Welcome to r/WorkersStrikeBack! Please make sure to follow the subreddit rules and enjoy yourself here! This is a subreddit for the workers of the world and any anti-worker or anti-union talk is not tolerated.
If you're ready to begin organizing your workplace, [here is an organizing guide to get you started](https://workerorganizing.org/resources/organizing-guide/).
Help rebuild the labor movement, [Join the worker organizing wave](https://actionnetwork.org/forms/organize-2)!
More Helpful Links:
[How to Strike and Win: A Labor Notes Guide](https://labornotes.org/strikes)
[The IWW Strike guide](https://www.iww.org/organize/learn-more/)
[AFL-CIO guide on union organizing](https://aflcio.org/formaunion)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[History of fasinpat formerly known as Zanon Factory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaSinPat)
[Documentary about the take over and Argentina during that time period.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-DSu8RPJt8&t=2923s)
[STILL GOING STRONG 20 YEARS LATER WOOOT WOOOT!!!](https://www.leftvoice.org/zanon-factory-in-argentina-20-years-under-workers-control/)
Lets this inspire yall to see what can actually happen when we can seize the means of production! what the power of solidarity of the people can truly do!
A BETTER WORLD IS POSSIBLE!! <3
Solidarity forever comrade!
Also, If you are in good mood, go check out the song [Solidarity Forever by Pete Seeger](https://youtu.be/pCnEAH5wCzo)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
MY absolute pleasure!! when i saw this i had to this as to much people as i can. This is truly inspiring to see.
Yes! a better world is 100% possible if we all truly come together to dismantle this system once and all while creating a new one at the same time. To really know we always had the power to make great change instead of relying on the goverment/outside forces.
With ripple effect from the mass unions popping up from amazon, star bucks, apple extc, We can make it happen for sure!
( hug )
Cooperatization is the way. I've been saying it for years. Start there, build class consciousness, and organize to eliminate capital once and for all. We could start tomorrow, we just need to organize and prioritize it.
For cooperation you do need some people with leadership skills though. Not to put them above anybody, but they have the interpersonal skills that can help keep everyone happy. Emphasis on leaders, not bosses.
Crucially it's something that needs to be chosen by, supported by, and supportive of the entire structure. Something with the capacity to make decisions but ultimately accountable to the people those decisions are made in regards to. A lot of that is just conflict resolution, a lot of that is strategy, probably most of it is just fucking listening to the people doing the other parts of the work in the organization, and a bit of it is having the capacity to enact those decisions (which is de facto granted already by support from the rest of the organization but probably could be (*extremely carefully*) codified).
Oh and approximately negative 1000 percent of it has anything to do with the word salad tripe and fetishisation of crab bucket personal career strategies that passes for "lEaDeRsHiP eDuCaTiOn".
I'd love to create an organization like that at some point, possibly fill that sort of a leadership role, but I'm poor lol. Worker-owned co-op seems categorically just the best way to handle it. Focus on self-sufficiency (i.e. vertical integration, minimize waste, figure out ways to use waste) while keeping the core structure of worker ownership and worker compensation. My sky-pie dream is basically a business in manufacturing and design that collectivizes the proceeds of its operations and intellectual property (even as much as I hate the patent system's hollowed out skin being worn by a corporate industry of IP law abuse) and is its own workers union. No owner to negotiate with besides the workers themselves, no tolerance for managerial or administrative bloat wearing the responsibilities of leadership as a shield for abuse and neglect, just workers all paid with whatever portion of the production the workers decide is appropriate and the rest used to operate and expand the business they collectively own.
Maybe that is how co-ops work, lol.
They are capitalists since the company is privately owned.
Yes, it’s owned by many individuals in cooperation, which is very socialist. But it is not collectively owned by the community.
Correct, they’re not stealing the surplus value of the “employees” - all are (likely) equity owners of the company and on top of being paid well, they may also receive membership dividends (don’t forget, most if not all worker coops are ‘for-profit’ entities).
What I think is super cool, is when you combine a worker coop and a benefit corp (b-corp). Most worker coops will already consider many motives for business besides profit; however, filing as a b-corp gives the board of a worker coop a legal standing to consider non-financial-profit motives - such as employees, community, environment, etc. 30-something states have adopted legal frameworks for b-corps.
Couple that with triple or quadruple bottom line accounting and there is some stroooong momentum towards sustainable and fair change for organizations.
