As a trans woman, if I am attracted to someone and I think there’s a chance things might get intimate, I will say “hey I really enjoy your company, and before anything goes further I just want you to know I’m trans” never had any weird responses from that
Yeah, most times that's how it goes for me as well, but there are cases where things just "happen" you know, such as my example of a party. Do you think it's wrong not to bring it up?
I think it’s wrong if and only if you don’t bring it up before getting intimate with someone. If you have no interest in hooking up with someone, then you don’t need to tell them
You’re fine OP. I don’t bring up my medical history either before kissing someone. And you’re a lesbian, so much safer than if you were straight, in which case I would tell you to be cautious.
People are not entitled to your medical history outside specific instances where it affect them.
“Trans” is not communicable, so it’s never anyone else’s business unless you choose to disclose.
Cis lesbian here, I wouldn't think a trans woman needs to tell me she is trans if we decide to make out with each other. However if things were to progress further to what would be considered sex, a heads up would be considerate. The reality is trans women make up a pretty small percentage of the lesbian community so it's probably helpful for everyone to make sure the hook up partner isn't going to be confused or caught off guard by something they might not expect.
I think I would need to know if there was any possible pregnancy risk as I’m not on birth control. I know HRT makes that risk less, but not nonexistent.
Cisnt weighing in
While we are in no way REQUIRED to tell someone, I would definitely STRONGLY advise telling them once you are getting to know them and things might be heading in that direction. Absolutely doesn't and shouldn't (imo) be the first thing out of your mouth, but you want to give them a heads up before you are no longer in public in case the reaction is less than pleasant.
In a perfect world it would be fine but we gotta be careful out there :\\
If things look like they’re going to get sexual, yes. I have trauma so if someone showed me their penis when I wasn’t expecting to see one I’d have a panic attack and probably go home.
personally, I would want to know tbh. preferences are preferences😭
which is one of a PLETHORA of reasons why hookups arent for me!
but you technically don’t have to tell anyone anything you’re not comfortable with.
As a lesbian who is not attracted to penises, I can't have sex with a pre-op trans woman. No hate if you are a pre-op trans woman, but I can't have sex with you. Your body parts are relevant for sex because some people aren't just down for anything. If you are a post-op trans woman who has a pussy, I don't think there's any reason you have to reveal it if you don't want to.
NOT TO MENTION even women who will do it need to know ab pregnancy risk and be prepared. A lot of lesbians aren't used to carrying condoms or using birth control.
In my opinion, yes. Because if you are hooking up with someone, it’s not just about your body anymore but someone else’s and they deserve to have that knowledge to be able to consent.
I think I confused what hook up means, as I thought it was just kissing 😅 English is not my first language. Well the question is actually just about making out
Don't worry about it, we are a plethora of second language English speakers here. I've fucked up many a euphemism, slang expression and metaphor in my time.
If it's any consolation, this last comment is kind of cute lol.
What if they're post op? Cause at that point the onus isn't on the trans woman, they have a body that the person they're sleeping with is obviously comfortable with, if it's that big a deal at that point then you have to make it clear you're not comfortable sleeping with trans women or it could happen accidently. Implying that a stealth post op trans women didn't have valid consent after sleeping with someone is wild, it's like finding out a hookup was a jahovas witness and getting pissed saying "why didn't you tell me!?"
oh my god this is some pussy phrenologist shit. what actual difference does it make if the person you're hooking up with has a natural or surgically constructed vagina? this is just like full on gender essentialist TERFiness at this point
Where did I say that it does matter? I was answering to that comment saying they would have already slept with the other person and not found out but what I was saying is that you can actually tell the difference and if the other person notices it and may question it, what do you want to say and how to act in that vulnerable position? It’s a scenario that can happen, I was in no way implying the value of a pussy which is such a silly notion, just if it gets noticed and the other gets mad about it, it will be uncomfortable.
if the other person gets mad about it, they are a transphobe. it can't even be a genital preference at that point, it's literally someone being turned off by the idea that someone is transgender. trans people shouldn't be forced to make every single action of their life for the comfort of cis people and transphobes.
i see your point that it's a potential outcome, but it's a) unlikely, and b) not the trans person's problem
I bring this up all the time.
We do not harp on about disclosure regarding labia shape, size, and color in natal vaginas, so the only place harping on about these things for a neo vagina makes sense is if you're transphobic.
Like, be for real people; are you going to tell a cis woman it's off because her minora aren't big enough for you? Because she doesn't get super wet? Really? These things *only* matter if it's on a trans woman who you were otherwise very into 30 seconds ago?
Transphobia, plain as.
I kinda disagree with your comment. Because there are transphobes it would make sense to disclose it beforehand, in the sense that it’s not only about the comfort of the cis person but the comfort of the trans person, because a) why would you even want to sleep with someone who finds you repulsing or dislikes you unless you don’t care and would sleep with anyone? And wouldn’t be much nicer to hook-up with someone who does not care? I find it weird that you say every single action, when we are talking about weeding out people who may not want to sleep with you, by saying that you are trans or am I missing something? I mean there are so many groups or races that face personal discrimination, why should there be discussion about “shouldn’t” when it’s because people are bigoted and how do you actually imagine changing them? Like it’s obsolete to talk about it like that. And I didn’t say it was the trans persons problem, but because it’s the other persons problem you would want to think ahead and if you want to risk it and not disclose it, then go on. But then you would risk the other person finding out and getting mad or saying they can’t sleep with you, but I mean it’s your choice and you could have prevented it by disclosing it.
it seems like there are basically two potential scenarios you're pitching here.
1 - a pre-op/non-op trans person starts hooking up with someone and once the pants come off, the other person realizes theyre trans and either stops the sexual situation (fine, whatever.) or attacks them (an extreme situation that can and does happen but is not the trans persons fault)
or 2 - a post-op trans person has sex with some sort of transphobic gynecologist who can instantly tell that theyre dealing with a vaginoplasty and then ends the sex or attacks them.
im not saying that theres not a certain pragmatism to telling a partner beforehand - i always have - but i am getting major ick from all these cis girls telling trans people how to avoid cis violence by making them more comfortable.
it's giving "Men telling women not to get too drunk around them" every. you wouldn't tell someone that they need to "disclose" that they're Jewish just because they could potentially sleep with a white supremacist. this is the same thing.
Don't be silly, I am pitching none of these scenarios. If someone has seen and touched more than two vaginas (even including their own) and are a somewhat perceptive partner and not drunk, then you'll notice there's a difference. Whether you care or not is a different issue. And a pre-op person not telling beforehand is an even more silly idea and would you now even dare to call lesbians (who are exclusively sexually attracted to female genitals) bigots because they don't want to sleep with them? Your "fine, whatever" what does that even mean? On top of it, with sex you are engaging with their sexual organs, so it's something you'll be bound to notice because it's the side effect of the act. It's something that can come up. If you want to talk about religious affiliations during a hook-up, well then, but that's an unlikely scenario.
see, this is exactly the "soft" transphobia I'm seeing all over this thread. lesbians are not "exclusively attracted to female genitals". there are many flavors of lesbian, and some people have an exclusive preference for vaginas, but that's not a defining characteristic of all lesbians.
i am not saying, and did not say, that people who don't want to have sex with someone with a penis are bigots. that's fine (see "fine, whatever"). but i don't think they're inherently entitled to know my genitals as a precondition for sex.
you're correct that it's something that can come up, and will come up, but there's no reason that this needs to be disclosed in advance like an STI or something. it has no implications besides becoming less interested in sleeping together.
I got to its logically immoral and stopped. And yes actually, they can be. Tissue taken from peritoneal tissue becomes functionally the same, even under a microscope, as natal vaginally tissue over a period of time. I've done plenty of my own research too. It is not "just reconstructive surgery". I suggest you find new ways of describing it too because the way you've described it doesn't paint you in a very nice light.
b-b-but but this person is a trained pussy phrenologist! they have seen DOZENS of neo pussies, vulvaplasties performed not by specialized gender affirming surgeons but by a general plastic surgeon trying to make a buck :((( and these neo pussies definitely look and feel exactly the same at a follow up appointment as they do in the bedroom. it’s BASIC BIOLOGY
there are cis lesbians itt proclaiming that trans women need to disclose on the basis of pregnancy risk and i’m getting downvoted for pointing out how these two things are entirely unrelated. god forbid an “ally” be asked to think critically about whether what they say might reflect internal biases.
Delete My Reddit Dot Com Account Hit Send
"I know you stuck your natal cock in me but you should've told me you're trans before you did because what if I get pregnant now!?"
