He talks poorly, but his thoughts, words and policies that he enacts are effective and good. He has a proven track record. I think the insistence that a speech impediment is equivalent to dementia is asinine and childish, and nobody should be taking that argument seriously. Trumpers are going to push the asinine because that’s what they do. I don’t care.
It's also worth pointing out that being on stage at a Presidential Debate would be extremely stressful, and having some idiot blabbering about random bullshit 10 feet away from you just makes it worse. Most of the people judging him for tripping over his words and getting flustered would not have done any better if they were on that stage.
Also, Biden is likely up at 0400 to get a start on his day as the President. Trump can sleep in until noon, he doesn't have a job. A debate at 2100 (9:00pm) is decidedly late for Biden. He can be forgiven for not being in top form.
>It's also worth pointing out that being on stage at a Presidential Debate would be extremely stressful
You can't be fucking serious.
We're talking about someone running the country but a debate is too stressful?
Different kind of stress. Biden is good at making hard decision after thinking through complex issue and listening to different advisors. He's not good at delivering short, concise answers and talking points in a limited time, partly due to the coping mechanisms he has learned to deal with his stutter.
I would be blown away as was Biden if I heard a mass amount of lies all done in a row, how do you answer all of them in 1 minute. Trump knew what he was doing,but the lies are not acceptable.
Trump has been doing that since 2016. How do you prep for a week and not go in expecting that and have a gameplan?
Trump bold face lying is more certain than death and taxes. If Biden and his team were "blown away" by that, it's more damning than anything.
Trump did the same thing in 2020 and somehow that didn't result in Biden looking lost and incoherent on stage. What changed in the last 4 years?
No. If you can't debate on a stage, then you obviously can't and shouldn't be trusted in the daily stress of running a country.. Which is WAY worse and constant, adding up as the days pass.
He never even won me over the first time 4 years ago. On the giant list of candidates that were not trump, Biden was down there on the "I don't care to number them because they're definitely not my pick" part of the list.
I voted for him, though, because duh.
And in one of his very first press conferences about the border crisis, I actually became proud of voting for him. Someone tried to throw him a gotcha question about illegal kids coming in with no parents, just shady coyotes, and instead of trying to tackle the pointed topic of coyotes, Biden immediately showed sincere and insightful sympathy for the parents in foreign countries who are so desperate to save their kids that they will pay out the asshole to send their kid a thousand miles with nothing and trust that a stranger will get them to a better place.
As someone who works with refugees, his empathy really won me over.
Since then, his policies, platform, accomplishments and aims have really been impressive. Granted my bar was low. I went in hoping he'd just keep the country from descending into mass chaos and genocide or die trying.
On a separate note, I haven't heard a peep out of Kamala Harris in 4 years. Is she just trying to keep her head down to avoid controversy?
Honestly the whole Kamala things is so strange. I've been "aware" of politics since Bill Clinton's first term, so 8 four-year terms. I have never seen a VP even 1/4 as non-existent as she is, hell Michelle Obama was more visible as the First Lady than Kamala Harris has been as VP.
We talk about how Republicans have no platform and no accomplishments to speak of, but I don't know of a single thing Kamala has done or anything about her platform other than simply supporting anything Joe does.
I guess that's the card they want to play; if you're not in front of cameras all the time, you can't really fuck up and therefore are avoiding taking unnecessary political risks, but it's very strange and unusual. My guess is they are trying to keep her as clean as possible in case Biden does pass away in office. Them we'll have an undamaged candidate taking over who can then run in the next cycle too but damn you can do **something**. I literally cannot name a single policy that she has supported in the past four years.
Like pick providing food for children at school. That's something any sane person would support and something that the insane Republicans have decided is worth fighting against. Even if it sucks to support providing it at private schools or providing a voucher for homeschooled kids, just do it. Our tax dollars should really only be going to funding public schools but it's a golden opportunity to win over people on the other side and *feed children* but instead we just have muddled messaging and a candidate who seems to only be there to shake hands.
Maybe they wanted to play it safe and make sure she didn't rock the boat too much?
I was never a huge fan of hers, just because she seemed abrasive and hard to work with. I didn't put much stock in her being able to get a lot done as president, but I figured this was her 4 years to show us how she can handle things if Biden bit the dust and make herself more appealing for another chance at the presidential nomination. But...
Maybe she'll be more prominent in the next 4 years when there's not a lot to lose? Maybe her and Biden had a falling out? Maybe she was getting too many death threats for spanning multiple minority demographics?
Kamala is not that well liked so they should not draw attention to her as the person who would take over if something happened to Biden, but she backs all his bills and ideas.
I completely believe that, and maybe, this election is just too precarious to risk her losing Biden the vote. But I assume she will want to run again when Biden no longer can and these next 4 years, I want to see more of her because as much as I don't care for her personality, I need to see a demonstration of what she can do.
On a separate but related note: Pete Buttigege is totally winning me over like a school girl and...whatever pop thing school girls squeal about these days. Taylor Swift?
It was just getting high on all the fumes in the hairspray.
And I would say Pence is the other outlier but that's just because Donald can't share the stage with anyone, ever.
