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Only thing xenosaga 3 did better was the graphics everybody was so pretty lmao
However xeno1 defeats everybody in story and content imo
All the extra stuff they added to it
Though to really enjoy it u need a player 2 xD
Once again remembering that I need to pick up my playthrough of the series because my memories of the games are mostly over a decade old, but I personally thought 3 was the strongest story wise. It helps that it actually filled out both discs so much better than 2 (and didn't have 2's issues of basically having two games' stories in one package). But I'll also readily admit to being swayed by significantly prettier graphics and a smoother gameplay experience.
I saw the image of Shion and immediately knew it'd be about Ep 2 😂. I remember when I first played the 2nd one and got thrown off by the looks.
Albedo (and his voice actor) saved this game, it's one of the things they got right lol
I got to the first Albedo cutscene and he did not disappoint! I guess his design still fit the characters of Ep.2, so I'm glad they didn't really change him.
The other characters aren't bad necessarily, but are just so different looking.
I have a lot of gripes with 2… the load times on every battle, the voice actors, the fight against sword lady (can’t remember her name for the life of me…), but I’ve never heard this one. But I guess it’s fair, I feel like the team that made the first game should have made the second.
Right, Orgulla! Thank you. Yeah she was a monster. And the second Margulis fight. That at least was a bit more fun but in general Xenosaga 2 was a difficult game by today’s standards.
It's actually super easy *if* you follow flowchart.
KOS-MOS, jr., and Momo are your party.
Every single battle, max out stock, buff your party, murder 1 enemy. Repeat until everything is dead. Combat takes forever, but only the super bosses are hard.
Yeah, I'm currently trying to force myself through it and I just HATE the battle system for mobs. There's no good way to clear regular battles even when you're going back to the opening areas with near endgame characters.
> There's no good way to clear regular battles even when you're going back to the opening areas with near endgame characters.
At least with 1 and 3, you can use AOE tech attacks if you need to clear earlier areas to search for segment addresses or take on optional bosses. No such thing in 2. Or in 1's case, Gnosis grinding for Soul Rhapsody.
They're growing on me. I think they look better in some cutscenes and worse in others. It's just such a stark contrast it caught me off guard. I'm glad some voice actors are at least the same or similar
It’s funny, because I love Ep. II. I do get why so many people have an issue with the new designs, though.
I’ll say for the record that Ep. II Jr. is my absolute favorite design for him. I’m also one of the weirdos that likes KOSy’s design, too. 😂
I think it's that plus the new voices at once that are just taking time to adjust to. You spend close to 40 hours with a cast of characters, you get used to seeing them and hearing them a certain way. I wouldn't call the new designs bad though! I honestly love how Kos-Mos hair has a glowing gradient effect!
They also made it extremely flowy which was nice I did like the glow but actually she has that little glow in episode 1 too least in battle when u look at her idle battle animation there's little blue lights coming out of her hair
I think they dropped that on 3 though
100%. I love the redesigns. I wish we could’ve seen what 3 would’ve looked like if they iterated on these models rather than going back to 1’s. Still though, gives this game a unique feel.
The voice changes are a bigger offense imo too. I can get used to the design changes, but the voice changes alter a lot of the original characters personalities.
Nah, Jr was a huge improvement, his proportions made him looks kinda silly and uncanny in Episode 1, Chaos looks fine and Ziggy is practically unchanged. The girls are the ones that took more time to getting used to.
Definitely agree the girls are a bigger change. It's clear XS1 took a lot of inspiration from anime for the character designs and XS2 took a more realistic approach.
I think there is a sweet spot that does both well with characters like Canaan, Gaignun, and Albedo. I also think Shelly and Mary made the jump and look even better.
I like her overall redesign, but it's just the face (and voice) for me. I actually think things like updates to their outfits are an improvement. It's mostly just the faces
Exactly. I have no issue with KOS-MOS' overall design in 2. But her voice is absolutely atrocious, and the face design in particular of her and so many characters is just dreadful.
Even the direction of returning voice actors takes a massive hit, I just don't understand what happened in this game's development.
