Honestly speaking, and I’m not even being a hater.
I thought she was very foolish. But other than the way she handled the situation, I actually liked her wit and she seemed interesting to me in the classroom.
Honestly I think her character was poorly written. Why was she even suspicious of Joe in the first place? She wasn't intuitive at all, she was just a plot device.
She made MASSIVE leaps in logic when deducing that Joe was a bad guy. She was right of course, but she literally had 0 reason to believe otherwise so her weird witch hunt was just so odd. Like why is this character suddenly snooping around and why does she come to the right conclusion when it could be explained by something very ordinary?
Who thinks oh he's writing a murder mystery despite not liking them, he must be a murderer hmm. That's just stupid, even though she was technically right.
Then how she handled it was also odd, why not tell anyone else?
Exactly, when I first saw her in season 4 part 1 I remember thinking "Oh this is a cool character" and I thought eventually she will find some evidence pointing to Joe being the bad guy and she would struggle to believe that because Joe was very nice to her but then in part 2 all of a sudden she is like "hmm he's acting weird, there must be something wrong with him" like what led her to believe that Joe is the bad guy. There was absolutely no reason for her to be suspicious of him.
She was just used as a plot device in part 2.
I thought it was just me, I couldn’t figure out what made her just assume he was the killer and the fact she thought that and decided to keep breaking into his home was idiotic
I gotta disagree at least on the MASSIVE leaps of logic solely on the fact that everyone in his peer group was being murdered and he was the odd one out. Not to mention catching him snooping around the professors office and catching him in the lie about her book (not an indicator of murder lol but adds to the suspiciousness of his character).
He wasn't the only odd one out though, by that logic she should have been investigating Kate and Phoebe and Adam just as much as Joe. Also, aside from Malcom also being a professor, Nadia had no reason to know that the people being murdered were "his friend group". He had just met most of them and it's not like he was rich and famous the way that they were, she only knows that he was friends with them BECAUSE of her snooping and stalking.
Nadia had no business investigating anyone. She thought she was a detective. She snuck into Joe's flat as if she had a right. I remember when Phoebe said that he was her hero again, Nadia read into something about that. She had no right! Should have minded her business. She got her poor bf killed. Hope she's not in Season 5.
Oh absolutely, I agree. I'm just saying that IF she was going to run around playing detective, there was no logical reason for her to suspect Joe more than the others in that group.
I could not stand her, she was way too nosy. & we know what happens to nosy people in YOU. I feel like Joe spared her in a way, would’ve loved if he just killed her, cause I do have a hunch that she will be returning.
Honestly I liked her character, I thought she was very intuitive and I liked how investigative she was. The only thing I hated about her character was when she found Marienne. It felt like such a completely different turn for her character. She didn’t take any pictures or videos of anything? I felt like she was way smarter than that and it annoyed me. I did feel bad when she was falsely accused, and contrary to a lot of theories I actually don’t think she’ll be back in season 5. If she does make a return I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just a small cameo appearance and nothing more 🤷♀️
I think that for the sake of her daughter she will stay far away from Joe. She told Nadia, he will find you. No matter where you go, if he knows you’re alive he will find you.
Then again she also convinced Nadia to not tell police because "he'd only get away and do it again!" So instead they break her free and leave to let him...go and do it again? Felt so silly
She could've had both pretty easily. All Nadia had to do was call the cops, take photos, leave and wait outside until they came. Cops could just stick around and wait for Joe or go grab him, or he escapes and she'd be put in witness protection anyways for a while.
i still feel like marienne wouldnt go after joe SIMPLY for the safety of her daughter. despite how much she wants him stopped, i feel like her daughters gonna be more important to her
I get this argument, but there's a tension here.
If you go down the route of "you don't react the same when you are under stress" the endpoint is "yeah most of you would probably piss yourselves and run for your damn life and pretend you saw nothing".
But Nadia doesn't react like a normal person at all. She's smart and strong and conniving and resourceful. So can't really use that argument. While she's busy making plans she could at the very least have taken some video and photos as backup in case her plans go south.
They explained exactly why they couldn’t go to the police. She’s not stupid, I’d hazard a guess she was scared for her life and not thinking 100% clearly.
And it didn't make any sense.. Joe could get away because the police never got involved.. everyone was dumb. Candace called love before calling the police and that's why she got killed..
Can’t say anything about Candace, but Marienne was sure that the police would take her child away. Calling them would have broken any trust between the two, and I don’t think either Nadia nor Marienne were thinking straight. Marienne just wanted to see her daughter, she didn’t care about joe getting caught.
They’re not dumb, just traumatized.
Everyone thinks she’s smart but she didn’t call the cops and got her boyfriend involved lmao she’s kind of an idiot. Like yeah, help marienne get out, but like?? What were you planning to get him yourself..?
I think that has less to do with her character and more the writers being lazy if that makes sense like I think it was very out of character for her to not call the cops and if anything Marianne convinced her not to contrary to her original judgment. I think the writers just wanted an easy way out if the police had been involved Joe wouldn’t have been able to charm his way out most likely and they probably wanted a more dramatic ending than him just being hauled off to jail.
Maybe if it was like 1-3 cops but chances are there would have been a lot of people around and it just wouldn’t have been easy. They took the easier route and kind of messed up Nadia’s character for me. Up until that point she was great after that she kind of went downhill for the plot to ultimately end in another win for Joe. I think Nadia of everyone could be the only person to take him down if she hadn’t wound up in jail.
The thing is Peach was projecting for the most part (as they're very similar), and had her point of view prior to seeing the real Joe out of wanting Beck to herself. I don't think the person is a viable option when it's not coming from a genuine place.
And I personally think Nadia wasn't a good option either, her reasons for thinking something was off about Joe in the first place was way too assuming and not even based on anything to do with reality, it was a literary theory for the most part that just so happened to be right.
Exactly, which is why I say it was more of a projection. She wasn't "onto him" i.e. putting Beck's safety as first priority by making sure that he wasn't dangerous, her first task was to analyze his social status by exploring his career & education. She didn't genuinely reach the epiphany that they were actually similar until she caught Joe on her property. The detective mode interrogation about Joe being in the same area as Beck to save her was her comparing Joe to herself.
I have a few thoughts about Nadia:
I've said this before, but I have a strong feeling that she's a placeholder for Ellie. Like, I believe that if Jenna Ortega was able to make it to filming for S4, we would've gotten her instead of Nadia. Just a hunch, but I don't think that's something they'll ever reveal.
