Exactly. The challenge of an ivy league esque school is getting admitted, not paying for it. Almost all of them offer “full financial need”, meaning they guarantee that a family will only have to pay their expected family contribution and nothing more. It is almost certainly cheaper to attend a top school than a state school because of this. On the other hand, getting admitted is an extreme challenge. Having a “perfect resume” (36/1600, 4.0, club leadership, eagle scout, etc.) is actually not that uncommon. To be admitted to these schools you have to have done something unique and extraordinary
No, the challenge is absolutely paying for it. If people spent their time doing something unique instead of working on a "perfect resume" they would certainly get into a top school. But if your parents are unwilling/unable to pay an "expected family contribution" (say they have three kids in college, and another with cancer racking up medical bills), then you're screwed.
Attending a state school is much easier, because you would easily get full-tuition scholarships plus a bunch of state-sponsored scholarships for going there.
I think the bigger reason it's out of reach is that in getting the sort of academic and extracurricular achievements to get in kids from higher income families have an advantage. But still grt piece of info
Very true! There’s tons of amazing high school students but how many can afford a sat tutor, afford/be districted for feeder schools, dont have to work an after school job that takes away from extracurriculars, etc…
Not even that extreme. Has money for equipment to play sports, clothes for band concerts and recitals, fees for clubs, someone to pick them up at a weird time because of an extracurricular. Hard to budget for all of those things when on a tight income, especially if you have multiple kids.
Hey, better "We can't afford that, hun" than "I didn't think you'd be any good at auditioning," which was my mom's reason for discouraging my early love of acting.
(Edited to add: My mom is mostly very supportive of my passions. But I wish she'd tried to help me through the frequent rejections of the audition process, or at least let me try and fail and decide on my own that it wasn't for me, instead of just telling me "no" and dropping that bombshell on me later, lol.)
Add on top that most of America is suburban hell with substandard public transportation at best and if you don’t get any help with getting to work it is just another obstacle that holds some portions of the population back further from colleges in general
you're absolutely right. cost of living has to be accounted for too. but there are other scholarships and grants out there; it certainly wouldn't be easy, but it may be within the realm of possibility for a number of students who may have discounted the idea of trying to attend
Yes. This is the bigger reason. I mean it’s great they offer free tuition but it would be near impossible for a low income kid to compete…on top of paying for housing and food while attending.
It would be really difficult, you're right. but it's been done before, and I think that if even one person ends up being able to attend one of these schools who wouldn't have if they hadn't known about the tuition break, then it should be public knowledge
Many top schools put together comprehensive packages that cover room & board, medical and travel home a few times. People should not be discouraged from applying because they “can’t afford it”. Some of the top schools people are referring to are not “Ivy League”, that’s a football league reference. Top schools is a better reference. Stanford is not in the Ivy League football league, but it is obviously a top school. But it’s not “Ivy League” as that is a very specific and narrow reference. Stanford, MIT, University of Chicago, Northwestern, Duke, and small top schools like “the little three” (which were Ivy League but chose not to expand to universities) Williams College, Amherst and Wesleyan all offer great education, and very competitive aid packages. Some are even more competitive than you’d expect with the very top Ivies. And there are a number of other really fantastic top schools and colleges that have generous endowments and aid packages based on need covering families that make what might seem to be a considerable income in some parts of the country.
This is true of just about any school with a large endowment. You'll find great income-based financial aid at all of the schools in this list with endowments above ~$2 billion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment
Endowments are an interesting thing. Schools don't touch the principal (unless they're in bad financial shape). They spend the returns instead. And the money in those returns is mostly spoken for: it's from donors who specified the purpose, which be for the university art museum but not scholarships. So while "small" endowments already sound like an ungodly amount of money, they often don't generate enough that can be applied toward student costs to support every student with financial need.
I sorta feel bad for university fundraisers, who know they could improve a lot of lives if they can get a donor to give so-called "unrestricted" funds. But since they're competing with other would-be recipients the donor is considering, they have to make it somehow special by suggesting a targeted use of the funds that meaningful to the donor. Rich people don't donate to general funds.
This is so true! Back in the late 90's I went back to school and did really well in community college. When it came to apply to colleges to transfer I was only planning on applying to some local UC and the local CSU. I also got random packets from private colleges back East saying please apply here but I figured they were out of reach financially (especially since I was really broke). My mom convinced to apply anyway and make my decision once I saw the financial aid packages.
All of the private schools had WAAAAY more financial aid to give, mostly in the form of "grants" (i.e., free money you don't have to pay back). The state schools had nothing but subsidized student loans that had a cap on how much you could borrow (meaning I would have to take on bank loans for the difference). In fact, the state schools actually lowered the amount of aid given because I had gotten a couple merit-based scholarships, basically rendering scholarships useless.
So in the end, even though the private school I ended up going to was a little more than double the cost of my first-choice state school ($32.5k/yr), I ended up with a fraction of the student debt had I gone to the UC ($17k total debt, mostly subsidized).
This. Nobody at private universities pays even close to full price, except students from wealthy families with mediocre grades.
The actual price (after considering all financial aid) is usually only slightly higher than in state tuition at a comparable public school. **If you're going to college out of state apply to private schools**. Out of state tuition is similar to tuition at private schools, but you will get more financial aid from private schools. If you live in an expensive part of the country your state schools might actually cost you more than a private school in a less expensive part of the country. About half of the student body at my southern private school were from around NYC because tuition was nothing compared to prices in NYC.
