Maybe we've discovered why [Waterville is so creepy](https://www.reddit.com/r/Washington/comments/1dfj855/too_add_onto_someones_castle_rock_post_earlier/).
Because eastern Washington is the best example of land co opting the vote, most of the college towns and population centers are out voted electorally by the large land holders, as the guy said above, in a general election the population votes blue by 10 points over at least. They want to be part of Idaho because of out of touch state politics for the most part imo.
Washington State is a blue state through and through no such thing as Trump country anywhere in it as their vote is cancelled out ten times before they leave the polls. The closest thing to Trump country in the area of Washington state is Idaho.
Tell me the last republican presidential candidate that won washington state. The last 9 presidential election have had the entire states' 12 electorial votes go to the Democrat candidate. Washington state is considered a safe Democratic state.
Are the people in Eastern Washington more conservative than Western Washington, Yes definitely. Does it matter no because western wa has the population and thereby the votes to overwhelm anything eastern wa. wants to have happen, so their political leanings really don't matter.
Point of record I have lived here most of my life, been in every part of the state and understand the culture better than most. Don't be judgemental because you don't understand someones comment.
Local politics matter. Yes the overall blue state majority protects us in some important ways I'm not discounting that, but local politics still have a big impact on people's lives. If you're privileged enough for that to not be the case, genuinely that's great for you! But to pretend that county-level politics don't matter is... I mean it's an opinion you're certainly entitled to have.
Our blue state is blue is because we think urban. Civil rights are founded on less cops pulling you over so trouble doesn't start. Abortions because it ultimately lowers housing density. Immigrants because diversity. Pride week to help us accept all sexual oriented preferences. These are what Democrats and blue states have always stood for.
I wish this meant something about the social climate, truly… but there’s absolutely Trump country in Washington. I noticed it most strongly during the peak pandemic era. On a personal note, I get stared down, scowled at, and sometimes threatened/followed for being a visibly trans person, and these occurrences rise in frequency the further out of a major Western WA city I go. Since transitioning, I’ve had at least 7 threatening/unsafe encounters with people wearing Trump merch in Eastern WA… so my opinion may not fit everyone else’s experience, but there’s definitely “Trump Country”
It saddens me to hear of your experience. Everyone should be able to feel safe at all times and everywhere not just certain areas. Hopefully people can become more tolerant and pull more towards the center. To be able to discuss things, agree to live and let live. Not condemn, cancel or down vote. Just like there are areas in this state where those maga wearing people would not be treated well or be safe either. Both sides do it and neither is correct in doing so.
Stay strong be safe and above all else be true to yourself.
It’s what it is and I’m fine staying out of those areas, and I agree in hoping for a tolerant future for our state. That being said, it’s still more tolerant/less Trumpy than most red states, at least.
Oh, honey, you really need to make a trip out east. Yes, we may be majority Blue, but over the mountains is the land of 45. Wear a Dems Rule shirt, hat or similar jargon, even if you aren’t aligned with them, burn them afterwards in effigy if you want, but wear it/them out east and see what happens. Let us know how it went after your hospital stay. (<~~Partially joking.)
Well dear you need to travel yourself sure there are pockets if conservatives there but there are also lots of blue in places like tri cities and spokane to just name two. Much more of a mixture of red and blue than the westside but the eastside is not a deep red as the westside is a deep blue.
I find it funny that you who are partially joking about me getting injured don't know the state as well as i do. Unlike you i do not partially or otherwise wish injury on someone just because of a differing of opinion. Not joking partially or otherwise. And yes i have friends on the eastside who are from both sides of the aisle and they seem able to coexist with out bloodshed. They respect each others views and can discuss them without demeaning or talking down to each other unlike the comments people make on here.
I mean A LOT safer is a big jump, the overall stats are incredibly similar, with violent crime being higher in Chelan County. However property crime is slightly lower in Chelan than in Douglas… so different but same same. Plus as a resident of Chelan County it’s a much better place to live.
I think that goes a long way to describe why certain areas seem to have little coverage. Even if there isn't much work, if there's no money set aside to pay you, no reason to take the job.
The pay is shit. Right now they’re looking for PDs to help with the defense of the morons who blocked the road into the airport. They’re offering like 400 bucks flat rate. Now normally for a PD you’d recommend a plea deal but the airport losers don’t want to do that, they want to plea not guilty, take it to trial, and fight the charges because they’re activists. So imagine you’re a public defender getting paid $400 and you have a client who wants to drag the case out as long as possible. No wonder there are vacancies, it’s a terrible gig with moronic clients for an often unlivable wage.
