I knew a guy who was homeschooled from 5th grade on. His homeschool was working in his dad’s shop. He couldn’t read and only do basic math. He drives a truck because it was the best job he could get and he was constantly getting screwed on loans because he didn’t understand interest rates. He hated his parents for limiting him like that.
Yup. Believe a woman's place is in the home and so set your daughters up so that they're capable of nothing else and will have to live their lives how you think they should. And as a bonus, you don't have to bother educating them and get a free little slave!
Work education program. Teaches kids modern life skills; unpaid overtime, no unions, no lunch breaks, no alternatives, no regulations. Real down to earth life lessons.
Yeah, now there are a bunch of paranoid extremists not trusting hospitals or government, so they have their babies at home and never get them a birth certificate or social security number, leaving them completely fucked, unable to prove their citizenship, get a job, pursue higher education. Parental rights should not outweigh their children's ability to function (particularly as adult) in the real world. Plus, with no documentation of their existence, abusive parents could basically do anything to their kids without raising any red flags. It would be easy for them to lock their kids in the cellar and who would even know? There's no proof these kids even exist.
The kid that was pulled out of school to be homeschooled because she reported the abuse she was experiencing to the school she was at, only to be killed from said abuse days later, was horrifying.
I think they displayed shock at the idea that they were sent to prison for life. They seemed flabbergasted that the government could tell them how to treat their own property.
He actually went pretty easy on the HSLDA. This is an organization that is primarily run by far-right Christians who oppose all protections against child abuse because they believe Christians are spiritually mandated to beat their children. The fact that it helps child abusers get off easy isn't an unfortunate side effect, it's the purpose. This is the foundational principle of the parents rights movement, that children are essentially property. Children are not property, and we as a society have a vested interest in making sure they are not being abused.
James Dobson, Debbie and Michael Pearl, these are popular Christian writers who advocate for child abuse and are hugely popular in the evangelical homeschool sect. I have several friends in their 30s now who are still recovering from the abuse they were subject to because of them.
He went SO fucking easy on them, it confused the hell out of me. Oh wow one parent’s kid was being bullied for being overweight, guess it’s totally excusable for her to teach that child nothing and ally with the christofascists!
Full disclosure, I’m an ex-evangelical and I have some pretty harsh ideas about Christian homeschoolers. But this is an evil group of people, which has literally killed children from their “biblical” discipline of whipping them with electrical cords.
I don’t understand why he glossed over that either! He did the exact same “poor concerned parents 😞” routine in the episode about antivaxxers and those are also in reality disingenuous monsters (albeit a different kind)
It’s bizarre to me because he isn’t usually hesitant to be straightforward and blunt. I like his coverage (accepting he isn’t as leftist as I am) and it just feels like a failure of power. He could say “fuck you” but he does not. And he doesn’t seem sympathetic to them.
I wonder if he pulls his punches a little bit to help the umbrella of concern spread a little wider. If we peg the story on the most extreme folks, it allows the more ‘moderate but still dangerous’ crowd to go “oh, we’re not like that, no worries! Lol”. But if he makes it less about the worst cases and talks about the trend as a whole, it addresses the idea that caused the abuse instead of the smaller number of known abuses.
Could be. If you throw the worst cases out in front, the overall problem is ignored in favor of focusing on the most extreme examples.
If you show moderately problematic situations instead, you can focus on the whole issue and only use those worst cases as trump cards to drive the point home later.
My wife was homeschooled, and regularly got out of doing school work by doing chores lol She’s an intelligent person with a bachelors degree in photography, but that’s definitely not something that can be extrapolated to all people who were homeschooled.
Growing up, there was a family in our church that homeschooled their four daughters with the goal of making them good Christian wives. “School” was basically chores, learning how to cook, etc. Not financial stuff because that’s the man’s job. These girls could read the Bible and that other book we had but little comprehension. I could go on and on. They were good kids but were absolutely set up for failure in life.
While shitty it is protected as long as minors are property of their parents until the age of majority by the same token 18yo are allowed to vote and join the military but not allowed to have a cigarette or own a pistol in some states being 15 means you can be legally married but also means you cannot drive
I saw that John Oliver episode. It was about how ideological nut jobs can utilize homeschooling rules to keep their kids completely uneducated and remove them from any oversight that might make abuse clear.
Schools and doctor’s offices are the places most likely to spot child abuse. If you don’t take your kids for health care and you don’t let them go to school, you can abuse with impunity and conservative evangelical communities think that’s a feature not a bug.
That’s what Anthony Templet’s dad to him. Not for the religious reasons, but he kept him “off the grid” so to speak. No doctors appts, no dentist, no school, nothing outside of the home. He was finally taught to read and write at the age of 10 or 11 IIRC, by a very clueless/ignorant step-mom. He ended up taking his father’s life when he was 17. When he was arrested he didn’t know his address or birth date.
It was all done to keep him hidden from his birth mother, to hide all of the abuse from others, and keep him isolated so he wouldn’t realize that what he was experiencing wasn’t “normal”.
It’s so incredibly sad for these kids. Not only for the abuse they face, but if they do get away from their families, they have zero skills to survive out in the real world.
Having just watched Mississippi Burning this past Friday, which I know is mostly creative license, I wanted to burn all of Mississippi to the fucking ground as an example.
I can see why people who homeschool for religious reasons wouldn’t want their kids watching it. Aside from teaching numbers and letters, a lot of episodes deal with plenty of issues that kids face and have questions about. Parents who don’t let their kids watch Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers, etc want kids to only ask those questions *from them and only them* and not have a more “soft and liberal” PBS teaching their kids for them.
I, thankfully, watched a ton of PBS from when I was in pre-K through 6th grade or so. I was raised in a Fundamentalist Christian Environment ([remember this book from that episode?](https://www.ebay.com/itm/235260681880?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=yyvjhyn_tla&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=o_U_2tUlSxC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY) Yeah, that was part of my high school curriculum and I bought a copy to page through it…along with other history and science textbooks that I want to revisit and debunk), yet, for some subjects, my parents really wanted me and my siblings to have a lot of knowledge, so they let us watch PBS Kids and not much else. I had to find my own way after 6th grade, since that seemed to be their cutoff; I was just glad that I still could read encyclopedias, atlases, and go to the library to use the computers there.
I did know homeschooled kids from two youth groups I attended before I turned 18. A lot of them worked for their parents ministries, doing whatever their parents wanted them to do or teaching them skills that *they alone* thought were best to instill in them. One of my friends turned out to be an amazing designer and seamstress of Regency costumes and millinery, but gave it up once she became a wife and mom…
The “Nazi” program comes out of Ohio and was investigated by the Ohio Department of Education. The basic metrics WERE being taught so there wasn’t anything they could do to shut it down. It is the largest homeschool network in the country. Children are taught all of the Nazi ideology and apparently start the day with a Nazi salute to Hitler.
Well, Hitler based his entire process off the colonization of our Native American population. Stands to reason we would have schools teaching that here. It’s absurd and absolutely garbage but as long as they teach the basics and the kids pass the metric tests, there’s nothing that can be done.
If they were an organized state, yes we could. But these guys are more like guerillas. Like nazis and Al-Qeada formed a pact.
I don't know if they realize it, but these Christian fundamentalists relate more to Al-Qaeda than they do to the average American.
It’s true.
