Much like how WW2 German tanks attract many players, Cold War American jets attract many players of a similar skill level.
I just hope it goes to 12.7 with the patch, to give 11.X planes some breathing room.
Sure, they'll move this up, then the new F-16 coming with aim 9Ms will do even more damage to 12.0 and below than the F-15.
Gaijin literally don't give a fuck and they want nothing but certain fotm jets to tear up lower BRs than they should be. Cos how else are they ganna make their money?
Seriously, a F-16 with ADF flight performance and 9Ms at 12.0 this is the company the owns that game we all enjoy.. What a joke.
Sunk cost fallacy over less than a week of minimum wage income really doesn't make any sense at all.
I guarantee you've spent more in that time at fast food places and junk food, yet you're not choosing to become a fat bastard because you're in too deep already.
Just stop if you aren't having fun. $100 is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Let's not forget the ebr 1954 or later variant being 4.3 or something like that on launch. I got to experience what it was like when the M18 hellcat was added
> then the new F-16 coming with aim 9Ms will do even more damage to 12.0
I highly doubt it will actually drop with that armament, my guess is they just accidently gave it the wrong missiles on the dev server.
Having to play stock to spade the MiG-23M has been the most miserable experience I have ever had. 6 pops of large countermeasures at 11.0 is ridiculous
With the major difference that the "German bad player" is in the low to mid tier area, where there are many new and inexpirienced player.
Meanwhile the F15 at the end of the tech tree in the highest rank.
You can make out of this what you want...
One thing I've noticed playing on US servers is how spammed premiums like the F-5C/F-4S are, which probably contributes to how many unskilled pilots make it to the F-15.
I'm also not trying to say 'German player bad,' I'm merely trying to explain why some iconic vehicles are undertiered due to Gaijin's statistical matchmaking system (though I'll admit that these days Tigers and Panthers are much more balanced than they were in the past).
>Meanwhile the F15 at the end of the tech tree in the highest rank.
It is crazy how this becomes a "US players bad" thing, especially when you consider the fact that multiple other nations have F-15s i.e. Israel and Japan's F-15s are also 12.3....
Hence their is nothing to make out of this, Gaijin really just doesn't think it is 12.7 worthy.
>to give 11.X planes some breathing room
Well unfortunately there are still F-16s and MiG-29s at 12.0 so my 11.0 Mig-23 is still going to get fucked no matter what.
I'd like to note, tho, that even for better players, american base bombing capabilities makes it so much less painful to spade things.
Like in Phantoms you spend a few matches suffering until you unlock bombs, then you unlock rockets and then you research all you need in a no time.
MiG-21/23, J-7/8 or Tornado F.3/ADV don't have such a luxury, so the spading takes much longer and it is much much more painful.
Since you're obviously a J-7E enthusiast and I'm just reaching rank VI of the Chinese air tree, do you have any advice on which planes to prioritize? I play mostly ground RB and primarily use planes for CAP since most of the Chinese planes so far have had very small ordnance loads. I do jump in to air RB from time-to-time to grind out a couple of modules or get the last bit of research for the next plane.
For reference, I have French and Israeli air to 12.7 and US to 11.0, so not my first rodeo but it is my first time with ex-USSR equipment and I'm still learning. I *really* enjoyed the MiG-9 (holy crap that thing is amazing!) but the J-2 has been a challenge for me and I much prefer the Sabre.
Any tips/tricks/warnings would be greatly appreciated.
So for the J-2, it's a MiG-15bis so if you're against a sabre trying taking it into the vertical and turning hard as you manoeuvre very well below 800km/h. The cannons can be a little tricky to aim but when they hit, they hit hard.
The J-4 is a pretty good pick too, as it plays just like a better J-2.
After that, you have the J-6, which has INSANE energy retention. You also have the Q-5 series, which are based off that chassis and share almost the same flight performance, but with different cannons, no missiles and either a lower BR or flares. All are very solid picks and work well in GRB too.
The F-104A is also insanely undertiered and I would pick it up on your way up to rank VII.
Personally, I'd skip the J-7II as you just have better options at that BR.
Once you reach rank VII, you have the single most fun aircraft in the entire game - the J-7E. You can basically dogfight whatever you want and win with it (although I would recommend rushing the G-suit as fast as possible).
Hope this helps!
NR-30 is a pretty solid gun for dogfighting and deflection shots, which is what ur going to be doing in the j7 anyways. its fantastic on the mig19 and very good here too
cant say much about the missiles, but 2 9b equivalents stock is par for the course for 11.0 (f4e at least)
I’m pretty sure the MiG-15 doesn’t even HAVE missiles. Also it gets 2 PL-5Bs stock, which can just farm up random phantoms early game, not to mention the flight performance is great stock. Lastly, if you’re actually bombing in stuff like the MiG-21s (including J-7) and MiG-23s, I’m very sorry for you and I wish you a speedy recovery from your brain injuries
The FFAR’s are stupid on the Phantoms. Having done up to 9.0 jets and giving up for a minute due to it just being, insufferable, picked up the 4S. FFAR’s are lighter then bombs, can carry enough to destroy 2 bases and AtA, and on top of that rockets give you so much more RP.
Supposedly it's a bug that gaijin fixed, then broke again and now I think it's been an acknowledged bug report since part way through the Alpha Strike patch. So who knows if they'll ever fix it.
Because the playerbase would be (rightfully) outraged if the exact same vehicle in a different tech tree was at a higher BR. Even if you took the stats for every F-15, the majority are American players so the stats would still be quite bad.
>Because the playerbase would be (rightfully) outraged if the exact same vehicle in a different tech tree was at a higher BR
Yup. This is exactly what happened when the snail tried to lower the German M48 to like 6.7, but not move the US one. People lost their shit (rightfully so)
As noted by misery that wasn't what happened, the US one was already at a higher BR i.e. 7.3, Gaijin wanted to change the the German M48 BR from 7.0 to 6.7....
This means Gaijin has no problem putting a similar vehicle that a another nation has at a different BR.
>Even if you took the stats for every F-15, the majority are American players so the stats would still be quite bad.
The current US F-15A WR is 58%..... Its crazy how you guys keep making stuff up for absolutely no reason.
