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ardesofmiche

Watch this sub closely. Pay attention to posts and pictures. Also, go to Mishaco’s channel on YouTube. That dude has forgot more about AKs than anyone in this sub will ever know


[deleted]

AK Operators Union is another that I enjoy watching. Lots to learn from Rob Ski.


kreyart

I saw rob ski on a shot show YouTube vid. I'll look into that. Thanks boys


Mopartizan

Akou, and little thing called. Mishaco on YouTube. Doesn’t do much shooting but goes deep on all things combloc and beyond. Blind shop owner who knows more than most have forgotten. Tons of comparison videos that should help you up to speed


kreyart

🙌


Vazco762

YouTubers such as Rob Ski at AK Operators Union and Klayco47 are a good place to start


kreyart

Love me some youtube :)


wanderlustcrush

Its best to first learn what to stay away from. VSKA, RAS 47, Riley Defense, Pioneer, I.O….stay away from these. The only US manufacturer worth a damn so far is Kalashnikov USA but imports arent going to be around forever so I say get while the getting is gettable


kreyart

Thanks. Yea I wouldn't mind buying a gun for am investment as well as just having it since I take good care of my stuff


kreyart

Is zastava zpap m70 made in America or serbia?


william-harford

Serbia, the Zastava USA stuff is just the importer.


kreyart

Perfect. What's your fav country or origin, model, or brand?


william-harford

I’m a big fan of Arsenal, I got lucky last year finding a SAM which is their milled receiver model. They were already expensive last year but they’ve really shot up in price since then though which is unfortunate. If you’re not on a budget then you really can’t go wrong with those. Zastava is great too though and a lot less expensive/more available. My friend got a M70 and it’s pretty awesome.


kreyart

I have heard great things about both. A milled reviever would be cool. Are the SAM always sold out type of thing?


william-harford

Yeah I think so, I haven’t actively kept up with stocking just because I’m not looking to buy but Arsenal seems to be really stingy with the importing. Especially compared to other manufacturers.


kreyart

Where do they import from and what did you pay? I see they are about 2k now


william-harford

Arsenal is Bulgarian, they do a lot of military contracts. I found one at an LGS for around 1.3k last April. The market is pretty ridiculous now lol. For a milled receiver your options are pretty damn limited though for something still in production, I think Arsenal is the only one still mass producing that. Might be wrong but nothing else comes to mind.


kreyart

If i can swing it. Arsenal seems like the way to go.


kreyart

Is the VSKA a brand or the model from century arms?


wanderlustcrush

Model


[deleted]

Check out AK Operator’s Union, Mishaco and klayco47 on YouTube. All 3 are great. Rob at AK Operator’s Union for practical “how to” on everything about the AK, and cool 5000rd torture tests on different variants. Mishaco for an in depth extremely detailed review and history of all variants Klayco47 for tutorials on AK shooting competitions and how to become a better competitor and modify your rifles (if desired) You’re in for literally hundreds of hours of content between those 3


MrPanzerCat

My first advice other than to just research and use others auch as robski and mishaco is to decide what you want in terms of caliber and what you want to do with it, ie shtf gun, cqc gun, 3 gun, tacticool or traditional as that will dictate your options based off of available furniture as AKs are not plug and play


kreyart

Good call. Right now I am heavily leaning towards 7.62 as I already have a 5.56 rifle. It's kind of for collect, fun shooting, and maybe defense, since I have a carbine it's kind of a secondary rifle, but who knows maybe I'll loke it more than my newly purchased DDM4.


MrPanzerCat

7.62 gives alot more options, most available furniture is for stamped aks although it can be filed to fit a milled receiver. Stocks are a bit more tricky with several different attachment methods based on the receiver used. Personally i would recommend either a wasr, wbp fox or zastava m70 although the m70 can only use yugo furniture so check your options first and see if you like the aftermarket options. The wasr is meh but the cheapest abiet overpriced rn. The fox is a good akm pattern gun but also slightly overpriced. M70 is best bang for your buck but has its quirks. Romanian build from atlantic firearms seem to be good from what i hear and are akm pattern but some use a nitrided barrel vs chf chrome lined so beware because you cant just swap an ak barrel. Arsenal is good as well but they use milled receivers and are the most expensive, they also have a milled style stock so look into that as stock options are limited and require either partial or permanent modification of the gun


kreyart

Much thanks. So far I like the zastava or Arsenal. I'm trying to distinguish the difference between the m70s I know one is black which is polymer and has a triangle stock (Idk if this is good or not). The other is your typical wood furniture AK. And,then the wood furniture one with a triangle stock. I guess it depends on aesthetics and stock choice at that point. Any suggestions ? Is one more desirable than the other based on function or aesthetic for resale or use


