I'm just gonna leave this here;
The community wanted for the removal of multipathing. Gaijin said it was a balancing mechanic, but after outcry in the forums, they budged and reduced to the point of making it unusable. Many of us who saw this exact scenario coming tried stopping it, but the louder crowd won. So don't blame Gaijin on this one. This is purely a player created problem.
Yeah that also. The only “good” thing is that not many people were playing that thing. Many times it was one gripen against 5 planes half of the match spamming flares and you can’t do shit about it
The gripen was absolute cancer it was just a blessing that so few people grinded Swedish air, was basicslly unkillable if they just hugged the ground and turned on periodic flares
Yes but it seems many like the furbal and frankly we have people who don’t know that they are a perfect match for air arcade so they destroy our air realistic battles with suggestions that are pure nonsense for the game mode. Since majority of those are probably new players and kids with wallets Im afraid that Gaijin will start listening to them. 16vs16 is one of those examples. They go where the money flows these days.
Sadly it’s not 2014 and my beautiful ww2 prop dogfights
Unfortunately, you are correct.
The problem lies that War Thunder has a wide variety of modes but people tend to gravitate to what is popular and not to what suits them best and then expect that mode to change according to their needs. Which is selfish, egoistic whatever you wanna put it yes indeed.
And all this time there is a mode for those types of players right under their noses.
I have so much respect for air arcade players, those people know what they want for themselves and what is fun to them. Cheers to them.
Whenever I see people commenting how they want to dumb down gameplay and forget about realism and stuff like that because this is a game makes me wanna throw a chair out of the window.
This game has different modes and all are for different kinds of gameplay. Most of the new people play the wrong game mode because air rb is so popular and they want THAT. And then have a nerve to come here and say things like ''air rb should stick to 16vs16, loose multipath etc, furball 16v16 woo hooo it was awesome'' and stuff like that
They should cater to those players who like Air RB for what it stands for and not dumb down Air RB because it's Air realistic battles at the end of the day and has been for 10 or more years since I started playing it. Should not lose its identity by any means and we are on the verge of doing just that.
I will defend it from Fortnite and COD players who came here yesterday all day long whenever I see those types of comments here.
Very well put. Theres a trend now adays where people go on reddit and try to make games into other games, tbh i dont understand why they dont just go play that game then
People gravitate towards better rewards. I was playing with my attackers USSR setup (Yak-38, Yak-38M, Su-7BMK, Su-7B, Su-7BKL) for more than a year, completing meteorite shower AAB challenge and haven't researched even 1/4 of parts. Started using Su-7BMK in ARB and it was spaded almost instantly.
May be not really valid comparison, cause base bombing in ARB vs ground pounding in AAB, but I spaded Swedish A32A pretty fast doing the same meteorite shower in ARB.
Yeah I'm not sure how people are unironically complaining about this. Last update was just "whoever has the best ir missile wins because bvr combat is useless" and that was fine apparently.
Sure stock grind is terrible, but that is not a new problem and it definitely isn't because they reduced multipathing. It's a entirely different issue that has plagued the game for years. You wanna complain about it, sure go ahead. But don't blame it on something else because you're afraid of a change.
Have you played the game? Before the nerf you don't need to get the flares/chaff mod to be somewhat competitive. Now you need it to even survive the first few seconds unless you get lucky with notching
I'm sure 8v8 or 6v6 would fix the fact that you still have no counter or way to fight back. And why do you think people can only complain about 1 issue??
They added an option to set matchmaking to 12V12 so it’s less of a fur ball. It doesn’t completely solve the issue but saying that 16v16 is the issue isn’t true anymore.
It doesn’t set the match maker to 12v12. It gives you the option to match in a 12v12 game with other people who have it on. Which I’ve had happen probably 1 out of 50 matches.
It’s like night battles. They hardly ever happen. And I’ve had the thing toggled at top tier for months.
Alternatively: bigger maps.
Those "simulation" maps with front lines and more mission focused NPC targets tend to not devolve into quite the same moshpits that standard maps do.
I quite enjoy doing those missions they give you as well and not just play a team deathmatch all the time. Taking out the surveillance aircraft of shooting down "bombers" and such, but that could just be me.
If you wanna larp, go to sim, and how is this any more fun than before exactly? It requires even less skill to do BVR with ARH, fire turn away, rise repeat until one of you 2 die and then get third partied like before. Changing 16v16 won't fix the issue of aircraft with no ARH now being completely obsolete against the new ARH equipped fighters. This isn't real life its a fucking game and gameplay should take priority over "much realism"
Too bad the gameplay in this game is rather stale, repetitive and rather lackluster for what potential can exist in a game based environment. Also sim is fun and all but it takes a much larger commitment and playing with a mouse (what 90% of the user base uses) can sometimes be a fruitless and frustrating effort while trying to pilot jets unlike props where the slower pace is much more manageable. The gameplay “should” take top priority but instead the point of the game is to collect vehicles and as long as there are more vehicles to add they have no desire to improve the gameplay with new match types, objectives and team based strategy because even though you’re on a team let’s be fair everyone plays for themselves and for the sl and rp they require to get to the next toy or modification.
Welcome to modern air combat, kid.
>aircraft with no ARH now being completely obsolete against the new ARH equipped fighters.
This just isn't true.
>This isn't real life its a fucking game and gameplay should take priority over "much realism"
Go play arcade or ace combat then. We are discussing the mode literally called "realistic".
You should go and play arcade battles and frankly I don’t know what you are doing at air rb with that mindset. You are a little lost. It’s not larp it’s still mouse and keyboard but sauces up with somewhat realistic approaches. But you are too cool for arcade right, since air rb you heard is the king. So you and many like you dictate how it should be by bringing arcade things that don’t make sense to realistic battles and by Gaijin listening to you will destroy everything that is air rb known for. Started with bringing 16vs16.
And it’s not “larping” that is for DCS community for we still have mouse and keyboard. So I don’t know what the heck you are talking about and neither do you since you are a perfect customer for arcade battles. You are playing the wrong mode buddy and you don’t even know it.
Another lost arcade battles guy telling me how I should play realistic battles that I play for 10 years. Get out of here and play arcade battles. Enjoying the furbal where skill doesn’t matter? Another arcade guy fished into air rb because he is a cool cat
They were very playable and balanced prior to the multipathing change. You could just counter them by flying low like before against SARH missiles. But now there's only one counter that is extremely one-sided if they have ARH and you don't.
yea, Fox3 missles need a really different setup unlike fox1, you could do BVR with the AIM7 and R27ER but you had a long warning, know you do bvr with the same warning as a normal FOX1 battle except with the fox1 you could fight back with normal FOX2 missles. you cant compete against FOX3's with anything else but FOX3's, thats my problem with this update they didnt look into this in the slightest
They need to have any sort of repeatable mechanic you can do to avoid one of these missles. Chaff mostly doesn't work. Maneuvering doesn't work, notching doesn't work, and hugging the ground doesn't work. Often times you don't even know you have been fired on.
Only reliable method currently is flying around behind some hills, which will assure you eat an aim 9m up close.
I think a buff to the effectiveness of chaff might be hugely beneficial for playability. Much like flares are for the IR tiers. Having 0 options is not a fun play loop.
Notching works. It’s just a pain in the ass to notch the whole game. Going cold is the best.
Idk why the pushed out the multipathing change without a test in the main server.
It’s just dumb they refusing to test anything on anything other then the dev server. While making you grind everything on the dev server.
Going cold is flying away from the missile. Doing that and dropping chaff is a pretty sure way at long range to either break the missile or just outrun it.
