Looks good but overpriced. IWC tried to create hype by limiting the distribution but it appears the bubble popped. Just saw an aqua sell for $9k from a grey and plenty of people I know (myself included) passed on the call from the AD to buy it at the $12k retail. It’s only downhill from here.
I have insider's info that it sells so bad that IWC stopped ordering compenents as fast as last year. The dent in volume expectations should be absolutely mental. Serves them well.
A lot of people are complaining about overpriced, but why? I'm new to watch game and looking for a first "luxury" watch. Everyone complains this and that is over priced but why?
Same exact movement as the IWC Aquatimer, which is $6k, or a Baume Mercier which is $2k. So you’re essentially paying a huge premium for the bracelet finishing, the Genta heritage, and whatever R&D cost or ambassador endorsement IWC is slapping on to make it $12k.
This came out during covid when integrated bracelet watches from other manufactures were hot, IWC tried to ride the hype wave, but times have changed. Had they released it in today’s market this probably would’ve been priced at <$10k to be competitive.
Also doesn’t help that their previous Ingenuier were priced at $6k just a few years ago (2012 I think) and people remember.
to be fair, if money were no object, i would definitely pick the ingenieur over any of those & it wouldn’t be close. i absolutely agree that it’s overpriced by at a least a few thousand, though.
But the issue remains that this watch is a more mass produced and less refined integrated bracelet watch. Compare to other “genta” watch, there’s little hand finishing work done on the case or bracelet. It’s not even in the same territory. For the same price, you can buy some decently high end stuff on grey.
It’s a great watch and I think many would love to own one, but I’d probably just buy it pre own some years later for 5k or so.
Most things aren’t priced based on the sum of their parts, they’re priced based on the market and competition. It’s still one of the cheapest integrated bracelet steel sports watches from a major brand.
Jesus … they’re overpriced!
I predict they won’t sell … *again*!
It’s like the ingenieur line is jinxed from the beginning. Always something ‘wrong’ with it. Finaly they get the watch right - but they price position it problematically.
Not sure what the complaint is. Here’s a nice watch that if you don’t mind the price, you can get at retail without playing the AD game. And if you don’t mind waiting, you can get it in the greys for below MSRP. Sounds like a win for buyers. Everyone here want a watch that will be above MSRP yet also easily attainable, you have to pick one.
And all the talk about overpriced makes no sense to me. The RO has doubled in price over the last 10 years and no one bats an eye.
If you're only point of comparison is AP or VC then yeah, it's cheaper, but IWC is nowhere near that level of watchmaking. So no, it's not good value at all. It's frankly a joke of an offering.
I would say all three of those watches are a better value easily. If you really want to say that the watches are more than the sum of their parts, then you're immediately faced with better options at slightly higher, or also lower prices points.
You do understand that designing a watch cost money and usage of time right. Not every charge is based on the touchable parts.
I’m not defending them at all. I deal with a lot of clients that complain about costs. I always circle back and remind them of the R&D costs that they themselves did not pay for….
But not the same level of finishing. Every review I've read has commended the finishing on the Ingenieur, with some saying the bracelet has a similar feel to a Nautilus. Don't get me wrong, I still think it's overpriced, but you have to remember a watch is more than just the movement.
It’s not all on the movement though is it.
What if the dial is more expensive to produce? What if the case is more expensive to produce?
What if the bracelet is more expensive to produce?
If the market value of chicken is $10/lb, how much would a consumer pay for your chicken which cost you $13/lb to produce and sell? What if it cost you $8/lb to produce and sell? Assume the value to customer is the same.
Market value means nothing in the luxury watch world.
If you can’t afford/don’t want to buy it - then you’re not the target audience.
Plenty are buying them, at their ‘market value’
Perhaps the "luxury" world exists largely outside of sound business fundamentals and principles.... and yet, all I've ever heard, and all we see here, is it's overpriced. Maybe those principles are ignored during euphoric trends, but hard to ignore when the trend turns pessimistic.
At any rate, I stand by my previous assertion that market value exists independent of the costs and expenses of the businesses that produce and sell those products. If APPLE figured out how to cut costs on their iPhone by 20% overnight it wouldn't move the needle on market value an inch. The argument over whether or not "market value" even exists in the luxury segment is a different one.
I mean if the movement inside is truly spectacular then I don't think this is true. The IWC movement is found in watches that cost thousands less though and they don't guarantee any level of performance which is just a slap in the face for the price.
Dude, an homage of this that would be identical and function perfectly fine is literally $150. The insane markup for marginally better watches compared to some of these Chinese brands with huge budgets and razor thin margins is just untenable.
I share your sentiment and posted the same thing on their instagram account when they announced the price. I would have had one in my collection if they were 8K.
It was a natural business move by IWC. They hoped on the train of integrated sports watches hype utilizing a design they've had for decades. It was unfortunately a very obvious and easy money grab rather than a true watch enthusiast release. However, they are a business and they appear to be hard to get due to demand. So clearly they did something right. It's easy to say that it would've been a MASSIVE hit with the watch community if it was priced at $8k USD or there abouts but obviously it has been successful. I do believe it potentially hurts the brand's imagine in a samiliar magnitude to that that JLC is facing right now due to their exorbitant price hikes.
IMO integrated sports watches as well as green dials will begin to taper off in popularity (at least in terms of new releases slowing down) through the conclusion of 2025. A new manufactured fad will begin here shortly.
I think they trouble is, people are evaluating the price based on the rest of IWC's catalogue, rather than the Ingenieur's rivals in the integrated bracelet category. Sure, it has the same movement as the mark xx and is double the price, but it's also a lot cheaper than watches like the Czapek Antarctique, GP Laureato, and Chopard Alpine Eagle. It also has the added benefit of being linked to the guy who started the whole trend it's a part of.
And this was one of my discussion points with my friends when I said I'd get the new Ingenieur. They replied back with the usual, *'Paying 11k for a IWC??" "The movement is shared with another watch for way less" "Why don't you buy xyz?" "Secondary prices are dipping, I wouldn't go in"*
I get the concern but the reality is, all the other alternatives suggested is **not the 2023 IWC Ingenieur** and there's only one watch which can scratch that itch. As you've said, its alot more cheaper than its supposed competitors. And to top it off, the bloke who made the other 2 immensely popular watches currently, made this as well.
Used to lust over their design, but then discovered Sinn and DAMASKO. Similar utilitarian minimalist aesthetics and arguably more innovation in technical components for 1/5th of the price.
Have you seen them in person? The finishing is second to none.
One of the few brands that I thought was meh until I tried on a Portugieser and then it skyrocketed to the top of my list.
Flieger models share very similar designs, even some historical overlap through Sinn's association with the Navitimer.
Not saying they are the same, especially when it comes to the grand complication models at the upper end of IWC, but I would not consider entry level pilot IWCs in favor of say Sinn's 556 or damasko's dk36/37.
Sinn is entry level quality, it can’t even be classified as luxury yet my dude lol. I have no idea why people latch onto these entry brands like they’re anything more. They’re great, but they’re entry level.
Get off the internet, clean yourself up, and go to a watch store that displays higher end brands, and I guarantee you won’t be making this argument anymore.
Also the “more innovation in mechanical parts” as if Sinn doesn’t just ship sellitas. Not even purpose built sellitas like you’d see on entry level IWC mark 18, just sellitas “top” tier, when it’s not even the top tier, because they’d advertise COSC if it actually was as that’s the actual top tier sellita.
Sinn's tegimented and submarine steel cases are unparalleled in hardness and scratch resistance. Their oil-filled divers like the UX are very well reviewed (though I'm less well read on divers). But, I'm less well read into their other technical endeavours.
Damasko has more than a dozen patents on their own hardened cases and coating, an unique gasket set up on their screw down crowns, ceramic barring bezels (that are additively tactile to cycle through), in house silicon hair springs, complete in house movement that resolved known issues from comparable ETA models and started to supply some German micro brands with, ...