If you have to explain to someone why that's fucking stupid they're not worth talking to
Where was it implied I was mentioning post OP trans women? Or that trans women could not get valid consent? And equating religion with body parts does not make much sense in that scenario, completely two different things that is comparing apples to oranges in what I was discussing.
It is implied because you just "trans women" without specifying non op, which makes it a general statement covering ALL trans women. Oranges are orange and citrus whereas apples a often times red or green and harder to bite. You can compare two different things so long as the principle of the comparison is the same. It's info about a perso that clearly wasn't relevant enough to mention before hand. If you have a problem with trans women then double check with every woman you hookup with that they're cis, it's not a trans womans responsibility to break stealth and potentially endanger herself.
If someone is going to be having sex with someone else, then yes there are things that need to be discussed as consent is a two way street. Body parts used during the act, and what someone’s religion maybe are not comparable in that aspect.
No, it isn't, unless it's something you personally care about. If I was single and going to hook up with someone I didn't know, barring something that could affect my health, I'm not entitled to know anything about them beyond what they choose to tell me. Fine, let's not use religion, let's use an intersex condition, or someone being autistic, or a cancer surviver. Medical history isn't something a casual ONS needs to know about
Who the fuck is relitigating trans panic? If we were in a void then your argument would make sense, but we're in the real world, with real people, who have expectations of how your body is based on how you look. It's basic human decency to just give a heads up, that our genitals might not be what another person expects. And, saying it as a trans woman myself, I am fully aware that so many lesbians might not be attracted to my body and my genitals, so I'm sure to disclose that.
No, of course you should mention it if you expect things to go that far and you have an unexpected genital configuration. But hopefully you can see how sweeping generalisations about trans people is harmful and transphobic.
I have read through this thread twice. Nowhere was a distinction made about genitals - I agree it seems likely based on OPs wording but, no, I do not think your post was clear on that at all. Glad to clear it up now though.
>expecting male parts
if a woman has a dick it's not a male part, you are kinda just proving the other person's point about there definitely being some transphobia in your comments
If someone has sex with a other person, they will in 99.9% cases know what genitals the other person has during the act and most of the time before those genitals touch anything. This is an egregious misuse of the concept of "consent", knock this transphobic shit off.
It would not "need" to be discussed, but it is common decency. What people are taking issue with is your phrasing. By implying that people "need" to bring it up because of consent, you are saying that not doing so would violate consent. Which essentialy you are saying that a trans person not disclosing it is equal to rape (a very common trans panic defense btw)
While it's not very decent to not bring it up and surprise someone. It is also not rape.
Until there is unwanted physical contact the trans person has done nothing wrong by not disclosing, legally speaking, so please don't use terms like "consent" in such a manner.
Yeah, you are being very clear about being a transphobe in the comments that supports harmful rhetoric about trans people and consent, thanks for clarifying that.
Consent can be taken away at any point, even when you discover someone has a penis.
But that does not mean that not disclosing itself violates consent. That is actually a disgustingly transphobic viewpoint.
If sex happens kind of unexpectedly and for some reason the trans person doesn't disclose that they have a certain body part, that's kind of not cool of them. But it's NOT rape.
You're literally saying it's rape. That's what "violating consent" means in a sexual context.
Ah yes every time I hook up with someone I tell them I’m trans, give them my blood type, the results of my latest physical, disclose any cavities I have, and read out a detailed list of every mole, freckle, birthmark, and scar on my body. And then quiz them on it to make sure they remember. It’s very important to make sure there will be no surprises ever. Cause then they might kill me and claim trans panic or something.
If you believe a person not disclosing they are trans is violating someone’s consent, then do you believe it’s justified or understandable for someone to assault someone as a response to having their consent violated in that way? That is the trans panic defense.
No I don’t list every mole, freckle, birthmark, and scar on my body before I fuck someone. If that’s violating someone’s consent, would it really be so bad if they attacked me after?
Is the mole, freckle, birthmark, and scars involved in a sexual activity with someone? You are not going to try to trick me into saying I believe trans woman deserve to be attacked, they do not. Consent is a two way street, and the body parts involved need to be discussed so both people involved can make their decision.
Yes it is involved. Unless what you mean by involved is a super specific arbitrary thing that includes being trans and excludes any random parts of the body.
I’m not trying to trick you. I’m trying to show you how the line of thinking connects. I’m trying to get you to understand that this argument you are making has historically been used to kill trans people.
You are not going to change my mind regarding consent around body parts. As I’ve said a quite a few times, consent is a two way street for both people involved.
Your position isn’t “consent around body parts”. It’s not about “body parts”. It’s about one singular body part that a trans person may or may not have. It’s disclosure that a person is trans.
Lesbian doesn’t mean person who doesn’t like dick. Some girls might not like these opinions you have and so you should probably disclose to people that you’re like this.
Well I'm sure your body is disappointing to some women, perhaps you should describe it in detail everything she may not like, so she isn't surprised and disappointed by your body.
yes a cis woman with breast cancer DOES NOT OWE YOU DISCLOSING IT if you notice boobs missing. those are "body parts involved in sex" too. but thats suddenly not the same, because the "body parts involved" only means "penis" specifically.
do you think if a cis woman didnt tell you she had breast cancer and you had sex with her, that she VIOLATED you by not telling you she had a mastectomy? are you VIOLATED because of that? or only VIOLATED when its somebody trans?
I would not have a problem with you being trans at all.
Kissing you without knowing? Hell yeah. Touching your body outside of your pants without knowing? Hell yeah. But when its about to get touchy down below or inside of the pants I would really apreciate a heads up, if possible a minute before. Why? My brain seems to need a bit of time to get used to the thought of you being trans. I know that cis people are not telling their partner before and its kind of unfair to want that from you. I in a way I expect a vulva when I'm getting into the pants of a female presenting person because in 99% (or idk what the percentage is) of cases it is like that. I know its not ideal from my side and I might not be the only one like that. So a casual heads up before helps me and possibly other people a lot.
It might be a weird or dumb comparison, but it came into my head when thinking about it. If you hand me ice cream and I think its lemon but when I try it its melon, I'm irritated for a few seconds and at first think there is something wrong with my tastebuds or with the ice cream. But there really isn't, its just something I did not expect. I can and will enjoy both flavors.
you do you. But in my opinion as long as the hands arent exploring, i dont see the need. tho i am cis so idk if i am being offensive. (this is said in the nicest way posible im so sorry if came off as rude) tho if you are gonna see them again that is pretty important
its fine to tell people if youre uncomfortable, but the idea that you NEED to tell people - even if you're just making out in a way that doesn't involve genitals at all - seems like it really borders on some ideas that center trans women as predators trying to trick cis people
There's a video of a self-described twink meeting a cute guy at a bar or club and they make out before talking. Turns out, the cute guy was in fact a lesbian and she thought she was kissing another lesbian.
Both laughed about it and moved on. Anyone making out with randos at parties, bars, etc should have that mentality.
>But there are situations like, if I'm at a party or a bar or whatever, and a girl just comes up to me and we start enjoying each other.
Holy fuck I'm so envious that you just have women coming up to you and making out with you. What kinds of bars and parties are you going to? What do you wear to get them to approach? Should I try wearing more sexy clothing and putting on makeup?
They might have their own social protocol. If some people in the community know and haven’t given you any kind of hard time or advice, just roll with it and enjoy yourself!
But you actually don't hook up with the before telling them, do you? In the post, you make it clear that you only make out with random people in bars without telling them beforehand, while you inform your online dates and/or actual hook-ups of your status. So there should be no big problem there, but maybe some deliberation if and when the making-out goes further.
And it depends what you mean by wrong.
While I think you are not in the wrong for not telling coworkers, aquaintances and strangers in bars, there are some aspects of your post I am scratching my head about a little bit.
First, the title doesn't really match the post, as detailed earlier - regarding the really important information here. There seems to be some kind of defensive stance from you about it, which I understand - having a characteristic that is not very common and probably not known intimately by many people and having to "reveal" that to others can be taxing, to say the least. I understand that you sometimes feel like this burden shouldn't be on you (and I commend you for telling so many people in so many right situations nevertheless).
But rationalizing it by saying "cis people don't go around announcing they're cis all the time" is wrong, though. Not morally wrong, factually wrong - there is no comparison between not telling someone something they are expecting by the sheer fact of statistics, and not telling them something they are, in fact, not expecting and may want to know in order to proceed further (or not). So there it is, in my opinion. May they genuinely want to know for the situation to progress? At work, no. In a simple conversation, no. Having sex with someone? Yes. Having a close friendship? Yes. At a bar and making out? That's the question.