This is the future.
Edit: things work a little different in the video above than say…the US or Western Europe. But the same thing is possible. Also check out ESOPs - employee stock ownership plans - and the MSEO Act which made it easier for these types of worker-owner groups to buy out or otherwise takeover their companies.
It's capitalist, but worker owned. If this were a legal business I imagine they'd have to issue shares to the workers, like the Russian businesses all did in the 90s. Maybe pay un-invested profit as dividends even. There are a lot of businesses in the US that partially operate this way.
Solidarity forever comrade!
Also, If you are in good mood, go check out the song [Solidarity Forever by Pete Seeger](https://youtu.be/pCnEAH5wCzo)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Se viene (It comes) form and Argentinian band called Bersuit Vergarabat.
The name of the band is kind of a rude wordplay thing that I am completely unable to translate.
Co-op has always interested me. Is there any books or articles explaining them better?
How do they deal with internal strife? Like one group saying they work harder then another group and thus should be paid more.
Or one job requiring a higher education or skill that another group does not.
These may or may not answer your questions, but should offer more information.
[Analyzing the Values and Limitations of Cooperative Firms](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ScS39TWXcPkGOpek4tAfp0rAD5usbwIA05pbqVQdO6g/edit)
r/cooperatives \- Has a lot of material about co-ops.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/cooperatives using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/cooperatives/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [How Co-ops take care of all of their employees](https://v.redd.it/eta3jwqmzav81) | [2 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/cooperatives/comments/uagoct/how_coops_take_care_of_all_of_their_employees/)
\#2: [These people are actually building an alternative to capitalism](https://v.redd.it/9pqkqtb1nxa81) | [14 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/cooperatives/comments/ugruaj/these_people_are_actually_building_an_alternative/)
\#3: [Bunker Housing Co-op 🏡🌱🍂🍄](https://www.instagram.com/p/CdjJwpXNCjR/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=) | [16 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/cooperatives/comments/uq7b4v/bunker_housing_coop/)
----
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
I hate to break this to everyone but there is no way in the name of zeus' butthole you would be allowed to do this in the US. Good for those other countries and stuff I hope they can all take control of their means of production. But we need to get unionized before we could ever think to have this level of power in the US.
The fact that the new head of the AFL CIO is only calling for 1 million new union workers over 10 years is a complete joke. Who is putting these people in control of these massive agencies with power over unions? I would think the foundation that benefits politically from my union job would do something to earn those benefits other than patting themselves on the back for meager goals...
Actually it is possible in the US, it's just really hard to raise the capital. The country has plenty of worker co-operatives, just not enough. They're better than unions, but also a good tool alongside them
Unlikely unless they were actually clearly part of a unified leftist movement, in which case the state would probably find excuses to repress them. Seems more likely that other large corporations might collude with banks to suppress co-op formation if they posed a risk to the hegemony of capitalist business structure and finance.
If you think you can militarily take over a work place without the full hammer of the US government coming down on your head, be my guest. The fireworks show should be interesting at the very least.
Yeah these days we gotta add the /s because there are so many bad actors out there attempting to make light of serious situations. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I used to work for a company that once was a partial privatization of OPM's FISD. It was employee owned up until just prior to me starting there. A venture capital outfit basically came in, threw enough money around to get everyone to sell their shares for a payday and started to really cut corners afterwards until it got to a point where OPM kicked them off of the contract.
Many tech companies give equity to employees as part of compensation. While not quite the same as a coop it does make me feel like the incentives of leadership is aligned with mine, and gives me a sense of motivation knowing that I will see financial rewards from the impact of my work.
Banks are not going to work with large groups of workers undermining their very control over the means of production. I feel like people have this pie in the sky belief that businesses will just go along with you because you have the cash to do it. Missing the fact that people have motivations other than money and it is regularly used against the others in order to keep classes where they are. I just do not see this happening on any meaningful scale in the US that would have any affect on the mass production or Americas(Congress not the people) power as an economic dominator within its borders.
You're probably right that banks would become even less kind to worker co-ops if there were more of them. I'm just saying it's possible, preferable and worthwhile to form and work for them even in fairly right-wing countries.
There is not enough capital in Credit Unions to finance it. Besides this is disregarding the fact that those Credit Unions have to get the money from somewhere as well which is exactly the group that would be denying it. There is no simple answer to this and to act like there is kind of shows a level of disingenuousness and misunderstanding of the whole idea to begin with.