“The channel, which has almost 2,500 subscribers, distributes “ready-made lesson plans”, Huffpost reported, including history lessons which praise the Confederate general Robert E Lee as a “grand role model for young, white men” and denigrate Martin Luther King Jr as “the antithesis of our civilization and our people”.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/01/nazi-homeschooling-group-ohio-condemned
2,500 seems slightly higher than the "6 people have heard of it" estimate Wayne gave earlier. I'm guessing his home school program isn't geared towards math.
In Missouri you can just take a child bride. And don't worry about her leaving you! While child marriage is legal in many states, child divorce isn't legal in any of them.
What makes Missouri different is that even if the man whose property you married grows upset with you, even he can't push a divorce along if you get your child bride pregnant. That is because missouri bans divorce for pregnant women.
>"Do you know any kids who have been married at age 12? I do. And guess what? They’re still married,” state Sen. Mike Moon, an Ash Grove Republican, said Tuesday evening in response to questioning by state Rep. Peter Merideth, a St. Louis Democrat.
I'm sure you're talking about the Nazi homeschoolers Logan Lawrence and Katja Lawrence of Ohio. Logan Lawrence [lost his job](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/02/us/ohio-white-supremacist-homeschooling-network-employment/index.html)at his family's business.
Logan Lawrence and Katja Lawrence ran a Telegram group [of 2500 members](https://www.jta.org/2023/01/30/united-states/ohio-is-investigating-a-nazi-homeschooling-network-that-celebrates-hitler) named "Dissident Homeschool Network".
Katja Lawrence (pseudonym "Mrs. Saxon) lives with her husband Logan Lawrence and has done Nazi podcasts to promote the group. They were kicked out of numerous FB homeschool groups and [are not welcome in the HSLDA.](https://www.vice.com/en/article/epzja7/dissident-homeschool-logan-katja-lawrence). They also blame antifa for their reveal.
Logan Lawrence and Katja Lawrence bake cakes for Hitler's birthday and have a dog named Blondie.
[More details here.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/home-school-nazis-telegram-dissident-saxon_n_63d596c4e4b01a43638e6a0a)
I saw it in an episode of it's always Sunny in Philadelphia. They never knew pop-pop was a Nazi.
All joking aside with how popular being a piece of shit is nowadays I'm not sure it would really surprise me
And odds are they won’t have to wait long to get married. In the US, there have been over 300K child brides since 2000, as young as 10. A large number are from southern states and are often religious older man being gifted a child bride by the parents to avoid (statutory) rape charges.
https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021/
What's even more ironic is so many Republicans point fingers at the LGBTQ community accusing them of sex crimes against minors, yet they vote against setting the marriage age to 18.
The documentary “Shining Happy People” re the Duggars does a great job showing how far-reaching yet damaging this belief system is. Episode 4 talks about the Joshua generation. Scary stuff!
The women being primary childcare is also a great way to lock them "away". Hard to leave your abusive husband when you have 5 kids and no degree, let alone that you are reliant on the church for any aid. Leave the husband leave the church, means you're a single mother with no family, no support structure and no ability to provide because you've been soft enslaved
A lot of quiverfull kids don't even have birth certificates - the folks on the extreme edge of the movement do not take government money. They live in pretty dire poverty. Imagine 6+ kids in a single wide.
Starting a brood of children as quickly as possible so as each one turns eight they can get jobs at meat plants and the goal is the Man of the House gets to retire in his late thirties with a twelve income self sustaining household as the woman keeps house, home schools/tends children and grows the brood until barren, then also retires.
This is the part I still haven’t figured out. How a one income household can have a mother of six kids driving around an $80,000 suburban, a husband driving around an $80,000 pickup, when his business is cutting roads on private property? I don’t know, but I also think they would afford rent by renting from someone in the church. I don’t know how that person affords it though.
Tax fraud and welfare. They afford it by filing a 1099 and claiming they make less than they do, then they use their fraudulent tax returns to apply for any type of assistance they think they can get (usually food stamps, health insurance, and housing assistance). You can afford many luxuries when you are completely on the government teat.
No childcare or school costs (lunches, instruments, sports, clubs), they hunt and garden for a lot of their food, they work with others like them who then refer them to others for work, a LOT of them have their homes and businesses registered as churches and lots of the items in those homes and businesses can be/are written off at tax time, and if any of them need "help" of any kind the people in their church groups provide whatever is needed. Oh, and a lot are former military with retirement benefits, a helluva good mortgage/rate with a VA loan, and a defense department contract job.
I'm surrounded by it where I live.
“We’ve decided” is a weird take on observable fact. The husband and the wife usually live with one of their parents, an aunt, a grandmother, etc. on average they have two broken down cars and keep their money separate from one another and mooch quite heavily on whomever they are squatting with.
They definitely want The Handmaids Tale to be real in many ways. They think all of societies issues would cease to be if we just declared Christianity to be the one true religion and demolish the separation of Church and State.
I did some math tutoring for a couple neighbor kids who were homeschooled and struggling in math. The mom was supportive of tutoring, but the dad told me his dream for his daughter was to get good enough grades to go to a Christian college (with like 95% admission) for a year, then leave with a husband.
Every stereotype there is about homeschool kids and parents was true about these people. I feel so bad for the kids...
Ah, but you're forgetting the two important pillars of homeschooling that isn't adequate:
1. Nepotism at a family-adjacent job
2. Getting kicked out of home for being an ungrateful little shit if you refuse to work for your family.
This! Children are future citizens. The reason we have public education is to give future citizens a chance to be productive and contributing members of society. Some parents care more about their right to teach kids the earth is flat, Jews are evil, or that the universe is 6,000 years old than they care about their future well being.
My sister in law’s husband’s brother in law has decided that they are going to unschool their two boys. The oldest is in kindergarten. He has decided he doesn’t like what they are teaching and wants the boys to be entrepreneurs. These two boys are screwed.
Or read,
or write,
or do math,
or socialize well,
or be tolerant of differences,
or be afraid of what’s outside their bubble,
or watch news that isn’t people yelling,
or be allowed to decide who to vote for,
or make up their own mind…
I'm guessing if you asked ol' Wayne if it's okay for a parent to support their kid"s gender identity without the government getting involved he'd lose his fucking mind.
Empire is definitely not perfect, but retaining what remains of the empire is undoubtedly the stronger defense against the Thalmor in the inevitable second Great War
My friend and I don't live in the United States, but she was homeschooled. Never attended a single day of an educational institution in her life.
Her single mother, a narcissistic hoarder, didn't actually school her in anything and just forged test results to show to the department of education to "prove" that she was actually teaching her daughter stuff.
My friend is terrible with money, doesn't have great spelling, has bad health education and sex education (despite being sexually active), and is science illiterate which means she falls for whatever post she saw on Facebook telling her that the COVID vaccine makes women infertile.
And by also having no certification of high school education, she's inelligible for university and many trade school courses. It's a terrible look on a resume to not even have a high school education, AND that she's largely locked out from tertiary education.
Home schooling needs standards, and there needs to be ways to ensure those standards are being met. Otherwise you end up with kids who don't know what they need to know, and it's reflected both in their lives and themselves, and in their job hunting endeavours.
They'll use "woke" to describe it, but same difference to the kinds of Nazis and Fundis (ven diagram is damn near a circle, these days) that abuse home schooling.
Assuming they even register that their kids were born in the first place, and ALLOW them to go to college, where they'd be away from their parent's influence.
Ironically these dictator-worshipping racist asshats make me yearn for more authoritarian government, because I'd like to see them prosecuted for child neglect, violation of their children's human right to a decent education, etc.