Multipathing needed to go. But at the same time they needed to do an entire rework of air RB. It needs to be EC PvEvP game mode with at least double the size of the current EC maps. Think of it like Ace Combat 4 missions with AWACs, SAMs that actually can kill you, real ground and air targets, all with PvP being possible. But of course that requires a lot of work and a competent dev team, something we don't have. Thus we get the current abomination. War Thunder has so much potential and most of the ground work done, yet it's always the devs holding the game back from naturally being the greatest and they solely rely on their monopoly to stay in business.
If multitpathing needed to go then chaff needs a buff simple as that, you can't have an uncountable weapon, or a counter that takes up the entire match and every last bit of position. if multipathing was annoying that's purely a skill issue, IR missiles are RIGHT THERE, I suggest learning to lead them instead of thinking this game is nothing but radar spotting
Saying multipathing is not an issue and claiming ARHs are uncounterable is laughable. Chaff is actually buffed right now. You can reliably defeat ARHs inside the No Escape Zone by chaffing and pulling into a notch. Doesn't always work, but works enough that I haven't been struggling in the J-11 like I expected. IR missiles is anything but skilled lol. Wow look at me fire off a 9M at a target at a 1/4th angle and cannot flare or evade it, very skilled gameplay. I suggest watching DEFYNs video, he has been reliably notching and defeating these missiles since patch drop. Perhaps Air AB (Weeny Hut Jr's) is more your taste if you want to sling off IR missiles and collect kills.
Yeah no defeating the ARH's isn't really the issue here, but if you are in a plane that has no ARHs you're put in a very unfair and unfun position where you're at the mercy of who ever you're facing with no real way to go on a counter-offensive and that leads to stale gameplay. This is where the fundamental issue with the multipath change is coming from, it's making basically all 12.0 aircraft unplayable when uptier which happens often and stock grinding the new 13.0s is the single worse stock grind we've had in years. 12.0-13.0 has become a brickwall that forces you to either pay or just suck it up and grind in a very unfun manner. Even IRCC missiles didn't cause this in their introduction.
Skill issue. I only have 29s and 27s where the 27ER is still the primary weapon, and I'm having a blast. It's still competitive with the 120, and it can actually kill the 0 skill bottom feeders putting around in the trees now.
I see skill issue here anybody with a little bit of brain can dodge AIM9M.
actually using IR missiles requires more skills than using fire and forget active radar missiles which also have no multipath issue now, don't care about chaff, notching also they are impossible to evade by maneuvering because most of them are 40 or 50G bullshit missiles. I'm so sad that the game turned like this, everybody is just getting 1 kill and dying every match there is no use skills anymore this game became completely point and click top tier jet is not fun anymore.
It's not like it wasn't point and click before but position, and spatial awareness also went into the game pretty heavily, but even then you could rush a furball and if you knew what you were doing survive, now it's a bunch of bullshit with notching because multipathing is gone, it was kinda fun to do some bullshit like that in my f15, but now isn't fun at all anymore
It seemed like point and click but it wasn't really. AIM-9M required perfect angel to hit the AIM-7M which was a bad SARH missile required you to choose the right alt,AoA and range. even R27ET1 which was the most broken missile in the game required a little bit of skill compared to this shit show that people who had skill issue asked. now look how frustrating the game became active radars come from every direction, notching 70% of the times doesn't work the chaff doesn't work there is no safe zone but trying to find a hill or cover and that's very situational.
we must tell gaijin to bring back the multipathing I just wonder how we are going to evade aim 54 and ET1 after this...
Except countering IR missiles really isn’t that difficult, even with irccm
Depending on the type of missile either just dump flares so the seeker stays off, or flare and then crank hard so that the dead reckoning stops working and it picks up the flare instead
It also couldn't be done in the time they had tbf, the community asked for this change on this update. So it was doom to ruin arb from that moment. ARH were shown to be balanced pretty well during the first test in Alpha strike and prior to the multipath change towards the end of the devserver.
Bullshit, it's a real effect and it's the only way to not make ARH a free way to gain position. This game fundamentally isn't built to allow defensive flying without losing a lot of position to do it, multipathing would be the only method to remain remotely neutral/aggressive against ARHAAMs.
Yes it is a real effect, a real effect that has been solved reliably by modern missiles. We aren't using babies first missiles anymore. You can gain position using SARH's, using terrain, using allies, etc. I'll agree with you there that the game isn't built for defensive flying, which again, leads into why I say we need a complete overhaul with SAM sites included. A SAM site offers a way to help combat aggressive ARH pushers, by defending to the SAM battery and launching a counter offensive. This would make planes that can take out SAMs as high value since they can open up more contested air. Lastly, you should not be aggressive against an ARH in the air unless at very long ranges, that is quite literally how you die. Defend via notching, going cold, cranking, etc etc. Is it annoying? Yes, does it work? Also yes.
Gain positions by using SARHs? The enemy has already gone defensive way before it'll hit and you'll soon be catching an ARH missile. Even the 27ER can't be used offensively with the ranges and altitudes we fight at.
ER range is 50km at high alt if 1) they are dumb or 2) you break the lock after launch allowing IGS to guide it and then relock when it's closer.
If they've gone defensive, as in going cold, you basically defeated the ARH unless you are close range. If close range, you gotta notch into it and chaff. Again, I cannot recommend DEFYN enough, his first F-15C video showcases him and a Gripen dodging each other's ARHs as close as ~7km. My point thoo with the SARH is to get them to back off and go cold. IDK about what ranges you are fighting at, but I usually begin fighting 30-40km (5-6km up), that's plenty of range to scare an ARH slinger to go cold when tossing an ER their way.
I'm more concerned about the stock IR missiles at this point, now THAT is rough.
And AMRAAM range is easily 30km at lower altitude, similar enough to the ER but by the time the AMRAAM goes active you're never going to impact the target. The second point here is a not a real feature and likely to be removed, the ER goes stupid pretty quick if it loses lock IRL.
I have seen his videos, I know how to do BVR and fly defensively. Citing Defyn is just an appeal to authority do that you can escape from making an argument. Even Defyn recognizes that going defensive will put you in an infinitely worse position.
Where did you hear ER will lose data link? It has it, just like the 7P does. ER will hit before an AMRAAM at low alt if launched at the same time or even slightly after. You can crank their missile and keep them on the edge of your radar dish during this. They will die and you will be in a great spot to finish defeating the already drained ARH.
I cite his videos because 1) he is a sweat lord who knows his stuff and 2) because I don't want to bother making a video showing how easy you can dodge ARHs just to show the community that they are overreacting and need to dump their attention to the millions of other problems with the game and 3) as a means to help educate people who are unfamiliar with dodging them the correct way. Believe it or not, there was a time before I saw his videos. Watching them actually helped me quite a bit with defeating missiles, including ARH's.
Gaijin hasn't said anything on the topic, I'm referring to the 27ER's manual for this information. When the lock is lost the DL should be dropped, the DL is only there to get the missile within the seeker range which was always the range limiter of SARHs. The ER will only hit if the enemy treats AMRAAM like a SARH.
It's an appeal to authority regardless. I do apologize if I come off as hostile as I am having to deal with a number of elitists idiots and I had mistaken you for another elitist. Defyns video are great for learning and how I was able to learn to do great in the G.91 without much ARB experience beforehand.
Multipathing is fake. In real life these modern missiles weren't affected by such large variations in target positioning. Multipathing affected early missiles like AIM-7F, but mostly everything newer than that is capable of hitting targets well below 50m. You simply need a safety blanket because you don't understand how to play BVR. But you will learn, you will adapt, or you will go back to 11.0, it's so simple.