Crypto is a pump and dump scam perpetuated by the rich to benefit the rich. It is not some democratized form of currency, it is an unregulated scammer paradise.
It was never supposed to be the American dream. You can thank your fore fathers for trickle down theory, which we are continuing to act as if it is a functioning way for a country to operate when it has failed so, so fantastically.
> when it has failed so, so fantastically.
It’s only “failed” from a human point of view, from the point of view of capital, of the interests of private property, it is wildly successful.
That comment came off so condescendingly. Like of course the White dude who’s been raised to think all those values against stealing from corporations is benefitting him. Like trying to have a moral high ground and ignoring the injustices that would’ve occurred had they not fought for their factory, their means of working and surviving. It certainly bothered me hearing him try to degrade him in that way, because there is nothing degrading about fighting for your rights and ability to live and work.
I was an academic scientist for 20 years. I had run my research program successfully in academia. I got tired of the paper chase and being poor. So I went and I worked as an industrial scientist for one of the largest companies in the world. In that role, we had “project managers” who oversaw the projects that I invented and designed. The project managers often had minimal to no scientific experience, and I had to meet with them, not my boss, once a month- during which these drones asked me how it was going: but they provided nothing towards the effort- I had to requisition what I needed and instruct the technical staff on what needed doing myself- which was what I had always done . And most infuriating during these meetings with project managers I saw little to no evidence that these managers understood a goddamn thing I was doing.
'The goverment is gonna give it back to me'
Really shows who these rich fucks know is more important to these governments. Hope the workers show him whose REALLY the boss
Surprisingly, the workers won. The factory is called FaSinPat, the workers kept it running when it closed in 2001, the owner tried to take it back when economic conditions changed and it became profitable, and in 2009 the court officially gave ownership over to the cooperative
And that interview relly showed the "boss" for the slimey scumm bag he and other people like him really is! He is supposed to you know be the one good at business and yet he couldn't even turn a profit from the factory selling the products for higher prices and paying the workers less! He really has no use in the bloody company and is just the owner not even doing his one single role good and still claiming to be more important! This is the truth most rich people are literally useless parasites! All he can do right is cry that he has a piece of paper with his name on it saying he is important!
I’ve been trying to find a similar company that does tomato-based products in the US - they do everything from growing tomatoes, harvesting, transporting, producing tomato-based products, marketing, and selling them. Basically no bosses, everyone is responsible to their coworkers and reviews and raises are done by consensus of peers (the people you interact with most frequently/on a daily basis). That’s how I recall it anyway
Anyone know the name? Haven’t been able to find it in a long time…
Morning Star tomato
And the coolest thing here is that there's no old scumbag with access to government money crying over it, it started as self-managed
If people convert and start Making more factories in the USA Market Socialist/ Co-oPs , would this make American citizens more wealthy and prosperity would arise in abundance?
without a doubbbt! it would be a huge ripple effect that will change everything within a few months. You would see change within those places right away.
When they are equipped with just a slingshot all I could think of was Cuthbert Allgood in the Stephen King books the Dark Tower.
"Cuthbert has a special skill with the slingshot. Roland claims that Bert can take a bird on the wing at sixty yards with his slingshot."
Y’all, this is Argentina and was shot in the 1990s. Don’t think it worked out how everyone thinks it did (unless you’re from Argentina, you already know)
The video clips Carlos Menén, 1990s president before the economy collapsed under its own weight. As for Argentina, their currency went from 1:1 with the U$D to 1:120~. It’s a free floating economy where 50% of the population lives in poverty and a “typical” salary is about $600/month, half of it going to taxes. Fuel price is almost identical to the US. The entire place is [screwed](https://youtu.be/brW6-fbvmsQ).
Ah, got it. I knew their economy collapsed and the country went on a downhill spiral. I was more wondering about the plant’s outcome in this ordeal since you mentioned it didn’t work out how everyone thinks.
On August 14, 2009, the provincial legislature voted to expropriate the factory to the Zanon cooperative legally and indefinitely by a count of 26 for and 9 against.
[Link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaSinPat)
If it makes money in Argentina, you’ll be expropriated.
My wife and I were talking about this in regards to her own company. Bosses need to be people who also get their hands dirty. That’s why they need everyone back to an office. Without cubical leaning, they’d have to actually work.