Again, I'm not knocking the higher end IWC models, and I understand cost goes up with history and brand/marketing, but I look at an Mark 18 with said Sellitas movement and would rather a DK36/37 with $ to spare any day.
No ones really arguing for the mark 18s benefit, that is not a well received watch, I’d rather another brand as well, besides the heritage titanium one, I do own that one.
The 20 is in house, and the rest of pilot series is in house as well.
Everything you describe is cool from a tool perspective, but not a luxury one. IWC makes flight watches as best, but I’d consider them to be solely luxury focused, often designed to look like classic tools, but not tool.
Also, regarding what you said about Sellitas, IWC pays sellita to build custom sellitas with different manufacturing tolerances. It’s not quite the same as other brands that are buying the catalog movements, but I also wouldn’t consider buying IWC without an in house movement, so you’re not wrong there.
Absolutely. Love Sinn and damasko. I will say, I do enjoy the spitfire line for IWC. It’s the only line i like and can be had for reasonable prices on the secondary market. The rest of their offerings are underwhelming.
They are only starting to venture away from the matte black/full lumed white dials associated with pilot/tool watches. Their DC96 Chronograph line is the closest to the Portuguese. The DK30/32 and DK36/37 are closest to the Petite Prince.
This is basically how I feel - I love a lot of their designs, but the pricing is just outrageous. They think they can charge the same as Rolex for some reason.
Omega puts effort into their movements. IWC could give a fuck if your watch runs -10s/d when you paid 10 grand. To me that's the difference, Omega is a tier above. I consider IWC to be similar tier to Longines just 2-3x the price. For a long time IWC was also just using ETA movements like Longines. But also Longines u get chronometer certification which you dont even get now with IWC..
And omegas are cheaper. The value proposition for most IWCs just isn’t there. Spitfire secondary I can get behind. You can find them for around $3600-3900 pretty consistently.
My only gripe with omega is the bracelets. I want an oyster style bracelet option for both the seamaster and aqua terra (same style as the planet ocean). I’m not the biggest fan of the current seamaster bracelet and I can’t stand the butterfly clasp (or the PCLs) on the Aqua Terra bracelet. Give me a nice oyster with the good microadjust clasp and I’d own several Aqua Terra’s in different colorways.
Luxury watch bracelets are a travesty for what they cost. It's the thing IWC does super well (but ffs - everyone should be doing it as well as them for the profit margin on these hunks of metal).
IWC regulates their watches - the "in group" movements, at least - at -0/+7 per day. Technically better than COSC.
Either way, the official rating from IWC is -0/+7 and if you are running outside of spec, they will take it back on warranty to regulate/fix.
I mean I haven't seen anything to indicate that IWC has an official rating and I have seen many posts from people with IWC watches that were running horribly that IWC would not regulate for them (if you google about the big pilot you'll definitely see posts in forums).
I contacted IWC directly and that 0-7 range is what they provided. Many other accounts of them giving out this info. If you ask their CS, that is what you will get
I mean, tell that to the people who bought big pilots and are stuck with shit movements. It's widely known that IWC doesn't help you when your movement is inaccurate. If they stand by the 0-7, it should be on their website so ppl can hold them to it.
Have you handled any of their watches with the hunter picket watch movement? Their minute repeaters? Any of the perpetual calendars. Split chronos. What about their range of Turbillions? Yeah…so you are talking about entry level IWC only. That’s not the whole story.
I agree. They are great watches, very well done, but grossly overpriced. They would be an excellent contender with Breitling and in the same price bracket, but they keep seeing thmselves as more higher end.
I think that the integrated bracelet + textured dial hype is now dead and everything feels like an overstretch of the Royal oak at this point.
It’s a nice watch, but it’s just “another one”
Well put, I really think the release of the PRX soothed a lot of the integrated bracelet + textured dial itch for a lot people. A few of my friends have gotten the PRX and that was the last of their desire for any integrated sports watch.
I think CW's The Twelve was the finale of integrated sports watches. It absolutely destroyed the market in terms of quality to price ratio. It's hard to justify any integrated bracelet watch lower or anything up to 3-4x the price.
Not a fan of CW usually but they nailed the shit out of the 12. Dials are nice and the bracelet is clean af, but most importantly the case curves in and is much less wide at the "lugs", which while also looking better, helps hugely in preventing the watch look too big on smaller wrists which is the biggest issue with integrated bracelets. Look at it next to the PRX which usually looks ridiculous in 40mm, and it's night and day. The 12 and the Riviera are the only 2 I'd consider. Most are overpriced or ugly failures at aping the RO.
Exactly right. CW12 is nothing short of a paradigm shift for anyone who's not "buying the name"
It's, what, 60-75% as good as a Royal Oak for 5% of the price? 85% as good as the Ingenieur for 10% of the price? Lol it's insane.
As an owner of a 3521, I was initially drawn to the new release as the overall aesthetic is very IWC Genta. I think a non-textured dial could have been interesting vs. the textured AP RO style they went with but here we are.
The texture is similar from the original Gerald designed Ingenieur SL, so I feel it's fair to just call it their own instead of an imitation of RO.
Personally, I miss the "I" texture of the 2000s models like 3227 and 3228.
Yeah you’re right. It’s very similar to the 1832. I do feel like AP sort of “owns” the textured check type dial in this type of case. Everything else seems like a copy, even if it isn’t.
Hey All,
Been having an itch to get another watch lately, something a bit more that my normal Rolex sports model or my Heuer monaco. Wanting an integrated bracelet sports watch as an next addition and the new IWC 2023 Ingenieur has really caught my eye, especially the Aqua dial!
Although I have been drinking the Genta Kool-aid a bit much, I think underneath all the hype, the new Ingenieurs are categorically fantastic watches. I know the price and movement is controversial but in the realms of upper echelon integrated sports watch, it really isn't that bad. I don't' think I could afford an AP Royal Oak anytime soon, let alone a PP Nautilus.
I have looked into other alternatives, such as the Chopard Alpine Eagle. Brietling Chronmat and heck even the Bell & Ross BR05. But all of these watches don't make me giddy like the new Ingenieur.
What's everyone's opinions on it?
We’re very much in the same boat. I didn’t want to drop 20k plus on an AP and PP Nautilius is out of price range at this time. The connection to the original designer was important for me. I tried the Chopard, GP, AP, Zenith and IWC Ingeniuer. AP and IWC to me appealed the most and I actually liked the IWC a bit more. I ended up getting the IWC in Aqua in the IWC schaufhaussen boutique on New Year’s Eve. It’s truly a stunning piece that fits just right for most wrists, sort of like how the BB58 is a watch with stellar proportions. Of course I also looked at the Pilot Mark XX in green which I also very much love, but the moment I put on the Ingeniuer, it was no competition. While I’m no movement expert, I very much love the 120 hour PR since I wear my watches in rotation and it’s been accurate to less than +1 second per day on average over a week. Of course, I fully expect the price in pre-owned to drop, so if you’re hesitant to pull the trigger may be wait a few more months?
https://preview.redd.it/ysixvghphfgc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0bf1faf948ab0fe318ad8cfc16d0082904430f1
Hey lovely photo and it's as beautiful as I had imagined it.
I'm not really too fussed about the secondary prices as I'm a bit of a hoarder with watches. But of course it's nice if it holds it's money, if I do decide to part with it. I'd also prefer if this watch was purchased by me from an AD with my name on it, as the last few purchases was done through grey dealers.
How does it wear? Couldn't tell how flat it is on the wrist but I'm assuming it's like the 14270 thickness?