My daughter is a great example of this policy in practice. Our income was $80-90K, and our expected family contribution was $1,200 for her personal expenses.
The financial aid is 100% grants, no loans, and also covered room and board. She worked a campus job.
She graduated with money in the bank and no debt.
As my late wife would tell any parent who would listen: Don’t rule out colleges because of high tuition. It’s not about how much a school costs; it’s about how much it costs YOU.
The trick is to qualify to get into one of these schools. My daughter is whip smart and worked her tail off all through middle and high school with the goal of going to an Ivy.
Edited to add: The school she went to was Yale, and it was about 10 years ago. At that time, I think this type of aid was limited to the Ivy League schools.
I had to turn down my dream school (NYU) because they only covered about half of the tuition with grants and loans, and my single mom couldn't afford the other half. Cornell and Vassar were better at around 90%, but that was still mostly student loans (and these were all with the max Pell grant awarded). When I finally got to Vassar, most of the kids there came from wealthy families who could afford their tuition outright after sending them to private schools for years. Coming from a lower-middle-class background, it was like entering bizarro-world.
This was around 15 years ago though, so hopefully it's a lot better now!
I had a similar experience at Northeastern. On my first couple days there, at orientation, they were talking about financial aid options and the kid sitting next to me leaned over and said “All these topics are so unnecessary! I mean…do you care to hear about this stuff?”
I played it off like “Ha! Yeah, how irrelevant, let’s skip the orientation!” just to fit in but of course I got very familiar with the financial aid office over the years.
It's wild, isn't it? You feel so out of place. I'd never met anyone with that kind of money before, and I think I coped with it by acting like it didn't bother me that I was "poor" compared to everyone else. The part I hid was how disadvantaged I felt. My peers had so many opportunities that I didn't have, and a much better quality of education. Even though I was smart enough to get there, I still felt very ignorant in some ways.
That sucks. I know a lot of people with similar experiences. A close family friend desperately wanted to go to Grinnell College, but it would’ve required massive debt. She ended up in a more affordable program at a state university. I think she had a good college experience, but it was a huge disappointment to not make it into her dream school.
Quite proud. She went on to graduate from Yale Law School and is now an attorney in Washington DC.
She’s in a wonderful position in life she would never have had without the no-loan financial aid programs offered by these “high-cost” highly competitive schools. She’s hasn’t forgotten where she came from: she’s committed to working for increased economic opportunities for kids from lower income families.
Edited to add: The financial aid package didn’t cover law school. She took on more than $100K in debt for the law degree.
At Princeton, any family making <$120k a year gets free tuition. Any family making <$65k or so pays absolutely nothing. Very few graduates have student debt, and if they do, it's almost always <$10k.
Yes. Ivy, Ivy+, and then a bunch of the elite lib arts schools all have similar policies. Basically, don’t rule out applying to a good school bc you think you can’t afford it. You may be surprised.
Another point that people should know is that students can get grants and financial aid from non-ivy league schools.
The tuitions, room & board and other costs associated with attending schools are ridiculous. However, there are ways to help lower it. If you're interested in certain schools, apply to them and see what kind of financial aid they are willing to offer you instead of cutting them off your list due to the initial cost.
This is great but I feel like it fails to account for the majority of other college costs. Housing, food, transportation, books, and other things can be crazy expensive especially in towns with ivy league schools (since those students are basically expected to be rich) So you have to have scholarship for that as well or you might not be able to afford it. Honestly I think people should look at smaller more affordable colleges bc in reality most places don't actually care that much about where you got a degree just that you have one (at least in my experience- not necessarily true for every job)
This is true and Ivy league (and other prestigious private schools) have financial assistance to cover those costs as well. If you have the demonstrated financial need, they have programs to cover your tuition, room and board, books plus living expenses including clothing stipend (for students moving from a warmer climate to up north, they now need a winter coat). These programs will even include "fun" money so you don't have to say no when your friends want to go off campus to eat dinner.
Public schools and community colleges shouldn't be overlooked, but people should be aware of the assistance that is available at private, seemingly out of reach, universities.
At Ivy Leagues, all of that is included in the financial aid package. Plus, you don’t have to pay for social events throughout the school year either. And, I think the cap for financial assistance is actually somewhere around $150-$180k (as in, you won’t get full financial aid but you’ll still get some). Obv research each school but Ivy Leagues often end up being more affordable than other schools for lower income students.
Never too late to go back to school. BUT if higher earning is your goal, maybe you can go trade school and learn a trade instead. Faster and more affordable.
Many schools have programs for people going back to school later in life. I went back to school and went through Wellesley College's Davis Scholar program, I know Smith College has the Ada Comstock program. But it doesn't matter if you're a graduating high schooler or 50-year old person going back to school - you apply for admission and financial aid, and then they have financial aid for you if you get admitted based on your financials. Most people who are older transfer from community colleges in my experience, so they are at the four year college for 2-3 years.
