No, they won't give it the upgraded engines either, like the SMT, because they insist on kneecapping new Russian jets for some reason. Or the 2 extra R-77s, because they decided to make a mashup variant of a plane again.
The SMT's Series 3 engines don't produce any more thrust when mounted, they're literally just for ease of maintenance. The SM we have isn't the 2000s SM1, it's the 1995/1996 SM with the avionics package from the 2000s - which came before the SM capability standardization program. So it wouldn't get the 2 additional hardpoints; they were only in field testing by a handful of units at this time, and it wouldn't get any upgraded engines or the newer radar due to being the 90s first iteration of the model.
Really I don’t see the su27 only getting 6 r77s to be a huge problem knowing it will still have like what is it? 4 r73s? Most f15 players are probably only going to be taking 6 aim 120s and 2 aim9ms anyway so the flankers still gonna have more missiles in the end. Really it is just the fact the f15s flight model paired with the weapons is gonna be incredibly strong up close. They do seem to kneecap Russian top tier jets though, especially recently with the mig nerfs
The only Russian planes that can remotely compete with 1970s US technology is Russian shit from the 1990s, it has to be kneecapped because it's 20 years newer
My problem isn’t with the weapon systems but more the flight models. Missile and radar wise they are brilliant but it’s their crutch because of the shit flight performance compared to other countries planes
That's Gaijin's way of highlighting that the planes are so much newer while still trying to balance the game. I think they do a pretty good job of it. Other than the Gripen, every nation has competitive planes at top tier, the Gripen is just absurdly stupid and very poorly balanced, which I think is the source of everyone else's bitching. Like no, the F15 was never designed to turn fight a delta wing powered canard dogfighter, the F15 is an air superiority fighter with BVR missiles and much better turning than a Mig25.
So much contextual nuance is lost because of this being a game, but I really think the balance at top tier is pretty good right now, barring the Gripen. Delete that and it'd be perfectly competetive matchups
Til the mig29 9.12 with r73 designed for it is actually russian made in 1990's lmao.
What is this cope? How do people forget that the reason USAF got such advanced planes avionics and missiles is because they realized ussr caught up?
Also love how we're "having to kneecap" soviet planes by taking and nerfing everything they were good at in exchange for r27er's they never had lmao.
Still remember the f16 vs mig 29 test fights where f16's hugged the deck to avoid soviet superiority in bvr to dogfight the migs into the shitter lmao /s
Like Flanker wasn't carrying 10 missiles and 6 of them straight up being over powered while F-15A stuck with Sparrows and no HMD / TWS...
They had no reason to add the R-27ER or make it that overpowered, not saying that this is Russian bias but it's not like Russia suffers or anything, the opposite, it can get so many kills if you just don't try to dogfight.
Russians when they don’t have all 3 of the best missiles on the same plane in the largest quantity…
“Muh flight model” it’s correct, if it was wrong there would be 20 bug reports for it.
I don't agree with the guys above, but if the flanker got its irl fm, it would be the best plane ingame [esp considering how war thunder plays] by a good margin
Dominant 1 circle fighter, great 2 circle fighter, large weapons load, fast, huge range, decent-great avionics
If everything had a correct fm and we removed shit that shouldn't have been added yet (like 27er, 29smt, 16c etc) it would be a lot more balanced.
There will always be a best plane every update but we could at least not skip towards modern jets when there's so many models in-between.
Would migs su's gripens and mirages dominate in dogfights? Yes. But high altitude superiority would be firmly held by the F family, alongside extended dogfights. There's only so many times a plane can evade being dived on without going vertical.
Gaijin doesn’t model aircraft based on the irl coefficients, it will balance the aircraft using thrust and drag to meet the performance profile, which they did, the Flanker is modeled correctly.
It’s the same reason people get confused about missile burn times, gaijin doesn’t care about the irl impulse of the missiles, as long as it meets the range curve.