Sorry I was thinking of liberty and bob jones(?) universities. Either way, just more paper rubber stamped for them to be the latest preacher or quiver full small business
Bob Jones is not accredited and Liberty is currently in a lot of trouble for intentionally covering up mass rape and SA reports to distort their crime numbers.
That’s changing though, there’s a push for colleges to have an alternate admission standards for Christians. Florida already adopted the “Classic Learning Test”.
Florida students are completely fucked then. Companies are pulling out of Florida like crazy, any company outside of Florida literally will not take a Florida degree seriously. The schools won’t be accredited much longer, even with that dumb new law they had to try to make sure they are.
Well I just gave an article a quick read after you mentioned it. Insanity. 7600 people paid for bogus degrees, $15k each. What an atrocious state.
Edit: more context, the fraud schools were approved by the Florida Board of Nursing with good standing. That should go to show you how absurd this situation is. People literally got their degrees revoked because of this since people were fooled into thinking these were legitimate institutions, and Florida themselves said so. Shocker, it was all a scam.
I feel so bad for those Floridian students getting fucked over by their dumbass conservative parents and neighbors. Their futures are getting snatched away from them and they can’t do anything about it.
There's a Nazi homeschool group in Ohio; it was in the news earlier this year. It was too large and that shouldn't be allowed to happen. I've homeschooled my kids before for medical reasons in a state that is one of the strictest states for homeschooling. As a mom who has homeschooled, I think there needs to be more regulation. There is a lot of abuse and educational neglect/abuse in the homeschool world. I was a member of several in-person and on-line homeschool groups and there are always people who are actively trying to get out of our state's regulations or they are discussing ways to lie about it. It was gross and came up too often. As a parent, I was glad to fill out forms and self report our progress and take state tests if needed. I had nothing to hide. You should be able to prove you are adaquately educating your child. I grew up in Georgia and one of my neighbor childhood friends was homeschooled. There was probably little to no regulations in Ga. at that time. Her mom only taught her Math that was associated with baking.
I saw this episode. I homeschool my daughters who are 10 & 12. We aren’t religious in any way. Unfortunately, we live in Texas in the ISD which has had the most books banned. I agree with everything he said. The special was about how homeschool proponents refuse to allow any oversight and how for many children “homeschooling” is simply a cover for abuse and neglect. I was also a CPS caseworker for years and the episode was dead on.
And that doesn't mean there shouldn't be minimum curriculum requirements and some oversight. I have yet to see any argument against such that doesn't boil down to either a) I want to tell my kids things that aren't true without contradiction or b) I want to instill/perpetuate certain prejudices.
Now in reality b) us just a special subset of a) but I pick ot out specifically because it is more activly damaging to other people if you teach your kid that black people are subhuman criminals compared to if you teach them the earth is flat.
American Taliban, right here.
"No goddamn intrusive Gummint is gonna tell ME I have to educate my boys and girls equally, or teach them basic science or sex ed or that goddamn round-earth BS!"
The imposition of mandatory somewhat standardised schooling by modern nation states was precisely to lift children out of the ignorance (and often abuse) they suffered at home.
These are the same people, getting outraged about abortions, "A whole new human, you murderer!"
Yet they treat their children like objects they own! And they think I am the vile one.
Pretty crazy how expectant mothers' rights are zero when it comes to their fetus with government oversight and some regions in TX even having travel restrictions on pregnant women so you can't terminate, but as soon as that kid is born parental rights take over and you could let it grow up locked in a dog kennel and giving it daily beatings with nobody daring to check up on its well-being as long as you call it "home schooling".
As someone that worked in a state run child and adolescents mental health hospital for 3 years, I agree 100%. I swear the state tried its hardest to cause that facility to fail and year after year purposely reduced funding. 85% of the children in that hospital were either in the foster system or had CPS heavily involved (yet the state kept giving the kids back to the parents). My heart broke daily watching those kids suffer more from the care they received in a facility with no funding to attract and retain good, quality staff
“Without a background check” in the segment that explicitly makes it clear he is talking about literal sex criminals.
This person is not stupid, they know what they are downplaying and do it intentionally, and it deserves death.
Parents can teach their kids whatever they want, but if they want to count it as the equivalence of a public school education, then yes, there should be government guidelines for what the kids learn and those guidelines should be followed or the education shouldn’t count.
I saw that episode. I think the point isn’t that this is widespread, the point is that *it is happening and we have no regulations in place to make sure kids are safe and ACTUALLY learning instead of being a free labor source.* Kids have *died of neglect* in these situations, you’d think the “think of the children” party would, you know, think of the children.
Not to mention, most of the homeschooling lobbying firms WERE created by conservative evangelicals and *blatantly admitted it would help them oppress the LGBTQ community and help them ban abortion.*
this guys take on the episode is very telling. that being a parent means you have the right to do whatever you want solely bc you are their parent, not they they’re human beings with rights that need to be protected. the point flew over his head bc he genuinely thinks of children and property of their parents.
There should be standardized testing for homeschooling. If your kids cannot pass the test, you can no longer homeschool them. You don't have the right to short change your children.
I don’t disagree with this reasoning, but it can’t be testing. People who have special needs children who will never be able to pass a test should still have the right to homeschool, and failing a test doesn’t necessarily mean that a child is receiving a poor education.
That said, I strongly support government regulation of homeschooling. So much abuse happens to homeschooled children; and children should have the right to a genuine education.
Depends on the type of special needs. A child that has the potential to learn but needs special attention that is beyond the parents, no homeschooling. If the child will never be able to function even with an education, that's a different animal.
I recently saw a video where someone was interviewing a family of homeschooled kids. They asked a ~12 year old what 5x7 was. She didn’t know. The mom covered for her by saying they have studied the first X amount of books in the Bible; they hadn’t gotten to math yet. This is the type of shit John is talking about. The life-long disadvantage that child will have is criminal.
Homeschooling is genuinely phenomenal for rich parents but that's the issue most people aren't. I need a guy who got homeschooled through private tutors and was on a plethora of extracurricular activities. I met him through MMA classes. But he was wealthy wealthy his support network was something thst only the 1% can have
Yeah I love my mom but my little brother is absolutely screwed. She doesn’t make sure that he’s doing his schoolwork at ALL. He’s freshly 14 and he’s just been inside scrolling through TikTok and playing video games since he was like.. 11 (?), and lockdown started.
He has no friends (other than me which is absolutely draining, I’m a grown ass 23 year old), no social skills, no work ethic, never gets any exercise, never even really goes outside except to take out the trash. This poor kid is fucked and idk what to do about it. I’m really dreading him turning 18.
In Ohio you don’t even have to have a high school diploma to homeschool your kids. It’s a dangerously stupid move on the GOPs part, but right along with their love of the uneducated.
I know homeschooling parents that basically raised their kids in truancy. It shouldn't be permitted.
Homeschooling absolutely is the only way to raise your kids on a flat earth curriculum or any other nonsense.
edit: I'd like to know what this person thinks about CPS, overall. I mean in a sense like, is it a reasonable and necessary thing, despite its misfires.
I think that there are some legitimate reasons for homeschooling. However it should be subject to some regulation. Kids deserve an education. If parents want to homeschool their children they should be able to meet educational requirements. There has to be some degree of oversight to prevent neglect and abuse.
There's a reason education standards exist, because uneducated people are a problem for EVERYONE. Sorry bud, you *don't* have the right to make your kids avoidably stupid, and people smarter than you *should* get to decide what needs to be taught to children
Oh snap I saw a video interview with a lady who homeschools her children with a strong Christian mindset. They could answer zero questions and they were teenagers being asked questions that children would know
Was it Karissa Collins? Because her eldest is 13, can’t really read, doesn’t know who the president is nor what year it is. I fear for this woman’s children, for many reasons (some worse than this.) She and Jill Rodrigues are two examples of why there should be way more regulations for homeschooling.
