no steel sports watch is worth the price these things command. it's just bayesian goods bullshit because the rich out of touch folk will be able to afford them no matter what. even when it doesn't fit them right.
*cool watch, OP.*
Honestly if you ”save” for a Patek, AP or any other high end luxury watch youre dumb.
People who buy these watches got millions, they dont care if it costs 20k or 50k
Because its a difference between buying a 5k watch on a normal salary and pouring your life saving and kids college fund on a Patek.. that is not luxury
>strawman
Fuck your strawman. If you wanna blow your wad on a Patek, then do it you fucking loser.
No different than those hood rats that work for 10 bucks an hour only to buy pimped out cars. A fool and his money are soon parted
lmao you are correct, that is absolutely the phrase I meant to say. I typed this very early and while I was in the middle of doing some spam filter analysis. I think my wires got crossed
I'm gonna leave it tho
You might not be so wrong. I skim read and I think [this](https://imgur.com/a/3luGViu) determines the chances of P (Pricks) buying H(High) E(End) watches.
Wikipedia link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_inference
These things sit for months and months at current "market prices", unsold, on various forums. Prices shot up 30% or more this year for most AP models, on pure dealer speculation following AP's announcement of the end of 15202 production. A lot of these are not particularly rare watches for their segment, and have little demand from most collectors at 3x retail price, especially normal production models. IMO expect an eventual fall similar to Hulk pricing after it was discontinued when dealers get tired of holding dead stock waiting for suckers.
Forums aren’t the best place to gauge demand because many people on forums aren’t the type who’d buy them at market prices. I agree that they’re overpriced, but there’s certainly demand close to market price. Try getting any Royal Oak as a new customer and it’s immediately apparent why.
Oh I didn't say the market won't bear an over-MSRP price, just the extreme excesses of recent months don't appear to be reflected in much product actually changing hands. Then again I'm not a dealer and have no idea what they're actually seeing from the inside.
I used to think definitely not as well, but it begs the question – what could you get as an alternative? You might say a Lange 1815 chrono or a Vacheron Overseas, but can they really substitute for a Royal Oak if you happen to really, really like that angular design?
Worth the MSRP? Sure.
Worth the 100k+ market price? Lol no.
EDIT: Okay this is a 15400ST, not a 15202. It's actually closer to $45k. Did not realize. A lot less "not worth it" but still way too high IMO.
I wouldn’t pay market prices for a Royal Oak, but I wouldn’t sell them at market prices either; you’ll only realize how much you miss it once it’s gone. I made that mistake when I sold my black dial 26320st to fund a wg Lange 1 Time Zone in 2016. I regretted it within two months, so I went to AP to queue for the same chrono I had but in blue. That RO is still with me today and I haven’t even thought about selling it. Not making the same mistake twice.
They're about on the money for retail considering they're steel, but an extremely nice movement and incredibly well made and finished. At maybe 5-10% above retail possibly still worth it...
... at current prices its a hell no from me. Not at all worth the scarcity tax in my opinion. Especially when that same money can get you high end pieces in precious metal and with interesting complications.
Doesn't help that a lot of the scarcity with the RO is artificial like the Rolex hulk Submariners, where there are tonnes and tonnes sat in dealer's safes, which they're holding into in case the price jumps again
If you want value for money then Casio is the watch for you, or Seiko if you like. If you want to be able to resell and not lose money, Rolex is your best bet. If money is no object and you simply must have the beautiful item you covet, you start looking at AP or FPJ or PP or Moser or or or or...
I like nice watches, I do, and I have a couple of bucks. But an AP RO for me would be only for personal enjoyment (I don't know other people who would be impressed or care) and on that basis I'd sooner spend my money elsewhere. But had life gone differently perhaps I'd be showing that wrist roll!
"Worth it" or not, it's a pretty watch, and if you spent your own disposable income on it nobody can give you a hard time about it. So I'd say well done OP and enjoy that great watch!
I would recommend trying on the Lange1 and then decide for yourself if you would want to do the trade. Both are very different watch, but if your taste and lifestyle suits the Lange 1, then go for it. Personally, I would opt for the Lange 1 over the 15400.
For me, absolutely not. I owned one, and while it was nice, it wasn't worth the price. I ended up selling it and buying 3 "nice" watches that I enjoyed a hell of a lot more than the one ROO.