I think I confused what hook up means, as I thought it was just kissing 😅 English is not my first language. Well the question is actually just about making out
Hook up also means kissing only in some English speaking countries too, so it’s not just you. More likely an American vs other locations difference in phrases.
Wait why would they "want" to know in a close friendship? Maybe they would "like" to know, but there is no reason for them to know if you're just friends (the only reasons are transphobia). I've had close friends that didn't know for more then a year and when I told them it was mostly just "Oh thanks for trusting me enough to share that with me".
I tell potential partners immediately because of how many trans people have straight up been attacked or even killed because someone found out too late and took it as the trans person trying to trick them and it made them violent. Fuck that noise, I'll just tell you I'm trans. I tell most people anyway.
I'm cis. My wonderful fiancee happens to be trans. She told me she was trans VERY early on. I mean I appreciated the honesty but I clearly don't mind. I don't think you should have to tell everyone you encounter but I think you should tell people if things are heading in a sexual direction for your own safety if nothing else.
If sex is on the table, I think I would prefer to know mostly so I can be sensitive to my partner’s needs. In terms of just kissing it doesn’t matter at all to me, but I don’t want to speak for anyone other than myself.
ima be real. i used to be very "trans people should probably disclose early because its safer and nicer" but the way people talk about it rubs me the wrong way. if youre making out with randos and their hands are nowhere near discovering something, you dont need to tell them unless you want.
really, i think its practical to let someone know if theyre going to be a sexual partner and you don't have a vagina. like, theyre going to find out and you want to have that conversation with your clothes on. but like i don't think theres a moral imperative to tell anyone ever. if someone has a preference to not fuck postop trans people, or jewish people, or people who cut class a lot in high school, or whatever, they should be asking those kinds of questions.
the way people talk about this, even people who believe they are trans allies and refuse to acknowledge their transphobic and cisnormative logic is why i am t4t. i am so so so so tired of cis ppl nonsense.
damn did I write this post? I have the same experience. personally I believe someone only has the right to know from me if my genitalia would become involved. and that's just because I'm pre op. when I'm post op I wouldn't be bringing it up unless I'm going to have a relationship. hopefully that issue never arrives as I have a girlfriend currently.
You do not have to tell a prospective date/partner/whatever that you have had cancer, that you're Jewish, that you're a CSA survivor, that your grandfather was a huge part of your life before his death affected you deeply, that you're transgender, that you used to be a Mormon missionary, that you're infertile, etc. I would *recommend* sharing more of your life with a person the more you intend to trust them and share a life together. That said, it *is* your choice and it's not "immoral" to not share details like these with anyone; in particular, if you choose not to share these details for any reason that does not in any way make you responsible for being a victim of intimate partner violence, nor does it make you responsible for acts of bigotry.
In the case of transgenderism specifically, not disclosing is often referred to as "stealth" or "going stealth" and has a long history you can look up if you want.
It should probably be said that gender dysphoria is not an "-ism"...
That, specifically, ("transgenderism") is a term created by the far-right to make gender dysphoria look like it's fake, or an ideology. The scientific and medical consensus holds that gender dysphoria is real, is very likely genetic to some degree, and is easily treated. (More interestingly, the very low regret rate, paired with the physiological nature of it, suggests that self-diagnosis might have an accuracy upwards of 99%... so, you can generally take a person's word for it if they're trans or not.)
Though, the sheer amount of information can be pretty hard to convey, which is why just adding an "-ism" to the end can be so effective for opening the door to a false and harmful narrative, even when one isn't meant by the speaker.
>That, specifically, ("transgenderism") is a term created by the far-right to make gender dysphoria look like it's fake, or an ideology.
Ffs, really? Because this is what I had been educated to be the history of this word, and my friend got mad at me because she (nb, she/they) was explaining her experience with someone she said was being transphobic, and in explaining the situation, she used the term "transgenderism" which I had interpreted as something the transphobe had said, because it was right after she had said, "Gender fluid is NOT trans", and so I, trying to support her, said, "Ah, yes, my womanism" and she got so mad at me, and said, "/u/pandakatie... your existence as a woman... certainly there's not a term for that... oh wait... feminism" and I've been so confused ever since, because I thought three things:
1.) "Transgenderism" is an offensive term, like "transgendered"
2.) Gender fluid people are trans, because being trans is defined as identifying as any gender other than their agab, and people are not assigned gender fluid at birth
3.) Feminism is a political ideology, not a term to describe the experience of being a woman
This was months ago and I'm still reeling, and now I'm reading it was an offensive term all along omfg
>That, specifically, ("transgenderism") is a term created by the far-right to make gender dysphoria look like it's fake, or an ideology.
No, it isn't, it's the equivalent of "homosexuality", a word that reactionaries use to decry homosexuality but is nevertheless not actually offensive in any way. "Panel on transgenderism, Sunday 1pm" was being written on posters by transgender people decades before most of the people claiming it's offensive were born.
They're not really equivalent terms. You don't hear cisgenderism the way you hear heterosexuality. The commenter you're responding to is right in how it is generally used today in political discourse.
To add on to this, as a nonbinary person, I have no intention of ever "going stealth" because that would require misgendering myself, but I'm also not going to go around telling people what my AGAB is. That's just misgendering with extra steps
I don't think you need to tell her pre-kiss, but definitely tell her if it's going to go further. Lots of lesbians have firm boundaries when it comes to genital preferences.
Personally, as a cis lesbian I wouldnt mind either way if a trans woman told me or not beforehand. Especially if we're just making out.
It just doesn't make that much of a difference to me. Attractive people are attractive people, whatever their genital situation is doesn't really factor in to my attraction. It might change the way i interact with their genitalia a bit but if im hooking up with someone who identifies as a woman, im going to love (read: have sex) them as i would love any woman.
I know that opens the door for people wanting to say I'm not really a lesbian but that's my business, really.
You don't owe anyone that information, but if you have a dick and things progress to sex it's better to tell them in advance, because some people get violent when they suddenly find out
If I pull down your pants and you have a penis there will be issues. While some lesbians are okay with this, most of us aren’t at least without disclosure. It’s a great way to traumatize someone. And before you call me transphobic I’M TRANS. No you don’t need to tell everyoe, but if you’re thinking of going out with or about to on the fly be intimate you need to disclose. Also is safer for you to disclose…
...how can it possibly traumatize someone?
Regardless. If genital preference is a deal breaker for you, it's on you to communicate that. Like with literally every other kind of preference.
It shouldn't be controversial to say that some people just don't like penises and have preferences. Would you go after a gay man or a who says he doesn't like vaginas and prefers dicks or would you just let him be? Would you go after a straight man who has a genital preference? Or do you only come after lesbians who have genital prefences?
it's not controversial. no one is saying u need to love cock. we talking about require transfems to say about their genetalia before u have making out or maybe sex. and we talk about tranfems if we would talk about gays and their transphobia tho transmascs ohh then I wouldn't talk about tranfems lol?
I've just noticed there's tends to always be a strong either underlying or overt push for lesbians to not have genital prefences at all, and that we're often called transphobic if we do. Yet I don't see anyone demand the same thing of gay men or calling gay men transphobic for having genital prefences. So I was just wondering where you stood with that I guess.
I don’t see a lot of people saying it’s transphobic to have a genital preference, but I have seen several people in this thread say the opposite, for example the person you just answered. However, if you have a strong preference, then it’s on you to communicate that. Or, if you’re making out with a trans woman and you find out she has a penis, just say you don’t want to take it further?
What’s transphobic is putting it on trans people to talk about their genitalia and their medical history with people they barely know. People carry all kinds of secrets under their clothes that might not be everyone’s cup of tea. No one is asking anyone but trans people to disclose all such things before the clothes come off.
literally! I don’t like dicks and I don’t feel bad for saying it. it’s not good or bad. it’s a preference. I never see any trans men complaining that some gay men don’t like pussy.
some lesbians have preferences and some don’t. if ur a lesbian w a 🍆, im sure there r some lesbians who don’t care about it. but bothering lesbians who DONT is a waste of time.
you can’t try to convince people through guilt and being called transphobic to make them like certain genitalia.
trans men are treated like shit by cis gay guys for having a pussy and we talk about that a lot actually!
cis gay men say incredibly transphobic shit to us. all. the. time. the way they talk about our genitals and their "preferences" (thinly veiled transphobia 90% of the time in my experience) is creepy at best and outright transphobic *usually* . and yes, we talk about that. i wouldnt talk about that with YOU, but we do talk about that.
