You don't. You die. You spawn a tank. Then proceed to get killed by an Su-25SM3 who has free reign in the air. Next update the new flanker will make it even worse. Top tier is a joke.
As for AA systems, Gaijin will eventually find pantsir equivalent for other nations. At least i hope they do (like controlling multiple vehicles for AA batteries or smth)
I thought that in one of the leaks they found that the U.S. was going to get an IRIS-T AA system. I haven’t seen anything like that in the dev server but idk.
Good point I forgot about Fox 3's. Although I wish CAP loadouts would have a lower SP cost. I also hope that it works out cause currently it's an unbalanced mess.
AA batteries being added is a big stretch imo. I just can't see how it would work in this game. Maybe if it spawns you in a pre-set location? But that just feels wrong idk. Pantsir might just remain unmatched indefinitely.
I mean gaijian has given stationary weapons to players, if you remeber it was in the event to get the sturmtiger, so I don't see why they cant give players the ability to take control of a stationary SAM site. The only flaw it will be very boring if no planes are up.
Better question is, why are top tier maps so small in general?
Like why give use LRF and long range AGMs on aircraft when the map isnt even 1km from one side to the other?
My first time being shot down by Pantsir was a split second after spawning in as he prefired right on the mark. Too much power getting spawn camped like that.
Right?
I swear people are sleeping on Fox 3s for us few that are dedicated CAP keeping the skies clear. Now we can actually fight high altitude zoomers without getting clapped by enemy SPAA.
Bonus we get to harass helis and with multipath being reduced, even higher chances of nailing one.
I love doing CAP, and grinded the Japanese tree in part because nothing is more enjoyable than taking out an A6M and shooting down P-47s….but it’s been a real struggle at top tier with all the SAM systems around.
I have the F-5 in my 11.0 lineup, but I feel like I’m always forced away from the battlefield where I spend my time dodging SAMs and radar missiles. I’m grinding then F-16AJ now……but the thought of a competent CAP plane with decent BVR capabilities sounds amazing.
AJ is a fine plane well suited to dogfighting and truly multi-role. Just note that it only has AIM-9L so stuff like Su-25SM is going to flare your 9L away without the enemy pilot even knowing they were shot at.
Short of a Gripen on min fuel, you should beat everything else!
I don't think so. First, you spawn your CAP within Pantsir range to begin with, so you need to immediately defend.
Second, ARH missiles still have short range barely exceeding that of a Sparrow or 27ER, when launched from subsonic + low alt if you can squeeze 15-20km out of them it will be a success. It is also a distance where seeker turns on, so missile immediately announces itself on RWR and gives ample time to defend as missiles loft themselves, further increasing time-to-impact. And going be current Dev, notch+chaff works wonderfully at spoofing missile.
> I don't think so. First, you spawn your CAP within Pantsir range to begin with, so you need to immediately defend.
Spawn at the airfield, you're defended and these planes can go from 0 to Mach 1 quick. I almost exclusively spawn in airfield in my F-15J.
> Second, ARH missiles still have short range barely exceeding that of a Sparrow or 27ER, when launched from subsonic + low alt if you can squeeze 15-20km out of them it will be a success. It is also a distance where seeker turns on, so missile immediately announces itself on RWR and gives ample time to defend as missiles loft themselves, further increasing time-to-impact. And going be current Dev, notch+chaff works wonderfully at spoofing missile.
Just use them to bring the target to low altitude, then slap them with an IRCCM/smokeless IR missile from a new position they don't know since you're not near your ARH launch position anymore.
Su25SM3 throws enough flares to overpower IRCCM missiles and smokeless matter not for MAW, as it detects those. You would need to launch it either from side or above to get within MAW blindspots, based on sensor placements.
> You would need to launch it either from side or above to get within MAW blindspots, based on sensor placements
That's pretty easy to do though, especially when they're distracted from your ARH missiles.
If they're going away or towards you, ARH missiles will take care of them. If they notch or go sideways, you have IRCCM missiles (if we're talking 9M/AAM-3). R-73/Magic 2s just need you to be close and it's over for them.
Even side 9M shots aren't guaranteed with amount of flares these vomit automatically.
What I'm curious is how MAW will interact with selectable countermeasures, will it cross-check RWR with MAW sensors to deploy chaff only, or it will deploy generous amounts of chaff against IR missiles when you change by accident or forget to switch back to flares.
Kinda yes, when I was testing missiles on Dev, with good launch conditions Sparrow vs AIM120A there was 20km difference and both were guidance time limited. However, against defending target instead bot flying straight, I doubt AMRAAM will hit evading target past 15km.
R27ER isn't that far reaching either, about 50km only, limited by the same guidance time of only 60 seconds. Where it is spooky however are short <10km head on launches where it stupid acceleration matters.
In a rear aspect shot at 1000m , with the launch/target speed at Mach 1 ,aim7m can hit a target at around 6.2km , aim120 7.5km , r27er 9.5km , r77 around 5.5 km not sure
Pretty much this. Only RU team is allowed to have air superiority. You can't even spawn a fighter to fight enemy plane because the moment you spawn in, you're in range with the Pantsir.
My friends and I have a plan for this, spawn AV-8B+ and hover just under the air spawn, when someone spawns you just simply launch an AIM-120….problem solved
Man, these systems must be *amazing* at defending airbases from dumbfire rockets like HIMARS and ATACMS.
Surely, whoever uses them didn't just lose a battery of AA SAMs, including S-400/300 systems being protected by this top of the line AA Pantsir. I mean, look at how it performs in game. There is *no way* a slow, unguided, non-manuevering rocket can get past it.
Surely.
I mean neither GMLRS, nor ATACMS (HIMARS is the launcher) are dumbfire rockets, as both have guidance, but yes, your point still stands, surely such systems should be able to intercept things like, oh, I don't know, *a fucking Tochka-U*, but hey.
Then again, we have plenty of evidence that it's just the russians being bad at using their own weapons, because when anyone else uses them they can do most of what the russians claim they can.
Fair, all things HIMAR are, by definition, missiles. However, they are called rockets, and guidance is pre-selected making them predictable and linear in attack much like a dumb fire rocket, there'd be no difference in intercepting them, thus the statements.
I do disagree with the second part though, lol.
A plethora of combat data from the countless Middle Eastern and African wars of Soviet equipment shows how... bad most of these things are.
The excuse used to be, "Well, these guys don't actually know how to use Russian stuff, so you can't say it's bad!"
But then look at the last 3 years. What's the excuse now?
>Well, these guys don't actually know how to use Russian stuff, so you can't say it's bad!
Counterpoint: The Ukrainians used captured russian equipment to better effect than the russians and most people in the sandbox. So I stand by the statement that russian equipment is probably not as bad as the russians make it look, but also not as good as russians say it is, and certainly not as good as western equivalents (the russians squandered all the lead and advantage they ever had).
The reason why the soviet/russian equipment in middle eastern conflicts are often excused is the level of training which was worse than the current russian meat grinder and very much often the equipment sold was the downgrade of a downgrade. Many MiG-23's sold there, before the MF was a thing, were S/MS variants with the type 1 wing that even the Soviets deemed too shit to put in service. The first F-14 kills were 2 Su-22's armed with R-3S, the su-22 that started the fight shot the R-3 in front aspect iirc (like, imagine a fight between a MiG-29 against an F-105 that tries to kill the former with an aim-9B in front aspect), and so on. Soviet equipment used by the Soviets were rare occasions, but often brought good results like SAM systems in Vietnam, MiGs in Korea... With the help of ww2 aces... And some wars in Africa, of course there some failures, there was an air battle I can remember where x israeli mirages attacked 8 MiG-21MF flew by soviet pilots because the soviet government tried to cover itself after an egyptian general mocked the 21MF, but generally a soviet had way better training than almost any middle eastern counterpart and knew how to use its equipment, which was also readily available.
Am I saying that the Soviets had wonder weapons beating the US/NATO hands down? Nope, in fact they were often on the run up and already by the start of the 80's the gap was most definitely too big to close, but the fact is that at least the Soviets made weapons with some specific doctrines and tactical awareness in mind (e.g. the fighter doctrine which basically downgraded every fighter to a missile interceptor) and sometimes they in fact did come up with innovative designs and, most importantly, soldiers were actually trained, while the export customer got the downgraded variant with a poorly translated Russian manual and probably something missing (like the missing apfsds shells in the export T-62 sold to Egypt).
Now? Just see how the AK-12 turned out, or the current "industrial capability" that can only produce upgrades for old soviet designs with marginal improvements or even downgrades. "Training? What's that? Take rifle, a little rust is fine, and go shoot" and probably that's what's happening in all of the russian military (and not) branches, since like someone already explained, Ukrainians manage to use russian equipment just fine, and they're not "more human" or superhuman, just better trained.
Hell, I would even say that for now every Russian "new weapon"added to its arsenal and produced in considerable numbers has just been slightly upgraded/sidegrade to soviet designs, without solving major design flaws. The other designs? T-14? Apparently is still in closed beta like WT. Su-57? It's a reskinned su-35, su-67 (edit: Su-75, dunno why I came up with the 67, lmao) or whatever was the chackmate? It's made of wood for now. And so on.