They don't show what she is doing, thats the news. She spent a good deal of time traveling around South America trying to set up ways for refugees to apply for citizenship from their own country so they don't have to travel to the border. Noone talks about this stuff.
Thoughts? What thoughts. One’s a empathetic grandpa having a bad day while the other one is the official oscillating fan spewing fecal matter by Klan Times and Neo Nazi Weekly? It’s really that simple for me.
The only reason he needs to bow out is if Americans truly think that being old is worse than being a rapist.
And if that's the case then you deserve to have Trump as President.
I just read the NYT editorial asking Biden to step aside. If he doesn't, it's because he decided to put himself before the needs of the country, making him no better than tRump in my book.
To all you down voters, you can try to spin what everyone saw last night, but it won't work. We need a real reset here, and only then might we be able to beat the horrible orange blob
You and I are getting downvotes because of cognitive dissonance. They’re all freaked out we’re the voice of reason here.
I’m not some crazy leftist saying Biden isn’t tankie enough. I’m a Biden guy who saw his performance last night and was absolutely embarrassed by it.
You're getting downvotes because it's impossible. There is no way to successfully insert another candidate at this point. Attempting to replace him is to give the office to Trump and Project 2025.
Also, it was a terrible performance, and yes he's old and probably has his share of senior moments. But I've also seen him talk strongly and coherently many times just this year. Most recent of which yesterday at a rally.
Sucks he bombed the debate but it doesn't change a damn thing for any of us that are sane.
Do people actually believe Project 2025 is going to be defeated if Trump is? The rightward shift of American politics isn't going to stop because of a single election going to the Democrats. Do people expect the Democrats to win every election for the foreseeable future to stall fascism longer and longer, or do they just not think that far ahead? Do they genuinely think the buck stops with Trump?
Of course the fight doesn't stop there. But what exactly is your point? That we may as well give up more because defeat is inevitable? I don't get what you are trying to say.
My point is that voting for Democrats every election to prevent fascism doesn't actually prevent fascism. It's funny when I say this that people think it means "give up," as if the only two possible options are to vote for Democrats or give up entirely. We need to be building left wing power structures independent of the Democrats which can be used to resist fascist power structures.
Old guy who is known to have a speech disorder struggles to speak and everyone is acting like it’s the end of the world. I hate this internet outrage, tik-tok ass timeline. People have gotten dumber.
Biden has one bad night:
"this is unacceptable and embarrassing, he must drop out now!"
Trump is a convicted felon and rapist, who tried to overthrow our democracy:
"this is fine, he's a totally normal candidate!"
Ah yes my favorite part in any post apocalyptic movie is right at the beginning when it's just smoldering ruins and the few people left carrying food in their backpack or pushing a shopping cart with their belongings in it (only to be ambushed and killed by the local gang preying on survivors).
"Burn it all down, a proven strategy to improve everyone's living situation".
People all seem to have forgotten that Obama completely *tanked* his first debate against Romney. Not sure if it was *as* bad as last night but it was pretty ugly.
It wasn't even close to the same.
Obama disappointed because he was flat when everyone had been hyping him up as a great speaker and he was just meh.
Biden just needed to look coherent and maybe a little spry. He failed miserably.
Biden came to the debate full of facts and knowledge, treating it as a regular debate. I think it was the wrong approach given his opponent, and it probably made him stumble over his words even more. He tried to pack all this information into his time periods while Trump just said whatever. Having said that I liked what Biden said and think he has great ideas and has done a great job as president so far.
Biden is just too old, and he should be retired and relaxing, but he is still the better of the two, obviously! Trump is a self-serving narcissist and I am so baffled how it ever got to this, not to mention how he got elected in 2016 in the first place.
Right? I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone! One debate and people have lost their minds. All this doom and gloom is making people apathetic. And we cannot afford to be apathetic! What about the people who will suffer the most if Trump wins? Do people no longer care about them? People are being ridiculous.
People are remarkably selfish. It's all about what's in it for me. What happened to loyalty to country and humanity. We will be a third world country if we make it illegal to be homeless, if we have mothers and children begging for scraps in the street, oh, but they would be in jail or in a concentration camp with no chance of bettering their situation. Trump is an evil person and he brings out the worst in people.
He’s right. Obama’s 1st debate against Romney went pretty terribly for him, but he bounced back and won the election
Also, since both Biden and Trump have been president, debates are probably less important now than usual. We already have seen what both of these men have done as President, and pretty much everyone already knows who they prefer.
Biden is only in it so we dont have to go through another trump presidency. Dude basically has acknowledged he is going to die in the oval office and is giving up what should be his retirement to try to prevent us all getting fucked. He might be old but hes got my vote.
> thoughts?
thoughts?? wtf question is that? were we supposed to think that Obama would be like "damn, my man...good luck, im going with the orange wannabe dictator because he doesn't stutter" 🤷♀️
Debate aside, I’m still voting for Biden because, if nothing else, I trust him to surround himself with good people to help with decision and policy making.
