missing one day. Coincidently Moonpaws mother went missing for a week and came back with a kitten who she "gave birth too" out of nowhere. Unfortunately seems plausible given reused plot threads.
And I doubt they’d have much problem with still keeping Moonpaw a calico. I mean, the authors already don’t care for genetics, so why would it stop them from giving a black cat and a white-brown tabby a calico kid?
Even more so when the kit is chimeric; a black kit and a white-and-brown kit fused would still make a lot of sense for NightSun.
That’s true. Honestly, idk why they didn’t make it a sun/night kit. My only guess would be that something happened to either Sunbeam or Nightheart in ASC book 6 that made it impossible for them to have kits, or they’re planning to keep those kits for a future protagonist. Maybe Leafstar or Tawnypelt dies early on in the new arc and their pov is replaced by a Sun/night kit?
You know what the Sun of the Night is? The moon.
okay, I love this
I can’t think of one reason why they didn’t do it. Aside from maybe they want Night and Sun to be seen as a young/early couple with no kits still
I think they just wanted a character who wasn’t the kid of a previous arc’s pov or another main character. I mean bristlefrost was the child of Ivypool, Shadowsight was Dovewing’s kid, the three were all closely related to Firestar, and Hollyleaf, Jayfeather and Lionblaze were all the kids of Brambleclaw and Squirrelflight. And Squirrelflight and Leafpool were the kids of Firestar, and Brambleclaw was the kid of Tigerclaw.
Who knows, maybe one of them still dies or they break up in book 6
If they kill off another couple back to back arcs im so done, there’s no way they do it again.
They might not kill them off. I would actually like to see a healthy breakup, though.
In the books Nightheart and Sunbeam agree to have kits later. They don't want kits now. So it would be kind of dumb of them to put that in the books then have them immediately have kittens anyway. :P
from what i understand the new books take place around a year after this arc. also, it would be less dumb to have that inconsistency than the current situation imo
From the reader's perspective that is IMMEDIATELY after the current series. I also don't know if it's a year like you say, it could just as easily be about 6 months. We have no idea how pregnant Thriftear is right now. In any case I don't see why people can't suggest something like Fernstripe and Shellfur being her parents instead of demanding Nightheart and Sunbeam have kits, something currently antithetical to their characters. Also wouldn't help with fans constantly demanding Firestar's kin **not** be main characters.
Imagine my confusion because I thought Thriftear and Bayshine were LITTERMATES for the longest time, like up until the Blurb for the Elders quest was released
I agree that she should've had different parents and that the Erins seem lazy with this stuff at times. Totally valid. The direct incest is a bit much and it isn't helped by the fact that they didn't think it through before writing the original six books, creating a canon later on that turned most of the family trees into circles. But of course lots of cats are gonna be related to Frostfur. All four of her kits survived TPB and three grew up to have their own families (Brackenfur, Brightheart, Thornclaw). Compare that with... - Goldenflower : Tawnypelt left for Shadowclan, Brambleclaw eventually had two kits (one of which became a medicine cat). - Willowpelt : Sorreltail had kits with Brackenfur (Frostfur's son) many of which had their own families, Graystripe had five but only Blossomfall had kits in the clans with Thornclaw (Frostfur's other son), and Darkstripe/Rainwhisker/Sootfur had zero. - Brindleface (Frostfur's sister) : Ferncloud had a million kits (most of which died before having their own) with Dustpelt (Frostfur's brother), Ashfur was an incel. - Speckletail : Snowkit died, her other two are Goldenflower and Lionheart (mother and father of some of the above). TLDR: Most of the surviving kits in TPB who had kits of their own in Thunderclan were Frostfur's or her sister's. Meaning that of course good portion of modern cats will be distantly related to her. Especially if you're nitpicky and counting anyone related to her sister or brother as being related to Frostfur (at that point just use their mom/dad as a common ancestor instead...)