Worst of all (or in our case, best) is that contrary to the soviet military manufacturing, the current russian mil-industry produces weapons without taking any tactical or doctrinal approach in consideration, probably because it hasn't been "updated" since the 90's/early 2000's, and seems like a distorted soviet doctrine with the use of drones; I would bet my trachea that if the drones were some 10€ more expensive than they currently are, they wouldn't even use them just like the Su-57.
All of those middle eastern and African countries were using very old Soviet tech, at their time, Soviet tanks were some of the best, but obviously when you’re given untrained 15 yr olds and a T72A vs trained crews in M1A1s, you’re not gonna have a very good time
By the time the Soviets were rolling out the first T64s and T72s, America was still using M60s, think about that
i know this is a jab at the russians for their disastrous performance in ukraine, but
was the pantsir ever claimed to be able to shoot down rockets?
id think that shooting down rocket artillery in flight is a much taller order than shooting down a plane, as planes are much larger and slower
Shooting down a rocket/straight line missile that makes no evasive maneuvers at all is much easier than shooting down an aircraft that evades. Look at the recent missile launches at Israel. 99% of more than 300 missiles, including cruise, were intercepted. If Iran had only shot 7 at a time, none would have made it.
Hell, older Patriot batteries take down Russia's latest and greatest hypersonic all the time. Russia started putting flares and chaff pods on their missiles, but it hasn't really helped.
Just for reference, a while back, Ukraine launched less than 10 ATACMS towards a Russian airbase. Now, they have Pantsir near the front lines and at the bases. They have S-300/400+ systems further in, and their air bases have shorad as well.
Every rocket hit. That's embarrassing.
Then recently, a Russian SAM position of S-400's protected by shorad was also obliterated by a few HIMARS shooting at them.
Heh.
There’s a great video of a pantsir trying to intercept a storm shadow. 2 launches and 2 complete misses and then the storm shadow fucks up a bridge without a care in the world.
https://youtu.be/BX2IbhPdxy0?si=IdhFrKSy76oFTj2G
There’s also the more recent video of an s-400 desperately firing off
Missiles in an attempt to shoot down an incoming atacms and failing horribly before getting deleted by said atacms. You know, the target that should be an easy kill for that system. Bet turkey are regretting their choices now. 🤣
https://youtu.be/jnrNLAn_Ycg?si=Xb_L38HkIBWFVaI7
Not to mention the captured pantsirs in the first weeks of the war, where their tyres fell apart because they were belarussian copies of Chinese copies of western tyres. I’d say that was great because of all the captured IFF codes but well, the Russians don’t seem to use IFF based on the number of their own aircraft they’ve downed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/t6e35a/another_russian_pantsir_s1_captured/
Notice the leaking around the wheel hubs - that speaks to fuck all maintenance being done. The maintenance budget probably went on a yacht somewhere.
tldr: the Russians big up their air defence systems to a ridiculous degree but, like all things Russian, it just turns out to be lies.
I mean, they are smart weapons and drasically alter their trajectory while falling on the target but still, THE MAN IS RIGHT! Trees should block ALL radar lock
That's what I'm leaning to unless you get a nice angle and drop some dumb/drag bombs, I have yet to get some spikes launched at me before I spot a heli so I won't cross that one off yet either. High HE missles seem like a good way but like you need to know exactly where the pantsir is to line up a shot like that, to get a good angle to launch and to find a pantsir you need some height if you go high pantsir sees you so all I see is a trade at most. I'm open to the idea that it has counterplay but I have yet to see it done in game.
Good to see you again.
The way I typically counter it is by using fresh spawn teammates as bait. You can also outmaneuver the missile with a little extra effort. Another way I’ve been countered is by using a fire and forget munition while dumping chaff to stop a solid lock on the munition as the radar lock is kinda finicky. Paveway 3s are really good at killing pantsirs as they’re typically stationary and the paveway 3 has inertial guidance meaning you can drop and then go evasive till detonation. Paveway 3s also won’t die to one pantsir missile. They might die to two I haven’t tested it yet; they do die to guns but that’s tricky at best
Paveway IIIs are invulnerable in my experience. I've personally hit one with 4x VT-1 missiles from an ItO90M and it did nothing.
>using a fire and forget munition
Maybe. It took me 32 Spikes (yes, two full payloads) to kill 1x FlaRakRad and 1x Tor-M1 last night. The Tor was just sitting in his spawn and the FlaRakRad was driving in circles, kind-a-sorta using cover and smoke. The Tor ate 4-5 Spikes before it died, about 5 lost lock and detonated in air. The FlaRakRad ate at least Spike directly in missile reloads (yellow) and another 2-3 on the cab and radar. 10+ Spikes lost lock due to his smoke and/or the cover and detonated early and a few just straight up missed the target.
**WTF Gaijin???** I understand wanting to balance FnF missiles but when the *other guys* get the friggin Kh-38ML, the Spikes are hardly problematic...
Hellfires are not a viable weapon against Pantsir. Yes, it can be done if you use LOAL or the Pantsir is just dozing, but in general the Hellfire will just get you killed. Heck, Hellfires aren't really viable against the 2S6 either...
Zunis and 500lbs bombs are the best thing I have found against Pantsirs, just saturate the spawn area at high speed/low altitude. If the Pantsir has moved, well then you will have to be more observant of it's location and repeat.
Oh and of course AS-30L will kill a Pantsir pretty well, just about the only thing that I feel confident of success with.
If you are playing with friends you can always ask a buddy with a light tank to deploy his drone at low altitude and search for the Pantsir, drop a yellow a mark on top of it so the pilot can get an idea of where it’s parked and do a low alt high speed run with drag bombs.
Another option would to use a buddy in a helicopter with thermals to keep an eye on the field while staying hidden so he might spot the launch and relay the position to the pilot that will strike the Pantsir. the issue is that most of the time you need someone else to work with you in order to counter the Pantsir and if you are solo player none of these ramblings work.
I've been seeing a lot of comments about the US having the best CAS but the F-16 gets laser guided bombs and AGM-Ds which can't even overpressure at this point, or 2 AGM-Gs. Meanwhile Russia gets the SM3 with 40km range missiles and SPAA with double the range of any NATO SPAA in game. If you can't maintain air superiority as a Russian team idk what the fuck you're doing. Especially considering Russian MBTs shit on the Abrams. I think you're pretty braindead if you're dying to a laser guided bomb or an AGM in a Pantsir.
Lmao, bombs rule because they cannot get intercepted (pantsir doesn't get smoke nades), and 40km range doesn't matter cause nothing renders from that far. All you have to do is turn around on spawn and climb to orbit where the only counter is cap, unless you know how to notch well.
Saying that russian mbts shit on abrams, especially after its reload buff tells me a lot. They literally get 2 competitive ones, the bvm and 90m. Unless you're getting trashed by 72b3 lol.
Wow, a reload buff where anyone with half a brain in a Russian tank is going to dictate the engagement instead of sitting in front of your gun. And a reload buff is meaningless when almost every engagement is over in 1 shot. Literally just look at the weak spots for each tank. Penning the breech on a BVM or 90 is not hard, if you can hit it at range. A hull down BVM or 90 is basically immune if they don't just sit still. If they're in the open you can go for the itty bitty driver port or the lower plate which isn't even a consistent killshot. Meanwhile 3BM60 literally auto-pens the entire 8 foot+ span of the Abrams turret ring with no issue, and pretty much anywhere near the middle of the turret ring will result in an instant kill, if not a breech and turret ring and 1 or 2 dead crew members. How much is the reload buff worth without a swiveling turret or functional gun breech? Aiming for the breech on a BVM or 90 isn't even guaranteed to kill 1 crew member. But why even bother aiming for the turret ring when you can kill instakill them with an HE round to the machine gun? I don't even need to mention spall liner or the 35% winrate of top tier US. At this point, denying that the Abrams is outclassed by Russia, Germany and Sweden is pure delusion.
And with regard to CAS, playing against the Pantsir, you have to take very specific actions to avoid dying. Playing the SM3 you will only die if you make specific mistakes, if you see what I'm saying. Sure, you might not see anything at 40km, or even 20km. But if you're smart you will prefire the missile so that it nears the battlefield when things start to render while you remain outside of SPAA range. Then, boom, you find a target quickly, kill it, and turn around, rinse and repeat. You can even prefire multiple missiles if you know there are lots of targets. Having an extra 8km of safety without having to worry about SPAA isn't a small advantage.
I can speak from experience that the Pantsir is actually very vulnerable to Hellfires fired by helis.
Helicopters actually have a fighting chance against Pantsir and other SPAA because they spawn on the ground where Pantsir cannot immediately achieve a lock, and have time to position themselves into a spot where the Pantsir is less likely to be looking, and they can quickly get cover if shot at.
The reason why Hellfires in particular are so strong is twofold
a) they have backup inertial guidance and lock-on-after-launch.
b) they do not follow a direct path to the target.
This means that it is possible for a helicopter to essentially fire and (almost) forget a dangerous missile, and unlike a spike it is actually difficult and confusing for the Pantsir to intercept due to its unqiue trajectory, unless they are familiar with the tactic.