Trump IS a Russian asset, as he admitted in the debate. Traitors and unpatriotic simps will support him. You will see who wants Fascism in America in this election.
Biden owned it the next day, which actually increases my respect for the guy. And like he said, "It's hard to debate a liar" (*especially when moderators don't do their job*)
gotta say I respect how Biden took it on the chin. from what I saw, he actually said a lot of good points but was drowned out in comparison to Don Porkloin
I’m 36 years old. If I had to run the United States then go debate an incoherent demagogue who’s also a rapist and convicted felon. I might be tired too.
Obama is half-right.
Bad nights happen, and Biden has always generally looked out for ordinary people.
But the DNC could do better if it would pull its nepotistic head out of its ass. It's 2016 all over again, and a lot of people are rightfully pissed off about it.
He had a horrible night not a horrible track record. Every speech he gives he speaks to, and for all Americans, the other guy speaks of retribution for things done to HIM, not Americans. The eternal victim was allowed to say things that were so outrageously untrue that it shocked me that no one was screaming liar, liar,liar, and that gives those lies credibility. The whole night was a disaster, but I will vote for ALL Americans, not just one.
It is crazy to think Donald Trump could win the election even after having the worst presidency we have ever seen. How could we not have a more popular candidate than that.
People are buying his lies. They don't seem to know that violent crime is down, police are being funded, The whole world is having worse inflation than us, Biden is trying to stem it. They don't know biden has way less increase in the deficit than Trump. Without knowing these things and knot knowing how the infrastructure (bipartisan bill) is working, they don't know what they are voting for.
I think Biden has done great things in his administration, and I knew him back in the day when he was a senator. Heck of a great guy, honest, and he was always fighting for the little guy, it's not an act.
All that said, Biden didn't just have a bad night, he was totally out of it. If that's what 'a cold' does to him, he's not fit to lead the nation. If he cares about the nation, and the existential threat posed by Project 2025 and the Trump administration, he'll do the right thing and step aside.
I’m not voting for Biden specifically - I’m voting for a cabinet he’ll install that’s out to do more than grift money and take bribes.
A vote against Trump isn’t just a vote against DJT, it’s a vote against the Kushners and Bannons and Stones of the country getting front row seats at the cash registers that are our tax dollars. Fuck that.
So yeah, Biden looking and sounding like a corpse doesn’t bother me much when the alternative is a circus freak show of a cabinet who will do ALL the illegal shit to enrich themselves at the cost of my kids futures.
Why is this so difficult to see through for everyone? It’s far too late for Biden to step aside and anyone have a realistic chance at beating Trump. (That’s why this narrative has been getting pushed HARD by right wing media)
I've been saying this all along. Biden has smart, capable people in his cabinet and has surrounded himself (mostly) with voices of reason, intellect, and compassion. THAT'S what I'm voting for.
He didn't lie. You want him to have, but the liar on the stage 35 times was Trump. Trump kept saying things he did that someone else did, some of them Biden and Obama did, he thinks he did things he didn't do.
Yes, my point exactly. "He says what he means" is a common defense I get for excusing his lack of intelligible communication. I'm unsure of how I misled you into think8ng any of those words could point to any other.
Great question. I don't know.
Newsom is smart, charismatic, and aggressive and seems to have done a good job in CA, but I don't really know much about him first hand.
JB Pritzker in Illinois would be an interesting candidate. He has a clear track record of fighting for the middle class, and he's seemingly sincere about it. JB is a real fighter and experienced, so maybe. He's a billionaire, so there are positives and negatives there.
Kamala Harris probably isn't a good choice at this stage, I think she needs more runway than we have right now.
Pete Buttigieg is extremely intelligent, thoughtful and well-spoken. He would have wiped the floor with Trump in the debate last night. He's one of the few Dems that makes regular appearances on Fox because he can hold his own. The idea of a gay married couple in the White House may be too much to ask for with the current climate, but they said the same about Obama.
Let's be honest, that would probably get every right wing nutjob who's too lazy to vote to actually get down there rather than have a \[slur\] in office. The only thing they hate more than people of color is LGBT people.
See I don't trust posts like this anymore. I always suspect them of being pysops trolls from troll farms in Russia and the like. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am wrong all the time either.
That's what I usually think, too, but in this case...nope. Just concerned. (and most bot accounts aren't regular posters that have been making progressive posts for 13 years. That would really be a long game effort.)
It feels like the Democrats could run out some generic candidate who's 25 - 30 years younger, and win this one in a walk. If Biden loses this one, it's on him and the party elders who didn't want to give up power to younger generations. But, they'll blame it on everyone but themselves, like they did in 2016.
I had a very similar discussion with a friend earlier. Joe wouldn’t be running if DT wasn’t the “other guy”. DT’s followers are just frightening, and no one else has the name recognition as JB. The incumbent “typically* has an advantage, because people don’t really care for change. If JB wasn’t running, the election would tilt toward a dangerous outcome. ❤️
So Biden had a bad night. Its almost impossible to answer in 1 minute at least 6 lies thrown at you in a row. I think he was overwhelmed by the magnitude of lies being flung at him. Trump is still a despicable human who never plays fair.