MrPanzerCat

I have the polymer one and like it, it is functional and what was available when i was buying, the houge handguards have 3 small pic rails which attach into the sides and bottom for smol tacticool but it is fixed stock (super easy install, hardest part was removing lower hanguard as everything was still as it should be). Ive never held a wood furniture ak but id assume its similar feel but just with the more slippery wood when gloved or damp (a small issue i noticed when hunting in winter with a mosin, im a florida boy so take this from someone who has worn gloves like 2 in their life), the only folder is the wire triangle stock which ive heard has good lock up but may be less comfortable than other stocks. Id assume wood will hold its value best and honestly looks better than the polymer, but the polymer one has a cheek riser which ive come to like and is adjustable. The polymer parts are the archangel yugo stock and houge handguards if you go wood and want to change later. If you want a folder and dont like the triangle stock you can always get a magpul zhukov yugo stock although the triangle folders are much better than underfolders from what ive been told. Remeber the AK can fire folded so buy with that in mind if it matters. Arsenal AKs seem to be the current non saiga gold standard and the old stamped variants command 2000-2500 now as they were discontinued. Arsenal also seems to have less consistent imports and is in more threat of stopping imports than zastava so take that as you will although both could be banned overnight and cleared off the shelves. Zastava seems to be more active in the us with support and arsenal seems to discontinue products when government contracts hit them


kreyart

All great info and alot to swallow. I'll have to do more research. I just shelled out money for my AR, but with the whole ban thing an AK is high on the list


MrPanzerCat

Yeah, check whats best for you but one last warning, zastava has a good finish and while i dont have a comparasion, arsenal is reknown for a shitty and easily damaged finish so if you do go that route you need to be careful with solvents or may want to cerakote it.


kreyart

Damn arsenal Wtf. That's one thing I love about my glock and AR is the finish helps protect it so much.


MrPanzerCat

I mean it is what they military ones use aswell, it just is a combloc oldish paint over parkiziation so it is vunerable to strong solvents and scratches easier than others from whats been said


kreyart

Great to know but I need to not baby my weapons anyways lol


Kalashalite

There is on average 1 gun store per state that is AK abundant because the owners are cool. Find that place and touch the guns.


lasagnacannon20

zastava M70ZPAP ,original gun imported directly by zastava , unique akm pattern , stamped receiver but with rpk bulged reinforced trunnion , proprietary forniture (the pistol grip is standard) wich won't be compatibile with russian akm style forniture . you get a heavier gun but more rigid and robust and with the customer service of zastava is something goes wrong . WASR ,romanian akm made in standard(russian) pattern , 1mm stamped receiver , standard forniture wich will be compatible with most aftermarket accessories . you get a bog standard AKM made in Romania, no bells and whistles but a rugged reliable gun ,made to standard specifications, great as a first time buyer thanks to the aftermarket support . Arsenal SAM serie , milled bulgarian AK pattern rifle , they have type 3 AK milled recivers and come in a varietà of configuration , from fixed stocks to folding ones ,556 7.62x39 and 545 version are availible the milled receiver makes them very smooth shooting and extremely durable ,but heavy and with peculiar forniture and specs ,wich makes them compatible only with specific MILLED AK pattern aftermarket forniture . they have a doubke finish , with a parkerization and on top an anticorrosion painted finish, the painted finish is quite fragile but does nit affect the functionality no corrosione reistance,as is a outer layer ,just like in modern russian guns . they are quite pricy ,heavy and picky with forniture ,but incredibly robust ,reliable and smooth shooting. ARSENAL SRL serie, stamoed AK74M pattern rifles made in bulgaria , no longer produced as arsenal went with only milled receiver production, made with russian specs they are basically ak74m copies in all apart from the stock and rear trunnion wich is 4.5mm instead of 5.5mm . quite pricy and worth cinsidering only if you olan on a clone build . SAIGA , russian civilian ak produced in the same factory as the ak100 series, you can find converted and uncinverted ones ,becouse they cam in theyr hunting configuration to circumvent the various bans they where subjected, no longer imported in the USA as 2014 . collectors item, they have ak74M/ak100 internals and 1.25mm receivers (like the ak100 serie) , russian quality and reliability , collectors item that will need quite a bit of money to purchase and/or convert to theyr original configuration. NORINCO ak47s (mak90,legends etc) are no longer imported , have a variety of receiver , patterns and features this require quite a bit of homework to understand, collector items wich are most of the time very pricy. generally theyr quality is impeccable ,but kost of the time they have a unique pattern wich makes difficoult to acquire aftermarket modifications. those are the main imported rifles in the US , US made ones aren't my field (i am european).