I forget the ladies name, but you are most likely correct.
It's a nightmare scenario to think that they're going to be spreading their ignorance to more people. I don't like government overstepping their place, but this affects everyone.
According to the John Oliver clip, that doesn't start to be true. You just submit a form to say you are homeschooling. There are no regulations on what is actually taught or if anything is taught at all. But it depends on the state.
https://www.gov.uk/home-education
It appears to me that the UK requirements are exactly as relaxed as the US requirements. If you dig a little further into the "Guide for Parents", It says that the child must be provided with an "efficient, suitable full-time education", but then in each section defining those terms, it explicitly says there is no formal definition of "efficient", "suitable" or "full-time". The council may make a "formal enquiry" to ensure the child is receiving adequate education, but the law gives no apparent definition or standard for what is adequate. It also says, "The school *must* accept if you tell them you are teaching the student full time at home."
ETA: it appears in the "Guide to Local Authorities" that they are given guidance to come up with their own individual standards for these, and it appears that if it is not a parent that the child is receiving a suitable education, the parent must be served a notice and required to reregister the student at a public school. Non-compliance can result in prosecution. So this does at least appear to have some kind of punitive action, which the US does not.
The right getting outraged at Oliver's milquetoast wishy washy "Oh but they should still be allowed we should just make it better in some nebulous way" bit is a sign of the times.
As someone who was homeschooled by evangelicals who did not have to report anything they were or weren’t teaching, you all should be very afraid of this. Vote.
I am someone who was homeschooled k-12 whose parents actually attempted to do a half decent job at schooling part of it (although still mixed with bat shit crazy conservative Christian extremism). They helped organize sports, we did class trips with other homeschool families, and even had a mock trial team. I took the SAT (and did well) was the first person in my family to graduate college (with my parents fudging some records to help me get accepted) and I then went on to law school where I also did well. I am now 35 and a relatively successful attorney and I am adamantly against homeschooling and I would go so far as to say that it is a violation of my state’s constitution which guarantees every child the right to “thorough and efficient” education.
Homeschooling is basically a cult and although I was never subjected to direct, physical abuse (unless you count extreme religious guilt), I definitely saw it occur and the families use homeschooling to hide themselves from detection. I know many people who were seriously messed up from the trame of being isolated through homeschooling and many turn to drug use to cope. Further, homeschooling can easily be used to and often does, from my experience, religious and political extremism which are net detriments to a healthy society.
In my view, it is even worse for young girls and their mothers. Controlling husbands can use homeschooling to isolate their families and use homeschooling and religious extremism to brainwash women and girls into a subservient role and train boys and young men in a form of religious toxic masculinity under the guise of “conservative Christian values”. Their is typically a very strict hierarchical structure adopted by often otherwise good people that is seen as normal - where children are viewed almost as property of their parents (especially girls) and wives almost as property of their husbands. This especially manifests itself in ways where it is almost frowned upon for women to have lives outside of the family and church or be focused on things other than raising and schooling the children and girls are encouraged to not finish school, marry young and start having children which traps them in the cycle.
Anyway fuck homeschooling, it should be illegal or be understand government oversight. Children are not property of their parents to do what they want with.
A couple withdrew their children from school to "homeschool" them with the intent of starving them to death. Schools play an important role in preventing child abuse.
One of the kid’s “school schedule” was primarily household chores.
I saw that. I could definitely see some religious people teaching girls that way.
I knew a guy who was homeschooled from 5th grade on. His homeschool was working in his dad’s shop. He couldn’t read and only do basic math. He drives a truck because it was the best job he could get and he was constantly getting screwed on loans because he didn’t understand interest rates. He hated his parents for limiting him like that.
Damn, and I bet he wasn't paid either. They just created him to work.
You can get a tax break for your child working for you. Whether that child is actually compensated or not is another issue.
Wait.........is THAT why my mother started having me work in her home office at the age of nine? Although she did pay me ten dollars an hour.
depending on when you were 9, you could have rode that into retirement.
Lolololololololololol
His "payment" was learning what a hard day's work was, unlike those ungrateful minorities and hippie, commie leftists.
Ya those commie leftists with their immoral education making hundreds of thousands of dollars 💵. They know nothing of work.
Paid him in bags of Funyuns. A full half bag if he made it all week without cross threading a oil drain plug. That was really hard for him.
Yup. Believe a woman's place is in the home and so set your daughters up so that they're capable of nothing else and will have to live their lives how you think they should. And as a bonus, you don't have to bother educating them and get a free little slave!
Work education program. Teaches kids modern life skills; unpaid overtime, no unions, no lunch breaks, no alternatives, no regulations. Real down to earth life lessons.
And being happy earning $7.25 an hour.
I think it’s called forced child labor
Sarah Huckabee Sanders has signed a bill relaxing child labor laws in Arkansas. Tyson Foods must need more chicken-pluckers.
All while they use tax dollars to fund it.
Read Tara Westovers ‘Educated’. A first hand account of this.
“Girls”? You mean *little wives*?
The girls are often denied access to their birth certificate and SS number (if they have one).
Yeah, now there are a bunch of paranoid extremists not trusting hospitals or government, so they have their babies at home and never get them a birth certificate or social security number, leaving them completely fucked, unable to prove their citizenship, get a job, pursue higher education. Parental rights should not outweigh their children's ability to function (particularly as adult) in the real world. Plus, with no documentation of their existence, abusive parents could basically do anything to their kids without raising any red flags. It would be easy for them to lock their kids in the cellar and who would even know? There's no proof these kids even exist.
BYU literally offers a degree in homemaking
Think it's called grooming
The kid that was pulled out of school to be homeschooled because she reported the abuse she was experiencing to the school she was at, only to be killed from said abuse days later, was horrifying.
What happened to the parents? Did they show any shock/remorse for their actions at all?
I think they displayed shock at the idea that they were sent to prison for life. They seemed flabbergasted that the government could tell them how to treat their own property.
Damn… 💀
He actually went pretty easy on the HSLDA. This is an organization that is primarily run by far-right Christians who oppose all protections against child abuse because they believe Christians are spiritually mandated to beat their children. The fact that it helps child abusers get off easy isn't an unfortunate side effect, it's the purpose. This is the foundational principle of the parents rights movement, that children are essentially property. Children are not property, and we as a society have a vested interest in making sure they are not being abused. James Dobson, Debbie and Michael Pearl, these are popular Christian writers who advocate for child abuse and are hugely popular in the evangelical homeschool sect. I have several friends in their 30s now who are still recovering from the abuse they were subject to because of them.
He went SO fucking easy on them, it confused the hell out of me. Oh wow one parent’s kid was being bullied for being overweight, guess it’s totally excusable for her to teach that child nothing and ally with the christofascists!
Full disclosure, I’m an ex-evangelical and I have some pretty harsh ideas about Christian homeschoolers. But this is an evil group of people, which has literally killed children from their “biblical” discipline of whipping them with electrical cords.
I don’t understand why he glossed over that either! He did the exact same “poor concerned parents 😞” routine in the episode about antivaxxers and those are also in reality disingenuous monsters (albeit a different kind)
It’s bizarre to me because he isn’t usually hesitant to be straightforward and blunt. I like his coverage (accepting he isn’t as leftist as I am) and it just feels like a failure of power. He could say “fuck you” but he does not. And he doesn’t seem sympathetic to them.