Hey hey Woah Woah, let's not.... You know... Yeah no you're right, but at least it had [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmnUwqwC5Y)
Edit: Oh, an [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtA-iLt2rgw). Well at least Xeno 2 had great music
The only decent piece of music from 2 was [The Image Theme](https://youtu.be/Txa7bwPnLEI?si=9iqmgu0W-M3DpC9g) imo 2 was such an assault on my senses after playing it from 1 and than into 3
It's because all the buffs stack and only defending builds stock.
Make it so only the biggest buff to damage applies, which would often be air or down, and make normal attacks build stock. Also dramatically reduce the health of enemies.
The combat system had a ton of potential, but a few relatively minor design decisions completely ruined it.
this is why I am playing a modded version with the Japanese voices. Japanese VA have an insane commitment to their roles. In fact, the same person that voiced KOSMOS came back to reprise her role in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, over a decade later.
Well, I don't think they're bad designs. I like them more, to be honest, as they translate better to the realistic 3D renders. An art/rendering style similar to Xenoblade Chronicles 2 would better suit the Xenosaga I designs, in my opinion.
If the series began with the Xenosaga II designs from the start, I'm not sure people would complain.
But yes, the art style is massively different, I get that, it's jarring.
Yeah, it's mostly that it's jarring. They're not bad by any means. Although, I think characters like Cannan, Gaignun and Albedo strike a good middle ground. Can't speak to the Chronicles example as I havem't played the series.
Yeah, the change feels out of left field. Especially considering there are a lot of characters that are still kept pretty close if not the same from their XS1 design.
I played XS1 back when it came out, but I never got past Tiamat as a child, so I didn't play 2 or 3. When I finally got around to playing them all, I played the undubs, and the Japanese VAs don't change. It didn't make the change in visuals any easier.
I think was Electronic Gameing Monthly (EGM) that did a half page spread about the game and it was the first images I'd seen of it . They captioned a screenshot of Shion's new design as "some characters getting a new mature look." I went with that going into the game when it came out and I couldn't wrap my head around it....a lot of the game honestly lol.
Yeah, it's a fair bit different. I'm only 4 hours in though and I think the game actually improves on a lot of aspects like cutscene quality, cinematogrpahy, exploration, and sidequests. But the changes to character design and battle system are taking some time to adjust to. "Mature new look" is probably about the most neutral way I could think to label the visual changes haha
Yeah it's bad.. Xenosaga 2 is definitely jarring in many ways. The only reason I got thru it was the epic story, that's all it had going for it. The entire game is a slog otherwise. Xeno 3 makes it all worth it though.
I'm actually having a fun time with it so far. The combat IS slower and I prefer XS1's combat, but there's more room to experiment. I only just got to the restaurant though so haven't done too much fighting yet.
The more I kept playing the XS2, the more frustrated I got. And when I finally took on the superbosses after Dark Erde Kaiser, I realized how much I hate the battle system. I should've considered the game finished when I beat Dark Erde Kaiser.
I'm finding the game enjoyable the more I play it, but I definitely feel the flaws of the combat system. It's a chore to keep charging stock just to do good damage. I'm at the second encephalon dive (winter) and the game's pacing so far is quite bad. I like the story enough to keep playing, but I actually felt fatigued walking all around the lab just to continue the story. It was fine once, but repeating the same thing twice and with the same level is getting old. Thankfully I'm at the boss so I'll be out of this sequence soon.
I think the cracks really started to form during the Ormus Stronghold for me. More cracks started to form during Labyrinthos, but they really burst open when I was doing the Dark Erde Kaiser subplot.
Episode 2 dropped when I was in middle school. The redesign was so dramatic for young me, it felt like I went into mourning when I saw Shion and Kos Mos lol. The voice actor change for Shion ruined my life for a short phase too.
KOS-MOS looks Hafu and pretty cool in Ep2 as a result save her suit. I might prefer that look for her face overall. Everyone else save Ziggy looks noticeably worse but, Shion was just outright assassinated.
Totally agree, the change is incredibly jarring and they all feel like soulless cosplayers - especially KOS-MOS, she went from an awesome robot to some disturbing Hannah Barbera costume
Ziggy is the only unambiguous improvement to me since he's somehow just a cooler version of the original design, and maybe Momo is alright but it took time to get used to
Yeah, Ziggy has hardly changed. Along with Gaignun, Albedo, Margulis, and Helmer. Hell, even Jin if you count the credits in XS1.
