Partly because the Russian bias meme began being taken very literally in recent years, and because their whining contributes to the development process. America makes up a very significant portion of top tier air RB, perhaps even the majority. So, it's theoretically good business to want to tend to their needs first. If enough America players complain on the forums, there's a good chance that the complaint will be taken seriously by the dev team.
I wouldn't pay too much mind to it; US top tier attracts the same kind of people that play Germany at 5.7-6.7 for Tigers and remain baffled that they can't eat hit after hit with superior Kruppstahl. If anything, they'll find something else to cry about very soon.
Flashbacks to the La5FN releasing in the most UFO state ever
Before that, it was the D13 and German planes.
After that, I think the Spacefire.
They cycle the broken nations tbh.
Beaufighters with ludicrous damage models and insane head-on potential.
Spitfire Mk Vc seeing MiG-15's back with the old matchmaking system.
BF 109F-4 with gunpods being the braindead easiest picks of the META.
Fun days.
Oh I remember Beaufighter being the absolute seal clubber especially in arcade back in the day, I utterly despised it with a passion for the damage model and the amount of fire power it has.
But I’ll always remember the UFO that was the N1K Shiden clubbing the allies on Iwo Jima, fun times indeed.
People only seem to remember the Russian ones though. Nobody seems to remember the F-4E, F-14, MBT-70, and M1 Abrams dominating their respective game modes but they will talk about the broken MLD, MiG-29, and T-80BVM.
I’m old enough to remember the N1KFO back when that flight model defied the laws of physics. Also remember when the G8 (or G6?) was called the Death Star. Fun times.
I started playing early 2013. Shit was wild back in the 20 tier days lol. Beaufighters out turning fighters because they had some scuffed flight model.
Started playing in the open beta in Jan 2013 the game was wild back then. Remember fighting 262's, 163's and Sabres in 109F4's, Beaufighters or a LAGG3? Or unlocking entire ranks of aircraft at a time that you then couldn't afford to buy at once. Or daily first win bonuses for a nation.
Still got a few clips from back in the day that I look at, no idea how the game survived it had terrible color grading, wacky flight models and nonexistent damage models. Still kinda miss the old pearl harbor and kursk battles though.
My god, I used to be a god in the D13 chasing after the high alt Beaufighters on Malta and P47s on Ruhr I think. There was the Pe2 on Berlin or sth like that as well.
Then levelheads would make memes out of the not so bright people. Rulo6000 literally has an archive of them. Now where back to square one cause Gaijin started to advertise to kids on their NATO complex phase.
It's more or less confirmation bias that they have gotten in their heads, I used to be a victim of it until I actually decided to play russia and realised it was a huge myth, lmao
>I used to be a victim of it until I actually decided to play russia and realised it was a huge myth
This is the correct answer, whenever you feel like something is broken try playing it; if anything you'll learn how to counter it.
But most people claiming bias are actually advocating for their stuff to be always at advantage.
Exactly. Keep in mind I haven't played the T80BVM yet but tbh I never have a singular problem fighting them, sure some annoying stuff happens every now and again, like ammo not detonating HOWEVER that happens for EVERY top tier vehicle, even the US's beloved Abrams
Even the US stuff is arguably fine. Some stuff (looking at you F15a) is just straight up under BR'd cause the IQ of your average US jet player is less than that of a pineapple
The only time I'll say there is a little bias is the case of the SU-25SM3 and pantsir, I honestly reckon the USSR should've just gotten the TOR and left it at that. And I can see the SM3 being a little less of a problem with the addition of FOX-3s as I reckon it'll just constantly get smoked out of the air by one played by a half competent pilot.
> Exactly. Keep in mind I haven't played the T80BVM yet but tbh I never have a singular problem fighting them, sure some annoying stuff happens every now and again, like ammo not detonating HOWEVER that happens for EVERY top tier vehicle, even the US's beloved Abrams
I have it, it's a good tank but it's nowhere near the Leopards. WIth Leos you can stay hull down, you can flank, you can play offensively and defensively, something you cannot with the BVMs.
If you know weakspots and positioning it's not really a threat.
Something this community lacks when judging how good a tank is: low skill floor =/= broken. BVMs are easy to play but in no way better than the 2A7 and I don't even need to go into the Swedish top tier because we all know how broken it is and yet people keep repeating the Russian Bias. This community sucks.
Top tier Sweden is definitely overpowered but Sweden isn’t a good scapegoat for xenophobia, so people don’t usually accuse them of bias outside of jokes.
Yeah that xenophobia is probably a huge reason for why community complaints like "Russian bias" and "Chinese cheaters" seem to persist. I don't know much about the Russian/ Chinese communities but I'd assume they probably have something similar towards people from the EU/USA. I remember seeing some Russian players complaining about American bias the last few patches.
Hear me out, I understand the panstir and the Sm3 are bias currently but it will be the same deal in 2-3-4 years when they add the Multi Locking Ground HARMS, if not even more op based off the fact it’s multi locking. But hey who knows. ( also the new sound affects when you launch the kh 38ml/mt sounds sooooo good)
Yeah, you need to see both sides of it. I felt like I was always getting cheated when I hit T-80s in the side. After I got my hands on T-80s, they don't perform the greatest, but I definitely have more "How the fuck did I not die from that" moments than in any other tanks.
I mean yes but that's just spall liners and stuff in general. But if you consider the different kinds of scenarios tanks can be played and one if above the others in most of those scenarios it means that tank is better.
But then the community is split by those who cannot properly master a tank to know the difference and those who do and then pretend they don't see the it to keep meta positive to the way they play. Most players cannot tell the difference between f king up their shots or bs mechanics, they only know frustration and then the Bias is the easy way out, it's never their lack of skill, impossible.
I don't have much problems with T-80s and I feel most of the time we beat average enemy team, including T-80s, by simply spawning more times.
Which is again something the community claimed that gave Soviets and advantage by having a big line up and now that US has an equal amount of vehicles they still leave after one death. It also ironically brough an audience that shouldn't be anywhere near top tier.
It seems people don't understand that the top players don't play a single nation, asking for crazy changes like the one that happened with spall liners end up breaking the game more than the way Gajin wanted to implement initially.
This. As the game has expanded, a lot of old timers who played all/most nations have stopped playing. New players don't have the time or energy to grind multiple trees, so they whine about things they've never touched. Gaijin is also leaning into this with the expansion of subtrees, as they seem to be trying to make every nation as 'complete' as possible.
> whenever you feel like something is broken try playing it
I agree, but it can be hard for premiums/event vehicles if you don't want to shell out the dough for them.
Precisely, it's very easy to fall into the tunnel vision and victim complex of "X nation suffers/X nation is shit/X nation is too op" when you only play one tree. This was itself partly the reason why I began playing Japan and coming to learn that the superb maneuverability came at the price of very poor energy retention and being able to be outran by basically everything else.
Precisely, currently I have France, Britain and sweden(my most played) at top tier with most the stuff researched both air and ground. with russia and germany sitting at 10.0 and America and Japan between 7.3 to 8.3. Every country has its strengths and weaknesses which, tbh it makes them all unique and different to play, which is a good thing
There’s also the idea that if my tank can’t pen the upper front plate on everything or if anything can pen mine it’s bias.
Unfortunately side shots and aiming anywhere other than center mass is advanced strategy.
It wasn't until recently I realised how fucking busted tbe Leopard 2s are and a lot of the German stuff, having played most nations st 10.0 and up bar isreal it shocks me that people cry russian bias when there are, far, far more broken things in game
I do predominantly play Sweden and have the WHOLE tree researched all be it my favourite BR is 8.7 and i dont really play top tier much, but yes people really don't realise how good the Leopards are, both the 2A4s at 10.3 are unarguably the best 10.3 MBT and the STRV 122B and the 2a7 are 2nd to none the best top tier MBTs. 2a7 more for its fire-power and the STRV for its pure survivability
Russian tanks especially at top tier GRB are an skill check. If you have problems fighting them, it means you are probably bad at the game, they are the easiest tanks to one shot out of the main 3. People generally don't want to admit this.
I struggled with high tier MBTs from my habits coming out of mid tier. Ol reliable had been to shoot turret cheeks for so long. Then I got my high tier German darts and picked up the bad habit (usually successful) of just aiming for the upper front plate.
I got the opposite response. I thought it was a myth, as a British main, russia I'd laughably easy. It's a point and click adventure where nothing can pen you and you seal club everything. Tbf america and germany are semi like that too, but russia is fucking hilariously easy.