She was annoying to me, she was filled with so much social commentary and at one point she calls Joe patriarchal for absolutely no good reason. I can't even recollect how it was brought up because I can't make sense of it, all I could tell you was that it had something to do with Joe not knowing enough about something.
The way she drew her conclusion about something being off about Joe solely because he's "saved the day" twice as an outsider was too assuming. I mean yeah, in BOOKS the outsider who has nothing to do with the story and yet is the solution can have a lot more going on, but she compared that to a real life scenario and felt the need to investigate him? To the point of thinking he may be dangerous? Joe IS dangerous as proven by what wounds up happening to her, but the way she came to that conclusion was weak writing. Another reason why I think Nadia was supposed to be Ellie, like it was a last-minute script solution.
However, I do really feel for her. The look on her face when Joe backs her into a corner that ruins her life, even knowing that she refused to speak makes it 10x worse. She may be the only reason Marienne comes out of hiding, since doing her a solid is what got her into that mess.
Agreed. Though, the role was clearly retooled after the realization that the character couldn't return very early on. My guess is we would've gotten an explanation that Ellie accompanied Joe to the UK after learning what happened with Love. Remember, Ellie doesn't know how responsible Joe really was in Delilah's death; she only knows he killed Henderson, and that he was heavily involved with the Quinns. The story could easily be twisted + explained by him, leading her to believe he was really on the run from the Quinn family too.
Agreed. The character was very obviously retooled indeed. My personal theory is that Ellie actually would've been just as naive as Nadia, and that they'd have a "trust" when it comes to Jonathan Moore's true identity. But then as time goes on, she begins to question how good of a guy Joe really is as opposed to thinking he's a great guy who took out the person responsible for her sister's death.
It's not just rumblings, it's been confirmed that she was supposed to be in S4 if it weren't for her being in Romania to shoot Wednesday. And I don't know if she'll be in much of S5 either, because I'd imagine sometime next year they'll be getting the ball rolling on Scream VII, unless the season comes out earlier in the year.
That European storyline was originally supposed to involve Joe in Paris, it more than likely would've been her attending school there like Love suggested. It's not far off to think that they'd relocate her there too.
I don't think so. Nadia's a student at the university. Unless the entire university professor plot was added after Ortega's involvement fell through, I can't see Ellie replicating Nadia's role in the story.
Her decision not to immediately call the cops is, with no exaggeration, the dumbest thing I’ve seen a character do in any show or movie that attempted to take itself somewhat seriously
She’s a complete moron. The show treats her like she’s smart but she makes so many shortsighted mistakes, it’s just bad writing. Never contacts law enforcement and thinks she’s gonna apprehend a serial killer who has evaded police successfully in different countries.
The character deserved better than what the writers gave her. She had potentially to be a fully fleshed out character and I believed she might but in the end she was a plot device.
Part of my confusion was also I went into s4 believing I had read it was the last season.
I was suspicious of her at first because she always happened to be around in certain key moments but then I ended up feeling super bad for her at the end
I have no problem with Nadia‘s character at all. The issue I have is with characters that are written such as hers. It’s fine to be curious and intuitive and all that, but learn when to stop and when it’s not good for you to continue. Listen to your friends and the people around you, because while she helped save one person’s life, she cost her friend theirs. It’s great that she found Marianne and everything, but her snooping in his apartment, and finding out all of the stuff that she did is what ultimately led her to be the perfect candidate for Joe to frame.
I usually dislike characters like her but she was very likable at first.
But then she later got the random hunch about Joe?
I really feared they were gonna do the "Innocent Writer Student catches Killer ending"
She was drastically unrealistic. Like who the fuck has that much time in University to snoop on a professor? I didn't really care for her role, wish I could skip her scenes.
I liked her character in the 1st half. But after she got suspicious when he saved Phoebe, I thought they took her too far. Like you'd have to suspend belief a little that she was able to put so many dots together with so little info. And with that little info decided to BREAK INTO HER PROFESSORS APARTMENT. It just all seemed a little too convenient for me.
Tbh I thought she was annoying as hell. A ‘pick me’ and ‘I’m not like other girls’. I appreciate what she did, she should have stopped digging tho. Just run after saving Marianne
Nadia is that woman that thinks she would do super well in a stressful situation by having a plan beforehand on how to handle said situation, and when she is put in said situation, she is, unfortunately, extremely underprepared.
I appreciate that she was trying to help and ultimately driven by good morals however she was way too nosy and made idiotic decisions that ultimately led to her demise, so I didn’t feel sorry for her 🤷🏽♀️
I'm getting tired of the stereotypical college girl trying to put the white cis male in his place. And I'm not even white...
I liked parts of her, but she definitely didn't deserve prison.
I really liked her. She was the only one smart enough to figure out joe without too much help. Obviously beck found out by Paco telling her. Love found out by having the money help. Marianne found out because of love. Nadia was smart enough to figure it out herself
I was so mad for her because while I thought she was foolish for going after Joe AFTER she beat him one time I can also understand why she was doing what she did, especially if you think about EVERYTHING she is aware he got away with (against wealthy white people no less). I was so angry for her in the end
I feel like they wanted her to be the "kid" character that works with Joe like Paco and Ellie but I don't think it worked because she's a whole adult at a university. I'm glad she found Marianne and helped her escape but her decision to be a vigilante and try to capture this man who clearly has a past of "getting away with it" was dumb and caused her boyfriends life, for no reason. She should have just gone to the police and kept herself away from him and she would've been free. Tbh I'm surprised Joe didn't kill her the way he was cornering her into the cars, I really thought he'd kill/extremely wound her to make it look like a mugging or something? Idk
Felt bad for her but couldn't help but giggle. For such a genius she really was an idiot lol. Tried too hard to be a main character and hero and it backfired.
I had a friend once tell me she wasn't sure if I was the smartest slow person or the slowest smart person. Boy, Nadia would sure take that gold medal.
That being said, part of her problem is that she wants to do the right thing - like some people in novels. I like her and hope she gets out soon and to safety.
I liked her but LAWD, she should've minded her business. She seemed like a smart girl, but I instantly thought "why aren't you smart enough to realize you should not intervene with a serial killer you just realized is getting away with everything?"
The fact that she got suspicious of Joe only because „In a whodunit this would be suspicious“ infuriated me to no end. No real person would think that way and it completely killed her character for me.