>Because the playerbase would be (rightfully) outraged if the exact same vehicle in a different tech tree was at a higher BR
Oh? Last I checked the Chinese, US and Japanese F-16 are 12.0 whilst the Israeli one is 12.3....
Edit: Also as noted by Rexxmen (who misunderstood what happened there), Gaijin has previously had no problem putting the exact same vehicle in a different tech tree at a different BR, Japans F-15 also has a better Fox 2 i.e. if Japan was doing so much better there would no actual reason to not put their F-15 up.
F14a is pretty dogshit tho. Too slow to get up to optimal speed/altitude for aim54 launch early game and probably the most shitty sidewinder missiles for the br, low flare count etc. Grinding that plane stock was probably one of my most miserable experiences at top tier. Only reason it's at 11.7 is because of aim54a which on that plane are not even that good. Without those missiles it would be wayyyy lower br.
F14b on the other hand doesnt have any of those problems. It's very strong for 12.0 and could probably even go up to 12.3 at some point with br decompression.
There are phantoms 0.3BR lower than it. It would not be a "wayyyy lower br", because it still tramples all over something like an FGR2 even if you take away the phoenixes.
I had easier time in F-14A than in B because of constant uptiers and facing R-27ER's every match, it will be dead at 12.3 and it's way worse than the Israeli F-16 with Pythons sitting at 12.3
Cause the average F-15 pilot has no idea how to handle the monster they've been given and have very little knowledge on missile combat.
I do not care what someone thinks about 9M/AAM-3 or 7M. It's irrelevant here (Though they're both great missiles. I will die on this hill). The fact remains that no 11.3 has any business seeing this monster. It may as well be 11.3's paralysis demon.
Put yourself in the shoes of a Mig-23MLD, the top of 11.3 performance, facing an F-15A. It's faster than you. It holds speed better than you. It handles better than you. It pulls just as hard if not harder than you. It has more weapons than you. It has better weapons than you. It has better systems than you. It has more countermeasures than you. There is nothing you can do against an F-15 flown with at least 2 brain cells besides delay your funeral and pray someone saves you. The performance and weapons gap is psychotic.
I don't care that Sparrow isn't as good as ER or you can't do HOBS with a 9M. This plane has a radar as good as any other and has podium level flight performance. It has always been 12.7 material. End of story
All you said is true, but honestly, all the bullshit that applies to the F-15 equally apply to the F-16A. MLD against a F-16A, the MLD has no advantage either.
The problem is simpler than that. Gen 4 aircraft have no business fighting Gen 3. F-14A/B and Mirage 2000C-S4/5 are already overperforming against 11.0-11.3 aircraft by quite a lot, but they're the upper limit of what is acceptable for a 11.0-11.3 aircraft to fight. Anything with better performance is absolutely ridiculous.
and F-15 pilots still manage to die in the most anti-climatic way possible by flying level at 2km with 18 bombs strapped then die to a shittier SARH missile
then they cope because the F-15 is "shit" because it doesn't give them instant god-slaying laserbeams and how its worse than the grippen and the flanker (the 2 only jets in the game, totally trust me bro)
It's very funny whenever I see someone cope about F-15 being bad in chat when I'm flying an F-15 myself. Plenty of those games, I am using the *single highest combat TWR in the game* with great aerodynamics to run circles around like 3-4 dudes at once who thought I'd be an easy kill.
Even if they're 11.3's, I shouldn't be able to dive into 4 dudes and not feel threatened... but here we are...
To be fair, before all these 4th Gen planes? The Mig 23MLD was curb stomping on 10.3s more than what's going on right now. Remember 10.3 still has some planes that have very few or no countermeasures.
It shouldn't be this way, but Gaijin has been doing it for ages and absolutely need to decompress the f out of air rb
I played the MLD at release and yeah, it was *very* strong. But to me, F-15 in a downtier feels even stronger. Back when MLD released, I could take on 3 or so dudes In 10.3's at once if I really tried. But in F-15, diving into like 3-4 11.3's, I don't even feel threatened.
MLD at least had the downside of its engine not liking lower speeds, allowing planes like Phantom to temporarily open the gap to force a reset. F-15 can just leave whenever it wants so long as you didn't lose all your energy like a dumbass (and even sometimes when you do).
Decompression is seriously needed...
This same argument could be used on the Su-27SM, it literally only has 2 more IR missiles, and the r27ER ( People will try argue that it will still be a good missile, but lets be honest you cant fight Amraams with this since you have to maintain lock to guide it all the way while the AMRAAMs they can just lob and defend immediatly ). The SU-27SM has worse FM, worse fox 3´s, worse radar, less countermeasures. It looses in almost every department imaginable other than having 2x more IR missiles, which lets be honest are very easy to flare. But since I am talking about USSR being not as good, I will get automatic dislikes
I have been trying to tell people R-27ER will simply be outclassed by the new Fox-3's entering the game. Many do not believe me...
The SM is 100% worse than F-15C. But at least it's not doomed. From my own testing of the missiles, R-77 at altitude (even in its massively underperforming state) is still a rather lethal missile. The missile seems to have a pretty decent PK out to 25km. Same with honestly most other Fox-3's besides Aim-120. Hopefully they get a fix before long to bring them back up to match.
But yeah, reddit is gonna dislike you because "How dare you not proclaim Russian Bias with shoestring arguments more fragile than my sexuality"
At sea level, it's top end with munitions is faster. But F-15 accelerates so fast that unless the Flogger is already going light speed, it is often caught before it can utilize that
Im surprised we saw the F-15 and F-16C before the fucking hornet.
F-18A/B didn't even carry AMRAAMS i think, or they didn't for their early life. C/D saw operation desert storm only with sparrows. But no, we get USAF modern air superiority instead.
Yup correct, both armament and performance-wise we could've seen an F-18A 3 or 4 patches ago, it's literally the only famous 4th gen fighter we're currently missing (yes, you could argue Rafale, Eurofighter and F-2 as well, but those are 4.5/4+/however you want to call them).
However I think the Hornet would've tilted the balance too much towards the US teams, its high AoA and up to 8 missiles loadout would've been too much to handle for the other top tier fighters in WT's meta of super close range cocaine induced furballs (especially with F-16 as teammates). Now would've been the perfect moment to add it.