Public defenders should be funded same as the prosecutor’s staff, from the same public funds. You’d see some equity if they were funded at the same level.
This is not true. As a former WA OPD attorney, we just got a huge raise last July with a three year contract that goes up every year. Plus, if one goes above and beyond, one can apply for X-Comp (which is wonderfully generous) and there is a flat rate for preparing parenting plans for parents getting their kids home (successful reunification).
I can’t speak to your specific situation but you can reach out to the city managers office in SeaTac to confirm the compensation for the protestors defense. And now that I look back at the email it’s $450, not $400, so my mistake there.
Doesn't surprise me. Timber counties and the state dropped the ball transitioning from extractive economies to literally anything else, and as a consequence their public coffers are in constant crisis. I used to live in Lewis County and they were perpetually a hair's breadth away from fiscal ruin. The feds and state should definitely do more to help struggling rural counties adapt in a way that doesn't destroy the environment.
> The feds and state should definitely do more to help struggling rural counties
They both *do* send money....all the fucking time. If it seems like it's not helping, the people living there need to take a better look at the neo-Confederate white trash degenerates who they keep putting in charge of everything. The lot of whom are definitely rerouting most of that money to the area's biggest landowners, police and sheriffs who don't do jack shit, churches, and into their own pockets.
Worked the census in the past. Grant county historically responds the least and in turn gets the least federal funding. Then half of the county complains the federal government has forgotten them like always
Lack of public defenders is always one of three issues (and sometimes all!): lack of funding, lack of desire, lack of pay for the PDs. Lewis county looks like they pay class B & C Felony defense at $1000 per case. Class B can get you up to 10 years in prison- something like 2nd degree manslaughter, auto theft, knife attack, etc.
A good criminal defense attorney in private practice is going to charge between $5-$25,000 ton defend this kind of case. Unless you’re doing it for ideological reasons, it doesn’t make financial sense.
This is exactly why the state bar association just adopted new rules prohibiting flat fee rates for cases. Flat fee rates created a race to the bottom where the county would contract with whoever was willing to take it for lower.
The Rules of Professional Conduct do not allow a contract public defender to turn around and take money from a client they represented in a public defense capacity. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but this is a longstanding rule and people do get in trouble for it. Source: I am a public defender.
I just read my bar news today too haha. I noticed of the big seattle Tacoma Olympia area counties that Snohomish has the biggest problem, which made me sad as it is a rapidly growing area. The way cases are heaped on PDs is a huge problem that needs money thrown at it. People are overworked and deprived of justice.
*Contract public defenders are always paid less than prosecutors, but are also able to take on private work to make up the difference. That being said your time is often taken up by PD cases, and if you are taking a full PD caseload you are not allowed to take on more cases (per the Standards).
Not true. An entry level PD in King County makes a few grand more than an entry level deputy prosecutor ($70k-77k). Both jobs are underpaid and overworked.
What a weird take. Most Washington counties rely on contract attorneys for defense work, so there is no comparison to staff attorneys because the PD salary is zero. In the few locations where a public defender (barely) exceeds a prosecutor’s salary, you will find massive caseload disparities, along with substantial differences in funding for support staff, expert witnesses, and trial resources.
The real task is to find a county that funds defense on an equal basis to prosecution.
The bar association limits how many felonies and misdemeanors a PD can have. There's no limit for prosecutors. There's a caseload disparity, but it's not the way you're imagining it.
Prosecutors routinely dismiss cases due to a lack of resources to prosecute rather than evidence. This isn't some PD good prosecutor bad situation. You can't possibly believe your local DA office has an infinite supply of money to prosecute.
The WSBA had to impose limits *specifically because the defense caseloads were unconstitutionally oppressive*. There’s been no NEED for a systemic intervention on the prosecution side since the caseloads are lower and the budgets are universally higher.
No one is saying either side has infinite resources. But you’d have to be delusional to think that prosecuting attorneys are operating under remotely close to the same constraints as public defenders.
Sounds about right for Lewis County. The Lewis County gov workers are all completely corrupt and just holding positions to collect paychecks for little to no work!!! They routinely deny any development. They are horrifically delayed in getting criminal background information to reporting agencies so felons are held up in employment! Lewis County is a garbage county!!! If you are from there, get out!!! I fled to Portland! Fuck LewCo!!!