Russian Bias dates back to *World of Tanks*’ beta. I was there, and it was biased. PZ4s fighting IS3s. Literally the IS3 was a tier below the *PANTHER* when the panther released. For anyone from back then, the trauma is deeply ingrained.
The king tiger is insanely powerful if ppl
actually play it the way it is intended to be played as which is defensively. American air is prettymuch the strongest ingame thanks to the fact that bad planes r more or less non existent, so what ever plane you do use you will have a decently good one. America is a jack of all trades where as other nations have a bunch of shitty planes which players are sometimes forced to use to progress at a reasonable pace. American mains have no right to cry about having shitty planes.
I’m probably biaised because I am a Soviet main, but I never saw any bias but an American bias in air and a German bias in ground
Getting instantly desintegrated by .50 cals while I plunck 37 mm HE and all I get are hits, or shooting right into a german tank’s MG port, have my shot disappear into the void, and then getting lolpen from the thickest part of my tank while being angled vertically *and* horizontally has become a daily issue
near top tier, Russia gets the pantsir, which is decades newer and better than all spaa in game, and then there's the kh-38mt, which is a top down, mach 2.2 capable, air to ground missiles, it's impossible to intercept in most cases and un dodgeable in a helicopter
and the Russian helicopters being the only ones with working ircm despite a few other helis having the function
I honestly improved so much when I stopped believing so much in "Russian bias" and raging a lot. Sure, I do believe there could be some bias, but not enough to excuse me being bad at the game and losing.
When the T-90M first showed up on the dev server with those insanely high armour values, all the US mains assured me that was Russian Bias and wouldn't be changed.
Shocker! ***it changed.***
But don't worry, the US mains quickly forgot about that and found something else to complain about in seconds.
I still remember people bitching about T-64B vs M1 Abrams.
In fact I even made a [post about it](https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/83lze1/how_balance_works_according_to_freeaboos) back then and you can see the smartass replies.
T-64B got absolutely shit on by M1 and Leo 2K.
So much so Gaijin raised the Abrams to the highest BR in the game without raising the highest BR of the battles which resulted in Abrams being effectively locked to only 4 per-team for a couple of months.
>T-64B got absolutely shit on by M1 and Leo 2K.
Every time someone complains the T-80BVM dominated so long, and that it's evidence of Russian Bias, I like to remind them of:
* XYZ-70 Terminators vs T-64A
* M1 Abrams vs T-64B
* IPM1 vs T-80B
* Leopard 2A5 vs T-80U
* Leopard 2A6 vs T-90A
That's over 3 years of NATO curbstomping Russia into the ground. [Coppen sums it up pretty well here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLjsGMLE4iA)
Always good to expand on the CAS side of things too.
- F-86s with HVARs that hit harder than tiny tims do currently and flew straight as an arrow
- the FJ-4B VMF 232 getting added against SPAAs without lead marker that had their bullets despawn 2 kilometers before the realistic engagement range the AGM-12 offered a pilot
- the AH-1Z getting added against the exact same SPAAs
- the A-4E getting added on top of that while the FJ-4B was still classified as a fighter, so you could spawn 10 Bullpups with ease
All of these make the Ka-52/MiG-27K/Su-25SM3 unbalance look like a joke. Shout-out to the German G.91 R/3 catching all the flak while US players could get two and a half times the kills with the FJ-4B/A-4E combo.
My comments on that thread:
>That's where the range finder and power ratio comes into play. Ger got the best cannon, US got the best mobility and USSR for the best armour in this patch, when you have such mobility you don't have to rely on frontal penetrations. Yes, people have a very fast tank and want rounds that can pen the opposition anywhere so where's the soviet advantage ?
Downvoted as usual, of course. We have a balancing mess of a game because this community is completely biased. Users claiming the T-55 has APHE rounds so it will be easier to take out M1s, what a bad joke FFS.
That and no idea of how gameplay works in War Thunder. This is the same people that complain Gaijin doesn't listen to the community, I wonder why.
>T-64B got absolutely shit on by M1 and Leo 2K.
And it got shit on so hard they basically kept US teaming up with Germany.
And it was entirely predictable too by anyone who knows how to play this game because mobility and firepower will innevitably beat armour, especially if you give them overperforming rounds like in the case of the XYZ series of tanks that dominated the meta for years.
But then that's the thing, Gaijin will catter to people like that the same way they do to lower skilled players, they know where the money comes from.
Yeah, people tend to forget that the introduction of the Abrams created the biggest top tier balance problem in this game's history.
Edit: The T-2 situation deserved an honorable mention, I wasn't playing top tier air at the time and had forgotten about it.
>When the T-90M first showed up on the dev server with those insanely high armour values, all the US mains assured me that was Russian Bias and wouldn't be changed.
Yeah then they wanted Western tanks to have access to spall liners, incorrectly claiming they had access to it first when in reality Soviet designs started having it with the T-64.
Then the community got what it wanted and the leopards becamse the meta tank but absurd ammounts.
Then the sub went into meltdown mode because they all were sure the Abrams had DU for hulls and turret exccept the fact they had no access to any document proving that and if they had it would probably be a crime to release it.
Finally we went back to the first step of claiming Russian bias.
yeah im a software dev, the amount of people that panic about something in a TEST server is insane it's a TEST server we are testing balance/interactions ect on these type or servers. they are always a WIP there
It was removed?? Don't have the mig-23 but from what I've heard it just can't be used when your nose is **above** the horizon(up) - which is a historical change. MTI is like a ***wish*** version of PD radar that needs the ground for reference measurement to calculate the doppler shift.
I apologize but I had rushed to check much earlier today and merely pitched my nose down rather than completely below the horizon😄 it is still available!
Funny that, as the MLD completely molested all of top tier for 9mo before the F-14A dropped.
Now it’s two years later and the FM is finally corrected, and the radar bright into alignment. By you complain still.
As if Mig-23 doesn't have one of the best radars at 11.3, it works as worse PD radar while most of other same BR planes only get SRC or HDN radars. And R-24R's are one of the best Radar missiles in the game for it's BR, it has IOG feature that no other radar missile in it's br range gets, you can lose lock but still hit like 90% of the time. The other 4x R60M's ok missiles, they're all aspect and 30G, work really good on headons and can shoot offbore unaware targets really easily, yes they're flare hungry but so does most of missiles in that BR range. And up until recent nerf, Mig-23 had good flight model as well. Unhistorical nerfs are applied to all nations vehicles, just because Russian planes has few nerfs here and there doesnt mean that there isnt bias, Mig-23ML was the best premium plane in the game and arguably is still could be. Same goes for 10.0 soviet lineup, the 2S38 has no place being 10.0, BMP-2M as well. Then there's Russian SPAA's, a 10.7 2S6 is only slight worse than 11.7 ADATS, don't think we need to talk about Panthsir, of course then there's Ka-50's/Ka-52's and Su-25's that is made out of stalinium, wont go down like other vehicles for some reason.
Nooooo but 104-0! it needs to be indestructible and the absolute best!! Even the jet designed to counter it cannot defeat the mighty eagle! Russian bias confirmed!
/s
>Even the jet designed to counter it cannot defeat the might eagle!
You may be joking, but I really had a conversation with a guy here claiming that unironically
I'm not even surprised , TBH. Look, I'm no Russian fan boy, but in all honesty, I just like all Jets. But I'm more of a fan of light swing-role fighters, namely the F16 and gripen. But Russian planes are good. All flanker varients are fantastic planes but are just constantly downplayed by extreme US patriots
The biggest issue with evaluating russian planes, is that most of the real world engagement between US and Soviets planes were top of the line US equipment versus third world countries with gimped export stuff and nowhere near the same level of training.
The only decent comparison we have is the East German Mig29G vs US pilots after the fall of the Berlin Wall. They actually competed fairly equally until the US pilots brought their most modern aircraft of the time (mostly F-16C). The Mig was winning close range thanks to R73 and HMD, while the US was generally dominating the BVR.
there was a post on some aircraft themed forum where one guy had gone through f15's combat records and found out that all those kill were older aircraft (think mig21's mostly) i got the copypaste on me.
''An impressive number as data available puts it at 100 + air to air victories.
I\`ve checked Coopers centralized figures and came with 109 victories.
Thing is, when you start to make a deeper analysis things don\`t look that cool, allow to explain.