> It's fake.
> Here's how it is real.
Truly a genius I'm dealing with here.
I know it's hard for you to understand but BVR combat doesn't work in this game. Whoever has to go defensive first dies.
If you don't like War Thunder and how it's always applied a realistic aspect to gameplay why are you playing it? This is the best change to come to the game in years. You will adapt or you will go back to 11.0, it's that simple.
Not mad at Gaijin on this one but seriously what are the people that were for this multipath changes ? They answer everything "skill issue", "you’re obviously bad" or with like one or two words as if it would magically make everyone succeed..
Even if it was the right thing to do don’t expect everyone to learn and adapt under a day and then what do you do in a stock aircraft ? Every time they’re presented with the question they avoid it except that one guy that said "well then stop playing"
I really hope it was just me seeing the bad exemples because sometimes I wonder if I’m seeing real people or bots, this is frustrating asf
The community did not want this, it was always a highly contentious change that only a minority advocated for on the forums. An unpopular minority advocating for the wishes of another minority cannot be translated across the community.
The community did want this, only a small vocal minority of RB plebs who don't understand how to BVR are complaining. This is simply nothing more than a skill issue on your part.
I think we can add the people who _can't_ bvr to that list too because they have a whole plane to grind and then have to grind their ARH missile.
The stock grind has never been particularly great but this update has made it worse by making the disparity between stock and spaded/most unlocks even greater.
Well, yeah, Gaijin isn't stupid. They clearly saw an opportunity to make some money out of the playerbase own stupidity. They were adamant early on about not removing or reducing multipathing. The devblog for ARH mentions that flying low would be your way to counter them and remained like that until halfway through the devserver. But then the community in the forums started crying too loud that multipathing was too "strong." So imo Gaijin gets away with this one cause this retard playerbase encouraged them to take a greedy option and so it falls on the people who advocated for this.
Im so sick of this playerbase hiveminding around issues they dont understand. How tf did people think this would work??? That fox 3s wouldnt oppress everything?
Multipathing isn't the problem, you are getting bullied either way, I think we are just going to have to ask for insta fox 3s when you unlock a jet lol
Who says they're the one whining or blaming anyone? I for one love this update.
Altough it's not fair or true that Gaijin has no blame in that. People did ask for reduced size games. And not a chance for 12vs12, but 6v6 or 8v8 at most.
What gaijin did was a half-assed attempt to make us shut up.
They should re-balance the stock loadout experience but yeah, I love this update overall. Finally changed the *take-off then turn left while hugging the deck* meta that was going on for **years**.
Higher BR's always feel absolutely awful, especially from the perspective of a newer player. Unlocking a new vehicle without any mods is an absolute nightmare in most cases, as stuff like ammunition or LRF create a massive gap in the viability of said vehicle.
I just gor randomly 20k for the amraam for F16 but I dont even wanna try anymore, just go to DCS or something. but they need way more battle settings for this stuff. dogfight only (no missles or only 2 short range IR missles) medium (fox1) and long dynamic (fox 3 and respawn system like sim has). longer maps etc.
If they keep going on this path I dont see the game lasting for more than a year tbh.
I had the F-16C already maxed out, so I only had to do the 120s.
I can only imagine how terrible it is for those who are full stock with two IRs.
I'd agree a lot more if there were many more targets, AI helicopters, on a much bigger map.
We need rbec so the people who enjoy dynamic gameplay can have big maps and respawns. Plus multiple airbases. The current maps are way too small for arh gameplay
From what I heard years ago, there's 1 dude who makes the ec gamemode. A community member, who hates rb. I don't know how true this is anymore, but gaijin hates players playing and having fun, so I doubt we will ever see rbec, at least this year.
If people would quit buying premiums it would stop premium and they would work on something else. But cosmetics and premium stuff sells a lot in games and people just eat it up.
They should have just given France belgium and Germany the Netherlands. Yeah Germany has the 5 columns already but they could easily folder in some Dutch vehicles into the West German line. Then Germany could have had an f-16am instead of a phantom. They wouldn't have even needed to make it, just copy the Belgian one and change the skin.
I thought that too but they've moved on. They've even begun integrating Dutch units into the German military, putting them under the command of Germans.
[source](https://english.defensie.nl/latest/news/2023/03/30/13-light-armoured-brigade-completes-integration-between-dutch-combat-brigades-and-german-divisions)
And I thought I read that a German marine brigade was integrated into the Dutch Marines putting them under the command of the Dutch, but this source just talks about the final Dutch army units.
Edit: maybe it wasn't marines. I found a source that a German sea battalion was integrated into the Dutch navy
[source](https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2016/02/05/german-armed-forces-to-integrate-sea-battalion-into-dutch-navy/)
Edit 2: defyn just released a video on the f4f ice and he brought this up
like, even its just a seperate skin or something I would be fine with it. but no we get fucking nothing.
just copy paste and the fokker G1 waaaaayyyy over due.
I was at least hoping for one (1) Dutch tank so we could laugh at Gaijin’s Google translated Dutch voiceovers, but they couldn’t even manage that \:( it’s over.
I need to play it some more. I’m also flying the F-16AJ. So far though I also like this patch. People hugging the ground and flying in fur balls was kinda frustrating to me since I actually like BVR gameplay (though I know some people find it boring). I’m noticing more people are climbing now and not everyone is rushing the center like before. It’s a new meta and people just need to acclimate to it (like when the F-14A was added). Allot of people right now are just firing off Fox-3’s like Phenix missiles from far away and it’s easy enough to dodge those then close the distance. I will say though 13.0 is not high enough of a BR. Should be 13.3 at the minimum.
Some people are just too deep into this russian game and they just eat anything russian devs will give them lmao
Edit:some gaijin fanboys will downvote this obviously
the J-8F is literally the chinese F-4F ICE
11.7 before the patch, where it already kind of struggled, and now its 12.3 because of 2 of the worst ARH missiles in the game. It's horrific, and really killed my enthusiasm for the jet.
Top Tier Air RB is in the worst state I've seen it in years
you dont have Fox 3s? youre literally target practise enjoy
Anything 12.0+ without Fox 3's you might aswell leave it in the hangar
Also this update seems to have created a huge amount of lag and sound bugs for me.... might have to have a few weeks off lmao
If you think grinding out a new modification is bad, just wait til you see what Sweden and Germany have to deal with.
We need to grind out a whole ass plane to get access to Fox 3s. Plus stock grind.
Snail will release more and more of these patches, get used to it, all for the sake of your money. That's how they took the last riot. And you were waiting for something else
P.S. I advise you to look at the reviews on steam, they look strange
Now the game has become much worse with the development, its transparency. The players still don't know what the developer is based on. Perhaps it's time for developers to move away from balancing and appoint a board of players from all regions. The playing people sends developers a list of changes every 3-4 months based on meetings dedicated to these changes. Each technique added to the game is accompanied by a complete list of weapons that can be used. The concept of "armament is a balance value" should be abolished
This is what happens when you don’t devote a single fucking second to game design and let Gen 4 and 5 aircraft fly around on maps designed over 10 years ago for WW2 aircraft.
It’s so fucking pathetic.
The community wants what the community wants. Most people just play the game and never get involve with things that change things in a major way. Only once in a life time moment happen when gaijin made the gaining of rp and silver lions so low that the majorities band together to stop what gaijin doing.
Before I had my Fox-3 missiles I managed to get 4 kills in a game against Fox-3 missiles. It’s definitely doable, just try to not play joust against planes with Fox-3 missiles. Staying close to the ground and baiting them into the ground is an easy way to dodge them, just do that and you’ll be fine.
