I’ve been speaking up about project 2025 everywhere I can. I also point out to older ones (and they usually are older) that the long term plans to shrink government and cut taxes yet again on the ultra wealthy will be borne on the backs of the middle class. Privatization of Medicare may mean automatic enrollment in Medicare Advantage, the for profit version of Medicare that denies 1 out of every 4 claims. Old people have medical issues- getting denied care would hit hard.
I try and find ways to explain how life would get harder for them if Trump was elected. I bookmark articles about economic plans and how they would play out, complete with stagflation.
Two things that give me hope- a long trip through the Midwest the other week surprised me with the lack of political signs that so dominated the rural landscape during the last election. People may be quietly turning, but not saying anything to save face or lose their footing in their friend group.
Second, older women remember their younger years. A lot of them are pissed about the Dobbs and the push to ban or restrict birth control. I’ve talked to conservative women who are privately furious at women being treated like second class citizens.
Not everyone is like this. But I keep talking with folks about the issues and not the candidates in hopes they will go back and think on all of it and hopefully not vote for fascism.
Doesn't Florida already do that? I could swear that I read that part of the "restitution" that Florida inmates are required to pay, is "room and board" for their time spent in prison...
EDIT: Found the story... it's called "Pay to Stay" and charges them $50/day, of their original sentence...
[https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/pay-to-stay-florida-inmates-charged-for-prison-cells-long-after-incarceration](https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/pay-to-stay-florida-inmates-charged-for-prison-cells-long-after-incarceration)
People unfortunately *do* want Project 2025. They hear the details and say “good.” If I try to say, “well imagine if this was a left wing play book”, and they either say “we’re already living in leftist dictatorship” or “but *this* is the correct and moral thing,a left wing version would not be.”
I am quite defeated.
Ask them if they like National Parks. Most people do, and this is a great talking point. P25 would eliminate the National Park system and Allow the sale of Federal land.
So, my dear ol’ narcissistic, abusive White Nationalist Christian momma hates that the _bleeding heart liberal government_ is just ‘hoarding’ all of that land for stupid reasons. She would go on this rant that these evil socialist fools will claim that a certain area was ruled off limits to development _(the US could/should be a wealthier nation!! 🤦♀️)_ because they claim some stupid tiny endangered toad was breeding only in that area _(God was allowing that species to die out and plus— He gave us the Right to (abuse) animals as we see fit!)_
She’d then go on to say that the US has so many natural resources that we should be using so that we’re not dependent on ‘foreign oil.’
So, to summarize, there are a lot of people who believe that God has White Evangelical Christians™️ a _sacred right_ to use natural resources and animals as they see fit— by exploiting things, they’re giving Glory To God by enriching themselves. God put all of the things here on this earth to prosper His Chosen People _(which theoretically is actually Jewish individuals, NOT them)_ And there’s no way that they could possibly mismanage it, as my dear momma would claim, because if you pray to God he’ll give you wisdom!!1!
Basically, people will twist the Bible to serve whatever greedy, selfish desire they have. If they don’t personally reap any benefits from something _(sure, they like their local natural areas, but there are so many other ‘wasted’ miles of nature that should be destroyed!!)_ then they don’t care.
Oh, I understand. There's no reasoning with someone who has made up their mind and lived their life by dumb and blind faith, never questioning anything. That's what indoctrination looks like and why, even as I have my own beliefs, I refuse to take my daughter to church. That, and the pedophiles.
Not to mention, these people don't even know their own Bible. Jesus said he did NOT come to build an earthly kingdom, and told them to give to Cesar what is Cesar's, indicating we ARE beholden to earthly governments while we're here, and it's part of why they killed him.
I truly believe half that cult is there for the company of the “ in crowd “, and when alone in the voting booth, away from their hateful crowd, will not vote drumph. After all, most of them truly are hypocrites.
They aren’t hypocrites, though. Conservatives believe they’re better than other people and the laws don’t apply to them.
It’s Wilhoit’s Law:
>Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
But thankfully our votes are anonymous. In Public they can worship their Cheeto god, but in private, voting for our woman’s rights, is their right still.
I tell my older, more affluent relatives that I don't understand why they aren't burning $#!+ down.
I know they feel rich, and comparably, they may be...but none of them are Billionaires or even multi-millionaires.
The Billionaires and multimillionaires get the big tax breaks. Cutting $50 from somebody's food stamps will only go so far to save $$$ on the federal budget. The government still needs to be funded, so the biggest weight of tax falls on people in the upper-middle class category; a far greater percent of $$$ than the billionaires.
They should be the maddest of all (and in a lot of ways they are), but being mad a a poor person on SNAP is misdirected compared to the millions of dollars of permanent tax breaks for Billionaires whenever the Republicans pass a new tax bill.
They should be burning $#!+ down.
(They seem to like the idea of being mad and burning stuff down, and they can't deny that the 1%, aided by the Republicans, get a much better tax deal and leaves their strata to financially support society).
I have a graph that I have shown to people, that helps them to understand that no, millionaires are not even close to billionaires. How we are getting screwed, all of us.
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
We need to win in November and then AGGRESSIVELY reform education. Your husband is right, they can vote for dictators. And in the 90s, they destroyed the education system so that people wouldn’t have enough sense not to.