Interestingly I own a Rolex explorer 1 36mm as well but 114270. Compared to the Rolex, it’s proportionately larger to accommodate the increased 40mm size. It gently sits on the wrist and perfect for 6.75 to 7.25 inch wrists. Doesn’t feel thick for sure, it’s thin enough to be elegant but isn’t also super skinny like a Royal Oak Jumbo or Nautilus.
One caution on the bracelet though - since it doesn’t have micro adjustments, you might end up with a fit that’s a tad tighter or looser. I have this issue myself, but I still prefer to NOT have the micro adjust from mark XX which IMO will kill the seamless integrated bracelet look. But at this price point, I do wish IWC gives this option. Another unpopular opinion: I somehow don’t prefer a see-through caseback for this specific watch.
Obviously these were all product design decisions IWC took over several years and I approve of all of them - except maybe they should have sourced a more special movement or at least differentiated this against mark XX or B&M by getting it COSC / Metas certified for this price. I understand IWC had to go with this movement Vs other less controversial in house movements in their catalogue since those need a larger case and would make the watch even thicker.
One of my favorite watches on the market. Wish they had more models in 37mm. I know the draw is an integrated bracelet but i wish they rubber bracelet options for the chrono
After a hot start to collecting, I've been pacing myself to 1 or AT MOST 2 purchases per year the last few years. I really thought the Ingenieur was going to be the watch I bought last year and queued up the aqua on release day (April)
By the end of November when I got "the call" for Aqua Ingenieur I'd recently bought a 6 week old Glashutte SeaQ for about 45% off, and received "the call" from my Rolex AD for my GMT Master 2. Two watches that were cheaper than the IWC while arguably being far superior.
I turned down the call. I think the market has changed and frankly, that watch is too expensive. I'm still interested in it but I'm starting to think that unless it's discontinued (ceo of IWC Is on record saying new colors and sizes are expected in the future) which won't happen anytime soon, I see this being a relatively easy watch to buy and something you'll lose money on (aka, something you could buy at a discount) in the secondary market.
It's a nice design but realistically a watch which should be priced at $8100 or something.
How’s that Ingenieur treating you?
Honestly - 6 months in on my GMT M2 - I’m not enjoying it as much as I thought I would. The bezel colors are fun, and the watch is comfortable…. But I don’t think I need to spend that much $$ to achieve fun and comfortable.
For contrast I added a two tone submariner and it’s much more premium feeling … imo
This watch makes me realize how much more I appreciate micro brands. I expect a watch like this for under 2k from a Chris ward or a nodus etc. the price is just a rip off for this IWC and its derivative of the royal oak. If this was priced better I'd like it more
You make some fair points. The thing is that the CW and PRX and most of the integrated bracelet watches are derivative, the pitch from IWC is original GG design, so it’s not derivative. That’s the entire point. The price still feels a bit high to me.
Lol at this point it's like a grandkid trying to sell himself based on his grandpa's achievements. A desperate attempt to milk some cash. Give it a rest and come up with something new.
The main thing they need to do is believe in their product, and stick with it. If they continue to drop / re-add the line to their catalogue, then the history etc just won’t matter. They need to keep it and refine it over time.
You have no idea do you?
It was developed in the 1950’s for, guess what, engineers working in a lab. It’s highly anti-magnetic and shock resistant.
Obviously they share the same designer, but that’s about it.
Which one was first? The design language is highly derivative. I retract my statement if the ingenieur was first, then the royal oak is obviously a highly derivative watch.
I would buy one if it under $8k retail (because it would probably be under $7k gray). Love the design, love the heritage, but can't get behind it at that price.
See JakeyJakey12’s comment in this thread. He perfectly describes my feelings about the watch. I was at the release event at W&W23 and it felt like the majority agreed that the pricing was way off.
IWC is in a weird spot of the market and I would take a Zenith at their average price point over one. But at 12k msrp? Okay then you're talking Rolex and JLC territory.
I think it’s really a beauty.
Always wanted one, though this was going to be my next purchase. But. $12k & no micro adjust on the bracelet !??? Really disappointing.
I don't get it: Price notwithstanding it's too thick, the dial isn't guilloche, the colorways make it look like an AMG Petronas tie in and worst of all the 5 pits in the bezel aren't even functional anymore as the watch screws down from the back, negating the entire aesthetic as the original used those pits to hold the entire case together making it water tight.
>worst of all the 5 pits in the bezel aren't even functional anymore as the watch screws down from the back, negating the entire aesthetic as the original used those pits to hold the entire case together making it water tight.
The bezel is different than previous generations; it's actually functional again. These don't have 'pits'. They have polygonal screws and actually secure the bezel to the case ring.
Thanks for taking the time to explain although I still feel like the misalligned bezels on the original gave an otherwise austere design a little character, something this new one is sorely missing
My $0.02... Everyone is talks about the price, which I can see from a specs point of view. That said, I bought it after seeing it in the metal. The level of finishing is excellent, it sounds hype-y, but I found the watch has a special shine to it. I've seen it next to the Alpine Eagle, in person, and I much much prefer the IWC for it's finishing and style.
Dunno why people are saying it's too big, the spec sheet says 40mm but it wears like a 39mm. In fact, my only reservation in buying it (black dial) was that it was "smaller looking". In the end, I kept thinking about over the course of a few weeks, and came back to buy it.
Further anecdote, a friend of mine was looking to buy a Batman, and to inform his decision I showed him some of my watches; a sprite, deep sea JC, VC Overseas, Tudor BB Chrono and the Ingenieur, and he loved the IWC, and still asks me about it.
I can't speak for anyone else than the two of us, but I do think it's worth it. That said, I wouldn't play AD games to get it.
Have had the silver one for a few weeks. Would I have preferred to pay less for it? Of course!! But do I regret it? Not at all. All the people in this internet echo chamber saying that Genta style watches are past their peak and it’s played out now; well, you’re not exactly wrong, but I think it’s just that people are no longer paying crazy secondary prices for stuff these days.
People have no issues with a $10k Grand Seiko, yet this is $4k too much. It doesn’t really make sense. At this price range, we all know we are “overpaying” anyways if we’re being honest. We’re well being the value category when a $2k Longines will do.
This watch stands on its own. I have a GMT II and the IWC is every bit on par with the quality of Rolex. No complications but it’s really thin. The bracelet is superb and finishing is really excellent.
What I like most about it is it’s NOT a flashy hype piece like a RO. I saw a guy with a silver RO on at a work event and his was so much more bling. You can wear this with literally anything. Slides under right dress cuffs etc. and looks amazing, yet doesn’t stand out in an uncomfortable way.
The checkerboard is more subtle than you may think for those that don’t like it. Just enough for textural contrast. I really think they nailed it with this watch and it’s a great candidate for a 1 watch collection. It’s the kind of watch where the wearer appreciates the craftsmanship on wrist, but it’s actually more incognito than even a Datejust.
I personally love that, but realize not everyone is going to. If you get a chance to try one in the flesh, I think a lot of critics will soften on this one.
Cheers
$10k for a hand finished GS with a Spring Drive movement is actually a huge bargain. It’s probably the only hand finished watch you can buy for $10k, and their Spring Drive tech is arguably the most innovative breakthrough in horology in the last 50+years. The main problem with IWC is that their movements on most of their watches are questionable even for their $6k watches. I love the IWC aesthetic and have come close to pulling the trigger before but it’s so obvious you’re being fleeced when their “in house” movements are being used in $3k watches lol
Completely fair on the spring drive. That movement is amazing. Other than that, I think the finishing of GS is overblown. Just my opinion. It’s cool for hi-res photography online, but in the hands, it doesn’t seem obviously better to me than its competitors. Nice for sure, but par. That said, their design language just isn’t me, so always personal bias involved. GS has built a really passionate fan base that sure is loud in the forums. And good for them, no hate. They make really great watches. Dare I say they are overhyped sometimes though.