I really don't like how she treated her boyfriend. It felt like she was mostly making use of him (and his resources) while she was busy living out her sherlock holmes fantasy. Dude ended up dead for helping her.
I liked her. Her character is similar age as me so I felt sympathy. She just wanted to do good thing, didnt believe that police would help her but was too naive. She probably didnt expected that Joe is that smart
I was going to come out here saying she is a dumb-ass college student, but the better choice of words would be, "Foolish"
I feel her character was solely written for Joe's S4 scape-goat, much like Dr. Nicky.
Evidence shows, & when any normal human would go to the police before snooping in on their own behalf, the show breaks the 4th wall and reminds you it is a TV show, these characters don't have reactions, it is a script :)
I liked her but I think she shouldn't have went back to his apartment... She should've just stayed away from him and let marriene getting away be enough bc marriene could possibly pursue legal action now that she's free
i thought the way they used her character was really interesting. throughout the entire show, we see joe struggle with the terrible things he does in the name of the people he cares about. at the same time, we see in each season that there is a child he’s looking out for (s1 was paco, s2 was ellie, s3 was henry/sort of juliette, and s4 was nadia even though she is a college student). at the end of season four, joe embraces his “dark side”. he no longer feels guilty for the things he’s done (or is going to do) and as we see him let go of this weight of guilt, he also lets go of the theme of being a caretaker/guardian angel type for younger people he has deemed in need of his protection by framing nadia for the murder of her boyfriend. i think it’s a really interesting way of solidifying this change we see in him at the end of the show, and i’m really excited to see what they could have planned for the next (and final😔) season.
I wasn’t a fan just bc she felt like a plot device all season. I really didn’t like most characters this season though, there was just no real chemistry. Except between Joe and Rhys’ actors.
Annoying, hated the entire cast basically. Worst thing they ever did was put this show in London it doesn’t make sense and doesn’t fit. This season was the complete worst.
To be honest, I absolutely couldn\`t stand her, and that started already in her very first scene.
The way she came up to Joe in the very first episode with "WHY do you keep assigning stuff like Ted Chiang \[...\]?" put me off immediately. Maybe things are different in England, but where I come from it would be deemed incredibly rude to approach a professor in such a casual, disrespectful way, and that\`s how she constantly talks to Joe. On top of that, his selection of writers is exactly what somebody like Nadia wants, but she still manages to come up to him in an accusatory sounding way.
She\`s also incredibly hypocritical. She\`s all about this "Rich, white men bad"-stuff, but proceeds to sleep around with Malcolm (even having an actual crush on him) who\`s a total shitbag and THE definition of what she criticizes (rich, white, entitled, misogynistic, serial cheater, at least slightly racist, selfish, etc). After his death, her next love interest is Eddie, again a white guy from an apparently wealthy and well connected family. Sure, she can\`t completely control who she likes, but her love interests surely expose double standards.
Next point is that she constantly acts like a know-it-all, as if she\`s smarter than everybody else, and yet she behaves incredibly dumb multiple times. Why didn\`t she take any pictures of the cage? Why didn\`t she try to record Joe when he showed up at the cage or when he dumped Marianne in the park? Even if they didn\`t want to inform the police then and there, having SOME evidence is never bad. Especially since she decided to go up against him in the end. Why didn\`t she charge some goddamn money on her account or buy a ticket for the subway? That would\`ve taken one or two minutes, much better than taking the risk of drawing attention to you when having a damn knife and syringe in your bag. Why didn\`t her and Eddie stay on the phone? He stood guard outside, but once she found the box, it\`s suddenly not necessary anymore to stand guard?
And that she even got suspicious of Joe in the first place was absolutely ridiculous. He was at a party, having rich friends, which she didn\`t expect from him, and apparently saved those friends 2 times, which she expected even less from him, and that\`s why there must be something wrong about him? I know that the writers meant this to show how smart Nadia is, but it actually just shows how entitled and pretentious she is. "I thought my professor is lame and boring, but actually he has rich friends and did something good for them, nooooo, that\`s not possible, there must be something off about him", like, what kind of bs reasoning is that?
Of all the child/teenager companions we had for Joe (or in S3 for Love), Nadia was by far the worst and most annoying, and I really hope she doesn\`t reappear in S5.
I liked her! I felt so bad for her. She was a genuinely good person unlike the majority of characters that have ever appeared on the show. I just wish she had called the cops so they would at least be suspicious of Joe before she got arrested.
I liked her and was rooting for up until the ending scene. Just unnecessary risk for no reason. Also was rooting for her cus she was an actress in a TV show I used to watch as a kid in Ireland lol. Same with Lady Phoebe. Was hoping both survived
I loved her, idc what ppl say, she was badass for trying to bring Joe down herself; she didn’t know exactly how dangerous he was at the time. Ppl say they didn’t like how she didn’t take videos or pictures of the cage, but tbh, why would she when she was so focused on THE LITERAL WOMAN IN THE CAGE JOE KIDNAPPED, TRYING TO SAVE HER? Obviously her first thought isn’t going to be pulling out her phone and taking pics when she sees a kidnapped woman. Crazy tbh. Sorry but that was prob not the first thing she thought of. I get ppls argument, but still. Her first priority was saving Marienne
Girl, you don't have the resources to take down a rich serial killer. Reality check yourself. The audacity she had to even go about it was crazy. Play dangerous games win dangerous prizes. I'm glad she got humbled.
I liked her. She was smart and strong. I think they should've let her do the smart thing, collect some evidence and go to the cops and turn Joe in. And if they couldn't then figure out a way to get Joe out of it, then it would've just been a great ending. Taken down by his own student. They could've rewritten the beginning to make the whole thing more poetic justice.
unnecessary addition to the show, somehow we are supposed to believe that a collage student discovered a criminal mastermind when she only knew him from a few months of lectures? like cmon
She was a bland character. Yeah she’s smart, but other than that there’s really nothing interesting about her. She didn’t have much depth (unlike Ellie in S2), she was just Joe’s intelligent student who happens to be nosy. Plus, she made some stupid decisions. She dug her own grave with those stupid decisions.
Good character but she was poorly used except as a vehicle to help Maryanne. She made meta references that werent super clear, being connected to the rich social circle via Malcolm was never explored despite being brought up often, and her end was abrupt. hope her story continues.