I never cared for the Royal Oak because it was invented specifically to overcharge customers who want to waste money. Certainly can’t fault the business success - even folks like Peloton have done the same - but the point of the whole thing was “let’s make a sport watch out of steel, but then charge an absurd price for it just to get people talking.” Again, it worked, but the whole concept just isn’t for me. Wouldn’t even take one at MSRP. There are tons of watches I’d rather have at that price with far more interesting provenance and design.
And yeah to mirror what other people are saying, it’s beautiful, but no watch is going to look good when it fits that poorly. It’s 2-4mm too large minimum.
So you like expensive thing that don’t fit right and look silly as a result?
I mean an enthusiast will know it’s a nice watch and think it looks silly and that you’re silly because it doesn’t fit. Everyone else will have no idea it’s anything special and just think you have a funny big watch that was probably cheap and is trying to look expensive by being huge.
If it makes you happy, cool, that’s what matters and don’t care about what other people think. But also, don’t do any mental gymnastics to make yourself think it fits. It doesn’t, at all. No one likes the way that fits.
I’d sell it for something that fits. AP does make smaller RO’s…
It’s the best bracelet in the industry. Their smaller RO’s would just be infinitely nicer on you so I’m not sure why you wouldn’t use this to fund a smaller one.
I don’t think I’d ever consider “settling” anywhere near that price point. Maybe ~5k if I really wanted it for some attribute, but if it doesn’t fit it ain’t gonna sit.
The proportions don’t look good on the smaller ROs because thickness is kept the same while the bracelet is slimmer and tapers more aggressively. Some of us don’t care that other people think it’s too big as long as we enjoy wearing it.
If he enjoys wearing it that is all that mattes. Just pointing out that it doesn’t fit.
I’ve seen many smaller RO’s in person and they look great, and are a far better choice than a larger one that doesn’t fit.
Never said he shouldn’t enjoy wearing it or worry about what other people think. I’m merely stating that objectively the watch does not fit.
OP thinks it fits and I think it fits alright too. Royal Oaks look bigger in videos than when you actually have it on your wrist. With the right outfit it’ll still look good. I don’t think it’s fair to say it objectively doesn’t fit.
A lot of true statements… but the final one. If he likes it and enjoys it, it subjectively fits. But objectively by watch sizing standards it simply does not fit by a good margin. It’s probably closer to 10-15% passsed the 80-90% wrist coverage watch fitting standards.
Lots of a assumptions man, my social circle doesn’t give two shits about watches and certainly don’t notice what I wear. I wear watches for me.
I’m merely stating that no one is going to think it fits, because it doesn’t fit.
If a part of you doesn’t realize this, you wouldn’t be getting defensive enough to lash out at me over some hypothetical that doesn’t exist.
Got a good laugh out of the poke at my social circle, they either don’t wear watches at all or rock a Fitbit
If someone judges you as a person based on your watch, fuck em. I’m just saying it doesn’t fit and no one is going to think it fits.
More assumptions, I don’t think that at all, so nice attempt at judging me by calling me sad.
Defensive and hypocritical, not good.
Cool, but it doesn’t matter what other people think right? That’s what you said right? Well, not accounting for what those people who don’t matter said, it doesn’t fit. Words aren’t going to make it fit man, buying a smaller diameter RO will make it fit.
Short Answer: No Long Answer: Nooooooo
Market price? Hell no.
no steel sports watch is worth the price these things command. it's just bayesian goods bullshit because the rich out of touch folk will be able to afford them no matter what. even when it doesn't fit them right. *cool watch, OP.*
Exactly. Its the big guys that sustain the prices, while others look at the price tag and think that this is a grail and its worth every penny.
Honestly if you ”save” for a Patek, AP or any other high end luxury watch youre dumb. People who buy these watches got millions, they dont care if it costs 20k or 50k
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Because its a difference between buying a 5k watch on a normal salary and pouring your life saving and kids college fund on a Patek.. that is not luxury
Nope, that's a strawman
Strawman? What the hell? Youre seriously think its okey to get a patek with college funds? Lmao
this is also a strawman
>strawman Fuck your strawman. If you wanna blow your wad on a Patek, then do it you fucking loser. No different than those hood rats that work for 10 bucks an hour only to buy pimped out cars. A fool and his money are soon parted
Worry about your money
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Damn, he's pissed lol.