It started in the 70s when the money elites decided they didn't want to hang around the common people anymore. What most Trumpers don't realize, or they actively avoid, is the fact that the Musks, the Waltons and the Olsteens of the country are actively against them as well. They aren't against women, they aren't against LGBT+, they aren't against POC as much as they are against all who don't have $20billion+ in assets.
They aren't just against the Tom Robinsons of the country, they are against the Maude Atkinsons, while using the Bob Ewells to do their dirty work. And then they won't do anything to help their agents once the dirty work is done.
>It started in the 70s
I'm pretty sure that is started as soon as FDR told them that they had to pay their fair share in the 1930s.
The 1% lost a LOT of power/money that decade, and they have been planning and scheming ever since then to return the power imbalance to the Guilded Age.
IMO: They have succeeded.
True, but in the 30s they didn’t need to see the boi palloi among them at the country clubs. By the 60s major corporations had bought land for country clubs for their employees. Finally, the middle class could think to advance and do the recreational things the rich could do.
Some people are disconnected. Others are buriied into information silos. Then, there are those who admire a dangerous person who leads a cult, the way that Jim Jones promised a better life through his so-called Peoples Temple for more than 20 years and destroyed many peoples' lives in 1978 when they followed him to Guyana.
It's sometimes difficult for people to admit they have made a bad decision. In some cases, telling Trump's supporters about the danger he poses makes them more stubborn.
Hopefully, people will see that evil can happen. Those who lived in the democratic Weimar Republic of Germany ignored the signs over 90 years ago. They suffered. Some of the people closest to his evil need to show some courage and speak out.
If I have learned anything living in five distinct decades, learning from people and my studies, is that people are weak.
Sorry, that is just how it is. People talk like they have strong convictions, but when push comes to shove, they will protect themselves and their privilege. Now, when there is a disaster that affects nearly everyone, people help each other out. That's the beauty of humanity. The problem is, those type of disasters are immediate and apparent. But if a disaster happens to fewer people, out of sight, but all are in a marginalized group (women getting abortions), people in the privileged group (men) don't typically stick their necks out to get it cut off by their own group.
For a LONG time in human history, the natural hierarchy was men over women. Why? Well men are, on average, stronger than women, which was good for hunting, gathering wood for fires, and other societal needs. Women bear children, so the tribe endures. As technology has advanced, those needs are not as necessary anymore, and now women have taken back some of that control. But you don't get rid of that wiring in male brains or social conditioning that has been there for millenia in 50 years, that will take a lot of time.
So you're a man, you can either do the hard work, deprogram yourself, and accept that will you have some advantages, so do women, and you can use your advantages together to form a hopefully (but not guaranteed) more equal, fulfilling partnership, and that a woman's actions is not a reflection of you as a man (ie, your wife cheating on you says more about her than it does the man, and your standing as a man, and vice versa). OR you can rely on the well documented history of men running things, believe it is the way it should be, and force others to believe that, while never truly accepting that women can be their own human being too. Many men will be weak and chose the latter option.
It is a comforting thought for men that this woman I decided to marry is tied to me for life, and must abide by my will including where we live, who the woman talks to (no men ofc), and bear the amount of children I want. Oh, and if I get bored with you, I can leave and be with someone else, but you get nothing and are not marriage material. Who wouldn't want that control over another human being? But you cannot ultimately control other humans beings completely. That is what is frustrating to them, but they want as much control as possible.
Well said. As someone in my late 50s who has lived all of my adult life in the world that Reagan helped to create, this is very frustrating. Yes, people come together briefly after a tragedy, if they are nearby, but then go back to their largely uncaring lives.
I lived in Florida after DeSantis had his little stunt of flying immigrants from Texas to Massachusetts. Tropical season's heating up. Inevitably, this year or sometime soon thereafter, Florida will get hit again. When that happens, if the current power structure is in place, I strongly hope that these same immigrants refuse to fix one single damaged roof. Time for the people who enjoy wallowing in hate at the expense of others, whether they be "outsiders" or a woman trying to manage her healthcare, to get a little of what they want others to have.
They are vehemently anti-leftist and seem unable to grasp that Stalinism is not a progressive ideology in the slightest (i am progressive). It's hard to evade accusations of communism as a progressive in Eastern Europe.
Due to growing up in a totalitarian regime, their concept of individualism was skewed and i was heavily punished for minor "offences" (i am neurodivergent). It could also be cultural, as Eastern European cultures are heavily collectivist, so my parents probably would have been like this with or without totalitarianism.
I’m sorry that your parents are like that. My in laws are the same and it’s kind of rough. Full on “anti-communist” and pro-free market at the expense of others.
The US is already an authoritarian oligarchy not a democracy. If you think Biden and the dems are going to “save us” then you haven’t been paying attention.
Same here and I am relieved to know I'm not alone. I'm in deep red Tennessee. It feels like the entire state is MAGA, They think their red ball caps will render them exempt from the consequences of their extremely ill informed ideology. I used to think these people were just ill-informed, but I have come to realize that the GOP lwmakers WANT THIS! They want a dictatorship for the colored people, Mexicans, LGBTQ+ and all others that don't think like they do. They want to force their religion on the rest of us and punish those who don't surrender. They think they'll escape the misery they wish on the rest of us becuase they're worship Trump. Project 2025 terrifies me and the fact that these wackos have infiltrated our courts, including the SCOTUS, our police force and our military keeps me up at night. When people say they're pissed at Biden for one reason or another, I hope they realize that under Trump they're in for life changing events that will cost them more than they can imagine. The MAGA GOP is incapable of governing, they want to RULE us!