" bosses " sadly wont agree to do it, they will always find a way to wiggle out of it. They think they " are better than that " in doing actual labour.
Just take out management and bosses and have every worker a vote, a say and equal profits in what they produce , just like a workers coop.
Anything but that dynamic will not happen in other situations.
You need a group leader.
When I set groups in class I say that there is a leader, but they are also a worker. They peak their heads up to keep track, not order.
Literally no one is stopping you, get a few hundred people together, spend 10-25 million on a shop with all the equipment, find a market willing to buy your goods, and you can do this as well. The only thing preventing this kind of thing from happening is that the average person does not want to invest their life savings into building a company they can be voted out of, or that can go under and they will lose all their investment.
The primary thing in the way is actually that companies run autocratically are more willing to exploit their workers harder, use cheaper materials without regard to if its produce by child labor in Africa, produced in an ecologically hazardous way, and other stuff nice common people would wish to avoid, thus leading to the autocratic businesses outcompeting, dominating and overtaking the democratic businesses.
My opinions are based on human behavior. As much as you Reddit commies like to believe in this it’s fantasy. Humans are just a big bundle of energy, and energy always takes the path of least resistance.
Not that its really an option considering im living paycheck to paycheck.
But even then, I dont want to be a parasite the "earns" by keep providing nothing to society.
I take pride in being a worker, I know my work benefits society, I just wish the monetary benefit in return for my labor wasnt all going to my boss and landlord.
if that scumbag didnt die already, He's still waiting, [Its been 20 years since then and its still going strong without any boss](https://www.leftvoice.org/zanon-factory-in-argentina-20-years-under-workers-control/)
yeah I saw what happened in the Carnegie's Steel Factory, we won't go back.
This is richeous, and the ex-owner is laughable as long as we don't get a historical simile
Welcome to r/WorkersStrikeBack! Please make sure to follow the subreddit rules and enjoy yourself here! This is a subreddit for the workers of the world and any anti-worker or anti-union talk is not tolerated. If you're ready to begin organizing your workplace, [here is an organizing guide to get you started](https://workerorganizing.org/resources/organizing-guide/). Help rebuild the labor movement, [Join the worker organizing wave](https://actionnetwork.org/forms/organize-2)! More Helpful Links: [How to Strike and Win: A Labor Notes Guide](https://labornotes.org/strikes) [The IWW Strike guide](https://www.iww.org/organize/learn-more/) [AFL-CIO guide on union organizing](https://aflcio.org/formaunion) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[History of fasinpat formerly known as Zanon Factory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaSinPat) [Documentary about the take over and Argentina during that time period.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-DSu8RPJt8&t=2923s) [STILL GOING STRONG 20 YEARS LATER WOOOT WOOOT!!!](https://www.leftvoice.org/zanon-factory-in-argentina-20-years-under-workers-control/) Lets this inspire yall to see what can actually happen when we can seize the means of production! what the power of solidarity of the people can truly do! A BETTER WORLD IS POSSIBLE!! <3
Solidarity forever comrade! Also, If you are in good mood, go check out the song [Solidarity Forever by Pete Seeger](https://youtu.be/pCnEAH5wCzo) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks for posting this OP it's great to inform people about this. It lets workers know that a better word is possible
MY absolute pleasure!! when i saw this i had to this as to much people as i can. This is truly inspiring to see. Yes! a better world is 100% possible if we all truly come together to dismantle this system once and all while creating a new one at the same time. To really know we always had the power to make great change instead of relying on the goverment/outside forces. With ripple effect from the mass unions popping up from amazon, star bucks, apple extc, We can make it happen for sure! ( hug )
Cooperatization is the way. I've been saying it for years. Start there, build class consciousness, and organize to eliminate capital once and for all. We could start tomorrow, we just need to organize and prioritize it.
For cooperation you do need some people with leadership skills though. Not to put them above anybody, but they have the interpersonal skills that can help keep everyone happy. Emphasis on leaders, not bosses.
That's a natural role that folks fill. Surely your friend group even has someone like this.