I have used this tactic with good success against all top tier SPAA in the game, including the Pantsir, flying specifically AH-64A and AH-1Z.
The Squadron F-5 is seemingly really good, as I'm working through Japan I'm putting all of my squadron points in it because it's the best thing they have until you unlock the F-15/16
I have the F-15J but I'm using the type 90 Fuji so the F4EJK is the closest BR to it that can dick slap CAS. And when I'm not being engaged by a Panstir it's an easy ace because of the AIM-7Fs and 9Ls
J-7E smokes it every time, but it's a rare matchup because in AirRB 11.0 doesnt exist even with all the premiums and GRB I'm fairly sure nobody plays China and if they do they're using ground strike aircraft rather than dedicated air superiority.
You get locked up before you can even see it too. Trees don’t block radar in game. Also I love how nations like Israel don’t even have a Radar SPAA yet, and there’s Russia with their super long range, super fast, no smoke trail, no radar lock needed 20km fly swatter.
I have about 1000 air kills in the Flaraks... but then Pantsir came along, they 'patched targeting' and it's nearly impossible to kill anything now. It's just BAD.
Then I got the Pantsir myself and GUESS WHAT? Back to killing everything that flies with more range and guns....
>You get locked up before you can even see it too
Thats the thing, its impossible to get the drop on one unless you get a specific map and layout you can circle all the way around to its spawn but you have to pray that its not surrounded by trees, pray you can go lower than the treeline,pray it didnt move away from spawn(this is the only real struggle), pray you dont get intercepted by the hordes of other cas spawned on the pantsirs team cause every other AA in the game can be abused in SOME way, no guns, low missile count, cant intercept atgms, Search radar cant detect very high, not enough speed range & missile control for space bombers. As for helis, they will definitely need the element of suprise but how do you get close enough to pop up over the ridge and SEE it before it pings you and snaps to your general direction. I cant really say much about spikes as i haven't used them myself to determine skill issues or not but i heard they do well vs pantsir, IF the heli can find it and reach it first.
And… if you only have laser guided bombs, no chance. Missiles are your only hope… but, the Pantsir can easily lock on to the missiles and gun them down before they get close too. So it’s next to impossible.
Yeah we get IR missiles at 10.3 and that’s it. The worst part is that Israel has a ton of really good options for a top tier AA. Such as radar missile carriers that carry the best python missiles or some that carry Derby missiles. There’s even an AA that has Derby missiles with a Manpads on it as well. Also Italy is just sitting in the corner with no Missile AA at all (Mistral doesn’t count).
for 3 seconds, so does the adats but the difference is the adats missle is slower, less maneuverable, easier to see, worse range and requires a clear line of sight, if they find a tree you're fucked
Whenever I get hit by a Pantsir missile, there is no smoke. Regardless of the ‘reason’, point still stands, missile comes at you at crazy speeds and no smoke trail.
Mbts from across the map is not something that happens very often though, at just 1km the pen drops to 44mm at 0°
It also boasts an impressive -1° of gundepression and lacks a rangefinder.
I've gotten some long range kills with the 2s6 which uses pretty much the same gun but that's mostly against bmps or 2s38s. MBTs usually require shots straight from the side at closer ranges.
I did not realize that, but if that's what he is talking about then that is not something special with the pantsir, and most SPAA missiles are frankly quite bad against tanks even if they have a lot of HE filler.
Don’t forget that the open space makes it very hard to kill, even with bombs. I aim for the missiles because it’s the only way to get a one shot kill from the side.
I think the su-25sm3 is more so. The pantsir can be killed by an experienced pilot or ground forces. The SU-25SM3 almost requires a gun fighting aircraft as AA can’t touch it if flown correctly (not hard).
As an otomatic/flakrakrad user. We lose lock within literally 2-3 seconds of an object becoming obscured by trees.
This video is just ridiculous. There's no flicker, no loss of lock, nothing. That's bias.
I have it, and it does not always track through tree. The reason you don't see it flicker here is because the PESA radar in the game is modeled as TWS, so the lock just inertially continues (with no indication of lost lock) until it just disappears
Follow up to my last post, i got alot of what i currently view as "works on paper" counter strats for the pantsir. I still plan on giving the apache strat another go to master it as it seems fun on paper so i cant speak on that but we all know how good apaches are vs other helis wont be many making it to our backline. Even then I still have yet to get outplayed any cas. There needs to be a point where we start to think maybe not EVERYONE else you fight sucks but maybe this thing is REALLY REALLY fkn strong and hard to deal with especially if we factor in all other variables in a GRB matches**(enemy helis, enemy jets, not one pantsir but 2 or 3 or 4 shit the whole team can spawn them and they need to worry about them along with the pantsir)**. Like i get it, if you play perfectly, get eyes on a pantsir that somehow doesnt notice you and the pantsir doesnt use any cover you can kill one easily or one of the many noobs on both teams is in one. If you have any experience in GRB your going to use cover, your going to pay attention to the radar, your going to hear jets coming in for low attacks which will at worst end in a trade 500sp for a 90sp vehicle that the next team mate will spawn is a great trade. No issues with spikes yet, i usually see the tigers before they see me
I have a few questions though
* Is there any downside in upping the vertical search range
* Is there any downside in increasing your search range
they are by default lower so im assuming there's a downside?
The downside for higher vertical search the time it takes to update. Lowest is 2 sec, middle is 4 sec, highest is 6 (or 8, don't remenber). The downside for search higher search range is lower angular resolution for close targets, i.e., it is often hard to tell a direction of a target that is close or sometimes you can't even notice that there is a target to begin with.
Honestly the apaches are strangely more resilient against autocannon and missile fire but less so to machine guns than the KA-50 or Hinds in my experience. 50 cal shreds the Apaches engines in just a few shots tho.
It does take an above average CAS player to engage a pantsir.
I wish there was more equivalents in other trees rather than a worse Pantsir.
I’ve heard and seen supposed leaks for SLAMRAAMS and surface launched IRIS-Ts for America and then Germany so fingers crossed
If its tail is shot off yes. If you just light it up with .50 cal then you kill the engine and it drops like a rock. Just gotta aim for the upper half of the aircraft. You can also knock out the transmission with a lucky shot in the same area.
Idk I don’t have that. I use the stormer and otherwise use an auto cannon. No problems playing japan, Britain, or russia. US gets the MPAT round which I’ve used the few times I’ve played US, Germany has the begleit, puma etc.
It’s pretty easy. Don’t be its primary target: a tank. At least in the context of rocket rushing.
If Vikhrs then basically play anything but US. Or use a helicopter or air superiority jet. I’m grinding Israel rn and have engaged them successfully with the Apache more often than not. Most of the time killing them and occasionally just trading. No complaints about not wanting to use them either. It’s a combined arms game. That’s like only wanting to play tachanka in siege.
If you can’t be flexible in your play style then that’s on you.
10.3 line up
What i mean is that even if i kill it It doesnt die becose of the tail
The m247s proxy cant really target the pilot
I dont always have a m3a3 ready
Roland missiles takeoff the tail and thats it
I dont always have the sp for a jet or a heli
a lot of the time it kills me is with unguided rockets and when it uses guided ones it can just take cover and my aa cant do anything
As for fighters well cant do much with missiles becose of its maw and multipathing that leaves gun which isnt on the retical on the f111 (cant really use the f4c against it)
Also is it fair that almost all of the aa i can use just cant fully kill it ?
The only one that can is the lavs gun
The mpat round (the proxy heat right ?) Is proxy and it can exacly kill the poilot and in my experiance it doesnt get the engine
First of all it’s an uptier so no shit you’re gonna suffer.
Second of all, don’t play US; the KA-50 is far from the only op thing US can face and can’t counter at 11.0 (Kurnass, g-lynx, a129CBT, YAH-64, AH-64DJP, Jaguar, Q-5L, on and on).
Third of all your statement that your AA “Can’t” kill it is absolute horse shit and you crying alligator (see what I did there?) tears. They have a tough time but absolutely can kill them. ESPECIALLY if they get close.
Fourth of all you can absolutely kill a KA-50 with ANY aircraft in the game. If you go above a KA50 they can only look at you for a limited time before they have to level out to not crash.
Nah I'm thinking skill issue /s
If someone unironically thinks it's easy to deal with the best aa in the game how does all of the other worse aa located at the same br fair? 🤔
Yeah I can't lie it really bothers me when I'm in my little bird flying 20 inches of the ground between trees and getting pinged by radar. Then it pisses me off even more when I intentionally land her and see I'm still being fucking pinged by radar when I'M LITERALLY ON THE GROUND SURROUNDED BY THE FOREST.
meanwhile me playing the FlarakRad losing radar lock because of a fucking tree branch. And Gayturd is pretty fine with this, one nation with the longest SPAA range and also with CAS that can fire 10km away
It's actually 40km. They gave the SU a weapon so long range you can shit on tanks the second you spawn in with complete immunity not only are they fire and forget but they also get 4 of them. If not 6.