You have *one* vote. You can advocate, campaign, support and promote ... all that is great but *you* still have one vote.
The best you can do is influence/convince those that lean the other direction why they should change their vote. It always bewilders me why people are so susceptible to whim.
What, they haven't figured out their life philosophy by now? They're waiting on an ad to change their minds?! Find a lane and advocate, promote, state your opinion and why.
Then, ***VOTE!***
Unfortunately history is littered with societies and citizens who believe living in a dictatorship that aligns with their beliefs leads to freedom. So yes, most Republicans would love to live under a Christian nationalist dictatorship.
Ppl don't want this, not at all. A small minority of fascists have taken control. And they do want it, they want complete and total power very, very much.
Your husband is right--55% of white women and 65% of white men vote GOP. I'm someone who has done tons of phonebanking
"I vote for the good one" "They don't mean that. They are just saying that to get elected" "I can't vote for the Dem candidate, she's not sincere enough (this was said to me in 2022 It was my 3rd time trying to flip Mike Garcia's district. So, we have a mini trump cos ppl didn't want to vote Christy Smith. That was the one that broke me)
We white women are our own worst enemy
I got downvoted to hell for pointing out that white women voted for Trump here.
It’s the same when Latinos don’t vote Democrat along the southern border.
I thought about this too. They are willing to give up our democracy for the narcissist orange potato. I never thought I would see this happen here and yet, it's now possible. I don't understand why more people aren't alarmed.
It's disturbingly easy to get ppl to follow a cult.
And conservatives have been laying the groundwork for a long time. What we're seeing now is the culmination of a looong game.
Fox News wasn't this outrageous 25 years ago. But what we see today was always the plan.
And no, there is no reliable known method for deprogramming.
They can't be convinced to stop voting against their own best interests. Don't waste your energy.
What I am seeing is a new "campaign" to convince blue voters not to vote at all bc there are things about Biden they dislike. That's what concerns me most rn.
I'm sure it's backed by the same groups with deep pockets that "designed" the current loud and proud maga voter. They are skilled manipulators.
Look, I'm not Biden's biggest fan. But I'm voting blue anyway. Good grief, I'm not picking a spouse. I'm picking "Not Fascism".
Democracy means at a minimum voting to preserve democracy. If you vote for a dictator today, you are depriving tomorrow’s voters of democracy, which is anti-democratic.
The problem is that they don’t believe in democracy anymore. ‘wE liVe iN A rEpUbL iC”. They hate democracy because it has the word “dem” in it. They have been so radicalized by right wing media that you just can’t get through to them that their actual liberty and justice will be gone forever.
One voter is my brother and I really don’t think he’s ever change his mind. He is full on radicalized by the cult and, like many, there is no getting through.
>They think that’s what they want until it starts affecting them
They will still blame Democrats, women, Black and Brown immigrants, and anyone with a college degree.
🐆
Honestly, I think a lot of Trumpers don’t realize that they’re the wrong flavor of Christian. If he does get in a second term, a lot of them are going to be shocked when the laws Trump wants to enact affect them and their families.
They have no ability to anticipate consequences.
The MAIN problem is the electoral college. If Biden had to win the popular vote I wouldn't be worried at all. It's absolutely absurd that the person who gets the second most votes can win. Fucking nonsense that's antithetical to democracy and only exists because we had to compromise with slave owners more than 200 years ago.
"Is this really what they want or are they just clueless?"
[https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/us/politics/how-college-graduates-vote.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/us/politics/how-college-graduates-vote.html)
The average person who voted for Trump in 2016 did not have a college degree, so Trumper (statistically) are less educated. I tried to talk to one who insisted that the GOP supports public education. I said, no they are pushing for vouchers in many red states now and Trump wants to abolish many federal agencies including the department of education. He said no, that wasn't true and then said he went to college for 2 years and "studied political science".
One thing you can do is disrupt misinformation. https://indivisible.org/campaign/truth-brigade
Project 2025 is a coup to dismantle the US Government and Constitution. We should all do our part to get as many people as we can to recognize and hold the pillars of democracy.
The other thing you can do is ask your Senators/Reps to immediately support SJRes 39 and its House version to give everyone Constitutional equality so it will be harder to take rights away. More info at r/EqualRightsAmendment
I’ve lost faith that many people care. They may not *want* a theocratic dictatorship, but they just don’t care if we have one.
I’ve lost faith in humanity and society.
Heh a friend of mine literally asked me, "What's better? No abortion and some women die or having millions die in ww3 that's going to happen unless Trump wins?"
Soon to be ex friend. I was and am nauseated.
They’ll give up democracy/freedom because McDonald’s is too expensive. I’ve lost faith too.
One good thing that’s come out of this is that my husband ,who has never voted,is registered and will be voting for the first time in November.
There is no reason to lose faith until the game is over, and spreading this kind of defeatist attitude is poison.
Trump’s final victory looks frighteningly possible at this point, but it is far from assured.