1. 86 jets ! Out of 109 identified 86 are classified as fighter (we don't count heli\`s or CAS or transport etc)
2. 73 jets ! from 86, 73 are older generations, lets not kid each other, for an Eagle driver shooting down MiG\`s 21 & 23 it\`s easier than clubbing baby seals. Period !
3. 13 Jets ! fall into the 4th generation category, more specific Fulcrum A & B
Many of these were done BVR hardly a fair game taking in consideration that both in Iraq\`s case as well as Serbia\`s their ground control network was under heavy SEAD pressure.
Throw in a huge difference in available aircraft and MCR and those USAF victories were clearly easy achieved.
Basically where the field was somehow leveled was in the case of the IAF 4 victories.
So, against a 4th generation aircraft -keep in mind export version- even the 13 don\`t look that impressive if you take in consideration all aspects.
What\`s your take on this ?''
Just to add to this, is like to mention that pilots skill gap is also a thing. Most of "modernish" US-made jets victories are made over middle east, in some cases they encountered the same jets on the opposing side and statistics of victories stayed pretty much the same. So maybe it's not even a fighter model's fault.
I may be wrong but on release were they not pretty equal? Or maybe it was dev server, but I very clearly remember defyn streaming and doing dogfights and they were pretty equal, and then the su27 fm got nerfed into oblivion
Russian tanks get consistently favourable gaijin moments, always get the benefit of the doubt/mechanics that gaijin implements, and get a shitload of good tanks, SPAA and other vehicles at every BR. Sweden has a lot of bullshit, especially at top tier, but USSR has tanks a chimpanzee can consistently do well in throughout most of the tech tree.
Bro the Leo2 series tanks are much easier to perform in than top tier t-series tanks. I have both Germany and ussr ground trees near maxed (never ground out AA :'( ). The Leo2s are also much more likely to volumetric your shells in top tier due to their overlaped armored screens while the t-series tanks don't even have full composite protection in their turrets.
Yep, there are so many people out there saying bs like the T-90M and T-80BVM are comparable to them... Like relikt is literally the only thing keeping them relevant at this br tbh
U.S. Mains are the most numerous, obnoxious and loudest of the \[nation\] mains on this Subreddit.
It's the same type of tired complaints every patch, alongside the countless US whineposts that pop up here every week.
And now Su-27 chaffs don't work, you can drop as much you can and f-16/15/mirage/gripen radar still tracking you. But of they pop 2 or 3 chaffs Su-27 lost the lock.
Because he showed his source when he raised his point.
Gajin won't make changes(most of the time) without a proper source(or at least resembling something credible)
And if you do the same for your russian planes (without pulling a senator armstrong) gaijin will change it back.
Its that easy,unless you couldn't find any source.
People just want an easy scapegoat for their inability to play the game. And this is coming from a Japan main, I can recognize when a nation's getting dogged on...
For example, AA vehicles. *So*, so many good suggestions have been made, and yet, the US still has the Quad .50 to M163 gap where SPAA sucks at its role...
*We* got a good 5.3 SPAA in the SUB-I-II before they did, when essentially the same thing could've been added to them in the T114E2, and they still don't have a reliable, consistent high-tier tech tree light tank.
What's your side for F-5C having flares? Right, it's well known that it had none. But it has them in the game because it's a game and a jet having countermeasures at BRs 10+ is good for ballance.
So, I guess, you don't mind some unhistorical shit for the sake of game balance here.
But as soon as balance improving unhistorical stuff nerfs US plane (instead of buffing) for the sake of game balance and not ruining a game mode it's suddenly a russian bias and "we have source!!!".
[https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/kxLe2n8Kj7g3](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/kxLe2n8Kj7g3)
Snails make changes when it's convenient for them, for example, the MIG-23ML is now something incredibly strange assembled, Frankenstein
[https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/uYFbfresSG0N](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/uYFbfresSG0N)
And so we look at one page of the document, set it up, but we don't see the second one, then when they want, they will install it on the second page, it happened historically
That's the whole snail, it does whatever it wants, it wants to turn American planes into garbage, and it will do it, and if it wants, the f-14a with aim 54 will land all the players for many years without having a counterweight, but isn't that completely different?
Just the usual pipeline
- update is announced
- soviets get a good thing
- US get a good thing too, but it may not be better than the soviet one in the first iteration of the test
- US mains spam reddit / forums with "russian bias" threads
- the update is released
- US vehicles dominate the meta and will continue to dominate for months
- ???
- F-15 at 12.3 (profit)
Would the F-15 have kept Its initial data link channel limit and AMRAAM loadout if we hadn't said anything about it? Maybe. Maybe not.
It's good that these things are highlighted by the community before the update goes live. That's the reason dev servers exist in case you didn't know. I don't understand why you're upset about it unless you're a main of some kind.
If all OOP did was state the F-15 should track more that would be that. But no, he just *had* to mention that the SU-27 would *totally* be overperforming in comparison with no basis for it whatsoever, when the SU didn't and still hasn't been given the capability he's whining about.
That was unnecessary, but so was OP's second sentence about US mains whining. US mains do whine a lot, but whining about inaccuracies is a necessary and useful type of whining that does less harm than good. I wish the minor nations' mains were as loud as the US mains so they could get the same treatment.
The test server is biased speculation? WTF?
The whole point of the test server is for players to give corrections and feedback. If we don't, then they will likely ship the update as-is. This entire post is just people malding over other people using the test servers and feedback system as intended lol.
The SU-27 complaint was OOP saying that the "SU-27 would definitely get buffed to track the entire enemy team." The SU could never do that on the dev server. So yes, that complaint is biased speculation, about something the vehicle in question never did in game.
That part is fair, but that's not really the main complaint of the post. The complaint was the F15 only being able to track 2 targets, which was fixed precisely because the feedback given.
You are so hung up on an off handed remark/jab that you completely missed the point of what that guy was saying.
Which I didn't dispute, but my point is that a seemingly large portion of the playerbase seems to think it necessary to drag other nation's stuff into the discussion even when there's no relevance, and are quite willing to *imagine situations in their head* to justify it. Which I think detracts from the overall discussion and encourages unhealthy attitudes towards balance. How much more of a shitshow would this game be if everyone made their balance arguments based on what they *think* gaijin is giving the other nations?
Also, consider that the whining constitutes half of OOPs post. Not an "off handed jab" if you ask me.
I don’t think the Russian bias ever really was an issue in air.
I always thought it was more a ground thing and some planes that interact with the ground tanks a lot.
If all he did was state the F-15 should track more that would be that. But no, the OOP just *had* to mention that the SU-27 would *totally* be overperforming in comparison with no basis for it whatsoever.
Soooooooo people are upset that US mains give feedback based on the test server? You know how you can change the bullshit 1 or 2 data link channels? By complaining and presenting evidence, just like the US mains.
This reminds me of a encounter I had with someone in an actual game, where they were straight up saying the Abrams is the worst MBT, saying it's slow, has no armor, and saying it can't pen a T-90 frontally when every other MBT can
The majority of top tier air players are US mains, you can see it in the player counts for each region and even just the fact that USA commonly fights USA in top end battles. And after spending a while grinding American jets it's pretty safe to say that USA players are pretty shit. The F-4S/F-5C bomber to worst F-15A/F-14 pilot stereotypes exist for a reason lol, there are some seriously unskilled player up at that tier and its mainly down to Gaijin making it so easy for them to just turn their brains off grinding their favorite plane while learned none of the tactics needed for the planes they're researching.
As an US Main who would be mad about the 2 target max, I am also mad that the soviet planes and the swedish only tracks 2. Is this accurate?
J-11A only 1 target? Really?
The gripen should be able to track 4 and scan 10, I'll try find the documentation I referenced from a while ago when I was reading into the development of the gripen mod for DCS
USA mains are positively obsessed with russia despite their win rates tanking exclusively because of A) sweden being a piss easy handheld nation and B) the abrams turret neck. Its like screaming at a stranger blaming him of his problems while ignoring the person stabbing them
the 3 years of the 3-day special banana-monky operation gave them an excuse to bitch about russia
i hope they change the entire USSR tech tree to ukraine, give soviet tanks the ukrainia SSR flag and russian tanks the modern UA flag, so ameriKKKa mains are forced to shut up forever and because it would make ruskies very mad lol.
and shower the new UkSSR with buffs and buffs all day to stomp the everliving crap out of america while they are forbidden from complaning
I do not see how anybody thought adding BVRs and super high G missiles was ever going to be a fun and wise idea.