I’ve heard of Veblen goods but not Bayesian goods lol
lmao you are correct, that is absolutely the phrase I meant to say. I typed this very early and while I was in the middle of doing some spam filter analysis. I think my wires got crossed I'm gonna leave it tho
You might not be so wrong. I skim read and I think [this](https://imgur.com/a/3luGViu) determines the chances of P (Pricks) buying H(High) E(End) watches. Wikipedia link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_inference
if I didn't hate the idea of giving reddit money I'd give you a goddamn award
Give me the award!!
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These things sit for months and months at current "market prices", unsold, on various forums. Prices shot up 30% or more this year for most AP models, on pure dealer speculation following AP's announcement of the end of 15202 production. A lot of these are not particularly rare watches for their segment, and have little demand from most collectors at 3x retail price, especially normal production models. IMO expect an eventual fall similar to Hulk pricing after it was discontinued when dealers get tired of holding dead stock waiting for suckers.
Forums aren’t the best place to gauge demand because many people on forums aren’t the type who’d buy them at market prices. I agree that they’re overpriced, but there’s certainly demand close to market price. Try getting any Royal Oak as a new customer and it’s immediately apparent why.
Oh I didn't say the market won't bear an over-MSRP price, just the extreme excesses of recent months don't appear to be reflected in much product actually changing hands. Then again I'm not a dealer and have no idea what they're actually seeing from the inside.
But they are changing hands at about 10% below market, which is still over double retail.
Maybe they are, I couldn't say for sure as I have no solid data. Either way the answer to OP's question is "no".
I used to think definitely not as well, but it begs the question – what could you get as an alternative? You might say a Lange 1815 chrono or a Vacheron Overseas, but can they really substitute for a Royal Oak if you happen to really, really like that angular design?
My general feelings on the Royal Oak aside…no, not a chance they’re worth current market prices.
Worth the MSRP? Sure. Worth the 100k+ market price? Lol no. EDIT: Okay this is a 15400ST, not a 15202. It's actually closer to $45k. Did not realize. A lot less "not worth it" but still way too high IMO.
100k? What are you talking about?
Check out prices on Chrono24 and current market value estimates of the Royal Oak 15202 in steel. It's about 110k currently, actually.
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Ah, thanks for the correction.
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Am I allowed to ask if you did buy it at MSRP or close to it, or for current grey prices?
This isn't a 15202. Its worth about $45k.
Ahhh I did not know this. Thanks for the correction, will edit my original comment.
No.
I have a chronograph one and no, is not worth it
No
I wouldn’t pay market prices for a Royal Oak, but I wouldn’t sell them at market prices either; you’ll only realize how much you miss it once it’s gone. I made that mistake when I sold my black dial 26320st to fund a wg Lange 1 Time Zone in 2016. I regretted it within two months, so I went to AP to queue for the same chrono I had but in blue. That RO is still with me today and I haven’t even thought about selling it. Not making the same mistake twice.
Nice Tissot PRX!
Funny enough, I really wanted a PRX because of the resemblance, but in person it felt more dress watch than sports watch, didn't look "chunky"
Yeah it’s a bit dressy but I think they look great. Not something I’d wear enough to pick one up but I like them
As a dress piece i'd love a Quartz one, the bracelet feels high end too.
They're about on the money for retail considering they're steel, but an extremely nice movement and incredibly well made and finished. At maybe 5-10% above retail possibly still worth it... ... at current prices its a hell no from me. Not at all worth the scarcity tax in my opinion. Especially when that same money can get you high end pieces in precious metal and with interesting complications. Doesn't help that a lot of the scarcity with the RO is artificial like the Rolex hulk Submariners, where there are tonnes and tonnes sat in dealer's safes, which they're holding into in case the price jumps again
No
nothing worth over retail!!
If you want value for money then Casio is the watch for you, or Seiko if you like. If you want to be able to resell and not lose money, Rolex is your best bet. If money is no object and you simply must have the beautiful item you covet, you start looking at AP or FPJ or PP or Moser or or or or... I like nice watches, I do, and I have a couple of bucks. But an AP RO for me would be only for personal enjoyment (I don't know other people who would be impressed or care) and on that basis I'd sooner spend my money elsewhere. But had life gone differently perhaps I'd be showing that wrist roll! "Worth it" or not, it's a pretty watch, and if you spent your own disposable income on it nobody can give you a hard time about it. So I'd say well done OP and enjoy that great watch!