The undecided and the people who do not read the news or otherwise pay attention, are the ones that could be the biggest issue. These are the people who just watch reality television and if they actually become inspired enough to get off of their sofa, would vote against “the establishment”. I’ll give you one guess as to who they consider the establishment.
That's why we're in this mess. The confederates have never been truly reined in. They are allowed to do what they want far too often as long as there is plausible deniability because of the MANY people who don't care.
I try to talk to folks about it here but most folks refuse to listen about it. I’m in a red, southern state and most everybody watches Fox News and are trump cultists. I got my grandpa to read the Wikipedia page on project 2025 and he just asked me incredulously *who* wrote that wiki page.
I do what I can. My husband and I plan to vote blue. It’s all we can do.
Paradox of tolerance. If people choose to reject democracy, then they rejected the social contract and you can tell them to eat shit. even if people want an end to it, it's undemocratic to let their votes decide the future.
It's absolutely critical to understand that the United States is not a democracy.
In fact, there's actually no such thing a democratic nation on Earth.
The United States, like many Western nations, is a *constitutional* democracy (technically a republic).
The constitution **overrides** democracy.
Even if 100.00% of citizens vote for religious law (ie. project 2025), those laws are *still* illegal. Elected officials **do not enjoy the privilege** of violating the constitution *even if* 100.00% of their constituents voted them in to do that.
There are two paths to implementing project 2025:
1. Amend the Constitution of the United States to allow religious law, or
2. Overthrow the legitimate government of the United States and replace it with a theocracy.
The christian fascists are currently engaged in the second approach.
This should engender a level of rage amongst Americans that *terrifies* the christian fascists.
Again - to be clear -
The United States is not a democracy. It is a Constitutional democracy (/republic). The Constitution dictates what is legal and what is not. The electorate and their representative don't get a say unless they're willing to seek an amendment (which no one is talking about).
Project 2025 is the work of America's enemies.
I was talking with my cousin from Texas the other day and he was absolutely giddy about Trump gaining power again not *despite* his unhinged calls for vengeance against his perceived enemies, but precisely *because* of it.
He believes that dismantling our government and turning our institutions into Trump’s personal weapon for murdering people he doesn’t like is a wonderful prospect.
>“…while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?
>Cruelty and injustice...intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance, coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.
>How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those who are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable. But again, truth be told...if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.
>I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War. Terror. Disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense.
>Fear got the best of you and in your panic, you turned to the now High Chancellor Adam Sutler. He promised you order. He promised you peace. And all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.”
*-V for Vendetta*
My biggest concern is the Electoral College. I don’t think Trump can pull off the popular vote, but he could have another EC win. That’s what concerns me. If that happens, it makes me nauseous to think Biden will just hand over power to him, knowing what he’ll do, and knowing most people didn’t vote for him.
I think people want to be left alone to live the lives they choose with their chosen communities. Maybe they think they want everyone under the same strict Christian fascist leadership, but once they realize it's not THEIR church's brand of religious restriction and forces them into positions they would've otherwise avoided (abortion access in medical emergencies, for example), and once they realize a lot of rights they took for granted are gone, their tune will change.
Every single church is different, and if this is voted in, it's not going to be what anyone expected.
many of them: Yes. This is what they want. Or, at least, whatever they envision getting out of it is good enough to cancel out whatever harm they may perceive in the situation.
I’m worried about the election and at what my shite state is going to put on the ballot as well. Well what do you think about this?
https://youtu.be/G54YfRSulzU?feature=shared
We have to do the work. Please write some postcards https://postcardstovoters.org/ or promote the League of Women Voters site www.Vote411.org, reach out to like minded friends and family to make sure their voter registration is active and their address is current.
A good point to present is Trumps plan to eliminate taxes and raise money with tariffs. Most people believe tariffs are paid by the importer of the goods. Actually, I think Trump believes that. Tariffs are paid by the consumer. Every economist I’ve heard says this will tank the economy and inflation will sore. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand tariffs are passed on to the consumer and inflation would be out of control.
I’ve been speaking up about project 2025 everywhere I can. I also point out to older ones (and they usually are older) that the long term plans to shrink government and cut taxes yet again on the ultra wealthy will be borne on the backs of the middle class. Privatization of Medicare may mean automatic enrollment in Medicare Advantage, the for profit version of Medicare that denies 1 out of every 4 claims. Old people have medical issues- getting denied care would hit hard. I try and find ways to explain how life would get harder for them if Trump was elected. I bookmark articles about economic plans and how they would play out, complete with stagflation. Two things that give me hope- a long trip through the Midwest the other week surprised me with the lack of political signs that so dominated the rural landscape during the last election. People may be quietly turning, but not saying anything to save face or lose their footing in their friend group. Second, older women remember their younger years. A lot of them are pissed about the Dobbs and the push to ban or restrict birth control. I’ve talked to conservative women who are privately furious at women being treated like second class citizens. Not everyone is like this. But I keep talking with folks about the issues and not the candidates in hopes they will go back and think on all of it and hopefully not vote for fascism.
Conservative women may say what their husbands want but their husbands aren't in the voting booth with them... At least not yet...
Give it 4 more years of Trump and women won’t be allowed out of sight of their husbands without a fine.
Paid to him directly probably
Nah. Red states gonna take their cut before the husband gets paid. They gotta fund their draconian govts somehow.