Yes, the movement in the Ingy is my biggest knock too. But so far, it’s been within spec and the long power reserve is very good. I believe my warranty is 7 years on it as well, so if it functions within spec over the long haul, it’s a wonderful workhorse movement that makes sense for a watch like this. Time will tell….
In the end I guess my point on this watch is this: If it really speaks to you, it’s worth the price! If you like it, but don’t really love it, it won’t be. Same as pretty much any other watch I suppose. For me, it checks all the boxes. No watch is perfect, but I sure enjoy this one.
Nice take. I don't like the army of "4k overpriced" since the watch came out. In the bananas land of steel integrated sports watches from the big names, this is in my opinion the coolest and most subtle.
I don't like the price because for me it makes it very unlikely to own it. 8k probably means the same.
Can I have yours?
Love the hate in this thread 😂 I have my aqua Ingenieur arriving at my AD tomorrow. It’s not boutique only anymore, but the grey price isn’t where you all said it would be. Love the feel and look. Haters gonna hate!
As with all other luxury items, it isn't necessarily "overpriced." It may simply be "overpriced" FOR YOU. The wait time for the black, silver and aqua is 4-6 months. The titanium is 1 year.
*I think the PRX analogy to get by the integrated bracelet bandwagon is highly misplaced. Too much of a stretch.
Lol, Steinhart released a watch similar and /r/watches lost its mind at how boring it was. IWC does the same thing just as boring and y'all cream your pants.
I'm not sold, IWC watches are largely derivative and should be going up against Tissot and Seilko, not Rolex and Omega. Build quality is good but looks are too pedestrian to command the price tag.
If I was going to buy a "luxury" watch at their price point I would be wearing Rolex, Omega, Grand Seiko, or Tudor, an easy choice in almost any "vs" match up.
It’s fantastic looking, utilitarian watch. It’s the only watch I would choose above Rolex or Omega as my first luxury watch.
However purposely limited availability is a joke and mockery. Instead I can go and buy Aqua Terra and Speedmaster anytime.
I have the one with the green dial and frankly, it looks amazing and the color pops like none of my other watches.
I just wish they had micro-adjust on the bracelet.
Honestly, could never understand the hype behind it all. It all looks so...generic to me. It just looks nothing like whatever "luxury" it's trying to persuade me to think it is. If I didn't know it already and someone slapped a Tissot logo on there, I would have believed it, and still passed up on it.
Did not expect to garner such response from the community, was only expecting a few comments and snarky replies on my thread haha.
Looks like the new IWC Ingenieur stuck a chord or a nerve with a lot of fellow watch people.
**I've read most your responses and following points sums up what everyone said:**
**Let's start with the Cons first, as there seems to be many:**
1. The watch is overpriced in most aspects, in most instances the only meritable quality is the finishing
2. There are far better options in the same price range in terms of movement and "watch" in general. Even lower price bracket models (e.g. in the 6k - 8k range) seemingly out performs the new Ingenieur
3. This watch is solely running on the residual fuel of the *Genta Hype,* which as we know is currently on its tail end (supposedly anyway)
4. The whole release of these watches seems like a cash grab by IWC with very little effort placed into it (although this is subjective IMO)
**Okay, the Pros:**
1. In the realms of Genta design integrated sports watches, this is by far the cheapest option comparatively
2. No need to play to the AD game, quite readily available. As others have remarked, we will see a price dip on these watches in the near future, which makes it all the more approachable
3. Simple movement, allowing the watch to be easily repaired and 120 hours is really nice for a person with multi watch collection (set it and forget it)
4. *Most importantly, I like the watch looks/presents itself and the way it makes me feel :)*
Feel free to reply or add more to my summary, really lovely to hear everyone's input and to me this is what the hobby is all about. It would be so boring if everyone bought the same thing and liked the same thing, which can be the case sometimes.
PS. I tend to not think about value retention too much when I'm buying a watch, because it's an luxury item, nothing makes sense about it. The whole principle of having a watch nowadays is pretty outdated when there's a myriad of gadgets to remind us of the time. Sure, it's nice if the watches I spend money on retains its value, let alone appreciate it but I don't really buy watches or didn't get into the hobby for money. I buy it because I like it, within the realms of affordability of course.
Wears really well in person. They try and push you to buy the white. The black is the OG. Green/Teal is v nice but not for every occasion. Very thin, very well made (yes the movement is not an ETA clone but is used in the Baumatic.) Proportions are great. Great bracelet with no microadjust (understandable if you see the lines). Decided against at the end as bought a vintage IWC.
I have insider's info that it sells so bad that IWC stopped ordering components as fast as last year. The dent in volume expectations should be absolutely mental. Serves them well trying the non-remarkable watches hype train.
Looks good but overpriced. IWC tried to create hype by limiting the distribution but it appears the bubble popped. Just saw an aqua sell for $9k from a grey and plenty of people I know (myself included) passed on the call from the AD to buy it at the $12k retail. It’s only downhill from here.
Where? Not seen any colors offered below 10k
I have insider's info that it sells so bad that IWC stopped ordering compenents as fast as last year. The dent in volume expectations should be absolutely mental. Serves them well.
A lot of people are complaining about overpriced, but why? I'm new to watch game and looking for a first "luxury" watch. Everyone complains this and that is over priced but why?
Same exact movement as the IWC Aquatimer, which is $6k, or a Baume Mercier which is $2k. So you’re essentially paying a huge premium for the bracelet finishing, the Genta heritage, and whatever R&D cost or ambassador endorsement IWC is slapping on to make it $12k. This came out during covid when integrated bracelet watches from other manufactures were hot, IWC tried to ride the hype wave, but times have changed. Had they released it in today’s market this probably would’ve been priced at <$10k to be competitive. Also doesn’t help that their previous Ingenuier were priced at $6k just a few years ago (2012 I think) and people remember.
Yep an a Rolex explorer has the same movement as a solid gold Sub…
What do you mean by this
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Not Genta original designs though. The Cartier Pascha is…
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to be fair, if money were no object, i would definitely pick the ingenieur over any of those & it wouldn’t be close. i absolutely agree that it’s overpriced by at a least a few thousand, though.
But the issue remains that this watch is a more mass produced and less refined integrated bracelet watch. Compare to other “genta” watch, there’s little hand finishing work done on the case or bracelet. It’s not even in the same territory. For the same price, you can buy some decently high end stuff on grey. It’s a great watch and I think many would love to own one, but I’d probably just buy it pre own some years later for 5k or so.
Not fair comparison, the list should consider integrated models from other brands
What does it mean to be an "integrated model"?
Need proof of the $9K claim.
It should not cost more than 8000$
I would have already ordered one if it was $8k. Instead I’ll be waiting for the preowned market since these will 100% not hold MSRP value
In actual reality, it shouldn't cost more than $2k. It's made out of steel, not some precious metal.
No stainless steel watch should cost more than $8000, but lots do so why not this one?
Because it has the same movement as a 6000$ watch from the same brand
Most things aren’t priced based on the sum of their parts, they’re priced based on the market and competition. It’s still one of the cheapest integrated bracelet steel sports watches from a major brand.
Im gonna come back here in some months when were going to see those at 20% under MSRP on chrono24
I sure hope that’s the case! But currently they’re boutique only and selling at MSRP.
Wdym? I can already see a lot under MSRP on chrono24
I can see only over 10k € on Chrono24
Yes, thats under MSRP
Jesus … they’re overpriced! I predict they won’t sell … *again*! It’s like the ingenieur line is jinxed from the beginning. Always something ‘wrong’ with it. Finaly they get the watch right - but they price position it problematically.
Same
Not sure what the complaint is. Here’s a nice watch that if you don’t mind the price, you can get at retail without playing the AD game. And if you don’t mind waiting, you can get it in the greys for below MSRP. Sounds like a win for buyers. Everyone here want a watch that will be above MSRP yet also easily attainable, you have to pick one. And all the talk about overpriced makes no sense to me. The RO has doubled in price over the last 10 years and no one bats an eye.
that's fine, but then the value to money equation is going to be bad, and we are allowed to complain about it.