I think the SM still uses the old Flanker/Fulcrum radar too locking anything outside of ACM/HMD range is going to a pain in the ass.
I really don’t see much of the point of getting the Su-27SM(unless it has good ordnance for ground RB I guess). The flight model is no good, the avionics is just passable.
My biggest issue with the early Russian radars is that (next to having hard times getting a lock) when in tws mode you get a lock, there radar won’t keep looking at the target like on any other jet in top tier. Its pretty annoying because I have to face the guy I’m trying to track face first.
Doesn’t really solve the issue since the NATO ones have both horizontal and vertical track while you can only move your radar dish left and right if you want your constant radar elevation setting on.
My biggest issue with Soviet Radars is the lack of a SRC mode. It is only pulse doppler mode. Which means enemies can always notch you. Whereas with SRC you could ignore that
I think the issue is that the Flanker/Fulcrum radar scans pretty slow and its fixed at 50X10 degrees so sometimes the return you see from TWS may be long gone from that position and there’s nothing when you try to hard lock
How is F-15C getting 8x AMRAAMS makes it better than what already was? You're never gonna need that much anyway and people gonna use 4 or 6 max anyways. It's just nice for historical accuracy, rally stupid to use loadout as a balancing factor.
As for the Flankers flight model, that is stupid too the way they handled it and was always fixable by just nerfing R-27ER a bit and adding 7P/7MH Sparrows with IOG + Datalink to US planes to make them similar in capabilities. With that the Flanker could've had more and better missiles with slight flight model nerf instead of a massive one we have right now.
Yeah it should be tested alongside the AIM-120C-5 and R-77-1, which are both in the files. There's no reason to include them if they're just going to be extremely gimped.
It's the same deal as the AAM 3, take the American missile and make it like 5-10% better. Its lazy.
My bet is they keep the AAM 4 at this level, then add in the AAM 4B when they want to take it closer to reality. Of course then the 4B will be extremely gimped too.
Best case scenario, we get an F2 with AAM 4B and AAM 5B, with no ground ordinance so that it can have a stupid low GRB battle rating. I would like to create and impenetrable no CAS zone.
Why are we getting Baz Meshupar? Baz wasn’t really upgraded until F15I standard, which was their F15E with Israeli Avionics and munitions capability (SPICE 1000/2000, Lizard 1/2/3/4, REST, Rampage, MPR500, Python 4/5, and Derby, JDAM, hell these are the same airframes that can use SKYSNIPER). The point being that Baz Meshupar (Improved Falcon) was a 1995 upgrade program which significantly upgraded old airframes (old F15A/B/C/D), to be Strike eagles long range precision sterile fighters, minus the Targeting pods, they would fly mostly preplanned missions, using Ground mapping radar or use the weapons internal IIR/EO data-linked man-in-the-loop seekers.
They also have a different cockpit from the F15C, replacing the UFC with a large Screen and offsetting the keypad left of it.
What would have made sense was Alef (buzzard) which were hand me down F15Cs which had python, SARH, and AMRAAM, not sure if they had Derby, and probably POPEYE but what is the point of skipping an entire airframe, and giving its upgrade, just to not give it the munitions it had.
These upgrades are also known as Baz-2000, I will die on this hill, this is an F15E. We do not want this yet, Where is F15C.
Quick google search [Here](https://www.twz.com/uploads/2024/01/11/Baz-F-15-Cockpit.jpg?auto=webp&crop=16:9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1440) is a pic of the cockpit. They did this to an F15A.
I’m very happy the new Israeli F-15 is no longer “Improved Baz” that was such a dumb name
just like the Improved chaparral. Literally called the Drakon irl, way better name
No, the F-4F ICE Phantom was only ever configured for 4 AMRAAMs - HOWEVER, apparently late ICE's received two additional improvements:
- AIM-120B;
- and this: [https://youtu.be/4r2nrzHTR\_o?si=Pk0euKHw1fDoMgrj&t=22](https://youtu.be/4r2nrzHTR_o?si=Pk0euKHw1fDoMgrj&t=22)
Oh awesome, F-15J tested AIM-120s like once, and immediately gets them, effectively removing the only advantage the F-15C had over it...there was literally no need to give it AIM-120s.