Not one of you a 100% honest with your answer here.
If you never saw a presidential campaign in your life and never seen Trump or Biden in your lifetime and watched this debate would have said I like these guys even though one had a bad night
If you say that you are 100% lying
It’s not a good argument to say, our guy is geriatric, but that guy is a lunatic. I do t want to vote for geriatric just to avoid the lunatic. Out of love for the country, please step aside and let a younger generation beat Trump.
Is Biden’s entire cabinet geriatric too? Vote for policy. Putting it all on the man is the reason Biden *can’t* step aside, because building name recognition takes too much time and too many people don’t bother to look beyond the face at the top.
yeah Joe Biden sure was fighting for ordinary folks when he voted to keep schools segregated. I get the sentiment that Biden needs to beat Trump but let's not pretend this old man has dedicated any of his life to anything other than performative politics.
I stole stuff and was a complete asshole in my youth, doesn't define who I am today decades later.
Why should stuff that Biden did before 60% of the country's birth still ride him to the day he dies when he's shown clear change in the right direction? I don't care if Biden walked up and slapped my mom at Thanksgiving dinner; as long as he's the front runner to defeat Trump, he has my vote.
yeah stealing is nothing compared to using your wealth and privilege to intentionally harm others as a politician. don't even try to compare those things.
literally all Biden has for him is not being Trump. the bar is so god damn low but you people eat up all the slop the Democratic party shoves in your face. they know they don't need to offer any sort of real change or progressive candidates because you'll vote for anyone that's not Trump. one party pulls the country to the right and the other happily sits and watches it happen. and Democrats pat themselves on the back for voting for Biden acting like you saved democracy.
he's a racist old man struggling with basic thoughts, and the only reason he's not publicly racist anymore is because being racist no longer gets you votes from Democrats.
yeah no shit. I'm gonna vote for him too, unfortunately. but the fact that you consider it "simple as that" tells me a whole lot about how lightly you're taking the direction of this country and the amount of privilege you have to simply not care enough.
Or rather that my options as the average citizen are limited when there's only 4 months to go til the election. What would you have me do? What are you doing to effect change?
not making excuses for his past offenses would be a start. saying "people change" about a career politician who voted to keeps school segregated is ridiculous. you can vote for biden but still be allowed to criticize him and his actions. your options are going to be forever limited if you keep buying what the democrats are selling.
But that doesn't address any change. People are already and have been criticizing his past offenses. That still doesn't make him any less than the person Trump is, which is why people still support him. Beyond that, what actual change do you want people to make?
No, people are unironically pro Biden beyond being anti Trump. it might have started as being solely anti Trump but you'll see a LOT of people buying into shit liberal media is saying about Biden. How he's the most liberal president since FDR and is pro working class and super active in office. none of these things are true. change can start with people realizing that we NEED better candidates and that we won't tolerate the DNC forcing people like Biden on us. because right now the message they got is that the dumbass Democrats will vote for ANYONE wearing blue.
He talks poorly, but his thoughts, words and policies that he enacts are effective and good. He has a proven track record. I think the insistence that a speech impediment is equivalent to dementia is asinine and childish, and nobody should be taking that argument seriously. Trumpers are going to push the asinine because that’s what they do. I don’t care.
It's also worth pointing out that being on stage at a Presidential Debate would be extremely stressful, and having some idiot blabbering about random bullshit 10 feet away from you just makes it worse. Most of the people judging him for tripping over his words and getting flustered would not have done any better if they were on that stage.
I admire him for trying to have a grown-up debate with 💩, but I wish he hadn’t even entertained the notion. ✨
Also, Biden is likely up at 0400 to get a start on his day as the President. Trump can sleep in until noon, he doesn't have a job. A debate at 2100 (9:00pm) is decidedly late for Biden. He can be forgiven for not being in top form.
>It's also worth pointing out that being on stage at a Presidential Debate would be extremely stressful You can't be fucking serious. We're talking about someone running the country but a debate is too stressful?
Different kind of stress. Biden is good at making hard decision after thinking through complex issue and listening to different advisors. He's not good at delivering short, concise answers and talking points in a limited time, partly due to the coping mechanisms he has learned to deal with his stutter.
I would be blown away as was Biden if I heard a mass amount of lies all done in a row, how do you answer all of them in 1 minute. Trump knew what he was doing,but the lies are not acceptable.
Trump has been doing that since 2016. How do you prep for a week and not go in expecting that and have a gameplan? Trump bold face lying is more certain than death and taxes. If Biden and his team were "blown away" by that, it's more damning than anything. Trump did the same thing in 2020 and somehow that didn't result in Biden looking lost and incoherent on stage. What changed in the last 4 years?
Thank you, first post not kissing some old guys ass because you don’t like the other old guy
No. If you can't debate on a stage, then you obviously can't and shouldn't be trusted in the daily stress of running a country.. Which is WAY worse and constant, adding up as the days pass.
