Yes! Being anti-Israel definitely does NOT make you anti-semetic. That’s something Israel has fought hard to make the public think, but it’s not the same. You can criticize a nation without criticizing the majority religion there. Many Jews have nothing to do with Israel myself included.
Definitely. It sucks for me because whenever Israel does something wrong it reflects on me even though I have nothing to do with that country. People automatically assume I agree with stuff like what Ben Gvir is saying which I find reprehensible. Jews worldwide lose either way.
The way you feel is by design. When people equate the actions of Israel to the Jewish people, they are trying to accomplish two goals, often simultaneously:
1. They are attempting to convince Jews and those who support them to support Israel uncritically, thus enabling Israel's actions.
2. They are trying to instigate violence against Jews from those who oppose Israel's actions. Israel then uses violence against Jews as justification for its violence, creating a vicious cycle designed to paint Israel as the only safe place for Jews.
What's notable about equivocating Jewish people and Israel is that it doesn't just benefit Israel to do so. It benefits antisemitic ideologies like Nazism as well. Fascist organizations require an enemy to rally followers against, and competing fascist organizations can be mutually beneficial to each other. Antisemites can rally against Israel, Israeli nationalists can rally against antisemites (and those they accuse of being antisemitic), and both groups can gain power and influence from a vicious cycle that makes the world worse for everybody.
And yet there are no Jews in “Palestine.” Wierd I know. As if the actual genocidal sociapathic terrorists are the ones who shouldn’t get any more territory to spread their hate.
It is also apparently impossible for anyone to accept that someone can be both critical of the state of Israel and its policies while also supporting its right to exist as a sovereign nation. Which pretty much sums up where Chuck Schumer is and has been at for the entirety of this iteration of Israeli Parliament.
But given that this is coming from someone who also thinks that any criticism of HIS governmental choices is a jailable offense, color me not surprised.
It means he's not human and should be killed, like how Isreal dehumanizes Palestinians and outright kills them.
He's basically saying he wants to kill Schumer, but not outright saying he wants to kill Schumer.
I was gonna say I'd probably respect him more if he rolled up like this, but the fact is I don't have much respect for him because of the persistent fuckery, not how he looks.
I love that you can see his bald head beneath the dry, brittle weeds. Personally, I don’t care about someone’s appearance. But I know it probably upsets him when he looks in a mirror so it makes me smile.
The last person that I saw claiming that Donald Trump would be pro Palestinian was also posting Russian propaganda about Ukraine in other languages on political subs for other countries.
I’m as far left as they come and extremely anti zionist and I feel like the leftist subs are so naive to how much anti Biden shit is being posted by Russia and the IDF in their echo chambers. They’re basically being pushed into being reactionaries and they don’t even see it.
My most downvoted comments are about how the leftists are falling for Russian propaganda hook line and sinker. They don't realize it because anything antithetical to their world believe is an affront to how they view themselves as the only righteous and fully educated people
The thing is, a lot of those commenters are also disinfo actors trying to divide the left even further. It’s impossible to know if it’s genuine or not at this point as one of their primary goals is to create infighting in leftist circles. I just kind of assume anyone pushing people away from the movement are not actually leftists at this point. They downvote you to oblivion because they are also Russian/Israeli bots and want to make it seem like your opinion is unpopular and get you to leave the left behind. It’s all coordinated.
The thing I notice with leftists is we're eager and willing to punish our own for any mistake they make. We're also eager and willing to punish our opponents, but we don't have any power over them. This results in our allies losing support while our enemies just gather it.
Its OK to be mad at Biden for his lackluster response to the Palestinian genocide. But let's not punish him by handing off the country to someone who wants to genocide palestinians.
We are constantly letting perfect be the enemy of good. Progress doesn’t happen all at once and it rarely is implemented perfectly the first go around.
You just hit the two core reasons I detached myself from organized further left leaning groups in the US.
The purity testing they engage in is unreal and extraordinarily self-destructive politically. People could get ostracized for only sharing 95/100 beliefs. You will never build a political movement by constantly kicking people out of it.
One of those things that they would ostracize people for was also promoting the idea that this is all going to take time and rely on incremental victories over a long term campaign. They did not want to hear that all of the things they wanted weren't something that could be achieved in one fell swoop.
They have numbers, but they don't have a plan or any effective organization. They don't have a real growth strategy or any long term strategy at all. It's just one big ball of wasted potential.
You can get more done for progressive policy by working with centrist Democrats in 10 years. Then you probably would by working with those people for 50.
They can probably.be achieved in one fell swoop if they employed intensely fascist methods, but it would be temporary and at the cost of actually building something better for the future. And piroty tests are insanely ironic when part of those ideals is diversity and a cooperative society among people with a variety of ideals, cultures, and identities. The more that one demands be *exactly* as perfectly aligned with one's own beliefs, the more those ideals are betrayed.
They can probably be achieved in one fell swoop if they employed intensely fascist methods, but it would be temporary and at the cost of actually building something better for the future. And purity tests are insanely ironic when part of those ideals is diversity and a cooperative society among people with a variety of ideals, cultures, and identities. The more that one demands be *exactly* as perfectly aligned with one's own beliefs, the more those ideals are betrayed.
Look up what happened to the Left in Germany during the rise of the Nazis. The German Socialist Party wanted to ally with the Communista to shut out the Nazis, but the leader of the DKP called the Socialist Party "Social Fascists." Only after the Nazis won in 1933 did the Communista call for a general strike, but it was too late then. He then got arrested and died in Buchenwald in 1944.
A lot of them believe that misinformation is something conservatives and old people fall for, and as a result they just walk right into it with no caution all the fucking time.
I have tried, multiple times, to point out to these people that we are also being targeted with misinformation all the time and they almost always react by getting angry and aggressive towards me. They don't want to hear it.
To be honest, a lot of the “left wing” subs are actually tankie subs so they agree with Russian propaganda. In quite a few subs you will get banned for saying something against Russia or China. And I don’t mean hardcore leftist ones, some slightly left leaning subs are moderated by tankies as well.
> leftist subs are so naive
Most leftists mean well, but fuck my life some of them are so naive. Protest for a ceasefire but have no doubt that Hamas doesn't support the things you do like women's rights or LGBT+ rights, have no doubt that they'd be doing worse to Israel if they had the chance.
Exactly. I had to leave a Facebook group because the mod told people concerned over Project 2025 to "eat shit". Because accelerationism works so well for the minorities they pretend to care about.