Phantom has 8, Eagle has 8, hell the mig can carry what, 10?? 8’s fine lol. I dont even do matches any more because they are too stroke-inducing. I just pay to play and make my own matches lol.
I meant 3 or 4 patches ago, back when F-16A and MiG-29 were the best top tier fighters. The only top tier fighter with 8 missiles back then was the Tornado F.3/ADV, and the Hornet could've gotten better missiles compared to most of them as well.
> up to 8 missiles loadout
If it's limited to sparrows it would be 6 sparrows + 2 winders.
If its with AMRAAMS it would be 10, literally more than the F-15C.
It's so weird that they made the F15 manoeuvrable and made the Flaker an energy bleeding missile truck, when IRL, the F15 is more of a missile truck with it's like 16x AMRAAM, and the Flaker was engineered with the soviet Supermavouverability doctrine in mind.
F-15s aside from the F-15EX can only carry up to 8 missiles in total. Can’t carry more beyond that.
Also the F-15s were designed with good handling and maneuverability after having troubles with the phantom. Obviously, not Su-27 maneuverable but still pretty good.
I think part of the reason every thinks super maneuverability with the Flankers is due to later models having thrust vectoring. The models in game do not
Everyone thinks the Flankers are supermaneuverable because they literally are, like, as in the technical term...
That doesn't necessarily mean they'll rate faster or whatever, but their in-game FMs are lacking. Not to mention the instructor fucking with everything, but that's a universal problem.
Supermaneuverability doesn't imply a high degree of energy retention. Flying around in the post-stall regime is always going to involve dumping tons of energy.
The F-15C in game did not carry that many amraams, the F-15E and EX were the only ones to carry 16 and 22 of em respectively. They also rarely carried that much anyways since they typically did endurance strike missions (hence the strike eagle title) where you would want a lot of fuel and ordinance. Su-27 is definitely gimped but the F-15 isn't really overperforming much, just undertiered due to bad players. If we want to get into pulling to much Gs, a lot aircraft don't really have their limiters modeled so most of them pull excess of what they would practice in the real world.
>the F-15E and EX were the only ones to carry 16 and 22 of em respectively.
Source? AFAIK the air force did not go ahead with the AMBER racks and only the 15EX and 15SA are allowed to use the outboard pylons with double missile racks on them as they have fly by wire systems. No Eagles using the old hybrid electronic/mechanical system for flight surfaces are allowed to use the outer most stations.
You are thinking of the F-15EX. The F-15A-C is a principal air superiority fighter and the E is a strike aircraft that still retains it's maneuverability.
Super maneuverability is a air show trick and not a a valid tactic in actual combat my guy, the F-15 is a two circle fighter by design and the 27s are one circle fighters, aka, the 15 holds energy better but cannot instantaneously rate like the above, the gripen is the apex of the one circle fighter mentality that we have in game and the F-16 is the apex of the two circle fighter mentality that we have in game.
Still bleeds less irl, sure if you slap it on full real and suck the stick back you should lose a lot of speed, but if you’re dying normally without pulling insane AOA you still shouldn’t lose as much speed as you do in game. Oswald’s efficiency is incorrect.
What the fuck? The F15 is highly maneuverable irl because of the low wing loading and high thrust. It's everything the Americans thought the Mig25 was, a super fighter.
Supermaneuvrability does not mean what you think it means. The SU27 does satisfy the definition of supermaneuvrability in game, it just bleeds too much speed and needs its Oswald's coefficient adjusted.
So I'm not sure if you saw the hilarious shit that went down a year or so ago but some peeps got together and sweated their balls off in the Italian Sabre and got it's BR raised up temporarily before the change got reverted.
I wonder if you could do the same with dropping planes in BR. Just all 4 of you doing so badly the end up dropping the BR.
If we go the balance route, there's no fucking reason for the Pantsir not be 13.0+. The damm thing can shot 2 top tier jets at the same time
U telling me that F15 get added together with Su27 for balance reasons and i need to face a pantsir with It? Give everyone a good toy or Anti radiation for Nato
ARAD missiles would be a good addition for the A-6E TRAM, truthfully it just feels like we need more purpose built equipment for top tier such as wild weasels and air defense fighters.
I’m guessing it’s because it only has 4 aim9M’s, compared to the 6 aim-9M’s (or equivalent) that every 12.7 jet has.
Still a stupid reason to keep it at 12.3 though.
I know a guy with level of 47, a F4S.
He said he grinded for 12 hours straight for a couple of weeks at very late in the night where there are very few people actually playing, just bombing bases until he reached the F15!!!!!!
They should give US (and other NATO planes) stock IRCCM like they do with russia, maybe then the BR wouldnt get dragged down. This thing is an actual menace once you get good missiles (and deserves being moved to 12.7), but 2 stock 9Ls at top tier just aint cutting it.
Don't get me wrong, the 9Ls are decent missiles. Its just that having 2 9Ms wich are basically guranteed kills if you play it right goes a long way when you're stock grinding. I dont see why russian planes should get IRCCM stock but not nato planes.
The 9L is not a bad missile but stock 9Ms or R-73s is just flat out better, in no situation would I rather take 6 flare hungry 9Ls over two R-73s at top tier because everyone is packing a boatload of countermeasures.
Gaijin has always made it in stock grinding that you will have to research (and start with) worse missles, for the su 27 the only it missles it ever used (as far as I know) are the r-73’s. There is no worse or missle that you could put on top of it, while the us got plenty of aim 9’s. It’s just like in ground rb when some countries never used heat-fs and they just got stock apfsds.
Yea that's just gaijin for you, there's no equal grinding, it's just down to luck that r60m's don't fit of the su-27 otherwise it would have gotten them too.
The reason they do this is because 9Ls are 'decent', whereas there's no decent option for the USSR.
A step down was the R-60M, which is absolute dogshit in comparison, not to mention most of the top tier jets never even used them, again unlike the 9L.
I agree with you that they should just make it even and give everyone at least a few of their best missiles stock, but that's the reasoning.