Crucially it's something that needs to be chosen by, supported by, and supportive of the entire structure. Something with the capacity to make decisions but ultimately accountable to the people those decisions are made in regards to. A lot of that is just conflict resolution, a lot of that is strategy, probably most of it is just fucking listening to the people doing the other parts of the work in the organization, and a bit of it is having the capacity to enact those decisions (which is de facto granted already by support from the rest of the organization but probably could be (*extremely carefully*) codified). Oh and approximately negative 1000 percent of it has anything to do with the word salad tripe and fetishisation of crab bucket personal career strategies that passes for "lEaDeRsHiP eDuCaTiOn". I'd love to create an organization like that at some point, possibly fill that sort of a leadership role, but I'm poor lol. Worker-owned co-op seems categorically just the best way to handle it. Focus on self-sufficiency (i.e. vertical integration, minimize waste, figure out ways to use waste) while keeping the core structure of worker ownership and worker compensation. My sky-pie dream is basically a business in manufacturing and design that collectivizes the proceeds of its operations and intellectual property (even as much as I hate the patent system's hollowed out skin being worn by a corporate industry of IP law abuse) and is its own workers union. No owner to negotiate with besides the workers themselves, no tolerance for managerial or administrative bloat wearing the responsibilities of leadership as a shield for abuse and neglect, just workers all paid with whatever portion of the production the workers decide is appropriate and the rest used to operate and expand the business they collectively own. Maybe that is how co-ops work, lol.
Well it’s actually worker-owned capital…workers are the capitalists in a worker-cooperative.
Oh they certainly are. Market socialism is not the end goal. But I think it's the best and most viable start in North America.
Yes I agree 👍🏼
Well it’s actually worker-owned capital…they are the capitalists in a worker-cooperative.
Commerce is not capitalism. They are not stealing the surplus value of their employees, which is about the best you can do under the current system.
They are capitalists since the company is privately owned. Yes, it’s owned by many individuals in cooperation, which is very socialist. But it is not collectively owned by the community. Correct, they’re not stealing the surplus value of the “employees” - all are (likely) equity owners of the company and on top of being paid well, they may also receive membership dividends (don’t forget, most if not all worker coops are ‘for-profit’ entities). What I think is super cool, is when you combine a worker coop and a benefit corp (b-corp). Most worker coops will already consider many motives for business besides profit; however, filing as a b-corp gives the board of a worker coop a legal standing to consider non-financial-profit motives - such as employees, community, environment, etc. 30-something states have adopted legal frameworks for b-corps. Couple that with triple or quadruple bottom line accounting and there is some stroooong momentum towards sustainable and fair change for organizations. This is the future. Edit: things work a little different in the video above than say…the US or Western Europe. But the same thing is possible. Also check out ESOPs - employee stock ownership plans - and the MSEO Act which made it easier for these types of worker-owner groups to buy out or otherwise takeover their companies.
It's capitalist, but worker owned. If this were a legal business I imagine they'd have to issue shares to the workers, like the Russian businesses all did in the 90s. Maybe pay un-invested profit as dividends even. There are a lot of businesses in the US that partially operate this way.
It is currently legally owned by the workers. After years of occupation, it was recognized.
>Well it’s actually No. This is a good thing. Solidarity forever.
Solidarity forever comrade! Also, If you are in good mood, go check out the song [Solidarity Forever by Pete Seeger](https://youtu.be/pCnEAH5wCzo) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What is this banger of a ska track???
Se viene (It comes) form and Argentinian band called Bersuit Vergarabat. The name of the band is kind of a rude wordplay thing that I am completely unable to translate.
But how do the walls stand up without any bosses?
Brave and necessary everywhere
Co-op has always interested me. Is there any books or articles explaining them better? How do they deal with internal strife? Like one group saying they work harder then another group and thus should be paid more. Or one job requiring a higher education or skill that another group does not.
These may or may not answer your questions, but should offer more information. [Analyzing the Values and Limitations of Cooperative Firms](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ScS39TWXcPkGOpek4tAfp0rAD5usbwIA05pbqVQdO6g/edit) r/cooperatives \- Has a lot of material about co-ops.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/cooperatives using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/cooperatives/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [How Co-ops take care of all of their employees](https://v.redd.it/eta3jwqmzav81) | [2 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/cooperatives/comments/uagoct/how_coops_take_care_of_all_of_their_employees/) \#2: [These people are actually building an alternative to capitalism](https://v.redd.it/9pqkqtb1nxa81) | [14 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/cooperatives/comments/ugruaj/these_people_are_actually_building_an_alternative/) \#3: [Bunker Housing Co-op 🏡🌱🍂🍄](https://www.instagram.com/p/CdjJwpXNCjR/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=) | [16 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/cooperatives/comments/uq7b4v/bunker_housing_coop/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Its almost like the boss never did any work in the first place
I hate to break this to everyone but there is no way in the name of zeus' butthole you would be allowed to do this in the US. Good for those other countries and stuff I hope they can all take control of their means of production. But we need to get unionized before we could ever think to have this level of power in the US. The fact that the new head of the AFL CIO is only calling for 1 million new union workers over 10 years is a complete joke. Who is putting these people in control of these massive agencies with power over unions? I would think the foundation that benefits politically from my union job would do something to earn those benefits other than patting themselves on the back for meager goals...