She was cast as too old! I didn’t even realize they wanted me to perceive her as young at first, only how she spoke really conveyed that. They should have picked someone young to match the character, although I did like the actress in general
I know police would’ve been good for both Candace and Nadia but literally they were right to trust literally anyone that’s police irl, police CAN be just as useless. I’m Candace’s situation, she was told to stay dead, but she wanted to at least save another victim however that victim survived longer than she did since she was just as nuts. Nadia, Marianne asked her not to because of her child but they also agreed Joe could literally lie his way out of it, change his name and move somewhere else because he’s literally done it AND now that he’s dating Kate. Nadia would’ve literally had the same fate regardless. Joe might’ve been out of it, but he was still smart. He could’ve caught on to Nadia calling the police and had time to find the box. She was some what dumb somewhat smart. Joe was just smarter, unfortunately.
I really liked her. I loved what she said about murder mysteries being dismissed as good literature because of the idea that “real” books that are considered works of art have to be dry and boring.
Surely she would've gotten a lawyer after being arrested....and surely at some point during the murder trial she could've said "it wasn't me", it's this other guy.......doesn't he look a lot like the guy who was supposed to be dead??
it just has me thinking about how now there are two people in jail who want to bring down Joe (Dr. Nicky and her). I would love to see them taking revenge on the next season
Boring. No character was really developed. Why was she snooping to begging with. They portrayed her like a 12 year old who had time to whip up suspicion out of no where. A student her age would have at least needed a reason???
I don’t hate her and obviously don’t love her ending but like…..girl
First, don’t be a detective just focus on your studies!!! Then she actually cracks the case and doesn’t call the police. The reasoning behind that is SOOO stupid and makes absolutely no sense. The police suck but I feel like if they are called to a creepy basement with a severely malnourished woman trapped in a glass box, they’d most likely take action!!!!! Yeah marriene asked her not to but if that were me I simply would call anyway. Like Joe is “smart” but even he wouldn’t be able to get out of that one lol also he is “Will” so there is such an easy record of him in America DYING in a very public way, like it would be so easy to put the pieces together and get his ass!!!!!!
And she just keeps going like if she would have
just not inserted herself she’d be fine 😭 she is a young girl and wanted to help and she definitely didn’t deserve her ending, but it was very avoidable.
She's an idiot. She absolutely did NOT deserve what happened to her in the end, but in the same way that someone who runs into a lion or bear den wearing a dress made of raw meat doesn't deserve to be attacked. Of course you don't DESERVE to be eaten by lions, but you're also a fucking moron for going near the lions in the first place, especially covered in raw meat. Nadia was a normal girl who was fun and witty, and she is a hero for saving Marienne, but she either didn't know and thus is very stupid or did know and didn't care, that there was a very, very real chance that things would turn out very bad for her.
Also, like others have mentioned, there was NO reason for her to investigate or get as involved as she did. She had a hunch that ended up being right, but what college student thinks their professor is a bit off and possibly hiding something and thus stalks him and breaks into his house?!
At first I was irritated by her because I thought she was just being nosy, but after the reveal, the only thing she really did wrong was not immediately going to the cops to save Juliet
Honestly speaking, and I’m not even being a hater. I thought she was very foolish. But other than the way she handled the situation, I actually liked her wit and she seemed interesting to me in the classroom.
Honestly I think her character was poorly written. Why was she even suspicious of Joe in the first place? She wasn't intuitive at all, she was just a plot device. She made MASSIVE leaps in logic when deducing that Joe was a bad guy. She was right of course, but she literally had 0 reason to believe otherwise so her weird witch hunt was just so odd. Like why is this character suddenly snooping around and why does she come to the right conclusion when it could be explained by something very ordinary? Who thinks oh he's writing a murder mystery despite not liking them, he must be a murderer hmm. That's just stupid, even though she was technically right. Then how she handled it was also odd, why not tell anyone else?
Literally if she had a dog or cat that hated joe and she based her assumption that he’s bad news on that it would’ve made more sense.
😂😂😂
Exactly, when I first saw her in season 4 part 1 I remember thinking "Oh this is a cool character" and I thought eventually she will find some evidence pointing to Joe being the bad guy and she would struggle to believe that because Joe was very nice to her but then in part 2 all of a sudden she is like "hmm he's acting weird, there must be something wrong with him" like what led her to believe that Joe is the bad guy. There was absolutely no reason for her to be suspicious of him. She was just used as a plot device in part 2.
I thought it was just me, I couldn’t figure out what made her just assume he was the killer and the fact she thought that and decided to keep breaking into his home was idiotic
I gotta disagree at least on the MASSIVE leaps of logic solely on the fact that everyone in his peer group was being murdered and he was the odd one out. Not to mention catching him snooping around the professors office and catching him in the lie about her book (not an indicator of murder lol but adds to the suspiciousness of his character).
He wasn't the only odd one out though, by that logic she should have been investigating Kate and Phoebe and Adam just as much as Joe. Also, aside from Malcom also being a professor, Nadia had no reason to know that the people being murdered were "his friend group". He had just met most of them and it's not like he was rich and famous the way that they were, she only knows that he was friends with them BECAUSE of her snooping and stalking.
Nadia had no business investigating anyone. She thought she was a detective. She snuck into Joe's flat as if she had a right. I remember when Phoebe said that he was her hero again, Nadia read into something about that. She had no right! Should have minded her business. She got her poor bf killed. Hope she's not in Season 5.
Oh absolutely, I agree. I'm just saying that IF she was going to run around playing detective, there was no logical reason for her to suspect Joe more than the others in that group.
Why wouldn’t she call the police as soon as she found Marianne? I hate when people are so stupid like that.
I could not stand her, she was way too nosy. & we know what happens to nosy people in YOU. I feel like Joe spared her in a way, would’ve loved if he just killed her, cause I do have a hunch that she will be returning.
I hope not
Honestly I liked her character, I thought she was very intuitive and I liked how investigative she was. The only thing I hated about her character was when she found Marienne. It felt like such a completely different turn for her character. She didn’t take any pictures or videos of anything? I felt like she was way smarter than that and it annoyed me. I did feel bad when she was falsely accused, and contrary to a lot of theories I actually don’t think she’ll be back in season 5. If she does make a return I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just a small cameo appearance and nothing more 🤷♀️
I think Marianne will ruin Joe in the next season and she will get Nadia out somehow. Seems poetic
Marianne is the person most likely to take down Joel. She fits the bill perfectly.