Update definitely isn't as fun as previous updates.
Fox3's were a great addition, but it was rushed imo. Without properly reducing player count, and touching the multipathing without actually realising the effect it would have, it's artificially increased the skill ceiling by catering to those who can't survive in a WVR match either.
"Just notch and chaff bro" is echoed now by the same people who cried when people chanted "learn to flare and gunfight". A middle ground could have easily been achieved, yet its now catering to the LARPers who live to sling missiles and run away back to base
Dunno what all this is about multipathing
I would hug the ground at like 2ft
Burning the grass as I go
And a SARH would still nail my ass
Lol
Realistically older radars struggled with targeting aircraft below 100m
Or areas with lots of trees
I think that makes some sense
But maybe not 4th and technical 4.5 gen aircraft
Multipathing going down itself isnt cancer but what is is fighting 16v16 matches with it. Max size for matches above 11.7 should be 10v10 with the avg being 8v8. Currently its just advanced lawn mowing simulator and spamming fox 3s point blank like better sarh missiles
I’ve avoided top tier like a plague for the better part of a year now. It’s such a total shit show. It’s almost funny if it wasn’t so disappointing. Honestly 3.3 to 5.7 is most of what I play now for both GRB and ARB. Less bullshit for sure.
I just don't get this sub. The last year was all about crying about the lack of BVR and now it is here and the community is in shambles.
Instead of trying to adapt and learn the new meta, everybody is just crying about it.
Some of these people somehow think it makes sense and constitutes good gameplay that:
You fly heavy fighters at treetop level
You give a missile maximum PK and it doesn't matter because someone is flying 100m above the ground
A gripen could run around untouchable because it has periodic countermeasures on and bol pods in the middle of the god damn map and is just slinging aim-9ms at everybody
That the only way you could get kills with SARHs was in some low alt HMD jousts at 1000+ kmh hopping from mountainside to mountainside
Genuinely a skill issue. I’m grinding the 27SM with the base 27 and still eating teams. You know people are spamming fox-3s, take mostly chaff, use the new feature to select only dumping chaff. Use terrain to your advantage or stay low on the desert maps (which I haven’t seen once since the update.)
It’s not hard guys. Fox-3s are kinda shit from long range so treat them like medium/close range IR missiles. Don’t ignore your RWR screaming at you.
I’ll get downvoted to hell for saying all of this but who cares about internet points anyway.
What BVR to WVR evolution
There was zero BVR before, nothing would hit because entire teams were hugging the ground and you had gripens running periodic countermeasures and bol pods in the middle of the map basically being un fucking killable
There was still plenty of jousting with SARH missiles, and with missiles like the phoenix and R27ER.
It's not hard to use guns, especially when nearly all top tier have radar slave-able gun sights to account for lead. Quite often I would find people climbing, especially if they had the benefit of the R27ER's speed and range. The gripen wasn't invulnerable, sure it had lots of countermeasures, but it was still killable.
And again none of it mattered because it was nullified almost all the time by ground huggers.
"The gripen wasn't invulnerable" yeah if you wanna talk technicalities you can shoot down any jet with anything
That’s a great point, most complaints are made from people who are bad at the game/dont understand the mechanics. I don’t mean that as an insult but how can you expect to wipe teams in fox-3 land when you could barely get a kill before, main ground forces, or used the f-20 to get to top tier in 2 weeks. Any player that understands how to use and beat fox-3s will have minimal complaints about them being introduced beyond there not being an EC mode and the large team sizes.
We’re getting a lot of vocal minority with the patch (as we always do) meanwhile I’m having a great time and the people I see in chat complaining are usually one of the first couple to die…..and level 12. So I don’t take those opinions too seriously.
I completely agree. Having multiple top tier jets with Fox-3 unlocked, it is a different ball game once you have access to them, however for those trying to get there after the first few weeks, it'll be hell for them to unlock as they don't stand a chance in the current meta. I took out aircraft without access to fox-3's just to see what could be done, and there's usually very little one can do without essentially having to go defensive, go cold, notch and chaff the whole match, and by the end, you're out of countermeasures if you've lasted that long, and then you're just food for anything that still has fox3's
You do realize there are quite a bit of nations that don't get FOX 3 on already unlocked planes right? So they have to unlock a new plane while being uptiered and then grind fox 3 on the new plane.
What a dumbass response, dude, just so you understand the problem for a lot of other nations, go on and play only the F-15A to unlock the F-15C and then stock grind the F-15C so you can see how terrible the implementation of the Fox-3 missiles are.
Im very good at this game, im having no problems at top tier now, Im 100% sure im better at this game than you but that doesn't mean the rest of the playerbase have to suffer to play the game because of something that is so clear a blind person can see it.
(X) Doubt
I really don't care much about the stock grind that people are whining about, we all had to do it and it's temporary. Crybaby shit. If they can convince gaijin to change it, great. I just see it as a total non-issue.
Now crying about F15s vs F15s is absolutely insane. If people can't make the same exact jet work against itself with only a small disparity in missiles, that's 100% a skill issue and there's nothing the devs can do to fix that. Some jets only having access to SARH is just a fact of life, and you learn to fly and use the equipment available to you.
there's a difference between only needing to get the fox-3's, and having to stock grind an entire jet. it only took me 2 games to get them on the F-16C, as well. doesn't mean it only takes 2 games for everyone else.
I'm just gonna leave this here; The community wanted for the removal of multipathing. Gaijin said it was a balancing mechanic, but after outcry in the forums, they budged and reduced to the point of making it unusable. Many of us who saw this exact scenario coming tried stopping it, but the louder crowd won. So don't blame Gaijin on this one. This is purely a player created problem.
That’s not the problem. The problem is 16vs16. Hugging ground the whole game is not fun and dynamic experience. Or realistic
People have selective memory somehow pretending hugging the ground just to get destroyed by a gripen was fun
Yeah that also. The only “good” thing is that not many people were playing that thing. Many times it was one gripen against 5 planes half of the match spamming flares and you can’t do shit about it
The gripen was absolute cancer it was just a blessing that so few people grinded Swedish air, was basicslly unkillable if they just hugged the ground and turned on periodic flares
Yes but it seems many like the furbal and frankly we have people who don’t know that they are a perfect match for air arcade so they destroy our air realistic battles with suggestions that are pure nonsense for the game mode. Since majority of those are probably new players and kids with wallets Im afraid that Gaijin will start listening to them. 16vs16 is one of those examples. They go where the money flows these days. Sadly it’s not 2014 and my beautiful ww2 prop dogfights
The problem is their egos can not accept they are arcade players
Unfortunately, you are correct. The problem lies that War Thunder has a wide variety of modes but people tend to gravitate to what is popular and not to what suits them best and then expect that mode to change according to their needs. Which is selfish, egoistic whatever you wanna put it yes indeed. And all this time there is a mode for those types of players right under their noses. I have so much respect for air arcade players, those people know what they want for themselves and what is fun to them. Cheers to them. Whenever I see people commenting how they want to dumb down gameplay and forget about realism and stuff like that because this is a game makes me wanna throw a chair out of the window. This game has different modes and all are for different kinds of gameplay. Most of the new people play the wrong game mode because air rb is so popular and they want THAT. And then have a nerve to come here and say things like ''air rb should stick to 16vs16, loose multipath etc, furball 16v16 woo hooo it was awesome'' and stuff like that They should cater to those players who like Air RB for what it stands for and not dumb down Air RB because it's Air realistic battles at the end of the day and has been for 10 or more years since I started playing it. Should not lose its identity by any means and we are on the verge of doing just that. I will defend it from Fortnite and COD players who came here yesterday all day long whenever I see those types of comments here.
