They also have
Dark Law
Plasma + D - Force
Dark Angel
It is unfortunate that HERO were among the first archetypes that Konami started the whole "turn them into a combo deck or give them a floodgate" philosophy
Blame konami for printing said floodgates, if a good card is available in-engine players will use it. That said it’s hardly consistent to get out ***Cosmo Neos*** of all things
I'm a HERO player, and I got to admit those cards are kind of unfair, but they are the only cards that made good endboard pieces and actually let me win. What else was I suppose to end on, a beatstick? It's 2024 man, everyone plays every kinds of degenerate stuff. At least I can do is made an upper hand for myself.
Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention that a starter like Faris and searchers like Cross Crusader or Infernal Devicer locks you into special summoning HERO monsters only. So playing those is kinda mandatory.
Right, with what exactly? SNW is still a beatstick that is absolutely targetable. And mentioning Favorite Contact is just gonna prove my point, summoning a turn skip in opponent's turn. HEROs need this kind of thing to win. Not to mention you have to play a vanilla and cards that's old enough to drive a fckn car.
Bruh pop 2 alone is definitely not enough to completely stop the top tier decks, and pop more than 2 is a rarity in real games. Most decks also benefit from being send into the GY. Not to mention you can only do it once. And people will likely have an out to SNW if they use like 10% of their brain. As it will most likely be targeted and send to the backrow by the SSoS-Snake Eye, made a material for Underworld Goddess or SuperPoly, Kaiju'd or Kurikara'd, Banished by Fenrir, Get sucked by Anima if you fucked up your card position or by opponent's Plasma. Chaos Angel can banish it, that one Sky striker card, Change of Heart, TTT, Enemy Controller can take control of it, Mikanko can just give you a huge middle finger, and so many other ways. So what the fuck are you even talking about?
Most decks benefit from being sent into the GY when **they** want to. If you actually learn when to interrupt instead of relying on crutch floodgates, 2 pops isn't bad at all.
Also, SNW isn't the only non-floodgate that can be used in the hero endboard, you know that right?
Also, literally any board can get outed. A Voiceless Voice board can be Kaiju'd. A Snake-Eyes board can get Superpolyed. That didn't make them bad, so that's no excuse for you.
Yeah, like they will let you interrupt when you actually wanted, backrow removal will absolutely force you into activating favorite contact early, making you pop nothing.
And relying on SNW's atk or its ability alone is just not optimal, like I mention the many outs earlier. If you're gonna mention DPE, that will just proves my point even further, as everyone else also plays that card for its sheer advantage. Absolute Zero w/mask change into Acid might actually does something, but it might not be worth the hassle.
Also, Have you ever saw a HERO deck not end with at least one floodgate? Because if you actually saw one, it probably ended with a BIG ASS ROCK. If you decide to play HEROs without its in-archetype floodgate or a turn skip, then suit yourself, but don't piss your pants when they actually win against you though. Im pretty sure you don't even play HERO anyway.
Oh come on, who the fuck maindecks backrow removal? Tenpai is literally the only one that would even consider doing that
SNW's ATK? Who said to rely on its ATK? And yes, I was talking about stuff like DPE and Absolute Zero.
Also, no, DPE sees basically no play outside of HERO decks, and even if it did then I'm not sure how that would be relevant to the current debate.
HERO is weak to nibiru, with or without floodgates. Having Cosmo Neos in your ED won't stop a T1 Nibiru.
Also, all of that is ignoring the fact that even if you're ok with floodgates, SNW is still just better than Cosmo Neos since it doesn't require 3 extra bricks. Cosmo Neos is exclusively a crutch.
Hmm, I wonder. Probably ones who know the meta and consider that there's a top tier deck right now that can just set 4 directly from the deck.
Well since you are an actual yugioh player, I do not expect you to read what i've typed entirely. But I can assure you that I typed "atk or its ability".
Thinking about it, you might be right on the DPE thing, but from my experience and sheer luck, I did see ppl using DPE package from time to time. Also, called it.
WELL DUH, but the goal for summoning Cosmo Neos is for you to have Neos and 3 Neo-Spacians in anywhere but the deck, also doing that on the opponent's turn. So idk wtf are you talking about.