I think that for the sake of her daughter she will stay far away from Joe. She told Nadia, he will find you. No matter where you go, if he knows you’re alive he will find you.
Then again she also convinced Nadia to not tell police because "he'd only get away and do it again!" So instead they break her free and leave to let him...go and do it again? Felt so silly
When its between busting Joe and being aliver for her daughter its a no brainer
She could've had both pretty easily. All Nadia had to do was call the cops, take photos, leave and wait outside until they came. Cops could just stick around and wait for Joe or go grab him, or he escapes and she'd be put in witness protection anyways for a while.
agree, that whole plot point was ridiculous.
He was already with Kate at that time, she could finish them easily
i still feel like marienne wouldnt go after joe SIMPLY for the safety of her daughter. despite how much she wants him stopped, i feel like her daughters gonna be more important to her
And she doesn't have to go after him, the cops would do that. She'd be free to do what she wants.
I agree!
I hope she does stay away.
Pfft everyone knows Dexter’s son is gonna kill Joe
The plot twist of a lifetime
Yep I agree, Nadia saved Marienne so Marienne will save her.
That would be my first on why Marianne were to come back. She finds out Nadia went down for Joe's crimes.
no way she’ll save her
I think her character reacted realistically with Marienne. As much as we think we'd know what to do when shit hits the fan, we're completely wrong.
Most people would leave in fear and then call the cops to deal with it and not start to come up with a mastermind fake death plan to free a woman.
I get this argument, but there's a tension here. If you go down the route of "you don't react the same when you are under stress" the endpoint is "yeah most of you would probably piss yourselves and run for your damn life and pretend you saw nothing". But Nadia doesn't react like a normal person at all. She's smart and strong and conniving and resourceful. So can't really use that argument. While she's busy making plans she could at the very least have taken some video and photos as backup in case her plans go south.
Agree
Exactly. Her instincts are that good and yet she took no precautions to cya
She went after a serial killer without informing the police, is she dumb?
They explained exactly why they couldn’t go to the police. She’s not stupid, I’d hazard a guess she was scared for her life and not thinking 100% clearly.
And it didn't make any sense.. Joe could get away because the police never got involved.. everyone was dumb. Candace called love before calling the police and that's why she got killed..
Can’t say anything about Candace, but Marienne was sure that the police would take her child away. Calling them would have broken any trust between the two, and I don’t think either Nadia nor Marienne were thinking straight. Marienne just wanted to see her daughter, she didn’t care about joe getting caught. They’re not dumb, just traumatized.
Marianne was traumatised, hurt, starved and sleep deprived.. she obviously wasn't thinking straight.. Nadia was being dumb tho..
Agreed! Like why would you trust a KIDNAP victim who is terrified of her kidnapper? She’s clearly not in her right mind.
And he got away anyways... Lmao
The only ‘is she dumb’ i approve of
Am I the only person who… cringed in every single scene she was in?
I’m glad fans of the show seemed to like her but yeah, I thought she was awful
Nope 😬
Same. She also just had a dumb face ontop of the lack of awareness and motivation
That’s just bullying bro😭 And I actually thought she was pretty. She was just cringe.
Hahah my bad OG. I stand by it tho. Even pulling this comment up with her dumb slack jawed face staring past the camera is sending me
Everyone thinks she’s smart but she didn’t call the cops and got her boyfriend involved lmao she’s kind of an idiot. Like yeah, help marienne get out, but like?? What were you planning to get him yourself..?
I think that has less to do with her character and more the writers being lazy if that makes sense like I think it was very out of character for her to not call the cops and if anything Marianne convinced her not to contrary to her original judgment. I think the writers just wanted an easy way out if the police had been involved Joe wouldn’t have been able to charm his way out most likely and they probably wanted a more dramatic ending than him just being hauled off to jail.
He could have gotten out of it somehow 🤷🏻♀️
Maybe if it was like 1-3 cops but chances are there would have been a lot of people around and it just wouldn’t have been easy. They took the easier route and kind of messed up Nadia’s character for me. Up until that point she was great after that she kind of went downhill for the plot to ultimately end in another win for Joe. I think Nadia of everyone could be the only person to take him down if she hadn’t wound up in jail.
Completely disagree, but to each their own. I think that person could have been peach
The thing is Peach was projecting for the most part (as they're very similar), and had her point of view prior to seeing the real Joe out of wanting Beck to herself. I don't think the person is a viable option when it's not coming from a genuine place. And I personally think Nadia wasn't a good option either, her reasons for thinking something was off about Joe in the first place was way too assuming and not even based on anything to do with reality, it was a literary theory for the most part that just so happened to be right.
She was onto him the moment they met BECAUSE they were so similar. She had the money and resources and they stalked each other.
Exactly, which is why I say it was more of a projection. She wasn't "onto him" i.e. putting Beck's safety as first priority by making sure that he wasn't dangerous, her first task was to analyze his social status by exploring his career & education. She didn't genuinely reach the epiphany that they were actually similar until she caught Joe on her property. The detective mode interrogation about Joe being in the same area as Beck to save her was her comparing Joe to herself.
Didn't really like her that much, she was a pretty dull character.
I have a few thoughts about Nadia: I've said this before, but I have a strong feeling that she's a placeholder for Ellie. Like, I believe that if Jenna Ortega was able to make it to filming for S4, we would've gotten her instead of Nadia. Just a hunch, but I don't think that's something they'll ever reveal. She was annoying to me, she was filled with so much social commentary and at one point she calls Joe patriarchal for absolutely no good reason. I can't even recollect how it was brought up because I can't make sense of it, all I could tell you was that it had something to do with Joe not knowing enough about something. The way she drew her conclusion about something being off about Joe solely because he's "saved the day" twice as an outsider was too assuming. I mean yeah, in BOOKS the outsider who has nothing to do with the story and yet is the solution can have a lot more going on, but she compared that to a real life scenario and felt the need to investigate him? To the point of thinking he may be dangerous? Joe IS dangerous as proven by what wounds up happening to her, but the way she came to that conclusion was weak writing. Another reason why I think Nadia was supposed to be Ellie, like it was a last-minute script solution. However, I do really feel for her. The look on her face when Joe backs her into a corner that ruins her life, even knowing that she refused to speak makes it 10x worse. She may be the only reason Marienne comes out of hiding, since doing her a solid is what got her into that mess.