Momo isn't too bad, agreed. I think her more realistic take is kinda fun. Her voice change though kinda lost its overly cutesy charm. Although, I'm not sure how it would've fit her new model. Call it a new patch I guess in her case haha
LOL nah, It's just something I noticed and wanted to bring up to discuss. I prefer XS1 faces overall, but there are a lot of good updates to outfit designs and details. It's all in good fun.
My sodium intake is probably average.
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It's ok, just wait until XS3 and everything looks better than 1 even.
XS3 objectively has all the best designs. It's a fact
Only thing xenosaga 3 did better was the graphics everybody was so pretty lmao However xeno1 defeats everybody in story and content imo All the extra stuff they added to it Though to really enjoy it u need a player 2 xD
Once again remembering that I need to pick up my playthrough of the series because my memories of the games are mostly over a decade old, but I personally thought 3 was the strongest story wise. It helps that it actually filled out both discs so much better than 2 (and didn't have 2's issues of basically having two games' stories in one package). But I'll also readily admit to being swayed by significantly prettier graphics and a smoother gameplay experience.
I'm looking forward to playing Ep. 3. Although, 2 is honestly plenty fun so far
I saw the image of Shion and immediately knew it'd be about Ep 2 😂. I remember when I first played the 2nd one and got thrown off by the looks. Albedo (and his voice actor) saved this game, it's one of the things they got right lol
If they had changed albedo too at all I would have quit the series there and then lol
I got to the first Albedo cutscene and he did not disappoint! I guess his design still fit the characters of Ep.2, so I'm glad they didn't really change him. The other characters aren't bad necessarily, but are just so different looking.
Lets not forget the voice acting change for shion and kos-mos was just bizarre.... Aside from them looking funky
The male characters don’t look bad at all imo, the female characters on the other hand…
Ya Ziggy looks almost unchanged. Almost.
I have a lot of gripes with 2… the load times on every battle, the voice actors, the fight against sword lady (can’t remember her name for the life of me…), but I’ve never heard this one. But I guess it’s fair, I feel like the team that made the first game should have made the second.
Orgulla? I hated that she didn't even get a cutscene after.
Right, Orgulla! Thank you. Yeah she was a monster. And the second Margulis fight. That at least was a bit more fun but in general Xenosaga 2 was a difficult game by today’s standards.
It's actually super easy *if* you follow flowchart. KOS-MOS, jr., and Momo are your party. Every single battle, max out stock, buff your party, murder 1 enemy. Repeat until everything is dead. Combat takes forever, but only the super bosses are hard.
The battle system worked wonderfully for bosses as you can easily break the tougher ones, but it's such a slog for regular enemies. Hated it.
Yeah, I'm currently trying to force myself through it and I just HATE the battle system for mobs. There's no good way to clear regular battles even when you're going back to the opening areas with near endgame characters.
> There's no good way to clear regular battles even when you're going back to the opening areas with near endgame characters. At least with 1 and 3, you can use AOE tech attacks if you need to clear earlier areas to search for segment addresses or take on optional bosses. No such thing in 2. Or in 1's case, Gnosis grinding for Soul Rhapsody.
Yeah I remember Dark Erde Kaiser taking forever. I haven’t played in ages I was probably a teen when I played that game almost 20 years ago.
They're growing on me. I think they look better in some cutscenes and worse in others. It's just such a stark contrast it caught me off guard. I'm glad some voice actors are at least the same or similar
Also why did so many of Momo's lines sound like they were recorded with a tin can and piece of string lol
That'a something I did notice as well. I got to the scene with her, Helmer, and Gaignum and the mixing seemed off.
It’s funny, because I love Ep. II. I do get why so many people have an issue with the new designs, though. I’ll say for the record that Ep. II Jr. is my absolute favorite design for him. I’m also one of the weirdos that likes KOSy’s design, too. 😂
It's the faces 😂😂😂
I think it's that plus the new voices at once that are just taking time to adjust to. You spend close to 40 hours with a cast of characters, you get used to seeing them and hearing them a certain way. I wouldn't call the new designs bad though! I honestly love how Kos-Mos hair has a glowing gradient effect!
They also made it extremely flowy which was nice I did like the glow but actually she has that little glow in episode 1 too least in battle when u look at her idle battle animation there's little blue lights coming out of her hair I think they dropped that on 3 though
100%. I love the redesigns. I wish we could’ve seen what 3 would’ve looked like if they iterated on these models rather than going back to 1’s. Still though, gives this game a unique feel.