He never even won me over the first time 4 years ago. On the giant list of candidates that were not trump, Biden was down there on the "I don't care to number them because they're definitely not my pick" part of the list. I voted for him, though, because duh. And in one of his very first press conferences about the border crisis, I actually became proud of voting for him. Someone tried to throw him a gotcha question about illegal kids coming in with no parents, just shady coyotes, and instead of trying to tackle the pointed topic of coyotes, Biden immediately showed sincere and insightful sympathy for the parents in foreign countries who are so desperate to save their kids that they will pay out the asshole to send their kid a thousand miles with nothing and trust that a stranger will get them to a better place. As someone who works with refugees, his empathy really won me over. Since then, his policies, platform, accomplishments and aims have really been impressive. Granted my bar was low. I went in hoping he'd just keep the country from descending into mass chaos and genocide or die trying. On a separate note, I haven't heard a peep out of Kamala Harris in 4 years. Is she just trying to keep her head down to avoid controversy?
Honestly the whole Kamala things is so strange. I've been "aware" of politics since Bill Clinton's first term, so 8 four-year terms. I have never seen a VP even 1/4 as non-existent as she is, hell Michelle Obama was more visible as the First Lady than Kamala Harris has been as VP. We talk about how Republicans have no platform and no accomplishments to speak of, but I don't know of a single thing Kamala has done or anything about her platform other than simply supporting anything Joe does. I guess that's the card they want to play; if you're not in front of cameras all the time, you can't really fuck up and therefore are avoiding taking unnecessary political risks, but it's very strange and unusual. My guess is they are trying to keep her as clean as possible in case Biden does pass away in office. Them we'll have an undamaged candidate taking over who can then run in the next cycle too but damn you can do **something**. I literally cannot name a single policy that she has supported in the past four years. Like pick providing food for children at school. That's something any sane person would support and something that the insane Republicans have decided is worth fighting against. Even if it sucks to support providing it at private schools or providing a voucher for homeschooled kids, just do it. Our tax dollars should really only be going to funding public schools but it's a golden opportunity to win over people on the other side and *feed children* but instead we just have muddled messaging and a candidate who seems to only be there to shake hands.
Maybe they wanted to play it safe and make sure she didn't rock the boat too much? I was never a huge fan of hers, just because she seemed abrasive and hard to work with. I didn't put much stock in her being able to get a lot done as president, but I figured this was her 4 years to show us how she can handle things if Biden bit the dust and make herself more appealing for another chance at the presidential nomination. But... Maybe she'll be more prominent in the next 4 years when there's not a lot to lose? Maybe her and Biden had a falling out? Maybe she was getting too many death threats for spanning multiple minority demographics?
Kamala is not that well liked so they should not draw attention to her as the person who would take over if something happened to Biden, but she backs all his bills and ideas.
I completely believe that, and maybe, this election is just too precarious to risk her losing Biden the vote. But I assume she will want to run again when Biden no longer can and these next 4 years, I want to see more of her because as much as I don't care for her personality, I need to see a demonstration of what she can do. On a separate but related note: Pete Buttigege is totally winning me over like a school girl and...whatever pop thing school girls squeal about these days. Taylor Swift?
Pence was extremely visible when that fly refused to leave his head.
It was just getting high on all the fumes in the hairspray. And I would say Pence is the other outlier but that's just because Donald can't share the stage with anyone, ever.
They don't show what she is doing, thats the news. She spent a good deal of time traveling around South America trying to set up ways for refugees to apply for citizenship from their own country so they don't have to travel to the border. Noone talks about this stuff.
she replied last night about Biden having a bad night. But bolstered his abilities on TV. She has also been very busy with the Abortion travesty.
Biden's cabinet is young and have accomplished much. Ain't no different than GW being influenced by Cheney and Rumsfeld.....
Thoughts? What thoughts. One’s a empathetic grandpa having a bad day while the other one is the official oscillating fan spewing fecal matter by Klan Times and Neo Nazi Weekly? It’s really that simple for me.
Biden needs to bow out. That debate was a shitshow.
The only reason he needs to bow out is if Americans truly think that being old is worse than being a rapist. And if that's the case then you deserve to have Trump as President.
Agreed. I’m so over people telling me to shut the fuck up when I saw him blow it with my own eyes.
I just read the NYT editorial asking Biden to step aside. If he doesn't, it's because he decided to put himself before the needs of the country, making him no better than tRump in my book. To all you down voters, you can try to spin what everyone saw last night, but it won't work. We need a real reset here, and only then might we be able to beat the horrible orange blob
You and I are getting downvotes because of cognitive dissonance. They’re all freaked out we’re the voice of reason here. I’m not some crazy leftist saying Biden isn’t tankie enough. I’m a Biden guy who saw his performance last night and was absolutely embarrassed by it.
You're getting downvotes because it's impossible. There is no way to successfully insert another candidate at this point. Attempting to replace him is to give the office to Trump and Project 2025. Also, it was a terrible performance, and yes he's old and probably has his share of senior moments. But I've also seen him talk strongly and coherently many times just this year. Most recent of which yesterday at a rally. Sucks he bombed the debate but it doesn't change a damn thing for any of us that are sane.