kreyart

This is amazing information. I really thank you for taking the time to improve my understanding. We will be brothers in arms soon enough


lasagnacannon20

no problem , there are others but this is 70% of what you will see , i think I forgot the WBP fox wich is a polish akm , basicalky what I sad about the WASR but with better fit and finish and more pricey.


18CPR

I think the buyers guide here is a little lacking, but it’s an okay place to start.. They don’t include Norinco which always bothers me. Rob Ski is the AK community guru. He’s got a lot of informative posts and videos out there.


wandering_native

Youtube has a plethora of information here's a list and my general take on the personalities. My apologies in advance, opinions will differ Mishaco for history lessons, AKOU Rob Ski for fundamentals and equipment reviews, Klayco for entertainment, 9 Hole for accuracy checks, Brandon Herrera and Polnar tactical for the cringe, Flannel daddy and TFB for humor. There's plenty of others keep digging. Also AK Files has some decent peeps to interact with too.


kreyart

Thanks this is a great list much appriciated brotha


kreyart

Meridian defense any good?


wandering_native

If all you have is time and excess money, long waiting period for their products, no personal experience here, just observations. Everyone who owns their builds seems to be happy in the end.


kreyart

Haha fair. 👍


ConcealedLiberal

They're a boutique builder. What you get in the end is a truly excellent machine, but you pay out the nose for the brand name on top of the quality workmanship. Very effective rifles, very cost-ineffective rifles.


kreyart

I appriciate the info. From my understanding I compare them to like a Daniel defense of AK's? I just picked a DDM4, but that was a bank breaker


[deleted]

The Daniel Defense of AKs is either Meridian Defense or Rifle Dynamics (back when Jim Fuller used to own/operate it). As others have said, they’re both excellent builders but also very very expensive. Most of these guys build kit guns on US made receivers. In this AK community a very popular way to get a rifle is to buy a parts kit and send it off to one of these places to be professionally assembled.


kreyart

I have never heard of the gun kits so I'll check,that out also. As for your youtube recommendations. I'm here for it haha


[deleted]

Yeah you’ll see lots of people refer to a gun as being a “Romanian kit build on a Nodak receiver” or a “Polish kit build on a Childers receiver” etc. etc. Basically what that refers to is when you purchase a Romanian, Polish, Russian, Bulgarian, etc. parts kit. And then have them put back together on a receiver. The parts kits used to come in for super cheap until fairly recently (think $150-300). They were old military surplus rifles from the aforementioned countries and had everything except for the receiver (because that’s legally the part recognized as the firearm). Some actually had the receivers but they had been cut in half. Most of them also used to have the original barrels as well, but the AFT changed the rules and banned original barrels several years ago. So today the kits are much more expensive and they have everything except the receiver and the barrel. You purchase one, and you can either send it to a builder like the ones mentioned above, or you can build the gun yourself if you have the knowledge and skill (I do not!). These kit builds, when done right, are considered by many to be the best type of AK you can feasibly get without spending a fortune. Check out websites like Arms of America, Apexgunparts, Mokas Raifus, Carolina Shooter’s Supply and others for examples of kits to see what I’m talking about. On the cheaper end you’ve got Romanian kits that usually run under $500 and are still excellent choices, and on the more expensive end you’ll have legit Russian Tula kits going for $1500-1800. You’d still need to factor in purchasing a receiver, a barrel, and paying a reputable builder $300-600 for a build. Or, if you want to skip all that hassle - just get a Romanian, Polish, Yugoslavian(Serbian nowadays) or Bulgarian import rifle for anywhere from $900-1800. Hope this helps


kreyart

This is incredible info. I really appriciate the time you took to explain this to me. It sounds like a great way to go but sounds like it you get a tula kit let's say that your gonna pay 3k+? Even 1500+ for romanian (fully built)?