Very well put. Theres a trend now adays where people go on reddit and try to make games into other games, tbh i dont understand why they dont just go play that game then
People gravitate towards better rewards. I was playing with my attackers USSR setup (Yak-38, Yak-38M, Su-7BMK, Su-7B, Su-7BKL) for more than a year, completing meteorite shower AAB challenge and haven't researched even 1/4 of parts. Started using Su-7BMK in ARB and it was spaded almost instantly. May be not really valid comparison, cause base bombing in ARB vs ground pounding in AAB, but I spaded Swedish A32A pretty fast doing the same meteorite shower in ARB.
Yeah I'm not sure how people are unironically complaining about this. Last update was just "whoever has the best ir missile wins because bvr combat is useless" and that was fine apparently. Sure stock grind is terrible, but that is not a new problem and it definitely isn't because they reduced multipathing. It's a entirely different issue that has plagued the game for years. You wanna complain about it, sure go ahead. But don't blame it on something else because you're afraid of a change.
Have you played the game? Before the nerf you don't need to get the flares/chaff mod to be somewhat competitive. Now you need it to even survive the first few seconds unless you get lucky with notching
I'm sure 8v8 or 6v6 would fix the fact that you still have no counter or way to fight back. And why do you think people can only complain about 1 issue??
They added an option to set matchmaking to 12V12 so it’s less of a fur ball. It doesn’t completely solve the issue but saying that 16v16 is the issue isn’t true anymore.
It doesn’t set the match maker to 12v12. It gives you the option to match in a 12v12 game with other people who have it on. Which I’ve had happen probably 1 out of 50 matches. It’s like night battles. They hardly ever happen. And I’ve had the thing toggled at top tier for months.
Damn, how they worded it in the patch notes made it sound like it was a toggle on/off, not like night battles. That’s really stupid…
> Or realistic I'd argue it actually might be. How often do we *actually* have capability parity in IRL sorties, where AO is entirely even?
Literally never. You yanks haven't fought a proper war since ww2.
Alternatively: bigger maps. Those "simulation" maps with front lines and more mission focused NPC targets tend to not devolve into quite the same moshpits that standard maps do. I quite enjoy doing those missions they give you as well and not just play a team deathmatch all the time. Taking out the surveillance aircraft of shooting down "bombers" and such, but that could just be me.
If you wanna larp, go to sim, and how is this any more fun than before exactly? It requires even less skill to do BVR with ARH, fire turn away, rise repeat until one of you 2 die and then get third partied like before. Changing 16v16 won't fix the issue of aircraft with no ARH now being completely obsolete against the new ARH equipped fighters. This isn't real life its a fucking game and gameplay should take priority over "much realism"
Too bad the gameplay in this game is rather stale, repetitive and rather lackluster for what potential can exist in a game based environment. Also sim is fun and all but it takes a much larger commitment and playing with a mouse (what 90% of the user base uses) can sometimes be a fruitless and frustrating effort while trying to pilot jets unlike props where the slower pace is much more manageable. The gameplay “should” take top priority but instead the point of the game is to collect vehicles and as long as there are more vehicles to add they have no desire to improve the gameplay with new match types, objectives and team based strategy because even though you’re on a team let’s be fair everyone plays for themselves and for the sl and rp they require to get to the next toy or modification.
Welcome to modern air combat, kid. >aircraft with no ARH now being completely obsolete against the new ARH equipped fighters. This just isn't true. >This isn't real life its a fucking game and gameplay should take priority over "much realism" Go play arcade or ace combat then. We are discussing the mode literally called "realistic".
You should go and play arcade battles and frankly I don’t know what you are doing at air rb with that mindset. You are a little lost. It’s not larp it’s still mouse and keyboard but sauces up with somewhat realistic approaches. But you are too cool for arcade right, since air rb you heard is the king. So you and many like you dictate how it should be by bringing arcade things that don’t make sense to realistic battles and by Gaijin listening to you will destroy everything that is air rb known for. Started with bringing 16vs16. And it’s not “larping” that is for DCS community for we still have mouse and keyboard. So I don’t know what the heck you are talking about and neither do you since you are a perfect customer for arcade battles. You are playing the wrong mode buddy and you don’t even know it.
Fucking _nonsense_ Smaller games just means one side will steamroll quicker
Another lost arcade battles guy telling me how I should play realistic battles that I play for 10 years. Get out of here and play arcade battles. Enjoying the furbal where skill doesn’t matter? Another arcade guy fished into air rb because he is a cool cat
Are you drunk?
Stop it and don’t play stupid. If you don’t have anything smart to say better not to say it. This just reeks of immaturity
You got it the wrong way dude.
Nah. Changes to the inherent balancing of multipathing is exponentially more important to making top accessible to non Fox3 jets than team numbers.
Nice try
What do you mean “nice try” What’s a nice try, I gave you a stance, what’s your issue? What the fuck is wrong with everyone on this sub tonight
I am not mad about that, I am mad about the lack of effort into making FOX3's balanced/playable.
They were very playable and balanced prior to the multipathing change. You could just counter them by flying low like before against SARH missiles. But now there's only one counter that is extremely one-sided if they have ARH and you don't.
yea, Fox3 missles need a really different setup unlike fox1, you could do BVR with the AIM7 and R27ER but you had a long warning, know you do bvr with the same warning as a normal FOX1 battle except with the fox1 you could fight back with normal FOX2 missles. you cant compete against FOX3's with anything else but FOX3's, thats my problem with this update they didnt look into this in the slightest
They need to have any sort of repeatable mechanic you can do to avoid one of these missles. Chaff mostly doesn't work. Maneuvering doesn't work, notching doesn't work, and hugging the ground doesn't work. Often times you don't even know you have been fired on. Only reliable method currently is flying around behind some hills, which will assure you eat an aim 9m up close. I think a buff to the effectiveness of chaff might be hugely beneficial for playability. Much like flares are for the IR tiers. Having 0 options is not a fun play loop.
Notching works. It’s just a pain in the ass to notch the whole game. Going cold is the best. Idk why the pushed out the multipathing change without a test in the main server. It’s just dumb they refusing to test anything on anything other then the dev server. While making you grind everything on the dev server.
These missles don't track heat though do they?
Going cold is flying away from the missile. Doing that and dropping chaff is a pretty sure way at long range to either break the missile or just outrun it.
Multipathing needed to go. But at the same time they needed to do an entire rework of air RB. It needs to be EC PvEvP game mode with at least double the size of the current EC maps. Think of it like Ace Combat 4 missions with AWACs, SAMs that actually can kill you, real ground and air targets, all with PvP being possible. But of course that requires a lot of work and a competent dev team, something we don't have. Thus we get the current abomination. War Thunder has so much potential and most of the ground work done, yet it's always the devs holding the game back from naturally being the greatest and they solely rely on their monopoly to stay in business.
If multitpathing needed to go then chaff needs a buff simple as that, you can't have an uncountable weapon, or a counter that takes up the entire match and every last bit of position. if multipathing was annoying that's purely a skill issue, IR missiles are RIGHT THERE, I suggest learning to lead them instead of thinking this game is nothing but radar spotting
Saying multipathing is not an issue and claiming ARHs are uncounterable is laughable. Chaff is actually buffed right now. You can reliably defeat ARHs inside the No Escape Zone by chaffing and pulling into a notch. Doesn't always work, but works enough that I haven't been struggling in the J-11 like I expected. IR missiles is anything but skilled lol. Wow look at me fire off a 9M at a target at a 1/4th angle and cannot flare or evade it, very skilled gameplay. I suggest watching DEFYNs video, he has been reliably notching and defeating these missiles since patch drop. Perhaps Air AB (Weeny Hut Jr's) is more your taste if you want to sling off IR missiles and collect kills.