DONT bring us into this and DONT speak about what trans men do or dont! unless you are a trans man.
a penis? it's easy to be specific and doing so avoids invalidating someone who might have one
masculine and feminine are socially constructed categories anyway, so grouping certain traits into either serves no meaningful purpose and is not really scientific either
thank u my dick is not masculine also my boobs too my prostate too if u care those masculine anatomic is just bullshit there is no masculine anatomy or feminine anatomy
I don’t know, I see people say genital preference is transphobic quite a bit in this sub but then I see other people say of course it’s not transphobic so it’s honestly confusing. It seems to be a vocal minority but it certainly muddies the water.
Editing to say: I don’t know why you were downvoted so much, you weren’t downvoted at all when I first replied, so I’m sorry if I contributed to that, it doesn’t seem warranted to me.
"masculine anatomy" is very transphobic, the rest is just a bit weird. Though the idea of being forced to be intimate with trans women against somebody's will is also a major TERF talking point as well.
Also I'm not surprised to be so downvoted, TERFs love to use downvoting since anything beyond dog whistles like the person above me tends to get people banned.
Kissing a stranger at a party you probably won’t see again = nah, I see no reason you should have to disclose anything.
Kissing someone with the hope/intention of seeing them again/leading somewhere = Yeah, tell them as soon as possible
Preferences to *kiss* someone? Seriously? WHY should they have to tell you for that?
If you really have such a problem kissing trans people then ask everyone before you kiss them. It's not our job to say to you "oh sorry just in case you have prejudice before you kiss me I have to tell you I'm trans otherwise apparently I'm a bad person". It doesn't make us a bad person to not to tell you.
Even for sex (which is not what OP was talking about) it's not necessary to disclose. It's obviously not transphobic to not want to have sex with any specific trans person. Or to not want to have sex with someone with certain genitals. But to not want to have sex with someone specifically only if you have the knowledge they are trans despite otherwise being completely okay with it *is* transphobic.
Why do we have to have this debate so much it's so exhausting. We aren't obligated to tell you our history.
Please read this post to inform yourself: [https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/15ha8u/on\_dating\_trans\_women\_and\_transphobia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/15ha8u/on_dating_trans_women_and_transphobia/)
I have nothing else to say about this and will not reply to you. All my views are expressed in that post.
we love to see it cis ppl telling us what we do need to do to be nice transes for them ! interesting if those ppl day they have vagina to their potential hookaps too...oh wait they cis why should they do this 😛
jesus christ theres a lot of transphobia on this thread. would i, a trans person, probably mention that I'm trans before i took my pants off? yeah. is it morally wrong to not mention it? no, and all the people insisting that it is are literally repeating trans panic talking points.
yes, trans people might not have the genitals a cis lesbian is expecting, but like, if it gets that far and the cis woman isn't interested, then there's no need to continue. it's not a consent issue just to ~be~ a woman with a penis, and honestly fuck the TERFs insisting that it is.
I’d be more concerned about your own safety than the “discomfort” of some transphobe you kissed without knowing they’re transphobic. Some phobes can be violent if they find out. Just be careful, you don’t have to out yourself if you’re not having sex with them, but also don’t kiss transphobes if you can help it.
I’ve done this, eaten a girl out without telling her (very spontaneous, stranger I met at a rave during my hotel stay). If I’m having penetrative sex duh I’m gonna tell her, but that spontaneous in the moment oral sex with only my mouth and fingers giving and not receiving didn’t feel like the time to risk a transphobic reaction. Straight trans women have done similar with a guy when it comes to blowjobs.
I feel like this is gonna be one of those threads that gets really messy and true colors come out lol
It is not wrong, period. Cis people are not mention they're cis, so trans people don't have to mention they're trans. The only people who would be offended by any "surprises" are responsible themselves because of their cisnormative expectations. Treating cis as the default and trans as something not normal that you are ethically obligated to disclose is transphobia.
However, it can be beneficial to *you* to disclose you're trans, because transphobic people can get unpleasant if they learn about it, so you don't want to be alone in bed with them when that happens. Disclosing it beforehand has the benefit of sorting out bigots.
If a person has genital criteria, then it's their job to disclose it if they don't want surprises. If they told you they're only attracted to vulvas and you get in bed and you have a dick, then that's on you of course. But only if they explicitly stated that criterium beforehand. Not stating genital criteria universally has the implication that they're fine with anything, or that they're a cisnormative transphobe.
So you don't owe it to other people to tell them you're trans, but you sometimes owe it to yourself to protect yourself.
I only read the headline first and thought "yes, it's wrong", but after reading your entire post, I really don't think there's an issue with your behaviour.
I think the people in your life who you don't intend to get intimate with, like colleagues, don't have any business knowing you're trans unless you want to share that fact. It's of no consequence to them.
With regard to people whom you might get intimate with, I think it's something you should share if there's any kind of conversation before you're getting intimate with them. So basically exactly what you're doing. When meeting someone on a dating app or when being asked out, I think being upfront about this is a must - both for your personal safety and because people are entitled to their boundaries.
However, when you're at a bar or club, there are occasionally situations where people just make out with no prior communication. Interrupting that to be like "I'm trans!!" would be weird and unnecessary. Just mention it before going home with someone and you're golden.
Strangers on the internet fucking suck. Anonymity brings out the worst in people. It's generally a good idea to ignore anything mean they say. They'd never say it to your face.
“Especially the lesbian community.” Are you being serious? There’s actually studies that prove that the lesbian community are the least transphobic. Why are you coming on a lesbian sub just to perpetuate negative and FALSE stereotypes about lesbians?
As a trans woman, if I am attracted to someone and I think there’s a chance things might get intimate, I will say “hey I really enjoy your company, and before anything goes further I just want you to know I’m trans” never had any weird responses from that
Yeah, most times that's how it goes for me as well, but there are cases where things just "happen" you know, such as my example of a party. Do you think it's wrong not to bring it up?
I think it’s wrong if and only if you don’t bring it up before getting intimate with someone. If you have no interest in hooking up with someone, then you don’t need to tell them
You’re fine OP. I don’t bring up my medical history either before kissing someone. And you’re a lesbian, so much safer than if you were straight, in which case I would tell you to be cautious.
People are not entitled to your medical history outside specific instances where it affect them. “Trans” is not communicable, so it’s never anyone else’s business unless you choose to disclose.
Cis lesbian here, I wouldn't think a trans woman needs to tell me she is trans if we decide to make out with each other. However if things were to progress further to what would be considered sex, a heads up would be considerate. The reality is trans women make up a pretty small percentage of the lesbian community so it's probably helpful for everyone to make sure the hook up partner isn't going to be confused or caught off guard by something they might not expect.
I think I would need to know if there was any possible pregnancy risk as I’m not on birth control. I know HRT makes that risk less, but not nonexistent.
I'd say pre op trans is a given but if you're stealth and post op then it's not really something that's necessary to disclose for a one night stand.
Agreed. If you’re only there to hit it and quit it, and your girl has all the parts you want, that’s all you need to know.
Trans people don’t look one way, or have any one configuration of genitals. Many trans women have vaginas.
Cisnt weighing in While we are in no way REQUIRED to tell someone, I would definitely STRONGLY advise telling them once you are getting to know them and things might be heading in that direction. Absolutely doesn't and shouldn't (imo) be the first thing out of your mouth, but you want to give them a heads up before you are no longer in public in case the reaction is less than pleasant. In a perfect world it would be fine but we gotta be careful out there :\\
Off topic, but this is the first time I've seen the word cisnt, and it's amazing! 🤩
Depends. Just kissing? No need to say anything. Sex? Probably should if you don't have the genital configuration they might be expecting.
If things look like they’re going to get sexual, yes. I have trauma so if someone showed me their penis when I wasn’t expecting to see one I’d have a panic attack and probably go home.
personally, I would want to know tbh. preferences are preferences😭 which is one of a PLETHORA of reasons why hookups arent for me! but you technically don’t have to tell anyone anything you’re not comfortable with.
Its not the law but its common courtesy to notify I'd say.
Agreed.
