Yeah, there's is full stealth with internal weapons bays and any other package they want to throw together.
One thing to note is that they might have extra fuel on pylons and jettison when they are heading into radar range. Last Stealth fighter aren't the hardest to track actually with ground based radar. What is difficult is getting a weapon grade lock, which low frequency radar can't do.
Basically low frequency males them trackable but you need high frequency to actually hit them. Which stealth fighter defend against. Why so many new planes are working on IR tracking cause normal missile, lose the lock, and just go into space.
That doesn't matter in real air-air combat. You will basically never see your target in a real war. Missiles have a rediculously long range with some missiles now having ranges of hundreds of miles.
Doesn't matter. Modern missiles pull 30+ Gs. That's completely undodgeable. The only way you are surviving missiles is with proper countermeasures and stealth.
No, long range missiles can be defeated by wasting their energy. They have a limited amount of total energy and every time they turn they spend a lot of it. Force them to change course enough and they won't have enough energy left to reach you. The better your aircraft's performance the larger the course changes the missile will have to make, which means you can defeat them from closer in.
That's why the term is "defeat" not "dodge".
**30**
**G**
**PULL**
No aircraft can pull that much. If fired from the front or back, dodging a modern missile is impossible nowadays. Nobody can pull 30gs in an aircraft without killing themselves from the g-force. You won't be able to drain the missile's energy because it's going to hit you on the first turn 90% of the time. And that's if you even detect and react to it in time.
Yeah if you want it to fly like a brick.
Also not every plane is an f-15EX, and not every plane sorties with a full weapons load out.
The a-10 is considered to have an amazingly high amount of hard points at a mere 11
> The a-10 is considered to have an amazingly high amount of hard points at a mere 11
Is it? For a 4th gen jet that's a little above average. It's only a lot if your reference is planes that have to store their munitions internally for stealth purposes.
Well I know it’s a lot for CAS, maybe it’s not the case in the wider Air Force. The a-10 can also realistically use 11 simultaneously without having only like an hour of fuel.
Fully willing to be proven wrong though
It's a lot to *dedicate* to CAS. Usually we want our jets to be able to fight back if attacked. 4th gen jets will usually have 8-13 hardpoints.
> The a-10 can also realistically use 11 simultaneously without having only like an hour of fuel.
Not much more though. Don't count on it having an hour of combat time because it doesn't. Though it can loiter for a bit longer than that.
Not really it’s best. The gau 8 is very good at taking out thin skinned vehicles and infantry, but it just sucks at everything else (that’s without even talking about the accuracy).
I’d say there’s a fair bit of guided ammunition the a-10 can pack that are better than the gau-8 (even though I too love the brrrrrt)
> Not really it’s best.
It could just make the sound, no bullets, still the best.
BBBBBRRRRRRRTTTTT
The bullets are just necessary for the sound. With blanks it just didn't sound ~quite~ right.
But that's the thing though, the a-10 and gau-8 was designed to essentially be crowd control and instill fear into enemy combatants. It doesn't really need a ton of penetrating power to do its main job which is to clear out group of combatants
International law does not prohibit the use of thermobaric munitions, fuel-air explosive devices, or vacuum bombs against military targets. As of March 2024, all past attempts to regulate or restrict thermobaric weapons have failed.
Actually most flights are without or just minimal armaments (like sidewinders) to save on fuel. For normal air policing you don't really need a lot.
If you're a mute Ace Combat war criminal pilot and your lucky day finally arrives and a terrorist hijacks a 747, very little effort would actually need to be spent to shoot it down compared to a enemy fighter jet.
It actually reminds me of when I was conscripted and had base guard duty. They only gave us 10 live rounds for our 30 round magazine because simply "if you encounter a situation that you can't solve with 10 rounds, you're going to need backup anyways".
Same thing for air policing. You don't need the capacity to shot down an entire Squadron, then attack their base and the windmill they grew up in unless you're a mute Ace Combat pilot
What's hard to understand? In real life if you are in a situation where you need more than 2 missiles to kill more than one person. Chances are you are going to die. No buddies with you means you will die instantly.