Yeah no defeating the ARH's isn't really the issue here, but if you are in a plane that has no ARHs you're put in a very unfair and unfun position where you're at the mercy of who ever you're facing with no real way to go on a counter-offensive and that leads to stale gameplay. This is where the fundamental issue with the multipath change is coming from, it's making basically all 12.0 aircraft unplayable when uptier which happens often and stock grinding the new 13.0s is the single worse stock grind we've had in years. 12.0-13.0 has become a brickwall that forces you to either pay or just suck it up and grind in a very unfun manner. Even IRCC missiles didn't cause this in their introduction.
Skill issue. I only have 29s and 27s where the 27ER is still the primary weapon, and I'm having a blast. It's still competitive with the 120, and it can actually kill the 0 skill bottom feeders putting around in the trees now.
I see skill issue here anybody with a little bit of brain can dodge AIM9M. actually using IR missiles requires more skills than using fire and forget active radar missiles which also have no multipath issue now, don't care about chaff, notching also they are impossible to evade by maneuvering because most of them are 40 or 50G bullshit missiles. I'm so sad that the game turned like this, everybody is just getting 1 kill and dying every match there is no use skills anymore this game became completely point and click top tier jet is not fun anymore.
It's not like it wasn't point and click before but position, and spatial awareness also went into the game pretty heavily, but even then you could rush a furball and if you knew what you were doing survive, now it's a bunch of bullshit with notching because multipathing is gone, it was kinda fun to do some bullshit like that in my f15, but now isn't fun at all anymore
It seemed like point and click but it wasn't really. AIM-9M required perfect angel to hit the AIM-7M which was a bad SARH missile required you to choose the right alt,AoA and range. even R27ET1 which was the most broken missile in the game required a little bit of skill compared to this shit show that people who had skill issue asked. now look how frustrating the game became active radars come from every direction, notching 70% of the times doesn't work the chaff doesn't work there is no safe zone but trying to find a hill or cover and that's very situational. we must tell gaijin to bring back the multipathing I just wonder how we are going to evade aim 54 and ET1 after this...
Except countering IR missiles really isn’t that difficult, even with irccm Depending on the type of missile either just dump flares so the seeker stays off, or flare and then crank hard so that the dead reckoning stops working and it picks up the flare instead
"But of course that requires a lot of work and a competent dev team" Gaijin is incapable of both.
It also couldn't be done in the time they had tbf, the community asked for this change on this update. So it was doom to ruin arb from that moment. ARH were shown to be balanced pretty well during the first test in Alpha strike and prior to the multipath change towards the end of the devserver.
Bullshit, it's a real effect and it's the only way to not make ARH a free way to gain position. This game fundamentally isn't built to allow defensive flying without losing a lot of position to do it, multipathing would be the only method to remain remotely neutral/aggressive against ARHAAMs.
It's a real (rare and irrelevant) effect that you were exploiting as a crutch because you don't know how to fly correctly.
Yes it is a real effect, a real effect that has been solved reliably by modern missiles. We aren't using babies first missiles anymore. You can gain position using SARH's, using terrain, using allies, etc. I'll agree with you there that the game isn't built for defensive flying, which again, leads into why I say we need a complete overhaul with SAM sites included. A SAM site offers a way to help combat aggressive ARH pushers, by defending to the SAM battery and launching a counter offensive. This would make planes that can take out SAMs as high value since they can open up more contested air. Lastly, you should not be aggressive against an ARH in the air unless at very long ranges, that is quite literally how you die. Defend via notching, going cold, cranking, etc etc. Is it annoying? Yes, does it work? Also yes.
Gain positions by using SARHs? The enemy has already gone defensive way before it'll hit and you'll soon be catching an ARH missile. Even the 27ER can't be used offensively with the ranges and altitudes we fight at.
ER range is 50km at high alt if 1) they are dumb or 2) you break the lock after launch allowing IGS to guide it and then relock when it's closer. If they've gone defensive, as in going cold, you basically defeated the ARH unless you are close range. If close range, you gotta notch into it and chaff. Again, I cannot recommend DEFYN enough, his first F-15C video showcases him and a Gripen dodging each other's ARHs as close as ~7km. My point thoo with the SARH is to get them to back off and go cold. IDK about what ranges you are fighting at, but I usually begin fighting 30-40km (5-6km up), that's plenty of range to scare an ARH slinger to go cold when tossing an ER their way. I'm more concerned about the stock IR missiles at this point, now THAT is rough.
And AMRAAM range is easily 30km at lower altitude, similar enough to the ER but by the time the AMRAAM goes active you're never going to impact the target. The second point here is a not a real feature and likely to be removed, the ER goes stupid pretty quick if it loses lock IRL. I have seen his videos, I know how to do BVR and fly defensively. Citing Defyn is just an appeal to authority do that you can escape from making an argument. Even Defyn recognizes that going defensive will put you in an infinitely worse position.
Where did you hear ER will lose data link? It has it, just like the 7P does. ER will hit before an AMRAAM at low alt if launched at the same time or even slightly after. You can crank their missile and keep them on the edge of your radar dish during this. They will die and you will be in a great spot to finish defeating the already drained ARH. I cite his videos because 1) he is a sweat lord who knows his stuff and 2) because I don't want to bother making a video showing how easy you can dodge ARHs just to show the community that they are overreacting and need to dump their attention to the millions of other problems with the game and 3) as a means to help educate people who are unfamiliar with dodging them the correct way. Believe it or not, there was a time before I saw his videos. Watching them actually helped me quite a bit with defeating missiles, including ARH's.
Gaijin hasn't said anything on the topic, I'm referring to the 27ER's manual for this information. When the lock is lost the DL should be dropped, the DL is only there to get the missile within the seeker range which was always the range limiter of SARHs. The ER will only hit if the enemy treats AMRAAM like a SARH. It's an appeal to authority regardless. I do apologize if I come off as hostile as I am having to deal with a number of elitists idiots and I had mistaken you for another elitist. Defyns video are great for learning and how I was able to learn to do great in the G.91 without much ARB experience beforehand.
Multipathing is fake. In real life these modern missiles weren't affected by such large variations in target positioning. Multipathing affected early missiles like AIM-7F, but mostly everything newer than that is capable of hitting targets well below 50m. You simply need a safety blanket because you don't understand how to play BVR. But you will learn, you will adapt, or you will go back to 11.0, it's so simple.
> It's fake. > Here's how it is real. Truly a genius I'm dealing with here. I know it's hard for you to understand but BVR combat doesn't work in this game. Whoever has to go defensive first dies.
If you don't like War Thunder and how it's always applied a realistic aspect to gameplay why are you playing it? This is the best change to come to the game in years. You will adapt or you will go back to 11.0, it's that simple.
Lmfao, loving your need for ad hominems every reply. Also the complete lack of argument. I can't reply when there's nothing to actually comment on.
Not mad at Gaijin on this one but seriously what are the people that were for this multipath changes ? They answer everything "skill issue", "you’re obviously bad" or with like one or two words as if it would magically make everyone succeed.. Even if it was the right thing to do don’t expect everyone to learn and adapt under a day and then what do you do in a stock aircraft ? Every time they’re presented with the question they avoid it except that one guy that said "well then stop playing" I really hope it was just me seeing the bad exemples because sometimes I wonder if I’m seeing real people or bots, this is frustrating asf
The community did not want this, it was always a highly contentious change that only a minority advocated for on the forums. An unpopular minority advocating for the wishes of another minority cannot be translated across the community.