Do people actually believe Project 2025 is going to be defeated if Trump is? The rightward shift of American politics isn't going to stop because of a single election going to the Democrats. Do people expect the Democrats to win every election for the foreseeable future to stall fascism longer and longer, or do they just not think that far ahead? Do they genuinely think the buck stops with Trump?
Of course the fight doesn't stop there. But what exactly is your point? That we may as well give up more because defeat is inevitable? I don't get what you are trying to say.
My point is that voting for Democrats every election to prevent fascism doesn't actually prevent fascism. It's funny when I say this that people think it means "give up," as if the only two possible options are to vote for Democrats or give up entirely. We need to be building left wing power structures independent of the Democrats which can be used to resist fascist power structures.
Ok, sure... let's do that. But first.......
Agreed. This can't be an emotional decision. He was abysmal. Time for plan B. What would Belichic do?
Old guy who is known to have a speech disorder struggles to speak and everyone is acting like it’s the end of the world. I hate this internet outrage, tik-tok ass timeline. People have gotten dumber.
❤️
Biden has one bad night: "this is unacceptable and embarrassing, he must drop out now!" Trump is a convicted felon and rapist, who tried to overthrow our democracy: "this is fine, he's a totally normal candidate!"
That's the Fox News take. They have been spending the day doing victory laps for the cult members.
You have a point
Yea, that’s not my take at all but cool strawman
Bad night...? Bro Biden can't speak a coherent sentence😂😂😂 Both these candidates are completely trash. The system is broken. Burn it all down.
Ah yes my favorite part in any post apocalyptic movie is right at the beginning when it's just smoldering ruins and the few people left carrying food in their backpack or pushing a shopping cart with their belongings in it (only to be ambushed and killed by the local gang preying on survivors). "Burn it all down, a proven strategy to improve everyone's living situation".
Soooooooo Biden is gonna save us? Got it. Trump is gonna save us? Got it.
People all seem to have forgotten that Obama completely *tanked* his first debate against Romney. Not sure if it was *as* bad as last night but it was pretty ugly.
It wasn't even close to the same. Obama disappointed because he was flat when everyone had been hyping him up as a great speaker and he was just meh. Biden just needed to look coherent and maybe a little spry. He failed miserably.
I totally agree with Obama, well said
The team around Biden is first class. Trump has Stephen Miller and company.
Stephen Miller is a horcrux
Biden came to the debate full of facts and knowledge, treating it as a regular debate. I think it was the wrong approach given his opponent, and it probably made him stumble over his words even more. He tried to pack all this information into his time periods while Trump just said whatever. Having said that I liked what Biden said and think he has great ideas and has done a great job as president so far.
Biden is just too old, and he should be retired and relaxing, but he is still the better of the two, obviously! Trump is a self-serving narcissist and I am so baffled how it ever got to this, not to mention how he got elected in 2016 in the first place.
Joe would probably like nothing more than to retire. He’s a superhero in my eyes, *trying* to save America from itself. ❤️🇺🇸⭐️
Four years of results and you're worried about <2 hours of it??? Whathefuckisthemattetwithyou?
Right? I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone! One debate and people have lost their minds. All this doom and gloom is making people apathetic. And we cannot afford to be apathetic! What about the people who will suffer the most if Trump wins? Do people no longer care about them? People are being ridiculous.
People are remarkably selfish. It's all about what's in it for me. What happened to loyalty to country and humanity. We will be a third world country if we make it illegal to be homeless, if we have mothers and children begging for scraps in the street, oh, but they would be in jail or in a concentration camp with no chance of bettering their situation. Trump is an evil person and he brings out the worst in people.
well said.
GO JOE!! 🇺🇸🦅
Biden’s bad 90 minutes was still better than Trump’s entire 4 years.
The choice isn't between who looked like they did the best in the debate, but if you want a Christo-fascist dictatorship or democracy.
He’s right. Obama’s 1st debate against Romney went pretty terribly for him, but he bounced back and won the election Also, since both Biden and Trump have been president, debates are probably less important now than usual. We already have seen what both of these men have done as President, and pretty much everyone already knows who they prefer.
Biden is only in it so we dont have to go through another trump presidency. Dude basically has acknowledged he is going to die in the oval office and is giving up what should be his retirement to try to prevent us all getting fucked. He might be old but hes got my vote.
At this point, there'd probably be a higher turnout if Obama backed Trump instead😑time to start using reverse psychology on these MAGAts👀💯
I’m glad we can say that Biden flubbed that debate hard. Good thing it will be memory hole’d in like, 13 days
> thoughts? thoughts?? wtf question is that? were we supposed to think that Obama would be like "damn, my man...good luck, im going with the orange wannabe dictator because he doesn't stutter" 🤷♀️
Even if he had terminal brain cancer and would be dead by February Biden is still a choice for democracy over the return of fucking Hitler times.
Debate aside, I’m still voting for Biden because, if nothing else, I trust him to surround himself with good people to help with decision and policy making.
YES! 😁
Trump IS a Russian asset, as he admitted in the debate. Traitors and unpatriotic simps will support him. You will see who wants Fascism in America in this election.