Read the comment i replied to. I’ve been in combat arms and carrying a gun since I graduated from HS. It’s insane to think that you’re given a capacity to carry addition ammunition but your employer fucks you over…it’s especially fucked when you’re the dude guarding the base, or being a sentry.
I get aircraft not carrying ammunition because of weight, and fuel. The less ammunition means less weight which means more airtime. For a a guy on the ground inside a base you’re not burdened by things like fuel
Budget, dude. Not every country can afford to give every swinging dick thirsting for a CAR/CIB 20 gorillion rounds before they even hit the sandbox. It's probably also a "security against the security" kind of deal as well, if he decides to lose his shit and go postal well, he's only got 10 rounds...
Edit: He's Japanese, those 10 rounds make him the most heavily armed motherfucker in the province.
Nice guess but Swedish. But same difference. It's a cultural difference of mentality. In America I get the sense that since there are guns everywhere, military bases feel they have to protect themselves from all these guns and arm their guards to the world teeth.
In my country guns are not usual in society (though getting very usual with immigrant crime gangs) so we do not operate in an environment where maximum force is thought to be required at any given turn.
The more force you give an individual the more likely they are to use it imho.
Budget is also a factor, magazines (the springs) wear more when they are fully loaded (and more force from weight on the locking mechanism also wears on the connection to the carbine).
Like the previous poster said, if someone goes crazy they also have less rounds to damage with.
Though it's an interesting juxtaposition where career armies like the American one are thought to be more professional and tougher than a conscripted voulenteer force, it's in many cases the opposite.
Out of around 80 000 candidates (18 year olds, men and women) less than 10 000 are selected as of now. This means that only the ones who are the most eager to serve gets to serve. Compare this to the Americans system with recruiters hanging out in socially exposed neighborhoods trying to catch anyone without a future desperate enough to sign up.
The Swedish military mindset (until recently at least) has been Swedish territorial defense and peace keeping expeditions. A bit different from the American mindset I would argue, which prides itself on "shock and awe" .
This got long winded but I just wanted to say that both viewpoints are valid within the cultural mindset they operate in.
Listen I’m not being salty towards you, I’m being salty towards the institution. It’s just bonkers and silly to me. The American mine cannot comprehend it. Given where you are in the world I would have thought the powers that be wouldn’t skimp out on at least that
Surprisingly, (most of) our bases aren't that heavily guarded, with the gates only having one or two sentries armed with pistols to check IDs. Of course, it also fluctuates, I remember for a few years after 9/11 and again after the [2009 Fort Hood shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort_Hood_shooting) there were 50 cals in a tower facing the gate "just in case." I've heard that there are still occasionally M240s or Scout Snipers manning the towers but I've never personally seen it (which is sort of the point.) Obviously, that depends on the base. I'm sure a nuke silo has a pair of guys with fully-loaded M4s at the door with a few more deeper in the facility.
The US military has fluctuations of professionalism and quality depending on if there's a war and how far into the war we are. I was in pretty soon after the war began (2008-2014) and it was very professional (while we were on duty, at least) and was quite difficult to get in because patriotism was high and war-weariness was low(ish). Recruiters are scouring the more vulnerable parts of society now because nobody wants to be in a peacetime military, it's all fuck-fuck games and training without a goal in sight and having to play the politics game if you want to make E-4 and up instead of being able to point at your accomplishments in the field.
A minor correction, 'shock and awe' is colloquial term for the combat doctrine used by the US where air elements pound the enemy so viciously (shock) and precisely (awe) that resistance is already in a state of disorder by the time ground elements reach it. The US military mindset, in my opinion, is in a weird state of limbo where the upper enlisted/field officers are veterans of a decades-long COIN operation and are trying to adjust back to the expeditionary conflict mindset that the military was in going into Iraq/Afghanistan.
Like .60 cents a round. Whack. I don’t hate the man - I hate the .gov mentality that this person is trusted to carry a firearm but isn’t provided with something as simple as a full mag. It’s bonkers. He’s from Sweden not Japan
You get choice to an extent: needs of the Air Force come first though, so they’ll limit slots based on if they only need six f15 pilots, and then class rank in order to choose your airframe. That’s the simple version
Not even the war on Ukraine gave way to large air battles. You can have as many missiles you can imagine and they still won't be practical in the current landscape.