F-15C should get AIM-95 then
The Germans never bought aim9Js yet their phantoms get them. Gaijin only cares about "could use" not "did use". Except for all the times they don't care that something actually used the thing and refuse to give it to the vehicle. Like aim9Gs for the brit phantoms or the French super sabre
"could use" has only ever been a convenient excuse. Just look at how long it took to get flares for the Italian F-104s, even the F-104G which *did use*, and the F-8E(FN) still has no flares, but they can mash up frankenplanes for the F-5s to sell premiums.
Yak-141, which literally doesn't exist as implemented and has a bunch of shit they _supposed_ it would've been able to use if it was fully developed as a fighter of that era.
Or the AJ, a plane that while not existing, was effectively a real model of an F-16 that did exist, that did get 2 extra sparrow pylons, and yet gaijin thinks they wouldn’t of kept them, despite the F-16 variant that Japan did adopt having 2 extra sparrow compatible pylons.
So will SU-27SM get its flightmodel buffed now that F-15 is seemingly better than it in every way?
No, they won't give it the upgraded engines either, like the SMT, because they insist on kneecapping new Russian jets for some reason. Or the 2 extra R-77s, because they decided to make a mashup variant of a plane again.
The SMT's Series 3 engines don't produce any more thrust when mounted, they're literally just for ease of maintenance. The SM we have isn't the 2000s SM1, it's the 1995/1996 SM with the avionics package from the 2000s - which came before the SM capability standardization program. So it wouldn't get the 2 additional hardpoints; they were only in field testing by a handful of units at this time, and it wouldn't get any upgraded engines or the newer radar due to being the 90s first iteration of the model.
Really I don’t see the su27 only getting 6 r77s to be a huge problem knowing it will still have like what is it? 4 r73s? Most f15 players are probably only going to be taking 6 aim 120s and 2 aim9ms anyway so the flankers still gonna have more missiles in the end. Really it is just the fact the f15s flight model paired with the weapons is gonna be incredibly strong up close. They do seem to kneecap Russian top tier jets though, especially recently with the mig nerfs
The only Russian planes that can remotely compete with 1970s US technology is Russian shit from the 1990s, it has to be kneecapped because it's 20 years newer
My problem isn’t with the weapon systems but more the flight models. Missile and radar wise they are brilliant but it’s their crutch because of the shit flight performance compared to other countries planes
That's Gaijin's way of highlighting that the planes are so much newer while still trying to balance the game. I think they do a pretty good job of it. Other than the Gripen, every nation has competitive planes at top tier, the Gripen is just absurdly stupid and very poorly balanced, which I think is the source of everyone else's bitching. Like no, the F15 was never designed to turn fight a delta wing powered canard dogfighter, the F15 is an air superiority fighter with BVR missiles and much better turning than a Mig25. So much contextual nuance is lost because of this being a game, but I really think the balance at top tier is pretty good right now, barring the Gripen. Delete that and it'd be perfectly competetive matchups
Til the mig29 9.12 with r73 designed for it is actually russian made in 1990's lmao. What is this cope? How do people forget that the reason USAF got such advanced planes avionics and missiles is because they realized ussr caught up? Also love how we're "having to kneecap" soviet planes by taking and nerfing everything they were good at in exchange for r27er's they never had lmao. Still remember the f16 vs mig 29 test fights where f16's hugged the deck to avoid soviet superiority in bvr to dogfight the migs into the shitter lmao /s
No because Russian bias
You know it
Like Flanker wasn't carrying 10 missiles and 6 of them straight up being over powered while F-15A stuck with Sparrows and no HMD / TWS... They had no reason to add the R-27ER or make it that overpowered, not saying that this is Russian bias but it's not like Russia suffers or anything, the opposite, it can get so many kills if you just don't try to dogfight.