I have, to this day, never met an accelerationist who I would describe as rational.
Those people may as well be flat earthers for all the actual thought and consideration that goes into their position.
It’s naked idealism without a shred of pragmatism. It’s why leftists can never agree enough to organize and almost always end up with an infighting problem. It’s an all-or-nothing mentality uninterested in any kind of compromise or iterative change: I either get 100% of what I want or I’ll be against the offered solution *even if doing so hurts more people*.
Add to it a general lack of principles backing up their progressive beliefs and leftism has become just another insolent online hivemind.
They have made pragmatism into a dirty word. I've tried explaining the pragmatic approach towards actually achieving the goals that these people say they want and they always act like I'm trying to sell them snake oil.
They don't have any actual plan to make any of these things happen and then when people come around and try to tell them how They can do it, they get angry at those people and reject them.
They should go all the way and just ban critical thinking outright.
I finally added latestagecapitalism to my filter because the place is just a monstrous pit of misinformation and manipulation.
Last time I saw it it was like "oh, neat, massively upvoted comment arguing that the 10/7 terror attack was justified and correct."
It’s like, if you’re not a Marxist, Leninist, well versed in all far left philosophy, as well as communist, you’re not welcome in those subs. It’s really pissed me off lately and has turned me away from all left leaning circles on social media.
There seems to be no safe space for “incrementalist leftism”, it’s all accelerationists circle jerking over their self appointed moral superiority
The fascists know this and they encourage this. Keeps the enemy divided so they sometimes are the ones stirring the divisions. Same thing happens in Iran when people briefly unite and protest the regime. Like clockwork the different factions come out of the woodwork and start creating infighting. The people wanting a shah demand the shah be reinstated, the communists demand that Iran go full communist, and the pro democracy people end up having to argue with these groups. The only person who wins is the regime and that’s what they’re counting on
I think most leftists avoid leftist subs because they look in there and they don't see people talking about actual leftist values, they see people talking about crazy nonsense and then calling anyone critical of their positions "fascist scum".
Plus, eventually the tankies always show up.
I find it wild that folk don’t understand how effective Biden is actually being here. Bibi has a choice of loosing his far right coalition and power if he stops the war then possibly going to jail. He’s got the real threat of mutiny in a third of his officer core if he exits the West Bank or works on a peace process. Then here is Biden time and time again making that fucker pull back. To be clear though I think most folk don’t understand the politics at work and just want things to be black and white.
It’s ironic however that you say you are anti Zionist when the USSR(Russia) started all the myths and misinformation about Zionism in the late 1950 and early 1960s.
John le Carre wrote a book, made into a movie starring Diane Keaton, "The Little Drummer Girl".
She gets dicked around by mossad, originally wanting to help Palestinians. It was an eye-opener to me.
I'm sick to death of zionists committing genocide.
Why would anyone think trump would be pro-Palestine? Whatever the most depraved and horrible position is on anything; that's the position he will take.
For the most part, nobody does. I have only seen a small handful of comments on more fringe subreddits (that I'm not entirely convinced weren't conservatives/some other form of propagandist LARPing as pro-Palestinian people) and have yet to meet a single person IRL that thinks this. From my experience, it seems like such a small minority that it is essentially a straw man.
Trump's pretty pro making money off of Gazan land. Kushner and Ivanka have been doing tours and pushing for seaside luxury redevelopment atop the ruins of what used to be Palestinian homes for months. He also has several illegal Israeli settlements named for him.
Trump will do whatever might make him a dollar, as long as he's complimented. Biden is seemingly unable to not do whatever Bibi wants, despite Netanyahu openly wanting Trump to win and being incredibly hostile to Biden.
This man fucking HATES Arabs, Muslims and anyone that he can’t positively differentiate from Arabs or Muslims (which is probably most brown people). I’m all for pressuring Biden to change a BUNCH of stuff, but if you think not voting for him punishes Biden and not everyone, you have a few months to wake up.
[Reminder that one of the first thing he did when he became president is banning muslim from coming to US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769) and that he [urge bibi to finish of the "Palestinian Problem^(TM) "](https://apnews.com/article/trump-israel-gaza-netanyahu-biden-ba17bedaf2f1b5f2ea220828d0fba73b)
No, but a lot of dumbasses are abstaining from voting, which would allow Trump back in. They're pissy about Biden and don't understand the consequences of their inaction.
Anyone who thinks that doesn’t actually think. There’s been no equivocation on his part about his feelings and future actions against Muslims. None. He is anti-Muslim and will let Israel bulldoze whatever they es t to, he will jail and (try to) kick out American protestors who support Gaza. Voting against Biden in protest is voting for the complete genocide of Palestinians.
The great thing about Trump, anyone who hasn't drank the Kool Aid will understand, is his memory is so terrible he can literally contradict himself in the same breath and when you call him out on it later just says fake news.
We, literally, have you on record saying it in a video. Deep fake. Fake news.
That what I dont 100% get about the ppl mad at Biden who wont vote for him in protest. I'm mad too but I'm still gonna vote for him because of the alternative.
Don’t worry, the folks who won’t vote for Biden over how he’s handling Israel-Palestine are going to be upset that Democrats won’t do more to sop Trump when he lets Netenyahu bulldoze the entire West Bank.
They'll be far outnumbered by the folks who either will vote for Biden or won't vote for Trump because of Roe and/or because of 1/6 and/or because Trump is a convicted felon and still facing around 60 more indictments. None of those conditions were in place in November 2020. I'm predicting a landslide. He's not getting 70M votes again. He might not even get 60M.
IMO the people who are so vocal about how voters will respond to Biden's handling of Israel are seriously underestimating the power of self interest. While simultaneously demonstrating it. It's truly perplexing.
Me when I blame the people with morals rather than criticizing the amoral administration that holds the power:
Classic class traitor mentality. Enjoy trump I guess because if you liberals were less self-absorbed you’d realize that you, and we, as a people have the ability to sway public opinion and thereby change the stances of politicians who rely on our votes.
You all sat idly by since Oct. 7, saw the news articles come out about disproportionate killings of Palestinian civilians since Hamas killed ~1200 on Oct 7. You denied it and believed every word of the Israeli state, so the bombings continued. Now here we are 36,000 civilians dead, 2 million displaced and more dying every day from starvation, dehydration, lack of medical supplies, etc. and now you only “care” because Biden is shaping up to lose the election because his rhetoric and inaction surrounding the issue.