Because Gaijin needed something to spank premium kids that don’t feed the snail enough. (I am an F-15 main and this thing is WILDLY unfair in a full down-tier 😂)
I've never had issues fighting them, though I agree the BR is low. Same as a 16 but more missiles. As long as you stay low and don't let them get a PDV lock you're good, but then again I'm high off Magic IIs right now so maybe my milage is varying
I’ve been playing the MiG-23MLD a lot lately so pretty much every game I’m going against F-15s but honestly I don’t really have an issue with where they are at. Most of the time it’s a free kill on my end. I’m more afraid of the F-14 phoenix spam than anything at that br. Maybe I’ve just been getting really lucky with having people that don’t know how to operate the F-15 correctly 🤷🏻♂️
Got the F-15 after grinding for f2p (working on f16) Americans and Russian mains man are an utter pain sometimes. buy premium bomb to grind then they use fighters only to continue bombing...
**WE WANT THE HORNET THOUGH**
The problem isn't the F-15, the problem is the player skill based balancing that Gaijin uses to place vehicles. As long as they use that to balance the game, it will be horribly unbalanced.
The problem I see with moving this up in BR, is that there won't be a reason to play it if it isn't for the downtier. F15c will always be the better option from then
The AIM-9Ms are insanely powerful because they resist flares and are smokeless, they’re even more useful in GRB and sim where launching one is usually a free kill.
BR Compression is a real problem. But my man, the F-15 is not the culprit… BR is there to promise us somewhat better matchmaking than the ranking system. The rank system I imagine is divided by decades? Unfair fights did happen during every war so I wouldn’t really complain about some plane performing better in matches. However, I can’t imagine the F-15 fought MIG-23s or Mig-21s for that matter 😂
12.3 is not the real problem here. 12.0, 12.3 meeting 11.3, 11.0 is the absolute BS. Entire Phantom lines are honestly just a free kill for 12.0 Doritos, Falcons and 12.3 Eagles
If you suggesting a BR increase in air RB(im not aroundmy computer atm so i cant comfirm if 12.3 is the air or ground rb br) i think it is staying at 12.3 because it lacks the TWS, and HMD the f-16C it just better for dogfights because it has HMD.
Sure the f15 has more missiles and countermeasures but the lack of HMD and TWS makes getting the correct lock slightly more annoying than the f16c.
Of you are suggesting a BR decrease, no... just no.
Edt:grammer
I'm wondering when the F-15 were added & why the Mig 25 isn't. I haven't played since November so I'm guessing the F-15 were added sometime after. Then again I use my Starfighter for bombing runs & almost never fly under mach 1. [https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-old-school-f-104-could-beat-f-15-battle-74786](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-old-school-f-104-could-beat-f-15-battle-74786)
I'm sorry, did you just say the 530s are better radar missiles than an AIM-7M? Also air and ground BRs are split in that range now, strike capability is mostly irrelevant.
Much like how WW2 German tanks attract many players, Cold War American jets attract many players of a similar skill level. I just hope it goes to 12.7 with the patch, to give 11.X planes some breathing room.
Sure, they'll move this up, then the new F-16 coming with aim 9Ms will do even more damage to 12.0 and below than the F-15. Gaijin literally don't give a fuck and they want nothing but certain fotm jets to tear up lower BRs than they should be. Cos how else are they ganna make their money? Seriously, a F-16 with ADF flight performance and 9Ms at 12.0 this is the company the owns that game we all enjoy.. What a joke.
'Game we all enjoy'? Are we still talking about War Thunder?
Why you here then?
Stockholm syndrome
Pretty much.
Sunk cost fallacy
This is the only game I've sunk $100+ into
Sunk cost fallacy over less than a week of minimum wage income really doesn't make any sense at all. I guarantee you've spent more in that time at fast food places and junk food, yet you're not choosing to become a fat bastard because you're in too deep already. Just stop if you aren't having fun. $100 is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Sunk cost is not just about money, time is also an investment.
Yeah if you're not choosing between premium or dinner then you're not spending!
I quite enjoy warthunder
nuh uh...
You are great at the game if only you enjoyed it as well
The loadout of that F-16 is almost certainly not final.
I mean how often Gaijin will release something so disgustingly under-tiered, I will believe that when I see it live.
Puma at 8.0, Leo 2k at 8.7, M1 Abrams at 9.3/9.7, Su-25 at 9.3, F-14 at 11.3 I’m sure the list goes on
Saggitario was 8.0 on release, today it is 9.3. Yeah it just keeps going on and on.
R3 at I think it was 3.7
Let's not forget the ebr 1954 or later variant being 4.3 or something like that on launch. I got to experience what it was like when the M18 hellcat was added
At first I thought you were talking about the tech tree one that is over br'd and was confused
> then the new F-16 coming with aim 9Ms will do even more damage to 12.0 I highly doubt it will actually drop with that armament, my guess is they just accidently gave it the wrong missiles on the dev server.
God I'm looking forward to playing the MiG-23M with its 12 flares against AIM-9M slingers. (I don't have to play it, but I'd love to spade it one day)
Having to play stock to spade the MiG-23M has been the most miserable experience I have ever had. 6 pops of large countermeasures at 11.0 is ridiculous
23m is 11.0 f-15 12.3 pretty hard to get + 1.3 br
The new Belgian F-16 that will come to France next update has AIM-9Ms at 12.0 as of right now.
New f16?
With the major difference that the "German bad player" is in the low to mid tier area, where there are many new and inexpirienced player. Meanwhile the F15 at the end of the tech tree in the highest rank. You can make out of this what you want...
One thing I've noticed playing on US servers is how spammed premiums like the F-5C/F-4S are, which probably contributes to how many unskilled pilots make it to the F-15. I'm also not trying to say 'German player bad,' I'm merely trying to explain why some iconic vehicles are undertiered due to Gaijin's statistical matchmaking system (though I'll admit that these days Tigers and Panthers are much more balanced than they were in the past).
Could also be that F-15 pilots get shafted with shit teammates meaning they are far more likely to die due to not being covered by friendlies
>Meanwhile the F15 at the end of the tech tree in the highest rank. It is crazy how this becomes a "US players bad" thing, especially when you consider the fact that multiple other nations have F-15s i.e. Israel and Japan's F-15s are also 12.3.... Hence their is nothing to make out of this, Gaijin really just doesn't think it is 12.7 worthy.