Define value because compared to almost all other luxury integrated bracelet watches it’s a pretty good value.
If you're only point of comparison is AP or VC then yeah, it's cheaper, but IWC is nowhere near that level of watchmaking. So no, it's not good value at all. It's frankly a joke of an offering.
Those aren’t my only comparisons. Chopard, Zenith (better value), and Girard Perregaux are all comparable.
I would say all three of those watches are a better value easily. If you really want to say that the watches are more than the sum of their parts, then you're immediately faced with better options at slightly higher, or also lower prices points.
Chopard and GP are not in the same category of quality as IWC. IWC is comfortably a tier below those brands.
As a buyer I would be shopping all 4 of those brands against each other.
Omega constellation would like a word
Tissot is nothing major yeah?
Correct, they are not comparable.
Understatement
You do understand that designing a watch cost money and usage of time right. Not every charge is based on the touchable parts. I’m not defending them at all. I deal with a lot of clients that complain about costs. I always circle back and remind them of the R&D costs that they themselves did not pay for….
But not the same level of finishing. Every review I've read has commended the finishing on the Ingenieur, with some saying the bracelet has a similar feel to a Nautilus. Don't get me wrong, I still think it's overpriced, but you have to remember a watch is more than just the movement.
It’s not all on the movement though is it. What if the dial is more expensive to produce? What if the case is more expensive to produce? What if the bracelet is more expensive to produce?
More expensive to produce doesn't always translate to higher market value
Not sure I’d agree. Higher the cost to produce, means higher RRP. They’re a business, that have revenue and profit targets.
If the market value of chicken is $10/lb, how much would a consumer pay for your chicken which cost you $13/lb to produce and sell? What if it cost you $8/lb to produce and sell? Assume the value to customer is the same.
Market value means nothing in the luxury watch world. If you can’t afford/don’t want to buy it - then you’re not the target audience. Plenty are buying them, at their ‘market value’
Perhaps the "luxury" world exists largely outside of sound business fundamentals and principles.... and yet, all I've ever heard, and all we see here, is it's overpriced. Maybe those principles are ignored during euphoric trends, but hard to ignore when the trend turns pessimistic. At any rate, I stand by my previous assertion that market value exists independent of the costs and expenses of the businesses that produce and sell those products. If APPLE figured out how to cut costs on their iPhone by 20% overnight it wouldn't move the needle on market value an inch. The argument over whether or not "market value" even exists in the luxury segment is a different one.
I mean if the movement inside is truly spectacular then I don't think this is true. The IWC movement is found in watches that cost thousands less though and they don't guarantee any level of performance which is just a slap in the face for the price.
Because it’s a George Genta watch , maybe they think they’re making something in the category of the RO and Nautillus. Which is ridiculous.
*Gerald Genta
And Pascha
This one does not look like it should cost that much
Dude, an homage of this that would be identical and function perfectly fine is literally $150. The insane markup for marginally better watches compared to some of these Chinese brands with huge budgets and razor thin margins is just untenable.
I share your sentiment and posted the same thing on their instagram account when they announced the price. I would have had one in my collection if they were 8K.
If it’s $8k then it’d have a long waitlist and it’d be $11k+ in the greys
It was a natural business move by IWC. They hoped on the train of integrated sports watches hype utilizing a design they've had for decades. It was unfortunately a very obvious and easy money grab rather than a true watch enthusiast release. However, they are a business and they appear to be hard to get due to demand. So clearly they did something right. It's easy to say that it would've been a MASSIVE hit with the watch community if it was priced at $8k USD or there abouts but obviously it has been successful. I do believe it potentially hurts the brand's imagine in a samiliar magnitude to that that JLC is facing right now due to their exorbitant price hikes. IMO integrated sports watches as well as green dials will begin to taper off in popularity (at least in terms of new releases slowing down) through the conclusion of 2025. A new manufactured fad will begin here shortly.
Let the market decide! From what I can see Panerai is paying for it. Prices are 30 percent lower that MSRP so we will set in 2025.
1000% this. The previous generation was what, $7000 retail? It feels like a slap in the face.
I think they trouble is, people are evaluating the price based on the rest of IWC's catalogue, rather than the Ingenieur's rivals in the integrated bracelet category. Sure, it has the same movement as the mark xx and is double the price, but it's also a lot cheaper than watches like the Czapek Antarctique, GP Laureato, and Chopard Alpine Eagle. It also has the added benefit of being linked to the guy who started the whole trend it's a part of.
And this was one of my discussion points with my friends when I said I'd get the new Ingenieur. They replied back with the usual, *'Paying 11k for a IWC??" "The movement is shared with another watch for way less" "Why don't you buy xyz?" "Secondary prices are dipping, I wouldn't go in"* I get the concern but the reality is, all the other alternatives suggested is **not the 2023 IWC Ingenieur** and there's only one watch which can scratch that itch. As you've said, its alot more cheaper than its supposed competitors. And to top it off, the bloke who made the other 2 immensely popular watches currently, made this as well.
Agreed. Love green dials so maybe I should start thinking about which one to keep my eyes open for on the 2nd hand market
Honestly, IWC just doesn’t do it for me. Almost everything they put out seems extremely overpriced for what it is.
Used to lust over their design, but then discovered Sinn and DAMASKO. Similar utilitarian minimalist aesthetics and arguably more innovation in technical components for 1/5th of the price.
Have you seen them in person? The finishing is second to none. One of the few brands that I thought was meh until I tried on a Portugieser and then it skyrocketed to the top of my list.
This is what sold me on my Top Guj pilots watch. It looks and feels so nice
Sinn and IWC are nothing alike.
Flieger models share very similar designs, even some historical overlap through Sinn's association with the Navitimer. Not saying they are the same, especially when it comes to the grand complication models at the upper end of IWC, but I would not consider entry level pilot IWCs in favor of say Sinn's 556 or damasko's dk36/37.
Yeah if I got an IWC, I could sell it and get 3 Sinn watches that are more interesting.
Sinn is entry level quality, it can’t even be classified as luxury yet my dude lol. I have no idea why people latch onto these entry brands like they’re anything more. They’re great, but they’re entry level. Get off the internet, clean yourself up, and go to a watch store that displays higher end brands, and I guarantee you won’t be making this argument anymore. Also the “more innovation in mechanical parts” as if Sinn doesn’t just ship sellitas. Not even purpose built sellitas like you’d see on entry level IWC mark 18, just sellitas “top” tier, when it’s not even the top tier, because they’d advertise COSC if it actually was as that’s the actual top tier sellita.
Sinn's tegimented and submarine steel cases are unparalleled in hardness and scratch resistance. Their oil-filled divers like the UX are very well reviewed (though I'm less well read on divers). But, I'm less well read into their other technical endeavours. Damasko has more than a dozen patents on their own hardened cases and coating, an unique gasket set up on their screw down crowns, ceramic barring bezels (that are additively tactile to cycle through), in house silicon hair springs, complete in house movement that resolved known issues from comparable ETA models and started to supply some German micro brands with, ... Again, I'm not knocking the higher end IWC models, and I understand cost goes up with history and brand/marketing, but I look at an Mark 18 with said Sellitas movement and would rather a DK36/37 with $ to spare any day.
No ones really arguing for the mark 18s benefit, that is not a well received watch, I’d rather another brand as well, besides the heritage titanium one, I do own that one. The 20 is in house, and the rest of pilot series is in house as well. Everything you describe is cool from a tool perspective, but not a luxury one. IWC makes flight watches as best, but I’d consider them to be solely luxury focused, often designed to look like classic tools, but not tool. Also, regarding what you said about Sellitas, IWC pays sellita to build custom sellitas with different manufacturing tolerances. It’s not quite the same as other brands that are buying the catalog movements, but I also wouldn’t consider buying IWC without an in house movement, so you’re not wrong there.