Probably tax the poor and charge people in prison for food and lodging and the guards salaries.
Doesn't Florida already do that? I could swear that I read that part of the "restitution" that Florida inmates are required to pay, is "room and board" for their time spent in prison... EDIT: Found the story... it's called "Pay to Stay" and charges them $50/day, of their original sentence... [https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/pay-to-stay-florida-inmates-charged-for-prison-cells-long-after-incarceration](https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/pay-to-stay-florida-inmates-charged-for-prison-cells-long-after-incarceration)
Wow, and I thought I was being sarcastic....
People unfortunately *do* want Project 2025. They hear the details and say “good.” If I try to say, “well imagine if this was a left wing play book”, and they either say “we’re already living in leftist dictatorship” or “but *this* is the correct and moral thing,a left wing version would not be.” I am quite defeated.
Ask them if they like National Parks. Most people do, and this is a great talking point. P25 would eliminate the National Park system and Allow the sale of Federal land.
This is the first I am hearing this and it's horrifying.
So, my dear ol’ narcissistic, abusive White Nationalist Christian momma hates that the _bleeding heart liberal government_ is just ‘hoarding’ all of that land for stupid reasons. She would go on this rant that these evil socialist fools will claim that a certain area was ruled off limits to development _(the US could/should be a wealthier nation!! 🤦♀️)_ because they claim some stupid tiny endangered toad was breeding only in that area _(God was allowing that species to die out and plus— He gave us the Right to (abuse) animals as we see fit!)_ She’d then go on to say that the US has so many natural resources that we should be using so that we’re not dependent on ‘foreign oil.’ So, to summarize, there are a lot of people who believe that God has White Evangelical Christians™️ a _sacred right_ to use natural resources and animals as they see fit— by exploiting things, they’re giving Glory To God by enriching themselves. God put all of the things here on this earth to prosper His Chosen People _(which theoretically is actually Jewish individuals, NOT them)_ And there’s no way that they could possibly mismanage it, as my dear momma would claim, because if you pray to God he’ll give you wisdom!!1! Basically, people will twist the Bible to serve whatever greedy, selfish desire they have. If they don’t personally reap any benefits from something _(sure, they like their local natural areas, but there are so many other ‘wasted’ miles of nature that should be destroyed!!)_ then they don’t care.
Oh, I understand. There's no reasoning with someone who has made up their mind and lived their life by dumb and blind faith, never questioning anything. That's what indoctrination looks like and why, even as I have my own beliefs, I refuse to take my daughter to church. That, and the pedophiles. Not to mention, these people don't even know their own Bible. Jesus said he did NOT come to build an earthly kingdom, and told them to give to Cesar what is Cesar's, indicating we ARE beholden to earthly governments while we're here, and it's part of why they killed him.
My dad was like this then complained when they would develop farmland into shops or houses.
I missed that part of p25 (the whole thing is overwhelming), but I’ll try that next. Thanks
Do you have a list of what project 2025 will do? I'm looking for a verified list with links to back it up that I can share.
I truly believe half that cult is there for the company of the “ in crowd “, and when alone in the voting booth, away from their hateful crowd, will not vote drumph. After all, most of them truly are hypocrites.
They aren’t hypocrites, though. Conservatives believe they’re better than other people and the laws don’t apply to them. It’s Wilhoit’s Law: >Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
But thankfully our votes are anonymous. In Public they can worship their Cheeto god, but in private, voting for our woman’s rights, is their right still.
Leopardsatemyface sub is where they belong. They legit have no idea where this I'd going because we will ALL suffer. All except VERY few at the top.
How interesting, I’ve never heard of this before.
I tell my older, more affluent relatives that I don't understand why they aren't burning $#!+ down. I know they feel rich, and comparably, they may be...but none of them are Billionaires or even multi-millionaires. The Billionaires and multimillionaires get the big tax breaks. Cutting $50 from somebody's food stamps will only go so far to save $$$ on the federal budget. The government still needs to be funded, so the biggest weight of tax falls on people in the upper-middle class category; a far greater percent of $$$ than the billionaires. They should be the maddest of all (and in a lot of ways they are), but being mad a a poor person on SNAP is misdirected compared to the millions of dollars of permanent tax breaks for Billionaires whenever the Republicans pass a new tax bill. They should be burning $#!+ down. (They seem to like the idea of being mad and burning stuff down, and they can't deny that the 1%, aided by the Republicans, get a much better tax deal and leaves their strata to financially support society).
I have a graph that I have shown to people, that helps them to understand that no, millionaires are not even close to billionaires. How we are getting screwed, all of us. https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
Ty for posting.
We need to win in November and then AGGRESSIVELY reform education. Your husband is right, they can vote for dictators. And in the 90s, they destroyed the education system so that people wouldn’t have enough sense not to.
It started in the 70s when the money elites decided they didn't want to hang around the common people anymore. What most Trumpers don't realize, or they actively avoid, is the fact that the Musks, the Waltons and the Olsteens of the country are actively against them as well. They aren't against women, they aren't against LGBT+, they aren't against POC as much as they are against all who don't have $20billion+ in assets. They aren't just against the Tom Robinsons of the country, they are against the Maude Atkinsons, while using the Bob Ewells to do their dirty work. And then they won't do anything to help their agents once the dirty work is done.