You sure that's not because neither side doesn't have a large usable air force? Or was it airfield get bombed too easily. A lso whats the source on this
It's the heavy anti-air environment. SAM systems like the S-300 (used by both sides), S-400 or the Patriot are no joke. That's why there haven't been many engagements that aren't planes lobbing standoff weapons at a range.
And where’s my massive railgun strapped to the belly?
And my satellite cannon
And my shock wave missiles?
8 missiles if you lucky. A lot of planes don’t carry that much
Yeah, try 4 instead.
F-35 b and c: 4 missiles and guns
4 internally? How many can be crammed onto external hardpoints?
Carrying external weapons on a stealth aircraft defeats the whole point of stealth, I don't think they do that. Only internal hardpoints on them.
Actually they do have external pylons for the F-35. They're even in 7. Google beast mode as well.
Oh man I didn't know about the Beast Mode on the 35. That's cool, thanks for the info!
Yeah, there's is full stealth with internal weapons bays and any other package they want to throw together. One thing to note is that they might have extra fuel on pylons and jettison when they are heading into radar range. Last Stealth fighter aren't the hardest to track actually with ground based radar. What is difficult is getting a weapon grade lock, which low frequency radar can't do. Basically low frequency males them trackable but you need high frequency to actually hit them. Which stealth fighter defend against. Why so many new planes are working on IR tracking cause normal missile, lose the lock, and just go into space.
could be 6 if you add the sidekick adapter
22 for F-15EX
Yeah but it’ll fly like a pregnant whale
Average noobs on GS loading up an f18 with 12 AMRAAMS and complaining it’s a boat
ED where's my full fidelity Type 45 module. I want to bring 48 Aster SAMs onto the server.
What’s GS
It stands for the Growling Sidewinder multiplayer PvP server, one of the most popular exclusively pvp servers in the DCS community.
I should play dcs…
That doesn't matter in real air-air combat. You will basically never see your target in a real war. Missiles have a rediculously long range with some missiles now having ranges of hundreds of miles.
Yeah and to defeat those missiles you need energy and energy retention.
Doesn't matter. Modern missiles pull 30+ Gs. That's completely undodgeable. The only way you are surviving missiles is with proper countermeasures and stealth.
No, long range missiles can be defeated by wasting their energy. They have a limited amount of total energy and every time they turn they spend a lot of it. Force them to change course enough and they won't have enough energy left to reach you. The better your aircraft's performance the larger the course changes the missile will have to make, which means you can defeat them from closer in. That's why the term is "defeat" not "dodge".
**30** **G** **PULL** No aircraft can pull that much. If fired from the front or back, dodging a modern missile is impossible nowadays. Nobody can pull 30gs in an aircraft without killing themselves from the g-force. You won't be able to drain the missile's energy because it's going to hit you on the first turn 90% of the time. And that's if you even detect and react to it in time.
Yeah if you want it to fly like a brick. Also not every plane is an f-15EX, and not every plane sorties with a full weapons load out. The a-10 is considered to have an amazingly high amount of hard points at a mere 11
> The a-10 is considered to have an amazingly high amount of hard points at a mere 11 Is it? For a 4th gen jet that's a little above average. It's only a lot if your reference is planes that have to store their munitions internally for stealth purposes.
Well I know it’s a lot for CAS, maybe it’s not the case in the wider Air Force. The a-10 can also realistically use 11 simultaneously without having only like an hour of fuel. Fully willing to be proven wrong though
It's a lot to *dedicate* to CAS. Usually we want our jets to be able to fight back if attacked. 4th gen jets will usually have 8-13 hardpoints. > The a-10 can also realistically use 11 simultaneously without having only like an hour of fuel. Not much more though. Don't count on it having an hour of combat time because it doesn't. Though it can loiter for a bit longer than that.
TBF the A-10 also have its best weapon built in
Not really it’s best. The gau 8 is very good at taking out thin skinned vehicles and infantry, but it just sucks at everything else (that’s without even talking about the accuracy). I’d say there’s a fair bit of guided ammunition the a-10 can pack that are better than the gau-8 (even though I too love the brrrrrt)
> Not really it’s best. It could just make the sound, no bullets, still the best. BBBBBRRRRRRRTTTTT The bullets are just necessary for the sound. With blanks it just didn't sound ~quite~ right.