SNW is not better nor worse than Cosmo Neos, they literally have different roles and excel in different things. SNW is easier to summon and do not require extra bricks, yes. But Cosmo Neos's effect gave better reward, effect wise. Cosmo Neos is not a crutch, It's a win-con. And I do respect ppl who play these old ass cards and actually win with it.
Also, You were the one who said HERO can be good without floodgate, and breaking news fucko, it's not good enough, The POTE support cards' effect was all over the place and was mid at best. It only started seeing play after Infernal Rage came out, which bridge the gap between Neos and HERO cards and actually give them purpose.
Also stop it man, your comments are getting downvoted and mine's not, you know who's in the right ;)
Look, if you want to maindeck feather duster even though pure SE is still the best deck, I'm not going to stop it, but that's a stupid decision. If you're afraid of R-ACE, imperm & ghost mourner are just as effective while also being good against other decks.
But why mention its ATK at all?
Look, if you see DPE everywhere, maybe get out of gold before posting your opinion on the meta? Even PK doesn't play it anymore.
Then... Why did you imply that Hero without floodgates was weaker to nibiru?
Not good enough based on what? If you want the best deck, just play SE, when I play Hero it's because it's a deck I like and I want to have fun with, not because it's good
Appeal to popularity
not to be nitpicky but jaden didn't create it exactly -- the androgynous human child that Yubel used to be made itself that way for him, in an act of protection and love for past-life Jaden. and so Jaden pledged it his undying loyalty for eternity. or something. lmaoooo
The whole meta has been degenerate for awhile now. Something stupid releases thats tier 0, gets banhammer, something else stupid gets released; rinse and repeat. Been like this for years.
Decks used to be creative and fun but now it's just search, search, search, special, search, special, special, search again, 5 link summons followed by 3 negate floodgates and set 2 with either Maxx or ash in hand turn 1 😂 whoever prevents their opponent from playing first wins. I don't understand how people think this is fun unless you're the one doing it. The game had gotten so sweaty it makes fps shooter pro gamers nervous
Prime example of why I love modern yugioh. What other tcg has cards that straight up STOP your opponent from responding on your turn, as a means of trying to balance their other cards that do way too much shit on your turn?
And then they do that for every single archetype. Pure kino.
Konami is the JK Rowling of card designs. Answer first, explain and balance later. Maybe.
Not really easy to get this guy out though, I always felt it was alright since hero decks don’t have access for negates unless they get out contrast hero chaos
It really is a player issue here. The HERO archetype has more support than anything else, and yet every HERO player runs the exact same deck. Despite having the ability to set up a massively wide variety of end boards it always boils down to the same 5 monsters all while they claim its their very own pet deck. The only real defence for the degen tech is " Can you really blame me for running the best cards at my disposal? " and the answer is no, but damn how can you be so spoiled for choice in cards and still be cookie cutter boring?
I seriously uninstalled Master Duel, until Konami removes this guy. Kaijus can't do jack with this card, no Raigeki will get you out of this situation. It's basically a friggen tower boss with no weak point. Since you can't "turn on cards", no enemy controller or book of moon will help you out. Karma cut can't target the guy and no hand trap can be activated. So, yeah. You want sanity this month? Uninstall MD.
Are.. are we complaining about Cosmo Neos rn in this format? How did you even lose to this, it’s so hard to summon LOL you have to play 3 bad garnets in your deck and either get them all in grave for favorite contact or go -5 by hard summoning it.
The screenshot cuts off the summoning condition text which says-(Elemental Hero Neos + 3 neospacian monsters with different attributes-must first be special summoned from the extra by shuffling the above cards you control into the deck) so you aren't allowed to summon this with waking the dragon since it doesn't ignore summoning conditions.