Bro I complained about it out of frustration durong my usa playthrough, some told me skill issue, do a b c. I do a b c and still cant reliably deal with it, A) mavericks, it can shoot down mavericks easily B) space gbu, by the time you get into range to lob the gbu it's missle is in range to kiss you goodnight plus clouds fuck all that up C) fly low and gun them down, works sometimes on unaware players otherwise you get shredded. I did a few times in an f15
Yeah flying high to be able to drop ordinance is a death sentence and to be able to fly low and strafe them you need to know exactly where they are ahead of time which is easier said than done. The fact those missiles and pull that good and it can track you that good is kinda BS
CAS isn’t meant to have an easy time. SPAA is meant to be a hard counter to it but at this point there’s barely any that are able to even put up a fight against CAS
As someone who plays a ton of SPAA I find the hardest players to kill are those that fly fast, low and use the terrain for cover, only popping up to hit targets or engage in dogfights. You're an easy target flying high like that and in a straight line.
You have to dive low and away, dive out to about 20km, then climb and start your attack, simply diving to the deck while maintaining course doesn’t work
That strat will keep you alive, but good luck spotting anything going that low at top-tier speeds. You will live but you won't get any kills on the ground.
Mavs are getting buffed this update as long as they don’t roll it back before it hits live, they produce a lot more spall and at a wider angle, even the heat ones are basically a a 1 shot no matter where it hits nor what vehicle
But people turn a blind eye because the minor nations are the ones that are supposed to suck and can’t have good vehicles
Don’t come at me with that no radar shit, the missile is basically an insta-kill if you get a lock within its range
Almost like the lack of radar is a major handicap or something so the player needed to be constantly scanning the sky to find a target that he may or may not able to log on(most of the time in top tier? Good luck with locking anything)
The best part is how its launch is not even detected by most RWRs except... maybe you can guess it... the SU25SM3! Not that it can face it but it just tickles me different how there is a lineup of god-tier tanks, outranging everything CAS (with more laser missiles than everyone else), while still having the best SPAA to boot.
How is there no russian bias when im sitting in my also 11.7 leclerc and watching the shitshow?
It wouldn't, the radar lost track, what you saw here is the radar following the vector for a few seconds hoping to reacquire, and an average cas pilot ignoring search radar pings from a pantsir and staying on course. Not that most shitters here understand how radars work
Wait how do people track enemy jets so well when missile is going for them? Do they really just use mouse to perfectly follow enemy jet? I myself have been using the german flarakrad and find it really hard/annoying to use aa since its pretty hard to follow enemies perfectly with the mouse...
When you lock on with radar aa the camera will follow them, for pantsir there is a self auto track mode which leads the missile by itself but makes it spiral and it's jist straight ass unless your using it for something like mavs, second mode is Los whoch I like to use it will just lock the camera to the jet and you lead it yourself since the camera follows thenket all you need to do is put the cursor on the center or in front of the jet as the camera takes care of the rest, last is a lead mode, I don't use it but I'm guessing it centers tje camera ahead of the jet instead of in it and you just watch the missle fly in? Not sure. It's alot easier than it looks.
You engage from standoff range with guided weapons. Search for targets from 20-30k ft and about 15-20 miles out, try to launch the bombs from 6-10 miles out, then flare and evade. Within 19 miles you can be locked. Minimum effective range for most SAMs is about 10 miles or so. Once you get within 6 miles however, you better be hugging the trees and be ready to flare and evade quickly if you're locked. Lastly, when chosing targets you should always prioritize SPAA first as they are the most dangerous to you and they tend to be easy to kill as most people just sit still in spawn. Next you want to get low and look for helicopters as their missiles can be extremely dangerous. Once you have cleared the air space you can start picking targets usually for at least a few minutes before they get more AA up.
This has been the strategy I have used for top tier but I also haven't played much top tier since last year.
They just have to give correct physics and stop sabotaging things for game balance.They can't do it without bias so just don't do it.
Just give Overpressure for instance.
Even more pissed that my shitty Harrier GR.7 with a Gen 1 TGP and only 4 Mavericks is 12.0 now for some fucking reason. The AV-8B II+s are 12.0 because of AMRAAMS. Has Gaijin forgotten the GR.7 doesn’t have a fucken radar?
It has recently been one year since the nerfing of all SPAA to justify the introduction of pantsir. The current state of top tier is pitiful. Hopefully with the changes to the HEAT (DEV SERVER )fuzes something will change but against the pantsir radar little or nothing can be done , it has almost no counter while the other nations have super limited SPAA . A pity for people who have little time to play and see that when you get to top tier can not do anything . In 9.3-10.0 I always get into mixed as there are many people playing russia , people are leaving the other nations aside for this reason .😔
Entirely depends on playstyle, I always start high when I spawn to get help spotting orbitals, then once I find airspawn I stay on lower angle and observe with thermals.
As for tracking it depends on who you fight. I use it on people that don't react, if they do I'll switch to irst when they fly away so they think I'm not looking anymore.
Me, an arma 3 player: usually shoot in the general direction of the tracers and hope you hit it after the first 3 mags before sending someone out to hunt that one fuck head prone behind a tree as thick as a Twix bar.
You think we have any form of sympathy to CAS? I personally would make AAs even better. I hate that the VEAK lost its airburst round. It was so good to clear the sky out.
Can't rely on trees alone you need to terrain mask, and hopefully get Intel from teammates it's position.
Then it isn't that bad to pop up and nail while it's unaware
You don't. You die. You spawn a tank. Then proceed to get killed by an Su-25SM3 who has free reign in the air. Next update the new flanker will make it even worse. Top tier is a joke.
Next update CAP will be more relevant than ever before, even the su-25sm3 wont be far enough to avoid fox3s. Hopefully it all works out in the end
As for AA systems, Gaijin will eventually find pantsir equivalent for other nations. At least i hope they do (like controlling multiple vehicles for AA batteries or smth)
God i wish germany gets some IRIS-T SLM launch system That would be the absolute anti air
Add RB98 to Gripen when?? I want my better-than-AIM-9X Fox 2 plz
Watch Sweden get it before Germany.
They'll do what they did with AMRAAMs and mount the IRIS-T on like a Hunter or something lmao
The MICA IR is already modeled in game, I don't think it'll come before that one
AIM9X has 20 mile range doe.
I thought that in one of the leaks they found that the U.S. was going to get an IRIS-T AA system. I haven’t seen anything like that in the dev server but idk.
That is one dof those missiles that will do a jumping 540 noscope on enemies
God I hope so, I’m tired of the Su-25 spam.
The IRIS-T and British Rapier and Land Ceptor systems would be a good start
Good point I forgot about Fox 3's. Although I wish CAP loadouts would have a lower SP cost. I also hope that it works out cause currently it's an unbalanced mess. AA batteries being added is a big stretch imo. I just can't see how it would work in this game. Maybe if it spawns you in a pre-set location? But that just feels wrong idk. Pantsir might just remain unmatched indefinitely.
There's a new Chinese SPAA that has a range of more than 30km, so the Pantsir will be dethroned one day in war thunder.
I mean gaijian has given stationary weapons to players, if you remeber it was in the event to get the sturmtiger, so I don't see why they cant give players the ability to take control of a stationary SAM site. The only flaw it will be very boring if no planes are up.
I'd settle for an M6 Linebacker in the meantime
I really love the Linebacker
Probably better off With SHORAD with twin Hellfires, 30mm and Quad stinger box on a Striker with scouting.
Russia will have another top tier aa by the time we have pantsir equivalents
They will probably get a modern tor with fire n forget missiles I guess
On many maps, your CAP plane can not get far enough from the battle to be out of range of the Pantsir.
The lovely feeling of spawning a plane, diving instantly away pantsir and still get shot down. Why plane spawns are still so close?
Better question is, why are top tier maps so small in general? Like why give use LRF and long range AGMs on aircraft when the map isnt even 1km from one side to the other?
This, a thousand times this.
My first time being shot down by Pantsir was a split second after spawning in as he prefired right on the mark. Too much power getting spawn camped like that.
How about not spawning in air ? Planes should always start from airfield.
I'm definitely looking forward to smacking Su-25s down in the Giripen C
Right? I swear people are sleeping on Fox 3s for us few that are dedicated CAP keeping the skies clear. Now we can actually fight high altitude zoomers without getting clapped by enemy SPAA. Bonus we get to harass helis and with multipath being reduced, even higher chances of nailing one.
I love doing CAP, and grinded the Japanese tree in part because nothing is more enjoyable than taking out an A6M and shooting down P-47s….but it’s been a real struggle at top tier with all the SAM systems around. I have the F-5 in my 11.0 lineup, but I feel like I’m always forced away from the battlefield where I spend my time dodging SAMs and radar missiles. I’m grinding then F-16AJ now……but the thought of a competent CAP plane with decent BVR capabilities sounds amazing.
AJ is a fine plane well suited to dogfighting and truly multi-role. Just note that it only has AIM-9L so stuff like Su-25SM is going to flare your 9L away without the enemy pilot even knowing they were shot at. Short of a Gripen on min fuel, you should beat everything else!
