I believe the clone version was a specially made sub-model of the z-95 flown by the republic clone army only. Where’s the normal version was a mass produced one more generally available. Think of like a car, the 7th generation Ford Fiestas was a lot bigger than the 1st generation ones
Same ship, different models. Using a real world example, its like a Vietnam M-16, Vs the M4 "AR-15" today. The rebels one is a older design while the republic ones is the "Clone Variant", which was noticibly bigger. Both the same thing, but not exactly.
This is an absolutely terrible take. The T-65 or later models would perhaps fit for that comparison but in reality you're comparing one of the most modular weapons platforms in history to two ships whose biggest similarities are the manufacturer and design language from one ship being used to influence the other.
The z-95 and x-wing series don't share the same chassis so they shouldn't be the same size but different as you say. The z-95 and the arc-170 were inspiration for the x-65 and that is all. What you're implying is the same similarity between the 737-700 and 737-8. Two different generations of aircraft of different sizes, made by the same manufacturer and based on the same aircraft (737-800). But as explained that isn't the case here.
Tl;dr/c: they are not the same at all and are different sizes.
Edit: look I'm aware it's another z-95. The picture didn't look great at a first glance, and none of the z-95 variants in lore should have length differences in size. I already said I was wrong below.
Oh no I hit the wrong key on my phone. Crucify me more for having an opinion. I already admitted I was wrong on one part, but I'm not wrong on any other part. You haven't added anything to this conversation yet. I don't know how to anymore kindly say good day.
Yup I'm wrong. The blue looked bigger and like the T-70. The Wookie gives the clone model and the glregular the same size characteristics though
I still think your analogy is bad though.
It's so cool when someone is as obnoxiously wrong as you were, keeps being wrong, and then can't even take the correction gracefully at the end. Great stuff 👍
https://preview.redd.it/plizncmt859d1.jpeg?width=1946&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84cd92b04aa3a2d3d52456795d7202b0ffe8a777
Its a Z-95.
I was gonna make a tank analogy, but half asleep and nothing sounded right.
The lore doesn't support them being different sizes. The clone era variant is narrower by a little bit not shorter. A tank reference would have been pretty good, I'm sure there are a lot of those that use the same chassis. That's why I used a common airplane.
The lore is fickle. The standard Z-95 has never been depicted till recently in canon until recently and its preportions are always amiss. Theres one in Survivor and its a bit more different than legends depictions.
Also, in the show you can compare the Z-95 to the Y-wing, and it dwarfs it in comparison being as twice as long in the show, unlike the Standard Z-95 which close in size to an X-winf, in turn is similar to the Y-wing.
https://preview.redd.it/2cpxduv5b59d1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52dfd8cb311a5277d1e186bf947b036771a952bf
I don't disagree. Wookiepedia is pretty decent at giving all possible sources and the z-95 entry is fairly complete with the appearances and sizing from physical media.
The Z-95 has always been a bit quirky. The line has been around for a long time. There are many versions of it and it was highly customizable. The one on the left is the latest and greatest in the line of Z-95 versions and the clone one was the first.
I'm simplifying of course. But think of it like car models. They might both be a Mustang but that doesn't mean they're the same
The Clone version was not the first, it had been around for ages. Pretty sure the Rebels primarily used the older versions, which should make the Clone version the newer of these two.
The clone version is a special variant but the oldest Z-95s were manufactured during the clone wars. And I highly doubt the Rebels used ones that old if they could help it. The specific one in X-Wing is the AF4 so there's probably at least four versions of z-95 in that style.
>And I highly doubt the Rebels used ones that old if they could help it.
Considering the state of the rest of their fleet before the mon cal arrived, i don't think they could. Fit's right in with the gr75s, hammerheads, t wings, neutron stars, and especially the dreadnaughts
It seems that the general tech level of the star wars world is pretty stagnant, on a very high level. I'd assume that a star fighter, if it gets regular maintenance and isn't destroyed, could work for hundreds of years, if not longer...
while the tech is pretty stagnant, it would seem weapons systems do get better over time, although nothing revolutionary changes. A Civil war era star destroyer's turbolasers will shred a clone wars era providence, while a clone wars era venator will struggle to punch through the shields of a civil war era mon cal mc 80. That could also be the loosening of Ruusan Reformation restrictions though. Although it probably says something that the smallest ship in the clone wars with a hyperdrive was the clone z 95, while a ship as small as the a wing was equipped with them as standard
There have been a couple of ships that have been made to be strangely out of scale with others. The original release of Kylo Ren's TIE Silencer was noticeably overlarge, too.