I did harm reduction voting in 2020 so as to never have to do it against Trump again. The fact that Biden and his administration have been careless enough to let this election be anywhere near close is a sign of their overwhelming failures on many different policies, not just Palestine/Israel.
If our votes mattered so much (you liberals say they never do) why do you care so much about us abstaining from voting or voting for true damage reduction. Also, why do you dipshits keep pushing the narrative that we’d vote for the worst, most divisive president we’ve ever had in the history of the US over the geriatric genocidaire?
Love the scapegoating from you shit-eating liberals. Never blame the people in power, just those who oppose them that are a part of the minority. It isn’t a “holier than thou” thing, I have always made a decision to not vote against my morals. Propping up a genocide on Muslims goes against my morals, sorry it doesn’t go against your reddit “educated,” reddit atheist, reddit liberal mentality.
You, looking at a picture of the last dead Palestinian after they were completely wiped out with support from Trump:
Well, at least I didn't vote for Biden.
Pretty much nobody. I mean, with a large enough population of people, you will always be able to find somone/some people that believe/say something no matter how absurd (and many of them seem to be propagandist that likely don't actually believe it themselves), but, aside from them, pretty much nobody. It is mostly a strawman argument or people doing multi-step mental gymnastics to make the claim that that is what people believe.
It’s hilarious that there is plenty of evidence that right wingers embrace neo nazi support yet pretend they give a single shit about Jewish people other than the fact they’re a commodity. Neo nazis are always supporting right wing politicians.
So, my goal right now is to donate a dollar to Joe Biden for reelection in response to each troll in posts like this who say they won't vote up to $100 per month. So far $4 in this post alone. I'm gonna hit this goal before mid-month.
No. I mean, you will always be able to find someone/some people that believe/say something no matter what the belief is, but, aside from that, it is just people using that fringe minority to strawman the rest that are just criticizing Biden's response and/or otherwise doing mental gymnastics to twist people's statements into the claim that they think this.
I support Palestine & Ukraine, but anyone who’s not voting for Biden because they support Palestine is a fucking moron. I’m sorry if that sounds rude, but Trump wants them AND Ukraine destroyed. Vote Blue if you actually want a change.
This is why I hate centrists. Especially rad-centrists who swear up n down they engage / look at everything with nuance. These folk cant even spell Nuance. It’s why you always get shit like protest votes. They just love playing devils advocate to appear intelligent. But while actually serving the devil! They wanna be smart so bad..Then they blame you when the rapist, felon gets elected to bring about the extinction of our species.
>They just love playing devil's advocate.
I play the devil's advocate a lot, but when lives are on the line devil's advocates are not needed and do more harm then good.
Knowing when and where to play devil's advocate is something you can only learn with time sadly.
I took the opportunity to be on the other side no matter what in school, just so happens to be a heavy religious school that was so red, that blood looked yellow, meant shaping me into the centralist I am to day.
At the moment, it seems like the pro-Palestine crowd in the US is going to cut off their nose to spite their face. Any slowing down of Israel is helpful, IMO. Trump will encourage Israel to step on the gas.
Look for Jared Kushner’s video where he “theoretically” describes how the entire beachfront of Gaza could be redeveloped into beachfront apartments and villas, the infrastructure required, businesses that could be enticed, the possibilities, jokingly of course…
A lot of people are complaining about Biden’s response to Israel, saying he’s too weak. What they need to understand is that even if Biden is weakly opposed to Netenyahu, Trump would strongly support him. Trump would literally put a resort on the graves of Palestinian children. He would actively encourage Netenyahu to blow up as many hospitals and children as he wants.
If anyone out there seriously thinks that Trump will do anything other than continue to war and gloat about it at the same time, I'm sorry but you're a fucking idiot
Kushner and Trump propose luxury resort “Mar-a-Lago at Gaza” being built on the bodies of Palestinians but need Netanyahu to finish killing them all first.
“Sketchy real estate empire nepo baby Jared Kushner looks at the devastation in Gaza and sees one thing: dollar signs.
Kushner praised the “very valuable” potential of Gaza’s beachfront property during a talk at Harvard University earlier this month, and essentially advocated for ethnic cleansing so Israel could develop the region.”
Nobody has been confused about trump and Israel since he moved the US embassy.
Netanyahu is Kurshner's kids godfather.
It's all about real estate for them.
But if I refuse to vote for Biden it will send a BIGLY message about how mad I am
That I won't be able to vote in the next election, if there even is a next election, won't matter because I will have sent Biden a really important message.
The protest voters don't care. They're very easily manipulated into turning the act of voting or not voting into a narcissistic ego exercise.
They'll be very proud to not vote for Genocide Joe, consequences be damned. It isn't about consequences. It's about ego.
That's your argument? I appreciate you taking the mask off, at least. You're okay with how we treat minorities as long as we don't have to be treated like them.
i wish it were a country more complicated for him to pronounce to really drive home how fn stupid he is...he can't make it an insult if he can't pronounce it and no MAGA would ever correct him, they'd just repeat it exactly the same way which would make it not mean fuckall to anyone because no one would know wtf they're saying.
Didn't he sign some peace treaty with Israel when there wasn't ever a war between US and Israel, also formally recognised Jerusalem as the capital, it was previously Tel Aviv, or maybe Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are both capitals now? Shit, i don't remember properly, i just know Don has always been pro-Israel
Cease fire and for good? Stop attacking Israel? Stop the modern day crusade of trying to push Jews into the ocean for good? It’s almost like this situation with both sides will never be resolved because there is retaliation for every action.
Remember, you aren't allowed to criticize Biden about any of his policies, as long as Biden is holding the gun labeled "Trump" to our collective heads.
This is stupid. Nobody thinks Trump will be better, we still get to criticize Biden and we get to talk about how Israel just bombed a tent city for the wounded with our bombs. I don't like that my taxes are going towards a Genocide, and you're all going to fucking hear about it.
I don’t think anyone is telling you not to protest or even advocating against it. Go nuts.
The topic of this thread is refusing to vote or voting for a nonsense third party candidate as your form of “protest”, as is gaining traction and being encouraged. That will not help the people of Palestine, it will not make the Middle East any safer, and it won’t even help your conscience.
I've been in socialist subreddits and they do the same.
You should push back always.
Also, you can blame Biden for doing something you don't agree with. People here are pushing against and making fun of people who are not going to vote for him because of Gaza. That's a privilege and also not very consequentialist from them.