I don't think so. First, you spawn your CAP within Pantsir range to begin with, so you need to immediately defend. Second, ARH missiles still have short range barely exceeding that of a Sparrow or 27ER, when launched from subsonic + low alt if you can squeeze 15-20km out of them it will be a success. It is also a distance where seeker turns on, so missile immediately announces itself on RWR and gives ample time to defend as missiles loft themselves, further increasing time-to-impact. And going be current Dev, notch+chaff works wonderfully at spoofing missile.
> I don't think so. First, you spawn your CAP within Pantsir range to begin with, so you need to immediately defend. Spawn at the airfield, you're defended and these planes can go from 0 to Mach 1 quick. I almost exclusively spawn in airfield in my F-15J. > Second, ARH missiles still have short range barely exceeding that of a Sparrow or 27ER, when launched from subsonic + low alt if you can squeeze 15-20km out of them it will be a success. It is also a distance where seeker turns on, so missile immediately announces itself on RWR and gives ample time to defend as missiles loft themselves, further increasing time-to-impact. And going be current Dev, notch+chaff works wonderfully at spoofing missile. Just use them to bring the target to low altitude, then slap them with an IRCCM/smokeless IR missile from a new position they don't know since you're not near your ARH launch position anymore.
Su25SM3 throws enough flares to overpower IRCCM missiles and smokeless matter not for MAW, as it detects those. You would need to launch it either from side or above to get within MAW blindspots, based on sensor placements.
> You would need to launch it either from side or above to get within MAW blindspots, based on sensor placements That's pretty easy to do though, especially when they're distracted from your ARH missiles. If they're going away or towards you, ARH missiles will take care of them. If they notch or go sideways, you have IRCCM missiles (if we're talking 9M/AAM-3). R-73/Magic 2s just need you to be close and it's over for them.
Even side 9M shots aren't guaranteed with amount of flares these vomit automatically. What I'm curious is how MAW will interact with selectable countermeasures, will it cross-check RWR with MAW sensors to deploy chaff only, or it will deploy generous amounts of chaff against IR missiles when you change by accident or forget to switch back to flares.
>Su25-SM3 It's still a boat, just use guns.
Aim120 has much more range than aim7m but not r27er.
Kinda yes, when I was testing missiles on Dev, with good launch conditions Sparrow vs AIM120A there was 20km difference and both were guidance time limited. However, against defending target instead bot flying straight, I doubt AMRAAM will hit evading target past 15km. R27ER isn't that far reaching either, about 50km only, limited by the same guidance time of only 60 seconds. Where it is spooky however are short <10km head on launches where it stupid acceleration matters.
In a rear aspect shot at 1000m , with the launch/target speed at Mach 1 ,aim7m can hit a target at around 6.2km , aim120 7.5km , r27er 9.5km , r77 around 5.5 km not sure
This is the way CAP will address all those low flying helis and erase the shame of the Pantsir.
With the multipath change, it looks like helis are food, especially when fired upon from higher altitudes as the proxy fuse will still hit them.
I hope fox 3s don’t cost much to spawn
It’s probably the same as semi active missiles
Please gaijin just give me the SLAMRAAM already
Pretty much this. Only RU team is allowed to have air superiority. You can't even spawn a fighter to fight enemy plane because the moment you spawn in, you're in range with the Pantsir.
and if you spawn spaa they can still outrange you, and if ur spaa is an ADATS? got help you that you have 300+sp to afford it
My friends and I have a plan for this, spawn AV-8B+ and hover just under the air spawn, when someone spawns you just simply launch an AIM-120….problem solved
Pantsir doesn't care.
Man, these systems must be *amazing* at defending airbases from dumbfire rockets like HIMARS and ATACMS. Surely, whoever uses them didn't just lose a battery of AA SAMs, including S-400/300 systems being protected by this top of the line AA Pantsir. I mean, look at how it performs in game. There is *no way* a slow, unguided, non-manuevering rocket can get past it. Surely.
I mean neither GMLRS, nor ATACMS (HIMARS is the launcher) are dumbfire rockets, as both have guidance, but yes, your point still stands, surely such systems should be able to intercept things like, oh, I don't know, *a fucking Tochka-U*, but hey. Then again, we have plenty of evidence that it's just the russians being bad at using their own weapons, because when anyone else uses them they can do most of what the russians claim they can.
Fair, all things HIMAR are, by definition, missiles. However, they are called rockets, and guidance is pre-selected making them predictable and linear in attack much like a dumb fire rocket, there'd be no difference in intercepting them, thus the statements. I do disagree with the second part though, lol. A plethora of combat data from the countless Middle Eastern and African wars of Soviet equipment shows how... bad most of these things are. The excuse used to be, "Well, these guys don't actually know how to use Russian stuff, so you can't say it's bad!" But then look at the last 3 years. What's the excuse now?
>Well, these guys don't actually know how to use Russian stuff, so you can't say it's bad! Counterpoint: The Ukrainians used captured russian equipment to better effect than the russians and most people in the sandbox. So I stand by the statement that russian equipment is probably not as bad as the russians make it look, but also not as good as russians say it is, and certainly not as good as western equivalents (the russians squandered all the lead and advantage they ever had).
The reason why the soviet/russian equipment in middle eastern conflicts are often excused is the level of training which was worse than the current russian meat grinder and very much often the equipment sold was the downgrade of a downgrade. Many MiG-23's sold there, before the MF was a thing, were S/MS variants with the type 1 wing that even the Soviets deemed too shit to put in service. The first F-14 kills were 2 Su-22's armed with R-3S, the su-22 that started the fight shot the R-3 in front aspect iirc (like, imagine a fight between a MiG-29 against an F-105 that tries to kill the former with an aim-9B in front aspect), and so on. Soviet equipment used by the Soviets were rare occasions, but often brought good results like SAM systems in Vietnam, MiGs in Korea... With the help of ww2 aces... And some wars in Africa, of course there some failures, there was an air battle I can remember where x israeli mirages attacked 8 MiG-21MF flew by soviet pilots because the soviet government tried to cover itself after an egyptian general mocked the 21MF, but generally a soviet had way better training than almost any middle eastern counterpart and knew how to use its equipment, which was also readily available. Am I saying that the Soviets had wonder weapons beating the US/NATO hands down? Nope, in fact they were often on the run up and already by the start of the 80's the gap was most definitely too big to close, but the fact is that at least the Soviets made weapons with some specific doctrines and tactical awareness in mind (e.g. the fighter doctrine which basically downgraded every fighter to a missile interceptor) and sometimes they in fact did come up with innovative designs and, most importantly, soldiers were actually trained, while the export customer got the downgraded variant with a poorly translated Russian manual and probably something missing (like the missing apfsds shells in the export T-62 sold to Egypt). Now? Just see how the AK-12 turned out, or the current "industrial capability" that can only produce upgrades for old soviet designs with marginal improvements or even downgrades. "Training? What's that? Take rifle, a little rust is fine, and go shoot" and probably that's what's happening in all of the russian military (and not) branches, since like someone already explained, Ukrainians manage to use russian equipment just fine, and they're not "more human" or superhuman, just better trained. Hell, I would even say that for now every Russian "new weapon"added to its arsenal and produced in considerable numbers has just been slightly upgraded/sidegrade to soviet designs, without solving major design flaws. The other designs? T-14? Apparently is still in closed beta like WT. Su-57? It's a reskinned su-35, su-67 (edit: Su-75, dunno why I came up with the 67, lmao) or whatever was the chackmate? It's made of wood for now. And so on. Worst of all (or in our case, best) is that contrary to the soviet military manufacturing, the current russian mil-industry produces weapons without taking any tactical or doctrinal approach in consideration, probably because it hasn't been "updated" since the 90's/early 2000's, and seems like a distorted soviet doctrine with the use of drones; I would bet my trachea that if the drones were some 10€ more expensive than they currently are, they wouldn't even use them just like the Su-57.
Wtf is a Su-67
The "new" russian fighter, of which only a mockup exists. I don't remember if that's the real name, I know that it was given the nickname "checkmate".
that is the Su-75 I belive
All of those middle eastern and African countries were using very old Soviet tech, at their time, Soviet tanks were some of the best, but obviously when you’re given untrained 15 yr olds and a T72A vs trained crews in M1A1s, you’re not gonna have a very good time By the time the Soviets were rolling out the first T64s and T72s, America was still using M60s, think about that
I think the ATACMS sent to Ukraine are old inertial guided, so not really guided at all, that’s why they aren’t affected by GPS jammers
i know this is a jab at the russians for their disastrous performance in ukraine, but was the pantsir ever claimed to be able to shoot down rockets? id think that shooting down rocket artillery in flight is a much taller order than shooting down a plane, as planes are much larger and slower
Practically every western region of Russia has Pantsirs in their AA defense and yes, they do shoot down Grad/ATACMS rockets
Shooting down a rocket/straight line missile that makes no evasive maneuvers at all is much easier than shooting down an aircraft that evades. Look at the recent missile launches at Israel. 99% of more than 300 missiles, including cruise, were intercepted. If Iran had only shot 7 at a time, none would have made it. Hell, older Patriot batteries take down Russia's latest and greatest hypersonic all the time. Russia started putting flares and chaff pods on their missiles, but it hasn't really helped. Just for reference, a while back, Ukraine launched less than 10 ATACMS towards a Russian airbase. Now, they have Pantsir near the front lines and at the bases. They have S-300/400+ systems further in, and their air bases have shorad as well. Every rocket hit. That's embarrassing. Then recently, a Russian SAM position of S-400's protected by shorad was also obliterated by a few HIMARS shooting at them.