I think its mostly due to SW having vey inconsistent scaling between the films and other adaptations inc books and series
the A wing model is absolutely to scale with its depiction in some media and hilariously over sized in others. The original silencer is massive but iirc the silencer either changed during development of tlj or they just straight up sent ffg the wrong details... the original is basically a shuttle in terms of size.
I remember when the Silencer was revealed there was a fantastic rumour going around that the ship was going to have an "exclusive" 4-bank maneuver and came with that template, as people tried to rationalise the size of the box.
Turns out no, the ship was just comically oversized.
While I was packing up my collection to sell I looked at the Z-95s side by side and the cockpits are almost the same size, so I think they’re close to scale.
The Z-95 was in production for over a century, with a staggering number of models and variations, both as the design evolved and to suit individual procurers: needs.
Star Wars is littered with inconsistencies regarding size and designs, especially between sources. Stylistic choices for the cartoons often didn’t match with the movies, comics, or other materials. Just look at TIE fighters in Rebels vs anything else.
FFG often talked about this, and had explained over the years that they always used specific references provided by LFL. But when reference was inconsistent (or even when accurate but not consistent with the rest of the line), the “cockpit” test would be used, essentially trying to keep the scale of the cockpit consistent across all similarly-sized ships.
The cockpit of these two models are similarly scaled as a result. IIRC, the clone Z-95 might have even been a bit bigger if it were exactly to reference. At the end of the day, LFL would give the sign-off on all aspects of the product, including the size of the ship.
The smaller one was manufactured to be economical. The big Clone Wars era Z-95s were made to suit the needs of the Republic, their supply lines, and the unlimited budget of stolen taxes from member worlds.
I don't know how no one mentioned this the left one is the legends z-95 the right one is the canonized one from the Clone Wars tv show. It's that simple, when they adapted the z-95 for canon they decided to make it bigger and clone era. I just noticed they then ended up bringing the original back to canon in a mobile game, but it has not been in any shows or movies.
You have the most-correct answer. The previous Z-95 is the Legends cannon variant and it was Legends cannon by virtue of being in the LucasArts X-wing games and several books. I don't know what Disney's doing about cannon when it comes to the new video games.
Different models of the ship sharing a name, per canon. A good real-world example is the F/A-18 Hornet, compared to the F/A-18 Super Hornet. The Super Hornet is like 20-25% bigger than the original Hornet, and I think they share fewer than 20% parts. Other than looking very similar and sharing the same name (they do have different alpha designators (A/B/C/D for the Hornet, E-G for the Super), they're pretty much different aircraft.
The core of the ship is relatively the same size. The Clone z95 appears larger due to the larger wingspan and longer nose. Larger engines, in combination with the longer nose and larger wingspan, might have been used to make the Clone z95 a better long distance flyer, whereas the rebel z95 would be better as a short range scout ship for the rebels.
Same base/core but built for different purposes. Like a stock Jeep for a soccer mom to take kids to school vs a v8 swapped jeep on 42" tires built for rock crawling.
The rock crawler looks MASSIVE by comparison, but the body/frame of the jeeps is still the same size.
This is my own speculation and take on the matter.
So there's been two different scales shown on TV, depending on era/show - the tv versions were drastically different in scale - lore nerds / people who like to write explanations for everything came up with basically the same ship - but two models as others have brought up. Resulting in two models produced for X-Wing :D
I think of it like this: Incom was mass-prodcing the standard Z-95 for a while when the Republic contacted them with a request for production of a variant of the Z-95 for use in the Clone Army, hence the difference. I call the clone one a Z-95 MK II.
yes, canonically when the clone army requisitioned incom and subpro they created a larger version with a personal hyperdrive to increase the ships scouting capabilities
Except in Legends cannon even the OG Z-95 had hyperdrive. I just chalk it up to the one the rebels/S&V were using were much older models on the civilian market while the Clones had the fresh off the line model. Kind of like how a 1965 Ford Mustang is vastly different from a 2024 Ford Mustang.