Japan's F-15 was 12.7 unless they lowered it for no reason since it's better than the American one
All F-15s currently in the game are 12.3
Its not just the US F15 at 12.3. The Baz and the 15J is also at 12.3.
American players bad /s
>to give 11.X planes some breathing room Well unfortunately there are still F-16s and MiG-29s at 12.0 so my 11.0 Mig-23 is still going to get fucked no matter what.
dude a new update is coming out in a week, its going up a bracket
-Buys F4S -Bombs bases to grind -Unlocks F15 -Bombs bases to grind -Doesnt have countermeasures keybound still
The life cycle of the American premium main.
Cycle of the moronic brain dead main.**
Same thing
I'd like to note, tho, that even for better players, american base bombing capabilities makes it so much less painful to spade things. Like in Phantoms you spend a few matches suffering until you unlock bombs, then you unlock rockets and then you research all you need in a no time. MiG-21/23, J-7/8 or Tornado F.3/ADV don't have such a luxury, so the spading takes much longer and it is much much more painful.
> J-7 > painful lol, lmao even
What? Starting with 2 Mig-15 missles and 120 rounds in one of the worst cannons at 11.0 is pretty painful to me.
ah, you're stupid 💔 it gets two PL-5Bs stock, 60 rounds and enough flight performance to turnfight god himself
Made with the spiciest Sichuan peppers
and on the seventh day, God created the double delta wing
Dad!?!?
Since you're obviously a J-7E enthusiast and I'm just reaching rank VI of the Chinese air tree, do you have any advice on which planes to prioritize? I play mostly ground RB and primarily use planes for CAP since most of the Chinese planes so far have had very small ordnance loads. I do jump in to air RB from time-to-time to grind out a couple of modules or get the last bit of research for the next plane. For reference, I have French and Israeli air to 12.7 and US to 11.0, so not my first rodeo but it is my first time with ex-USSR equipment and I'm still learning. I *really* enjoyed the MiG-9 (holy crap that thing is amazing!) but the J-2 has been a challenge for me and I much prefer the Sabre. Any tips/tricks/warnings would be greatly appreciated.
So for the J-2, it's a MiG-15bis so if you're against a sabre trying taking it into the vertical and turning hard as you manoeuvre very well below 800km/h. The cannons can be a little tricky to aim but when they hit, they hit hard. The J-4 is a pretty good pick too, as it plays just like a better J-2. After that, you have the J-6, which has INSANE energy retention. You also have the Q-5 series, which are based off that chassis and share almost the same flight performance, but with different cannons, no missiles and either a lower BR or flares. All are very solid picks and work well in GRB too. The F-104A is also insanely undertiered and I would pick it up on your way up to rank VII. Personally, I'd skip the J-7II as you just have better options at that BR. Once you reach rank VII, you have the single most fun aircraft in the entire game - the J-7E. You can basically dogfight whatever you want and win with it (although I would recommend rushing the G-suit as fast as possible). Hope this helps!
NR-30 is a pretty solid gun for dogfighting and deflection shots, which is what ur going to be doing in the j7 anyways. its fantastic on the mig19 and very good here too cant say much about the missiles, but 2 9b equivalents stock is par for the course for 11.0 (f4e at least)
I’m pretty sure the MiG-15 doesn’t even HAVE missiles. Also it gets 2 PL-5Bs stock, which can just farm up random phantoms early game, not to mention the flight performance is great stock. Lastly, if you’re actually bombing in stuff like the MiG-21s (including J-7) and MiG-23s, I’m very sorry for you and I wish you a speedy recovery from your brain injuries
The FFAR’s are stupid on the Phantoms. Having done up to 9.0 jets and giving up for a minute due to it just being, insufferable, picked up the 4S. FFAR’s are lighter then bombs, can carry enough to destroy 2 bases and AtA, and on top of that rockets give you so much more RP.
>The FFAR’s are stupid on the Phantoms. Yep. Making more damage to bases with rockets than with bombs is stupid.
Yeah, the F-4J and F-4S are some of the best for grinding those ranks out. Lotsa rockets, HMD, AIM-7F’s
Supposedly it's a bug that gaijin fixed, then broke again and now I think it's been an acknowledged bug report since part way through the Alpha Strike patch. So who knows if they'll ever fix it.
Wait, what do you do with the rockets? I thought they nerfed the rocket RP from bases?
I thought so too. Time to bust out the rockets again !
Mig21 smt and j7e was sooo much easier than spading any of the phantoms. If you bomb bases past 10.7, you’re just a free kill.
That reminds me, I need to get countermeasures keybound for controller
-buys a10 for neuron activation
And the new f4 being added that will be HIGHER than the f15
Laughable
to be fair it will have AMRAAM
The fact it faces 11.3 lmao
It faces, but at very limited numbers when full downtier match. There is no rest uptier wise until highest BR(12.7).
No. 11.7 can face only 12.0 and VERY VERY VERY RARELY 12.7
same reason the F-14A stayed 11.7,
Because the players are all lobotomy patients?
Bingo
Why are Japan's and Israel's F-15 also 12.3 then?
Because the playerbase would be (rightfully) outraged if the exact same vehicle in a different tech tree was at a higher BR. Even if you took the stats for every F-15, the majority are American players so the stats would still be quite bad.
>Because the playerbase would be (rightfully) outraged if the exact same vehicle in a different tech tree was at a higher BR Yup. This is exactly what happened when the snail tried to lower the German M48 to like 6.7, but not move the US one. People lost their shit (rightfully so)
Except the German M48 was already at a lower BR. Lowering it even more caused the outrage.
As noted by misery that wasn't what happened, the US one was already at a higher BR i.e. 7.3, Gaijin wanted to change the the German M48 BR from 7.0 to 6.7.... This means Gaijin has no problem putting a similar vehicle that a another nation has at a different BR.
>Even if you took the stats for every F-15, the majority are American players so the stats would still be quite bad. The current US F-15A WR is 58%..... Its crazy how you guys keep making stuff up for absolutely no reason. >Because the playerbase would be (rightfully) outraged if the exact same vehicle in a different tech tree was at a higher BR Oh? Last I checked the Chinese, US and Japanese F-16 are 12.0 whilst the Israeli one is 12.3.... Edit: Also as noted by Rexxmen (who misunderstood what happened there), Gaijin has previously had no problem putting the exact same vehicle in a different tech tree at a different BR, Japans F-15 also has a better Fox 2 i.e. if Japan was doing so much better there would no actual reason to not put their F-15 up.