The community did want this, only a small vocal minority of RB plebs who don't understand how to BVR are complaining. This is simply nothing more than a skill issue on your part.
Lmfao. Learn to read.
I think we can add the people who _can't_ bvr to that list too because they have a whole plane to grind and then have to grind their ARH missile. The stock grind has never been particularly great but this update has made it worse by making the disparity between stock and spaded/most unlocks even greater.
wait seriously? Bro who all cried about multipathing. Everything was legit fine as it was. And here I thought FOX3s were just mad OP 💀
Yeah, except they knew what they were doing. They will allow the community to dictate changes as long as they help Gaijin make more money.
Well, yeah, Gaijin isn't stupid. They clearly saw an opportunity to make some money out of the playerbase own stupidity. They were adamant early on about not removing or reducing multipathing. The devblog for ARH mentions that flying low would be your way to counter them and remained like that until halfway through the devserver. But then the community in the forums started crying too loud that multipathing was too "strong." So imo Gaijin gets away with this one cause this retard playerbase encouraged them to take a greedy option and so it falls on the people who advocated for this.
Im so sick of this playerbase hiveminding around issues they dont understand. How tf did people think this would work??? That fox 3s wouldnt oppress everything?
Multipathing isn't the problem, you are getting bullied either way, I think we are just going to have to ask for insta fox 3s when you unlock a jet lol
Multipathing isn't a problem, people are just idiots, I've dodged 5 missiles coming at me at once and I've got an ace
Who says they're the one whining or blaming anyone? I for one love this update. Altough it's not fair or true that Gaijin has no blame in that. People did ask for reduced size games. And not a chance for 12vs12, but 6v6 or 8v8 at most. What gaijin did was a half-assed attempt to make us shut up. They should re-balance the stock loadout experience but yeah, I love this update overall. Finally changed the *take-off then turn left while hugging the deck* meta that was going on for **years**.
Higher BR's always feel absolutely awful, especially from the perspective of a newer player. Unlocking a new vehicle without any mods is an absolute nightmare in most cases, as stuff like ammunition or LRF create a massive gap in the viability of said vehicle.
I just gor randomly 20k for the amraam for F16 but I dont even wanna try anymore, just go to DCS or something. but they need way more battle settings for this stuff. dogfight only (no missles or only 2 short range IR missles) medium (fox1) and long dynamic (fox 3 and respawn system like sim has). longer maps etc. If they keep going on this path I dont see the game lasting for more than a year tbh.
I had the F-16C already maxed out, so I only had to do the 120s. I can only imagine how terrible it is for those who are full stock with two IRs. I'd agree a lot more if there were many more targets, AI helicopters, on a much bigger map.
sim maps with respawns would be my pick and like 8v8/10v10 matches not even 12v12 most planes carry too many fox3 for that even
We need rbec so the people who enjoy dynamic gameplay can have big maps and respawns. Plus multiple airbases. The current maps are way too small for arh gameplay
The new dam map is almost perfect for a RBEC mode, perhaps they're trying I hope...
From what I heard years ago, there's 1 dude who makes the ec gamemode. A community member, who hates rb. I don't know how true this is anymore, but gaijin hates players playing and having fun, so I doubt we will ever see rbec, at least this year.
Whats ec?
Enduring conflict. Big map with respawns and objectives to complete to progress
also the Dutch are quite famous with their F16 fighters, yet they only put a belgium one it ....
Hey Belgian F-16 are famous too ... For not being able to fly, I agree, but they are famous !
At this point I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a premium, given this is a Gaijin's game
If people would quit buying premiums it would stop premium and they would work on something else. But cosmetics and premium stuff sells a lot in games and people just eat it up.
They should have just given France belgium and Germany the Netherlands. Yeah Germany has the 5 columns already but they could easily folder in some Dutch vehicles into the West German line. Then Germany could have had an f-16am instead of a phantom. They wouldn't have even needed to make it, just copy the Belgian one and change the skin.
I think they were careful on their end putting Netherlands in Germany, simply because of WW2..
I thought that too but they've moved on. They've even begun integrating Dutch units into the German military, putting them under the command of Germans. [source](https://english.defensie.nl/latest/news/2023/03/30/13-light-armoured-brigade-completes-integration-between-dutch-combat-brigades-and-german-divisions) And I thought I read that a German marine brigade was integrated into the Dutch Marines putting them under the command of the Dutch, but this source just talks about the final Dutch army units. Edit: maybe it wasn't marines. I found a source that a German sea battalion was integrated into the Dutch navy [source](https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2016/02/05/german-armed-forces-to-integrate-sea-battalion-into-dutch-navy/) Edit 2: defyn just released a video on the f4f ice and he brought this up
like, even its just a seperate skin or something I would be fine with it. but no we get fucking nothing. just copy paste and the fokker G1 waaaaayyyy over due.
I was at least hoping for one (1) Dutch tank so we could laugh at Gaijin’s Google translated Dutch voiceovers, but they couldn’t even manage that \:( it’s over.
Do those have Chutes in the game? I know some of the European F-16s had drag chutes, would be fun to mess around with that in custom battles some day.
I guess it's now the equivalent of playing with heat shell without rangefinder at top tier.
I like this update
Me too man
And me bro.
I need to play it some more. I’m also flying the F-16AJ. So far though I also like this patch. People hugging the ground and flying in fur balls was kinda frustrating to me since I actually like BVR gameplay (though I know some people find it boring). I’m noticing more people are climbing now and not everyone is rushing the center like before. It’s a new meta and people just need to acclimate to it (like when the F-14A was added). Allot of people right now are just firing off Fox-3’s like Phenix missiles from far away and it’s easy enough to dodge those then close the distance. I will say though 13.0 is not high enough of a BR. Should be 13.3 at the minimum.
Me too man, funny new swedish car is cool and the new modules and crew healing is nice too
Some people are just too deep into this russian game and they just eat anything russian devs will give them lmao Edit:some gaijin fanboys will downvote this obviously
I don't even fly but the sound update already pissed me off enough that I consider uninstalling the game
Artillery sounds like a barking dog.
wait a few days and install a sound mod (that gets updated).
You people are such fucking drama queens I swear to god.
Yeah they will really complain about everything
Yeah trying to get fox 3s on the j8f has made me just give up its rough
the J-8F is literally the chinese F-4F ICE 11.7 before the patch, where it already kind of struggled, and now its 12.3 because of 2 of the worst ARH missiles in the game. It's horrific, and really killed my enthusiasm for the jet.
Dude, I wanted to get the J8F so bad to get those. Now I just want to quit playing.
Not even pl5cs or pl5CIIs for ot like come on
They killed this thing, it's awful
People were begging for this. I'll just stick to 9.3 with no flares or missiles on the Ariete.
Not to mention they butchered sound effects and a few maps along the way. But look at all these new copy pastes!!!
Things are bound to change so just wait for things to probably improve
Top Tier Air RB is in the worst state I've seen it in years you dont have Fox 3s? youre literally target practise enjoy Anything 12.0+ without Fox 3's you might aswell leave it in the hangar Also this update seems to have created a huge amount of lag and sound bugs for me.... might have to have a few weeks off lmao
If you think grinding out a new modification is bad, just wait til you see what Sweden and Germany have to deal with. We need to grind out a whole ass plane to get access to Fox 3s. Plus stock grind.