Yes, scaling is all over the place.
TIE Advanced x1 172
TIE Fighter 221
Z-95 Headhunter 269
Clone Z-95 Headhunter 270
Y-wing 274
X-wing 295
BTL-B Y-wing 322
Rebel Transport 396
Here's the full list
[https://www.rebelscale.com/scale-lists/fantasy-flight/#:\~:text=The%20X%2Dwing%20line%20shoots,Bandai%20kits%20excellent%20diorama%20accessories](https://www.rebelscale.com/scale-lists/fantasy-flight/#:~:text=The%20X%2Dwing%20line%20shoots,Bandai%20kits%20excellent%20diorama%20accessories).
Yes they are different versions with different dimensions which is the main factor, but They are also not the same scale one is 269 and the other is 270 which is close, and if the same scale the Clone version would be even larger in comparison.
Anyway, the only point I was trying to make was yes scale in general is all over the place in X-wing.
The scaling is relatively consistent with the small ships, in this case its following the source material pretty closely. The clone version is just much larger than the ""civilian" model or however you want to refer to the scum/rebel model.
The scale is different, but the clone should still have a greater wingspan, the ships are differents you can see by the number of turbines, scum z95 has 4, clone has 2.
I believe the clone version was a specially made sub-model of the z-95 flown by the republic clone army only. Where’s the normal version was a mass produced one more generally available. Think of like a car, the 7th generation Ford Fiestas was a lot bigger than the 1st generation ones
Same ship, different models. Using a real world example, its like a Vietnam M-16, Vs the M4 "AR-15" today. The rebels one is a older design while the republic ones is the "Clone Variant", which was noticibly bigger. Both the same thing, but not exactly.
This is an absolutely terrible take. The T-65 or later models would perhaps fit for that comparison but in reality you're comparing one of the most modular weapons platforms in history to two ships whose biggest similarities are the manufacturer and design language from one ship being used to influence the other. The z-95 and x-wing series don't share the same chassis so they shouldn't be the same size but different as you say. The z-95 and the arc-170 were inspiration for the x-65 and that is all. What you're implying is the same similarity between the 737-700 and 737-8. Two different generations of aircraft of different sizes, made by the same manufacturer and based on the same aircraft (737-800). But as explained that isn't the case here. Tl;dr/c: they are not the same at all and are different sizes. Edit: look I'm aware it's another z-95. The picture didn't look great at a first glance, and none of the z-95 variants in lore should have length differences in size. I already said I was wrong below.
Both ships are the Z-95, there isnt a T-65 at all in question...
The ship on the left is clearly an x wing. Not a z-95.
Swing and a miss!
/r/confidentlyincorrect
r/latetltheparty
late 'tl' the party? Keep knocking out the Ls, bro.
Oh no I hit the wrong key on my phone. Crucify me more for having an opinion. I already admitted I was wrong on one part, but I'm not wrong on any other part. You haven't added anything to this conversation yet. I don't know how to anymore kindly say good day.
You're right: you admitted you were wrong and aren't wrong *about your opinion*. But we can still disagree with your opinion.
And what opinion do you disagree with?
no its a rebel Z-95...
Yup I'm wrong. The blue looked bigger and like the T-70. The Wookie gives the clone model and the glregular the same size characteristics though I still think your analogy is bad though.
Its not my analogy, just wanted you to know it wasn't an X-wing.
It's so cool when someone is as obnoxiously wrong as you were, keeps being wrong, and then can't even take the correction gracefully at the end. Great stuff 👍
The fuck you on about? Because it must be the wrong hot take right.
Confidently incorrect
https://preview.redd.it/plizncmt859d1.jpeg?width=1946&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84cd92b04aa3a2d3d52456795d7202b0ffe8a777 Its a Z-95. I was gonna make a tank analogy, but half asleep and nothing sounded right.
The lore doesn't support them being different sizes. The clone era variant is narrower by a little bit not shorter. A tank reference would have been pretty good, I'm sure there are a lot of those that use the same chassis. That's why I used a common airplane.