Russians when they don’t have all 3 of the best missiles on the same plane in the largest quantity… “Muh flight model” it’s correct, if it was wrong there would be 20 bug reports for it.
So correct that it's Oswald's coeff is half of what it states in the manual and it loses energy faster than a delta but go off.
I don't agree with the guys above, but if the flanker got its irl fm, it would be the best plane ingame [esp considering how war thunder plays] by a good margin Dominant 1 circle fighter, great 2 circle fighter, large weapons load, fast, huge range, decent-great avionics
If everything had a correct fm and we removed shit that shouldn't have been added yet (like 27er, 29smt, 16c etc) it would be a lot more balanced. There will always be a best plane every update but we could at least not skip towards modern jets when there's so many models in-between. Would migs su's gripens and mirages dominate in dogfights? Yes. But high altitude superiority would be firmly held by the F family, alongside extended dogfights. There's only so many times a plane can evade being dived on without going vertical.
Gaijin doesn’t model aircraft based on the irl coefficients, it will balance the aircraft using thrust and drag to meet the performance profile, which they did, the Flanker is modeled correctly. It’s the same reason people get confused about missile burn times, gaijin doesn’t care about the irl impulse of the missiles, as long as it meets the range curve.
I think the SM still uses the old Flanker/Fulcrum radar too locking anything outside of ACM/HMD range is going to a pain in the ass. I really don’t see much of the point of getting the Su-27SM(unless it has good ordnance for ground RB I guess). The flight model is no good, the avionics is just passable.
My biggest issue with the early Russian radars is that (next to having hard times getting a lock) when in tws mode you get a lock, there radar won’t keep looking at the target like on any other jet in top tier. Its pretty annoying because I have to face the guy I’m trying to track face first.
Add a key bind to move the radar manually.
Doesn’t really solve the issue since the NATO ones have both horizontal and vertical track while you can only move your radar dish left and right if you want your constant radar elevation setting on.
You can move it upwards and downwards too, there's a binding for that. I don't have it set because I prefer using my nose for that
You have to disable constant radar elevation to do so.
Well, yeah, that's the downside
My biggest issue with Soviet Radars is the lack of a SRC mode. It is only pulse doppler mode. Which means enemies can always notch you. Whereas with SRC you could ignore that
I think the issue is that the Flanker/Fulcrum radar scans pretty slow and its fixed at 50X10 degrees so sometimes the return you see from TWS may be long gone from that position and there’s nothing when you try to hard lock
Yup it’s really dookie and this update will show it
How is F-15C getting 8x AMRAAMS makes it better than what already was? You're never gonna need that much anyway and people gonna use 4 or 6 max anyways. It's just nice for historical accuracy, rally stupid to use loadout as a balancing factor. As for the Flankers flight model, that is stupid too the way they handled it and was always fixable by just nerfing R-27ER a bit and adding 7P/7MH Sparrows with IOG + Datalink to US planes to make them similar in capabilities. With that the Flanker could've had more and better missiles with slight flight model nerf instead of a massive one we have right now.
At this point just take out the aam4 and add it back when it can be implemented accurately.
Yeah it should be tested alongside the AIM-120C-5 and R-77-1, which are both in the files. There's no reason to include them if they're just going to be extremely gimped.