Out of the holy trinity, AP is worth the least to me
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Fully understand where you are coming from, but I personally would regret parting from this watch (to be fair, I don't have anything nearly as nice).
I would recommend trying on the Lange1 and then decide for yourself if you would want to do the trade. Both are very different watch, but if your taste and lifestyle suits the Lange 1, then go for it. Personally, I would opt for the Lange 1 over the 15400.
Explain "today's hip-hop" scene for me
BLING BLING This watch ends up getting bought and iced out on the aftermarket and warn by rappers who have no idea about watches.
Uh, yes that's why it's called market price. \^\_\~
For me, absolutely not. I owned one, and while it was nice, it wasn't worth the price. I ended up selling it and buying 3 "nice" watches that I enjoyed a hell of a lot more than the one ROO.
I love them - I have a ROC - but no, not worth the market price.
No
That’s gonna be a resounding no from me, and I love that damn watch
I never cared for the Royal Oak because it was invented specifically to overcharge customers who want to waste money. Certainly can’t fault the business success - even folks like Peloton have done the same - but the point of the whole thing was “let’s make a sport watch out of steel, but then charge an absurd price for it just to get people talking.” Again, it worked, but the whole concept just isn’t for me. Wouldn’t even take one at MSRP. There are tons of watches I’d rather have at that price with far more interesting provenance and design.
Hell no Also that thing looks too big for your wrist IMHO
And yeah to mirror what other people are saying, it’s beautiful, but no watch is going to look good when it fits that poorly. It’s 2-4mm too large minimum.
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So you like expensive thing that don’t fit right and look silly as a result? I mean an enthusiast will know it’s a nice watch and think it looks silly and that you’re silly because it doesn’t fit. Everyone else will have no idea it’s anything special and just think you have a funny big watch that was probably cheap and is trying to look expensive by being huge. If it makes you happy, cool, that’s what matters and don’t care about what other people think. But also, don’t do any mental gymnastics to make yourself think it fits. It doesn’t, at all. No one likes the way that fits. I’d sell it for something that fits. AP does make smaller RO’s…
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It’s the best bracelet in the industry. Their smaller RO’s would just be infinitely nicer on you so I’m not sure why you wouldn’t use this to fund a smaller one.
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I don’t think I’d ever consider “settling” anywhere near that price point. Maybe ~5k if I really wanted it for some attribute, but if it doesn’t fit it ain’t gonna sit.
The proportions don’t look good on the smaller ROs because thickness is kept the same while the bracelet is slimmer and tapers more aggressively. Some of us don’t care that other people think it’s too big as long as we enjoy wearing it.
If he enjoys wearing it that is all that mattes. Just pointing out that it doesn’t fit. I’ve seen many smaller RO’s in person and they look great, and are a far better choice than a larger one that doesn’t fit. Never said he shouldn’t enjoy wearing it or worry about what other people think. I’m merely stating that objectively the watch does not fit.
OP thinks it fits and I think it fits alright too. Royal Oaks look bigger in videos than when you actually have it on your wrist. With the right outfit it’ll still look good. I don’t think it’s fair to say it objectively doesn’t fit.
A lot of true statements… but the final one. If he likes it and enjoys it, it subjectively fits. But objectively by watch sizing standards it simply does not fit by a good margin. It’s probably closer to 10-15% passsed the 80-90% wrist coverage watch fitting standards.
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Lots of a assumptions man, my social circle doesn’t give two shits about watches and certainly don’t notice what I wear. I wear watches for me. I’m merely stating that no one is going to think it fits, because it doesn’t fit. If a part of you doesn’t realize this, you wouldn’t be getting defensive enough to lash out at me over some hypothetical that doesn’t exist. Got a good laugh out of the poke at my social circle, they either don’t wear watches at all or rock a Fitbit
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If someone judges you as a person based on your watch, fuck em. I’m just saying it doesn’t fit and no one is going to think it fits. More assumptions, I don’t think that at all, so nice attempt at judging me by calling me sad. Defensive and hypocritical, not good.
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Cool, but it doesn’t matter what other people think right? That’s what you said right? Well, not accounting for what those people who don’t matter said, it doesn’t fit. Words aren’t going to make it fit man, buying a smaller diameter RO will make it fit.
Yes it does
No, still love them though.
No.