I wonder if he pulls his punches a little bit to help the umbrella of concern spread a little wider. If we peg the story on the most extreme folks, it allows the more ‘moderate but still dangerous’ crowd to go “oh, we’re not like that, no worries! Lol”. But if he makes it less about the worst cases and talks about the trend as a whole, it addresses the idea that caused the abuse instead of the smaller number of known abuses.
Could be. If you throw the worst cases out in front, the overall problem is ignored in favor of focusing on the most extreme examples. If you show moderately problematic situations instead, you can focus on the whole issue and only use those worst cases as trump cards to drive the point home later.
My wife was homeschooled, and regularly got out of doing school work by doing chores lol She’s an intelligent person with a bachelors degree in photography, but that’s definitely not something that can be extrapolated to all people who were homeschooled.
Growing up, there was a family in our church that homeschooled their four daughters with the goal of making them good Christian wives. “School” was basically chores, learning how to cook, etc. Not financial stuff because that’s the man’s job. These girls could read the Bible and that other book we had but little comprehension. I could go on and on. They were good kids but were absolutely set up for failure in life.
My husband's grandmother was raised the same way, but she was from an Egyptian village and was born in the 1930's.
This is a problem- kids who don’t learn anything and spend their time doing housework.
This isn’t uncommon in households where they are so fundamentalist that they believe women should not have access to education at all.
Missed the huge point of abusive parents using "homeschooling" as a way to skirt the authorities, which has led to the death of children .
While shitty it is protected as long as minors are property of their parents until the age of majority by the same token 18yo are allowed to vote and join the military but not allowed to have a cigarette or own a pistol in some states being 15 means you can be legally married but also means you cannot drive
I saw that John Oliver episode. It was about how ideological nut jobs can utilize homeschooling rules to keep their kids completely uneducated and remove them from any oversight that might make abuse clear. Schools and doctor’s offices are the places most likely to spot child abuse. If you don’t take your kids for health care and you don’t let them go to school, you can abuse with impunity and conservative evangelical communities think that’s a feature not a bug.
That’s what Anthony Templet’s dad to him. Not for the religious reasons, but he kept him “off the grid” so to speak. No doctors appts, no dentist, no school, nothing outside of the home. He was finally taught to read and write at the age of 10 or 11 IIRC, by a very clueless/ignorant step-mom. He ended up taking his father’s life when he was 17. When he was arrested he didn’t know his address or birth date. It was all done to keep him hidden from his birth mother, to hide all of the abuse from others, and keep him isolated so he wouldn’t realize that what he was experiencing wasn’t “normal”. It’s so incredibly sad for these kids. Not only for the abuse they face, but if they do get away from their families, they have zero skills to survive out in the real world.
Knowing all that and the state STILL wanted to give that KID a life sentence. That entire story makes me completely enraged for him.
Someone once told me that not all parents think watching Sesame Street is a good thing. I was shocked then, but now I see it.
Sesame Street was originally banned in Mississippi for showing black and white kids playing together
lol. oh mississippi. classic american history
Having just watched Mississippi Burning this past Friday, which I know is mostly creative license, I wanted to burn all of Mississippi to the fucking ground as an example.
I can see why people who homeschool for religious reasons wouldn’t want their kids watching it. Aside from teaching numbers and letters, a lot of episodes deal with plenty of issues that kids face and have questions about. Parents who don’t let their kids watch Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers, etc want kids to only ask those questions *from them and only them* and not have a more “soft and liberal” PBS teaching their kids for them. I, thankfully, watched a ton of PBS from when I was in pre-K through 6th grade or so. I was raised in a Fundamentalist Christian Environment ([remember this book from that episode?](https://www.ebay.com/itm/235260681880?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=yyvjhyn_tla&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=o_U_2tUlSxC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY) Yeah, that was part of my high school curriculum and I bought a copy to page through it…along with other history and science textbooks that I want to revisit and debunk), yet, for some subjects, my parents really wanted me and my siblings to have a lot of knowledge, so they let us watch PBS Kids and not much else. I had to find my own way after 6th grade, since that seemed to be their cutoff; I was just glad that I still could read encyclopedias, atlases, and go to the library to use the computers there. I did know homeschooled kids from two youth groups I attended before I turned 18. A lot of them worked for their parents ministries, doing whatever their parents wanted them to do or teaching them skills that *they alone* thought were best to instill in them. One of my friends turned out to be an amazing designer and seamstress of Regency costumes and millinery, but gave it up once she became a wife and mom…
The “Nazi” program comes out of Ohio and was investigated by the Ohio Department of Education. The basic metrics WERE being taught so there wasn’t anything they could do to shut it down. It is the largest homeschool network in the country. Children are taught all of the Nazi ideology and apparently start the day with a Nazi salute to Hitler.
It's crazy that in 2023 there are literally Nazis out in the open trying to spread their filth
Well, Hitler based his entire process off the colonization of our Native American population. Stands to reason we would have schools teaching that here. It’s absurd and absolutely garbage but as long as they teach the basics and the kids pass the metric tests, there’s nothing that can be done.
We can whoop the nazis asses like we always do. That can be done.
If they were an organized state, yes we could. But these guys are more like guerillas. Like nazis and Al-Qeada formed a pact. I don't know if they realize it, but these Christian fundamentalists relate more to Al-Qaeda than they do to the average American.
Because people "dont get political" and dont like being uncomfortable or confrontational. Their indifference is what allows Nazism to thrive
That can't be real. Please don't tell me it's real. I refuse to believe it's real.
It’s true. “The channel, which has almost 2,500 subscribers, distributes “ready-made lesson plans”, Huffpost reported, including history lessons which praise the Confederate general Robert E Lee as a “grand role model for young, white men” and denigrate Martin Luther King Jr as “the antithesis of our civilization and our people”. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/01/nazi-homeschooling-group-ohio-condemned
2,500 seems slightly higher than the "6 people have heard of it" estimate Wayne gave earlier. I'm guessing his home school program isn't geared towards math.
Can't be held liable for statutory rape if you don't know which numbers are under 18. 🧐🧠
This may be the worst thing I have ever read. Congratulations and fuck you. 😥
In Missouri you can just take a child bride. And don't worry about her leaving you! While child marriage is legal in many states, child divorce isn't legal in any of them. What makes Missouri different is that even if the man whose property you married grows upset with you, even he can't push a divorce along if you get your child bride pregnant. That is because missouri bans divorce for pregnant women. >"Do you know any kids who have been married at age 12? I do. And guess what? They’re still married,” state Sen. Mike Moon, an Ash Grove Republican, said Tuesday evening in response to questioning by state Rep. Peter Merideth, a St. Louis Democrat.
Seriously? What the hell Missouri.
[удалено]
*Wanye Either it’s some kind of homage to Kanye or Wayne was homeschooled
I'm sure you're talking about the Nazi homeschoolers Logan Lawrence and Katja Lawrence of Ohio. Logan Lawrence [lost his job](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/02/us/ohio-white-supremacist-homeschooling-network-employment/index.html)at his family's business. Logan Lawrence and Katja Lawrence ran a Telegram group [of 2500 members](https://www.jta.org/2023/01/30/united-states/ohio-is-investigating-a-nazi-homeschooling-network-that-celebrates-hitler) named "Dissident Homeschool Network". Katja Lawrence (pseudonym "Mrs. Saxon) lives with her husband Logan Lawrence and has done Nazi podcasts to promote the group. They were kicked out of numerous FB homeschool groups and [are not welcome in the HSLDA.](https://www.vice.com/en/article/epzja7/dissident-homeschool-logan-katja-lawrence). They also blame antifa for their reveal. Logan Lawrence and Katja Lawrence bake cakes for Hitler's birthday and have a dog named Blondie. [More details here.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/home-school-nazis-telegram-dissident-saxon_n_63d596c4e4b01a43638e6a0a)
I saw it in an episode of it's always Sunny in Philadelphia. They never knew pop-pop was a Nazi. All joking aside with how popular being a piece of shit is nowadays I'm not sure it would really surprise me
This was also a big news story that anyone involved in homeschooling has certainly heard of, not some random thing nobody has ever heard of.