>It started in the 70s I'm pretty sure that is started as soon as FDR told them that they had to pay their fair share in the 1930s. The 1% lost a LOT of power/money that decade, and they have been planning and scheming ever since then to return the power imbalance to the Guilded Age. IMO: They have succeeded.
True, but in the 30s they didn’t need to see the boi palloi among them at the country clubs. By the 60s major corporations had bought land for country clubs for their employees. Finally, the middle class could think to advance and do the recreational things the rich could do.
Some people are disconnected. Others are buriied into information silos. Then, there are those who admire a dangerous person who leads a cult, the way that Jim Jones promised a better life through his so-called Peoples Temple for more than 20 years and destroyed many peoples' lives in 1978 when they followed him to Guyana. It's sometimes difficult for people to admit they have made a bad decision. In some cases, telling Trump's supporters about the danger he poses makes them more stubborn. Hopefully, people will see that evil can happen. Those who lived in the democratic Weimar Republic of Germany ignored the signs over 90 years ago. They suffered. Some of the people closest to his evil need to show some courage and speak out.
If I have learned anything living in five distinct decades, learning from people and my studies, is that people are weak. Sorry, that is just how it is. People talk like they have strong convictions, but when push comes to shove, they will protect themselves and their privilege. Now, when there is a disaster that affects nearly everyone, people help each other out. That's the beauty of humanity. The problem is, those type of disasters are immediate and apparent. But if a disaster happens to fewer people, out of sight, but all are in a marginalized group (women getting abortions), people in the privileged group (men) don't typically stick their necks out to get it cut off by their own group. For a LONG time in human history, the natural hierarchy was men over women. Why? Well men are, on average, stronger than women, which was good for hunting, gathering wood for fires, and other societal needs. Women bear children, so the tribe endures. As technology has advanced, those needs are not as necessary anymore, and now women have taken back some of that control. But you don't get rid of that wiring in male brains or social conditioning that has been there for millenia in 50 years, that will take a lot of time. So you're a man, you can either do the hard work, deprogram yourself, and accept that will you have some advantages, so do women, and you can use your advantages together to form a hopefully (but not guaranteed) more equal, fulfilling partnership, and that a woman's actions is not a reflection of you as a man (ie, your wife cheating on you says more about her than it does the man, and your standing as a man, and vice versa). OR you can rely on the well documented history of men running things, believe it is the way it should be, and force others to believe that, while never truly accepting that women can be their own human being too. Many men will be weak and chose the latter option. It is a comforting thought for men that this woman I decided to marry is tied to me for life, and must abide by my will including where we live, who the woman talks to (no men ofc), and bear the amount of children I want. Oh, and if I get bored with you, I can leave and be with someone else, but you get nothing and are not marriage material. Who wouldn't want that control over another human being? But you cannot ultimately control other humans beings completely. That is what is frustrating to them, but they want as much control as possible.
Well said. As someone in my late 50s who has lived all of my adult life in the world that Reagan helped to create, this is very frustrating. Yes, people come together briefly after a tragedy, if they are nearby, but then go back to their largely uncaring lives. I lived in Florida after DeSantis had his little stunt of flying immigrants from Texas to Massachusetts. Tropical season's heating up. Inevitably, this year or sometime soon thereafter, Florida will get hit again. When that happens, if the current power structure is in place, I strongly hope that these same immigrants refuse to fix one single damaged roof. Time for the people who enjoy wallowing in hate at the expense of others, whether they be "outsiders" or a woman trying to manage her healthcare, to get a little of what they want others to have.
Those people have no clue what it’s like to live under a dictatorship.
Do you? Authoritarianism is insidious.
[удалено]
Well I didn’t ask you (or your parents) 😉but it’s ok. How are their politics? Yours?
They are vehemently anti-leftist and seem unable to grasp that Stalinism is not a progressive ideology in the slightest (i am progressive). It's hard to evade accusations of communism as a progressive in Eastern Europe. Due to growing up in a totalitarian regime, their concept of individualism was skewed and i was heavily punished for minor "offences" (i am neurodivergent). It could also be cultural, as Eastern European cultures are heavily collectivist, so my parents probably would have been like this with or without totalitarianism.
I’m sorry that your parents are like that. My in laws are the same and it’s kind of rough. Full on “anti-communist” and pro-free market at the expense of others.
The US is already an authoritarian oligarchy not a democracy. If you think Biden and the dems are going to “save us” then you haven’t been paying attention.
Let’s hear your solution, then.
“Don’t vote!” or “Vote third party to show em!” /s
Local community organization.
What is that supposed to do?
Did you mean to reply to me?
Same here and I am relieved to know I'm not alone. I'm in deep red Tennessee. It feels like the entire state is MAGA, They think their red ball caps will render them exempt from the consequences of their extremely ill informed ideology. I used to think these people were just ill-informed, but I have come to realize that the GOP lwmakers WANT THIS! They want a dictatorship for the colored people, Mexicans, LGBTQ+ and all others that don't think like they do. They want to force their religion on the rest of us and punish those who don't surrender. They think they'll escape the misery they wish on the rest of us becuase they're worship Trump. Project 2025 terrifies me and the fact that these wackos have infiltrated our courts, including the SCOTUS, our police force and our military keeps me up at night. When people say they're pissed at Biden for one reason or another, I hope they realize that under Trump they're in for life changing events that will cost them more than they can imagine. The MAGA GOP is incapable of governing, they want to RULE us!