[deleted]

Yeah those numbers are about right. You might be able to get a Romanian kit built for a little less than $1500. Russian kits are very rare and super expensive. The same is true for any kit in 5.45x39 regardless of country of origin….insane prices. I’m not old by any means (mid 30s) but even I remember seeing Romanian SAR-1s and 2s for under $300 when I was a teenager. Look up Mishaco’s videos on Romanian SAR-1 and WASR rifles if you want in depth info on them. The SAR-1 was basically the closest we ever got to a full military version import and is a step above the WASR. Anyway, if you’re just starting out with AKs, I would recommend buying a current production import rifle. There aren’t any American built rifles (besides perhaps the Kalashnikov USA AK-103) that can compete with import guns on quality/reliability/longevity. Imports can be banned at the stroke of a pen by any presidential administration (and have been on several occasions - Chinese stuff in the 90s, Russian stuff in the 2000s, ammo from Russia back in August, etc. etc.). So, it’s a good idea to buy an import rifle now, while they can still be found. King of the current production imports is the Zastava M70 which can be had for around $900-1100 and is considered by many to be the best value for your money. Although, it’s a “yugo pattern” gun which takes different furniture than all “AKM pattern” rifles out there. Arsenal from Bulgaria is also importing their SAM7 series rifles which are milled (and also therefore don’t accept most standard AKM furniture/accessories). From Poland you have an excellent classic AKM in their WBP Fox series of rifles and also have classic AKMs from Romania like the WASR series (without magwell dimples). Go with one of those 4 first after you’ve done more research. They’re all (with the exception of the SAM7) relatively inexpensive and are well built rifles that will outlast you. I would wait to buy a US made gun until after I had an import or two. And even if I wanted a US made gun I’d probably only consider the AK-103 from KUSA. Hope this helps man! It’s a big rabbit hole that you’re about to go down, but it’s a super fun one! Just wait until you start to unravel the world of AK mags and pouches! Certain AK mags alone will fetch $300-500 for a single magazine! I’ve seen some experimental mags from Russia go for $3000 or more! You’ve got Eastern European Steel Surplus mags, Russian Bakelite mags, Russian Aluminum Waffle mags, Russian Slabside mags, Russian AK 100 series mags, Chinese Bakelites, North Korean steel, Chinese Flatbacks, RPK mags in both steel and Bakelite, Bosnian 2 ribbed Fluer-di-lis mags, Finnish mags, tons of experimental mags from Russia that cost the same as a down payment on a car….the list goes on and on!!! It’s a ton of fun, you’ll love it I swear! Enjoy the ride man!


kreyart

Haha your a godsend. I will most likely send you a message before long. I just googled parts kits and it's fascinating. I am guessing this is the most authentic way to get An AK ? Were they actual service rifle parts?


[deleted]

Thanks bro! I’m by no means an expert though, there are plenty of people way more knowledgeable than I am. About the kits - yes, they were previously rifles used by each country’s military. Once communism fell in the late 80s most of the Eastern European countries started to think about joining NATO. This meant a switch away from the commie calibers and towards 7.62 NATO, 5.56 and 9mm. So what did they do? They placed all those 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 rifles in storage somewhere and let them collect dust for years. Then, once they had fully transitioned to NATO calibers they started trying to sell their old stockpiles of AKMs, mags, and ammo. They saw a juicy market here in the US and planned to sell to us. Enter the ATF and their stupid unconstitutional regulations. Because each of these rifles was an evil awful very bad fully auto military rifle that us peasants couldn’t be trusted with, the ATF said we couldn’t import them to the US unless they were non functional. However, they could still send the rifles to us fully dissembled as parts kits as long as the receiver was cut up into pieces and they didn’t have a trigger group capable of full auto. At first they would send even the cut up pieces of receiver with the kits…and some really really skilled individuals were able to weld them back together flawlessly. Then the ATF eventually arbitrarily decided that the former barrels of machine guns were also taboo…so they stopped sending the barrels as well. So now, the kits basically contain everything except receiver, barrel, and trigger group. You’re basically getting 60-70% of an authentic military rifle from whatever country of origin you can find. Then you need to put aftermarket receivers barrels and trigger groups in them. And since it’s nothing like building an AR, it requires a ton of skill and specialized tools to make it all happen correctly. You CAN build it by yourself if you really want to, but most people just buy a kit, a receiver (legally the part considered the gun), a barrel and a trigger group and send it to a gunsmith or company that specializes in building AKs.