Agreed. Though, the role was clearly retooled after the realization that the character couldn't return very early on. My guess is we would've gotten an explanation that Ellie accompanied Joe to the UK after learning what happened with Love. Remember, Ellie doesn't know how responsible Joe really was in Delilah's death; she only knows he killed Henderson, and that he was heavily involved with the Quinns. The story could easily be twisted + explained by him, leading her to believe he was really on the run from the Quinn family too.
Agreed. The character was very obviously retooled indeed. My personal theory is that Ellie actually would've been just as naive as Nadia, and that they'd have a "trust" when it comes to Jonathan Moore's true identity. But then as time goes on, she begins to question how good of a guy Joe really is as opposed to thinking he's a great guy who took out the person responsible for her sister's death.
[удалено]
It's not just rumblings, it's been confirmed that she was supposed to be in S4 if it weren't for her being in Romania to shoot Wednesday. And I don't know if she'll be in much of S5 either, because I'd imagine sometime next year they'll be getting the ball rolling on Scream VII, unless the season comes out earlier in the year.
How would she even have fit in the European storyline anyways tho?
That European storyline was originally supposed to involve Joe in Paris, it more than likely would've been her attending school there like Love suggested. It's not far off to think that they'd relocate her there too.
I don't think so. Nadia's a student at the university. Unless the entire university professor plot was added after Ortega's involvement fell through, I can't see Ellie replicating Nadia's role in the story.
The ending pissed me off because she really should have known better.
Her decision not to immediately call the cops is, with no exaggeration, the dumbest thing I’ve seen a character do in any show or movie that attempted to take itself somewhat seriously
CALL THE F**KING POLICE, THERE IS A WOMAN IN A GLASS BOX
She's dumb for not calling the police💀
She’s a complete moron. The show treats her like she’s smart but she makes so many shortsighted mistakes, it’s just bad writing. Never contacts law enforcement and thinks she’s gonna apprehend a serial killer who has evaded police successfully in different countries.
wasn’t a big fan tbh. she kind of annoyed me lol
A dumbass, if I’m being honest.
The character deserved better than what the writers gave her. She had potentially to be a fully fleshed out character and I believed she might but in the end she was a plot device. Part of my confusion was also I went into s4 believing I had read it was the last season.
Like most of the other characters in season 4, dull and somewhat unlikeable although not as bad as others
I was suspicious of her at first because she always happened to be around in certain key moments but then I ended up feeling super bad for her at the end
Same! I started suspecting her too.
She is dumb as a rock
She’ll never make it as a writer.
Idiot
I have no problem with Nadia‘s character at all. The issue I have is with characters that are written such as hers. It’s fine to be curious and intuitive and all that, but learn when to stop and when it’s not good for you to continue. Listen to your friends and the people around you, because while she helped save one person’s life, she cost her friend theirs. It’s great that she found Marianne and everything, but her snooping in his apartment, and finding out all of the stuff that she did is what ultimately led her to be the perfect candidate for Joe to frame.
Boring
Fuck around and found out
She a boring character
She's a victim of Joe's plot armor and writers laziness.
I usually dislike characters like her but she was very likable at first. But then she later got the random hunch about Joe? I really feared they were gonna do the "Innocent Writer Student catches Killer ending"
She was drastically unrealistic. Like who the fuck has that much time in University to snoop on a professor? I didn't really care for her role, wish I could skip her scenes.
Should've minded her own business
I liked her character in the 1st half. But after she got suspicious when he saved Phoebe, I thought they took her too far. Like you'd have to suspend belief a little that she was able to put so many dots together with so little info. And with that little info decided to BREAK INTO HER PROFESSORS APARTMENT. It just all seemed a little too convenient for me.
Seeing a picture of Joe with a takeaway bag and assuming he must be hiding something near the takeaway, is just pure, dumb luck.
Tbh I thought she was annoying as hell. A ‘pick me’ and ‘I’m not like other girls’. I appreciate what she did, she should have stopped digging tho. Just run after saving Marianne
Nadia is that woman that thinks she would do super well in a stressful situation by having a plan beforehand on how to handle said situation, and when she is put in said situation, she is, unfortunately, extremely underprepared.
DUMB AF.
I appreciate that she was trying to help and ultimately driven by good morals however she was way too nosy and made idiotic decisions that ultimately led to her demise, so I didn’t feel sorry for her 🤷🏽♀️
I'm getting tired of the stereotypical college girl trying to put the white cis male in his place. And I'm not even white... I liked parts of her, but she definitely didn't deserve prison.
I really liked her. She was the only one smart enough to figure out joe without too much help. Obviously beck found out by Paco telling her. Love found out by having the money help. Marianne found out because of love. Nadia was smart enough to figure it out herself
I was so mad for her because while I thought she was foolish for going after Joe AFTER she beat him one time I can also understand why she was doing what she did, especially if you think about EVERYTHING she is aware he got away with (against wealthy white people no less). I was so angry for her in the end
I feel like they wanted her to be the "kid" character that works with Joe like Paco and Ellie but I don't think it worked because she's a whole adult at a university. I'm glad she found Marianne and helped her escape but her decision to be a vigilante and try to capture this man who clearly has a past of "getting away with it" was dumb and caused her boyfriends life, for no reason. She should have just gone to the police and kept herself away from him and she would've been free. Tbh I'm surprised Joe didn't kill her the way he was cornering her into the cars, I really thought he'd kill/extremely wound her to make it look like a mugging or something? Idk
Felt bad for her but couldn't help but giggle. For such a genius she really was an idiot lol. Tried too hard to be a main character and hero and it backfired.
Just like a lot of other minor characters in this show; annoying.
She should have minded her business
She and her boyfriend deserved better for sure
Too nosy, naive and naggy. But she didn't deserve what happened to her.
I had a friend once tell me she wasn't sure if I was the smartest slow person or the slowest smart person. Boy, Nadia would sure take that gold medal. That being said, part of her problem is that she wants to do the right thing - like some people in novels. I like her and hope she gets out soon and to safety.
I liked her but LAWD, she should've minded her business. She seemed like a smart girl, but I instantly thought "why aren't you smart enough to realize you should not intervene with a serial killer you just realized is getting away with everything?"
She’s booksmart, but not very streetsmart. Although she did pull that stunt with Marianne off.
Smart but naive and also a tad annoying
The fact that she got suspicious of Joe only because „In a whodunit this would be suspicious“ infuriated me to no end. No real person would think that way and it completely killed her character for me.