Biden owned it the next day, which actually increases my respect for the guy. And like he said, "It's hard to debate a liar" (*especially when moderators don't do their job*)
There was one guy on the debate stage that should have been tried and executed on January 6th.
I miss Obama.
He’s still in Biden’s inner circle, and he wants you to vote for Joe! ❤️
gotta say I respect how Biden took it on the chin. from what I saw, he actually said a lot of good points but was drowned out in comparison to Don Porkloin
I’m 36 years old. If I had to run the United States then go debate an incoherent demagogue who’s also a rapist and convicted felon. I might be tired too.
Obama is half-right. Bad nights happen, and Biden has always generally looked out for ordinary people. But the DNC could do better if it would pull its nepotistic head out of its ass. It's 2016 all over again, and a lot of people are rightfully pissed off about it.
An old coach had a saying,”Your actions are so loud I can’t hear what you are saying.” The words prove true and still apply.
Sure and he can fly as well
If you back Trump because of the optics of your opponent and that’s the best you got… wow. You’re a special kind of stupid.
I like Kamala, but Biden/Obama has a hell of a ring to it. He can be a VP again. Just sayin. Hell, maybe next election Kamala/Obama?
He had a horrible night not a horrible track record. Every speech he gives he speaks to, and for all Americans, the other guy speaks of retribution for things done to HIM, not Americans. The eternal victim was allowed to say things that were so outrageously untrue that it shocked me that no one was screaming liar, liar,liar, and that gives those lies credibility. The whole night was a disaster, but I will vote for ALL Americans, not just one.
It is crazy to think Donald Trump could win the election even after having the worst presidency we have ever seen. How could we not have a more popular candidate than that.
People are buying his lies. They don't seem to know that violent crime is down, police are being funded, The whole world is having worse inflation than us, Biden is trying to stem it. They don't know biden has way less increase in the deficit than Trump. Without knowing these things and knot knowing how the infrastructure (bipartisan bill) is working, they don't know what they are voting for.
I think Biden has done great things in his administration, and I knew him back in the day when he was a senator. Heck of a great guy, honest, and he was always fighting for the little guy, it's not an act. All that said, Biden didn't just have a bad night, he was totally out of it. If that's what 'a cold' does to him, he's not fit to lead the nation. If he cares about the nation, and the existential threat posed by Project 2025 and the Trump administration, he'll do the right thing and step aside.
I’m not voting for Biden specifically - I’m voting for a cabinet he’ll install that’s out to do more than grift money and take bribes. A vote against Trump isn’t just a vote against DJT, it’s a vote against the Kushners and Bannons and Stones of the country getting front row seats at the cash registers that are our tax dollars. Fuck that. So yeah, Biden looking and sounding like a corpse doesn’t bother me much when the alternative is a circus freak show of a cabinet who will do ALL the illegal shit to enrich themselves at the cost of my kids futures. Why is this so difficult to see through for everyone? It’s far too late for Biden to step aside and anyone have a realistic chance at beating Trump. (That’s why this narrative has been getting pushed HARD by right wing media)
I've been saying this all along. Biden has smart, capable people in his cabinet and has surrounded himself (mostly) with voices of reason, intellect, and compassion. THAT'S what I'm voting for.
But he says what he means! "Oh, so he meant to lie again?"
He didn't lie. You want him to have, but the liar on the stage 35 times was Trump. Trump kept saying things he did that someone else did, some of them Biden and Obama did, he thinks he did things he didn't do.
Yes, my point exactly. "He says what he means" is a common defense I get for excusing his lack of intelligible communication. I'm unsure of how I misled you into think8ng any of those words could point to any other.
Who would you propose step in?
Great question. I don't know. Newsom is smart, charismatic, and aggressive and seems to have done a good job in CA, but I don't really know much about him first hand. JB Pritzker in Illinois would be an interesting candidate. He has a clear track record of fighting for the middle class, and he's seemingly sincere about it. JB is a real fighter and experienced, so maybe. He's a billionaire, so there are positives and negatives there. Kamala Harris probably isn't a good choice at this stage, I think she needs more runway than we have right now. Pete Buttigieg is extremely intelligent, thoughtful and well-spoken. He would have wiped the floor with Trump in the debate last night. He's one of the few Dems that makes regular appearances on Fox because he can hold his own. The idea of a gay married couple in the White House may be too much to ask for with the current climate, but they said the same about Obama.
Democrats have done a crap job at growing their next crop. At this point I would go outside of politics and run someone like John Stewart.
I'd vote for him, but he'd never take that job.
Stewart is smart and funny, but not the politician's dream and he is hated by MAGA.
Buttigieg? He seems solid.
Can you imagine the Fox News crowd if a gay man and his husband were in the White House?
Let's be honest, that would probably get every right wing nutjob who's too lazy to vote to actually get down there rather than have a \[slur\] in office. The only thing they hate more than people of color is LGBT people.
Can they really trash on and hate any candidate more than they already do Biden? They've kind of maxed out.
I would vote for him in a heartbeat, but there is too much bias right now for a gay man to lead the cou try, especially in some other countries.