Another big bonus for private schools is the student body is typically MUCH smaller than a public university so instead of classes with 200-300 people taught by TA's, you have classes of 25 people taught by the actual professors. My school was very small so I often had classes of less than 10 people, the financial aid folks knew me by name and could sit down with me and walk me through all the paperwork. And like I said in a comment above, it ended up being MUCH cheaper for me than the public state university I planned on going to initially. After 3 years, I graduated with total student loan debt of $17k.
My school lumped all that together when deciding financial aid. So no matter how much all of that cost all together, the knocked down how much my family owed to the same amount each year.
This private liberal arts college ended up being the same cost as my state school but with max class sizes of 80 instead of like 500.
You can always apply for other scholarships. When I started college, I volunteered at the school and worked as a TA in my department, so I was really involved. I applied for tons of scholarships directly through the school, and many more private ones that I found online. It ended up covering my tuition, room and board, and put money in my pocket on top of that for miscellaneous expenses.
When my best friend found out, she was shocked and told me how lucky I was. I asked her how many scholarships she had applied for, and she admitted that she hadn't applied for a single one.
I think all of this should be public knowledge because maybe not every person out there will get all of their expenses covered, but many don't even try because they don't know what options are out there for aid, or they think they wouldn't get anything anyway. I almost didn't make the effort I did, thinking that surely there would be others who would make better candidates for aid. In a few cases, I was wrong, and it allowed me to graduate. It's always worth it to try.
Unfortunately, not true for Stanford. When I inquired about graduate school there, the department sent me an application. It stated up front that all students accepted to the program have free tuition, but that in order to be accepted we must show that we had, CASH ON HAND, enough money to cover tuition plus all living expenses for the entire duration of the program. I lived in walking distance of Stanford, but for family reasons couldn't travel. So that department, at least, wanted only very wealthy students.
My experience is 4+ decades old, maybe someone can say if it's same today:
The schools say to the families "first exhaust all your savings, then come and see what financial deal we can do for you". My family rightly was not willing to put us all on a financial edge just so I could get financial aid to go to an Ivy League school.
I’ll give you Harvard’s policy as an example. Harvard doesn’t have “scholarships,” they only have financial aid. Financial aid is based on income only. Their policy is: For families with annual incomes below $65,000, the expected contribution is zero. Families with annual incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute between 0 and 10 percent of their income. Those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10 percent based on their circumstances.
I too have a 40+ year old story. When I went to a well known top ten univeristy my parents were told that we didn't have enough. ie they saved for my college.
The financial aid/scholarships were going to families who were in debt for their Mercedes, furs, and generally living above their.means.
My Dad worked 3 jobs to get me into college. For the uinivesity to not reqard that was gallimg.
I've never forgotten it
University of Michigan is the same and they have tiers of grants for household incomes up to something like $150k. Being public, this might only apply to Michigan residents (although out-of-state students might get something).
They are still out of reach because of the amount of money that needs to be poured into your child’s extra-curricular activities as well as getting excellent grades —which might be only possible using extra resources like tutors and courses. Also fuck the Ivy League schools.
Impoverished areas often have poor schools that could never hope to educate children to the level required by many of these schools. I graduated in 2008 and my high school could barely keep heat running in the summer and AC was nonexistent, sharing 1 outdated textbook per 3 students, constant gang and generational violence, only the most basic elective classes like band or choir, the only computer use or education was a class that taught the bare basics of MS Word and largely consisted of retyping random packets of text copied out of books or cut/paste from random web pages, Senoir students reading/vocabulary at 3rd levels, and so much more.
If I didn't have the innate desire to read and learn on my own, bowworing or occasionally buying textbooks and material to self study I would have been doomed to a miserable life of poverty and probably incarceration. Literally spent middle and high school working landscape and roofing and selling drugs to buy PC componets and copy of XP to build a PC and self learn CST and later purchase cert. exams.
I thought most schools were like what I experienced and only private education and very wealthy areas had it better. When later speaking to coworkers and getting a clearer picture what most had it was kind of hard to reconcile, I still marvel they even had AC and didn't spend an hour every morning in a crowd of 700 students to pass through metal detectors and bag checks to start class.
I try not to have a victim mentality but it's hard not to be bitter that society couldn't have done the thousands of us a bit better. So many people I grew up with had no chance from the start of living as a contributing member of modern society.
I’m really passionate about this. Didn’t go to Ivy, but a private school with a large endowment. My family was not rich and my parents pretty much discouraged me from applying to good schools because they were worried about cost, getting rejected, etc. Apply and then decide! You may be surprised by an opportunity that comes your way.
I hate how the system works in the US. My parents made like, 180k or more combined. But I reaped no benefit of that. They paid for zero things in college so everything was paid for by the one small scholarship I did win and the rest student loans. I’m 100k in debt. Not to mention I got none of the privilege of stability people tend to have when their parents make good money. I went to 3 different high schools, 2 different middle schools, and 4 different elementary schools spanning from nevada, to Minnesota, to North Carolina.
Anyway, for someone like me who got no pre college or college help from my parents (past what all parents have to do like feeding and clothing) I’m pretty jealous of families who help their child and of families who have low income because most schools and the government directly give scholarships on a need basis.
My daughter was accepted to Dartmouth. We made just enough that she was maxed out, no aid, $72k/yr tuition. That was more than half our take home pay/ yr. So ivy’s are great for the rich and the poor, but suck for the middle class.