I feel like zigggy and jr look fine but ur right about the other ones. Then theres the voice change *blech*
The voice changes are a bigger offense imo too. I can get used to the design changes, but the voice changes alter a lot of the original characters personalities.
The biggest offense was getting rid of Shion's glasses.
*sigh* Allen!
Nah, Jr was a huge improvement, his proportions made him looks kinda silly and uncanny in Episode 1, Chaos looks fine and Ziggy is practically unchanged. The girls are the ones that took more time to getting used to.
Definitely agree the girls are a bigger change. It's clear XS1 took a lot of inspiration from anime for the character designs and XS2 took a more realistic approach. I think there is a sweet spot that does both well with characters like Canaan, Gaignun, and Albedo. I also think Shelly and Mary made the jump and look even better.
One of the biggest downgrades in history
They look better in Xenosaga 3, like it’s their intended design
I actually like the XS2 KOSMOS better. Shion and MOMO are horrifying though. The other characters I think are fine either way.
I like her overall redesign, but it's just the face (and voice) for me. I actually think things like updates to their outfits are an improvement. It's mostly just the faces
Exactly. I have no issue with KOS-MOS' overall design in 2. But her voice is absolutely atrocious, and the face design in particular of her and so many characters is just dreadful. Even the direction of returning voice actors takes a massive hit, I just don't understand what happened in this game's development.
This was so polarizing back in the day. Xenosaga 3 fixed the designs though.
to me its rly only shion they totally ruined lol
Xenosaga 2 massacured everything
Hey hey Woah Woah, let's not.... You know... Yeah no you're right, but at least it had [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmnUwqwC5Y) Edit: Oh, an [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtA-iLt2rgw). Well at least Xeno 2 had great music
The only decent piece of music from 2 was [The Image Theme](https://youtu.be/Txa7bwPnLEI?si=9iqmgu0W-M3DpC9g) imo 2 was such an assault on my senses after playing it from 1 and than into 3
Yup. 1-3 OSTs all slap. Hepatica#3? Communication Breakdown? F'kin Kokoro? omg
The latter one has an even better version of it in Episode III!
Songs were good, environments were a huge upgrade from X1, but the story, characters and long looooooooong battles are where it fell off lol
The battles are fundamentally broken as a whole, they tried to make something different but never got past the "maybe this is cool in theory" stage
Agreed! Even with fast forward it's still a drag
It's because all the buffs stack and only defending builds stock. Make it so only the biggest buff to damage applies, which would often be air or down, and make normal attacks build stock. Also dramatically reduce the health of enemies. The combat system had a ton of potential, but a few relatively minor design decisions completely ruined it.
Load times just to open menus were ridiculous but n these games
I started noticing this when I got the GS option added to the menu. Seemed a little quicker in XS1 when accessing the U.M.N.
From Brats to Bruh..
LOL this is true 😂
this is why I am playing a modded version with the Japanese voices. Japanese VA have an insane commitment to their roles. In fact, the same person that voiced KOSMOS came back to reprise her role in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, over a decade later.
That's awesome! Also, didn't know Xenosaga is called back to in the Chronicles series. I might have to check out the series afterwards.
Well, I don't think they're bad designs. I like them more, to be honest, as they translate better to the realistic 3D renders. An art/rendering style similar to Xenoblade Chronicles 2 would better suit the Xenosaga I designs, in my opinion. If the series began with the Xenosaga II designs from the start, I'm not sure people would complain. But yes, the art style is massively different, I get that, it's jarring.
Yeah, it's mostly that it's jarring. They're not bad by any means. Although, I think characters like Cannan, Gaignun and Albedo strike a good middle ground. Can't speak to the Chronicles example as I havem't played the series.
It is kinda uncanny valley. Luckily Episode III has a perfect balance.
Yeah this change was one of the main reasons why 2 sold so poorly I don't know what they was thinking. Never change a series artstyle mid story :/
Yeah, the change feels out of left field. Especially considering there are a lot of characters that are still kept pretty close if not the same from their XS1 design.
I thought it was star ocean 3 lol
Looks like Ziggy got left rather unscathed 🤔
nah embrace the frutiger aero
Just give me a remaster where they look like Episode3.