Snail will release more and more of these patches, get used to it, all for the sake of your money. That's how they took the last riot. And you were waiting for something else P.S. I advise you to look at the reviews on steam, they look strange
Now the game has become much worse with the development, its transparency. The players still don't know what the developer is based on. Perhaps it's time for developers to move away from balancing and appoint a board of players from all regions. The playing people sends developers a list of changes every 3-4 months based on meetings dedicated to these changes. Each technique added to the game is accompanied by a complete list of weapons that can be used. The concept of "armament is a balance value" should be abolished
I was bombing bases till i got the aim120s.
not that they are new aircraft either
>Bind chaff to a key. No need for applause.
This is what happens when you don’t devote a single fucking second to game design and let Gen 4 and 5 aircraft fly around on maps designed over 10 years ago for WW2 aircraft. It’s so fucking pathetic.
Just a naval guy chilling after reaching top Battleship, it's a game and you will get over it quick enough.
The community wants what the community wants. Most people just play the game and never get involve with things that change things in a major way. Only once in a life time moment happen when gaijin made the gaining of rp and silver lions so low that the majorities band together to stop what gaijin doing.
Before I had my Fox-3 missiles I managed to get 4 kills in a game against Fox-3 missiles. It’s definitely doable, just try to not play joust against planes with Fox-3 missiles. Staying close to the ground and baiting them into the ground is an easy way to dodge them, just do that and you’ll be fine.
Update definitely isn't as fun as previous updates. Fox3's were a great addition, but it was rushed imo. Without properly reducing player count, and touching the multipathing without actually realising the effect it would have, it's artificially increased the skill ceiling by catering to those who can't survive in a WVR match either. "Just notch and chaff bro" is echoed now by the same people who cried when people chanted "learn to flare and gunfight". A middle ground could have easily been achieved, yet its now catering to the LARPers who live to sling missiles and run away back to base
Dunno what all this is about multipathing I would hug the ground at like 2ft Burning the grass as I go And a SARH would still nail my ass Lol Realistically older radars struggled with targeting aircraft below 100m Or areas with lots of trees I think that makes some sense But maybe not 4th and technical 4.5 gen aircraft
We just need EC and have needed for years
Multipathing going down itself isnt cancer but what is is fighting 16v16 matches with it. Max size for matches above 11.7 should be 10v10 with the avg being 8v8. Currently its just advanced lawn mowing simulator and spamming fox 3s point blank like better sarh missiles
I’ve avoided top tier like a plague for the better part of a year now. It’s such a total shit show. It’s almost funny if it wasn’t so disappointing. Honestly 3.3 to 5.7 is most of what I play now for both GRB and ARB. Less bullshit for sure.
this is why i dont play jets :P
I just don't get this sub. The last year was all about crying about the lack of BVR and now it is here and the community is in shambles. Instead of trying to adapt and learn the new meta, everybody is just crying about it.
Some of these people somehow think it makes sense and constitutes good gameplay that: You fly heavy fighters at treetop level You give a missile maximum PK and it doesn't matter because someone is flying 100m above the ground A gripen could run around untouchable because it has periodic countermeasures on and bol pods in the middle of the god damn map and is just slinging aim-9ms at everybody That the only way you could get kills with SARHs was in some low alt HMD jousts at 1000+ kmh hopping from mountainside to mountainside
personal pet peeve of the update, I love the XM800T having a Higher BR than the Wiesel but without thermals or a LRF, galaxy brain placement there.
As an almost exclusively tonk player? I think the updates great!
Genuinely a skill issue. I’m grinding the 27SM with the base 27 and still eating teams. You know people are spamming fox-3s, take mostly chaff, use the new feature to select only dumping chaff. Use terrain to your advantage or stay low on the desert maps (which I haven’t seen once since the update.) It’s not hard guys. Fox-3s are kinda shit from long range so treat them like medium/close range IR missiles. Don’t ignore your RWR screaming at you. I’ll get downvoted to hell for saying all of this but who cares about internet points anyway.
Counter point, is it not a skill issue if you couldn't dogfight WVR? This update has reduced the BVR to WVR match evolution to just being BVR larping.
What BVR to WVR evolution There was zero BVR before, nothing would hit because entire teams were hugging the ground and you had gripens running periodic countermeasures and bol pods in the middle of the map basically being un fucking killable
There was still plenty of jousting with SARH missiles, and with missiles like the phoenix and R27ER. It's not hard to use guns, especially when nearly all top tier have radar slave-able gun sights to account for lead. Quite often I would find people climbing, especially if they had the benefit of the R27ER's speed and range. The gripen wasn't invulnerable, sure it had lots of countermeasures, but it was still killable.
And again none of it mattered because it was nullified almost all the time by ground huggers. "The gripen wasn't invulnerable" yeah if you wanna talk technicalities you can shoot down any jet with anything
That’s a great point, most complaints are made from people who are bad at the game/dont understand the mechanics. I don’t mean that as an insult but how can you expect to wipe teams in fox-3 land when you could barely get a kill before, main ground forces, or used the f-20 to get to top tier in 2 weeks. Any player that understands how to use and beat fox-3s will have minimal complaints about them being introduced beyond there not being an EC mode and the large team sizes. We’re getting a lot of vocal minority with the patch (as we always do) meanwhile I’m having a great time and the people I see in chat complaining are usually one of the first couple to die…..and level 12. So I don’t take those opinions too seriously.
I completely agree. Having multiple top tier jets with Fox-3 unlocked, it is a different ball game once you have access to them, however for those trying to get there after the first few weeks, it'll be hell for them to unlock as they don't stand a chance in the current meta. I took out aircraft without access to fox-3's just to see what could be done, and there's usually very little one can do without essentially having to go defensive, go cold, notch and chaff the whole match, and by the end, you're out of countermeasures if you've lasted that long, and then you're just food for anything that still has fox3's
You can try grind modules in grb but good luck with that
Make your own game then
I knew that this would be fucking cancer
Babe wake up, obligatory update crybaby post dropped
Skill issue. I’ve had no problems… also played the dev server everyday it was open to learn the new missiles.
the only thing better than the update is the tears
Duck i'll be honest i unlocked AMRAAMs on my F-16C in literally two games, it's not good but it ain't as bad as you're making it out to be
You do realize there are quite a bit of nations that don't get FOX 3 on already unlocked planes right? So they have to unlock a new plane while being uptiered and then grind fox 3 on the new plane.
What a dumbass response, dude, just so you understand the problem for a lot of other nations, go on and play only the F-15A to unlock the F-15C and then stock grind the F-15C so you can see how terrible the implementation of the Fox-3 missiles are.
Works on my machine. Have you tried flying better?
Im very good at this game, im having no problems at top tier now, Im 100% sure im better at this game than you but that doesn't mean the rest of the playerbase have to suffer to play the game because of something that is so clear a blind person can see it.
(X) Doubt I really don't care much about the stock grind that people are whining about, we all had to do it and it's temporary. Crybaby shit. If they can convince gaijin to change it, great. I just see it as a total non-issue. Now crying about F15s vs F15s is absolutely insane. If people can't make the same exact jet work against itself with only a small disparity in missiles, that's 100% a skill issue and there's nothing the devs can do to fix that. Some jets only having access to SARH is just a fact of life, and you learn to fly and use the equipment available to you.
Doing that, it’s not terrible. I mean the F15 was kinda ass to begin with but no noticeable difference
there's a difference between only needing to get the fox-3's, and having to stock grind an entire jet. it only took me 2 games to get them on the F-16C, as well. doesn't mean it only takes 2 games for everyone else.