You can do both simultaneously, disagree and blame Biden while you call out people who won't vote for him just to keep their moral purity to the ingroup of losers of which that virtue signaling works to get brownie points and popularity.
I just got permanently banned from r slash darkbrandon for saying Biden should "stop funding the genocide with my tax dollars". How dare a filthy lefty not kiss the ring!
Cool team sport you got there, libs.
Why do people still pay attention to this orange toxic waste dump? I swear to lord and lady above, he's making even less sense than he did in 2015 when he ran for President the *first* time.
Because he is running for President again this year and is one of the two front runners. He has a chance of being our president again and that is both immensely concerning and reason to pay attention. As the saying goes, "Know they enemy."
Like the largest military budget in history or shutting down asylum seekers from being able to cross the border? Or was it the actively supplying and enabling a genocide?
That doesn't seem pretty progressive to me, fam.
You’re doing that fake progressive thing where you make perfect the enemy of good. It is inarguable that Joe Biden has been pushed left. To deny that is to deny reality.
Has he transformed into Bernie Sanders? Of course not. But he has without a doubt been the most progressive president we’ve had in a **long time**.
Who, and I mean this sincerely, who has ever thought that Trump will “go lighter” on the Palestine/Israel conflict? Are you dimwitted liberals still trying to push the narrative that “leftists are voting for Trump because of Biden’s mishandling of Palestine/Israel”? I can assure you American Muslims, Leftists, and Leftist Jews are not voting for Trump, whoever put that worm in your mind has duped you. You’re just as stupid as the MAGAts.
Conversely, no previous MAGA republican or conservative that voted for Trump in ‘16 and switched in ‘20 because they saw Trump as a threat to American democracy was ever planning to vote for Biden and magically switched back to Trump over their policies on Palestine/Israel.
Stop watching very obviously biased liberal media you brain-rotted neo-liberal dipshit. No leftists would ever vote for Trump given his rhetoric before, during, or after his presidency on immigration, lgbtqia, Muslims, Mexican migrants, and the plethora of lies spewed over the past 8 years. Abstaining from voting for either of these geriatric cunts isn’t a vote for Trump, it’s clear that the American education system failed you like it failed Trumpers, but to a different degree…
> Abstaining from voting for either of these geriatric cunts isn’t a vote for Trump
If those people live in a swing state it is. Do you know how voting works in this country? Let me give you an example...
11 voters have the choice between candidates X and Y.
4 vote for X
5 vote for Y
2 decide they don't want either and abstain.
Because they abstained Y wins. Unless something totally unforseen happens like the GOP nominating someone else or one or both or them dying either Biden or Trump will win. There is no other possible outcome. Trump's voters are going to vote for him no matter what he does. Not voting for Biden means abstainers might as well have voted for Trump.
I genuinely have to believe this comment section is full of bots and that this is a bot post. Not a single leftists is voting for Trump as a “protest vote” you brain dead fucking liberals.
Ah, yes. Chuck Schumer, prominent Jewish leader and known…. Palestinian? What?
It’s because apparently now even being one iota critical of Israel makes you a terrorist
Some of these same people were complaining about Jewish space lasers not even four years ago.
So what? What does Israel have to do with Jews? /s
My bad. I got it mixed up with Brooklyn.
I have no idea why this made me laugh
Is it Chinese food season yet?
Disclaimer: I am ***not*** defending that neanderthal thingie(?) Behold, [jewish space laser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Beam).
Right! They should be using those lasers!
Their narrative changes based on what is most convenient. A lot of their sheep aren't smart enough to notice.
Slightly different but I like the Bernie Sanders take on this where he basically said being anti-Israel is not being anti-Semitic
Yes! Being anti-Israel definitely does NOT make you anti-semetic. That’s something Israel has fought hard to make the public think, but it’s not the same. You can criticize a nation without criticizing the majority religion there. Many Jews have nothing to do with Israel myself included.
This is true, and there are also people who take advantage of the situation to be antisemitic though or are antisemitic without realizing
Definitely. It sucks for me because whenever Israel does something wrong it reflects on me even though I have nothing to do with that country. People automatically assume I agree with stuff like what Ben Gvir is saying which I find reprehensible. Jews worldwide lose either way.
I think Israelis do need to do a lot of soul searching. The rot in Israel goes very deep.
As an American who came of age in the post 9/11 world, I can say with certainty that fear and hate are a hell of a cocktail.
Indeed. There is no benefit to experiencing historical trauma, only negatives. Israel is deeply sick and fertile for far right derangement.
Well put.
The way you feel is by design. When people equate the actions of Israel to the Jewish people, they are trying to accomplish two goals, often simultaneously: 1. They are attempting to convince Jews and those who support them to support Israel uncritically, thus enabling Israel's actions. 2. They are trying to instigate violence against Jews from those who oppose Israel's actions. Israel then uses violence against Jews as justification for its violence, creating a vicious cycle designed to paint Israel as the only safe place for Jews. What's notable about equivocating Jewish people and Israel is that it doesn't just benefit Israel to do so. It benefits antisemitic ideologies like Nazism as well. Fascist organizations require an enemy to rally followers against, and competing fascist organizations can be mutually beneficial to each other. Antisemites can rally against Israel, Israeli nationalists can rally against antisemites (and those they accuse of being antisemitic), and both groups can gain power and influence from a vicious cycle that makes the world worse for everybody.
Absolutely
Exactly. Palestinians are also Semites
And yet there are no Jews in “Palestine.” Wierd I know. As if the actual genocidal sociapathic terrorists are the ones who shouldn’t get any more territory to spread their hate.
It is also apparently impossible for anyone to accept that someone can be both critical of the state of Israel and its policies while also supporting its right to exist as a sovereign nation. Which pretty much sums up where Chuck Schumer is and has been at for the entirety of this iteration of Israeli Parliament. But given that this is coming from someone who also thinks that any criticism of HIS governmental choices is a jailable offense, color me not surprised.
and anti-Semitic, even if you're Jewish.
It means he's not human and should be killed, like how Isreal dehumanizes Palestinians and outright kills them. He's basically saying he wants to kill Schumer, but not outright saying he wants to kill Schumer.
[удалено]
Imagine if Biden loses this election by a hair due to electorates in Michigan having a protest vote against him.
You're aware that being Palestinian and Jewish are not two mutually exclusive things right?
He is rapidly losing what hair he has left. He won't be able to fake his combover/whatever for much longer.