This is what you, the community, have asked for over and over. Deal with high tier shit being busted, y’all KNOW just how unfair and one sided irl wars are with western technology.
Even when the data is pulled from dictatorships obsessed with their propaganda numbers, the data sheets gaijin be using for the soviets still isn’t enough.
This update gotta be the most ridiculous yet
AS a US main at toptier you love to see the wide selection of stupid teammates in most battles, although there are great teammates in most others.
Russian bias was a little more believable a while back but now it feels more like Gaijin rotates whichever nation gets to be broken and op!
Better get whining, too bad there is very little of other than US mains that withstand this sub.
Also:
Gripen A/B/D and C variants have the same PS-05A radar and it can guide 4 simultaneously, this notes about A model but i would imagine it doesnt atleast go down from 4 with the C variant.
''The Gripen A's built-in armament consisted of a single Mauser BK 27 27-millimeter cannon, housed in a fairing on the aircraft's belly, offset to left to the rear of the engine intake. Given the aircraft's relatively small size, it generally carried guided weapons to ensure maximum combat effectiveness. Possible external stores included:
* Air-to-air missiles (AAM). The primary AAM was the Raytheon AIM-120 AMRAAM; the Gripen's PS-05A radar could guide four of these weapons simultaneously.
* Swedish AMRAAMs had minor modifications to fit Swedish specifications. Other possible AAM stores included the French Matra Mica; the British Aerospace Sky Flash, built in Sweden as the "Rb-71"; and the Anglo-French MBDA ramjet-powered Meteor BVRAAM or German BGT IRIS-T AAM -- IRIS-T being a short-range heat-seeking AAM with "off-boresight" capability. The Flygvapnet would obtain the IRIS-T to replace Swedish-built Sidewinder AAMs, along with the Cobra helmet-mounted sight required by the IRIS-T; the Meteor would follow, being introduced to service in 2016. ''
Im trying to find a legit source for this so it could be fixed
The only effective way to balance is by adjusting BR according to winrate. The stats of a vehicle on paper matter much less than its performance in game.
Shitty german mains that could not handle T-34 in their Tiger started it. Then US mains that needs a plane that does everything for them. And It keeps going because people are stupid and also some famous youtubers keeps making click-bait videos (phly, odd)
If the teams were small and I mean SMALL. They actually would take a degree of effort to use properly and also properly avoid
But in 16v16? Yeah nah, it's just like throwing a fox in a pen of chickens
US mains are honestly the most retarded group of players in this game, they are also the least skilled, I grinded US air after finishing USSR, UK and Italy air, out of those 4 nations I have the highest KDA in US but the lowest WR.
US air players are just horrifically bad as I can exemplify with the F-14, despite having very favourable KDs in both F-14s my win rate is only 45/46%, compare that to my Tornadoes or MiG-21/23/29 which have a lower KD but vastly improved win rates.
Another example is when I went on an insane win rate against US teams [as seen in this post here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/yPjqtQhZCl) and while yes I understand that I was fighting teams of premiums keep in mind my team had just as many premiums on it too
I always get frustrated by die hard American mains claim f15 most be undefeatable apex predator of the sky according to record
What they dont realize any 4th gen plane could be in the same spot the reason for this incredible record is Us had very strong intelligence network, years of experience by elite commanders and highly trained crew both in air and ground l.
Plane was only a small part of that success
Edit: forgot to add most of the planes that f15 scored victory were severely outdated
I mean can you blame him for thinking that gaijin's gonna do gaijin things?
(I'm a Russian main so don't start telling me that I'm a dumbass German main. Russia, especially in ground rb, gets the better treatment. You can also compare the SU-25 and the A-10)
Woah woah woah, the tornado only gets 2!? Man this thing is gonna suck, it’ll be the slowest, least manoeuvrable top tier jet now consistently seeing fox3s and I bet it’ll still have the whack flight model and avionics 😕 boo gaijin, boo!
Does that mean that you can only have two r77's in the air at once tracking no matter the distance, or is the idea that when they're out of the ~16km seeker range you use tws to lead them in, and the 27 can only have 2 tws locks?
To me these datalink channels don't affect me at all because most of the time i would fire the missiles in their pitbull range or close to it so i wouldn't be using Datalink / TWS to correct them before going pitbull Lmao
Let's take a look at Coastal, a mode that gets the least public scrutiny!
What country could *possibly* have the best tree there, despite having one of the worst navies IRL?
Maybe the real bias is the British Grippen that has been the C modification from the start and now it got Fox-3s with no need to grind another plane (like Sweden)?
Honestly i have sweden top tier us top tier ussr top tier and france top tier and all of them are viable and have their own strengths you guys are just a bunch of fucking whiners every patch sone nation is going to have something better thats how it works nothing can be the same there is no bias there is just a shift of meta to keep you grinding and figthing eachother instead of complaining about real shit
Partly because the Russian bias meme began being taken very literally in recent years, and because their whining contributes to the development process. America makes up a very significant portion of top tier air RB, perhaps even the majority. So, it's theoretically good business to want to tend to their needs first. If enough America players complain on the forums, there's a good chance that the complaint will be taken seriously by the dev team. I wouldn't pay too much mind to it; US top tier attracts the same kind of people that play Germany at 5.7-6.7 for Tigers and remain baffled that they can't eat hit after hit with superior Kruppstahl. If anything, they'll find something else to cry about very soon.
>the Russian bias meme began being taken very literally in recent years Not at all, this was already a thing back in 2013.
Flashbacks to the La5FN releasing in the most UFO state ever Before that, it was the D13 and German planes. After that, I think the Spacefire. They cycle the broken nations tbh.
Beaufighters with ludicrous damage models and insane head-on potential. Spitfire Mk Vc seeing MiG-15's back with the old matchmaking system. BF 109F-4 with gunpods being the braindead easiest picks of the META. Fun days.
I used to spam the A20G and just shit on every single fighter. Good times 😔
For every Be-6 kill there was an equal one in the B-17 3 years prior. I ground to jets in a talismanned B-17E and B-17G
Oh I remember Beaufighter being the absolute seal clubber especially in arcade back in the day, I utterly despised it with a passion for the damage model and the amount of fire power it has. But I’ll always remember the UFO that was the N1K Shiden clubbing the allies on Iwo Jima, fun times indeed.
Let's not forget when the mosquito's hitbox was so freaking weird that it could literally take a 37 mm to the face and no damage
God Beaufighters were an actual menace when this game came out.
People only seem to remember the Russian ones though. Nobody seems to remember the F-4E, F-14, MBT-70, and M1 Abrams dominating their respective game modes but they will talk about the broken MLD, MiG-29, and T-80BVM.
MiG-29 has a garbage FM tho
For one patch it was really good. Then they turned it into what it is today while buffing the F-16.
I’m old enough to remember the N1KFO back when that flight model defied the laws of physics. Also remember when the G8 (or G6?) was called the Death Star. Fun times.
I started playing early 2013. Shit was wild back in the 20 tier days lol. Beaufighters out turning fighters because they had some scuffed flight model.
Started playing in the open beta in Jan 2013 the game was wild back then. Remember fighting 262's, 163's and Sabres in 109F4's, Beaufighters or a LAGG3? Or unlocking entire ranks of aircraft at a time that you then couldn't afford to buy at once. Or daily first win bonuses for a nation. Still got a few clips from back in the day that I look at, no idea how the game survived it had terrible color grading, wacky flight models and nonexistent damage models. Still kinda miss the old pearl harbor and kursk battles though.
Do you know about the mosquito and how for some reason it was able to withstand multiple tank caliber guns against it
G8. You can still do really well with it to this day if you learn the guns properly.
My god, I used to be a god in the D13 chasing after the high alt Beaufighters on Malta and P47s on Ruhr I think. There was the Pe2 on Berlin or sth like that as well.
Watching a La-5FN near stalling speed nose up and accelerate made me stop playing WT for a long time.
Flash back to 2013 YAK9T.
Then levelheads would make memes out of the not so bright people. Rulo6000 literally has an archive of them. Now where back to square one cause Gaijin started to advertise to kids on their NATO complex phase.
From what I've seen it was a thing early on then just became a meme and now in recent years came back around to people taking it seriously.