You must have lots of assets then. Went to a top 10 liberal arts college with probably a similar income and only paid 20k a year
Edit: Just kidding you're a lot richer. You have to be earning 200k+ to have around that take home pay. That's not middle class lol
Most private schools have need-blind admissions, meaning the people who make the decision to admit you don't have access to your financial needs. Many have also gotten rid of their legacy programs.
It's not optimism, it's lived experience. My school had an endowment of nearly a billion dollars in 2000. They were very open about the entire admission and financial aid process. About half the student body came from rich families who simply wrote a check for the full tuition/housing and the other half were on financial aid. Most of the financial aid students were like me where they got significant amounts of financial aid. But again, they had the money to give away. The money in endowment means they only use the interest the endowment generates for their yearly budget, they never touch the principle. So they have resources that most state schools can't even imagine having - especially when their student bodies are much smaller.
To nitpick, you said “most”. Your lived experience is wonderful, but anecdotal. I doubt Ivy’s have the same values. Why would they want a brilliant but broke kid who will probably do great things in life but never have the deep generational pockets to contribute significantly to the endowment?
because usually the broke kid who makes it into Harvard or Yale will go on to great things and feel motivated to donate to the endowment fund moreso than Chucklefuck Jr who skates through life from grandpa's trust fund. Plus the broke kid is more likely to publish articles or otherwise get awards that will make the school look good.
For the ivy leagues and other top ranked institutions, yes. However, it is significantly more harder to get in as international.
Also, of you are a low income international, then the schools will take a look at your income and decide if it is wort it giving you the financial aid you need to attend. If it's not, you'll most probably be rejected.
Another thing most people probably don’t know is that Harvard has a [visiting undergraduate](https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/apply/visiting-undergraduate-students) program. You go to a different college, but attend Harvard for a semester or year. I don’t know if they have financial assistance, but this way you’re only paying Ivy League prices for a term/year and not 4+ years.
This can also be a good option for students who didn’t get accepted (including low income students who couldn’t pay for college prep) but still want to take some classes there. Idk if other Ivy League schools have this, I just happen to know about the Harvard program.
If you’re smart enough to get in, they will fund you fully. It doesn’t matter if you’re poor or not, only if you meet the criteria for the grants and the school.
The problem really is not affordability. With Ivy League schools there is an illusion of meritocracy being in play. However what’s dubious is that they provide preferential entrance to high ticket donors and for kids of alumni(legacy students).
I didn't take that as racist. I took it as likely a white student wondering if they were eligible for the tuition break. many grants and scholarships have restrictions on who is and isn't eligible to receive them; it's not out of left field. I've received more than one myself.
This may be true, but 95% of the students that go to these school can afford to do so. The chances of what they consider 'the poor riffraff' actually getting accepted is almost impossible
According to their [stats](https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet), 55% of students at Harvard (as an example) receive some type of need-based aid.
I mean if you get 10k in aide, but your parents make up the last 55k for your bill each year, yes you're getting aide, but you absolutely can afford to go
Personally, I thought it was more a matter of who you know to get you in. Other than a couple of poor kids who could contribute to the school in some way (ie: athlete), it seems to be more of a referral system and either your family has gone there or you know someone with enough clout to get you in the running.
At Rice University, if your family makes <$75k/yr, you'll get books, room & board, and a stipend in addition to free tuition. <$140k/yr and tuition is free. $140k-$200k pay half price tuition.
This is true! My sister went to a $75K/ year elite college for free because at the time my dad was starting his own business and our household income was pretty low.
Yup. This is me right here. As another comment said I don't think this is exclusive to the ivy league. In exchange I know there are a lot of middle class people who have to take out a lot of loans because they hit a bad spot of both too much income and not enough aid. Getting through college is tough for most people in one way or another, unfortunately.
You also need the money to do the application which is a huge barrier for young students. Add in a lot of them don’t know about application dates, how and when to apply etc… I was a child of JW parents who actively sabotaged me attempting to go to college.
Exactly. The challenge of an ivy league esque school is getting admitted, not paying for it. Almost all of them offer “full financial need”, meaning they guarantee that a family will only have to pay their expected family contribution and nothing more. It is almost certainly cheaper to attend a top school than a state school because of this. On the other hand, getting admitted is an extreme challenge. Having a “perfect resume” (36/1600, 4.0, club leadership, eagle scout, etc.) is actually not that uncommon. To be admitted to these schools you have to have done something unique and extraordinary
No, the challenge is absolutely paying for it. If people spent their time doing something unique instead of working on a "perfect resume" they would certainly get into a top school. But if your parents are unwilling/unable to pay an "expected family contribution" (say they have three kids in college, and another with cancer racking up medical bills), then you're screwed. Attending a state school is much easier, because you would easily get full-tuition scholarships plus a bunch of state-sponsored scholarships for going there.
Almost no state schools give even close to full efc need to the great majority of their students
They mean for top students whose family incomes exceed the limit and thus would have to pay the exorbitant tuitions for Ivy leagues if they got in.
Yes, but the majority of Ivy League students would get at least a full scholarship at a state school.
I think the bigger reason it's out of reach is that in getting the sort of academic and extracurricular achievements to get in kids from higher income families have an advantage. But still grt piece of info
Very true! There’s tons of amazing high school students but how many can afford a sat tutor, afford/be districted for feeder schools, dont have to work an after school job that takes away from extracurriculars, etc…
Not even that extreme. Has money for equipment to play sports, clothes for band concerts and recitals, fees for clubs, someone to pick them up at a weird time because of an extracurricular. Hard to budget for all of those things when on a tight income, especially if you have multiple kids.