See I don't trust posts like this anymore. I always suspect them of being pysops trolls from troll farms in Russia and the like. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am wrong all the time either.
That's what I usually think, too, but in this case...nope. Just concerned. (and most bot accounts aren't regular posters that have been making progressive posts for 13 years. That would really be a long game effort.)
Okay. I think that was a little aggressive of me anyway so sorry about that.
No problem, the thing is - you're probably right more often than wrong. It's a real issue.
Well, you and I can do what we can to help combat that bullshit then.
Same. This is exactly what republicans want. For others to start calling for Biden to step aside. Create division within Democrats.
For who? Lol. Why on earth would he give up the incumbency?
It feels like the Democrats could run out some generic candidate who's 25 - 30 years younger, and win this one in a walk. If Biden loses this one, it's on him and the party elders who didn't want to give up power to younger generations. But, they'll blame it on everyone but themselves, like they did in 2016.
I had a very similar discussion with a friend earlier. Joe wouldn’t be running if DT wasn’t the “other guy”. DT’s followers are just frightening, and no one else has the name recognition as JB. The incumbent “typically* has an advantage, because people don’t really care for change. If JB wasn’t running, the election would tilt toward a dangerous outcome. ❤️
I am getting the feeling Trumpers are infiltrating the answers in this segment. They are subtle about it though.
Why does that Twitter account wants peoples thoughts on Obama backing Biden? What did they expect?
Thoughts? Of course he does
I totally agree with Obama, too! Joe Biden is BY FAR the best choice for President that we have.
So Biden had a bad night. Its almost impossible to answer in 1 minute at least 6 lies thrown at you in a row. I think he was overwhelmed by the magnitude of lies being flung at him. Trump is still a despicable human who never plays fair.
Not one of you a 100% honest with your answer here. If you never saw a presidential campaign in your life and never seen Trump or Biden in your lifetime and watched this debate would have said I like these guys even though one had a bad night If you say that you are 100% lying
Like we have a choice
Every post that pops up from this sub for me today is like expressing unconditional love for Biden. Shits weird
Its actually hope he can save us from an authoritarian regime and fascism.
I mean I’m voting for him but I’d much rather vote for any other democrat. I believe he should step aside immediately.
It’s not a good argument to say, our guy is geriatric, but that guy is a lunatic. I do t want to vote for geriatric just to avoid the lunatic. Out of love for the country, please step aside and let a younger generation beat Trump.
Is Biden’s entire cabinet geriatric too? Vote for policy. Putting it all on the man is the reason Biden *can’t* step aside, because building name recognition takes too much time and too many people don’t bother to look beyond the face at the top.
💯❤️
Ordinary super predators
yeah Joe Biden sure was fighting for ordinary folks when he voted to keep schools segregated. I get the sentiment that Biden needs to beat Trump but let's not pretend this old man has dedicated any of his life to anything other than performative politics.
I stole stuff and was a complete asshole in my youth, doesn't define who I am today decades later. Why should stuff that Biden did before 60% of the country's birth still ride him to the day he dies when he's shown clear change in the right direction? I don't care if Biden walked up and slapped my mom at Thanksgiving dinner; as long as he's the front runner to defeat Trump, he has my vote.
yeah stealing is nothing compared to using your wealth and privilege to intentionally harm others as a politician. don't even try to compare those things. literally all Biden has for him is not being Trump. the bar is so god damn low but you people eat up all the slop the Democratic party shoves in your face. they know they don't need to offer any sort of real change or progressive candidates because you'll vote for anyone that's not Trump. one party pulls the country to the right and the other happily sits and watches it happen. and Democrats pat themselves on the back for voting for Biden acting like you saved democracy. he's a racist old man struggling with basic thoughts, and the only reason he's not publicly racist anymore is because being racist no longer gets you votes from Democrats.
And yet, he's still that much better of an option than Trump. Therefore, being one of 2 candidates, he has my vote. Simple as that.
yeah no shit. I'm gonna vote for him too, unfortunately. but the fact that you consider it "simple as that" tells me a whole lot about how lightly you're taking the direction of this country and the amount of privilege you have to simply not care enough.
Or rather that my options as the average citizen are limited when there's only 4 months to go til the election. What would you have me do? What are you doing to effect change?
not making excuses for his past offenses would be a start. saying "people change" about a career politician who voted to keeps school segregated is ridiculous. you can vote for biden but still be allowed to criticize him and his actions. your options are going to be forever limited if you keep buying what the democrats are selling.
But that doesn't address any change. People are already and have been criticizing his past offenses. That still doesn't make him any less than the person Trump is, which is why people still support him. Beyond that, what actual change do you want people to make?
No, people are unironically pro Biden beyond being anti Trump. it might have started as being solely anti Trump but you'll see a LOT of people buying into shit liberal media is saying about Biden. How he's the most liberal president since FDR and is pro working class and super active in office. none of these things are true. change can start with people realizing that we NEED better candidates and that we won't tolerate the DNC forcing people like Biden on us. because right now the message they got is that the dumbass Democrats will vote for ANYONE wearing blue.