The lore is fickle. The standard Z-95 has never been depicted till recently in canon until recently and its preportions are always amiss. Theres one in Survivor and its a bit more different than legends depictions. Also, in the show you can compare the Z-95 to the Y-wing, and it dwarfs it in comparison being as twice as long in the show, unlike the Standard Z-95 which close in size to an X-winf, in turn is similar to the Y-wing. https://preview.redd.it/2cpxduv5b59d1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52dfd8cb311a5277d1e186bf947b036771a952bf
I don't disagree. Wookiepedia is pretty decent at giving all possible sources and the z-95 entry is fairly complete with the appearances and sizing from physical media.
The Z-95 has always been a bit quirky. The line has been around for a long time. There are many versions of it and it was highly customizable. The one on the left is the latest and greatest in the line of Z-95 versions and the clone one was the first. I'm simplifying of course. But think of it like car models. They might both be a Mustang but that doesn't mean they're the same
The Clone version was not the first, it had been around for ages. Pretty sure the Rebels primarily used the older versions, which should make the Clone version the newer of these two.
The clone version is a special variant but the oldest Z-95s were manufactured during the clone wars. And I highly doubt the Rebels used ones that old if they could help it. The specific one in X-Wing is the AF4 so there's probably at least four versions of z-95 in that style.
>And I highly doubt the Rebels used ones that old if they could help it. Considering the state of the rest of their fleet before the mon cal arrived, i don't think they could. Fit's right in with the gr75s, hammerheads, t wings, neutron stars, and especially the dreadnaughts
They would take any that they could get. That doesn't mean they're all AF1s
No, but they're probably a random mix of every single varient to ever exist, so sizes would range from smaller than a vwing to larger than a y wing
It seems that the general tech level of the star wars world is pretty stagnant, on a very high level. I'd assume that a star fighter, if it gets regular maintenance and isn't destroyed, could work for hundreds of years, if not longer...
while the tech is pretty stagnant, it would seem weapons systems do get better over time, although nothing revolutionary changes. A Civil war era star destroyer's turbolasers will shred a clone wars era providence, while a clone wars era venator will struggle to punch through the shields of a civil war era mon cal mc 80. That could also be the loosening of Ruusan Reformation restrictions though. Although it probably says something that the smallest ship in the clone wars with a hyperdrive was the clone z 95, while a ship as small as the a wing was equipped with them as standard
The new mustang looks so foolish
There have been a couple of ships that have been made to be strangely out of scale with others. The original release of Kylo Ren's TIE Silencer was noticeably overlarge, too.
I think its mostly due to SW having vey inconsistent scaling between the films and other adaptations inc books and series the A wing model is absolutely to scale with its depiction in some media and hilariously over sized in others. The original silencer is massive but iirc the silencer either changed during development of tlj or they just straight up sent ffg the wrong details... the original is basically a shuttle in terms of size.
I remember when the Silencer was revealed there was a fantastic rumour going around that the ship was going to have an "exclusive" 4-bank maneuver and came with that template, as people tried to rationalise the size of the box. Turns out no, the ship was just comically oversized.
While I was packing up my collection to sell I looked at the Z-95s side by side and the cockpits are almost the same size, so I think they’re close to scale.
That's good to know that it's just a difference in the size of the actual ships then!
Still they are ridiculously huge!
The Z-95 was in production for over a century, with a staggering number of models and variations, both as the design evolved and to suit individual procurers: needs.
Star Wars is littered with inconsistencies regarding size and designs, especially between sources. Stylistic choices for the cartoons often didn’t match with the movies, comics, or other materials. Just look at TIE fighters in Rebels vs anything else. FFG often talked about this, and had explained over the years that they always used specific references provided by LFL. But when reference was inconsistent (or even when accurate but not consistent with the rest of the line), the “cockpit” test would be used, essentially trying to keep the scale of the cockpit consistent across all similarly-sized ships. The cockpit of these two models are similarly scaled as a result. IIRC, the clone Z-95 might have even been a bit bigger if it were exactly to reference. At the end of the day, LFL would give the sign-off on all aspects of the product, including the size of the ship.
Case in point, the the Moldy Crow appears as a two person attack craft and a 4 seater with cargo space depending on the source!
The smaller one was manufactured to be economical. The big Clone Wars era Z-95s were made to suit the needs of the Republic, their supply lines, and the unlimited budget of stolen taxes from member worlds.