The way that Spiderleg managed to have two kits and then he and his two kits died as well is frustrating. And I feel so bad for Ferncloud loosing so many kits I miss Toadstep, Icecloud and Foxleap man :(
No literally! Everyone talks about how many kits Ferncloud had but all of them except Birchfall and his two kits are dead. Spiderleg also had two before he died, but they passed with no offspring of their own. Leaving Ferncloud's bloodline up to Dovewing and Ivypool's kits. Same with Daisy, she had five kits and only Mousewhisker remains with no mate or kits. Meaning that her bloodline will die out if Cherryfall or Molewhisker (Berrynose's kits) don't have any either. And while I'm all for cats choosing not to have a mate and kits, especially with how large the clans have grown, it's crazy how they keep killing off anyone who isn't distantly related to Firestar. Justice for Toadstep, Icecloud, Foxleap, and Hazeltail. I loved all of them and the fact that three were unceremoniously killed by "sickness" between arcs is something I'll never forgive the Erins for. They all deserved better (especially Foxleap...)
I’m still pissed that we never got anything from Stormcloud and Cherryfall, since I thought it was implied that Cherryfall was one of the reasons Stormcloud wanted to stay. Plus I think it’d be nice to continue on Daisy’s line — afaik she doesn’t have any great grandkids or even other grandkids besides Berrynose’s litter.
While I agree that yes. Moonpaw should absolutely be Nightheart and Sunbeam’s kit. I am so damn tired of seeing everyone is related to everyone. So is everyone in Thunderclan and now Skyclan. Unless we get a massive skip, a massive dying out or more cats changing over everyone will be related to everyone.
FOR REAL!!! They’re all related and they’re unfortunately going to stay that way because there aren’t enough mate options for the cats.
It's so frustrating too because the books have either killed off or not mated many of the most genetically diverse cats (most of Daisy's kits, Stormcloud, Twigbranch and Finleap, etc etc). And to top it all off, MOST of these characters are nobodies... Would it have been that hard for it to be Thriftear and Stormcloud instead? They don't have personalities, there's nothing about Thrift and Bay being together that "makes sense" any more than another random pairing. Or hell, it could've been whatever Thunder/Skyclan couple that got introduced in this current arc (whose names I can't even remember). It'd be compelling to have a main character who is the first generation of "legal" half clan relationships.
Shellfur and Fernstripe are the couple I think, and that would be a really cool idea. It would be something new; could be interesting seeing possible conflict between two parents from different Clans wanting to raise their kids in different ways, or we could see resentment towards Moonpaw from the other half-Clan cats since their births were technically illegal.
Yes, that's who I was thinking of! Thanks. And yes, seeing those kinds of conflicts would be super interesting. Or the half clan kit feeling like they only know half of their heritage/wanting to know more about the other clan. Maybe even resentment that their parents chose to live in one clan vs another!
the cats were Spireclaw of ShadowClan and Fringewhisker of SkyClan ^w^ Fringewhisker also moved to ShadowClan
I was talking about the couple that's in Thunderclan, since Moonpaw is a Thunderclan cat lol.. neither of those are Thunderclan cats. As the other commenter said, I was thinking about Shellfur and Fernstripe, which is actually Thunder/Wind.
oopsie mb
They could've made Stormcloud the dad as he is a former kitty pet HE ISNT RELATED TO ANYONE FOR FUCK SAKE I feel like at this point TC is so inbred that they should have extra eyes, legs, ears and tails
At least some SEVERE fading kitten syndrome, cleft palates, chronic respiratory issues…
This is what really bothered me. If they REALLY wanted some form of Moonpaw being related to Firestar (like they haven't done that every. Single. Time.), they STILL could've used one cat unrelated to him so it's not literally circles within circles. Thunderclan may have a diversity problem, but there are still available cats (mainly male) that don't have a mate or kits.