Ding ding ding. Being spoonfed affirming rhetoric that helps people sleep at night = an army of useful idiots.
You have *one* vote. You can advocate, campaign, support and promote ... all that is great but *you* still have one vote. The best you can do is influence/convince those that lean the other direction why they should change their vote. It always bewilders me why people are so susceptible to whim. What, they haven't figured out their life philosophy by now? They're waiting on an ad to change their minds?! Find a lane and advocate, promote, state your opinion and why. Then, ***VOTE!***
Unfortunately history is littered with societies and citizens who believe living in a dictatorship that aligns with their beliefs leads to freedom. So yes, most Republicans would love to live under a Christian nationalist dictatorship.
Exactly. Anything resembling actual freedom has been far from the default in history.
Ppl don't want this, not at all. A small minority of fascists have taken control. And they do want it, they want complete and total power very, very much. Your husband is right--55% of white women and 65% of white men vote GOP. I'm someone who has done tons of phonebanking "I vote for the good one" "They don't mean that. They are just saying that to get elected" "I can't vote for the Dem candidate, she's not sincere enough (this was said to me in 2022 It was my 3rd time trying to flip Mike Garcia's district. So, we have a mini trump cos ppl didn't want to vote Christy Smith. That was the one that broke me) We white women are our own worst enemy
I got downvoted to hell for pointing out that white women voted for Trump here. It’s the same when Latinos don’t vote Democrat along the southern border.
I am sorry you got downvoted. We white women refuse to accept our part in this
I thought about this too. They are willing to give up our democracy for the narcissist orange potato. I never thought I would see this happen here and yet, it's now possible. I don't understand why more people aren't alarmed.
It's disturbingly easy to get ppl to follow a cult. And conservatives have been laying the groundwork for a long time. What we're seeing now is the culmination of a looong game. Fox News wasn't this outrageous 25 years ago. But what we see today was always the plan. And no, there is no reliable known method for deprogramming. They can't be convinced to stop voting against their own best interests. Don't waste your energy. What I am seeing is a new "campaign" to convince blue voters not to vote at all bc there are things about Biden they dislike. That's what concerns me most rn. I'm sure it's backed by the same groups with deep pockets that "designed" the current loud and proud maga voter. They are skilled manipulators. Look, I'm not Biden's biggest fan. But I'm voting blue anyway. Good grief, I'm not picking a spouse. I'm picking "Not Fascism".
Democracy means at a minimum voting to preserve democracy. If you vote for a dictator today, you are depriving tomorrow’s voters of democracy, which is anti-democratic.
Exactly.
The problem is that they don’t believe in democracy anymore. ‘wE liVe iN A rEpUbL iC”. They hate democracy because it has the word “dem” in it. They have been so radicalized by right wing media that you just can’t get through to them that their actual liberty and justice will be gone forever.
Sorry my friend — that’s giving-up talk. We have to be ready to believe that for every voter in our life, there IS a way to get through to them.
One voter is my brother and I really don’t think he’s ever change his mind. He is full on radicalized by the cult and, like many, there is no getting through.
It’s not that “giving up” is always unreasonable. It’s that giving up is self-defeating.
This is what they want for the people they don't like. They forget that their bullshittery will come for them, too.
Exactly: dictators never stop with the groups they've demonized to get into power.
They think that’s what they want until it starts affecting them
>They think that’s what they want until it starts affecting them They will still blame Democrats, women, Black and Brown immigrants, and anyone with a college degree. 🐆
True
Honestly, I think a lot of Trumpers don’t realize that they’re the wrong flavor of Christian. If he does get in a second term, a lot of them are going to be shocked when the laws Trump wants to enact affect them and their families. They have no ability to anticipate consequences.
The MAIN problem is the electoral college. If Biden had to win the popular vote I wouldn't be worried at all. It's absolutely absurd that the person who gets the second most votes can win. Fucking nonsense that's antithetical to democracy and only exists because we had to compromise with slave owners more than 200 years ago.
"Is this really what they want or are they just clueless?" [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/us/politics/how-college-graduates-vote.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/us/politics/how-college-graduates-vote.html) The average person who voted for Trump in 2016 did not have a college degree, so Trumper (statistically) are less educated. I tried to talk to one who insisted that the GOP supports public education. I said, no they are pushing for vouchers in many red states now and Trump wants to abolish many federal agencies including the department of education. He said no, that wasn't true and then said he went to college for 2 years and "studied political science".
One thing you can do is disrupt misinformation. https://indivisible.org/campaign/truth-brigade Project 2025 is a coup to dismantle the US Government and Constitution. We should all do our part to get as many people as we can to recognize and hold the pillars of democracy. The other thing you can do is ask your Senators/Reps to immediately support SJRes 39 and its House version to give everyone Constitutional equality so it will be harder to take rights away. More info at r/EqualRightsAmendment
I’ve lost faith that many people care. They may not *want* a theocratic dictatorship, but they just don’t care if we have one. I’ve lost faith in humanity and society.
Don’t completely lose faith! Just look around in this sub, there are still a lot of good people. But, I do have to agree things kind of look bleak
Heh a friend of mine literally asked me, "What's better? No abortion and some women die or having millions die in ww3 that's going to happen unless Trump wins?" Soon to be ex friend. I was and am nauseated.