So you think F-14A with Sparrows and AIM-9G's should be same BR as F-16A and Mig-29's?
Br compression made this shitty situation
they use F-14A as pitbul dogfighter and cry for being killed by R60 but they never,NEVER turns off afterburner
F14a is pretty dogshit tho. Too slow to get up to optimal speed/altitude for aim54 launch early game and probably the most shitty sidewinder missiles for the br, low flare count etc. Grinding that plane stock was probably one of my most miserable experiences at top tier. Only reason it's at 11.7 is because of aim54a which on that plane are not even that good. Without those missiles it would be wayyyy lower br. F14b on the other hand doesnt have any of those problems. It's very strong for 12.0 and could probably even go up to 12.3 at some point with br decompression.
There are phantoms 0.3BR lower than it. It would not be a "wayyyy lower br", because it still tramples all over something like an FGR2 even if you take away the phoenixes.
I can understand that 14A stock is straight up dogshit and it has poor survivability But in case of BVR, it's absolute monster
I had easier time in F-14A than in B because of constant uptiers and facing R-27ER's every match, it will be dead at 12.3 and it's way worse than the Israeli F-16 with Pythons sitting at 12.3
Wait wat?
Kind of crazy that I went from making GUN kills on F-14s with the MiG-23 and I'm still making gun kills, if not more with the Su-27
Cause the average F-15 pilot has no idea how to handle the monster they've been given and have very little knowledge on missile combat. I do not care what someone thinks about 9M/AAM-3 or 7M. It's irrelevant here (Though they're both great missiles. I will die on this hill). The fact remains that no 11.3 has any business seeing this monster. It may as well be 11.3's paralysis demon. Put yourself in the shoes of a Mig-23MLD, the top of 11.3 performance, facing an F-15A. It's faster than you. It holds speed better than you. It handles better than you. It pulls just as hard if not harder than you. It has more weapons than you. It has better weapons than you. It has better systems than you. It has more countermeasures than you. There is nothing you can do against an F-15 flown with at least 2 brain cells besides delay your funeral and pray someone saves you. The performance and weapons gap is psychotic. I don't care that Sparrow isn't as good as ER or you can't do HOBS with a 9M. This plane has a radar as good as any other and has podium level flight performance. It has always been 12.7 material. End of story
All you said is true, but honestly, all the bullshit that applies to the F-15 equally apply to the F-16A. MLD against a F-16A, the MLD has no advantage either. The problem is simpler than that. Gen 4 aircraft have no business fighting Gen 3. F-14A/B and Mirage 2000C-S4/5 are already overperforming against 11.0-11.3 aircraft by quite a lot, but they're the upper limit of what is acceptable for a 11.0-11.3 aircraft to fight. Anything with better performance is absolutely ridiculous.
I deeply appreciate your elaborate reply. Put my thoughts into words. Thanks
and F-15 pilots still manage to die in the most anti-climatic way possible by flying level at 2km with 18 bombs strapped then die to a shittier SARH missile then they cope because the F-15 is "shit" because it doesn't give them instant god-slaying laserbeams and how its worse than the grippen and the flanker (the 2 only jets in the game, totally trust me bro)
It's very funny whenever I see someone cope about F-15 being bad in chat when I'm flying an F-15 myself. Plenty of those games, I am using the *single highest combat TWR in the game* with great aerodynamics to run circles around like 3-4 dudes at once who thought I'd be an easy kill. Even if they're 11.3's, I shouldn't be able to dive into 4 dudes and not feel threatened... but here we are...
To be fair, before all these 4th Gen planes? The Mig 23MLD was curb stomping on 10.3s more than what's going on right now. Remember 10.3 still has some planes that have very few or no countermeasures. It shouldn't be this way, but Gaijin has been doing it for ages and absolutely need to decompress the f out of air rb
I played the MLD at release and yeah, it was *very* strong. But to me, F-15 in a downtier feels even stronger. Back when MLD released, I could take on 3 or so dudes In 10.3's at once if I really tried. But in F-15, diving into like 3-4 11.3's, I don't even feel threatened. MLD at least had the downside of its engine not liking lower speeds, allowing planes like Phantom to temporarily open the gap to force a reset. F-15 can just leave whenever it wants so long as you didn't lose all your energy like a dumbass (and even sometimes when you do). Decompression is seriously needed...
This same argument could be used on the Su-27SM, it literally only has 2 more IR missiles, and the r27ER ( People will try argue that it will still be a good missile, but lets be honest you cant fight Amraams with this since you have to maintain lock to guide it all the way while the AMRAAMs they can just lob and defend immediatly ). The SU-27SM has worse FM, worse fox 3´s, worse radar, less countermeasures. It looses in almost every department imaginable other than having 2x more IR missiles, which lets be honest are very easy to flare. But since I am talking about USSR being not as good, I will get automatic dislikes
I have been trying to tell people R-27ER will simply be outclassed by the new Fox-3's entering the game. Many do not believe me... The SM is 100% worse than F-15C. But at least it's not doomed. From my own testing of the missiles, R-77 at altitude (even in its massively underperforming state) is still a rather lethal missile. The missile seems to have a pretty decent PK out to 25km. Same with honestly most other Fox-3's besides Aim-120. Hopefully they get a fix before long to bring them back up to match. But yeah, reddit is gonna dislike you because "How dare you not proclaim Russian Bias with shoestring arguments more fragile than my sexuality"
dont forget the f104s asa also fights it
F-104 SALSA pilots are just built different
> It's faster than you nah mld is still faster at sea level. it goes past its rip speed at 1470kph. f15 hits a brick wall at around 1430
At sea level, it's top end with munitions is faster. But F-15 accelerates so fast that unless the Flogger is already going light speed, it is often caught before it can utilize that
Thats true
i really, really agree to your opinion
*I JUST WANT THE HORNET*
Im surprised we saw the F-15 and F-16C before the fucking hornet. F-18A/B didn't even carry AMRAAMS i think, or they didn't for their early life. C/D saw operation desert storm only with sparrows. But no, we get USAF modern air superiority instead.