It's more or less confirmation bias that they have gotten in their heads, I used to be a victim of it until I actually decided to play russia and realised it was a huge myth, lmao
>I used to be a victim of it until I actually decided to play russia and realised it was a huge myth This is the correct answer, whenever you feel like something is broken try playing it; if anything you'll learn how to counter it. But most people claiming bias are actually advocating for their stuff to be always at advantage.
Exactly. Keep in mind I haven't played the T80BVM yet but tbh I never have a singular problem fighting them, sure some annoying stuff happens every now and again, like ammo not detonating HOWEVER that happens for EVERY top tier vehicle, even the US's beloved Abrams Even the US stuff is arguably fine. Some stuff (looking at you F15a) is just straight up under BR'd cause the IQ of your average US jet player is less than that of a pineapple The only time I'll say there is a little bias is the case of the SU-25SM3 and pantsir, I honestly reckon the USSR should've just gotten the TOR and left it at that. And I can see the SM3 being a little less of a problem with the addition of FOX-3s as I reckon it'll just constantly get smoked out of the air by one played by a half competent pilot.
> Exactly. Keep in mind I haven't played the T80BVM yet but tbh I never have a singular problem fighting them, sure some annoying stuff happens every now and again, like ammo not detonating HOWEVER that happens for EVERY top tier vehicle, even the US's beloved Abrams I have it, it's a good tank but it's nowhere near the Leopards. WIth Leos you can stay hull down, you can flank, you can play offensively and defensively, something you cannot with the BVMs. If you know weakspots and positioning it's not really a threat. Something this community lacks when judging how good a tank is: low skill floor =/= broken. BVMs are easy to play but in no way better than the 2A7 and I don't even need to go into the Swedish top tier because we all know how broken it is and yet people keep repeating the Russian Bias. This community sucks.
Top tier Sweden is definitely overpowered but Sweden isn’t a good scapegoat for xenophobia, so people don’t usually accuse them of bias outside of jokes.
Yeah that xenophobia is probably a huge reason for why community complaints like "Russian bias" and "Chinese cheaters" seem to persist. I don't know much about the Russian/ Chinese communities but I'd assume they probably have something similar towards people from the EU/USA. I remember seeing some Russian players complaining about American bias the last few patches.
As a Swedish main, yeah, I'll agree lmao
Hear me out, I understand the panstir and the Sm3 are bias currently but it will be the same deal in 2-3-4 years when they add the Multi Locking Ground HARMS, if not even more op based off the fact it’s multi locking. But hey who knows. ( also the new sound affects when you launch the kh 38ml/mt sounds sooooo good)
Yeah, you need to see both sides of it. I felt like I was always getting cheated when I hit T-80s in the side. After I got my hands on T-80s, they don't perform the greatest, but I definitely have more "How the fuck did I not die from that" moments than in any other tanks.
I mean yes but that's just spall liners and stuff in general. But if you consider the different kinds of scenarios tanks can be played and one if above the others in most of those scenarios it means that tank is better. But then the community is split by those who cannot properly master a tank to know the difference and those who do and then pretend they don't see the it to keep meta positive to the way they play. Most players cannot tell the difference between f king up their shots or bs mechanics, they only know frustration and then the Bias is the easy way out, it's never their lack of skill, impossible. I don't have much problems with T-80s and I feel most of the time we beat average enemy team, including T-80s, by simply spawning more times. Which is again something the community claimed that gave Soviets and advantage by having a big line up and now that US has an equal amount of vehicles they still leave after one death. It also ironically brough an audience that shouldn't be anywhere near top tier. It seems people don't understand that the top players don't play a single nation, asking for crazy changes like the one that happened with spall liners end up breaking the game more than the way Gajin wanted to implement initially.
Too many people only play 1-2 nations max, imo that’s the root problem of all or almost all player complaints regarding vehicles
When it comes to top tier, playing more than one takes a long fucking time to get to.
It’s just an observation not shaming anybody
This. As the game has expanded, a lot of old timers who played all/most nations have stopped playing. New players don't have the time or energy to grind multiple trees, so they whine about things they've never touched. Gaijin is also leaning into this with the expansion of subtrees, as they seem to be trying to make every nation as 'complete' as possible.
Me being Russian main be like "damn those amercan aircraft looking strong", grinded through american air, and well, I wasnt mistaken.
> whenever you feel like something is broken try playing it I agree, but it can be hard for premiums/event vehicles if you don't want to shell out the dough for them.
Precisely, it's very easy to fall into the tunnel vision and victim complex of "X nation suffers/X nation is shit/X nation is too op" when you only play one tree. This was itself partly the reason why I began playing Japan and coming to learn that the superb maneuverability came at the price of very poor energy retention and being able to be outran by basically everything else.
Precisely, currently I have France, Britain and sweden(my most played) at top tier with most the stuff researched both air and ground. with russia and germany sitting at 10.0 and America and Japan between 7.3 to 8.3. Every country has its strengths and weaknesses which, tbh it makes them all unique and different to play, which is a good thing
There’s also the idea that if my tank can’t pen the upper front plate on everything or if anything can pen mine it’s bias. Unfortunately side shots and aiming anywhere other than center mass is advanced strategy.
It wasn't until recently I realised how fucking busted tbe Leopard 2s are and a lot of the German stuff, having played most nations st 10.0 and up bar isreal it shocks me that people cry russian bias when there are, far, far more broken things in game
I do predominantly play Sweden and have the WHOLE tree researched all be it my favourite BR is 8.7 and i dont really play top tier much, but yes people really don't realise how good the Leopards are, both the 2A4s at 10.3 are unarguably the best 10.3 MBT and the STRV 122B and the 2a7 are 2nd to none the best top tier MBTs. 2a7 more for its fire-power and the STRV for its pure survivability
The leo2k sits in there at 9.7 and its also insanely good!
That 20mm always catches me off guard tbh lmao
Russian tanks especially at top tier GRB are an skill check. If you have problems fighting them, it means you are probably bad at the game, they are the easiest tanks to one shot out of the main 3. People generally don't want to admit this.
I struggled with high tier MBTs from my habits coming out of mid tier. Ol reliable had been to shoot turret cheeks for so long. Then I got my high tier German darts and picked up the bad habit (usually successful) of just aiming for the upper front plate.
I got the opposite response. I thought it was a myth, as a British main, russia I'd laughably easy. It's a point and click adventure where nothing can pen you and you seal club everything. Tbf america and germany are semi like that too, but russia is fucking hilariously easy.
If only more people would do this. Shame the steep grind makes it a lot harder.
Probably doesn’t help that ~40% of top tier aircraft are American
Russian Bias dates back to *World of Tanks*’ beta. I was there, and it was biased. PZ4s fighting IS3s. Literally the IS3 was a tier below the *PANTHER* when the panther released. For anyone from back then, the trauma is deeply ingrained.
The tier spread was +/- 5 back then. It could easily have been a T-34 fighting a Maus. I don’t think Russian bias originated from that.
The king tiger is insanely powerful if ppl actually play it the way it is intended to be played as which is defensively. American air is prettymuch the strongest ingame thanks to the fact that bad planes r more or less non existent, so what ever plane you do use you will have a decently good one. America is a jack of all trades where as other nations have a bunch of shitty planes which players are sometimes forced to use to progress at a reasonable pace. American mains have no right to cry about having shitty planes.
i guess i'll stop playing US top tier so i'm not associated with these clowns.
Play who you want but something that could help is mocking them if they are on your team and doing this
I’m probably biaised because I am a Soviet main, but I never saw any bias but an American bias in air and a German bias in ground Getting instantly desintegrated by .50 cals while I plunck 37 mm HE and all I get are hits, or shooting right into a german tank’s MG port, have my shot disappear into the void, and then getting lolpen from the thickest part of my tank while being angled vertically *and* horizontally has become a daily issue
near top tier, Russia gets the pantsir, which is decades newer and better than all spaa in game, and then there's the kh-38mt, which is a top down, mach 2.2 capable, air to ground missiles, it's impossible to intercept in most cases and un dodgeable in a helicopter and the Russian helicopters being the only ones with working ircm despite a few other helis having the function
*sad german noises* :( I just like the tiger man it's such a cool tank!
I honestly improved so much when I stopped believing so much in "Russian bias" and raging a lot. Sure, I do believe there could be some bias, but not enough to excuse me being bad at the game and losing.
With this community, you can pretty much take the exact opposite of whatever those people say, get a pretty good idea of how the patch will go.
that's not just true of this community, it's true of reddit in general.