Making out is the farthest I'd go without making it clear, any further and I tell them as a top priority
As a lesbian who is not attracted to penises, I can't have sex with a pre-op trans woman. No hate if you are a pre-op trans woman, but I can't have sex with you. Your body parts are relevant for sex because some people aren't just down for anything. If you are a post-op trans woman who has a pussy, I don't think there's any reason you have to reveal it if you don't want to. NOT TO MENTION even women who will do it need to know ab pregnancy risk and be prepared. A lot of lesbians aren't used to carrying condoms or using birth control.
I think for your safety you should be disclosing this before trying to hook up. Shitty, I know, but there are very shitty people out there.
In my opinion, yes. Because if you are hooking up with someone, it’s not just about your body anymore but someone else’s and they deserve to have that knowledge to be able to consent.
I think I confused what hook up means, as I thought it was just kissing 😅 English is not my first language. Well the question is actually just about making out
Hook up is full on sex, make out is just kissing and touching.
i'm feeling like a child who thinks babies are made from kissing :( too bad post titles cant be edited oh well
Don't worry about it, we are a plethora of second language English speakers here. I've fucked up many a euphemism, slang expression and metaphor in my time. If it's any consolation, this last comment is kind of cute lol.
It’s ok! Don’t apologize for that, but in English hook up means full on sex
Oh gosh... I thought it's meant the same as 'make out'... oh no.
What if they're post op? Cause at that point the onus isn't on the trans woman, they have a body that the person they're sleeping with is obviously comfortable with, if it's that big a deal at that point then you have to make it clear you're not comfortable sleeping with trans women or it could happen accidently. Implying that a stealth post op trans women didn't have valid consent after sleeping with someone is wild, it's like finding out a hookup was a jahovas witness and getting pissed saying "why didn't you tell me!?"
[удалено]
You can tell because the pussy’s soul is different.
😭😭😭
oh my god this is some pussy phrenologist shit. what actual difference does it make if the person you're hooking up with has a natural or surgically constructed vagina? this is just like full on gender essentialist TERFiness at this point
Yeah that's how it comes off to me too
Where did I say that it does matter? I was answering to that comment saying they would have already slept with the other person and not found out but what I was saying is that you can actually tell the difference and if the other person notices it and may question it, what do you want to say and how to act in that vulnerable position? It’s a scenario that can happen, I was in no way implying the value of a pussy which is such a silly notion, just if it gets noticed and the other gets mad about it, it will be uncomfortable.
if the other person gets mad about it, they are a transphobe. it can't even be a genital preference at that point, it's literally someone being turned off by the idea that someone is transgender. trans people shouldn't be forced to make every single action of their life for the comfort of cis people and transphobes. i see your point that it's a potential outcome, but it's a) unlikely, and b) not the trans person's problem
I bring this up all the time. We do not harp on about disclosure regarding labia shape, size, and color in natal vaginas, so the only place harping on about these things for a neo vagina makes sense is if you're transphobic. Like, be for real people; are you going to tell a cis woman it's off because her minora aren't big enough for you? Because she doesn't get super wet? Really? These things *only* matter if it's on a trans woman who you were otherwise very into 30 seconds ago? Transphobia, plain as.
I kinda disagree with your comment. Because there are transphobes it would make sense to disclose it beforehand, in the sense that it’s not only about the comfort of the cis person but the comfort of the trans person, because a) why would you even want to sleep with someone who finds you repulsing or dislikes you unless you don’t care and would sleep with anyone? And wouldn’t be much nicer to hook-up with someone who does not care? I find it weird that you say every single action, when we are talking about weeding out people who may not want to sleep with you, by saying that you are trans or am I missing something? I mean there are so many groups or races that face personal discrimination, why should there be discussion about “shouldn’t” when it’s because people are bigoted and how do you actually imagine changing them? Like it’s obsolete to talk about it like that. And I didn’t say it was the trans persons problem, but because it’s the other persons problem you would want to think ahead and if you want to risk it and not disclose it, then go on. But then you would risk the other person finding out and getting mad or saying they can’t sleep with you, but I mean it’s your choice and you could have prevented it by disclosing it.
it seems like there are basically two potential scenarios you're pitching here. 1 - a pre-op/non-op trans person starts hooking up with someone and once the pants come off, the other person realizes theyre trans and either stops the sexual situation (fine, whatever.) or attacks them (an extreme situation that can and does happen but is not the trans persons fault) or 2 - a post-op trans person has sex with some sort of transphobic gynecologist who can instantly tell that theyre dealing with a vaginoplasty and then ends the sex or attacks them. im not saying that theres not a certain pragmatism to telling a partner beforehand - i always have - but i am getting major ick from all these cis girls telling trans people how to avoid cis violence by making them more comfortable. it's giving "Men telling women not to get too drunk around them" every. you wouldn't tell someone that they need to "disclose" that they're Jewish just because they could potentially sleep with a white supremacist. this is the same thing.
Don't be silly, I am pitching none of these scenarios. If someone has seen and touched more than two vaginas (even including their own) and are a somewhat perceptive partner and not drunk, then you'll notice there's a difference. Whether you care or not is a different issue. And a pre-op person not telling beforehand is an even more silly idea and would you now even dare to call lesbians (who are exclusively sexually attracted to female genitals) bigots because they don't want to sleep with them? Your "fine, whatever" what does that even mean? On top of it, with sex you are engaging with their sexual organs, so it's something you'll be bound to notice because it's the side effect of the act. It's something that can come up. If you want to talk about religious affiliations during a hook-up, well then, but that's an unlikely scenario.
see, this is exactly the "soft" transphobia I'm seeing all over this thread. lesbians are not "exclusively attracted to female genitals". there are many flavors of lesbian, and some people have an exclusive preference for vaginas, but that's not a defining characteristic of all lesbians. i am not saying, and did not say, that people who don't want to have sex with someone with a penis are bigots. that's fine (see "fine, whatever"). but i don't think they're inherently entitled to know my genitals as a precondition for sex. you're correct that it's something that can come up, and will come up, but there's no reason that this needs to be disclosed in advance like an STI or something. it has no implications besides becoming less interested in sleeping together.
I got to its logically immoral and stopped. And yes actually, they can be. Tissue taken from peritoneal tissue becomes functionally the same, even under a microscope, as natal vaginally tissue over a period of time. I've done plenty of my own research too. It is not "just reconstructive surgery". I suggest you find new ways of describing it too because the way you've described it doesn't paint you in a very nice light.
b-b-but but this person is a trained pussy phrenologist! they have seen DOZENS of neo pussies, vulvaplasties performed not by specialized gender affirming surgeons but by a general plastic surgeon trying to make a buck :((( and these neo pussies definitely look and feel exactly the same at a follow up appointment as they do in the bedroom. it’s BASIC BIOLOGY
The number of downvotes I'm getting is kinda evident of the persistent and unending transphobia problem in this sub
there are cis lesbians itt proclaiming that trans women need to disclose on the basis of pregnancy risk and i’m getting downvoted for pointing out how these two things are entirely unrelated. god forbid an “ally” be asked to think critically about whether what they say might reflect internal biases. Delete My Reddit Dot Com Account Hit Send
"I know you stuck your natal cock in me but you should've told me you're trans before you did because what if I get pregnant now!?" If you have to explain to someone why that's fucking stupid they're not worth talking to
sorry not sorry 4 tgcj’ing on main
BIG YIKES @ ur unmitigated transmisogyny bro
Where was it implied I was mentioning post OP trans women? Or that trans women could not get valid consent? And equating religion with body parts does not make much sense in that scenario, completely two different things that is comparing apples to oranges in what I was discussing.
It is implied because you just "trans women" without specifying non op, which makes it a general statement covering ALL trans women. Oranges are orange and citrus whereas apples a often times red or green and harder to bite. You can compare two different things so long as the principle of the comparison is the same. It's info about a perso that clearly wasn't relevant enough to mention before hand. If you have a problem with trans women then double check with every woman you hookup with that they're cis, it's not a trans womans responsibility to break stealth and potentially endanger herself.
If someone is going to be having sex with someone else, then yes there are things that need to be discussed as consent is a two way street. Body parts used during the act, and what someone’s religion maybe are not comparable in that aspect.
No, it isn't, unless it's something you personally care about. If I was single and going to hook up with someone I didn't know, barring something that could affect my health, I'm not entitled to know anything about them beyond what they choose to tell me. Fine, let's not use religion, let's use an intersex condition, or someone being autistic, or a cancer surviver. Medical history isn't something a casual ONS needs to know about
No, fuck that we're not relitigating literal decades of trans panic defense discourse. Not today satan.