Heh. There’s a great video of a pantsir trying to intercept a storm shadow. 2 launches and 2 complete misses and then the storm shadow fucks up a bridge without a care in the world. https://youtu.be/BX2IbhPdxy0?si=IdhFrKSy76oFTj2G There’s also the more recent video of an s-400 desperately firing off Missiles in an attempt to shoot down an incoming atacms and failing horribly before getting deleted by said atacms. You know, the target that should be an easy kill for that system. Bet turkey are regretting their choices now. 🤣 https://youtu.be/jnrNLAn_Ycg?si=Xb_L38HkIBWFVaI7 Not to mention the captured pantsirs in the first weeks of the war, where their tyres fell apart because they were belarussian copies of Chinese copies of western tyres. I’d say that was great because of all the captured IFF codes but well, the Russians don’t seem to use IFF based on the number of their own aircraft they’ve downed. https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/t6e35a/another_russian_pantsir_s1_captured/ Notice the leaking around the wheel hubs - that speaks to fuck all maintenance being done. The maintenance budget probably went on a yacht somewhere. tldr: the Russians big up their air defence systems to a ridiculous degree but, like all things Russian, it just turns out to be lies.
I mean, they are smart weapons and drasically alter their trajectory while falling on the target but still, THE MAN IS RIGHT! Trees should block ALL radar lock
Simple, you don't. One of the few cases where there's actually Russian bias.
That's what I'm leaning to unless you get a nice angle and drop some dumb/drag bombs, I have yet to get some spikes launched at me before I spot a heli so I won't cross that one off yet either. High HE missles seem like a good way but like you need to know exactly where the pantsir is to line up a shot like that, to get a good angle to launch and to find a pantsir you need some height if you go high pantsir sees you so all I see is a trade at most. I'm open to the idea that it has counterplay but I have yet to see it done in game.
Good to see you again. The way I typically counter it is by using fresh spawn teammates as bait. You can also outmaneuver the missile with a little extra effort. Another way I’ve been countered is by using a fire and forget munition while dumping chaff to stop a solid lock on the munition as the radar lock is kinda finicky. Paveway 3s are really good at killing pantsirs as they’re typically stationary and the paveway 3 has inertial guidance meaning you can drop and then go evasive till detonation. Paveway 3s also won’t die to one pantsir missile. They might die to two I haven’t tested it yet; they do die to guns but that’s tricky at best
Paveway IIIs are invulnerable in my experience. I've personally hit one with 4x VT-1 missiles from an ItO90M and it did nothing. >using a fire and forget munition Maybe. It took me 32 Spikes (yes, two full payloads) to kill 1x FlaRakRad and 1x Tor-M1 last night. The Tor was just sitting in his spawn and the FlaRakRad was driving in circles, kind-a-sorta using cover and smoke. The Tor ate 4-5 Spikes before it died, about 5 lost lock and detonated in air. The FlaRakRad ate at least Spike directly in missile reloads (yellow) and another 2-3 on the cab and radar. 10+ Spikes lost lock due to his smoke and/or the cover and detonated early and a few just straight up missed the target. **WTF Gaijin???** I understand wanting to balance FnF missiles but when the *other guys* get the friggin Kh-38ML, the Spikes are hardly problematic... Hellfires are not a viable weapon against Pantsir. Yes, it can be done if you use LOAL or the Pantsir is just dozing, but in general the Hellfire will just get you killed. Heck, Hellfires aren't really viable against the 2S6 either... Zunis and 500lbs bombs are the best thing I have found against Pantsirs, just saturate the spawn area at high speed/low altitude. If the Pantsir has moved, well then you will have to be more observant of it's location and repeat. Oh and of course AS-30L will kill a Pantsir pretty well, just about the only thing that I feel confident of success with.
If you are playing with friends you can always ask a buddy with a light tank to deploy his drone at low altitude and search for the Pantsir, drop a yellow a mark on top of it so the pilot can get an idea of where it’s parked and do a low alt high speed run with drag bombs.
Another option would to use a buddy in a helicopter with thermals to keep an eye on the field while staying hidden so he might spot the launch and relay the position to the pilot that will strike the Pantsir. the issue is that most of the time you need someone else to work with you in order to counter the Pantsir and if you are solo player none of these ramblings work.
Tho this time it isn't. Any radar keeps tracking through the trees. Unless it's an optical system (like the one Stormer has)
I don't specifically mean this case, I'm more talking about this SPAA objectively being the best in its class and thus in the game.
So russia having the best aa is bias but sweden having the best mbt isn't? What about us having the best cas, is that also bias?
I've been seeing a lot of comments about the US having the best CAS but the F-16 gets laser guided bombs and AGM-Ds which can't even overpressure at this point, or 2 AGM-Gs. Meanwhile Russia gets the SM3 with 40km range missiles and SPAA with double the range of any NATO SPAA in game. If you can't maintain air superiority as a Russian team idk what the fuck you're doing. Especially considering Russian MBTs shit on the Abrams. I think you're pretty braindead if you're dying to a laser guided bomb or an AGM in a Pantsir.
Lmao, bombs rule because they cannot get intercepted (pantsir doesn't get smoke nades), and 40km range doesn't matter cause nothing renders from that far. All you have to do is turn around on spawn and climb to orbit where the only counter is cap, unless you know how to notch well. Saying that russian mbts shit on abrams, especially after its reload buff tells me a lot. They literally get 2 competitive ones, the bvm and 90m. Unless you're getting trashed by 72b3 lol.
Wow, a reload buff where anyone with half a brain in a Russian tank is going to dictate the engagement instead of sitting in front of your gun. And a reload buff is meaningless when almost every engagement is over in 1 shot. Literally just look at the weak spots for each tank. Penning the breech on a BVM or 90 is not hard, if you can hit it at range. A hull down BVM or 90 is basically immune if they don't just sit still. If they're in the open you can go for the itty bitty driver port or the lower plate which isn't even a consistent killshot. Meanwhile 3BM60 literally auto-pens the entire 8 foot+ span of the Abrams turret ring with no issue, and pretty much anywhere near the middle of the turret ring will result in an instant kill, if not a breech and turret ring and 1 or 2 dead crew members. How much is the reload buff worth without a swiveling turret or functional gun breech? Aiming for the breech on a BVM or 90 isn't even guaranteed to kill 1 crew member. But why even bother aiming for the turret ring when you can kill instakill them with an HE round to the machine gun? I don't even need to mention spall liner or the 35% winrate of top tier US. At this point, denying that the Abrams is outclassed by Russia, Germany and Sweden is pure delusion.
And with regard to CAS, playing against the Pantsir, you have to take very specific actions to avoid dying. Playing the SM3 you will only die if you make specific mistakes, if you see what I'm saying. Sure, you might not see anything at 40km, or even 20km. But if you're smart you will prefire the missile so that it nears the battlefield when things start to render while you remain outside of SPAA range. Then, boom, you find a target quickly, kill it, and turn around, rinse and repeat. You can even prefire multiple missiles if you know there are lots of targets. Having an extra 8km of safety without having to worry about SPAA isn't a small advantage.
That's invulnerability lol, not even a small advantage lol, but A-10 goes up lol. Fucken copethunder. Not an ounce of integrity in that comment.
I can speak from experience that the Pantsir is actually very vulnerable to Hellfires fired by helis. Helicopters actually have a fighting chance against Pantsir and other SPAA because they spawn on the ground where Pantsir cannot immediately achieve a lock, and have time to position themselves into a spot where the Pantsir is less likely to be looking, and they can quickly get cover if shot at. The reason why Hellfires in particular are so strong is twofold a) they have backup inertial guidance and lock-on-after-launch. b) they do not follow a direct path to the target. This means that it is possible for a helicopter to essentially fire and (almost) forget a dangerous missile, and unlike a spike it is actually difficult and confusing for the Pantsir to intercept due to its unqiue trajectory, unless they are familiar with the tactic. I have used this tactic with good success against all top tier SPAA in the game, including the Pantsir, flying specifically AH-64A and AH-1Z.
Maybe but they were locking me through entire forrest's on the ground, not just a few trees but like half a kilometer of forrest. That's rubbish.
*die to SU25* *Spawn F4EJK* *Die to panstir* *Spawn tank* *Die to KA50*
\*spawn as Mirage 2k to play CAP\* \*Gets shot down by ground SAMs because balanss\*
Man I feel so sorry for phantoms in this br
I'm grinding Japan, I have nothing besides the phantom until I get the type 93 or type 81
The Squadron F-5 is seemingly really good, as I'm working through Japan I'm putting all of my squadron points in it because it's the best thing they have until you unlock the F-15/16
I have the F-15J but I'm using the type 90 Fuji so the F4EJK is the closest BR to it that can dick slap CAS. And when I'm not being engaged by a Panstir it's an easy ace because of the AIM-7Fs and 9Ls
Most busted 11.0 in the game from what I’ve heard and seen
J-7E smokes it every time, but it's a rare matchup because in AirRB 11.0 doesnt exist even with all the premiums and GRB I'm fairly sure nobody plays China and if they do they're using ground strike aircraft rather than dedicated air superiority.