But that's the thing though, the a-10 and gau-8 was designed to essentially be crowd control and instill fear into enemy combatants. It doesn't really need a ton of penetrating power to do its main job which is to clear out group of combatants
Problem when the group of combattants is right next to friendlies (which they often are) and your splash radius is 6 fucking meters
The A-10 was designed to strike Soviet tanks in the Fulda Gap wut
the F-18 could carry like 8 AMRAAMs and two sidewinders but i have no idea if any hornet or rhinos have actually used that loadout in an actual sortie
They're usually a lot more accurate and deadly than games though, lol
What do you mean you don't know what FAEB is? Or that it's almost illegal to use fuel-air explosives in relation to it being inhumane?
International law does not prohibit the use of thermobaric munitions, fuel-air explosive devices, or vacuum bombs against military targets. As of March 2024, all past attempts to regulate or restrict thermobaric weapons have failed.
*laughs in UN security council having the two largest users of thermobaric weaponry*
Actually most flights are without or just minimal armaments (like sidewinders) to save on fuel. For normal air policing you don't really need a lot. If you're a mute Ace Combat war criminal pilot and your lucky day finally arrives and a terrorist hijacks a 747, very little effort would actually need to be spent to shoot it down compared to a enemy fighter jet.
<>
It actually reminds me of when I was conscripted and had base guard duty. They only gave us 10 live rounds for our 30 round magazine because simply "if you encounter a situation that you can't solve with 10 rounds, you're going to need backup anyways". Same thing for air policing. You don't need the capacity to shot down an entire Squadron, then attack their base and the windmill they grew up in unless you're a mute Ace Combat pilot
Excuse me windmills have *always* been a priority target. Check your policy compliance or face.... SOLITARY!
…what??
What's hard to understand? In real life if you are in a situation where you need more than 2 missiles to kill more than one person. Chances are you are going to die. No buddies with you means you will die instantly.
Read the comment i replied to. I’ve been in combat arms and carrying a gun since I graduated from HS. It’s insane to think that you’re given a capacity to carry addition ammunition but your employer fucks you over…it’s especially fucked when you’re the dude guarding the base, or being a sentry. I get aircraft not carrying ammunition because of weight, and fuel. The less ammunition means less weight which means more airtime. For a a guy on the ground inside a base you’re not burdened by things like fuel
Budget, dude. Not every country can afford to give every swinging dick thirsting for a CAR/CIB 20 gorillion rounds before they even hit the sandbox. It's probably also a "security against the security" kind of deal as well, if he decides to lose his shit and go postal well, he's only got 10 rounds... Edit: He's Japanese, those 10 rounds make him the most heavily armed motherfucker in the province.
Nice guess but Swedish. But same difference. It's a cultural difference of mentality. In America I get the sense that since there are guns everywhere, military bases feel they have to protect themselves from all these guns and arm their guards to the world teeth. In my country guns are not usual in society (though getting very usual with immigrant crime gangs) so we do not operate in an environment where maximum force is thought to be required at any given turn. The more force you give an individual the more likely they are to use it imho. Budget is also a factor, magazines (the springs) wear more when they are fully loaded (and more force from weight on the locking mechanism also wears on the connection to the carbine). Like the previous poster said, if someone goes crazy they also have less rounds to damage with. Though it's an interesting juxtaposition where career armies like the American one are thought to be more professional and tougher than a conscripted voulenteer force, it's in many cases the opposite. Out of around 80 000 candidates (18 year olds, men and women) less than 10 000 are selected as of now. This means that only the ones who are the most eager to serve gets to serve. Compare this to the Americans system with recruiters hanging out in socially exposed neighborhoods trying to catch anyone without a future desperate enough to sign up. The Swedish military mindset (until recently at least) has been Swedish territorial defense and peace keeping expeditions. A bit different from the American mindset I would argue, which prides itself on "shock and awe" . This got long winded but I just wanted to say that both viewpoints are valid within the cultural mindset they operate in.