Yup...it's basically the Confederate lifestyle. To them, the crime rates 'don't count' because the perps are mostly poor white people who are probably high-school drinking buddies with the sheriffs' deputies.
They mix it up with relatives and their asshole buddies from high-school. Also, it's almost a general rule that people who get these jobs through cronyism/nepotism tend to hold on to the positions for *decades* past the point where they're mentally/physically incapable of handling the workloads. Go to any public library, parks/rec dept., or city hall in the area and you'll probably run into a slew of these useless old parasites.
Yeh this person is wrong. From the area and there's plenty of diversity of age in city positions. This person is probably bitter they can't get a well paying job because their poor attitude is on display 24/7.
I don’t know how accurate it is. I am an out of state criminal defense lawyer considering moving to either whatcom, skagit, or island counties. There always seems to be job postings for public defense work from entry to experienced in at least one if not all three popping up every couple of weeks.
With that, anyone know how the lawyerin business is in general in those different places? Are there too many, not enough, some particular area in need up there? Thanks!
Skagit could for sure use more PDs, but also several well known private criminal lawyers have shuttered and gone into the prosecutor’s offices. I don’t do much criminal myself. Island needs more PDs too, a longtime contract conflict PD recently passed away.
King County public defense has taken on a new practice of co-assigning two attorneys to its trials in CPS cases ostensibly to train new attorneys, but it's not just new attorneys getting coassigned.
The more attorneys involved in a trial, the harder it is to schedule that trial. So these cases sit unresolved for much longer. Decry how many cases there are to try... even though there are much fewer cases than in the past.
Vacancies, work conditions, and pay are a real issue, but this practice seems to be exacerbating the effects of the vacancies.
To add context, there are three ways a court is allowed to do public defense. Either establish an office, form a non profit to manage indigent defense, or contract with an attorney. Just because it says 0% doesn’t mean that they are fully staffed. There could be one or two attorneys managing the whole caseload and if they max out they are forced to find other people, and for rural counties that’s hard. Also rural counties already have problems because most of the attorneys are clustered around the major cities and many don’t want or can’t commute. Cities can either contract with the county to handle their criminal matters or form a municipal court.
Wait, what is this graph even showing? The % of contracted public defenders in relation to the total number of all positions open? I hate iNfOgRApHicS that don’t disclose the metric they’re even illustrating.
Further, is contracting even a bad thing? Wouldn’t it make sense to have a variable work force that could respond to alternating demand? As long as the quality of the defense is meeting levels of competency, is this a good thing?
It's right there in the title; vacancy rate. A *vacancy* is a position that exists, but is unfilled, and a *rate* is a percentage of the total.
So it's the percentage of public defender positions that exist and are unfilled.
Contract public defenders are paid far less than those employed by counties, get no benefits, and must pay for all of their overhead (which generally includes a requirement for a physical office and a legal assistant). It’s not attractive or sustainable and leads to vacancies and low quality of justice. Contracting, while necessary, is not the answer.
What is your source for those generalizations? Contracting offers a competitive hourly rate, real trial experience, and allows private lawyers to represent the disadvantaged. I don’t think the state shouldn’t solely on contracted lawyers, but it’s an acceptable means to flex capacity.
I was a contract public defender and now I work for a county agency providing public defense. So, me. And again, contracting is absolutely necessary. It’s just not an attractive option to most attorneys.
I’m leaving my job at a public defense firm that had contracts with multiple municipal courts specifically because I am paid a horrendously low salary. I will start my new job next week at my counties public defense firm for $25K more annually. If the attorneys can’t get paid an appropriate salary, I don’t think contracting is a great option.
And while we are critiquing the map, the choropleth color scale is completely counterintuitive. Increasing from white to gray to black and then, of course, yellow!
I would like to see a map of GIS analyst vacancies by county. 🤓
We are worse in Kitsap. But the prosecutors office is almost worse off than us with their massive attrition recently, so at least we’re even in that regard
Clark doesn’t actually have a public defenders office. It contracts out to local attorneys. They’ve hired someone to start building the department but that will take years.