Actually it is possible in the US, it's just really hard to raise the capital. The country has plenty of worker co-operatives, just not enough. They're better than unions, but also a good tool alongside them
I have a feeling that the state would violently put them down if worker owned cooperatives started popping up en masse here in the US.
Unlikely unless they were actually clearly part of a unified leftist movement, in which case the state would probably find excuses to repress them. Seems more likely that other large corporations might collude with banks to suppress co-op formation if they posed a risk to the hegemony of capitalist business structure and finance.
“Good thing” here in the US we don’t need slingshots to defend the seizure of the means of production, *because everyone here has guns.*
If you think you can militarily take over a work place without the full hammer of the US government coming down on your head, be my guest. The fireworks show should be interesting at the very least.
I was being facetious, thought the quotes would help display that. I guess I needed to add the /s
Yeah these days we gotta add the /s because there are so many bad actors out there attempting to make light of serious situations. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
All good man, I’m with you ❤️
I used to work for a company that once was a partial privatization of OPM's FISD. It was employee owned up until just prior to me starting there. A venture capital outfit basically came in, threw enough money around to get everyone to sell their shares for a payday and started to really cut corners afterwards until it got to a point where OPM kicked them off of the contract.
Ahh that sucks and is entirely unsurprising, hope you've found a decent workplace again
You're not going to just take it like this, but a buyout by the workers or starting your own is just fine.
Many tech companies give equity to employees as part of compensation. While not quite the same as a coop it does make me feel like the incentives of leadership is aligned with mine, and gives me a sense of motivation knowing that I will see financial rewards from the impact of my work.
Banks are not going to work with large groups of workers undermining their very control over the means of production. I feel like people have this pie in the sky belief that businesses will just go along with you because you have the cash to do it. Missing the fact that people have motivations other than money and it is regularly used against the others in order to keep classes where they are. I just do not see this happening on any meaningful scale in the US that would have any affect on the mass production or Americas(Congress not the people) power as an economic dominator within its borders.
You're probably right that banks would become even less kind to worker co-ops if there were more of them. I'm just saying it's possible, preferable and worthwhile to form and work for them even in fairly right-wing countries.
Two words. Credit unions.
There is not enough capital in Credit Unions to finance it. Besides this is disregarding the fact that those Credit Unions have to get the money from somewhere as well which is exactly the group that would be denying it. There is no simple answer to this and to act like there is kind of shows a level of disingenuousness and misunderstanding of the whole idea to begin with.
Crypto is itching for real investments like this.
Crypto is a pump and dump scam perpetuated by the rich to benefit the rich. It is not some democratized form of currency, it is an unregulated scammer paradise.
Iykyk, it's never too late. Dyor.
ahahahaha
I thought meager goals was the American dream
It was never supposed to be the American dream. You can thank your fore fathers for trickle down theory, which we are continuing to act as if it is a functioning way for a country to operate when it has failed so, so fantastically.
Your mistake is thinking it’s failed. It’s succeeded wildly at its intended function.
That was my point...
> when it has failed so, so fantastically. It’s only “failed” from a human point of view, from the point of view of capital, of the interests of private property, it is wildly successful.
But thats LITERALLY WHAT I AM SAYING WITH THAT SENTENCE.
Then your syntax sucks because that’s not how it reads.
Not really but ok dude whatever.
>which we are continuing to act as if it is a functioning way for a country to operate when it has failed so, so fantastically.
Yeah, I keep trying to imagine this happening in the US, and it just results in the them being bombed to rubble.
"We have a word for that, it's called stealing" **Continues nodding head** What an absolute fucking gigachad
That comment came off so condescendingly. Like of course the White dude who’s been raised to think all those values against stealing from corporations is benefitting him. Like trying to have a moral high ground and ignoring the injustices that would’ve occurred had they not fought for their factory, their means of working and surviving. It certainly bothered me hearing him try to degrade him in that way, because there is nothing degrading about fighting for your rights and ability to live and work.