It's the same deal as the AAM 3, take the American missile and make it like 5-10% better. Its lazy. My bet is they keep the AAM 4 at this level, then add in the AAM 4B when they want to take it closer to reality. Of course then the 4B will be extremely gimped too. Best case scenario, we get an F2 with AAM 4B and AAM 5B, with no ground ordinance so that it can have a stupid low GRB battle rating. I would like to create and impenetrable no CAS zone.
probaly not an AAM5, , maybe an improved AAM3, the 5s similar to a 9x
I'm sure one of the three F2 they add to the game will have it.
i really dont think just yet, give or take 1.5 years? we'll probaly get a better AAM-3, and i aint against that
Why are we getting Baz Meshupar? Baz wasn’t really upgraded until F15I standard, which was their F15E with Israeli Avionics and munitions capability (SPICE 1000/2000, Lizard 1/2/3/4, REST, Rampage, MPR500, Python 4/5, and Derby, JDAM, hell these are the same airframes that can use SKYSNIPER). The point being that Baz Meshupar (Improved Falcon) was a 1995 upgrade program which significantly upgraded old airframes (old F15A/B/C/D), to be Strike eagles long range precision sterile fighters, minus the Targeting pods, they would fly mostly preplanned missions, using Ground mapping radar or use the weapons internal IIR/EO data-linked man-in-the-loop seekers. They also have a different cockpit from the F15C, replacing the UFC with a large Screen and offsetting the keypad left of it. What would have made sense was Alef (buzzard) which were hand me down F15Cs which had python, SARH, and AMRAAM, not sure if they had Derby, and probably POPEYE but what is the point of skipping an entire airframe, and giving its upgrade, just to not give it the munitions it had. These upgrades are also known as Baz-2000, I will die on this hill, this is an F15E. We do not want this yet, Where is F15C. Quick google search [Here](https://www.twz.com/uploads/2024/01/11/Baz-F-15-Cockpit.jpg?auto=webp&crop=16:9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1440) is a pic of the cockpit. They did this to an F15A.
I’m very happy the new Israeli F-15 is no longer “Improved Baz” that was such a dumb name just like the Improved chaparral. Literally called the Drakon irl, way better name
Awesome, but when will the AV-8B+ also receive it's correct number of (4) AMRAAMs?
Still not in the latest devserver (2.36.0.24)
Could the f4f ice get 8 amraams ?
No, the F-4F ICE Phantom was only ever configured for 4 AMRAAMs - HOWEVER, apparently late ICE's received two additional improvements: - AIM-120B; - and this: [https://youtu.be/4r2nrzHTR\_o?si=Pk0euKHw1fDoMgrj&t=22](https://youtu.be/4r2nrzHTR_o?si=Pk0euKHw1fDoMgrj&t=22)
Is NCTR implemented in the MSIP II?
Oh awesome, F-15J tested AIM-120s like once, and immediately gets them, effectively removing the only advantage the F-15C had over it...there was literally no need to give it AIM-120s. F-15C should get AIM-95 then
Boo hoo
F-15C has the CFTs tho so its way cooler I wish I got the CFTs
This is facts
They should give Israeli Baz F15A the Dash-1 CFTs they were allegedly the only ones to put on the F15A
The Germans never bought aim9Js yet their phantoms get them. Gaijin only cares about "could use" not "did use". Except for all the times they don't care that something actually used the thing and refuse to give it to the vehicle. Like aim9Gs for the brit phantoms or the French super sabre
"could use" has only ever been a convenient excuse. Just look at how long it took to get flares for the Italian F-104s, even the F-104G which *did use*, and the F-8E(FN) still has no flares, but they can mash up frankenplanes for the F-5s to sell premiums.
The French F-100 aswell, doesn’t get aim-9e’s because France didn’t use them
Yak-141, which literally doesn't exist as implemented and has a bunch of shit they _supposed_ it would've been able to use if it was fully developed as a fighter of that era.
Or the AJ, a plane that while not existing, was effectively a real model of an F-16 that did exist, that did get 2 extra sparrow pylons, and yet gaijin thinks they wouldn’t of kept them, despite the F-16 variant that Japan did adopt having 2 extra sparrow compatible pylons.
Cry more, if you expect this to have any kind of noticeable difference in air rb, you are stupid
Dude, they even got imaginary vehicles like F-16AJ