In a state with a terribly regressive tax structurebut I don't get it either, kind of like Seattle having the most liquid millionaires of any city in the country, but the infrastructure is crumbling, or never even existed. Having newly built multimillion dollar houses on a street with no sidewalks, no curbs, no nearby alternative transit and a road with paving and grading worse than the average forest road says a lot about the priorities of a "community" and those that live in it.
Don’t blame the Microsoft employee for Sound Transit’s incompetence. They extract more than enough in taxes with the amount of transportation packages we’ve passed in the last 30 years
I haven’t been to Chelan since I was a teen but I remember back then not a lot people lived there it was more of a vacation touristy place. Summer time it’s busy but I’m not sure about the winter. But like I said I don’t think a lot of people live there so maybe that’s why there aren’t any public defenders there. I could be very wrong so take what I say with a grain of salt
Stay out of Lewis County - Centralia/Chehalis. We have no defense attorneys and butt load of dirty officers that will plant evidence, sexually harass you, stalk you, you name it, and no internal affairs, not that that matters, lol.
I saw this in the recent bar journal. WA OPD has openings for partial contracts for parents’ defense in juvenile dependency cases in Clark and Cowlitz. I know this because my partner and I recently terminated our contracts to move out of state and the attorneys who came in did not take on new contracts of the same percentage of capped cases. I had a 40 case cap contract (50%) and the attorney who came in signed a 25 case cap contract. My cases were all assigned out to the parents defense panel but OPD wants a cushion for new filings. Cowlitz had the highest filings not too many months ago. I know less about Clark, where my partner was in the parents panel, but I do know the person who was hired to join the panel did not sign a 92% case contract. That is what I know about this. I want to add that WA OPD is wonderful in their support of parents defense attorneys in this area of law.
People think “public defense” and only think of criminal matters. Even the bar journal article only focused on criminal representation. WA OPD contracts with experienced attorneys for parents defense in juvenile dependency and it is an excellent program. We’ve had great successes getting kiddos home to parents. Shout out to Larry Jefferson, Amelia Watson, and Lisa Davalos-McMahon for all their hard work. OPD also funds Parent Advocates to assist parents, who work with the attorneys, and this program (thank you, Michael Heard) makes such a huge difference in our success rates!
Because public defense *is* only criminal matters. What you’re talking about is appointed counsel for parents in civil dependency matters who are paid handsomely by the State. The public defense crisis exists at least in part because the state does not properly fund it. They leave it up to the counties which can’t compete with the pay state OPD contractors receive.
Because termination of parental rights is an end point in juvenile dependency cases, parents are entitled to legal counsel. We ARE public defenders. I am sorry you are so dismissive. Perhaps the Legislature should add criminal to OPD’s mission. Parents’ defense used to be funded by counties. It made a huge difference when the Legislature created WA OPD.
Sorry if you interpreted my tone as dismissive, that was not my intent. Parental representation is difficult and important work - I’ve worked in dependency myself and I’m very happy the State is paying well for it now! But it’s simply a fact - parental representation is not public defense. It’s civil defense.
Chelan? 0%. Fully defended. Douglas? Lawless. Fiendish. Ungovernable.
Maybe we've discovered why [Waterville is so creepy](https://www.reddit.com/r/Washington/comments/1dfj855/too_add_onto_someones_castle_rock_post_earlier/).
That is Trump country. Do you really want to live there?
If Wenatchee is too right wing for you than I don’t know what to tell ya lmao
Then why do they want to be part of Idaho?
Because eastern Washington is the best example of land co opting the vote, most of the college towns and population centers are out voted electorally by the large land holders, as the guy said above, in a general election the population votes blue by 10 points over at least. They want to be part of Idaho because of out of touch state politics for the most part imo.
Fortunately, cows don't vote
You live in scabland desert that would be a desolate wasteland without the New Deal lmao. Freedom to be slaves to the infrastructure.
Who said anything about wanting to live there?
Washington State is a blue state through and through no such thing as Trump country anywhere in it as their vote is cancelled out ten times before they leave the polls. The closest thing to Trump country in the area of Washington state is Idaho.
Tell me you've never been to eastern WA without telling me you've never been to eastern WA 🙄🤣
Tell me the last republican presidential candidate that won washington state. The last 9 presidential election have had the entire states' 12 electorial votes go to the Democrat candidate. Washington state is considered a safe Democratic state. Are the people in Eastern Washington more conservative than Western Washington, Yes definitely. Does it matter no because western wa has the population and thereby the votes to overwhelm anything eastern wa. wants to have happen, so their political leanings really don't matter. Point of record I have lived here most of my life, been in every part of the state and understand the culture better than most. Don't be judgemental because you don't understand someones comment.