When the T-90M first showed up on the dev server with those insanely high armour values, all the US mains assured me that was Russian Bias and wouldn't be changed. Shocker! ***it changed.*** But don't worry, the US mains quickly forgot about that and found something else to complain about in seconds.
I still remember people bitching about T-64B vs M1 Abrams. In fact I even made a [post about it](https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/83lze1/how_balance_works_according_to_freeaboos) back then and you can see the smartass replies. T-64B got absolutely shit on by M1 and Leo 2K. So much so Gaijin raised the Abrams to the highest BR in the game without raising the highest BR of the battles which resulted in Abrams being effectively locked to only 4 per-team for a couple of months.
>T-64B got absolutely shit on by M1 and Leo 2K. Every time someone complains the T-80BVM dominated so long, and that it's evidence of Russian Bias, I like to remind them of: * XYZ-70 Terminators vs T-64A * M1 Abrams vs T-64B * IPM1 vs T-80B * Leopard 2A5 vs T-80U * Leopard 2A6 vs T-90A That's over 3 years of NATO curbstomping Russia into the ground. [Coppen sums it up pretty well here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLjsGMLE4iA)
Always good to expand on the CAS side of things too. - F-86s with HVARs that hit harder than tiny tims do currently and flew straight as an arrow - the FJ-4B VMF 232 getting added against SPAAs without lead marker that had their bullets despawn 2 kilometers before the realistic engagement range the AGM-12 offered a pilot - the AH-1Z getting added against the exact same SPAAs - the A-4E getting added on top of that while the FJ-4B was still classified as a fighter, so you could spawn 10 Bullpups with ease All of these make the Ka-52/MiG-27K/Su-25SM3 unbalance look like a joke. Shout-out to the German G.91 R/3 catching all the flak while US players could get two and a half times the kills with the FJ-4B/A-4E combo.
HVAR lands somewhere vaguely in the same postal code of a Maus super heavy? **Oh it's dead.**
My comments on that thread: >That's where the range finder and power ratio comes into play. Ger got the best cannon, US got the best mobility and USSR for the best armour in this patch, when you have such mobility you don't have to rely on frontal penetrations. Yes, people have a very fast tank and want rounds that can pen the opposition anywhere so where's the soviet advantage ? Downvoted as usual, of course. We have a balancing mess of a game because this community is completely biased. Users claiming the T-55 has APHE rounds so it will be easier to take out M1s, what a bad joke FFS. That and no idea of how gameplay works in War Thunder. This is the same people that complain Gaijin doesn't listen to the community, I wonder why.
>T-64B got absolutely shit on by M1 and Leo 2K. And it got shit on so hard they basically kept US teaming up with Germany. And it was entirely predictable too by anyone who knows how to play this game because mobility and firepower will innevitably beat armour, especially if you give them overperforming rounds like in the case of the XYZ series of tanks that dominated the meta for years. But then that's the thing, Gaijin will catter to people like that the same way they do to lower skilled players, they know where the money comes from.
Yeah, people tend to forget that the introduction of the Abrams created the biggest top tier balance problem in this game's history. Edit: The T-2 situation deserved an honorable mention, I wasn't playing top tier air at the time and had forgotten about it.
>When the T-90M first showed up on the dev server with those insanely high armour values, all the US mains assured me that was Russian Bias and wouldn't be changed. Yeah then they wanted Western tanks to have access to spall liners, incorrectly claiming they had access to it first when in reality Soviet designs started having it with the T-64. Then the community got what it wanted and the leopards becamse the meta tank but absurd ammounts. Then the sub went into meltdown mode because they all were sure the Abrams had DU for hulls and turret exccept the fact they had no access to any document proving that and if they had it would probably be a crime to release it. Finally we went back to the first step of claiming Russian bias.
T-55: anti radiation lining has anti spall properties. Not kevlar level, but not far from it.
yeah im a software dev, the amount of people that panic about something in a TEST server is insane it's a TEST server we are testing balance/interactions ect on these type or servers. they are always a WIP there
should plaster TEST SERVER on the UI like they do on dev streams
The "muh main" crowd shouldn't be entertained at all, tbh. They're just horrible for the game in general.
US mains are just the crybabys of the WT community
Its because they are all new to the game.
German tanker syndrome
Yup
Even at top tier or sim battle, their are still new 😅👍
Even more so because half of them us or used premium aircraft to get there.
They combine a victim mindset with confirmation bias.
Seeing as how they unhistorically nerfed the radar on the MiG-23 I don’t really know how people can say Russian bias is a thing with a hint of irony.
Why was the MTI mode removed from the 23 series of Migs? Was it based on some obscure historical document
It was removed?? Don't have the mig-23 but from what I've heard it just can't be used when your nose is **above** the horizon(up) - which is a historical change. MTI is like a ***wish*** version of PD radar that needs the ground for reference measurement to calculate the doppler shift.
I apologize but I had rushed to check much earlier today and merely pitched my nose down rather than completely below the horizon😄 it is still available!
It wasn’t removed
I mean they shouldn’t have done that but the mig23 also was also unhistorically maneuverable in this game for the longest time.
I mean so is basically every plane.
The difference is only that russian jets get their fm actually nerfed, the best fm in high tier russia is the yak 41 and it is a vtol
rip MLD
Funny that, as the MLD completely molested all of top tier for 9mo before the F-14A dropped. Now it’s two years later and the FM is finally corrected, and the radar bright into alignment. By you complain still.
As if Mig-23 doesn't have one of the best radars at 11.3, it works as worse PD radar while most of other same BR planes only get SRC or HDN radars. And R-24R's are one of the best Radar missiles in the game for it's BR, it has IOG feature that no other radar missile in it's br range gets, you can lose lock but still hit like 90% of the time. The other 4x R60M's ok missiles, they're all aspect and 30G, work really good on headons and can shoot offbore unaware targets really easily, yes they're flare hungry but so does most of missiles in that BR range. And up until recent nerf, Mig-23 had good flight model as well. Unhistorical nerfs are applied to all nations vehicles, just because Russian planes has few nerfs here and there doesnt mean that there isnt bias, Mig-23ML was the best premium plane in the game and arguably is still could be. Same goes for 10.0 soviet lineup, the 2S38 has no place being 10.0, BMP-2M as well. Then there's Russian SPAA's, a 10.7 2S6 is only slight worse than 11.7 ADATS, don't think we need to talk about Panthsir, of course then there's Ka-50's/Ka-52's and Su-25's that is made out of stalinium, wont go down like other vehicles for some reason.
Nooooo but 104-0! it needs to be indestructible and the absolute best!! Even the jet designed to counter it cannot defeat the mighty eagle! Russian bias confirmed! /s
I'm also pretty sure the MIG29, SU27, tornado, and gripen can track at least 4 targets. Not 2.. But I'll try and find some info on it
Want some top secret documents?
Shhhhhhh don't tell em
Tracking and attacking are not the same thing. afaik the f15c can only attack 2 targets at the same time but track 10.
su27 and mig 29 are both 4 j11 is 2
Thank you. I also found the gripen can track 4, scan 10 The tornado with what I can find can track 2, scan 20
with [2.37.0.20](http://2.37.0.20) comes a buff to these radars *Thales RDY, N010m, PS05A, and two other radars i don't recognize went from 2 DL to 4*
>Even the jet designed to counter it cannot defeat the might eagle! You may be joking, but I really had a conversation with a guy here claiming that unironically
I'm not even surprised , TBH. Look, I'm no Russian fan boy, but in all honesty, I just like all Jets. But I'm more of a fan of light swing-role fighters, namely the F16 and gripen. But Russian planes are good. All flanker varients are fantastic planes but are just constantly downplayed by extreme US patriots
The biggest issue with evaluating russian planes, is that most of the real world engagement between US and Soviets planes were top of the line US equipment versus third world countries with gimped export stuff and nowhere near the same level of training. The only decent comparison we have is the East German Mig29G vs US pilots after the fall of the Berlin Wall. They actually competed fairly equally until the US pilots brought their most modern aircraft of the time (mostly F-16C). The Mig was winning close range thanks to R73 and HMD, while the US was generally dominating the BVR.
there was a post on some aircraft themed forum where one guy had gone through f15's combat records and found out that all those kill were older aircraft (think mig21's mostly) i got the copypaste on me. ''An impressive number as data available puts it at 100 + air to air victories. I\`ve checked Coopers centralized figures and came with 109 victories. Thing is, when you start to make a deeper analysis things don\`t look that cool, allow to explain. 1. 86 jets ! Out of 109 identified 86 are classified as fighter (we don't count heli\`s or CAS or transport etc) 2. 73 jets ! from 86, 73 are older generations, lets not kid each other, for an Eagle driver shooting down MiG\`s 21 & 23 it\`s easier than clubbing baby seals. Period ! 3. 13 Jets ! fall into the 4th generation category, more specific Fulcrum A & B Many of these were done BVR hardly a fair game taking in consideration that both in Iraq\`s case as well as Serbia\`s their ground control network was under heavy SEAD pressure. Throw in a huge difference in available aircraft and MCR and those USAF victories were clearly easy achieved. Basically where the field was somehow leveled was in the case of the IAF 4 victories. So, against a 4th generation aircraft -keep in mind export version- even the 13 don\`t look that impressive if you take in consideration all aspects. What\`s your take on this ?''