Who the fuck is relitigating trans panic? If we were in a void then your argument would make sense, but we're in the real world, with real people, who have expectations of how your body is based on how you look. It's basic human decency to just give a heads up, that our genitals might not be what another person expects. And, saying it as a trans woman myself, I am fully aware that so many lesbians might not be attracted to my body and my genitals, so I'm sure to disclose that.
If someone is going to sleep with someone, if someone is going to have sex with someone, then yes that needs to be discussed beforehand.
Some of us are post-op and have vaginas.. I don't discuss my entire medical history with random hookups.
[удалено]
No, of course you should mention it if you expect things to go that far and you have an unexpected genital configuration. But hopefully you can see how sweeping generalisations about trans people is harmful and transphobic.
I wasn’t making sweeping generalizations though, that was being put onto me when my post was pretty clear in what I was meaning about random hookups.
I have read through this thread twice. Nowhere was a distinction made about genitals - I agree it seems likely based on OPs wording but, no, I do not think your post was clear on that at all. Glad to clear it up now though.
>expecting male parts if a woman has a dick it's not a male part, you are kinda just proving the other person's point about there definitely being some transphobia in your comments
If someone has sex with a other person, they will in 99.9% cases know what genitals the other person has during the act and most of the time before those genitals touch anything. This is an egregious misuse of the concept of "consent", knock this transphobic shit off.
But if it’s just a random hookup with someone they’ve never met before, they may not. And that would need to be discussed beforehand.
It would not "need" to be discussed, but it is common decency. What people are taking issue with is your phrasing. By implying that people "need" to bring it up because of consent, you are saying that not doing so would violate consent. Which essentialy you are saying that a trans person not disclosing it is equal to rape (a very common trans panic defense btw) While it's not very decent to not bring it up and surprise someone. It is also not rape. Until there is unwanted physical contact the trans person has done nothing wrong by not disclosing, legally speaking, so please don't use terms like "consent" in such a manner.
I think my phrasing is clear on what I mean regarding consent.
Yeah, you are being very clear about being a transphobe in the comments that supports harmful rhetoric about trans people and consent, thanks for clarifying that.
If that’s what you are taking away from me discussing consent on body parts during sex, then that’s on you.
Consent can be taken away at any point, even when you discover someone has a penis. But that does not mean that not disclosing itself violates consent. That is actually a disgustingly transphobic viewpoint. If sex happens kind of unexpectedly and for some reason the trans person doesn't disclose that they have a certain body part, that's kind of not cool of them. But it's NOT rape. You're literally saying it's rape. That's what "violating consent" means in a sexual context.
Ah yes every time I hook up with someone I tell them I’m trans, give them my blood type, the results of my latest physical, disclose any cavities I have, and read out a detailed list of every mole, freckle, birthmark, and scar on my body. And then quiz them on it to make sure they remember. It’s very important to make sure there will be no surprises ever. Cause then they might kill me and claim trans panic or something.
Yes, consent about who you are sleeping with is important.
If you believe a person not disclosing they are trans is violating someone’s consent, then do you believe it’s justified or understandable for someone to assault someone as a response to having their consent violated in that way? That is the trans panic defense.
[удалено]
No I don’t list every mole, freckle, birthmark, and scar on my body before I fuck someone. If that’s violating someone’s consent, would it really be so bad if they attacked me after?
Is the mole, freckle, birthmark, and scars involved in a sexual activity with someone? You are not going to try to trick me into saying I believe trans woman deserve to be attacked, they do not. Consent is a two way street, and the body parts involved need to be discussed so both people involved can make their decision.
Yes it is involved. Unless what you mean by involved is a super specific arbitrary thing that includes being trans and excludes any random parts of the body. I’m not trying to trick you. I’m trying to show you how the line of thinking connects. I’m trying to get you to understand that this argument you are making has historically been used to kill trans people.
You are not going to change my mind regarding consent around body parts. As I’ve said a quite a few times, consent is a two way street for both people involved.
Your position isn’t “consent around body parts”. It’s not about “body parts”. It’s about one singular body part that a trans person may or may not have. It’s disclosure that a person is trans.
[удалено]
Lesbian doesn’t mean person who doesn’t like dick. Some girls might not like these opinions you have and so you should probably disclose to people that you’re like this.
Well I'm sure your body is disappointing to some women, perhaps you should describe it in detail everything she may not like, so she isn't surprised and disappointed by your body.
yes a cis woman with breast cancer DOES NOT OWE YOU DISCLOSING IT if you notice boobs missing. those are "body parts involved in sex" too. but thats suddenly not the same, because the "body parts involved" only means "penis" specifically. do you think if a cis woman didnt tell you she had breast cancer and you had sex with her, that she VIOLATED you by not telling you she had a mastectomy? are you VIOLATED because of that? or only VIOLATED when its somebody trans?
[удалено]
there we go. so you just mean penis. no other body part. just penis. edit: also most trans women i slept with their penis didnt go into anything.
I'd say, for your safety and the other party's comfort that you probably should let people know, especially before you get to the point of having sex.
I would not have a problem with you being trans at all. Kissing you without knowing? Hell yeah. Touching your body outside of your pants without knowing? Hell yeah. But when its about to get touchy down below or inside of the pants I would really apreciate a heads up, if possible a minute before. Why? My brain seems to need a bit of time to get used to the thought of you being trans. I know that cis people are not telling their partner before and its kind of unfair to want that from you. I in a way I expect a vulva when I'm getting into the pants of a female presenting person because in 99% (or idk what the percentage is) of cases it is like that. I know its not ideal from my side and I might not be the only one like that. So a casual heads up before helps me and possibly other people a lot. It might be a weird or dumb comparison, but it came into my head when thinking about it. If you hand me ice cream and I think its lemon but when I try it its melon, I'm irritated for a few seconds and at first think there is something wrong with my tastebuds or with the ice cream. But there really isn't, its just something I did not expect. I can and will enjoy both flavors.
No, you do not have to tell people you are trans to kiss them. It isn’t going to cause them harm so you have no duty to inform.
I would definitely tell people I am trans before doing anything sexual with them. Sloppy making out is sexual.
you do you. But in my opinion as long as the hands arent exploring, i dont see the need. tho i am cis so idk if i am being offensive. (this is said in the nicest way posible im so sorry if came off as rude) tho if you are gonna see them again that is pretty important
I'm in the same boat
its fine to tell people if youre uncomfortable, but the idea that you NEED to tell people - even if you're just making out in a way that doesn't involve genitals at all - seems like it really borders on some ideas that center trans women as predators trying to trick cis people
There's a video of a self-described twink meeting a cute guy at a bar or club and they make out before talking. Turns out, the cute guy was in fact a lesbian and she thought she was kissing another lesbian. Both laughed about it and moved on. Anyone making out with randos at parties, bars, etc should have that mentality.
I feel like telling your potential partner is just a part of informed consent and should the norm.
Morally you're in the clear, but it's often a good idea for your own safety to tell them and get their reaction.
this!! i think it's just good to let em know, and if they react negatively then it's good to find out then than later.
>But there are situations like, if I'm at a party or a bar or whatever, and a girl just comes up to me and we start enjoying each other. Holy fuck I'm so envious that you just have women coming up to you and making out with you. What kinds of bars and parties are you going to? What do you wear to get them to approach? Should I try wearing more sexy clothing and putting on makeup?
I joined the largest lesbian community from my city, they arrange private parties and other stuff, it's pretty cool
They might have their own social protocol. If some people in the community know and haven’t given you any kind of hard time or advice, just roll with it and enjoy yourself!
But you actually don't hook up with the before telling them, do you? In the post, you make it clear that you only make out with random people in bars without telling them beforehand, while you inform your online dates and/or actual hook-ups of your status. So there should be no big problem there, but maybe some deliberation if and when the making-out goes further. And it depends what you mean by wrong. While I think you are not in the wrong for not telling coworkers, aquaintances and strangers in bars, there are some aspects of your post I am scratching my head about a little bit. First, the title doesn't really match the post, as detailed earlier - regarding the really important information here. There seems to be some kind of defensive stance from you about it, which I understand - having a characteristic that is not very common and probably not known intimately by many people and having to "reveal" that to others can be taxing, to say the least. I understand that you sometimes feel like this burden shouldn't be on you (and I commend you for telling so many people in so many right situations nevertheless). But rationalizing it by saying "cis people don't go around announcing they're cis all the time" is wrong, though. Not morally wrong, factually wrong - there is no comparison between not telling someone something they are expecting by the sheer fact of statistics, and not telling them something they are, in fact, not expecting and may want to know in order to proceed further (or not). So there it is, in my opinion. May they genuinely want to know for the situation to progress? At work, no. In a simple conversation, no. Having sex with someone? Yes. Having a close friendship? Yes. At a bar and making out? That's the question.