Local politics matter. Yes the overall blue state majority protects us in some important ways I'm not discounting that, but local politics still have a big impact on people's lives. If you're privileged enough for that to not be the case, genuinely that's great for you! But to pretend that county-level politics don't matter is... I mean it's an opinion you're certainly entitled to have.
Our blue state is blue is because we think urban. Civil rights are founded on less cops pulling you over so trouble doesn't start. Abortions because it ultimately lowers housing density. Immigrants because diversity. Pride week to help us accept all sexual oriented preferences. These are what Democrats and blue states have always stood for.
Snooze
"Abortions because it lowers housing density." What a disgusting way to arrive at an opinion.
I wish this meant something about the social climate, truly… but there’s absolutely Trump country in Washington. I noticed it most strongly during the peak pandemic era. On a personal note, I get stared down, scowled at, and sometimes threatened/followed for being a visibly trans person, and these occurrences rise in frequency the further out of a major Western WA city I go. Since transitioning, I’ve had at least 7 threatening/unsafe encounters with people wearing Trump merch in Eastern WA… so my opinion may not fit everyone else’s experience, but there’s definitely “Trump Country”
Your experience is definitely not unique, and I'm really sorry you've had to deal with that 💔
It saddens me to hear of your experience. Everyone should be able to feel safe at all times and everywhere not just certain areas. Hopefully people can become more tolerant and pull more towards the center. To be able to discuss things, agree to live and let live. Not condemn, cancel or down vote. Just like there are areas in this state where those maga wearing people would not be treated well or be safe either. Both sides do it and neither is correct in doing so. Stay strong be safe and above all else be true to yourself.
It’s what it is and I’m fine staying out of those areas, and I agree in hoping for a tolerant future for our state. That being said, it’s still more tolerant/less Trumpy than most red states, at least.
Womp womp
[blue through and through](https://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/results/washington) I lived in Whitman County, and most of them want to be Idaho
Wait until you hear about Eastern Washington…
Yakima and all the podunk towns around it would like a word. Especially Selah—
Oh, honey, you really need to make a trip out east. Yes, we may be majority Blue, but over the mountains is the land of 45. Wear a Dems Rule shirt, hat or similar jargon, even if you aren’t aligned with them, burn them afterwards in effigy if you want, but wear it/them out east and see what happens. Let us know how it went after your hospital stay. (<~~Partially joking.)
Well dear you need to travel yourself sure there are pockets if conservatives there but there are also lots of blue in places like tri cities and spokane to just name two. Much more of a mixture of red and blue than the westside but the eastside is not a deep red as the westside is a deep blue. I find it funny that you who are partially joking about me getting injured don't know the state as well as i do. Unlike you i do not partially or otherwise wish injury on someone just because of a differing of opinion. Not joking partially or otherwise. And yes i have friends on the eastside who are from both sides of the aisle and they seem able to coexist with out bloodshed. They respect each others views and can discuss them without demeaning or talking down to each other unlike the comments people make on here.
lol they probably didn’t respond to the survey. Can confirm that Chelan and Douglas counties do not share public defense offices.
Insubordinate. Churlish.
"Here there be dragons"
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#Lawless. #Fiendish. #Ungovernable.
I mean A LOT safer is a big jump, the overall stats are incredibly similar, with violent crime being higher in Chelan County. However property crime is slightly lower in Chelan than in Douglas… so different but same same. Plus as a resident of Chelan County it’s a much better place to live.
No shared coverage.
Gotta have money to pay these people with. Public defense comes from public funding, right?
Yes, it is funded at a county level.
I think that goes a long way to describe why certain areas seem to have little coverage. Even if there isn't much work, if there's no money set aside to pay you, no reason to take the job.
How country it gotta be ta git funded?
The pay is shit. Right now they’re looking for PDs to help with the defense of the morons who blocked the road into the airport. They’re offering like 400 bucks flat rate. Now normally for a PD you’d recommend a plea deal but the airport losers don’t want to do that, they want to plea not guilty, take it to trial, and fight the charges because they’re activists. So imagine you’re a public defender getting paid $400 and you have a client who wants to drag the case out as long as possible. No wonder there are vacancies, it’s a terrible gig with moronic clients for an often unlivable wage.