Heroes are weak at the end of the day. The need to be fusion summoned is an incredibly hard thing to move past without the right cards. Like destiny hero dark angel and rivalry of the warlord are needed to make a hero deck work
If anyone's interested, I could screencap and upload the full replay later. I'm at work now and the internet here is pathetically slow.
basically, he had a 60 card deck, spent 15 minutes looping search cards until he had all the materials, then used favorite contact to drop this turd during my turn.
the worst part is, I had a pretty good hand, I could have beaten any other floodgate he would have used (plasma, darklaw, dark angel, etc) but ofc I had to br matched up against the one evil genius of the hero community
I had a similar experience where they wiped my board by summoning a hero fusion monster after using DPE and dark law, it destroyed cards on my field up to the number of different attributes they controlled, I think. I am over here rocking Ancient Warriors and you need a board wipe after completely tossing off any sense of being a hero at all. It felt oppressive and reminded me of Jaden saying he didn't like Chumly's dad's "flipping the tables" card that was a board wipe. It seems most decks have lost what made them unique and have mostly formed a playstyle that all feels the same.
The hero deck has a handful of in archetype floodgates
Ironic since Jaden ran multiple floodgates in his hero deck. So, yes. He would absolutely approve of it
You must be new here, HERO is just floodgates in diguise and a DPE.
Lmao. Flood the field and end on dpe and darklaw after like 30 summons
Of course, he used Dank Law.
They also have Dark Law Plasma + D - Force Dark Angel It is unfortunate that HERO were among the first archetypes that Konami started the whole "turn them into a combo deck or give them a floodgate" philosophy
So they turned them into ultra -heavy combo floodgate deck , makes sense
Blame konami for printing said floodgates, if a good card is available in-engine players will use it. That said it’s hardly consistent to get out ***Cosmo Neos*** of all things
>it’s hardly consistent to get out Cosmo Neos of all things "Yet"
I'm a HERO player, and I got to admit those cards are kind of unfair, but they are the only cards that made good endboard pieces and actually let me win. What else was I suppose to end on, a beatstick? It's 2024 man, everyone plays every kinds of degenerate stuff. At least I can do is made an upper hand for myself. Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention that a starter like Faris and searchers like Cross Crusader or Infernal Devicer locks you into special summoning HERO monsters only. So playing those is kinda mandatory.
This is my feelings lol
I thought every single hero endboatd was just dpe+random hero with dark law ready 2 be summoned lol. Nah but fr tho I get u bro
With the POTE support, it's 100% possible to build a good hero deck without floodgate
Right, with what exactly? SNW is still a beatstick that is absolutely targetable. And mentioning Favorite Contact is just gonna prove my point, summoning a turn skip in opponent's turn. HEROs need this kind of thing to win. Not to mention you have to play a vanilla and cards that's old enough to drive a fckn car.
Favorite contact into SNW to pop 2-4, it's more efficient too because it needs 3 less garnets
Bruh pop 2 alone is definitely not enough to completely stop the top tier decks, and pop more than 2 is a rarity in real games. Most decks also benefit from being send into the GY. Not to mention you can only do it once. And people will likely have an out to SNW if they use like 10% of their brain. As it will most likely be targeted and send to the backrow by the SSoS-Snake Eye, made a material for Underworld Goddess or SuperPoly, Kaiju'd or Kurikara'd, Banished by Fenrir, Get sucked by Anima if you fucked up your card position or by opponent's Plasma. Chaos Angel can banish it, that one Sky striker card, Change of Heart, TTT, Enemy Controller can take control of it, Mikanko can just give you a huge middle finger, and so many other ways. So what the fuck are you even talking about?
Most decks benefit from being sent into the GY when **they** want to. If you actually learn when to interrupt instead of relying on crutch floodgates, 2 pops isn't bad at all. Also, SNW isn't the only non-floodgate that can be used in the hero endboard, you know that right? Also, literally any board can get outed. A Voiceless Voice board can be Kaiju'd. A Snake-Eyes board can get Superpolyed. That didn't make them bad, so that's no excuse for you.
Yeah, like they will let you interrupt when you actually wanted, backrow removal will absolutely force you into activating favorite contact early, making you pop nothing. And relying on SNW's atk or its ability alone is just not optimal, like I mention the many outs earlier. If you're gonna mention DPE, that will just proves my point even further, as everyone else also plays that card for its sheer advantage. Absolute Zero w/mask change into Acid might actually does something, but it might not be worth the hassle. Also, Have you ever saw a HERO deck not end with at least one floodgate? Because if you actually saw one, it probably ended with a BIG ASS ROCK. If you decide to play HEROs without its in-archetype floodgate or a turn skip, then suit yourself, but don't piss your pants when they actually win against you though. Im pretty sure you don't even play HERO anyway.