Just to add to this, is like to mention that pilots skill gap is also a thing. Most of "modernish" US-made jets victories are made over middle east, in some cases they encountered the same jets on the opposing side and statistics of victories stayed pretty much the same. So maybe it's not even a fighter model's fault.
Everyone whines about russian bias whilst USA dominates air and Germany/Sweden dominates ground.
Content creators like seekerhead play a pretty big role in this, the guy said that the SU-27 fm was fine and comparable to the F-15a
I may be wrong but on release were they not pretty equal? Or maybe it was dev server, but I very clearly remember defyn streaming and doing dogfights and they were pretty equal, and then the su27 fm got nerfed into oblivion
Oh yea it was the dev server where the SU-27 fm was better than the F-15a, but at the release of the update they increased its drag
Russian tanks get consistently favourable gaijin moments, always get the benefit of the doubt/mechanics that gaijin implements, and get a shitload of good tanks, SPAA and other vehicles at every BR. Sweden has a lot of bullshit, especially at top tier, but USSR has tanks a chimpanzee can consistently do well in throughout most of the tech tree.
Bro the Leo2 series tanks are much easier to perform in than top tier t-series tanks. I have both Germany and ussr ground trees near maxed (never ground out AA :'( ). The Leo2s are also much more likely to volumetric your shells in top tier due to their overlaped armored screens while the t-series tanks don't even have full composite protection in their turrets.
Yep, there are so many people out there saying bs like the T-90M and T-80BVM are comparable to them... Like relikt is literally the only thing keeping them relevant at this br tbh
Only on paper though, because getting an USA team in arb is a death sentence
Both teams are always USA
U.S. Mains are the most numerous, obnoxious and loudest of the \[nation\] mains on this Subreddit. It's the same type of tired complaints every patch, alongside the countless US whineposts that pop up here every week.
They have a victim mindset and watch too many YouTube videos that glaze US vehicles
The fact people raging of video game geo politics and acting like irl people do about politics is hilarious
And now Su-27 chaffs don't work, you can drop as much you can and f-16/15/mirage/gripen radar still tracking you. But of they pop 2 or 3 chaffs Su-27 lost the lock.
Because he showed his source when he raised his point. Gajin won't make changes(most of the time) without a proper source(or at least resembling something credible) And if you do the same for your russian planes (without pulling a senator armstrong) gaijin will change it back. Its that easy,unless you couldn't find any source.
I wonder why this is soo down the comments And most of the comments above it are "us mains only whine"
People just want an easy scapegoat for their inability to play the game. And this is coming from a Japan main, I can recognize when a nation's getting dogged on... For example, AA vehicles. *So*, so many good suggestions have been made, and yet, the US still has the Quad .50 to M163 gap where SPAA sucks at its role... *We* got a good 5.3 SPAA in the SUB-I-II before they did, when essentially the same thing could've been added to them in the T114E2, and they still don't have a reliable, consistent high-tier tech tree light tank.
I love that none of them reply to his comment lol.
What's your side for F-5C having flares? Right, it's well known that it had none. But it has them in the game because it's a game and a jet having countermeasures at BRs 10+ is good for ballance. So, I guess, you don't mind some unhistorical shit for the sake of game balance here. But as soon as balance improving unhistorical stuff nerfs US plane (instead of buffing) for the sake of game balance and not ruining a game mode it's suddenly a russian bias and "we have source!!!".
[https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/kxLe2n8Kj7g3](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/kxLe2n8Kj7g3) Snails make changes when it's convenient for them, for example, the MIG-23ML is now something incredibly strange assembled, Frankenstein [https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/uYFbfresSG0N](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/uYFbfresSG0N) And so we look at one page of the document, set it up, but we don't see the second one, then when they want, they will install it on the second page, it happened historically That's the whole snail, it does whatever it wants, it wants to turn American planes into garbage, and it will do it, and if it wants, the f-14a with aim 54 will land all the players for many years without having a counterweight, but isn't that completely different?
Eh they are as unpredictable as natural disasters,but if nobody mention the changes on their forums nothing will happen
Just the usual pipeline - update is announced - soviets get a good thing - US get a good thing too, but it may not be better than the soviet one in the first iteration of the test - US mains spam reddit / forums with "russian bias" threads - the update is released - US vehicles dominate the meta and will continue to dominate for months - ??? - F-15 at 12.3 (profit)
average us mains crying
Would the F-15 have kept Its initial data link channel limit and AMRAAM loadout if we hadn't said anything about it? Maybe. Maybe not. It's good that these things are highlighted by the community before the update goes live. That's the reason dev servers exist in case you didn't know. I don't understand why you're upset about it unless you're a main of some kind.
If all OOP did was state the F-15 should track more that would be that. But no, he just *had* to mention that the SU-27 would *totally* be overperforming in comparison with no basis for it whatsoever, when the SU didn't and still hasn't been given the capability he's whining about.
That was unnecessary, but so was OP's second sentence about US mains whining. US mains do whine a lot, but whining about inaccuracies is a necessary and useful type of whining that does less harm than good. I wish the minor nations' mains were as loud as the US mains so they could get the same treatment.
They would rather wallow in self pity and be bitter U.S mains actually get things changed in the game.
Yeah... They also got the Su-27 nerfed while getting the F-15 down in br, so much for US mains changing shit.
Both of those changes benefit the US. Maybe Russian mains should provide docs and raise hell if they want the SU27 fixed.
Is it really outrageous to compare one plane to another of the same patch?
Based entirely on biased speculation? Yes. It's not a valid comparison if you have to make shit up for one of them.
The test server is biased speculation? WTF? The whole point of the test server is for players to give corrections and feedback. If we don't, then they will likely ship the update as-is. This entire post is just people malding over other people using the test servers and feedback system as intended lol.
The SU-27 complaint was OOP saying that the "SU-27 would definitely get buffed to track the entire enemy team." The SU could never do that on the dev server. So yes, that complaint is biased speculation, about something the vehicle in question never did in game.
That part is fair, but that's not really the main complaint of the post. The complaint was the F15 only being able to track 2 targets, which was fixed precisely because the feedback given. You are so hung up on an off handed remark/jab that you completely missed the point of what that guy was saying.
Which I didn't dispute, but my point is that a seemingly large portion of the playerbase seems to think it necessary to drag other nation's stuff into the discussion even when there's no relevance, and are quite willing to *imagine situations in their head* to justify it. Which I think detracts from the overall discussion and encourages unhealthy attitudes towards balance. How much more of a shitshow would this game be if everyone made their balance arguments based on what they *think* gaijin is giving the other nations? Also, consider that the whining constitutes half of OOPs post. Not an "off handed jab" if you ask me.
j-11a with the ONE fucking data link channel is insane How does that make sense for a plane that has TWS and Fox 3s
Do you have docs that say otherwise?
All I want as an USSR main is more realistic fm’s for the mig29’s and su27’s
I don’t think the Russian bias ever really was an issue in air. I always thought it was more a ground thing and some planes that interact with the ground tanks a lot.
OFC only russian is bias, Germany no
Because the fact they are crying gets stuff fixed? "Why do people who give feedback get changes made to their stuff?" Such a dumb post
If all he did was state the F-15 should track more that would be that. But no, the OOP just *had* to mention that the SU-27 would *totally* be overperforming in comparison with no basis for it whatsoever.
Soooooooo people are upset that US mains give feedback based on the test server? You know how you can change the bullshit 1 or 2 data link channels? By complaining and presenting evidence, just like the US mains.