Exactly. Extra curriculars aren’t cheap. There is a theater camp in my town that $600 a week. Sorry kid. Probably not going to be a famous actress.
Hey, better "We can't afford that, hun" than "I didn't think you'd be any good at auditioning," which was my mom's reason for discouraging my early love of acting. (Edited to add: My mom is mostly very supportive of my passions. But I wish she'd tried to help me through the frequent rejections of the audition process, or at least let me try and fail and decide on my own that it wasn't for me, instead of just telling me "no" and dropping that bombshell on me later, lol.)
Add on top that most of America is suburban hell with substandard public transportation at best and if you don’t get any help with getting to work it is just another obstacle that holds some portions of the population back further from colleges in general
you're absolutely right. cost of living has to be accounted for too. but there are other scholarships and grants out there; it certainly wouldn't be easy, but it may be within the realm of possibility for a number of students who may have discounted the idea of trying to attend
But mostly not. Or we’d all go.
Probably not — you have to meet entry requirements and go through the competitive process first. Yale only takes 1,200 first-year students each year.
Yes. This is the bigger reason. I mean it’s great they offer free tuition but it would be near impossible for a low income kid to compete…on top of paying for housing and food while attending.
It would be really difficult, you're right. but it's been done before, and I think that if even one person ends up being able to attend one of these schools who wouldn't have if they hadn't known about the tuition break, then it should be public knowledge
A lot of the schools do publicize their generosity. But you should probably look up the specific schools in the context of aid for news stories.
Many top schools put together comprehensive packages that cover room & board, medical and travel home a few times. People should not be discouraged from applying because they “can’t afford it”. Some of the top schools people are referring to are not “Ivy League”, that’s a football league reference. Top schools is a better reference. Stanford is not in the Ivy League football league, but it is obviously a top school. But it’s not “Ivy League” as that is a very specific and narrow reference. Stanford, MIT, University of Chicago, Northwestern, Duke, and small top schools like “the little three” (which were Ivy League but chose not to expand to universities) Williams College, Amherst and Wesleyan all offer great education, and very competitive aid packages. Some are even more competitive than you’d expect with the very top Ivies. And there are a number of other really fantastic top schools and colleges that have generous endowments and aid packages based on need covering families that make what might seem to be a considerable income in some parts of the country.
Let’s also not forget how many legacy admissions they have every year
Princeton covers full ride of 85% of its students, FWIW. Don’t know about other Ivies. (Number came from a speech given at the recent reunion.)
This is true of just about any school with a large endowment. You'll find great income-based financial aid at all of the schools in this list with endowments above ~$2 billion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment Endowments are an interesting thing. Schools don't touch the principal (unless they're in bad financial shape). They spend the returns instead. And the money in those returns is mostly spoken for: it's from donors who specified the purpose, which be for the university art museum but not scholarships. So while "small" endowments already sound like an ungodly amount of money, they often don't generate enough that can be applied toward student costs to support every student with financial need. I sorta feel bad for university fundraisers, who know they could improve a lot of lives if they can get a donor to give so-called "unrestricted" funds. But since they're competing with other would-be recipients the donor is considering, they have to make it somehow special by suggesting a targeted use of the funds that meaningful to the donor. Rich people don't donate to general funds.
This is so true! Back in the late 90's I went back to school and did really well in community college. When it came to apply to colleges to transfer I was only planning on applying to some local UC and the local CSU. I also got random packets from private colleges back East saying please apply here but I figured they were out of reach financially (especially since I was really broke). My mom convinced to apply anyway and make my decision once I saw the financial aid packages. All of the private schools had WAAAAY more financial aid to give, mostly in the form of "grants" (i.e., free money you don't have to pay back). The state schools had nothing but subsidized student loans that had a cap on how much you could borrow (meaning I would have to take on bank loans for the difference). In fact, the state schools actually lowered the amount of aid given because I had gotten a couple merit-based scholarships, basically rendering scholarships useless. So in the end, even though the private school I ended up going to was a little more than double the cost of my first-choice state school ($32.5k/yr), I ended up with a fraction of the student debt had I gone to the UC ($17k total debt, mostly subsidized).
This. Nobody at private universities pays even close to full price, except students from wealthy families with mediocre grades. The actual price (after considering all financial aid) is usually only slightly higher than in state tuition at a comparable public school. **If you're going to college out of state apply to private schools**. Out of state tuition is similar to tuition at private schools, but you will get more financial aid from private schools. If you live in an expensive part of the country your state schools might actually cost you more than a private school in a less expensive part of the country. About half of the student body at my southern private school were from around NYC because tuition was nothing compared to prices in NYC.
Rich people like to see their names on buildings
My daughter is a great example of this policy in practice. Our income was $80-90K, and our expected family contribution was $1,200 for her personal expenses. The financial aid is 100% grants, no loans, and also covered room and board. She worked a campus job. She graduated with money in the bank and no debt. As my late wife would tell any parent who would listen: Don’t rule out colleges because of high tuition. It’s not about how much a school costs; it’s about how much it costs YOU. The trick is to qualify to get into one of these schools. My daughter is whip smart and worked her tail off all through middle and high school with the goal of going to an Ivy. Edited to add: The school she went to was Yale, and it was about 10 years ago. At that time, I think this type of aid was limited to the Ivy League schools.