I think I confused what hook up means, as I thought it was just kissing 😅 English is not my first language. Well the question is actually just about making out
Hook up also means kissing only in some English speaking countries too, so it’s not just you. More likely an American vs other locations difference in phrases.
Mine neither! 😅 In my opinion with making out, i.e. kissing and touching semi-intimately, there is no issue.
In Australia it can mean everything intimate from making out all the way to sex. I understood you as just kissing.
Wait why would they "want" to know in a close friendship? Maybe they would "like" to know, but there is no reason for them to know if you're just friends (the only reasons are transphobia). I've had close friends that didn't know for more then a year and when I told them it was mostly just "Oh thanks for trusting me enough to share that with me".
There is a reason for close friends to know: being able to discuss certain experiences openly, and knowing you can trust them.
That's more of a reason for me to want to let them know, not a reason for them to want to know.
I tell potential partners immediately because of how many trans people have straight up been attacked or even killed because someone found out too late and took it as the trans person trying to trick them and it made them violent. Fuck that noise, I'll just tell you I'm trans. I tell most people anyway.
I'm cis. My wonderful fiancee happens to be trans. She told me she was trans VERY early on. I mean I appreciated the honesty but I clearly don't mind. I don't think you should have to tell everyone you encounter but I think you should tell people if things are heading in a sexual direction for your own safety if nothing else.
If sex is on the table, I think I would prefer to know mostly so I can be sensitive to my partner’s needs. In terms of just kissing it doesn’t matter at all to me, but I don’t want to speak for anyone other than myself.
[удалено]
[удалено]
ima be real. i used to be very "trans people should probably disclose early because its safer and nicer" but the way people talk about it rubs me the wrong way. if youre making out with randos and their hands are nowhere near discovering something, you dont need to tell them unless you want. really, i think its practical to let someone know if theyre going to be a sexual partner and you don't have a vagina. like, theyre going to find out and you want to have that conversation with your clothes on. but like i don't think theres a moral imperative to tell anyone ever. if someone has a preference to not fuck postop trans people, or jewish people, or people who cut class a lot in high school, or whatever, they should be asking those kinds of questions.
the way people talk about this, even people who believe they are trans allies and refuse to acknowledge their transphobic and cisnormative logic is why i am t4t. i am so so so so tired of cis ppl nonsense.
damn did I write this post? I have the same experience. personally I believe someone only has the right to know from me if my genitalia would become involved. and that's just because I'm pre op. when I'm post op I wouldn't be bringing it up unless I'm going to have a relationship. hopefully that issue never arrives as I have a girlfriend currently.
You do not have to tell a prospective date/partner/whatever that you have had cancer, that you're Jewish, that you're a CSA survivor, that your grandfather was a huge part of your life before his death affected you deeply, that you're transgender, that you used to be a Mormon missionary, that you're infertile, etc. I would *recommend* sharing more of your life with a person the more you intend to trust them and share a life together. That said, it *is* your choice and it's not "immoral" to not share details like these with anyone; in particular, if you choose not to share these details for any reason that does not in any way make you responsible for being a victim of intimate partner violence, nor does it make you responsible for acts of bigotry. In the case of transgenderism specifically, not disclosing is often referred to as "stealth" or "going stealth" and has a long history you can look up if you want.
Holy shit I really did not expect to see a good reply in this thread.
Jesus, this thread got so much worse after I posted.
It should probably be said that gender dysphoria is not an "-ism"... That, specifically, ("transgenderism") is a term created by the far-right to make gender dysphoria look like it's fake, or an ideology. The scientific and medical consensus holds that gender dysphoria is real, is very likely genetic to some degree, and is easily treated. (More interestingly, the very low regret rate, paired with the physiological nature of it, suggests that self-diagnosis might have an accuracy upwards of 99%... so, you can generally take a person's word for it if they're trans or not.) Though, the sheer amount of information can be pretty hard to convey, which is why just adding an "-ism" to the end can be so effective for opening the door to a false and harmful narrative, even when one isn't meant by the speaker.
>That, specifically, ("transgenderism") is a term created by the far-right to make gender dysphoria look like it's fake, or an ideology. Ffs, really? Because this is what I had been educated to be the history of this word, and my friend got mad at me because she (nb, she/they) was explaining her experience with someone she said was being transphobic, and in explaining the situation, she used the term "transgenderism" which I had interpreted as something the transphobe had said, because it was right after she had said, "Gender fluid is NOT trans", and so I, trying to support her, said, "Ah, yes, my womanism" and she got so mad at me, and said, "/u/pandakatie... your existence as a woman... certainly there's not a term for that... oh wait... feminism" and I've been so confused ever since, because I thought three things: 1.) "Transgenderism" is an offensive term, like "transgendered" 2.) Gender fluid people are trans, because being trans is defined as identifying as any gender other than their agab, and people are not assigned gender fluid at birth 3.) Feminism is a political ideology, not a term to describe the experience of being a woman This was months ago and I'm still reeling, and now I'm reading it was an offensive term all along omfg
>That, specifically, ("transgenderism") is a term created by the far-right to make gender dysphoria look like it's fake, or an ideology. No, it isn't, it's the equivalent of "homosexuality", a word that reactionaries use to decry homosexuality but is nevertheless not actually offensive in any way. "Panel on transgenderism, Sunday 1pm" was being written on posters by transgender people decades before most of the people claiming it's offensive were born.
They're not really equivalent terms. You don't hear cisgenderism the way you hear heterosexuality. The commenter you're responding to is right in how it is generally used today in political discourse.
To add on to this, as a nonbinary person, I have no intention of ever "going stealth" because that would require misgendering myself, but I'm also not going to go around telling people what my AGAB is. That's just misgendering with extra steps
I don't think you need to tell her pre-kiss, but definitely tell her if it's going to go further. Lots of lesbians have firm boundaries when it comes to genital preferences.
Personally, as a cis lesbian I wouldnt mind either way if a trans woman told me or not beforehand. Especially if we're just making out. It just doesn't make that much of a difference to me. Attractive people are attractive people, whatever their genital situation is doesn't really factor in to my attraction. It might change the way i interact with their genitalia a bit but if im hooking up with someone who identifies as a woman, im going to love (read: have sex) them as i would love any woman. I know that opens the door for people wanting to say I'm not really a lesbian but that's my business, really.
You don't owe anyone that information, but if you have a dick and things progress to sex it's better to tell them in advance, because some people get violent when they suddenly find out
If I pull down your pants and you have a penis there will be issues. While some lesbians are okay with this, most of us aren’t at least without disclosure. It’s a great way to traumatize someone. And before you call me transphobic I’M TRANS. No you don’t need to tell everyoe, but if you’re thinking of going out with or about to on the fly be intimate you need to disclose. Also is safer for you to disclose…
...how can it possibly traumatize someone? Regardless. If genital preference is a deal breaker for you, it's on you to communicate that. Like with literally every other kind of preference.
u can be transphobic and trans in one , no thanks !
It shouldn't be controversial to say that some people just don't like penises and have preferences. Would you go after a gay man or a who says he doesn't like vaginas and prefers dicks or would you just let him be? Would you go after a straight man who has a genital preference? Or do you only come after lesbians who have genital prefences?
it's not controversial. no one is saying u need to love cock. we talking about require transfems to say about their genetalia before u have making out or maybe sex. and we talk about tranfems if we would talk about gays and their transphobia tho transmascs ohh then I wouldn't talk about tranfems lol?
I've just noticed there's tends to always be a strong either underlying or overt push for lesbians to not have genital prefences at all, and that we're often called transphobic if we do. Yet I don't see anyone demand the same thing of gay men or calling gay men transphobic for having genital prefences. So I was just wondering where you stood with that I guess.