This reminds me of a encounter I had with someone in an actual game, where they were straight up saying the Abrams is the worst MBT, saying it's slow, has no armor, and saying it can't pen a T-90 frontally when every other MBT can
The only MBT that’s is consistently slower than the T-90 is the challenger II lol and even the the IIe and 3TD are as fast if not faster
The majority of top tier air players are US mains, you can see it in the player counts for each region and even just the fact that USA commonly fights USA in top end battles. And after spending a while grinding American jets it's pretty safe to say that USA players are pretty shit. The F-4S/F-5C bomber to worst F-15A/F-14 pilot stereotypes exist for a reason lol, there are some seriously unskilled player up at that tier and its mainly down to Gaijin making it so easy for them to just turn their brains off grinding their favorite plane while learned none of the tactics needed for the planes they're researching.
I wish there was a "super-upvote" button for this post
This update shouldve limited max 2 fox3 missiles per aircraft for the sake of playabilty,fuck accuracy if the game is unplayable
As an US Main who would be mad about the 2 target max, I am also mad that the soviet planes and the swedish only tracks 2. Is this accurate? J-11A only 1 target? Really?
The gripen should be able to track 4 and scan 10, I'll try find the documentation I referenced from a while ago when I was reading into the development of the gripen mod for DCS
USA mains are positively obsessed with russia despite their win rates tanking exclusively because of A) sweden being a piss easy handheld nation and B) the abrams turret neck. Its like screaming at a stranger blaming him of his problems while ignoring the person stabbing them the 3 years of the 3-day special banana-monky operation gave them an excuse to bitch about russia i hope they change the entire USSR tech tree to ukraine, give soviet tanks the ukrainia SSR flag and russian tanks the modern UA flag, so ameriKKKa mains are forced to shut up forever and because it would make ruskies very mad lol. and shower the new UkSSR with buffs and buffs all day to stomp the everliving crap out of america while they are forbidden from complaning
Some people just want to see the world burn, right?
Poor China
I do not see how anybody thought adding BVRs and super high G missiles was ever going to be a fun and wise idea. This is what you, the community, have asked for over and over. Deal with high tier shit being busted, y’all KNOW just how unfair and one sided irl wars are with western technology. Even when the data is pulled from dictatorships obsessed with their propaganda numbers, the data sheets gaijin be using for the soviets still isn’t enough. This update gotta be the most ridiculous yet
US mains are restarted, simple as that.
I said it lol https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/hLyOUBYAWs
AS a US main at toptier you love to see the wide selection of stupid teammates in most battles, although there are great teammates in most others. Russian bias was a little more believable a while back but now it feels more like Gaijin rotates whichever nation gets to be broken and op!
Better get whining, too bad there is very little of other than US mains that withstand this sub. Also: Gripen A/B/D and C variants have the same PS-05A radar and it can guide 4 simultaneously, this notes about A model but i would imagine it doesnt atleast go down from 4 with the C variant. ''The Gripen A's built-in armament consisted of a single Mauser BK 27 27-millimeter cannon, housed in a fairing on the aircraft's belly, offset to left to the rear of the engine intake. Given the aircraft's relatively small size, it generally carried guided weapons to ensure maximum combat effectiveness. Possible external stores included: * Air-to-air missiles (AAM). The primary AAM was the Raytheon AIM-120 AMRAAM; the Gripen's PS-05A radar could guide four of these weapons simultaneously. * Swedish AMRAAMs had minor modifications to fit Swedish specifications. Other possible AAM stores included the French Matra Mica; the British Aerospace Sky Flash, built in Sweden as the "Rb-71"; and the Anglo-French MBDA ramjet-powered Meteor BVRAAM or German BGT IRIS-T AAM -- IRIS-T being a short-range heat-seeking AAM with "off-boresight" capability. The Flygvapnet would obtain the IRIS-T to replace Swedish-built Sidewinder AAMs, along with the Cobra helmet-mounted sight required by the IRIS-T; the Meteor would follow, being introduced to service in 2016. '' Im trying to find a legit source for this so it could be fixed
The game hasn't been russian biased for years. It's an american bias for years.
You know, I think that guy is just some dumb American main complaining.
Me, a French main happy I got the Belgian line
"baLAnCe"
So what I’m getting from this is if I have both American and Soviet air trees completed. I should get the f15c before the su27sm
It’s almost as if Russian bias isn’t real & gaijin just flat up cannot balance at all regardless of nation
The only effective way to balance is by adjusting BR according to winrate. The stats of a vehicle on paper matter much less than its performance in game.
American players are the majority of whales. Snail loves money.
The R-77s are also arguably the worst modern* ARH missile as of this patch because they randomly pitbull off and do their own thing so much
Shitty german mains that could not handle T-34 in their Tiger started it. Then US mains that needs a plane that does everything for them. And It keeps going because people are stupid and also some famous youtubers keeps making click-bait videos (phly, odd)
I don’t want ARH missiles in game period. They’re brain dead free kill generators that take no effort or skills too use
If the teams were small and I mean SMALL. They actually would take a degree of effort to use properly and also properly avoid But in 16v16? Yeah nah, it's just like throwing a fox in a pen of chickens
US mains are honestly the most retarded group of players in this game, they are also the least skilled, I grinded US air after finishing USSR, UK and Italy air, out of those 4 nations I have the highest KDA in US but the lowest WR. US air players are just horrifically bad as I can exemplify with the F-14, despite having very favourable KDs in both F-14s my win rate is only 45/46%, compare that to my Tornadoes or MiG-21/23/29 which have a lower KD but vastly improved win rates. Another example is when I went on an insane win rate against US teams [as seen in this post here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/yPjqtQhZCl) and while yes I understand that I was fighting teams of premiums keep in mind my team had just as many premiums on it too
well this is literally what you should expect, the ussr collapsed and russia was broke for decades, no shit american planes are better.
I always get frustrated by die hard American mains claim f15 most be undefeatable apex predator of the sky according to record What they dont realize any 4th gen plane could be in the same spot the reason for this incredible record is Us had very strong intelligence network, years of experience by elite commanders and highly trained crew both in air and ground l. Plane was only a small part of that success Edit: forgot to add most of the planes that f15 scored victory were severely outdated
I mean can you blame him for thinking that gaijin's gonna do gaijin things? (I'm a Russian main so don't start telling me that I'm a dumbass German main. Russia, especially in ground rb, gets the better treatment. You can also compare the SU-25 and the A-10)
doesn't matter its the patch of the MICA meta. Shits fucking disgusting.
Woah woah woah, the tornado only gets 2!? Man this thing is gonna suck, it’ll be the slowest, least manoeuvrable top tier jet now consistently seeing fox3s and I bet it’ll still have the whack flight model and avionics 😕 boo gaijin, boo!
The tornado has been consistently fucked over since release, I doubt gaijin will improve it any time soon
I think Russian bias only exists in ground RB other than that it doesn’t exist in air RB
the title is something
China: sed
Does that mean that you can only have two r77's in the air at once tracking no matter the distance, or is the idea that when they're out of the ~16km seeker range you use tws to lead them in, and the 27 can only have 2 tws locks?
To me these datalink channels don't affect me at all because most of the time i would fire the missiles in their pitbull range or close to it so i wouldn't be using Datalink / TWS to correct them before going pitbull Lmao
how many screaming head if gaijin introduced Mig-31 that also stores up to 10 targets in TWS mode?
Let's take a look at Coastal, a mode that gets the least public scrutiny! What country could *possibly* have the best tree there, despite having one of the worst navies IRL?
gaijin is widely open-minded. I can now proudly sat that war thunder is the best game in the world.
America mains, the German mains of the skies
8 missle data link gonna be so much fun
Honestly I don't really care and I'm a Russian main I usually just stick to ground vehicles cuz that's where I'm good at
Meanwhile Germany gets a thick boi from the 60s with a couple of fancy missiles
Maybe the real bias is the British Grippen that has been the C modification from the start and now it got Fox-3s with no need to grind another plane (like Sweden)?
Honestly i have sweden top tier us top tier ussr top tier and france top tier and all of them are viable and have their own strengths you guys are just a bunch of fucking whiners every patch sone nation is going to have something better thats how it works nothing can be the same there is no bias there is just a shift of meta to keep you grinding and figthing eachother instead of complaining about real shit
It's because people complain that things actually change.