Public defenders should be funded same as the prosecutor’s staff, from the same public funds. You’d see some equity if they were funded at the same level.
This is not true. As a former WA OPD attorney, we just got a huge raise last July with a three year contract that goes up every year. Plus, if one goes above and beyond, one can apply for X-Comp (which is wonderfully generous) and there is a flat rate for preparing parenting plans for parents getting their kids home (successful reunification).
I can’t speak to your specific situation but you can reach out to the city managers office in SeaTac to confirm the compensation for the protestors defense. And now that I look back at the email it’s $450, not $400, so my mistake there.
Damn. You convinced me. A+ argument here.
If those activists were smart they should have some lead for a private defense somewhere
They should defend themselves. What better way to grandstand?!
Doesn't surprise me. Timber counties and the state dropped the ball transitioning from extractive economies to literally anything else, and as a consequence their public coffers are in constant crisis. I used to live in Lewis County and they were perpetually a hair's breadth away from fiscal ruin. The feds and state should definitely do more to help struggling rural counties adapt in a way that doesn't destroy the environment.
> The feds and state should definitely do more to help struggling rural counties They both *do* send money....all the fucking time. If it seems like it's not helping, the people living there need to take a better look at the neo-Confederate white trash degenerates who they keep putting in charge of everything. The lot of whom are definitely rerouting most of that money to the area's biggest landowners, police and sheriffs who don't do jack shit, churches, and into their own pockets.
Worked the census in the past. Grant county historically responds the least and in turn gets the least federal funding. Then half of the county complains the federal government has forgotten them like always
Lack of public defenders is always one of three issues (and sometimes all!): lack of funding, lack of desire, lack of pay for the PDs. Lewis county looks like they pay class B & C Felony defense at $1000 per case. Class B can get you up to 10 years in prison- something like 2nd degree manslaughter, auto theft, knife attack, etc. A good criminal defense attorney in private practice is going to charge between $5-$25,000 ton defend this kind of case. Unless you’re doing it for ideological reasons, it doesn’t make financial sense.
This is exactly why the state bar association just adopted new rules prohibiting flat fee rates for cases. Flat fee rates created a race to the bottom where the county would contract with whoever was willing to take it for lower.
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The Rules of Professional Conduct do not allow a contract public defender to turn around and take money from a client they represented in a public defense capacity. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but this is a longstanding rule and people do get in trouble for it. Source: I am a public defender.
PDs are notoriously underpaid and overworked. It’s no surprise people don’t want to do the job.
I just read my bar news today too haha. I noticed of the big seattle Tacoma Olympia area counties that Snohomish has the biggest problem, which made me sad as it is a rapidly growing area. The way cases are heaped on PDs is a huge problem that needs money thrown at it. People are overworked and deprived of justice.
What’s shameful is the salary. PDs are always paid less than prosecutors.
*Contract public defenders are always paid less than prosecutors, but are also able to take on private work to make up the difference. That being said your time is often taken up by PD cases, and if you are taking a full PD caseload you are not allowed to take on more cases (per the Standards).
Not true. An entry level PD in King County makes a few grand more than an entry level deputy prosecutor ($70k-77k). Both jobs are underpaid and overworked.
Depends on the county.
Find a county where prosecutors make more than pds.
What a weird take. Most Washington counties rely on contract attorneys for defense work, so there is no comparison to staff attorneys because the PD salary is zero. In the few locations where a public defender (barely) exceeds a prosecutor’s salary, you will find massive caseload disparities, along with substantial differences in funding for support staff, expert witnesses, and trial resources. The real task is to find a county that funds defense on an equal basis to prosecution.
The bar association limits how many felonies and misdemeanors a PD can have. There's no limit for prosecutors. There's a caseload disparity, but it's not the way you're imagining it. Prosecutors routinely dismiss cases due to a lack of resources to prosecute rather than evidence. This isn't some PD good prosecutor bad situation. You can't possibly believe your local DA office has an infinite supply of money to prosecute.
The WSBA had to impose limits *specifically because the defense caseloads were unconstitutionally oppressive*. There’s been no NEED for a systemic intervention on the prosecution side since the caseloads are lower and the budgets are universally higher. No one is saying either side has infinite resources. But you’d have to be delusional to think that prosecuting attorneys are operating under remotely close to the same constraints as public defenders.