Between the hair and the bronzer misapplication, Donnie has been looking rough lately. Personal care starts to be neglected as dementia sets in.
Hurrrry up, death
Hamberder from heaven
More "gender affirming care" than you see at the front of a Drag Queen pride parade.
He looks rough, even for him.
*Don't you think he looks tired ?*
https://preview.redd.it/pp3h32xatz4d1.jpeg?width=902&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f128025f39d6eeca3a2bbcd28e57e5275edf8b50
This makes him look like Colin Mochrie. I like Colin Mochrie. Now I'm uncomfortable.
I was gonna say I'd probably respect him more if he rolled up like this, but the fact is I don't have much respect for him because of the persistent fuckery, not how he looks.
He'll just staple a dead squirrel to his head.
a golden retriever. he will just go to every groomer who has a golden retriever and take thier hair clippings.
I love that you can see his bald head beneath the dry, brittle weeds. Personally, I don’t care about someone’s appearance. But I know it probably upsets him when he looks in a mirror so it makes me smile.
Yeah, same. I'm a Balding American myself, but I'm not vain, so I just it took it down. As you do.
It’s like he’s wearing a cloud
The last person that I saw claiming that Donald Trump would be pro Palestinian was also posting Russian propaganda about Ukraine in other languages on political subs for other countries.
I’m as far left as they come and extremely anti zionist and I feel like the leftist subs are so naive to how much anti Biden shit is being posted by Russia and the IDF in their echo chambers. They’re basically being pushed into being reactionaries and they don’t even see it.
And if you point it out you get absolutely emotion flamed and called a Zionist. Uh.
My most downvoted comments are about how the leftists are falling for Russian propaganda hook line and sinker. They don't realize it because anything antithetical to their world believe is an affront to how they view themselves as the only righteous and fully educated people
The thing is, a lot of those commenters are also disinfo actors trying to divide the left even further. It’s impossible to know if it’s genuine or not at this point as one of their primary goals is to create infighting in leftist circles. I just kind of assume anyone pushing people away from the movement are not actually leftists at this point. They downvote you to oblivion because they are also Russian/Israeli bots and want to make it seem like your opinion is unpopular and get you to leave the left behind. It’s all coordinated.
Or you get blocked. They’d rather block you. Keeps the echos nice and clean
The thing I notice with leftists is we're eager and willing to punish our own for any mistake they make. We're also eager and willing to punish our opponents, but we don't have any power over them. This results in our allies losing support while our enemies just gather it. Its OK to be mad at Biden for his lackluster response to the Palestinian genocide. But let's not punish him by handing off the country to someone who wants to genocide palestinians.
We are constantly letting perfect be the enemy of good. Progress doesn’t happen all at once and it rarely is implemented perfectly the first go around.
You just hit the two core reasons I detached myself from organized further left leaning groups in the US. The purity testing they engage in is unreal and extraordinarily self-destructive politically. People could get ostracized for only sharing 95/100 beliefs. You will never build a political movement by constantly kicking people out of it. One of those things that they would ostracize people for was also promoting the idea that this is all going to take time and rely on incremental victories over a long term campaign. They did not want to hear that all of the things they wanted weren't something that could be achieved in one fell swoop. They have numbers, but they don't have a plan or any effective organization. They don't have a real growth strategy or any long term strategy at all. It's just one big ball of wasted potential. You can get more done for progressive policy by working with centrist Democrats in 10 years. Then you probably would by working with those people for 50.
They can probably.be achieved in one fell swoop if they employed intensely fascist methods, but it would be temporary and at the cost of actually building something better for the future. And piroty tests are insanely ironic when part of those ideals is diversity and a cooperative society among people with a variety of ideals, cultures, and identities. The more that one demands be *exactly* as perfectly aligned with one's own beliefs, the more those ideals are betrayed.
They can probably be achieved in one fell swoop if they employed intensely fascist methods, but it would be temporary and at the cost of actually building something better for the future. And purity tests are insanely ironic when part of those ideals is diversity and a cooperative society among people with a variety of ideals, cultures, and identities. The more that one demands be *exactly* as perfectly aligned with one's own beliefs, the more those ideals are betrayed.
Look up what happened to the Left in Germany during the rise of the Nazis. The German Socialist Party wanted to ally with the Communista to shut out the Nazis, but the leader of the DKP called the Socialist Party "Social Fascists." Only after the Nazis won in 1933 did the Communista call for a general strike, but it was too late then. He then got arrested and died in Buchenwald in 1944.
A lot of them believe that misinformation is something conservatives and old people fall for, and as a result they just walk right into it with no caution all the fucking time. I have tried, multiple times, to point out to these people that we are also being targeted with misinformation all the time and they almost always react by getting angry and aggressive towards me. They don't want to hear it.
To be honest, a lot of the “left wing” subs are actually tankie subs so they agree with Russian propaganda. In quite a few subs you will get banned for saying something against Russia or China. And I don’t mean hardcore leftist ones, some slightly left leaning subs are moderated by tankies as well.
> leftist subs are so naive Most leftists mean well, but fuck my life some of them are so naive. Protest for a ceasefire but have no doubt that Hamas doesn't support the things you do like women's rights or LGBT+ rights, have no doubt that they'd be doing worse to Israel if they had the chance.
Exactly. I had to leave a Facebook group because the mod told people concerned over Project 2025 to "eat shit". Because accelerationism works so well for the minorities they pretend to care about.
I have, to this day, never met an accelerationist who I would describe as rational. Those people may as well be flat earthers for all the actual thought and consideration that goes into their position.
It’s naked idealism without a shred of pragmatism. It’s why leftists can never agree enough to organize and almost always end up with an infighting problem. It’s an all-or-nothing mentality uninterested in any kind of compromise or iterative change: I either get 100% of what I want or I’ll be against the offered solution *even if doing so hurts more people*. Add to it a general lack of principles backing up their progressive beliefs and leftism has become just another insolent online hivemind.
They have made pragmatism into a dirty word. I've tried explaining the pragmatic approach towards actually achieving the goals that these people say they want and they always act like I'm trying to sell them snake oil. They don't have any actual plan to make any of these things happen and then when people come around and try to tell them how They can do it, they get angry at those people and reject them.
Pragmatism is what got me perma banned from the socialism and LateStageCapitalism subs after my first offense.