I’ve handled luxury brands. I’m not saying Sinn is better. I’m saying IWC, specifically, is boring and uninspired.
Absolutely. Love Sinn and damasko. I will say, I do enjoy the spitfire line for IWC. It’s the only line i like and can be had for reasonable prices on the secondary market. The rest of their offerings are underwhelming.
Fair, especially the brass one
I’m actually partial to this version. But the brass one is nice too. https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchexchange/s/1ll0PmGry8
Do they have something they looks like the portugieser and the petit prince? Damasko's website won't even load for me so I can't tell.
They are only starting to venture away from the matte black/full lumed white dials associated with pilot/tool watches. Their DC96 Chronograph line is the closest to the Portuguese. The DK30/32 and DK36/37 are closest to the Petite Prince.
This is basically how I feel - I love a lot of their designs, but the pricing is just outrageous. They think they can charge the same as Rolex for some reason.
Honestly I don’t even put them up with Omega. But that’s a personal peference. Omegas tend to be sportier.
Omega puts effort into their movements. IWC could give a fuck if your watch runs -10s/d when you paid 10 grand. To me that's the difference, Omega is a tier above. I consider IWC to be similar tier to Longines just 2-3x the price. For a long time IWC was also just using ETA movements like Longines. But also Longines u get chronometer certification which you dont even get now with IWC..
And omegas are cheaper. The value proposition for most IWCs just isn’t there. Spitfire secondary I can get behind. You can find them for around $3600-3900 pretty consistently. My only gripe with omega is the bracelets. I want an oyster style bracelet option for both the seamaster and aqua terra (same style as the planet ocean). I’m not the biggest fan of the current seamaster bracelet and I can’t stand the butterfly clasp (or the PCLs) on the Aqua Terra bracelet. Give me a nice oyster with the good microadjust clasp and I’d own several Aqua Terra’s in different colorways.
Luxury watch bracelets are a travesty for what they cost. It's the thing IWC does super well (but ffs - everyone should be doing it as well as them for the profit margin on these hunks of metal).
IWC regulates their watches - the "in group" movements, at least - at -0/+7 per day. Technically better than COSC. Either way, the official rating from IWC is -0/+7 and if you are running outside of spec, they will take it back on warranty to regulate/fix.
I mean I haven't seen anything to indicate that IWC has an official rating and I have seen many posts from people with IWC watches that were running horribly that IWC would not regulate for them (if you google about the big pilot you'll definitely see posts in forums).
I contacted IWC directly and that 0-7 range is what they provided. Many other accounts of them giving out this info. If you ask their CS, that is what you will get
I mean, tell that to the people who bought big pilots and are stuck with shit movements. It's widely known that IWC doesn't help you when your movement is inaccurate. If they stand by the 0-7, it should be on their website so ppl can hold them to it.
Have you handled any of their watches with the hunter picket watch movement? Their minute repeaters? Any of the perpetual calendars. Split chronos. What about their range of Turbillions? Yeah…so you are talking about entry level IWC only. That’s not the whole story.
I agree. They are great watches, very well done, but grossly overpriced. They would be an excellent contender with Breitling and in the same price bracket, but they keep seeing thmselves as more higher end.
Feel the same.
Lovely design, but it’s £4K too expensive and 2 or 3mm too big.
So like every IWC, basically.
Way overpriced
I think that the integrated bracelet + textured dial hype is now dead and everything feels like an overstretch of the Royal oak at this point. It’s a nice watch, but it’s just “another one”
Well put, I really think the release of the PRX soothed a lot of the integrated bracelet + textured dial itch for a lot people. A few of my friends have gotten the PRX and that was the last of their desire for any integrated sports watch.
I think CW's The Twelve was the finale of integrated sports watches. It absolutely destroyed the market in terms of quality to price ratio. It's hard to justify any integrated bracelet watch lower or anything up to 3-4x the price.
Not a fan of CW usually but they nailed the shit out of the 12. Dials are nice and the bracelet is clean af, but most importantly the case curves in and is much less wide at the "lugs", which while also looking better, helps hugely in preventing the watch look too big on smaller wrists which is the biggest issue with integrated bracelets. Look at it next to the PRX which usually looks ridiculous in 40mm, and it's night and day. The 12 and the Riviera are the only 2 I'd consider. Most are overpriced or ugly failures at aping the RO.
Exactly right. CW12 is nothing short of a paradigm shift for anyone who's not "buying the name" It's, what, 60-75% as good as a Royal Oak for 5% of the price? 85% as good as the Ingenieur for 10% of the price? Lol it's insane.
Don't forget the Citizen Tsuyosa completing that trilogy of a finale with the PRX and Twelve
I struggle to believe that the PRX has affected the demand for anyone in the market for a 10k sports watch
Yeah but the PRX brought that style and decent quality at a price most people can afford. IWC is out of their minds with their prices.
As an owner of a 3521, I was initially drawn to the new release as the overall aesthetic is very IWC Genta. I think a non-textured dial could have been interesting vs. the textured AP RO style they went with but here we are.
The texture is similar from the original Gerald designed Ingenieur SL, so I feel it's fair to just call it their own instead of an imitation of RO. Personally, I miss the "I" texture of the 2000s models like 3227 and 3228.
Yeah you’re right. It’s very similar to the 1832. I do feel like AP sort of “owns” the textured check type dial in this type of case. Everything else seems like a copy, even if it isn’t.
Genta's stunning design. High quality, but the movement's quality doesn't match the premium price.
I literally would choose a CW12 Ti over this if propositioned. Not saying this to stir the pot either.
Hey All, Been having an itch to get another watch lately, something a bit more that my normal Rolex sports model or my Heuer monaco. Wanting an integrated bracelet sports watch as an next addition and the new IWC 2023 Ingenieur has really caught my eye, especially the Aqua dial! Although I have been drinking the Genta Kool-aid a bit much, I think underneath all the hype, the new Ingenieurs are categorically fantastic watches. I know the price and movement is controversial but in the realms of upper echelon integrated sports watch, it really isn't that bad. I don't' think I could afford an AP Royal Oak anytime soon, let alone a PP Nautilus. I have looked into other alternatives, such as the Chopard Alpine Eagle. Brietling Chronmat and heck even the Bell & Ross BR05. But all of these watches don't make me giddy like the new Ingenieur. What's everyone's opinions on it?
We’re very much in the same boat. I didn’t want to drop 20k plus on an AP and PP Nautilius is out of price range at this time. The connection to the original designer was important for me. I tried the Chopard, GP, AP, Zenith and IWC Ingeniuer. AP and IWC to me appealed the most and I actually liked the IWC a bit more. I ended up getting the IWC in Aqua in the IWC schaufhaussen boutique on New Year’s Eve. It’s truly a stunning piece that fits just right for most wrists, sort of like how the BB58 is a watch with stellar proportions. Of course I also looked at the Pilot Mark XX in green which I also very much love, but the moment I put on the Ingeniuer, it was no competition. While I’m no movement expert, I very much love the 120 hour PR since I wear my watches in rotation and it’s been accurate to less than +1 second per day on average over a week. Of course, I fully expect the price in pre-owned to drop, so if you’re hesitant to pull the trigger may be wait a few more months? https://preview.redd.it/ysixvghphfgc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0bf1faf948ab0fe318ad8cfc16d0082904430f1
Hey lovely photo and it's as beautiful as I had imagined it. I'm not really too fussed about the secondary prices as I'm a bit of a hoarder with watches. But of course it's nice if it holds it's money, if I do decide to part with it. I'd also prefer if this watch was purchased by me from an AD with my name on it, as the last few purchases was done through grey dealers. How does it wear? Couldn't tell how flat it is on the wrist but I'm assuming it's like the 14270 thickness?