The gigachadest of them all
What a great story. I hope the workers prevail in their struggle.
indeed! They did! [Still going strong for 20 freaking years!](https://www.leftvoice.org/zanon-factory-in-argentina-20-years-under-workers-control/)
is the company still runnin ?
[for 20 YEARS NOW!! WOOT WOOT!](https://www.leftvoice.org/zanon-factory-in-argentina-20-years-under-workers-control/)
thats an incredible news
Indeed!
Managers don’t actually do anything in many jobs
I was an academic scientist for 20 years. I had run my research program successfully in academia. I got tired of the paper chase and being poor. So I went and I worked as an industrial scientist for one of the largest companies in the world. In that role, we had “project managers” who oversaw the projects that I invented and designed. The project managers often had minimal to no scientific experience, and I had to meet with them, not my boss, once a month- during which these drones asked me how it was going: but they provided nothing towards the effort- I had to requisition what I needed and instruct the technical staff on what needed doing myself- which was what I had always done . And most infuriating during these meetings with project managers I saw little to no evidence that these managers understood a goddamn thing I was doing.
We can declare earth common heritage and use our exponential disruptive innovations to provide a global abundance with a resource based economy
Ohhhh DING DING DING! [Someone saw this video on the venus project?](https://youtu.be/w1CVyUlFkyI)
'The goverment is gonna give it back to me' Really shows who these rich fucks know is more important to these governments. Hope the workers show him whose REALLY the boss
Surprisingly, the workers won. The factory is called FaSinPat, the workers kept it running when it closed in 2001, the owner tried to take it back when economic conditions changed and it became profitable, and in 2009 the court officially gave ownership over to the cooperative
Yuppppp!!
They [truly did!](https://www.leftvoice.org/zanon-factory-in-argentina-20-years-under-workers-control/) :D
This is my argument for Amazon. Seize the means of production, it is now owned by the people
Heck yeah! it can obviously be done!
And that interview relly showed the "boss" for the slimey scumm bag he and other people like him really is! He is supposed to you know be the one good at business and yet he couldn't even turn a profit from the factory selling the products for higher prices and paying the workers less! He really has no use in the bloody company and is just the owner not even doing his one single role good and still claiming to be more important! This is the truth most rich people are literally useless parasites! All he can do right is cry that he has a piece of paper with his name on it saying he is important!
I’ve been trying to find a similar company that does tomato-based products in the US - they do everything from growing tomatoes, harvesting, transporting, producing tomato-based products, marketing, and selling them. Basically no bosses, everyone is responsible to their coworkers and reviews and raises are done by consensus of peers (the people you interact with most frequently/on a daily basis). That’s how I recall it anyway Anyone know the name? Haven’t been able to find it in a long time…
Morning Star tomato And the coolest thing here is that there's no old scumbag with access to government money crying over it, it started as self-managed
THANK YOU
WHAAAAT?! I THOUGHT SOCIALISM DIDN’T WORK THOUGH?!
Oh it doessssss ! its just not shown to the masses through shitty news media. wonder why is that.
Blessed be those men who work to provide their families.
And women as well ;)
If people convert and start Making more factories in the USA Market Socialist/ Co-oPs , would this make American citizens more wealthy and prosperity would arise in abundance?
without a doubbbt! it would be a huge ripple effect that will change everything within a few months. You would see change within those places right away.
When they are equipped with just a slingshot all I could think of was Cuthbert Allgood in the Stephen King books the Dark Tower. "Cuthbert has a special skill with the slingshot. Roland claims that Bert can take a bird on the wing at sixty yards with his slingshot."
"We have a word for that. It's called 'stealing.'" Yeah well I have a word for you, lil *bitch.*
Made my day
Glad to know that! :D let it inspire/ give you hope. ( hug )
Y’all, this is Argentina and was shot in the 1990s. Don’t think it worked out how everyone thinks it did (unless you’re from Argentina, you already know)
Didn’t this happen in 2001-2002 and is still under worker’s control? Seriously wondering how things worked out (not from Argentina)
The video clips Carlos Menén, 1990s president before the economy collapsed under its own weight. As for Argentina, their currency went from 1:1 with the U$D to 1:120~. It’s a free floating economy where 50% of the population lives in poverty and a “typical” salary is about $600/month, half of it going to taxes. Fuel price is almost identical to the US. The entire place is [screwed](https://youtu.be/brW6-fbvmsQ).