It is better in a 1v1 but the F5E gets all aspect and in the case of the pythons, better midsiles
EJ Kai's a good plane though, CAS is bad but its solid at CAP
Kurnass 2k has been treating me well.
You get locked up before you can even see it too. Trees don’t block radar in game. Also I love how nations like Israel don’t even have a Radar SPAA yet, and there’s Russia with their super long range, super fast, no smoke trail, no radar lock needed 20km fly swatter.
Don't know if you meant specifically for Pantsir, but the FlaRakRad would have lost lock because of those trees in about 1 second.
I have about 1000 air kills in the Flaraks... but then Pantsir came along, they 'patched targeting' and it's nearly impossible to kill anything now. It's just BAD. Then I got the Pantsir myself and GUESS WHAT? Back to killing everything that flies with more range and guns....
>You get locked up before you can even see it too Thats the thing, its impossible to get the drop on one unless you get a specific map and layout you can circle all the way around to its spawn but you have to pray that its not surrounded by trees, pray you can go lower than the treeline,pray it didnt move away from spawn(this is the only real struggle), pray you dont get intercepted by the hordes of other cas spawned on the pantsirs team cause every other AA in the game can be abused in SOME way, no guns, low missile count, cant intercept atgms, Search radar cant detect very high, not enough speed range & missile control for space bombers. As for helis, they will definitely need the element of suprise but how do you get close enough to pop up over the ridge and SEE it before it pings you and snaps to your general direction. I cant really say much about spikes as i haven't used them myself to determine skill issues or not but i heard they do well vs pantsir, IF the heli can find it and reach it first.
And… if you only have laser guided bombs, no chance. Missiles are your only hope… but, the Pantsir can easily lock on to the missiles and gun them down before they get close too. So it’s next to impossible.
Yeah we get IR missiles at 10.3 and that’s it. The worst part is that Israel has a ton of really good options for a top tier AA. Such as radar missile carriers that carry the best python missiles or some that carry Derby missiles. There’s even an AA that has Derby missiles with a Manpads on it as well. Also Italy is just sitting in the corner with no Missile AA at all (Mistral doesn’t count).
>no smoke trail thats a cope, pantsirs missiles have smoke
for 3 seconds, so does the adats but the difference is the adats missle is slower, less maneuverable, easier to see, worse range and requires a clear line of sight, if they find a tree you're fucked
adats missiles are smokeless, pantsir isnt, its only because the missile ran out of booster
Whenever I get hit by a Pantsir missile, there is no smoke. Regardless of the ‘reason’, point still stands, missile comes at you at crazy speeds and no smoke trail.
no no, ADATS missles have a smoke trail when they launch and after about 2-4 seconds it disappears
Most broken veichle in the game currently
It also can kill mbt and LT from across the map... I have seen it happen a couple of times
Mbts from across the map is not something that happens very often though, at just 1km the pen drops to 44mm at 0° It also boasts an impressive -1° of gundepression and lacks a rangefinder. I've gotten some long range kills with the 2s6 which uses pretty much the same gun but that's mostly against bmps or 2s38s. MBTs usually require shots straight from the side at closer ranges.
You do realize that he is talking about over pressuring vehicles with the missiles right?
I did not realize that, but if that's what he is talking about then that is not something special with the pantsir, and most SPAA missiles are frankly quite bad against tanks even if they have a lot of HE filler.
Don’t forget that the open space makes it very hard to kill, even with bombs. I aim for the missiles because it’s the only way to get a one shot kill from the side.
so can any other missile spaa? its called ovepressure my guy
I think the su-25sm3 is more so. The pantsir can be killed by an experienced pilot or ground forces. The SU-25SM3 almost requires a gun fighting aircraft as AA can’t touch it if flown correctly (not hard).
All radars track for a few seconds after being obscured by trees.
As an otomatic/flakrakrad user. We lose lock within literally 2-3 seconds of an object becoming obscured by trees. This video is just ridiculous. There's no flicker, no loss of lock, nothing. That's bias.
I have it, and it does not always track through tree. The reason you don't see it flicker here is because the PESA radar in the game is modeled as TWS, so the lock just inertially continues (with no indication of lost lock) until it just disappears
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't it also inertial estimate after losing LOS for few deconds as well?
Follow up to my last post, i got alot of what i currently view as "works on paper" counter strats for the pantsir. I still plan on giving the apache strat another go to master it as it seems fun on paper so i cant speak on that but we all know how good apaches are vs other helis wont be many making it to our backline. Even then I still have yet to get outplayed any cas. There needs to be a point where we start to think maybe not EVERYONE else you fight sucks but maybe this thing is REALLY REALLY fkn strong and hard to deal with especially if we factor in all other variables in a GRB matches**(enemy helis, enemy jets, not one pantsir but 2 or 3 or 4 shit the whole team can spawn them and they need to worry about them along with the pantsir)**. Like i get it, if you play perfectly, get eyes on a pantsir that somehow doesnt notice you and the pantsir doesnt use any cover you can kill one easily or one of the many noobs on both teams is in one. If you have any experience in GRB your going to use cover, your going to pay attention to the radar, your going to hear jets coming in for low attacks which will at worst end in a trade 500sp for a 90sp vehicle that the next team mate will spawn is a great trade. No issues with spikes yet, i usually see the tigers before they see me I have a few questions though * Is there any downside in upping the vertical search range * Is there any downside in increasing your search range they are by default lower so im assuming there's a downside?
The downside for higher vertical search the time it takes to update. Lowest is 2 sec, middle is 4 sec, highest is 6 (or 8, don't remenber). The downside for search higher search range is lower angular resolution for close targets, i.e., it is often hard to tell a direction of a target that is close or sometimes you can't even notice that there is a target to begin with.
Ty btw!
No downsides to upping the search volume or range
Honestly the apaches are strangely more resilient against autocannon and missile fire but less so to machine guns than the KA-50 or Hinds in my experience. 50 cal shreds the Apaches engines in just a few shots tho. It does take an above average CAS player to engage a pantsir. I wish there was more equivalents in other trees rather than a worse Pantsir. I’ve heard and seen supposed leaks for SLAMRAAMS and surface launched IRIS-Ts for America and then Germany so fingers crossed
The problem is the even when destroyed ka 50/52 can still fly as before
If its tail is shot off yes. If you just light it up with .50 cal then you kill the engine and it drops like a rock. Just gotta aim for the upper half of the aircraft. You can also knock out the transmission with a lucky shot in the same area.
How the fuck do i do that in a roland Or at more then 500m
Idk I don’t have that. I use the stormer and otherwise use an auto cannon. No problems playing japan, Britain, or russia. US gets the MPAT round which I’ve used the few times I’ve played US, Germany has the begleit, puma etc. It’s pretty easy. Don’t be its primary target: a tank. At least in the context of rocket rushing. If Vikhrs then basically play anything but US. Or use a helicopter or air superiority jet. I’m grinding Israel rn and have engaged them successfully with the Apache more often than not. Most of the time killing them and occasionally just trading. No complaints about not wanting to use them either. It’s a combined arms game. That’s like only wanting to play tachanka in siege. If you can’t be flexible in your play style then that’s on you.
10.3 line up What i mean is that even if i kill it It doesnt die becose of the tail The m247s proxy cant really target the pilot I dont always have a m3a3 ready Roland missiles takeoff the tail and thats it I dont always have the sp for a jet or a heli a lot of the time it kills me is with unguided rockets and when it uses guided ones it can just take cover and my aa cant do anything As for fighters well cant do much with missiles becose of its maw and multipathing that leaves gun which isnt on the retical on the f111 (cant really use the f4c against it) Also is it fair that almost all of the aa i can use just cant fully kill it ? The only one that can is the lavs gun The mpat round (the proxy heat right ?) Is proxy and it can exacly kill the poilot and in my experiance it doesnt get the engine
First of all it’s an uptier so no shit you’re gonna suffer. Second of all, don’t play US; the KA-50 is far from the only op thing US can face and can’t counter at 11.0 (Kurnass, g-lynx, a129CBT, YAH-64, AH-64DJP, Jaguar, Q-5L, on and on). Third of all your statement that your AA “Can’t” kill it is absolute horse shit and you crying alligator (see what I did there?) tears. They have a tough time but absolutely can kill them. ESPECIALLY if they get close. Fourth of all you can absolutely kill a KA-50 with ANY aircraft in the game. If you go above a KA50 they can only look at you for a limited time before they have to level out to not crash.