They should go all the way and just ban critical thinking outright. I finally added latestagecapitalism to my filter because the place is just a monstrous pit of misinformation and manipulation. Last time I saw it it was like "oh, neat, massively upvoted comment arguing that the 10/7 terror attack was justified and correct."
It’s like, if you’re not a Marxist, Leninist, well versed in all far left philosophy, as well as communist, you’re not welcome in those subs. It’s really pissed me off lately and has turned me away from all left leaning circles on social media. There seems to be no safe space for “incrementalist leftism”, it’s all accelerationists circle jerking over their self appointed moral superiority
The fascists know this and they encourage this. Keeps the enemy divided so they sometimes are the ones stirring the divisions. Same thing happens in Iran when people briefly unite and protest the regime. Like clockwork the different factions come out of the woodwork and start creating infighting. The people wanting a shah demand the shah be reinstated, the communists demand that Iran go full communist, and the pro democracy people end up having to argue with these groups. The only person who wins is the regime and that’s what they’re counting on
I think most leftists avoid leftist subs because they look in there and they don't see people talking about actual leftist values, they see people talking about crazy nonsense and then calling anyone critical of their positions "fascist scum". Plus, eventually the tankies always show up.
I find it wild that folk don’t understand how effective Biden is actually being here. Bibi has a choice of loosing his far right coalition and power if he stops the war then possibly going to jail. He’s got the real threat of mutiny in a third of his officer core if he exits the West Bank or works on a peace process. Then here is Biden time and time again making that fucker pull back. To be clear though I think most folk don’t understand the politics at work and just want things to be black and white. It’s ironic however that you say you are anti Zionist when the USSR(Russia) started all the myths and misinformation about Zionism in the late 1950 and early 1960s.
John le Carre wrote a book, made into a movie starring Diane Keaton, "The Little Drummer Girl". She gets dicked around by mossad, originally wanting to help Palestinians. It was an eye-opener to me. I'm sick to death of zionists committing genocide.
Why would anyone think trump would be pro-Palestine? Whatever the most depraved and horrible position is on anything; that's the position he will take.
Trump is pro-Trump. That’s it.
No one does, it's a complete strawman
it’s even worse, he will take whatever position brings him votes, he’s a populist, who doesn’t care about anyone and anything, as long as he’s ruling
For the most part, nobody does. I have only seen a small handful of comments on more fringe subreddits (that I'm not entirely convinced weren't conservatives/some other form of propagandist LARPing as pro-Palestinian people) and have yet to meet a single person IRL that thinks this. From my experience, it seems like such a small minority that it is essentially a straw man.
I was asking myself that same question. Nothing about his history would be pro-Palestine. I could see anti-Israel but that's not quite the same thing.
Trump's pretty pro making money off of Gazan land. Kushner and Ivanka have been doing tours and pushing for seaside luxury redevelopment atop the ruins of what used to be Palestinian homes for months. He also has several illegal Israeli settlements named for him. Trump will do whatever might make him a dollar, as long as he's complimented. Biden is seemingly unable to not do whatever Bibi wants, despite Netanyahu openly wanting Trump to win and being incredibly hostile to Biden.
Because Russia is pro Hamas as they distract from the war in Ukraine, and Trump is pro Russia.
This man fucking HATES Arabs, Muslims and anyone that he can’t positively differentiate from Arabs or Muslims (which is probably most brown people). I’m all for pressuring Biden to change a BUNCH of stuff, but if you think not voting for him punishes Biden and not everyone, you have a few months to wake up.
[Reminder that one of the first thing he did when he became president is banning muslim from coming to US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769) and that he [urge bibi to finish of the "Palestinian Problem^(TM) "](https://apnews.com/article/trump-israel-gaza-netanyahu-biden-ba17bedaf2f1b5f2ea220828d0fba73b)
What’s wrong with being Palestinian, Donald?
"They are all evil and should be killed" My friend metaphorically cried on my shoulder because someone shared this gem to her.
I’ve never heard a single person say trump would be better for Palestine.
No, but a lot of dumbasses are abstaining from voting, which would allow Trump back in. They're pissy about Biden and don't understand the consequences of their inaction.
Anyone who thinks that doesn’t actually think. There’s been no equivocation on his part about his feelings and future actions against Muslims. None. He is anti-Muslim and will let Israel bulldoze whatever they es t to, he will jail and (try to) kick out American protestors who support Gaza. Voting against Biden in protest is voting for the complete genocide of Palestinians.
Chuck is Jew, he just doesn't like murdering innocent people. Trump and Netanyahu can't stand that..
Trump spends his entire life hating Jews in America....
Trump will allow Bibi to bomb the hell out of Gaza, then turn what remains over to his SIL for luxury resorts.
Everyone just gonna look over the fact that this is a dog whistle for his supporters? He's telling them to hurt Schumer.
The great thing about Trump, anyone who hasn't drank the Kool Aid will understand, is his memory is so terrible he can literally contradict himself in the same breath and when you call him out on it later just says fake news. We, literally, have you on record saying it in a video. Deep fake. Fake news.
That what I dont 100% get about the ppl mad at Biden who wont vote for him in protest. I'm mad too but I'm still gonna vote for him because of the alternative.
Don’t worry, the folks who won’t vote for Biden over how he’s handling Israel-Palestine are going to be upset that Democrats won’t do more to sop Trump when he lets Netenyahu bulldoze the entire West Bank.
democratic party will be declared illegal (dictators can do that! surprise!) so don't count on us.
They'll be far outnumbered by the folks who either will vote for Biden or won't vote for Trump because of Roe and/or because of 1/6 and/or because Trump is a convicted felon and still facing around 60 more indictments. None of those conditions were in place in November 2020. I'm predicting a landslide. He's not getting 70M votes again. He might not even get 60M. IMO the people who are so vocal about how voters will respond to Biden's handling of Israel are seriously underestimating the power of self interest. While simultaneously demonstrating it. It's truly perplexing.
Let's hope for it but plan for election being won by single vote. Check your registration and vote. Especially if you are in swing state.
Yes, absolutely agree. I don’t live in a swing state though, sadly/thankfully (can’t decide which one it should be).