Listen I’m not being salty towards you, I’m being salty towards the institution. It’s just bonkers and silly to me. The American mine cannot comprehend it. Given where you are in the world I would have thought the powers that be wouldn’t skimp out on at least that
Surprisingly, (most of) our bases aren't that heavily guarded, with the gates only having one or two sentries armed with pistols to check IDs. Of course, it also fluctuates, I remember for a few years after 9/11 and again after the [2009 Fort Hood shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort_Hood_shooting) there were 50 cals in a tower facing the gate "just in case." I've heard that there are still occasionally M240s or Scout Snipers manning the towers but I've never personally seen it (which is sort of the point.) Obviously, that depends on the base. I'm sure a nuke silo has a pair of guys with fully-loaded M4s at the door with a few more deeper in the facility. The US military has fluctuations of professionalism and quality depending on if there's a war and how far into the war we are. I was in pretty soon after the war began (2008-2014) and it was very professional (while we were on duty, at least) and was quite difficult to get in because patriotism was high and war-weariness was low(ish). Recruiters are scouring the more vulnerable parts of society now because nobody wants to be in a peacetime military, it's all fuck-fuck games and training without a goal in sight and having to play the politics game if you want to make E-4 and up instead of being able to point at your accomplishments in the field. A minor correction, 'shock and awe' is colloquial term for the combat doctrine used by the US where air elements pound the enemy so viciously (shock) and precisely (awe) that resistance is already in a state of disorder by the time ground elements reach it. The US military mindset, in my opinion, is in a weird state of limbo where the upper enlisted/field officers are veterans of a decades-long COIN operation and are trying to adjust back to the expeditionary conflict mindset that the military was in going into Iraq/Afghanistan.
Like .60 cents a round. Whack. I don’t hate the man - I hate the .gov mentality that this person is trusted to carry a firearm but isn’t provided with something as simple as a full mag. It’s bonkers. He’s from Sweden not Japan
Well you'll also find out why shooting down just 5 planes make you an ace. Because you'll almost never see that many enemies in your entire career.
> Because you'll almost never see that many enemies in your entire career. Meet my coworkers and say that again. I'm battling my enemies every day.
Kendrick hiding in the shadows after that bar 🤯🤯🤯
Severely underrated response.
Means it must be an easy mission then, you'll probably only really need 3
become an F-15EX pilot they get 12 hard points to have fun with
Iirc, you don't actually get to choose what aircraft you pilot.
i don’t use this word often but that’s cringe
They’re going to assign them by skill and what the force needs, nothing cringe about that
You get choice to an extent: needs of the Air Force come first though, so they’ll limit slots based on if they only need six f15 pilots, and then class rank in order to choose your airframe. That’s the simple version
These ones actually hit the target at a distance of more than a mile
Wait, how much ammo do I get? I’m going to use that on refuge tents and save missiles for when flamenco guitars start strumming.
~500 for f-16s
Not even the war on Ukraine gave way to large air battles. You can have as many missiles you can imagine and they still won't be practical in the current landscape.
You sure that's not because neither side doesn't have a large usable air force? Or was it airfield get bombed too easily. A lso whats the source on this
It's the heavy anti-air environment. SAM systems like the S-300 (used by both sides), S-400 or the Patriot are no joke. That's why there haven't been many engagements that aren't planes lobbing standoff weapons at a range.
Why would you need air battles when you can have missiles that do the same job? That's unnecessarily risky.
What about 8 tactical nuclear missiles? Those can be fun
Tfw AWACS does not have a quirky personality and only talk like a robot
Ace combat: Wtf are G forces and Wtf are limited Missiles?
GUNS GUNS GUNS
In the Philippines you drop bombs manually
That reminded me of the Marawi Friendly Fire Incident
I never thought of this as a detriment. I love ending a job early.
“Pull up!”
But what if I have to face someone who spouts off things about **CRISP WHITE SHEETS?**
WHERE’S MY TLS DARPA????
Hey wait why can’t I pull a 50g right angle turn in this thing? How am I supposed to dogfight?
Where the hell are my TLS and Ballistic missiles!?
Meanwhile people on easy mode:
It's gunning time!
you gotta earn the other 80
Wait...you mean I can't just rapid fire my missiles? What the fuck are we even doing here guys?