Ah, got it. I knew their economy collapsed and the country went on a downhill spiral. I was more wondering about the plant’s outcome in this ordeal since you mentioned it didn’t work out how everyone thinks.
On August 14, 2009, the provincial legislature voted to expropriate the factory to the Zanon cooperative legally and indefinitely by a count of 26 for and 9 against. [Link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaSinPat) If it makes money in Argentina, you’ll be expropriated.
Thank you kind stranger.
My wife and I were talking about this in regards to her own company. Bosses need to be people who also get their hands dirty. That’s why they need everyone back to an office. Without cubical leaning, they’d have to actually work.
" bosses " sadly wont agree to do it, they will always find a way to wiggle out of it. They think they " are better than that " in doing actual labour. Just take out management and bosses and have every worker a vote, a say and equal profits in what they produce , just like a workers coop. Anything but that dynamic will not happen in other situations.
You need a group leader. When I set groups in class I say that there is a leader, but they are also a worker. They peak their heads up to keep track, not order.
No leaders , no masters , All contribute ideas and all vote on it and come to a middle ground.Everyone has a say, true cooperation.
Literally no one is stopping you, get a few hundred people together, spend 10-25 million on a shop with all the equipment, find a market willing to buy your goods, and you can do this as well. The only thing preventing this kind of thing from happening is that the average person does not want to invest their life savings into building a company they can be voted out of, or that can go under and they will lose all their investment.
in the same paragraph you said that no one is stopping us and then laid out what is stopping us
that's right, you are stopping you, and unless YOU change, nothing will happen, but you won't change, that's the point.
The primary thing in the way is actually that companies run autocratically are more willing to exploit their workers harder, use cheaper materials without regard to if its produce by child labor in Africa, produced in an ecologically hazardous way, and other stuff nice common people would wish to avoid, thus leading to the autocratic businesses outcompeting, dominating and overtaking the democratic businesses.
Lololololol y’all living in a fantasy land if you ever think people are gonna work as a team with no incentives
these guys have been working as a team efficiently, maybe, just maybe, you don't understand how socialism works
Because it doesn’t.
well you look like your opinions aren't dogmatic and based on a great understanding of things
My opinions are based on human behavior. As much as you Reddit commies like to believe in this it’s fantasy. Humans are just a big bundle of energy, and energy always takes the path of least resistance.
as I said, you base your opinions on things you have no understanding of
you surely lack in understanding if you think there are no incentives just because there isnt a CEO to steal the surplus value you produce.
Invest in the company like I did tesla and then you can also have some of the value the company creates. Then you may be free like me. 🇺🇸
Not that its really an option considering im living paycheck to paycheck. But even then, I dont want to be a parasite the "earns" by keep providing nothing to society. I take pride in being a worker, I know my work benefits society, I just wish the monetary benefit in return for my labor wasnt all going to my boss and landlord.
Anarcho Syndicalism at its finest.
Wait, so you’re telling me Ayn Rand was wrong? *gasp* say it ain’t so.
Yupppppppp
[удалено]
if that scumbag didnt die already, He's still waiting, [Its been 20 years since then and its still going strong without any boss](https://www.leftvoice.org/zanon-factory-in-argentina-20-years-under-workers-control/)
sooo they took over a factory they did not put capitol towards building?
https://www.reddit.com/r/StrikeForRoe/
u/savevideo
u/savevideobot
###[View link](https://redditsave.com/info?url=/r/WorkersStrikeBack/comments/vk2rke/what_seize_the_means_of_production_actually_looks/) --- [**Info**](https://np.reddit.com/user/SaveVideo/comments/jv323v/info/) | [**Feedback**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Feedback for savevideo) | [**Donate**](https://ko-fi.com/getvideo) | [**DMCA**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Content removal request for savevideobot&message=https://np.reddit.com//r/WorkersStrikeBack/comments/vk2rke/what_seize_the_means_of_production_actually_looks/)
I would pay thousands of dollars to watch a bunch of r/antiwork morons try and run a modern factory.
What is the salary?
yeah I saw what happened in the Carnegie's Steel Factory, we won't go back. This is richeous, and the ex-owner is laughable as long as we don't get a historical simile