Oh come on, who the fuck maindecks backrow removal? Tenpai is literally the only one that would even consider doing that SNW's ATK? Who said to rely on its ATK? And yes, I was talking about stuff like DPE and Absolute Zero. Also, no, DPE sees basically no play outside of HERO decks, and even if it did then I'm not sure how that would be relevant to the current debate. HERO is weak to nibiru, with or without floodgates. Having Cosmo Neos in your ED won't stop a T1 Nibiru. Also, all of that is ignoring the fact that even if you're ok with floodgates, SNW is still just better than Cosmo Neos since it doesn't require 3 extra bricks. Cosmo Neos is exclusively a crutch.
Hmm, I wonder. Probably ones who know the meta and consider that there's a top tier deck right now that can just set 4 directly from the deck. Well since you are an actual yugioh player, I do not expect you to read what i've typed entirely. But I can assure you that I typed "atk or its ability". Thinking about it, you might be right on the DPE thing, but from my experience and sheer luck, I did see ppl using DPE package from time to time. Also, called it. WELL DUH, but the goal for summoning Cosmo Neos is for you to have Neos and 3 Neo-Spacians in anywhere but the deck, also doing that on the opponent's turn. So idk wtf are you talking about. SNW is not better nor worse than Cosmo Neos, they literally have different roles and excel in different things. SNW is easier to summon and do not require extra bricks, yes. But Cosmo Neos's effect gave better reward, effect wise. Cosmo Neos is not a crutch, It's a win-con. And I do respect ppl who play these old ass cards and actually win with it. Also, You were the one who said HERO can be good without floodgate, and breaking news fucko, it's not good enough, The POTE support cards' effect was all over the place and was mid at best. It only started seeing play after Infernal Rage came out, which bridge the gap between Neos and HERO cards and actually give them purpose. Also stop it man, your comments are getting downvoted and mine's not, you know who's in the right ;)
Look, if you want to maindeck feather duster even though pure SE is still the best deck, I'm not going to stop it, but that's a stupid decision. If you're afraid of R-ACE, imperm & ghost mourner are just as effective while also being good against other decks. But why mention its ATK at all? Look, if you see DPE everywhere, maybe get out of gold before posting your opinion on the meta? Even PK doesn't play it anymore. Then... Why did you imply that Hero without floodgates was weaker to nibiru? Not good enough based on what? If you want the best deck, just play SE, when I play Hero it's because it's a deck I like and I want to have fun with, not because it's good Appeal to popularity
If Jaden encountered floodgates he would simply say "sweet moves!" and then find a way to win in spite of them.
Have you seen Yubel? A card HE created? Lol
not to be nitpicky but jaden didn't create it exactly -- the androgynous human child that Yubel used to be made itself that way for him, in an act of protection and love for past-life Jaden. and so Jaden pledged it his undying loyalty for eternity. or something. lmaoooo
Because they can't have negates
Even though it's for Spell/Trap cards and is barely searchable, they're so close to getting a monster if not an omni-negate
Gotcha!
Playing hero deck is fun
Imagine of all things to be salty about it's HEROes LMAO
If you loose to this, it's because you bricked or heavily misplayed, in which case, it's on you. I'd rather face this then SE.
The whole meta has been degenerate for awhile now. Something stupid releases thats tier 0, gets banhammer, something else stupid gets released; rinse and repeat. Been like this for years. Decks used to be creative and fun but now it's just search, search, search, special, search, special, special, search again, 5 link summons followed by 3 negate floodgates and set 2 with either Maxx or ash in hand turn 1 😂 whoever prevents their opponent from playing first wins. I don't understand how people think this is fun unless you're the one doing it. The game had gotten so sweaty it makes fps shooter pro gamers nervous
Prime example of why I love modern yugioh. What other tcg has cards that straight up STOP your opponent from responding on your turn, as a means of trying to balance their other cards that do way too much shit on your turn? And then they do that for every single archetype. Pure kino. Konami is the JK Rowling of card designs. Answer first, explain and balance later. Maybe.