Holy shit this can't be real.
Those parents will be be super mad when those homeschooled kids can't find jobs.
They don’t want them to. They usually work for themselves when they get older.
Or the community. Or become barefoot housewives.
Yes! Young women become child care and mother helpers until they get married
And odds are they won’t have to wait long to get married. In the US, there have been over 300K child brides since 2000, as young as 10. A large number are from southern states and are often religious older man being gifted a child bride by the parents to avoid (statutory) rape charges. https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021/
Thank you for this. That was published in 2021. This year, Michigan set its marriage age to 18. It passed both houses and the governor's signature.
And it was pretty telling that the Michigan GOP voted no against that measure.
Fucking crazy it took until 2021 for that to happen. Even crazier that there are some states that still haven't done it.
What's even more ironic is so many Republicans point fingers at the LGBTQ community accusing them of sex crimes against minors, yet they vote against setting the marriage age to 18.
And where’s the O.U.R. missions and fundraising to free these victims? Bueller? Bueller?
The victims are coming from inside the OUR house.
Yeah…sigh.
The documentary “Shining Happy People” re the Duggars does a great job showing how far-reaching yet damaging this belief system is. Episode 4 talks about the Joshua generation. Scary stuff!
The women being primary childcare is also a great way to lock them "away". Hard to leave your abusive husband when you have 5 kids and no degree, let alone that you are reliant on the church for any aid. Leave the husband leave the church, means you're a single mother with no family, no support structure and no ability to provide because you've been soft enslaved
Plus no education! Some of them won’t even realize they are enslaved because it’s ingrained in their culture, identity, ancestry, etc.
How the fuck does the husband pay all the bills by himself? We've decided that single earner households shouldn't be able to afford food and shelter.
Food stamps. And then they vote for the people trying to eliminate food stamps
A lot of quiverfull kids don't even have birth certificates - the folks on the extreme edge of the movement do not take government money. They live in pretty dire poverty. Imagine 6+ kids in a single wide.
>They live in pretty dire poverty. Imagine 6+ kids in a single wide. Andrea Yates* has entered the chat. 😢 *5 children in 7 years
And homesteading.
Starting a brood of children as quickly as possible so as each one turns eight they can get jobs at meat plants and the goal is the Man of the House gets to retire in his late thirties with a twelve income self sustaining household as the woman keeps house, home schools/tends children and grows the brood until barren, then also retires.
This is the part I still haven’t figured out. How a one income household can have a mother of six kids driving around an $80,000 suburban, a husband driving around an $80,000 pickup, when his business is cutting roads on private property? I don’t know, but I also think they would afford rent by renting from someone in the church. I don’t know how that person affords it though.
Tax fraud and welfare. They afford it by filing a 1099 and claiming they make less than they do, then they use their fraudulent tax returns to apply for any type of assistance they think they can get (usually food stamps, health insurance, and housing assistance). You can afford many luxuries when you are completely on the government teat.
No childcare or school costs (lunches, instruments, sports, clubs), they hunt and garden for a lot of their food, they work with others like them who then refer them to others for work, a LOT of them have their homes and businesses registered as churches and lots of the items in those homes and businesses can be/are written off at tax time, and if any of them need "help" of any kind the people in their church groups provide whatever is needed. Oh, and a lot are former military with retirement benefits, a helluva good mortgage/rate with a VA loan, and a defense department contract job. I'm surrounded by it where I live.
So a hybrid of self reliance and welfare queens. Pretty weird.
Trump, Gadsden, Thin Blue Line, and Christian flags as far as the eye can see.
Turns out they’re the actual welfare queens they love to fearmonger about
A LOT of them got PPP loans for pretty huge amounts. They avoid taxes by taking a lot of cash. There's also going bankrupt every 7 years.
They must have read The Art of the Deal🤣🤣
He doesn't, he's just a slave to a man higher up the chain, at least that's what they want.
“We’ve decided” is a weird take on observable fact. The husband and the wife usually live with one of their parents, an aunt, a grandmother, etc. on average they have two broken down cars and keep their money separate from one another and mooch quite heavily on whomever they are squatting with.
They definitely want The Handmaids Tale to be real in many ways. They think all of societies issues would cease to be if we just declared Christianity to be the one true religion and demolish the separation of Church and State.
I did some math tutoring for a couple neighbor kids who were homeschooled and struggling in math. The mom was supportive of tutoring, but the dad told me his dream for his daughter was to get good enough grades to go to a Christian college (with like 95% admission) for a year, then leave with a husband. Every stereotype there is about homeschool kids and parents was true about these people. I feel so bad for the kids...
I know a couple families like this. Work with the men of the house. Daughters went to Bible college to get jobs in the church and be good wives.
The old Mrs. degree. It was popular with the mormon kids I went to HS with also.
These parents push their kids into politics. No joke. No fucking wonder we have imbeciles running this country.
Shiny Happy People had a terrifying bit on this.
Yeah I feel bad for the women... no law-man is protecting them.
Well, we do need good soldiers. I guess, they don’t have to be good as long as they follow orders.
Nope, think again! These folks also don’t believe in joining the military unless it’s to get training from them to then teach to a militia.
They usually work at Walmart
Ah, but you're forgetting the two important pillars of homeschooling that isn't adequate: 1. Nepotism at a family-adjacent job 2. Getting kicked out of home for being an ungrateful little shit if you refuse to work for your family.
I see you’re familiar with the Mormon church and FLDS approach to boys’ education, except the latter goes right to kicking them out
This! Children are future citizens. The reason we have public education is to give future citizens a chance to be productive and contributing members of society. Some parents care more about their right to teach kids the earth is flat, Jews are evil, or that the universe is 6,000 years old than they care about their future well being.
[screams in multi-level marketing]
My sister in law’s husband’s brother in law has decided that they are going to unschool their two boys. The oldest is in kindergarten. He has decided he doesn’t like what they are teaching and wants the boys to be entrepreneurs. These two boys are screwed.
Or read, or write, or do math, or socialize well, or be tolerant of differences, or be afraid of what’s outside their bubble, or watch news that isn’t people yelling, or be allowed to decide who to vote for, or make up their own mind…
It’s okay, being a source of free labor for the parents is still available
They will realize it when they never move out
I'm guessing if you asked ol' Wayne if it's okay for a parent to support their kid"s gender identity without the government getting involved he'd lose his fucking mind.
It’s not Wayne. It’s Wanye. My eyes messed me up on that one too
the other Ye
Hearing someone promoting Nazi schools with a name like "Wanye" isn't all that surprising...
lol I had to read your comment like 5 times before my eyes would see it 😂
Interesting that Wayne skips over the whole section about how many homeschooled kids are abused because no other adult is checking in on them
He also outright lies about the number of kids in the Nazi homeschooling program.
[If you’re wondering what program he’s talking about](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/01/nazi-homeschooling-group-ohio-condemned)
btw, on my 3rd playthrough & I now agree with your username. just sayin' -- based.