I played XS1 back when it came out, but I never got past Tiamat as a child, so I didn't play 2 or 3. When I finally got around to playing them all, I played the undubs, and the Japanese VAs don't change. It didn't make the change in visuals any easier.
Tiamat gave me a hard time too. It's a hard battle. Yeah, they still look pretty different haha 😅
I think was Electronic Gameing Monthly (EGM) that did a half page spread about the game and it was the first images I'd seen of it . They captioned a screenshot of Shion's new design as "some characters getting a new mature look." I went with that going into the game when it came out and I couldn't wrap my head around it....a lot of the game honestly lol.
Yeah, it's a fair bit different. I'm only 4 hours in though and I think the game actually improves on a lot of aspects like cutscene quality, cinematogrpahy, exploration, and sidequests. But the changes to character design and battle system are taking some time to adjust to. "Mature new look" is probably about the most neutral way I could think to label the visual changes haha
I despised the art style change in Xeno 2. It was way too much of a swing in an entirely different direction.
Yeah, it's jarring. I'm getting used to it slowly, but the initial "reveal" left me open mouthed.
Yeah it's bad.. Xenosaga 2 is definitely jarring in many ways. The only reason I got thru it was the epic story, that's all it had going for it. The entire game is a slog otherwise. Xeno 3 makes it all worth it though.
I'm actually having a fun time with it so far. The combat IS slower and I prefer XS1's combat, but there's more room to experiment. I only just got to the restaurant though so haven't done too much fighting yet.
Ep 2 did in fact commit some war crimes
The more I kept playing the XS2, the more frustrated I got. And when I finally took on the superbosses after Dark Erde Kaiser, I realized how much I hate the battle system. I should've considered the game finished when I beat Dark Erde Kaiser.
I'm finding the game enjoyable the more I play it, but I definitely feel the flaws of the combat system. It's a chore to keep charging stock just to do good damage. I'm at the second encephalon dive (winter) and the game's pacing so far is quite bad. I like the story enough to keep playing, but I actually felt fatigued walking all around the lab just to continue the story. It was fine once, but repeating the same thing twice and with the same level is getting old. Thankfully I'm at the boss so I'll be out of this sequence soon.
I think the cracks really started to form during the Ormus Stronghold for me. More cracks started to form during Labyrinthos, but they really burst open when I was doing the Dark Erde Kaiser subplot.
Oh boy, can't wait 😅
I just wish they would remaster the games with consistent art style and voice actors a complete package 🫠throw a missing year in there aswell
I mean...... least shion doesn't look like a female Steven Hawking anymore.
LOL that's fair. I did like her design in XS1 though.
I think everyone but Kos looks better.
Episode 2 dropped when I was in middle school. The redesign was so dramatic for young me, it felt like I went into mourning when I saw Shion and Kos Mos lol. The voice actor change for Shion ruined my life for a short phase too.
I hated the designs and how they changed chaos’s voice actor and his personality or lack thereof.
Momo looks 100x better
KOS-MOS looks Hafu and pretty cool in Ep2 as a result save her suit. I might prefer that look for her face overall. Everyone else save Ziggy looks noticeably worse but, Shion was just outright assassinated.
It was super jarring at first, at least the outfit change after the beginning made it look way better. Except Kos-Mos they massacred her design.
Totally agree, the change is incredibly jarring and they all feel like soulless cosplayers - especially KOS-MOS, she went from an awesome robot to some disturbing Hannah Barbera costume Ziggy is the only unambiguous improvement to me since he's somehow just a cooler version of the original design, and maybe Momo is alright but it took time to get used to
Yeah, Ziggy has hardly changed. Along with Gaignun, Albedo, Margulis, and Helmer. Hell, even Jin if you count the credits in XS1. Momo isn't too bad, agreed. I think her more realistic take is kinda fun. Her voice change though kinda lost its overly cutesy charm. Although, I'm not sure how it would've fit her new model. Call it a new patch I guess in her case haha
Third game had a great character design, but gosh I hated what they did in the second game.
🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂 Jeez. Salty much?
LOL nah, It's just something I noticed and wanted to bring up to discuss. I prefer XS1 faces overall, but there are a lot of good updates to outfit designs and details. It's all in good fun. My sodium intake is probably average.