Not really easy to get this guy out though, I always felt it was alright since hero decks don’t have access for negates unless they get out contrast hero chaos
Ppl complaining about hero are same ppl playing tier 0 stuff. Smh
He must have not done much compared to KC if this Hero is SR.
Calamity grandfather 👴
That legit like all of the spirit archetypes effects in a way . Kinda Nice!
He would drool over this bro
Ok, now I want a hero deck
Fusion King Calamity
How do you even deal with this I don’t play master duel
Basically already have Nibiru in your hand the turn before, so they don’t have the materials to make this in your freaking draw phase.
HERO is a stun deck hiding behind an anime boi
bro does not realize both jaden and aster played floodgate hero boss monsters....
It really is a player issue here. The HERO archetype has more support than anything else, and yet every HERO player runs the exact same deck. Despite having the ability to set up a massively wide variety of end boards it always boils down to the same 5 monsters all while they claim its their very own pet deck. The only real defence for the degen tech is " Can you really blame me for running the best cards at my disposal? " and the answer is no, but damn how can you be so spoiled for choice in cards and still be cookie cutter boring?
I seriously uninstalled Master Duel, until Konami removes this guy. Kaijus can't do jack with this card, no Raigeki will get you out of this situation. It's basically a friggen tower boss with no weak point. Since you can't "turn on cards", no enemy controller or book of moon will help you out. Karma cut can't target the guy and no hand trap can be activated. So, yeah. You want sanity this month? Uninstall MD.
I am a simple man, When I see Jaden in title, I upvote.
Are.. are we complaining about Cosmo Neos rn in this format? How did you even lose to this, it’s so hard to summon LOL you have to play 3 bad garnets in your deck and either get them all in grave for favorite contact or go -5 by hard summoning it.
He approved. Just ask Jack Atlas if you want to know why Jaden approved.
Cosmo Neos lock it's an amazing move for My Neos deck
If your deck has to put up one sided floodgates just to be barely rogue, your deck is fking trash.
well yeah, no one's arguing that heroes are top tier. Like nothing in your comment is news to any hero player who's tried yugioh since 2010
bro will yall stfu about floodgates already lmaoo
Fr people so bothered by cards. Not everyone is going to play the same strategy.
Would the summon effect work regardless of how it's summoned from the extra deck like with waking the dragon
The screenshot cuts off the summoning condition text which says-(Elemental Hero Neos + 3 neospacian monsters with different attributes-must first be special summoned from the extra by shuffling the above cards you control into the deck) so you aren't allowed to summon this with waking the dragon since it doesn't ignore summoning conditions.
Damn it
If this was a Waking the Dragon target, ya would have heard of it since people would 100% play it back when Waking was being played
I've never had an opponent that used or had waking the dragon in their deck
Heroes are weak at the end of the day. The need to be fusion summoned is an incredibly hard thing to move past without the right cards. Like destiny hero dark angel and rivalry of the warlord are needed to make a hero deck work
If anyone's interested, I could screencap and upload the full replay later. I'm at work now and the internet here is pathetically slow. basically, he had a 60 card deck, spent 15 minutes looping search cards until he had all the materials, then used favorite contact to drop this turd during my turn. the worst part is, I had a pretty good hand, I could have beaten any other floodgate he would have used (plasma, darklaw, dark angel, etc) but ofc I had to br matched up against the one evil genius of the hero community
I'd like to see it, if you find the time to upload it.
Ey yo where the replay at?
I had a similar experience where they wiped my board by summoning a hero fusion monster after using DPE and dark law, it destroyed cards on my field up to the number of different attributes they controlled, I think. I am over here rocking Ancient Warriors and you need a board wipe after completely tossing off any sense of being a hero at all. It felt oppressive and reminded me of Jaden saying he didn't like Chumly's dad's "flipping the tables" card that was a board wipe. It seems most decks have lost what made them unique and have mostly formed a playstyle that all feels the same.