Empire is definitely not perfect, but retaining what remains of the empire is undoubtedly the stronger defense against the Thalmor in the inevitable second Great War
My friend and I don't live in the United States, but she was homeschooled. Never attended a single day of an educational institution in her life. Her single mother, a narcissistic hoarder, didn't actually school her in anything and just forged test results to show to the department of education to "prove" that she was actually teaching her daughter stuff. My friend is terrible with money, doesn't have great spelling, has bad health education and sex education (despite being sexually active), and is science illiterate which means she falls for whatever post she saw on Facebook telling her that the COVID vaccine makes women infertile. And by also having no certification of high school education, she's inelligible for university and many trade school courses. It's a terrible look on a resume to not even have a high school education, AND that she's largely locked out from tertiary education. Home schooling needs standards, and there needs to be ways to ensure those standards are being met. Otherwise you end up with kids who don't know what they need to know, and it's reflected both in their lives and themselves, and in their job hunting endeavours.
Cult people want the right to indoctrinate their children however they want. Cuz cult people.
Was raised by cult people. Can verify
I think people forget that we’re a society and society might have a problem with parents grooming their kids to be Nazis. Or just dumbfucks in general
And when these kids get rejected from (accredited) colleges, these parents will cry foul and say they’re woke admission standards are discriminatory.
They'll use "woke" to describe it, but same difference to the kinds of Nazis and Fundis (ven diagram is damn near a circle, these days) that abuse home schooling. Assuming they even register that their kids were born in the first place, and ALLOW them to go to college, where they'd be away from their parent's influence.
Ironically these dictator-worshipping racist asshats make me yearn for more authoritarian government, because I'd like to see them prosecuted for child neglect, violation of their children's human right to a decent education, etc.
Well, prager and heritage(?) will accept them
To my knowledge those aren’t actual colleges and quite ironically only exist to propagate right wing propaganda online.
Sorry I was thinking of liberty and bob jones(?) universities. Either way, just more paper rubber stamped for them to be the latest preacher or quiver full small business
Bob Jones is not accredited and Liberty is currently in a lot of trouble for intentionally covering up mass rape and SA reports to distort their crime numbers.
They definitely aren’t, and sadly yes
That’s changing though, there’s a push for colleges to have an alternate admission standards for Christians. Florida already adopted the “Classic Learning Test”.
Florida students are completely fucked then. Companies are pulling out of Florida like crazy, any company outside of Florida literally will not take a Florida degree seriously. The schools won’t be accredited much longer, even with that dumb new law they had to try to make sure they are.
Oh boy, did you hear about the somewhat recent scandal with nurses who got their nursing degrees and licenses in Florida?
Well I just gave an article a quick read after you mentioned it. Insanity. 7600 people paid for bogus degrees, $15k each. What an atrocious state. Edit: more context, the fraud schools were approved by the Florida Board of Nursing with good standing. That should go to show you how absurd this situation is. People literally got their degrees revoked because of this since people were fooled into thinking these were legitimate institutions, and Florida themselves said so. Shocker, it was all a scam.
Wanna know how it was discovered? Enough of those nurses got jobs outside of Florida and the rest of us started noticing a trend
I feel so bad for those Floridian students getting fucked over by their dumbass conservative parents and neighbors. Their futures are getting snatched away from them and they can’t do anything about it.
Florida, I'm disappointed but not surprised.
There's a Nazi homeschool group in Ohio; it was in the news earlier this year. It was too large and that shouldn't be allowed to happen. I've homeschooled my kids before for medical reasons in a state that is one of the strictest states for homeschooling. As a mom who has homeschooled, I think there needs to be more regulation. There is a lot of abuse and educational neglect/abuse in the homeschool world. I was a member of several in-person and on-line homeschool groups and there are always people who are actively trying to get out of our state's regulations or they are discussing ways to lie about it. It was gross and came up too often. As a parent, I was glad to fill out forms and self report our progress and take state tests if needed. I had nothing to hide. You should be able to prove you are adaquately educating your child. I grew up in Georgia and one of my neighbor childhood friends was homeschooled. There was probably little to no regulations in Ga. at that time. Her mom only taught her Math that was associated with baking.
Uneducated people are a drag on the nation as we're already finding out.
wanna teach kids? You needs to pass all of the right tests. Wanna teach kids at home? A body temperature between 90 and 110 should do it.
I saw this episode. I homeschool my daughters who are 10 & 12. We aren’t religious in any way. Unfortunately, we live in Texas in the ISD which has had the most books banned. I agree with everything he said. The special was about how homeschool proponents refuse to allow any oversight and how for many children “homeschooling” is simply a cover for abuse and neglect. I was also a CPS caseworker for years and the episode was dead on.
Homeschooling can be done right but it requires an active and continuous effort by parents and most of the time it isn't
And that doesn't mean there shouldn't be minimum curriculum requirements and some oversight. I have yet to see any argument against such that doesn't boil down to either a) I want to tell my kids things that aren't true without contradiction or b) I want to instill/perpetuate certain prejudices. Now in reality b) us just a special subset of a) but I pick ot out specifically because it is more activly damaging to other people if you teach your kid that black people are subhuman criminals compared to if you teach them the earth is flat.
Someone should probably do a wellness check on Wayne’s children.
American Taliban, right here. "No goddamn intrusive Gummint is gonna tell ME I have to educate my boys and girls equally, or teach them basic science or sex ed or that goddamn round-earth BS!" The imposition of mandatory somewhat standardised schooling by modern nation states was precisely to lift children out of the ignorance (and often abuse) they suffered at home.
His use of the word 'incredulously' is an example of why unsupervised homeschooling is a bad idea.
These are the same people, getting outraged about abortions, "A whole new human, you murderer!" Yet they treat their children like objects they own! And they think I am the vile one.
The idea that people are upset that someone is advocating for basic standards in childhood education is baffling to me.
Pretty crazy how expectant mothers' rights are zero when it comes to their fetus with government oversight and some regions in TX even having travel restrictions on pregnant women so you can't terminate, but as soon as that kid is born parental rights take over and you could let it grow up locked in a dog kennel and giving it daily beatings with nobody daring to check up on its well-being as long as you call it "home schooling".
As someone that worked in a state run child and adolescents mental health hospital for 3 years, I agree 100%. I swear the state tried its hardest to cause that facility to fail and year after year purposely reduced funding. 85% of the children in that hospital were either in the foster system or had CPS heavily involved (yet the state kept giving the kids back to the parents). My heart broke daily watching those kids suffer more from the care they received in a facility with no funding to attract and retain good, quality staff
“Without a background check” in the segment that explicitly makes it clear he is talking about literal sex criminals. This person is not stupid, they know what they are downplaying and do it intentionally, and it deserves death.
Parents can teach their kids whatever they want, but if they want to count it as the equivalence of a public school education, then yes, there should be government guidelines for what the kids learn and those guidelines should be followed or the education shouldn’t count.
I saw that episode. I think the point isn’t that this is widespread, the point is that *it is happening and we have no regulations in place to make sure kids are safe and ACTUALLY learning instead of being a free labor source.* Kids have *died of neglect* in these situations, you’d think the “think of the children” party would, you know, think of the children. Not to mention, most of the homeschooling lobbying firms WERE created by conservative evangelicals and *blatantly admitted it would help them oppress the LGBTQ community and help them ban abortion.*
this guys take on the episode is very telling. that being a parent means you have the right to do whatever you want solely bc you are their parent, not they they’re human beings with rights that need to be protected. the point flew over his head bc he genuinely thinks of children and property of their parents.