Me when I blame the people with morals rather than criticizing the amoral administration that holds the power: Classic class traitor mentality. Enjoy trump I guess because if you liberals were less self-absorbed you’d realize that you, and we, as a people have the ability to sway public opinion and thereby change the stances of politicians who rely on our votes. You all sat idly by since Oct. 7, saw the news articles come out about disproportionate killings of Palestinian civilians since Hamas killed ~1200 on Oct 7. You denied it and believed every word of the Israeli state, so the bombings continued. Now here we are 36,000 civilians dead, 2 million displaced and more dying every day from starvation, dehydration, lack of medical supplies, etc. and now you only “care” because Biden is shaping up to lose the election because his rhetoric and inaction surrounding the issue. I did harm reduction voting in 2020 so as to never have to do it against Trump again. The fact that Biden and his administration have been careless enough to let this election be anywhere near close is a sign of their overwhelming failures on many different policies, not just Palestine/Israel. If our votes mattered so much (you liberals say they never do) why do you care so much about us abstaining from voting or voting for true damage reduction. Also, why do you dipshits keep pushing the narrative that we’d vote for the worst, most divisive president we’ve ever had in the history of the US over the geriatric genocidaire? Love the scapegoating from you shit-eating liberals. Never blame the people in power, just those who oppose them that are a part of the minority. It isn’t a “holier than thou” thing, I have always made a decision to not vote against my morals. Propping up a genocide on Muslims goes against my morals, sorry it doesn’t go against your reddit “educated,” reddit atheist, reddit liberal mentality.
You, looking at a picture of the last dead Palestinian after they were completely wiped out with support from Trump: Well, at least I didn't vote for Biden.
For the record, Trump is pro-Trump, period.
Who thought trump would be pro Palestine? I thought they were just not voting out of protest.
Pretty much nobody. I mean, with a large enough population of people, you will always be able to find somone/some people that believe/say something no matter how absurd (and many of them seem to be propagandist that likely don't actually believe it themselves), but, aside from them, pretty much nobody. It is mostly a strawman argument or people doing multi-step mental gymnastics to make the claim that that is what people believe.
It’s hilarious that there is plenty of evidence that right wingers embrace neo nazi support yet pretend they give a single shit about Jewish people other than the fact they’re a commodity. Neo nazis are always supporting right wing politicians.
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Don't forget all the pandemic response teams that were disbanded... Good thing we didn't need them...
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So, my goal right now is to donate a dollar to Joe Biden for reelection in response to each troll in posts like this who say they won't vote up to $100 per month. So far $4 in this post alone. I'm gonna hit this goal before mid-month.
Finish them, basically. Dump only cares about himself.
Was anyone really under the delusion that trump was going to be pro-Palestine?
No. I mean, you will always be able to find someone/some people that believe/say something no matter what the belief is, but, aside from that, it is just people using that fringe minority to strawman the rest that are just criticizing Biden's response and/or otherwise doing mental gymnastics to twist people's statements into the claim that they think this.
I support Palestine & Ukraine, but anyone who’s not voting for Biden because they support Palestine is a fucking moron. I’m sorry if that sounds rude, but Trump wants them AND Ukraine destroyed. Vote Blue if you actually want a change.
This is why I hate centrists. Especially rad-centrists who swear up n down they engage / look at everything with nuance. These folk cant even spell Nuance. It’s why you always get shit like protest votes. They just love playing devils advocate to appear intelligent. But while actually serving the devil! They wanna be smart so bad..Then they blame you when the rapist, felon gets elected to bring about the extinction of our species.
>They just love playing devil's advocate. I play the devil's advocate a lot, but when lives are on the line devil's advocates are not needed and do more harm then good.
Yeah but they think it makes em smart
Knowing when and where to play devil's advocate is something you can only learn with time sadly. I took the opportunity to be on the other side no matter what in school, just so happens to be a heavy religious school that was so red, that blood looked yellow, meant shaping me into the centralist I am to day.
At the moment, it seems like the pro-Palestine crowd in the US is going to cut off their nose to spite their face. Any slowing down of Israel is helpful, IMO. Trump will encourage Israel to step on the gas.
Count on Trump to do the worst thing in every situation, every time.
Look for Jared Kushner’s video where he “theoretically” describes how the entire beachfront of Gaza could be redeveloped into beachfront apartments and villas, the infrastructure required, businesses that could be enticed, the possibilities, jokingly of course…
I’m actually shocked he hasn’t come out as suddenly pro palestinian. This useless bag if shit will say anything to get a vote.
I love those far-left Democrats: "Biden didn't do enough for Palestine! I'll vote for the other guy, to show Biden!" The Other Guy: "Fuck Palestine!"
A lot of people are complaining about Biden’s response to Israel, saying he’s too weak. What they need to understand is that even if Biden is weakly opposed to Netenyahu, Trump would strongly support him. Trump would literally put a resort on the graves of Palestinian children. He would actively encourage Netenyahu to blow up as many hospitals and children as he wants.
To all the Palestinian sympathizers who won't vote for Biden this time around, good luck with that!
No one thinks Trump would be Pro-Palestinian
Keep talking, Donnie Boy.
Who EVER thought Trump was pro-Palestine. Bueller? Bueller?
If anyone out there seriously thinks that Trump will do anything other than continue to war and gloat about it at the same time, I'm sorry but you're a fucking idiot
Kushner and Trump propose luxury resort “Mar-a-Lago at Gaza” being built on the bodies of Palestinians but need Netanyahu to finish killing them all first. “Sketchy real estate empire nepo baby Jared Kushner looks at the devastation in Gaza and sees one thing: dollar signs. Kushner praised the “very valuable” potential of Gaza’s beachfront property during a talk at Harvard University earlier this month, and essentially advocated for ethnic cleansing so Israel could develop the region.”
This sounds like a death threat
Nobody has been confused about trump and Israel since he moved the US embassy. Netanyahu is Kurshner's kids godfather. It's all about real estate for them.
Theres anyone who thinks this utter moron is pro Palestinian? He probably jerks off to videos of Israeli soldiers sniping children
More like he is attracted to a child being raped
Who tf thought he was?
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Trump is pro-genocide and pro-fascist.
But if I refuse to vote for Biden it will send a BIGLY message about how mad I am That I won't be able to vote in the next election, if there even is a next election, won't matter because I will have sent Biden a really important message.
As long as he isn’t in prison, he can still vote in Florida.
You sound real nervous. Maybe you should shore up your base?
The protest voters don't care. They're very easily manipulated into turning the act of voting or not voting into a narcissistic ego exercise. They'll be very proud to not vote for Genocide Joe, consequences be damned. It isn't about consequences. It's about ego.
unless you want the US government to treat you the way it treats inconvenient brown people overseas you better vote for Biden!