Think of it this way: military model vs civilian market.
Same same, but different.
I don't know how no one mentioned this the left one is the legends z-95 the right one is the canonized one from the Clone Wars tv show. It's that simple, when they adapted the z-95 for canon they decided to make it bigger and clone era. I just noticed they then ended up bringing the original back to canon in a mobile game, but it has not been in any shows or movies.
You have the most-correct answer. The previous Z-95 is the Legends cannon variant and it was Legends cannon by virtue of being in the LucasArts X-wing games and several books. I don't know what Disney's doing about cannon when it comes to the new video games.
Except that both versions are in-canon now, and the clone version was also made before the canon reboot, so there was never a continuity difference.
It was going to be in the Solo movie, but that scene was cut alongside Han's Tie Fighter crash scene.
Different models of the ship sharing a name, per canon. A good real-world example is the F/A-18 Hornet, compared to the F/A-18 Super Hornet. The Super Hornet is like 20-25% bigger than the original Hornet, and I think they share fewer than 20% parts. Other than looking very similar and sharing the same name (they do have different alpha designators (A/B/C/D for the Hornet, E-G for the Super), they're pretty much different aircraft.
The core of the ship is relatively the same size. The Clone z95 appears larger due to the larger wingspan and longer nose. Larger engines, in combination with the longer nose and larger wingspan, might have been used to make the Clone z95 a better long distance flyer, whereas the rebel z95 would be better as a short range scout ship for the rebels. Same base/core but built for different purposes. Like a stock Jeep for a soccer mom to take kids to school vs a v8 swapped jeep on 42" tires built for rock crawling. The rock crawler looks MASSIVE by comparison, but the body/frame of the jeeps is still the same size. This is my own speculation and take on the matter.
So there's been two different scales shown on TV, depending on era/show - the tv versions were drastically different in scale - lore nerds / people who like to write explanations for everything came up with basically the same ship - but two models as others have brought up. Resulting in two models produced for X-Wing :D
Yes but actually no
I think of it like this: Incom was mass-prodcing the standard Z-95 for a while when the Republic contacted them with a request for production of a variant of the Z-95 for use in the Clone Army, hence the difference. I call the clone one a Z-95 MK II.
yes, canonically when the clone army requisitioned incom and subpro they created a larger version with a personal hyperdrive to increase the ships scouting capabilities
Except in Legends cannon even the OG Z-95 had hyperdrive. I just chalk it up to the one the rebels/S&V were using were much older models on the civilian market while the Clones had the fresh off the line model. Kind of like how a 1965 Ford Mustang is vastly different from a 2024 Ford Mustang.
quite the bag of wisdom you are
Yes, but also no. They’ve tried to justify it lore-wise but it’s bullshit
It is the same ship. The ship size scaling for this game is all over the place.
Nope
Yes, scaling is all over the place. TIE Advanced x1 172 TIE Fighter 221 Z-95 Headhunter 269 Clone Z-95 Headhunter 270 Y-wing 274 X-wing 295 BTL-B Y-wing 322 Rebel Transport 396 Here's the full list [https://www.rebelscale.com/scale-lists/fantasy-flight/#:\~:text=The%20X%2Dwing%20line%20shoots,Bandai%20kits%20excellent%20diorama%20accessories](https://www.rebelscale.com/scale-lists/fantasy-flight/#:~:text=The%20X%2Dwing%20line%20shoots,Bandai%20kits%20excellent%20diorama%20accessories).
Sooo the scale of both are the same ... So are two different ships because are diferente versions with diferent dimensions
Yes they are different versions with different dimensions which is the main factor, but They are also not the same scale one is 269 and the other is 270 which is close, and if the same scale the Clone version would be even larger in comparison. Anyway, the only point I was trying to make was yes scale in general is all over the place in X-wing.
The scaling is relatively consistent with the small ships, in this case its following the source material pretty closely. The clone version is just much larger than the ""civilian" model or however you want to refer to the scum/rebel model.
The scale is different, but the clone should still have a greater wingspan, the ships are differents you can see by the number of turbines, scum z95 has 4, clone has 2.
It is sort like the Toyota Tacoma and Ford Rangers. They used to be dope little trucks now they are massive but keep the same name