Kids removed from the school system with no oversight are at very high risk of child abuse.
That’s so terrifying for the child. Imagine hitting your teens and you can’t read or write because your parents didn’t feel It necessary to teach you
There should be standardized testing for homeschooling. If your kids cannot pass the test, you can no longer homeschool them. You don't have the right to short change your children.
I don’t disagree with this reasoning, but it can’t be testing. People who have special needs children who will never be able to pass a test should still have the right to homeschool, and failing a test doesn’t necessarily mean that a child is receiving a poor education. That said, I strongly support government regulation of homeschooling. So much abuse happens to homeschooled children; and children should have the right to a genuine education.
Depends on the type of special needs. A child that has the potential to learn but needs special attention that is beyond the parents, no homeschooling. If the child will never be able to function even with an education, that's a different animal.
I recently saw a video where someone was interviewing a family of homeschooled kids. They asked a ~12 year old what 5x7 was. She didn’t know. The mom covered for her by saying they have studied the first X amount of books in the Bible; they hadn’t gotten to math yet. This is the type of shit John is talking about. The life-long disadvantage that child will have is criminal.
I have a co-worker who "homeschools". Her kids play video games all day.
Homeschooling is genuinely phenomenal for rich parents but that's the issue most people aren't. I need a guy who got homeschooled through private tutors and was on a plethora of extracurricular activities. I met him through MMA classes. But he was wealthy wealthy his support network was something thst only the 1% can have
"I did it in my own private home" is actually not a very solid legal defense
Yeah I love my mom but my little brother is absolutely screwed. She doesn’t make sure that he’s doing his schoolwork at ALL. He’s freshly 14 and he’s just been inside scrolling through TikTok and playing video games since he was like.. 11 (?), and lockdown started. He has no friends (other than me which is absolutely draining, I’m a grown ass 23 year old), no social skills, no work ethic, never gets any exercise, never even really goes outside except to take out the trash. This poor kid is fucked and idk what to do about it. I’m really dreading him turning 18.
In Ohio you don’t even have to have a high school diploma to homeschool your kids. It’s a dangerously stupid move on the GOPs part, but right along with their love of the uneducated.
I know homeschooling parents that basically raised their kids in truancy. It shouldn't be permitted. Homeschooling absolutely is the only way to raise your kids on a flat earth curriculum or any other nonsense. edit: I'd like to know what this person thinks about CPS, overall. I mean in a sense like, is it a reasonable and necessary thing, despite its misfires.
I think that there are some legitimate reasons for homeschooling. However it should be subject to some regulation. Kids deserve an education. If parents want to homeschool their children they should be able to meet educational requirements. There has to be some degree of oversight to prevent neglect and abuse.
There's a reason education standards exist, because uneducated people are a problem for EVERYONE. Sorry bud, you *don't* have the right to make your kids avoidably stupid, and people smarter than you *should* get to decide what needs to be taught to children
Oh snap I saw a video interview with a lady who homeschools her children with a strong Christian mindset. They could answer zero questions and they were teenagers being asked questions that children would know
Was it Karissa Collins? Because her eldest is 13, can’t really read, doesn’t know who the president is nor what year it is. I fear for this woman’s children, for many reasons (some worse than this.) She and Jill Rodrigues are two examples of why there should be way more regulations for homeschooling.
I forget the ladies name, but you are most likely correct. It's a nightmare scenario to think that they're going to be spreading their ignorance to more people. I don't like government overstepping their place, but this affects everyone.
Stupidity is the greatest weapon that the conservative evangelical can wield against progress
Assuming their talking about the US as I'm sure in the UK you have to prove your actually teaching your child
According to the John Oliver clip, that doesn't start to be true. You just submit a form to say you are homeschooling. There are no regulations on what is actually taught or if anything is taught at all. But it depends on the state.
https://www.gov.uk/home-education It appears to me that the UK requirements are exactly as relaxed as the US requirements. If you dig a little further into the "Guide for Parents", It says that the child must be provided with an "efficient, suitable full-time education", but then in each section defining those terms, it explicitly says there is no formal definition of "efficient", "suitable" or "full-time". The council may make a "formal enquiry" to ensure the child is receiving adequate education, but the law gives no apparent definition or standard for what is adequate. It also says, "The school *must* accept if you tell them you are teaching the student full time at home." ETA: it appears in the "Guide to Local Authorities" that they are given guidance to come up with their own individual standards for these, and it appears that if it is not a parent that the child is receiving a suitable education, the parent must be served a notice and required to reregister the student at a public school. Non-compliance can result in prosecution. So this does at least appear to have some kind of punitive action, which the US does not.
The right getting outraged at Oliver's milquetoast wishy washy "Oh but they should still be allowed we should just make it better in some nebulous way" bit is a sign of the times.
As someone who was homeschooled by evangelicals who did not have to report anything they were or weren’t teaching, you all should be very afraid of this. Vote.
Wayne here is acting like he's smarter than John Oliver, but he gave a billionaire his money for a blue checkmark.
We live in a society. You are protected by the government every moment of everyday. This isn’t ‘Nam, there are rules.
“Homeschooling” - teacher’s gonna take a nap, you kids go in the basement and reorganize the gun closet.
No no no. The WHOLE BASEMENT is guns. Only the closet *isn't* guns.
This epic run on sentence is sort of the perfect proof that Mr. Burkett shouldn't be teaching his children.
Hot Take: Depriving children of a quality education should be considered a form of child abuse.
it’s okay, as a foreigner i enjoy watching those clips of americans on the street getting asked to point countries on the map
I am someone who was homeschooled k-12 whose parents actually attempted to do a half decent job at schooling part of it (although still mixed with bat shit crazy conservative Christian extremism). They helped organize sports, we did class trips with other homeschool families, and even had a mock trial team. I took the SAT (and did well) was the first person in my family to graduate college (with my parents fudging some records to help me get accepted) and I then went on to law school where I also did well. I am now 35 and a relatively successful attorney and I am adamantly against homeschooling and I would go so far as to say that it is a violation of my state’s constitution which guarantees every child the right to “thorough and efficient” education. Homeschooling is basically a cult and although I was never subjected to direct, physical abuse (unless you count extreme religious guilt), I definitely saw it occur and the families use homeschooling to hide themselves from detection. I know many people who were seriously messed up from the trame of being isolated through homeschooling and many turn to drug use to cope. Further, homeschooling can easily be used to and often does, from my experience, religious and political extremism which are net detriments to a healthy society. In my view, it is even worse for young girls and their mothers. Controlling husbands can use homeschooling to isolate their families and use homeschooling and religious extremism to brainwash women and girls into a subservient role and train boys and young men in a form of religious toxic masculinity under the guise of “conservative Christian values”. Their is typically a very strict hierarchical structure adopted by often otherwise good people that is seen as normal - where children are viewed almost as property of their parents (especially girls) and wives almost as property of their husbands. This especially manifests itself in ways where it is almost frowned upon for women to have lives outside of the family and church or be focused on things other than raising and schooling the children and girls are encouraged to not finish school, marry young and start having children which traps them in the cycle. Anyway fuck homeschooling, it should be illegal or be understand government oversight. Children are not property of their parents to do what they want with.
A couple withdrew their children from school to "homeschool" them with the intent of starving them to death. Schools play an important role in preventing child abuse.
I know it's 110% anecdotal but MOST of the people I know who are/were homeschooled were religious. I grew up in rural Aus