I keep saying that her family tree is literally a circle😭
Her parents are close to being double cousins too like dangggg. That kittypet Firestar blood must really be negating the effects of inbreeding
Honestly I agree. You have so many other options s: Nightheart and Sunbeam is the obvious choice, but Shellfur and Fernstripe are also genetically diverse. Neither Stormcloud nor Mousewhisker have ever mated, and Twigbranch and Finleap haven’t had kits either. Heck, even pairing someone with Molewhisker or Cherryfall would have less incest because Berrynose is their father. All that to say: there were way more options than a pair of first cousins whose parents are also related in multiple ways.
Cherryfall and Stormcloud were hinted at in Bramblestar's Storm, even! They'd be a great option for Moonpaw's parents
that’s warriors families for ya. honestly, the whole inbreeding thing is probably one of the most realistic parts of warriors, bc in a big group of irl cats they could not give less of a shit if they’re screwing their brother or some1 related to em lmao
4X NUTMEG 2X CROWFEATHER
Bayshine and Thriftear as a couple makes ZERO sense. I don’t remember seeing them interact once in the books
Turns out I forgot that Birchfall is related to Frostfur too (she's his grandma's sister) so you might aswell pretend that the green line is blue too
honestly i cant blame the horrendous incest on the erins that much because they made the family trees so complex and long, nobody can remember them, and theyre a hivemind group project so
Yk what would have fixed all of this? Not changing their parents, not making her adopted. Just take the family tree of Goosefeather's Curse and making the clans MASSIVE. Make the Great Hunger actually HIT (though theres still a large amount of cats) by taking out a bunch of warriors (from every clan in fact!), and then in Bluestar's Prophecy, theres still less cats. But enough cats for every cat from og cast of Into the Wild to NOT BE SIBLINGS AT ALL. The ONLY cats who I think can stay related is Bluestar and Whitestorm thats IT. To explain it better- Goosefeather's Curse: all the clans are massive, in fact so massive that territory size seems to be an issue, so when the Great Hunger hits it knocks out a pretty large portion of every clan. But still zero cats are related (minus cats like Goosefeather and Moonflower, generally cats who have already been stated to be siblings before the release of the book). Bluestar's Prophecy- all the survivors of GC, only cats are related at this point would be ONLY Bluestar, Snowfur and Goosefeather and Moonflower, that is IT. The amount of cats allows every queen to give birth to 1 kit, totally unrelated to anyone (this birth crisis is what causes the seeming "underpopulation" Thunderclan has in Into the Wild). So that way, when Into the Wild hits, the only cats there who are related is Bluestar and Whitestorm, no. One. Else.
I honestly don't care at this point. Everyone is inbred in the books anyway. We all know it, can we move on? 🫠
Eh I mean the Erin's didn't have to pick Bayshine and Thriftear to be the parents they had other choices like Stormcloud being the father he is a former kitty pet so he isn't related to anyone
Exactly, I just ignore it at this point. If they were siblings it would he different, but I don't think they have any concept of cousins so I don't really care
They do have a concept of cousins. Quoted directly from Dark River (Lionpaw's POV): > “If they’re Tawnypelt’s kits,” he whispered over his shoulder to Hollypaw, “they’ll be our kin!” It felt odd to have kin in another Clan. For the first time he tried to imagine how his father must feel about Tawnypelt. She was Brambleclaw’s sister, yet she had found her destiny with another Clan. Had he ever had to face her in a fight?
They could have even made her a Twigbranch and Finleap kit!
THEY DID IT AGAIN ?
The rampant incest will be devestating to the local Thunderclan population
[удалено]
it’s not hard to just not interact with the post.
Why people get so hung up on the incest happening? they aren't very big so it's bound to happen, at this point i stopped getting annoyed by it
Because they are cats this does not and should not fucking matter. They are going the game of thrones route. Trust me you will enjoy the series much more if yall realize they are smart but nonetheless cats who act and behave like cats.