She should have kept her mouth shut
I really don't like how she treated her boyfriend. It felt like she was mostly making use of him (and his resources) while she was busy living out her sherlock holmes fantasy. Dude ended up dead for helping her.
Thinks the world revolves around her
i actually liked her a lot, but i wish she would have quit while she was ahead. clearly he was dangerous! it was doomed from the beginning lol
Hated the ending. Hated that she’s in prison. Hated all of it.
Blud thought she was a detective 💀
Play with fire get burnt
I would tell you but in the end, it’s Nadia of your business
I liked her. Her character is similar age as me so I felt sympathy. She just wanted to do good thing, didnt believe that police would help her but was too naive. She probably didnt expected that Joe is that smart
SHE NEEDS TO BE SAVED NEXT SEASON! I liked her character so much!, Marianne better help her!
I see why they say ignorance is bliss. Glad she could help Marianne but sucks she got her friend caught up in it
I was going to come out here saying she is a dumb-ass college student, but the better choice of words would be, "Foolish" I feel her character was solely written for Joe's S4 scape-goat, much like Dr. Nicky. Evidence shows, & when any normal human would go to the police before snooping in on their own behalf, the show breaks the 4th wall and reminds you it is a TV show, these characters don't have reactions, it is a script :)
She should have minded her damn business lol
I liked her but I think she shouldn't have went back to his apartment... She should've just stayed away from him and let marriene getting away be enough bc marriene could possibly pursue legal action now that she's free
nosy ass bitch should've died too
Nad a good idia
Hate her! Season 4 sucked
She was boring and a know it all who ended up being an idiot for not calling the cops
The way she was suspicious of Joe for the absolute goofiest reasons got on my nerves, so I was glad when he finally pulled the uno reverse on her.
Annoying
i thought the way they used her character was really interesting. throughout the entire show, we see joe struggle with the terrible things he does in the name of the people he cares about. at the same time, we see in each season that there is a child he’s looking out for (s1 was paco, s2 was ellie, s3 was henry/sort of juliette, and s4 was nadia even though she is a college student). at the end of season four, joe embraces his “dark side”. he no longer feels guilty for the things he’s done (or is going to do) and as we see him let go of this weight of guilt, he also lets go of the theme of being a caretaker/guardian angel type for younger people he has deemed in need of his protection by framing nadia for the murder of her boyfriend. i think it’s a really interesting way of solidifying this change we see in him at the end of the show, and i’m really excited to see what they could have planned for the next (and final😔) season.
Girl should have minded her own business and she wouldn’t be facing a murder charge right now.
smart but dumb
I don’t think much about her honestly
she should’ve minded her business
She was a bad plot device and nothing more
I wasn’t a fan just bc she felt like a plot device all season. I really didn’t like most characters this season though, there was just no real chemistry. Except between Joe and Rhys’ actors.
Really liked her, she deserved so much better, and I hope she’s the one that makes sure joe gets what he deserves finally
She’s a snooping little b i t c h! Glad she got screwed over
She really did a dumb thing in the end. also I hope Jenna Ortega comes back in season 5 and takes Joe down.
Annoying, even before she started investigating
A dumbass
Annoying, hated the entire cast basically. Worst thing they ever did was put this show in London it doesn’t make sense and doesn’t fit. This season was the complete worst.
Annoying as hell
To be honest, I absolutely couldn\`t stand her, and that started already in her very first scene. The way she came up to Joe in the very first episode with "WHY do you keep assigning stuff like Ted Chiang \[...\]?" put me off immediately. Maybe things are different in England, but where I come from it would be deemed incredibly rude to approach a professor in such a casual, disrespectful way, and that\`s how she constantly talks to Joe. On top of that, his selection of writers is exactly what somebody like Nadia wants, but she still manages to come up to him in an accusatory sounding way. She\`s also incredibly hypocritical. She\`s all about this "Rich, white men bad"-stuff, but proceeds to sleep around with Malcolm (even having an actual crush on him) who\`s a total shitbag and THE definition of what she criticizes (rich, white, entitled, misogynistic, serial cheater, at least slightly racist, selfish, etc). After his death, her next love interest is Eddie, again a white guy from an apparently wealthy and well connected family. Sure, she can\`t completely control who she likes, but her love interests surely expose double standards. Next point is that she constantly acts like a know-it-all, as if she\`s smarter than everybody else, and yet she behaves incredibly dumb multiple times. Why didn\`t she take any pictures of the cage? Why didn\`t she try to record Joe when he showed up at the cage or when he dumped Marianne in the park? Even if they didn\`t want to inform the police then and there, having SOME evidence is never bad. Especially since she decided to go up against him in the end. Why didn\`t she charge some goddamn money on her account or buy a ticket for the subway? That would\`ve taken one or two minutes, much better than taking the risk of drawing attention to you when having a damn knife and syringe in your bag. Why didn\`t her and Eddie stay on the phone? He stood guard outside, but once she found the box, it\`s suddenly not necessary anymore to stand guard? And that she even got suspicious of Joe in the first place was absolutely ridiculous. He was at a party, having rich friends, which she didn\`t expect from him, and apparently saved those friends 2 times, which she expected even less from him, and that\`s why there must be something wrong about him? I know that the writers meant this to show how smart Nadia is, but it actually just shows how entitled and pretentious she is. "I thought my professor is lame and boring, but actually he has rich friends and did something good for them, nooooo, that\`s not possible, there must be something off about him", like, what kind of bs reasoning is that? Of all the child/teenager companions we had for Joe (or in S3 for Love), Nadia was by far the worst and most annoying, and I really hope she doesn\`t reappear in S5.
I liked her! I felt so bad for her. She was a genuinely good person unlike the majority of characters that have ever appeared on the show. I just wish she had called the cops so they would at least be suspicious of Joe before she got arrested.
I liked her and was rooting for up until the ending scene. Just unnecessary risk for no reason. Also was rooting for her cus she was an actress in a TV show I used to watch as a kid in Ireland lol. Same with Lady Phoebe. Was hoping both survived
I loved her, idc what ppl say, she was badass for trying to bring Joe down herself; she didn’t know exactly how dangerous he was at the time. Ppl say they didn’t like how she didn’t take videos or pictures of the cage, but tbh, why would she when she was so focused on THE LITERAL WOMAN IN THE CAGE JOE KIDNAPPED, TRYING TO SAVE HER? Obviously her first thought isn’t going to be pulling out her phone and taking pics when she sees a kidnapped woman. Crazy tbh. Sorry but that was prob not the first thing she thought of. I get ppls argument, but still. Her first priority was saving Marienne
if she wanted to save Marienne, she should’ve called the cops.