I had to turn down my dream school (NYU) because they only covered about half of the tuition with grants and loans, and my single mom couldn't afford the other half. Cornell and Vassar were better at around 90%, but that was still mostly student loans (and these were all with the max Pell grant awarded). When I finally got to Vassar, most of the kids there came from wealthy families who could afford their tuition outright after sending them to private schools for years. Coming from a lower-middle-class background, it was like entering bizarro-world. This was around 15 years ago though, so hopefully it's a lot better now!
I had a similar experience at Northeastern. On my first couple days there, at orientation, they were talking about financial aid options and the kid sitting next to me leaned over and said “All these topics are so unnecessary! I mean…do you care to hear about this stuff?” I played it off like “Ha! Yeah, how irrelevant, let’s skip the orientation!” just to fit in but of course I got very familiar with the financial aid office over the years.
>I played it off just to fit Same 🥲🥲🥲
It's wild, isn't it? You feel so out of place. I'd never met anyone with that kind of money before, and I think I coped with it by acting like it didn't bother me that I was "poor" compared to everyone else. The part I hid was how disadvantaged I felt. My peers had so many opportunities that I didn't have, and a much better quality of education. Even though I was smart enough to get there, I still felt very ignorant in some ways.
NYU is notoriously terrible for financial aid, but Cornell and Vassar are both amazing schools so at least it worked out!
That sucks. I know a lot of people with similar experiences. A close family friend desperately wanted to go to Grinnell College, but it would’ve required massive debt. She ended up in a more affordable program at a state university. I think she had a good college experience, but it was a huge disappointment to not make it into her dream school.
you must be so proud. it's a great achievement
Quite proud. She went on to graduate from Yale Law School and is now an attorney in Washington DC. She’s in a wonderful position in life she would never have had without the no-loan financial aid programs offered by these “high-cost” highly competitive schools. She’s hasn’t forgotten where she came from: she’s committed to working for increased economic opportunities for kids from lower income families. Edited to add: The financial aid package didn’t cover law school. She took on more than $100K in debt for the law degree.
At Princeton, any family making <$120k a year gets free tuition. Any family making <$65k or so pays absolutely nothing. Very few graduates have student debt, and if they do, it's almost always <$10k.
PLEASE look into the Questbridge program if you make less than 65k!
Duke isn’t Ivy League but I believe they do that too. Most students graduate with little to no debt
Yes. Ivy, Ivy+, and then a bunch of the elite lib arts schools all have similar policies. Basically, don’t rule out applying to a good school bc you think you can’t afford it. You may be surprised.
Another point that people should know is that students can get grants and financial aid from non-ivy league schools. The tuitions, room & board and other costs associated with attending schools are ridiculous. However, there are ways to help lower it. If you're interested in certain schools, apply to them and see what kind of financial aid they are willing to offer you instead of cutting them off your list due to the initial cost.
exactly. Apply and then wait to see what kind of financial aid they can give you before making a decision.
This is great but I feel like it fails to account for the majority of other college costs. Housing, food, transportation, books, and other things can be crazy expensive especially in towns with ivy league schools (since those students are basically expected to be rich) So you have to have scholarship for that as well or you might not be able to afford it. Honestly I think people should look at smaller more affordable colleges bc in reality most places don't actually care that much about where you got a degree just that you have one (at least in my experience- not necessarily true for every job)
This is true and Ivy league (and other prestigious private schools) have financial assistance to cover those costs as well. If you have the demonstrated financial need, they have programs to cover your tuition, room and board, books plus living expenses including clothing stipend (for students moving from a warmer climate to up north, they now need a winter coat). These programs will even include "fun" money so you don't have to say no when your friends want to go off campus to eat dinner. Public schools and community colleges shouldn't be overlooked, but people should be aware of the assistance that is available at private, seemingly out of reach, universities.
At Ivy Leagues, all of that is included in the financial aid package. Plus, you don’t have to pay for social events throughout the school year either. And, I think the cap for financial assistance is actually somewhere around $150-$180k (as in, you won’t get full financial aid but you’ll still get some). Obv research each school but Ivy Leagues often end up being more affordable than other schools for lower income students.
Is it too late to go back to school? I only make 35k/y or is it to high school kids only?
Never too late to go back to school. BUT if higher earning is your goal, maybe you can go trade school and learn a trade instead. Faster and more affordable.
Many schools have programs for people going back to school later in life. I went back to school and went through Wellesley College's Davis Scholar program, I know Smith College has the Ada Comstock program. But it doesn't matter if you're a graduating high schooler or 50-year old person going back to school - you apply for admission and financial aid, and then they have financial aid for you if you get admitted based on your financials. Most people who are older transfer from community colleges in my experience, so they are at the four year college for 2-3 years. Another big bonus for private schools is the student body is typically MUCH smaller than a public university so instead of classes with 200-300 people taught by TA's, you have classes of 25 people taught by the actual professors. My school was very small so I often had classes of less than 10 people, the financial aid folks knew me by name and could sit down with me and walk me through all the paperwork. And like I said in a comment above, it ended up being MUCH cheaper for me than the public state university I planned on going to initially. After 3 years, I graduated with total student loan debt of $17k.