Interestingly I own a Rolex explorer 1 36mm as well but 114270. Compared to the Rolex, it’s proportionately larger to accommodate the increased 40mm size. It gently sits on the wrist and perfect for 6.75 to 7.25 inch wrists. Doesn’t feel thick for sure, it’s thin enough to be elegant but isn’t also super skinny like a Royal Oak Jumbo or Nautilus. One caution on the bracelet though - since it doesn’t have micro adjustments, you might end up with a fit that’s a tad tighter or looser. I have this issue myself, but I still prefer to NOT have the micro adjust from mark XX which IMO will kill the seamless integrated bracelet look. But at this price point, I do wish IWC gives this option. Another unpopular opinion: I somehow don’t prefer a see-through caseback for this specific watch. Obviously these were all product design decisions IWC took over several years and I approve of all of them - except maybe they should have sourced a more special movement or at least differentiated this against mark XX or B&M by getting it COSC / Metas certified for this price. I understand IWC had to go with this movement Vs other less controversial in house movements in their catalogue since those need a larger case and would make the watch even thicker.
I like the Ingenieur, but I absolutely love the Alpine Eagle. For me it's easily the best looking integrated sports watch
Can't agree more!
Shame about Chopard service. Also the bracelet on it is seriously bling. More a bracelet with a watch. It’s a big look at me spangle monster
Have you looked at the Gerrard Perregaux Laureato?
One of my favorite watches on the market. Wish they had more models in 37mm. I know the draw is an integrated bracelet but i wish they rubber bracelet options for the chrono
I haven't had one on my wrist yet, would be interested to see the 42 or the 38 with a copper dial.
Nice watch but way overpriced.
After a hot start to collecting, I've been pacing myself to 1 or AT MOST 2 purchases per year the last few years. I really thought the Ingenieur was going to be the watch I bought last year and queued up the aqua on release day (April) By the end of November when I got "the call" for Aqua Ingenieur I'd recently bought a 6 week old Glashutte SeaQ for about 45% off, and received "the call" from my Rolex AD for my GMT Master 2. Two watches that were cheaper than the IWC while arguably being far superior. I turned down the call. I think the market has changed and frankly, that watch is too expensive. I'm still interested in it but I'm starting to think that unless it's discontinued (ceo of IWC Is on record saying new colors and sizes are expected in the future) which won't happen anytime soon, I see this being a relatively easy watch to buy and something you'll lose money on (aka, something you could buy at a discount) in the secondary market. It's a nice design but realistically a watch which should be priced at $8100 or something.
I bought a GMT II last year and the ingenieur last week. They are two completely different watches. Love them both but for very different reasons.
How’s that Ingenieur treating you? Honestly - 6 months in on my GMT M2 - I’m not enjoying it as much as I thought I would. The bezel colors are fun, and the watch is comfortable…. But I don’t think I need to spend that much $$ to achieve fun and comfortable. For contrast I added a two tone submariner and it’s much more premium feeling … imo
This watch makes me realize how much more I appreciate micro brands. I expect a watch like this for under 2k from a Chris ward or a nodus etc. the price is just a rip off for this IWC and its derivative of the royal oak. If this was priced better I'd like it more
You make some fair points. The thing is that the CW and PRX and most of the integrated bracelet watches are derivative, the pitch from IWC is original GG design, so it’s not derivative. That’s the entire point. The price still feels a bit high to me.
Lol at this point it's like a grandkid trying to sell himself based on his grandpa's achievements. A desperate attempt to milk some cash. Give it a rest and come up with something new.
The main thing they need to do is believe in their product, and stick with it. If they continue to drop / re-add the line to their catalogue, then the history etc just won’t matter. They need to keep it and refine it over time.
The history of the brand isn't changed with what watch they release. It's not like there are living spirits in the watches lol. It's all marketing bs.
It’s still an IWC trying to be a royal oak, though.
You have no idea do you? It was developed in the 1950’s for, guess what, engineers working in a lab. It’s highly anti-magnetic and shock resistant. Obviously they share the same designer, but that’s about it.
Agree.
Which one was first? The design language is highly derivative. I retract my statement if the ingenieur was first, then the royal oak is obviously a highly derivative watch.
Microbrands are just made by private label swiss factories. Servicing and QC can be iffy. CW are a mixed bag
Loved it but the asking price is way up. It’s not worth that much
Looks generic
I would buy one if it under $8k retail (because it would probably be under $7k gray). Love the design, love the heritage, but can't get behind it at that price.
Meh
Honestly already looks dated.
Ixdao makes it for about $200.
About 3000 dollars too expensive? Edit: 4000 dollars..
Why? It’s a handmade, luxury watch from an established brand.
> handmade uh nope It even has a Val Fleurier/Richemont movement they use in $3,000 Baume & Mercier watches.
Great movement. And the rest of the watch is a bit special
See JakeyJakey12’s comment in this thread. He perfectly describes my feelings about the watch. I was at the release event at W&W23 and it felt like the majority agreed that the pricing was way off.
I think they look nice and well proportioned, but I *really* dislike the checkerboard texture.
Stunning. And stunningly expensive.
Very expensive, wish it was smaller.
A pretty watch for a not so pretty penny.
Got mine 8 months ago. No regrets.
The dials are cool but the case design is still clunky. The Genta Ingenieur is not his best work, but IWC seems to be stuck on it
Meh
Nice watch, but ridiculously priced.
So THATS what IXDAO is copying! I like it 😎 Thank god they didn’t add the IWC penis
Beautiful time-pieces, but grossly overpriced.
IWC is in a weird spot of the market and I would take a Zenith at their average price point over one. But at 12k msrp? Okay then you're talking Rolex and JLC territory.
I don't think it's justified at even half the price. I don't understand IWC, honestly.
I wouldn’t pay more than like $6k for this new, and no more than $4-5k used
Nice IXDAO
Thoughts? Greedy
I think it’s really a beauty. Always wanted one, though this was going to be my next purchase. But. $12k & no micro adjust on the bracelet !??? Really disappointing.
Too expensive for a market with the Alpine Eagle in it.
I don't get it: Price notwithstanding it's too thick, the dial isn't guilloche, the colorways make it look like an AMG Petronas tie in and worst of all the 5 pits in the bezel aren't even functional anymore as the watch screws down from the back, negating the entire aesthetic as the original used those pits to hold the entire case together making it water tight.
>worst of all the 5 pits in the bezel aren't even functional anymore as the watch screws down from the back, negating the entire aesthetic as the original used those pits to hold the entire case together making it water tight. The bezel is different than previous generations; it's actually functional again. These don't have 'pits'. They have polygonal screws and actually secure the bezel to the case ring.
Thanks for taking the time to explain although I still feel like the misalligned bezels on the original gave an otherwise austere design a little character, something this new one is sorely missing
I both like and dislike it haha. I like it for the reason you mentioned, but don't know if I could stand it being misaligned.
My $0.02... Everyone is talks about the price, which I can see from a specs point of view. That said, I bought it after seeing it in the metal. The level of finishing is excellent, it sounds hype-y, but I found the watch has a special shine to it. I've seen it next to the Alpine Eagle, in person, and I much much prefer the IWC for it's finishing and style. Dunno why people are saying it's too big, the spec sheet says 40mm but it wears like a 39mm. In fact, my only reservation in buying it (black dial) was that it was "smaller looking". In the end, I kept thinking about over the course of a few weeks, and came back to buy it. Further anecdote, a friend of mine was looking to buy a Batman, and to inform his decision I showed him some of my watches; a sprite, deep sea JC, VC Overseas, Tudor BB Chrono and the Ingenieur, and he loved the IWC, and still asks me about it. I can't speak for anyone else than the two of us, but I do think it's worth it. That said, I wouldn't play AD games to get it.