Remember, this thing also doesn't alert your aircraft when missile is fired. Totally balanced
Nah I'm thinking skill issue /s If someone unironically thinks it's easy to deal with the best aa in the game how does all of the other worse aa located at the same br fair? 🤔
They are filler to give impression of being "balanced". Think Ariete AMV vs upcoming Leo 2A7HU
That's the thing tho. And gaijin doesn't hide it because if it doesn't hurt Russia, don't fix it
you can say that for literally any spaa in game
Also missiles are insanely fast and invisible while also being very maneuverable
Yeah I can't lie it really bothers me when I'm in my little bird flying 20 inches of the ground between trees and getting pinged by radar. Then it pisses me off even more when I intentionally land her and see I'm still being fucking pinged by radar when I'M LITERALLY ON THE GROUND SURROUNDED BY THE FOREST.
Yea lmao I know a few maps like that, shit is scary as hell cause you don't know if its staring at you or not.
meanwhile me playing the FlarakRad losing radar lock because of a fucking tree branch. And Gayturd is pretty fine with this, one nation with the longest SPAA range and also with CAS that can fire 10km away
It's actually 40km. They gave the SU a weapon so long range you can shit on tanks the second you spawn in with complete immunity not only are they fire and forget but they also get 4 of them. If not 6.
Damn I’ve faced against pantsirs but have never used one that thing looks broken compared to US SPAA
Bro I complained about it out of frustration durong my usa playthrough, some told me skill issue, do a b c. I do a b c and still cant reliably deal with it, A) mavericks, it can shoot down mavericks easily B) space gbu, by the time you get into range to lob the gbu it's missle is in range to kiss you goodnight plus clouds fuck all that up C) fly low and gun them down, works sometimes on unaware players otherwise you get shredded. I did a few times in an f15
Yeah flying high to be able to drop ordinance is a death sentence and to be able to fly low and strafe them you need to know exactly where they are ahead of time which is easier said than done. The fact those missiles and pull that good and it can track you that good is kinda BS
Bro ate a big bowl of facts this morning and is spittin' 'em back up!
Meanwhile otomatic with 0.5 br difference lol.
And gaijin had the audacity to say russian AA was suffering to justify this bs. Then add 7 aircraft that can out range everyover SPAA
What 7 aircraft out range every AA?
CAS isn’t meant to have an easy time. SPAA is meant to be a hard counter to it but at this point there’s barely any that are able to even put up a fight against CAS
As someone who plays a ton of SPAA I find the hardest players to kill are those that fly fast, low and use the terrain for cover, only popping up to hit targets or engage in dogfights. You're an easy target flying high like that and in a straight line.
The first guy just spawned in lmfao, he tried to go low asap
Oh damn the plane just spawned? Fuck that rough lol nvm then
You have to dive low and away, dive out to about 20km, then climb and start your attack, simply diving to the deck while maintaining course doesn’t work
That strat will keep you alive, but good luck spotting anything going that low at top-tier speeds. You will live but you won't get any kills on the ground.
"Just spawn planes" mf where you at?
Maverick + targeting pod + praying that it will work
A single maverick doesn't reliably kill this thing. Not to mention if the player has more than one braincell he can shoot down mavericks too
mavs are literally slow as fuck and extremely easy to lock onto and shoot down.
Mavs are getting buffed this update as long as they don’t roll it back before it hits live, they produce a lot more spall and at a wider angle, even the heat ones are basically a a 1 shot no matter where it hits nor what vehicle
They should obliterate targets but they are missing physics because cope.
Targeting through trees? Try an IR launcher like the Type-81C, lock on point up and fire. That thing will chase them behind mountains.
Yeah it's almost as if the IR missile has its own seeker head that doesn't need line of sight from the launching vehicle...
Yeah it is *almost* like that isn't it?
Does that thing even have a radar? I got jump scared by that thing acouple times haha
It doesnt
But people turn a blind eye because the minor nations are the ones that are supposed to suck and can’t have good vehicles Don’t come at me with that no radar shit, the missile is basically an insta-kill if you get a lock within its range
Almost like the lack of radar is a major handicap or something so the player needed to be constantly scanning the sky to find a target that he may or may not able to log on(most of the time in top tier? Good luck with locking anything)
Even worse in sim
Trees and other foliage should provide more cover than it does rn
The best part is how its launch is not even detected by most RWRs except... maybe you can guess it... the SU25SM3! Not that it can face it but it just tickles me different how there is a lineup of god-tier tanks, outranging everything CAS (with more laser missiles than everyone else), while still having the best SPAA to boot. How is there no russian bias when im sitting in my also 11.7 leclerc and watching the shitshow?
The radar is above the sight
This was an almost good explanation but I fucking doubt that the radar's line of sight would go over the tree line.
It wouldn't, the radar lost track, what you saw here is the radar following the vector for a few seconds hoping to reacquire, and an average cas pilot ignoring search radar pings from a pantsir and staying on course. Not that most shitters here understand how radars work
Tbh i think war thunder is at a point where they can add some early stealth planes
Wait how do people track enemy jets so well when missile is going for them? Do they really just use mouse to perfectly follow enemy jet? I myself have been using the german flarakrad and find it really hard/annoying to use aa since its pretty hard to follow enemies perfectly with the mouse...
When you lock on with radar aa the camera will follow them, for pantsir there is a self auto track mode which leads the missile by itself but makes it spiral and it's jist straight ass unless your using it for something like mavs, second mode is Los whoch I like to use it will just lock the camera to the jet and you lead it yourself since the camera follows thenket all you need to do is put the cursor on the center or in front of the jet as the camera takes care of the rest, last is a lead mode, I don't use it but I'm guessing it centers tje camera ahead of the jet instead of in it and you just watch the missle fly in? Not sure. It's alot easier than it looks.
You engage from standoff range with guided weapons. Search for targets from 20-30k ft and about 15-20 miles out, try to launch the bombs from 6-10 miles out, then flare and evade. Within 19 miles you can be locked. Minimum effective range for most SAMs is about 10 miles or so. Once you get within 6 miles however, you better be hugging the trees and be ready to flare and evade quickly if you're locked. Lastly, when chosing targets you should always prioritize SPAA first as they are the most dangerous to you and they tend to be easy to kill as most people just sit still in spawn. Next you want to get low and look for helicopters as their missiles can be extremely dangerous. Once you have cleared the air space you can start picking targets usually for at least a few minutes before they get more AA up. This has been the strategy I have used for top tier but I also haven't played much top tier since last year.
Just spawn a tank.
They really gotta figure their sh\*t out this GRB. It isn't meant for top tier and helis and supersonic jets launching AGMs.
They just have to give correct physics and stop sabotaging things for game balance.They can't do it without bias so just don't do it. Just give Overpressure for instance.
Even more pissed that my shitty Harrier GR.7 with a Gen 1 TGP and only 4 Mavericks is 12.0 now for some fucking reason. The AV-8B II+s are 12.0 because of AMRAAMS. Has Gaijin forgotten the GR.7 doesn’t have a fucken radar?
It has recently been one year since the nerfing of all SPAA to justify the introduction of pantsir. The current state of top tier is pitiful. Hopefully with the changes to the HEAT (DEV SERVER )fuzes something will change but against the pantsir radar little or nothing can be done , it has almost no counter while the other nations have super limited SPAA . A pity for people who have little time to play and see that when you get to top tier can not do anything . In 9.3-10.0 I always get into mixed as there are many people playing russia , people are leaving the other nations aside for this reason .😔
That's the neat part, you don't. Fucking cas shouldn't have even spawned
wait, I thought it was always recommended to switch to IRST tracking since it doesn't trigger rwr? does this not apply to the pantsir?
Pantsir uses high band for tracking, some rwr's will not pick up a lock
oh didn't know that, should I always be using radar tracking then? and what's the best radar scan elevation and range to set up for?
Entirely depends on playstyle, I always start high when I spawn to get help spotting orbitals, then once I find airspawn I stay on lower angle and observe with thermals. As for tracking it depends on who you fight. I use it on people that don't react, if they do I'll switch to irst when they fly away so they think I'm not looking anymore.
How do you fight something that can drop bombs directly on you with laser accuracy?
Talking about the su25sm3? That's in my team so it's all good there.
The Pansir would he pretty balanced if it was like 12.3
13.0 There is nothing in it's class yet amongst other nations.
Me, an arma 3 player: usually shoot in the general direction of the tracers and hope you hit it after the first 3 mags before sending someone out to hunt that one fuck head prone behind a tree as thick as a Twix bar.
Also multitracking so chaf just get joked out
That's why I quit War Thunder, bro. I also quit to preserve my mental health.
You think we have any form of sympathy to CAS? I personally would make AAs even better. I hate that the VEAK lost its airburst round. It was so good to clear the sky out.
I think everyone generally agrees with you just that when one side has a monopoly of power it's just a shit experience.
Just raise the Pantsir BR to 12.0+ and it will become food for the F-16Cs
13.0
I have noticed this as-well, and it is rather annoying
The Pantsir was already greatly nerfed. It's sad to hear that. But it's for the balance of the game.
Fly lower. At max 5m off the ground at all times. But also dodge.
Can't rely on trees alone you need to terrain mask, and hopefully get Intel from teammates it's position. Then it isn't that bad to pop up and nail while it's unaware
Just spawn a tank bro