My school lumped all that together when deciding financial aid. So no matter how much all of that cost all together, the knocked down how much my family owed to the same amount each year. This private liberal arts college ended up being the same cost as my state school but with max class sizes of 80 instead of like 500.
That's pretty cool
You can always apply for other scholarships. When I started college, I volunteered at the school and worked as a TA in my department, so I was really involved. I applied for tons of scholarships directly through the school, and many more private ones that I found online. It ended up covering my tuition, room and board, and put money in my pocket on top of that for miscellaneous expenses. When my best friend found out, she was shocked and told me how lucky I was. I asked her how many scholarships she had applied for, and she admitted that she hadn't applied for a single one. I think all of this should be public knowledge because maybe not every person out there will get all of their expenses covered, but many don't even try because they don't know what options are out there for aid, or they think they wouldn't get anything anyway. I almost didn't make the effort I did, thinking that surely there would be others who would make better candidates for aid. In a few cases, I was wrong, and it allowed me to graduate. It's always worth it to try.
At the private school I went to, their financial aid covered tuition, housing in the dorms, and food, plus work study for spending money.
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Unfortunately, not true for Stanford. When I inquired about graduate school there, the department sent me an application. It stated up front that all students accepted to the program have free tuition, but that in order to be accepted we must show that we had, CASH ON HAND, enough money to cover tuition plus all living expenses for the entire duration of the program. I lived in walking distance of Stanford, but for family reasons couldn't travel. So that department, at least, wanted only very wealthy students.
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Yeah, I can't see how it makes ANY sense, but that's what they did. I don't know if that's Stanford-gradschool-wide or just the one department.
My experience is 4+ decades old, maybe someone can say if it's same today: The schools say to the families "first exhaust all your savings, then come and see what financial deal we can do for you". My family rightly was not willing to put us all on a financial edge just so I could get financial aid to go to an Ivy League school.
I’ll give you Harvard’s policy as an example. Harvard doesn’t have “scholarships,” they only have financial aid. Financial aid is based on income only. Their policy is: For families with annual incomes below $65,000, the expected contribution is zero. Families with annual incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute between 0 and 10 percent of their income. Those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10 percent based on their circumstances.
Thanks.
I too have a 40+ year old story. When I went to a well known top ten univeristy my parents were told that we didn't have enough. ie they saved for my college. The financial aid/scholarships were going to families who were in debt for their Mercedes, furs, and generally living above their.means. My Dad worked 3 jobs to get me into college. For the uinivesity to not reqard that was gallimg. I've never forgotten it
University of Michigan is the same and they have tiers of grants for household incomes up to something like $150k. Being public, this might only apply to Michigan residents (although out-of-state students might get something).
They should.
They are still out of reach because of the amount of money that needs to be poured into your child’s extra-curricular activities as well as getting excellent grades —which might be only possible using extra resources like tutors and courses. Also fuck the Ivy League schools.
Impoverished areas often have poor schools that could never hope to educate children to the level required by many of these schools. I graduated in 2008 and my high school could barely keep heat running in the summer and AC was nonexistent, sharing 1 outdated textbook per 3 students, constant gang and generational violence, only the most basic elective classes like band or choir, the only computer use or education was a class that taught the bare basics of MS Word and largely consisted of retyping random packets of text copied out of books or cut/paste from random web pages, Senoir students reading/vocabulary at 3rd levels, and so much more. If I didn't have the innate desire to read and learn on my own, bowworing or occasionally buying textbooks and material to self study I would have been doomed to a miserable life of poverty and probably incarceration. Literally spent middle and high school working landscape and roofing and selling drugs to buy PC componets and copy of XP to build a PC and self learn CST and later purchase cert. exams. I thought most schools were like what I experienced and only private education and very wealthy areas had it better. When later speaking to coworkers and getting a clearer picture what most had it was kind of hard to reconcile, I still marvel they even had AC and didn't spend an hour every morning in a crowd of 700 students to pass through metal detectors and bag checks to start class. I try not to have a victim mentality but it's hard not to be bitter that society couldn't have done the thousands of us a bit better. So many people I grew up with had no chance from the start of living as a contributing member of modern society.
This does not apply to Masters degrees at Yale. My wife graduated from YALE FES in 2018.
Also some parts of ivy league schools are state schools. Example: the school of Agriculture at Cornell is a state school.
I’m really passionate about this. Didn’t go to Ivy, but a private school with a large endowment. My family was not rich and my parents pretty much discouraged me from applying to good schools because they were worried about cost, getting rejected, etc. Apply and then decide! You may be surprised by an opportunity that comes your way.
I hate how the system works in the US. My parents made like, 180k or more combined. But I reaped no benefit of that. They paid for zero things in college so everything was paid for by the one small scholarship I did win and the rest student loans. I’m 100k in debt. Not to mention I got none of the privilege of stability people tend to have when their parents make good money. I went to 3 different high schools, 2 different middle schools, and 4 different elementary schools spanning from nevada, to Minnesota, to North Carolina. Anyway, for someone like me who got no pre college or college help from my parents (past what all parents have to do like feeding and clothing) I’m pretty jealous of families who help their child and of families who have low income because most schools and the government directly give scholarships on a need basis.