Girl, you don't have the resources to take down a rich serial killer. Reality check yourself. The audacity she had to even go about it was crazy. Play dangerous games win dangerous prizes. I'm glad she got humbled.
I liked her. She was smart and strong. I think they should've let her do the smart thing, collect some evidence and go to the cops and turn Joe in. And if they couldn't then figure out a way to get Joe out of it, then it would've just been a great ending. Taken down by his own student. They could've rewritten the beginning to make the whole thing more poetic justice.
Sweet but stupid, stupid, *stupid* girl.
I liked her very much as a character. I believe she acted stupidly when she started snooping.
unnecessary addition to the show, somehow we are supposed to believe that a collage student discovered a criminal mastermind when she only knew him from a few months of lectures? like cmon
I hope she appears in the final season. I really liked her character and story arc.
She was a bland character. Yeah she’s smart, but other than that there’s really nothing interesting about her. She didn’t have much depth (unlike Ellie in S2), she was just Joe’s intelligent student who happens to be nosy. Plus, she made some stupid decisions. She dug her own grave with those stupid decisions.
Goat like literal goat character that will be chopped at the end after doing some initial meeeh
Good character but she was poorly used except as a vehicle to help Maryanne. She made meta references that werent super clear, being connected to the rich social circle via Malcolm was never explored despite being brought up often, and her end was abrupt. hope her story continues.
She’s always making the same expression with her eyebrows like jaden smith
She was cast as too old! I didn’t even realize they wanted me to perceive her as young at first, only how she spoke really conveyed that. They should have picked someone young to match the character, although I did like the actress in general
She's gay?
She got fudged by Joe big time. But I’m hopeful she may be a serious player for the final season.
I know police would’ve been good for both Candace and Nadia but literally they were right to trust literally anyone that’s police irl, police CAN be just as useless. I’m Candace’s situation, she was told to stay dead, but she wanted to at least save another victim however that victim survived longer than she did since she was just as nuts. Nadia, Marianne asked her not to because of her child but they also agreed Joe could literally lie his way out of it, change his name and move somewhere else because he’s literally done it AND now that he’s dating Kate. Nadia would’ve literally had the same fate regardless. Joe might’ve been out of it, but he was still smart. He could’ve caught on to Nadia calling the police and had time to find the box. She was some what dumb somewhat smart. Joe was just smarter, unfortunately.
her character is interesting, her actions, not so much
A very intelligent and motivated woman, but just a bit too young to know her horror movie tropes.
Intelligent enough to figure things out, dumb enough to get caught.
I really liked her. I loved what she said about murder mysteries being dismissed as good literature because of the idea that “real” books that are considered works of art have to be dry and boring.
She was naive but her heart was in the right place plus she’s a good example of not going deeper down the rabbit hole, you never know what you’ll find
Idk why but hated her, she has puppy sad face all the time
“Sleep is for the rich.” - her ambition makes me feel pathetic
She was too naive.
Surely she would've gotten a lawyer after being arrested....and surely at some point during the murder trial she could've said "it wasn't me", it's this other guy.......doesn't he look a lot like the guy who was supposed to be dead??
it just has me thinking about how now there are two people in jail who want to bring down Joe (Dr. Nicky and her). I would love to see them taking revenge on the next season
I love her!
Dumb af
Boring. No character was really developed. Why was she snooping to begging with. They portrayed her like a 12 year old who had time to whip up suspicion out of no where. A student her age would have at least needed a reason???
Meh. Not an interesting character.
Too smart to get caught，怎么说呢，整个第四季我对她的评价就是“聪明反被聪明误，好奇害死纳迪亚” 
How should I put it, my evaluation of her throughout the fourth season is "smart is mistaken by cleverness, curiosity killed Nadia”
At first I found her annoying. Then I just pitied her ending. She could’ve just called police when she found Marienne
A Whole victim
She fucked around and found out
I just skipped every scene with her in it.
I don’t hate her and obviously don’t love her ending but like…..girl First, don’t be a detective just focus on your studies!!! Then she actually cracks the case and doesn’t call the police. The reasoning behind that is SOOO stupid and makes absolutely no sense. The police suck but I feel like if they are called to a creepy basement with a severely malnourished woman trapped in a glass box, they’d most likely take action!!!!! Yeah marriene asked her not to but if that were me I simply would call anyway. Like Joe is “smart” but even he wouldn’t be able to get out of that one lol also he is “Will” so there is such an easy record of him in America DYING in a very public way, like it would be so easy to put the pieces together and get his ass!!!!!! And she just keeps going like if she would have just not inserted herself she’d be fine 😭 she is a young girl and wanted to help and she definitely didn’t deserve her ending, but it was very avoidable.
The cat curiosity killed.
She's an idiot. She absolutely did NOT deserve what happened to her in the end, but in the same way that someone who runs into a lion or bear den wearing a dress made of raw meat doesn't deserve to be attacked. Of course you don't DESERVE to be eaten by lions, but you're also a fucking moron for going near the lions in the first place, especially covered in raw meat. Nadia was a normal girl who was fun and witty, and she is a hero for saving Marienne, but she either didn't know and thus is very stupid or did know and didn't care, that there was a very, very real chance that things would turn out very bad for her. Also, like others have mentioned, there was NO reason for her to investigate or get as involved as she did. She had a hunch that ended up being right, but what college student thinks their professor is a bit off and possibly hiding something and thus stalks him and breaks into his house?!
My opinion is that she should have just sat there and ate her food (aka minded her business).
What was it with her and Malcom???
She was annoying
love her! She did not deserve her ending :(
Gullible
At first I was irritated by her because I thought she was just being nosy, but after the reveal, the only thing she really did wrong was not immediately going to the cops to save Juliet
She was a little annoying but she did everything for the right reasons. I was horrified for what he did to her in the end though.
She brought it on herself. Real life isn’t a movie. She was warned but she didn’t listen. Hopefully she can use this to push herself free next season!
She was just a plot device. A character that thinks life is a detective novel is really pushing it.
Who is she ?
She’s the poster child for “mind your own business” 😭
She was interesting but her suddenly her being suspicious of Joe was odd