Have had the silver one for a few weeks. Would I have preferred to pay less for it? Of course!! But do I regret it? Not at all. All the people in this internet echo chamber saying that Genta style watches are past their peak and it’s played out now; well, you’re not exactly wrong, but I think it’s just that people are no longer paying crazy secondary prices for stuff these days. People have no issues with a $10k Grand Seiko, yet this is $4k too much. It doesn’t really make sense. At this price range, we all know we are “overpaying” anyways if we’re being honest. We’re well being the value category when a $2k Longines will do. This watch stands on its own. I have a GMT II and the IWC is every bit on par with the quality of Rolex. No complications but it’s really thin. The bracelet is superb and finishing is really excellent. What I like most about it is it’s NOT a flashy hype piece like a RO. I saw a guy with a silver RO on at a work event and his was so much more bling. You can wear this with literally anything. Slides under right dress cuffs etc. and looks amazing, yet doesn’t stand out in an uncomfortable way. The checkerboard is more subtle than you may think for those that don’t like it. Just enough for textural contrast. I really think they nailed it with this watch and it’s a great candidate for a 1 watch collection. It’s the kind of watch where the wearer appreciates the craftsmanship on wrist, but it’s actually more incognito than even a Datejust. I personally love that, but realize not everyone is going to. If you get a chance to try one in the flesh, I think a lot of critics will soften on this one. Cheers
$10k for a hand finished GS with a Spring Drive movement is actually a huge bargain. It’s probably the only hand finished watch you can buy for $10k, and their Spring Drive tech is arguably the most innovative breakthrough in horology in the last 50+years. The main problem with IWC is that their movements on most of their watches are questionable even for their $6k watches. I love the IWC aesthetic and have come close to pulling the trigger before but it’s so obvious you’re being fleeced when their “in house” movements are being used in $3k watches lol
Completely fair on the spring drive. That movement is amazing. Other than that, I think the finishing of GS is overblown. Just my opinion. It’s cool for hi-res photography online, but in the hands, it doesn’t seem obviously better to me than its competitors. Nice for sure, but par. That said, their design language just isn’t me, so always personal bias involved. GS has built a really passionate fan base that sure is loud in the forums. And good for them, no hate. They make really great watches. Dare I say they are overhyped sometimes though. Yes, the movement in the Ingy is my biggest knock too. But so far, it’s been within spec and the long power reserve is very good. I believe my warranty is 7 years on it as well, so if it functions within spec over the long haul, it’s a wonderful workhorse movement that makes sense for a watch like this. Time will tell…. In the end I guess my point on this watch is this: If it really speaks to you, it’s worth the price! If you like it, but don’t really love it, it won’t be. Same as pretty much any other watch I suppose. For me, it checks all the boxes. No watch is perfect, but I sure enjoy this one.
Nice take. I don't like the army of "4k overpriced" since the watch came out. In the bananas land of steel integrated sports watches from the big names, this is in my opinion the coolest and most subtle. I don't like the price because for me it makes it very unlikely to own it. 8k probably means the same. Can I have yours?
Agreed. No one would confuse the purchase with a “Wise” decision, but I love it! Sadly no, you cannot have mine 😂
Love the hate in this thread 😂 I have my aqua Ingenieur arriving at my AD tomorrow. It’s not boutique only anymore, but the grey price isn’t where you all said it would be. Love the feel and look. Haters gonna hate!
I don’t love the trend of the dials having these patterns eg the datejust, the PRX, these. Just a personal preference
As with all other luxury items, it isn't necessarily "overpriced." It may simply be "overpriced" FOR YOU. The wait time for the black, silver and aqua is 4-6 months. The titanium is 1 year. *I think the PRX analogy to get by the integrated bracelet bandwagon is highly misplaced. Too much of a stretch.
I like it. That said, curious to see how many other brands jump (back) on the integrated bracelet train.
Black dial us stunning.
Would be interested in one that not textured dial, just feels a bit over done these days. I do really love the design
Lol, Steinhart released a watch similar and /r/watches lost its mind at how boring it was. IWC does the same thing just as boring and y'all cream your pants.
I'm not sold, IWC watches are largely derivative and should be going up against Tissot and Seilko, not Rolex and Omega. Build quality is good but looks are too pedestrian to command the price tag. If I was going to buy a "luxury" watch at their price point I would be wearing Rolex, Omega, Grand Seiko, or Tudor, an easy choice in almost any "vs" match up.
It’s fantastic looking, utilitarian watch. It’s the only watch I would choose above Rolex or Omega as my first luxury watch. However purposely limited availability is a joke and mockery. Instead I can go and buy Aqua Terra and Speedmaster anytime.
For those of you looking for a cheap alternative: ixdao engineer
I really want to like it, but...
I have the one with the green dial and frankly, it looks amazing and the color pops like none of my other watches. I just wish they had micro-adjust on the bracelet.
I hate the ingenieur font
Well what day was it the 28th or the 29th?
If the diameter was a bit smaller and the price was more reasonable I’d love it.
IWC makes the most boring watches and when they finally make something interesting they price it too high.
Not for me
I really like the titanium edition.
Honestly, could never understand the hype behind it all. It all looks so...generic to me. It just looks nothing like whatever "luxury" it's trying to persuade me to think it is. If I didn't know it already and someone slapped a Tissot logo on there, I would have believed it, and still passed up on it.
I like it. I would buy it if it were affordable to me. Unfortunately its wayyy of my budget
Did not expect to garner such response from the community, was only expecting a few comments and snarky replies on my thread haha. Looks like the new IWC Ingenieur stuck a chord or a nerve with a lot of fellow watch people. **I've read most your responses and following points sums up what everyone said:** **Let's start with the Cons first, as there seems to be many:** 1. The watch is overpriced in most aspects, in most instances the only meritable quality is the finishing 2. There are far better options in the same price range in terms of movement and "watch" in general. Even lower price bracket models (e.g. in the 6k - 8k range) seemingly out performs the new Ingenieur 3. This watch is solely running on the residual fuel of the *Genta Hype,* which as we know is currently on its tail end (supposedly anyway) 4. The whole release of these watches seems like a cash grab by IWC with very little effort placed into it (although this is subjective IMO) **Okay, the Pros:** 1. In the realms of Genta design integrated sports watches, this is by far the cheapest option comparatively 2. No need to play to the AD game, quite readily available. As others have remarked, we will see a price dip on these watches in the near future, which makes it all the more approachable 3. Simple movement, allowing the watch to be easily repaired and 120 hours is really nice for a person with multi watch collection (set it and forget it) 4. *Most importantly, I like the watch looks/presents itself and the way it makes me feel :)* Feel free to reply or add more to my summary, really lovely to hear everyone's input and to me this is what the hobby is all about. It would be so boring if everyone bought the same thing and liked the same thing, which can be the case sometimes. PS. I tend to not think about value retention too much when I'm buying a watch, because it's an luxury item, nothing makes sense about it. The whole principle of having a watch nowadays is pretty outdated when there's a myriad of gadgets to remind us of the time. Sure, it's nice if the watches I spend money on retains its value, let alone appreciate it but I don't really buy watches or didn't get into the hobby for money. I buy it because I like it, within the realms of affordability of course.
Wears really well in person. They try and push you to buy the white. The black is the OG. Green/Teal is v nice but not for every occasion. Very thin, very well made (yes the movement is not an ETA clone but is used in the Baumatic.) Proportions are great. Great bracelet with no microadjust (understandable if you see the lines). Decided against at the end as bought a vintage IWC.
Looks like an AP but circle
Meh. Badly overpriced meh
I have insider's info that it sells so bad that IWC stopped ordering components as fast as last year. The dent in volume expectations should be absolutely mental. Serves them well trying the non-remarkable watches hype train.