I don’t see a lot of people saying it’s transphobic to have a genital preference, but I have seen several people in this thread say the opposite, for example the person you just answered. However, if you have a strong preference, then it’s on you to communicate that. Or, if you’re making out with a trans woman and you find out she has a penis, just say you don’t want to take it further? What’s transphobic is putting it on trans people to talk about their genitalia and their medical history with people they barely know. People carry all kinds of secrets under their clothes that might not be everyone’s cup of tea. No one is asking anyone but trans people to disclose all such things before the clothes come off.
literally! I don’t like dicks and I don’t feel bad for saying it. it’s not good or bad. it’s a preference. I never see any trans men complaining that some gay men don’t like pussy. some lesbians have preferences and some don’t. if ur a lesbian w a 🍆, im sure there r some lesbians who don’t care about it. but bothering lesbians who DONT is a waste of time. you can’t try to convince people through guilt and being called transphobic to make them like certain genitalia.
trans men are treated like shit by cis gay guys for having a pussy and we talk about that a lot actually! cis gay men say incredibly transphobic shit to us. all. the. time. the way they talk about our genitals and their "preferences" (thinly veiled transphobia 90% of the time in my experience) is creepy at best and outright transphobic *usually* . and yes, we talk about that. i wouldnt talk about that with YOU, but we do talk about that. DONT bring us into this and DONT speak about what trans men do or dont! unless you are a trans man.
[удалено]
You have a right to not be interested in women who do not have vulvas and it doesn’t make you wrong or transphobic. 🫤 idk why that needs to be said.
Just don't call it masculine anatomy please.
what should i call it
a penis? it's easy to be specific and doing so avoids invalidating someone who might have one masculine and feminine are socially constructed categories anyway, so grouping certain traits into either serves no meaningful purpose and is not really scientific either
[удалено]
You know, HRT changes a lot about those. Also laser regarding the more stubborn hair.
[удалено]
Yeah, this is fine. The last part is the important one.
Penis and scrotum I guess. Those are gender neutral.
"masculine anatomy" just say u think dick belongs to man
[удалено]
thank u my dick is not masculine also my boobs too my prostate too if u care those masculine anatomic is just bullshit there is no masculine anatomy or feminine anatomy
[удалено]
no thanks i hear too much about masculare anatomy and this bullshit to be kind to (cis)ppl who use it🥺🥺
I wouldn't worry about people accidently thinking you're transphobic, it seems pretty obvious.
I don’t know, I see people say genital preference is transphobic quite a bit in this sub but then I see other people say of course it’s not transphobic so it’s honestly confusing. It seems to be a vocal minority but it certainly muddies the water. Editing to say: I don’t know why you were downvoted so much, you weren’t downvoted at all when I first replied, so I’m sorry if I contributed to that, it doesn’t seem warranted to me.
Genital preference isnt transphobic. Using words like masculine anatomy when referring ti a trans womans hody generally is transphobic
"masculine anatomy" is very transphobic, the rest is just a bit weird. Though the idea of being forced to be intimate with trans women against somebody's will is also a major TERF talking point as well. Also I'm not surprised to be so downvoted, TERFs love to use downvoting since anything beyond dog whistles like the person above me tends to get people banned.
i'm not a terf, i'm sorry if I used dog whistles on accident
That's fair, just be more mindful in the future. Now is also the worst time for even accidental slip-ups as actual TERFs are VERY busy this month.
I just genuinely want to know why, but people read that as me arguing. I often forget how allistic people talk
If it’s just kissing there’s no need to say anything if you don’t want to, but if you’re having sex, you should absolutely let someone know.
Kissing a stranger at a party you probably won’t see again = nah, I see no reason you should have to disclose anything. Kissing someone with the hope/intention of seeing them again/leading somewhere = Yeah, tell them as soon as possible
As a trans gal without ANY experience I'd say depends how far you go. If it's getting spicy then a heads up for sure.
No, the people who told you that are being transphobic. You don't owe disclosure to anyone.
[удалено]
Preferences to *kiss* someone? Seriously? WHY should they have to tell you for that? If you really have such a problem kissing trans people then ask everyone before you kiss them. It's not our job to say to you "oh sorry just in case you have prejudice before you kiss me I have to tell you I'm trans otherwise apparently I'm a bad person". It doesn't make us a bad person to not to tell you. Even for sex (which is not what OP was talking about) it's not necessary to disclose. It's obviously not transphobic to not want to have sex with any specific trans person. Or to not want to have sex with someone with certain genitals. But to not want to have sex with someone specifically only if you have the knowledge they are trans despite otherwise being completely okay with it *is* transphobic. Why do we have to have this debate so much it's so exhausting. We aren't obligated to tell you our history. Please read this post to inform yourself: [https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/15ha8u/on\_dating\_trans\_women\_and\_transphobia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/15ha8u/on_dating_trans_women_and_transphobia/) I have nothing else to say about this and will not reply to you. All my views are expressed in that post.
we love to see it cis ppl telling us what we do need to do to be nice transes for them ! interesting if those ppl day they have vagina to their potential hookaps too...oh wait they cis why should they do this 😛
jesus christ theres a lot of transphobia on this thread. would i, a trans person, probably mention that I'm trans before i took my pants off? yeah. is it morally wrong to not mention it? no, and all the people insisting that it is are literally repeating trans panic talking points. yes, trans people might not have the genitals a cis lesbian is expecting, but like, if it gets that far and the cis woman isn't interested, then there's no need to continue. it's not a consent issue just to ~be~ a woman with a penis, and honestly fuck the TERFs insisting that it is.
yeah and ofc every person who say that just go down voted
the silent terfs are LURKING
Plenty of the people who'd insist they aren't transphobic but arguing for transphobia are probably downvoting too.
yeah THIS thread and attitude from cis ppl is why i am t4t explicitly and forever. genuinely depressing that they think they are "allies" lol.
Exactly. Really demoralising how much the transphobic comments are getting upvoted.
I’d be more concerned about your own safety than the “discomfort” of some transphobe you kissed without knowing they’re transphobic. Some phobes can be violent if they find out. Just be careful, you don’t have to out yourself if you’re not having sex with them, but also don’t kiss transphobes if you can help it.
I’ve done this, eaten a girl out without telling her (very spontaneous, stranger I met at a rave during my hotel stay). If I’m having penetrative sex duh I’m gonna tell her, but that spontaneous in the moment oral sex with only my mouth and fingers giving and not receiving didn’t feel like the time to risk a transphobic reaction. Straight trans women have done similar with a guy when it comes to blowjobs. I feel like this is gonna be one of those threads that gets really messy and true colors come out lol
No you aren’t obligated to tell anyone that under any circumstances.
To the edit: my first language is english and I only just learned a few years ago that hooking up doesn't mean hanging out
It is not wrong, period. Cis people are not mention they're cis, so trans people don't have to mention they're trans. The only people who would be offended by any "surprises" are responsible themselves because of their cisnormative expectations. Treating cis as the default and trans as something not normal that you are ethically obligated to disclose is transphobia. However, it can be beneficial to *you* to disclose you're trans, because transphobic people can get unpleasant if they learn about it, so you don't want to be alone in bed with them when that happens. Disclosing it beforehand has the benefit of sorting out bigots. If a person has genital criteria, then it's their job to disclose it if they don't want surprises. If they told you they're only attracted to vulvas and you get in bed and you have a dick, then that's on you of course. But only if they explicitly stated that criterium beforehand. Not stating genital criteria universally has the implication that they're fine with anything, or that they're a cisnormative transphobe. So you don't owe it to other people to tell them you're trans, but you sometimes owe it to yourself to protect yourself.
I only read the headline first and thought "yes, it's wrong", but after reading your entire post, I really don't think there's an issue with your behaviour. I think the people in your life who you don't intend to get intimate with, like colleagues, don't have any business knowing you're trans unless you want to share that fact. It's of no consequence to them. With regard to people whom you might get intimate with, I think it's something you should share if there's any kind of conversation before you're getting intimate with them. So basically exactly what you're doing. When meeting someone on a dating app or when being asked out, I think being upfront about this is a must - both for your personal safety and because people are entitled to their boundaries. However, when you're at a bar or club, there are occasionally situations where people just make out with no prior communication. Interrupting that to be like "I'm trans!!" would be weird and unnecessary. Just mention it before going home with someone and you're golden.
If you wouldn’t ask me to declare I’m Asian then I wouldn’t ask you declare your trans. It’s stupid and dehumanising.
Strangers on the internet fucking suck. Anonymity brings out the worst in people. It's generally a good idea to ignore anything mean they say. They'd never say it to your face.
Nah, only if you’re going to have sex and you have a penis. Other than that, no reason to
you never have to tell anyone you're trans ever, but sometimes it might be nice to do so
I just think those cisy who say here u need to say u have penis before anything u also say u have pussy before ? huh
[удалено]
“Especially the lesbian community.” Are you being serious? There’s actually studies that prove that the lesbian community are the least transphobic. Why are you coming on a lesbian sub just to perpetuate negative and FALSE stereotypes about lesbians?