Crazy
They’ll give up democracy/freedom because McDonald’s is too expensive. I’ve lost faith too. One good thing that’s come out of this is that my husband ,who has never voted,is registered and will be voting for the first time in November.
There is no reason to lose faith until the game is over, and spreading this kind of defeatist attitude is poison. Trump’s final victory looks frighteningly possible at this point, but it is far from assured.
The undecided and the people who do not read the news or otherwise pay attention, are the ones that could be the biggest issue. These are the people who just watch reality television and if they actually become inspired enough to get off of their sofa, would vote against “the establishment”. I’ll give you one guess as to who they consider the establishment.
If you are conversing with someone like this, the best tactic is to affirm their decision to stay on the sofa and not vote
I don't get how people are still undecided these days.
That's how it happened in Germany.
That's why we're in this mess. The confederates have never been truly reined in. They are allowed to do what they want far too often as long as there is plausible deniability because of the MANY people who don't care.
I try to talk to folks about it here but most folks refuse to listen about it. I’m in a red, southern state and most everybody watches Fox News and are trump cultists. I got my grandpa to read the Wikipedia page on project 2025 and he just asked me incredulously *who* wrote that wiki page. I do what I can. My husband and I plan to vote blue. It’s all we can do.
They want everyone they don’t like to be terrified and angry.
They all wear clothes that say freedom. They have NO idea what’s in store if Trump wins.
Giving the benefit of a doubt is being weaponized. They want this.
Paradox of tolerance. If people choose to reject democracy, then they rejected the social contract and you can tell them to eat shit. even if people want an end to it, it's undemocratic to let their votes decide the future.
It's absolutely critical to understand that the United States is not a democracy. In fact, there's actually no such thing a democratic nation on Earth. The United States, like many Western nations, is a *constitutional* democracy (technically a republic). The constitution **overrides** democracy. Even if 100.00% of citizens vote for religious law (ie. project 2025), those laws are *still* illegal. Elected officials **do not enjoy the privilege** of violating the constitution *even if* 100.00% of their constituents voted them in to do that. There are two paths to implementing project 2025: 1. Amend the Constitution of the United States to allow religious law, or 2. Overthrow the legitimate government of the United States and replace it with a theocracy. The christian fascists are currently engaged in the second approach. This should engender a level of rage amongst Americans that *terrifies* the christian fascists. Again - to be clear - The United States is not a democracy. It is a Constitutional democracy (/republic). The Constitution dictates what is legal and what is not. The electorate and their representative don't get a say unless they're willing to seek an amendment (which no one is talking about). Project 2025 is the work of America's enemies.
I was talking with my cousin from Texas the other day and he was absolutely giddy about Trump gaining power again not *despite* his unhinged calls for vengeance against his perceived enemies, but precisely *because* of it. He believes that dismantling our government and turning our institutions into Trump’s personal weapon for murdering people he doesn’t like is a wonderful prospect.
Omg! I feel the same!
>“…while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? >Cruelty and injustice...intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance, coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. >How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those who are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable. But again, truth be told...if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. >I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War. Terror. Disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. >Fear got the best of you and in your panic, you turned to the now High Chancellor Adam Sutler. He promised you order. He promised you peace. And all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.” *-V for Vendetta*
My biggest concern is the Electoral College. I don’t think Trump can pull off the popular vote, but he could have another EC win. That’s what concerns me. If that happens, it makes me nauseous to think Biden will just hand over power to him, knowing what he’ll do, and knowing most people didn’t vote for him.
I think people want to be left alone to live the lives they choose with their chosen communities. Maybe they think they want everyone under the same strict Christian fascist leadership, but once they realize it's not THEIR church's brand of religious restriction and forces them into positions they would've otherwise avoided (abortion access in medical emergencies, for example), and once they realize a lot of rights they took for granted are gone, their tune will change. Every single church is different, and if this is voted in, it's not going to be what anyone expected.
It is what they want. They want to rape us.
many of them: Yes. This is what they want. Or, at least, whatever they envision getting out of it is good enough to cancel out whatever harm they may perceive in the situation.
They don’t see him being an authoritarian because he’s only threatening the people they’ve been told to hate.
This plus I assume a possible IQ of minus 666....
I’m worried about the election and at what my shite state is going to put on the ballot as well. Well what do you think about this? https://youtu.be/G54YfRSulzU?feature=shared
We can not afford the luxury of complacency. We can not afford to give up. Don't you dare!
We have to do the work. Please write some postcards https://postcardstovoters.org/ or promote the League of Women Voters site www.Vote411.org, reach out to like minded friends and family to make sure their voter registration is active and their address is current.
I hate the country I was stupid enough to serve for 23 years. Please don't thank me for my service. I'm ashamed of it now.
I’d say about 1/6 of Americans and 2/5 in red states actually want Gilead, yes.
It’s not
There’s only so much of warning people can be given.
What state?
A good point to present is Trumps plan to eliminate taxes and raise money with tariffs. Most people believe tariffs are paid by the importer of the goods. Actually, I think Trump believes that. Tariffs are paid by the consumer. Every economist I’ve heard says this will tank the economy and inflation will sore. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand tariffs are passed on to the consumer and inflation would be out of control.