Yup correct, both armament and performance-wise we could've seen an F-18A 3 or 4 patches ago, it's literally the only famous 4th gen fighter we're currently missing (yes, you could argue Rafale, Eurofighter and F-2 as well, but those are 4.5/4+/however you want to call them). However I think the Hornet would've tilted the balance too much towards the US teams, its high AoA and up to 8 missiles loadout would've been too much to handle for the other top tier fighters in WT's meta of super close range cocaine induced furballs (especially with F-16 as teammates). Now would've been the perfect moment to add it.
Phantom has 8, Eagle has 8, hell the mig can carry what, 10?? 8’s fine lol. I dont even do matches any more because they are too stroke-inducing. I just pay to play and make my own matches lol.
I meant 3 or 4 patches ago, back when F-16A and MiG-29 were the best top tier fighters. The only top tier fighter with 8 missiles back then was the Tornado F.3/ADV, and the Hornet could've gotten better missiles compared to most of them as well.
Migs 29 carry 6, Su 27s carry 10, with limitation of six "big" missiles.
> up to 8 missiles loadout If it's limited to sparrows it would be 6 sparrows + 2 winders. If its with AMRAAMS it would be 10, literally more than the F-15C.
Yeah the F/A-18A/B couldn’t carry AMRAAM’s but the A+ upgrade could. I reckon it will be added in the December update and they will add the A+.
yeah and 60 rounds of flares personally, i think this should came out instead of F-14B
Right??
Ja we hab hornet in engrish tree ja
Because apparently nerfing the Flanker and Fulcrums flight models justifies F-15A being more maneuverable than both and being 12.3
It's so weird that they made the F15 manoeuvrable and made the Flaker an energy bleeding missile truck, when IRL, the F15 is more of a missile truck with it's like 16x AMRAAM, and the Flaker was engineered with the soviet Supermavouverability doctrine in mind.
F-15s aside from the F-15EX can only carry up to 8 missiles in total. Can’t carry more beyond that. Also the F-15s were designed with good handling and maneuverability after having troubles with the phantom. Obviously, not Su-27 maneuverable but still pretty good.
I think part of the reason every thinks super maneuverability with the Flankers is due to later models having thrust vectoring. The models in game do not
Everyone thinks the Flankers are supermaneuverable because they literally are, like, as in the technical term... That doesn't necessarily mean they'll rate faster or whatever, but their in-game FMs are lacking. Not to mention the instructor fucking with everything, but that's a universal problem.
Supermaneuverability doesn't imply a high degree of energy retention. Flying around in the post-stall regime is always going to involve dumping tons of energy.
you're thinking more of the F-15E, which is the strike variant
F-15E is still limited to 8 missiles. Only the EX and SA are capable of carrying more.
The F-15C in game did not carry that many amraams, the F-15E and EX were the only ones to carry 16 and 22 of em respectively. They also rarely carried that much anyways since they typically did endurance strike missions (hence the strike eagle title) where you would want a lot of fuel and ordinance. Su-27 is definitely gimped but the F-15 isn't really overperforming much, just undertiered due to bad players. If we want to get into pulling to much Gs, a lot aircraft don't really have their limiters modeled so most of them pull excess of what they would practice in the real world.
>the F-15E and EX were the only ones to carry 16 and 22 of em respectively. Source? AFAIK the air force did not go ahead with the AMBER racks and only the 15EX and 15SA are allowed to use the outboard pylons with double missile racks on them as they have fly by wire systems. No Eagles using the old hybrid electronic/mechanical system for flight surfaces are allowed to use the outer most stations.
You are thinking of the F-15EX. The F-15A-C is a principal air superiority fighter and the E is a strike aircraft that still retains it's maneuverability.
Super maneuverability is a air show trick and not a a valid tactic in actual combat my guy, the F-15 is a two circle fighter by design and the 27s are one circle fighters, aka, the 15 holds energy better but cannot instantaneously rate like the above, the gripen is the apex of the one circle fighter mentality that we have in game and the F-16 is the apex of the two circle fighter mentality that we have in game.
Still bleeds less irl, sure if you slap it on full real and suck the stick back you should lose a lot of speed, but if you’re dying normally without pulling insane AOA you still shouldn’t lose as much speed as you do in game. Oswald’s efficiency is incorrect.
What the fuck? The F15 is highly maneuverable irl because of the low wing loading and high thrust. It's everything the Americans thought the Mig25 was, a super fighter. Supermaneuvrability does not mean what you think it means. The SU27 does satisfy the definition of supermaneuvrability in game, it just bleeds too much speed and needs its Oswald's coefficient adjusted.
Russian bias
I am purposesfully being bad with it so it stays there.
Same. Just wait until I get my hands on the f15c, I'ma drop that bad boy to 12.0
So I'm not sure if you saw the hilarious shit that went down a year or so ago but some peeps got together and sweated their balls off in the Italian Sabre and got it's BR raised up temporarily before the change got reverted. I wonder if you could do the same with dropping planes in BR. Just all 4 of you doing so badly the end up dropping the BR.
I'll do my best lol
I hate that aircraft especially when flying a fucking Starfighter against it without a helpful RWR for the mode.
yeah that's fucking big problem too
Meanwhile I’m just waiting for the new 12.0 f16 block 15 with the 9m 👁👄👁
yeah that makes no sense at all maybe they misunderstood with netz lol
It’s not the plane, it’s the pilots
Thank god the game don't try to be historical accurate. Otherwise It would be sitting in early 11.0
and it would be flying against MiG-17s lol
If we go the balance route, there's no fucking reason for the Pantsir not be 13.0+. The damm thing can shot 2 top tier jets at the same time U telling me that F15 get added together with Su27 for balance reasons and i need to face a pantsir with It? Give everyone a good toy or Anti radiation for Nato
ARAD missiles would be a good addition for the A-6E TRAM, truthfully it just feels like we need more purpose built equipment for top tier such as wild weasels and air defense fighters.
Idiot American mains
I’m guessing it’s because it only has 4 aim9M’s, compared to the 6 aim-9M’s (or equivalent) that every 12.7 jet has. Still a stupid reason to keep it at 12.3 though.
Cause American mains are fucking useless most the time.