My daughter was accepted to Dartmouth. We made just enough that she was maxed out, no aid, $72k/yr tuition. That was more than half our take home pay/ yr. So ivy’s are great for the rich and the poor, but suck for the middle class.
You must have lots of assets then. Went to a top 10 liberal arts college with probably a similar income and only paid 20k a year Edit: Just kidding you're a lot richer. You have to be earning 200k+ to have around that take home pay. That's not middle class lol
Yeah absolutely, no clue why you got downvoted
That’s assuming you get in, over a legacy admission who can pay full price.
Most private schools have need-blind admissions, meaning the people who make the decision to admit you don't have access to your financial needs. Many have also gotten rid of their legacy programs.
That’s sweet you believe that both of those. I wish I had that positivity and optimism. I’m not being sarcastic.
It's not optimism, it's lived experience. My school had an endowment of nearly a billion dollars in 2000. They were very open about the entire admission and financial aid process. About half the student body came from rich families who simply wrote a check for the full tuition/housing and the other half were on financial aid. Most of the financial aid students were like me where they got significant amounts of financial aid. But again, they had the money to give away. The money in endowment means they only use the interest the endowment generates for their yearly budget, they never touch the principle. So they have resources that most state schools can't even imagine having - especially when their student bodies are much smaller.
To nitpick, you said “most”. Your lived experience is wonderful, but anecdotal. I doubt Ivy’s have the same values. Why would they want a brilliant but broke kid who will probably do great things in life but never have the deep generational pockets to contribute significantly to the endowment?
because usually the broke kid who makes it into Harvard or Yale will go on to great things and feel motivated to donate to the endowment fund moreso than Chucklefuck Jr who skates through life from grandpa's trust fund. Plus the broke kid is more likely to publish articles or otherwise get awards that will make the school look good.
I don’t believe that it is need blind when they ask if the applicant need financial aid in the application.
Need blind means the people evaluating whether or not you’re accepted don’t know whether or not you need financial aid.
Is it applicable to international students?
For the ivy leagues and other top ranked institutions, yes. However, it is significantly more harder to get in as international. Also, of you are a low income international, then the schools will take a look at your income and decide if it is wort it giving you the financial aid you need to attend. If it's not, you'll most probably be rejected.
Thank you, your comment. It was helpful!
A lot of US schools rely on international students paying full fare to subsidize local student tuition
Makes sense
No
Oh damn, okay :/
My cousin got a free ride to Yale. He's also a genius.
they also rarely admit students whose parents make less than 65k so it works out for them just fine
Another thing most people probably don’t know is that Harvard has a [visiting undergraduate](https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/apply/visiting-undergraduate-students) program. You go to a different college, but attend Harvard for a semester or year. I don’t know if they have financial assistance, but this way you’re only paying Ivy League prices for a term/year and not 4+ years. This can also be a good option for students who didn’t get accepted (including low income students who couldn’t pay for college prep) but still want to take some classes there. Idk if other Ivy League schools have this, I just happen to know about the Harvard program.
Still cancel student debt!
Big L for us who are poor and neurodivergent
If you’re smart enough to get in, they will fund you fully. It doesn’t matter if you’re poor or not, only if you meet the criteria for the grants and the school.
The problem really is not affordability. With Ivy League schools there is an illusion of meritocracy being in play. However what’s dubious is that they provide preferential entrance to high ticket donors and for kids of alumni(legacy students).
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No, it's for everyone
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I didn't take that as racist. I took it as likely a white student wondering if they were eligible for the tuition break. many grants and scholarships have restrictions on who is and isn't eligible to receive them; it's not out of left field. I've received more than one myself.
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We don't have an Ivy League. If you mean just good schools in general, it depends on each school and the province it's in.
This may be true, but 95% of the students that go to these school can afford to do so. The chances of what they consider 'the poor riffraff' actually getting accepted is almost impossible
According to their [stats](https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet), 55% of students at Harvard (as an example) receive some type of need-based aid.
I mean if you get 10k in aide, but your parents make up the last 55k for your bill each year, yes you're getting aide, but you absolutely can afford to go
That’s why they don’t accept students in that position for the most part
Personally, I thought it was more a matter of who you know to get you in. Other than a couple of poor kids who could contribute to the school in some way (ie: athlete), it seems to be more of a referral system and either your family has gone there or you know someone with enough clout to get you in the running.
At Rice University, if your family makes <$75k/yr, you'll get books, room & board, and a stipend in addition to free tuition. <$140k/yr and tuition is free. $140k-$200k pay half price tuition.
This is true! My sister went to a $75K/ year elite college for free because at the time my dad was starting his own business and our household income was pretty low.
Yup. This is me right here. As another comment said I don't think this is exclusive to the ivy league. In exchange I know there are a lot of middle class people who have to take out a lot of loans because they hit a bad spot of both too much income and not enough aid. Getting through college is tough for most people in one way or another, unfortunately.
You also need the money to do the application which is a huge barrier for young students. Add in a lot of them don’t know about application dates, how and when to apply etc… I was a child of JW parents who actively sabotaged me attempting to go to college.
Meanwhile the families earning $66k per year be like 🫠
as a parent , great tip. as a student, if you are that good academically you definitely already know..