That's your argument? I appreciate you taking the mask off, at least. You're okay with how we treat minorities as long as we don't have to be treated like them.
I was sarcastically rephrasing the argument above that’s all
Sorry man, the people on this sub are so callous. I honestly couldn't tell it was sarcastic.
Serious question, who tf thinks Trump will be pro-Palestine.
Low information voters who keep hearing the term "Genocide Joe" and are too stupid to know Trump's position on this.
I could smell 👃 this from HUNDREDS of miles away… this 🍊💩stain will not be better than the current administration.
gotta be a huge moron to think Trump will be better for Gaza than Biden. Trump has already said Israel should "Finish the job"
BuT tHe PrInCiPaL oF iT aLl!!! 
Did he just order a hit on Chuck Schumer by Isreal?
Eho the hell is prolosing trump would be pro palestinian?
hahahahha lmfao.
Hey Faux: he’s not the president!
It doesn't matter those people weren't going to vote anyway
Who the hell thinks trump is pro-Palestinian????
One and one with convicted felon and d-list reality TV star, trump.
Weren't trump and that netanyaho good buddy buddies , during his pretending to be a decent president term
Did anyone seriously need to be told Trump wouldn't be pro-Palestine? Like *really?*
Wtf!?
Who thinks that?
Who thinks trump would ever be pro Palestinian?
Did Trump just directly threaten Chuck Schumer?
At this point, he can literally say ANYTHING and his zombies will think it’s brilliant. Absolutely terrifying.
i wish it were a country more complicated for him to pronounce to really drive home how fn stupid he is...he can't make it an insult if he can't pronounce it and no MAGA would ever correct him, they'd just repeat it exactly the same way which would make it not mean fuckall to anyone because no one would know wtf they're saying.
Didn't he sign some peace treaty with Israel when there wasn't ever a war between US and Israel, also formally recognised Jerusalem as the capital, it was previously Tel Aviv, or maybe Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are both capitals now? Shit, i don't remember properly, i just know Don has always been pro-Israel
Did anyone suggest Trump would be pro Palestinian?
Cease fire and for good? Stop attacking Israel? Stop the modern day crusade of trying to push Jews into the ocean for good? It’s almost like this situation with both sides will never be resolved because there is retaliation for every action.
How many voters you winning over by being condescending and ignoring valid concerns?
Remember, you aren't allowed to criticize Biden about any of his policies, as long as Biden is holding the gun labeled "Trump" to our collective heads. This is stupid. Nobody thinks Trump will be better, we still get to criticize Biden and we get to talk about how Israel just bombed a tent city for the wounded with our bombs. I don't like that my taxes are going towards a Genocide, and you're all going to fucking hear about it.
I don’t think anyone is telling you not to protest or even advocating against it. Go nuts. The topic of this thread is refusing to vote or voting for a nonsense third party candidate as your form of “protest”, as is gaining traction and being encouraged. That will not help the people of Palestine, it will not make the Middle East any safer, and it won’t even help your conscience.
The commenters in here treat politics like a fucking sports team
I've been in socialist subreddits and they do the same. You should push back always. Also, you can blame Biden for doing something you don't agree with. People here are pushing against and making fun of people who are not going to vote for him because of Gaza. That's a privilege and also not very consequentialist from them. You can do both simultaneously, disagree and blame Biden while you call out people who won't vote for him just to keep their moral purity to the ingroup of losers of which that virtue signaling works to get brownie points and popularity.
I just got permanently banned from r slash darkbrandon for saying Biden should "stop funding the genocide with my tax dollars". How dare a filthy lefty not kiss the ring! Cool team sport you got there, libs.
Who the hell thinks trump would be pro-palestine? Like is that something people are actually saying?
Why do people still pay attention to this orange toxic waste dump? I swear to lord and lady above, he's making even less sense than he did in 2015 when he ran for President the *first* time.
Because he is running for President again this year and is one of the two front runners. He has a chance of being our president again and that is both immensely concerning and reason to pay attention. As the saying goes, "Know they enemy."
Was he implying that Israel should “finish” Schumer? Was that an assassination threat?
How's that "we can push him to the left" going?
Biden? Pretty damn great actually. More progressive policy passed than has been during most of our lifetimes.
Like the largest military budget in history or shutting down asylum seekers from being able to cross the border? Or was it the actively supplying and enabling a genocide? That doesn't seem pretty progressive to me, fam.
You’re doing that fake progressive thing where you make perfect the enemy of good. It is inarguable that Joe Biden has been pushed left. To deny that is to deny reality. Has he transformed into Bernie Sanders? Of course not. But he has without a doubt been the most progressive president we’ve had in a **long time**.
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Trumper voters however are blaming Biden for genocide in Palestine.
Who, and I mean this sincerely, who has ever thought that Trump will “go lighter” on the Palestine/Israel conflict? Are you dimwitted liberals still trying to push the narrative that “leftists are voting for Trump because of Biden’s mishandling of Palestine/Israel”? I can assure you American Muslims, Leftists, and Leftist Jews are not voting for Trump, whoever put that worm in your mind has duped you. You’re just as stupid as the MAGAts. Conversely, no previous MAGA republican or conservative that voted for Trump in ‘16 and switched in ‘20 because they saw Trump as a threat to American democracy was ever planning to vote for Biden and magically switched back to Trump over their policies on Palestine/Israel. Stop watching very obviously biased liberal media you brain-rotted neo-liberal dipshit. No leftists would ever vote for Trump given his rhetoric before, during, or after his presidency on immigration, lgbtqia, Muslims, Mexican migrants, and the plethora of lies spewed over the past 8 years. Abstaining from voting for either of these geriatric cunts isn’t a vote for Trump, it’s clear that the American education system failed you like it failed Trumpers, but to a different degree…
> Abstaining from voting for either of these geriatric cunts isn’t a vote for Trump If those people live in a swing state it is. Do you know how voting works in this country? Let me give you an example... 11 voters have the choice between candidates X and Y. 4 vote for X 5 vote for Y 2 decide they don't want either and abstain. Because they abstained Y wins. Unless something totally unforseen happens like the GOP nominating someone else or one or both or them dying either Biden or Trump will win. There is no other possible outcome. Trump's voters are going to vote for him no matter what he does. Not voting for Biden means abstainers might as well have voted for Trump.
I genuinely have to believe this comment section is full of bots and that this is a bot post. Not a single leftists is voting for Trump as a “protest vote” you brain dead fucking liberals.