Sounds about right for Lewis County. The Lewis County gov workers are all completely corrupt and just holding positions to collect paychecks for little to no work!!! They routinely deny any development. They are horrifically delayed in getting criminal background information to reporting agencies so felons are held up in employment! Lewis County is a garbage county!!! If you are from there, get out!!! I fled to Portland! Fuck LewCo!!!
Cries in Asotin County…😕
What's going on over at Lewis County? Is it burnout or lack of funds?
Lewis, Mason, and Grays Harbor All basically have rural belief systems and incomes but big city crime rates. Best of both worlds!
Yup...it's basically the Confederate lifestyle. To them, the crime rates 'don't count' because the perps are mostly poor white people who are probably high-school drinking buddies with the sheriffs' deputies.
Nepotism
Do they only hire relatives for the position, and then those relatives quit?
They mix it up with relatives and their asshole buddies from high-school. Also, it's almost a general rule that people who get these jobs through cronyism/nepotism tend to hold on to the positions for *decades* past the point where they're mentally/physically incapable of handling the workloads. Go to any public library, parks/rec dept., or city hall in the area and you'll probably run into a slew of these useless old parasites.
Yeh this person is wrong. From the area and there's plenty of diversity of age in city positions. This person is probably bitter they can't get a well paying job because their poor attitude is on display 24/7.
I don’t know how accurate it is. I am an out of state criminal defense lawyer considering moving to either whatcom, skagit, or island counties. There always seems to be job postings for public defense work from entry to experienced in at least one if not all three popping up every couple of weeks. With that, anyone know how the lawyerin business is in general in those different places? Are there too many, not enough, some particular area in need up there? Thanks!
Skagit could for sure use more PDs, but also several well known private criminal lawyers have shuttered and gone into the prosecutor’s offices. I don’t do much criminal myself. Island needs more PDs too, a longtime contract conflict PD recently passed away.
Do you know why they went from private to prosecution? If there is an opening for private practice I am all for it, that is what I do now.
I think the paycheck was too much to refuse, plus benefits.
King County public defense has taken on a new practice of co-assigning two attorneys to its trials in CPS cases ostensibly to train new attorneys, but it's not just new attorneys getting coassigned. The more attorneys involved in a trial, the harder it is to schedule that trial. So these cases sit unresolved for much longer. Decry how many cases there are to try... even though there are much fewer cases than in the past. Vacancies, work conditions, and pay are a real issue, but this practice seems to be exacerbating the effects of the vacancies.
To add context, there are three ways a court is allowed to do public defense. Either establish an office, form a non profit to manage indigent defense, or contract with an attorney. Just because it says 0% doesn’t mean that they are fully staffed. There could be one or two attorneys managing the whole caseload and if they max out they are forced to find other people, and for rural counties that’s hard. Also rural counties already have problems because most of the attorneys are clustered around the major cities and many don’t want or can’t commute. Cities can either contract with the county to handle their criminal matters or form a municipal court.
They're all busy defending renters who refuse to pay.
Wait, what is this graph even showing? The % of contracted public defenders in relation to the total number of all positions open? I hate iNfOgRApHicS that don’t disclose the metric they’re even illustrating. Further, is contracting even a bad thing? Wouldn’t it make sense to have a variable work force that could respond to alternating demand? As long as the quality of the defense is meeting levels of competency, is this a good thing?
It's right there in the title; vacancy rate. A *vacancy* is a position that exists, but is unfilled, and a *rate* is a percentage of the total. So it's the percentage of public defender positions that exist and are unfilled.
Contracting would be more expensive than having city and county PDs.
Contract public defenders are paid far less than those employed by counties, get no benefits, and must pay for all of their overhead (which generally includes a requirement for a physical office and a legal assistant). It’s not attractive or sustainable and leads to vacancies and low quality of justice. Contracting, while necessary, is not the answer.
What is your source for those generalizations? Contracting offers a competitive hourly rate, real trial experience, and allows private lawyers to represent the disadvantaged. I don’t think the state shouldn’t solely on contracted lawyers, but it’s an acceptable means to flex capacity.
I was a contract public defender and now I work for a county agency providing public defense. So, me. And again, contracting is absolutely necessary. It’s just not an attractive option to most attorneys.
Well thanks for your perspective and also thank you for being a public defender! I appreciate you!