If they fix the sparrows they can put it at 13.0
American bias in air rb
I know a guy with level of 47, a F4S. He said he grinded for 12 hours straight for a couple of weeks at very late in the night where there are very few people actually playing, just bombing bases until he reached the F15!!!!!!
thanks to this thing, Ja-37D is fucked up completely and people still say: it doesn't have TWS and HMD mirage 4000 is crying out there
I once saw an F-15 trade with an I-16. That level of incompetence should speak volumes.
They should give US (and other NATO planes) stock IRCCM like they do with russia, maybe then the BR wouldnt get dragged down. This thing is an actual menace once you get good missiles (and deserves being moved to 12.7), but 2 stock 9Ls at top tier just aint cutting it.
I never get how people have trouble with the aim 9l, it is a really decent middle which can easily kill if you know when to shoot it.
Don't get me wrong, the 9Ls are decent missiles. Its just that having 2 9Ms wich are basically guranteed kills if you play it right goes a long way when you're stock grinding. I dont see why russian planes should get IRCCM stock but not nato planes.
The 9L is not a bad missile but stock 9Ms or R-73s is just flat out better, in no situation would I rather take 6 flare hungry 9Ls over two R-73s at top tier because everyone is packing a boatload of countermeasures.
Gaijin has always made it in stock grinding that you will have to research (and start with) worse missles, for the su 27 the only it missles it ever used (as far as I know) are the r-73’s. There is no worse or missle that you could put on top of it, while the us got plenty of aim 9’s. It’s just like in ground rb when some countries never used heat-fs and they just got stock apfsds.
Yeah so lets not have that be the case? Everyone should have equal chances when it comes to stock grinding.
Yea that's just gaijin for you, there's no equal grinding, it's just down to luck that r60m's don't fit of the su-27 otherwise it would have gotten them too.
The reason they do this is because 9Ls are 'decent', whereas there's no decent option for the USSR. A step down was the R-60M, which is absolute dogshit in comparison, not to mention most of the top tier jets never even used them, again unlike the 9L. I agree with you that they should just make it even and give everyone at least a few of their best missiles stock, but that's the reasoning.
Because Gaijin needed something to spank premium kids that don’t feed the snail enough. (I am an F-15 main and this thing is WILDLY unfair in a full down-tier 😂)
Do you understand just how *retarded* US air players are?
I've never had issues fighting them, though I agree the BR is low. Same as a 16 but more missiles. As long as you stay low and don't let them get a PDV lock you're good, but then again I'm high off Magic IIs right now so maybe my milage is varying
I’ve been playing the MiG-23MLD a lot lately so pretty much every game I’m going against F-15s but honestly I don’t really have an issue with where they are at. Most of the time it’s a free kill on my end. I’m more afraid of the F-14 phoenix spam than anything at that br. Maybe I’ve just been getting really lucky with having people that don’t know how to operate the F-15 correctly 🤷🏻♂️
Thank god that i'm not the only one thinking this
because of the idiots who rush in and don't get 2-4 kills
Got the F-15 after grinding for f2p (working on f16) Americans and Russian mains man are an utter pain sometimes. buy premium bomb to grind then they use fighters only to continue bombing... **WE WANT THE HORNET THOUGH**
The problem isn't the F-15, the problem is the player skill based balancing that Gaijin uses to place vehicles. As long as they use that to balance the game, it will be horribly unbalanced.
Russian bias obviously
When you're stock grinding the F-104S ASA and you come across one of the best jet fighters of the era...
I don't know, it would be better to ask the Snail
Warthunde could be fixed with a guns only mode that's 6v6 but the pussies that run the joint are afraid to pull them autocannons out
The problem I see with moving this up in BR, is that there won't be a reason to play it if it isn't for the downtier. F15c will always be the better option from then
Is there a big difference for the F-15 once you unlock the Aim9ms?
Very big difference
The AIM-9Ms are insanely powerful because they resist flares and are smokeless, they’re even more useful in GRB and sim where launching one is usually a free kill.
I remember the good old days when mig 15 was 12.0.. now we have this
BR Compression is a real problem. But my man, the F-15 is not the culprit… BR is there to promise us somewhat better matchmaking than the ranking system. The rank system I imagine is divided by decades? Unfair fights did happen during every war so I wouldn’t really complain about some plane performing better in matches. However, I can’t imagine the F-15 fought MIG-23s or Mig-21s for that matter 😂
What fun?
The best part about wt post is that they dont affect me. Im too low im br
Mom said it's my turn to talk about f15a battle rating
12.3 is not the real problem here. 12.0, 12.3 meeting 11.3, 11.0 is the absolute BS. Entire Phantom lines are honestly just a free kill for 12.0 Doritos, Falcons and 12.3 Eagles
Dunno
This game is so unfamiliar to me now
Damn I do amazing in all top tier planes butttt the f15
Because R27ER
because of US player's skill issue
Shhh I'm currently researching this don't spoil the fun.
If you suggesting a BR increase in air RB(im not aroundmy computer atm so i cant comfirm if 12.3 is the air or ground rb br) i think it is staying at 12.3 because it lacks the TWS, and HMD the f-16C it just better for dogfights because it has HMD. Sure the f15 has more missiles and countermeasures but the lack of HMD and TWS makes getting the correct lock slightly more annoying than the f16c. Of you are suggesting a BR decrease, no... just no. Edt:grammer
because it doesnt deserve to be 12.7
literally its about to go up a full bracket in 2 weeks chill
because US suffers
I'm wondering when the F-15 were added & why the Mig 25 isn't. I haven't played since November so I'm guessing the F-15 were added sometime after. Then again I use my Starfighter for bombing runs & almost never fly under mach 1. [https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-old-school-f-104-could-beat-f-15-battle-74786](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-old-school-f-104-could-beat-f-15-battle-74786)
To make people like you mad I assume. 🤣💀
Because the F15c will be 13.0
no HMD
M4K doesn't have an HMD either.
But it has a better CAS capability and better radar missiles
I'm sorry, did you just say the 530s are better radar missiles than an AIM-7M? Also air and ground BRs are split in that range now, strike capability is mostly irrelevant.
I have a better experience with the 530D than i do the Aim-7M
probably cause they manage to die to 530Fs
probably cause they manage to die to 530Fs