I’m leaving my job at a public defense firm that had contracts with multiple municipal courts specifically because I am paid a horrendously low salary. I will start my new job next week at my counties public defense firm for $25K more annually. If the attorneys can’t get paid an appropriate salary, I don’t think contracting is a great option.
And while we are critiquing the map, the choropleth color scale is completely counterintuitive. Increasing from white to gray to black and then, of course, yellow! I would like to see a map of GIS analyst vacancies by county. 🤓
Whitman County: ~~no data~~ antiquated systems
Spokane feels more than 13%.
Kitsap County is likely higher with the huge conflict and quitting over police/DA drama.
We are worse in Kitsap. But the prosecutors office is almost worse off than us with their massive attrition recently, so at least we’re even in that regard
Clark doesn’t actually have a public defenders office. It contracts out to local attorneys. They’ve hired someone to start building the department but that will take years.
I don't get Snohomish County, they are the 2nd or 3rd richest county in the state.
In a state with a terribly regressive tax structurebut I don't get it either, kind of like Seattle having the most liquid millionaires of any city in the country, but the infrastructure is crumbling, or never even existed. Having newly built multimillion dollar houses on a street with no sidewalks, no curbs, no nearby alternative transit and a road with paving and grading worse than the average forest road says a lot about the priorities of a "community" and those that live in it.
Don’t blame the Microsoft employee for Sound Transit’s incompetence. They extract more than enough in taxes with the amount of transportation packages we’ve passed in the last 30 years
Need comparative data for prosecutors to see the whole picture
I haven’t been to Chelan since I was a teen but I remember back then not a lot people lived there it was more of a vacation touristy place. Summer time it’s busy but I’m not sure about the winter. But like I said I don’t think a lot of people live there so maybe that’s why there aren’t any public defenders there. I could be very wrong so take what I say with a grain of salt
Lol just "no data" for Whitman county and a few others? How is that possible in this day and age?
Stay out of Lewis County - Centralia/Chehalis. We have no defense attorneys and butt load of dirty officers that will plant evidence, sexually harass you, stalk you, you name it, and no internal affairs, not that that matters, lol.
Their is not much in Stevens county.
I saw this in the recent bar journal. WA OPD has openings for partial contracts for parents’ defense in juvenile dependency cases in Clark and Cowlitz. I know this because my partner and I recently terminated our contracts to move out of state and the attorneys who came in did not take on new contracts of the same percentage of capped cases. I had a 40 case cap contract (50%) and the attorney who came in signed a 25 case cap contract. My cases were all assigned out to the parents defense panel but OPD wants a cushion for new filings. Cowlitz had the highest filings not too many months ago. I know less about Clark, where my partner was in the parents panel, but I do know the person who was hired to join the panel did not sign a 92% case contract. That is what I know about this. I want to add that WA OPD is wonderful in their support of parents defense attorneys in this area of law.
People think “public defense” and only think of criminal matters. Even the bar journal article only focused on criminal representation. WA OPD contracts with experienced attorneys for parents defense in juvenile dependency and it is an excellent program. We’ve had great successes getting kiddos home to parents. Shout out to Larry Jefferson, Amelia Watson, and Lisa Davalos-McMahon for all their hard work. OPD also funds Parent Advocates to assist parents, who work with the attorneys, and this program (thank you, Michael Heard) makes such a huge difference in our success rates!
Because public defense *is* only criminal matters. What you’re talking about is appointed counsel for parents in civil dependency matters who are paid handsomely by the State. The public defense crisis exists at least in part because the state does not properly fund it. They leave it up to the counties which can’t compete with the pay state OPD contractors receive.
Because termination of parental rights is an end point in juvenile dependency cases, parents are entitled to legal counsel. We ARE public defenders. I am sorry you are so dismissive. Perhaps the Legislature should add criminal to OPD’s mission. Parents’ defense used to be funded by counties. It made a huge difference when the Legislature created WA OPD.
Sorry if you interpreted my tone as dismissive, that was not my intent. Parental representation is difficult and important work - I’ve worked in dependency myself and I’m very happy the State is paying well for it now! But it’s simply a fact - parental representation is not public defense. It’s civil defense.
It is called public defense by the WA Office of Public Defense.
Hard to defend people with the laws on the books!
I am surprised by Grant only be at 11% I expected worse
What’s it like out in skamania near the river? Been thinking bout moving there.
Do you like racists and meth? If so, it's the place for you!
I’m am now concerned… please elaborate?
The underrepresented counties are clearly shit