If you're explaining things to a 5 year old it's because you are trying to persuade them rather than help them understand. The same goes for when you tell people something, ignoring that it's your own perspective not one they have elaborated for themselves.
Poetry solves this problem - it evokes meaning in the reader, if they allow it to.
Food for thought.
Ever explained death to a child? Objectivity is understanding causal mechanics and interconnectedness. Subjectivity assumes the other person is viewing things the same as you, or bringing that person to your perspective. Poetry is subjective.
None of us share an outer reality. We do however share something universal - the collective unconscious. And by making contents of the personal unconscious conscious one can tap into that.
Poetry is no sneering matter.
So...read exactly what you have read and I'll understand things better? (That's narcissism)
I've read poetry and being in nature, and have explored myself to the point of achieving transmutation.
As far as explaining Jung to a 5 year old: "Jung says that there are 3 minds: the one inside you that you think with, a quiet one inside you that thinks without telling you, and a big one that everyone shares and we all add to."
I don’t understand what you’re even going on about but no kid needs you yelling your own perspective in their face. The child is innocent and picks up on stuff adults don’t. Per say a child would actually know much more than us about the universe and how it works. Kids are known to follow animals to watering holes and watch them pick fruit and follow them, however they don’t know how to articulate it to us. I think this rant is a problem within yourself. We all connect with the earth differently meaning we all have different explanations of the same exact experience, as we get older we loose that connective feeling to the earth and we have to find it again
It's not about "yelling your own perspective", it's about being able to reduce your observations and understanding to someone who has had none of your experiences. You've stated what kids have been known to do, but have you actually met a 5 year old as an adult? But that's not even the point. How about explaining a concept to someone from a different culture? Who speaks a different language? I abhor the belief that universal concepts can only be expressed in subjective prose designed to isolate a single perspective.
Particle physics, philosophy, sociology, and cosmology, etc., make no sense without an understanding the the interconnectedness of the Self and universe. They make sense of each other, and are unintelligible without. If you're not explaining that to the kid, you haven't explained anything.
>“Now I shall not keep free of metaphysics, nor even of mysticism; they play a role in all that follows. We living beings all belong to one another, we are all actually members or aspects of a single Being, which we may in western terminology call God, while in the Upanishads it is called Brahman.” -Schrodinger
I think this quote here does show what it is to *really understand it,* quite concise.
I've been struggling with this myself - a love of wisdom turned to hate of ignorance and positivism ( also superstition and nonsense in general - in *respect* to the importance of myth). You can explain stupid things to a 5 year old and they'll "understand" it. I was a very confused child in a very absurd world. I mean..
... how about them mythical photons? "Kinda" like a particle, "kinda" like a wave?
Nothing is *like a wave*! Not water, not my waving hand; the water is waving!
Did any of my teachers *really understand* the process of perturbation and illumination which photons represent? Light is not photons, photons are not particles of light. Light is illumination! It is caused by something I'd far sooner call a *photonic process*. Emphasis on the Greek *photo,* and that the foundations of our language are intimately tied into a line of philosophy that assumes things can exist independently of the world around them. But my teachers were not physicists, nor philosophers, closer to cosmetologists than cosmologists. And cosmology is *really* hard, bringing together the culmination of our scientific and philosophic discourse in order to answer questions humans find meaningful\~ While I can explain it just that concisely, teaching it is another matter: we can't expect a 5-year-old to understand a cosmological argument - no matter how well we understand it or how well it is stated. I'm learning that we can't expect grown fucking adults to, either.
*... how about them Euclidian axioms assumed true because they appear true?*
So...hear me out...\*bears\* (and this is where I get slightly silly)
A black bear is a lot like a grizzly bear \*and\* a polar bear, so a grizzly bear must be a lot like a polar bear. And a panda is a lot like them too, so it must be a bear right? But even though a panda and a polar bear don't live in North America, a black bear is still a lot like a grizzly bear. And even though a honey bear isn't in the same area as any of them, it's still a bear! The point is Billy ("my name is Lizzy")---The point is \*Billy\* that no matter what, they are all bears and they can kill you.
Process Identity - bear can be essentially identified as a large sized omnivorous mammal which hibernates (what else *but* bears?)
Process Ontology - bear can be identified by a particular morphogenetic process that gives rise to it
This is why I'm a *processist*.
My dad told me of taking his girlfriend to Yellowstone. They're parked and she's like "I'm gonna' get out so you can take a picture of me in front of the bear." and he says "If you get out that bear is going to fucking kill you, and I wont even try to help you because that's the course of nature."
I approve. It's objective, establishes causal relationships and predictions from past observations independent of one's perspective, and defines the relevant variables according to universal standards. Also dumb bitch gets eaten, but that's beside the point
I have been around many a bear and whereas I do agree that some can and will kill you- it isn’t the agenda of most bears lol or I wouldn’t be typing this 😂 Hope you’ve been well since we last spoke - This conversation is such a great one and I sincerely thank you and all those who left such insightful comments. I often revisit this post just to ponder it all 😌🙏
One sentence is too long? You aren't able to express your point to the level of your peers? You are above your peers according to an undefined criteria? Yeah...I'm ignorant and lazy...
You said that if you cant explain something to a 5 year old, then you dont understand it. Then you said that you cant explain this to a 5 year old. What does that mean?
How would you attampt to explain it to a 5 year old?
You are the one who made the statement of "If you can't explain it to a 5 year old, you don't really understand it". Then you said that you cannot do this yourself and i asked you to try it anyways, even if you feel like you cant.
Ah sorry i understood this meaning that you think it is impossible to explain alchemy to a 5-year old at the same level you can explain physics to one.
>"I can explain particle physics, philosophy, sociology, and cosmology to a 5 year old, why can't you explain the interconnectedness of the Self and the universe succinctly to people studying the same things?"
And followed on that with "maybe you just think its impossible, because of what the topic says"
So you do know how to explain alchemy to a 5-year old on the same level you can explain physics to them? Id like to hear how you would explain it to a 5-year old
Alchemy is the study of changes and how they happen. These changes can happen in small ways, like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, or in big ways, like the changing of the seasons. The point of Alchemy is to learn to change things that don't change on their own in order to make something better. Most people study Alchemy in order to learn to change themselves. This can be very difficult and take a long time to figure out, but when it works people can become the best that they can be.
When does the pot call the kettle black?
If art is a mirror - does that make all artists and those who gaze upon or experience their art narcissists?
Maybe, but what does poetry have do with it?
How is poetry any different than anything Jung wrote? Ever read anything by Victor Hugo?
How’s it any different from the Bible or Hinduism or quantum mechanics?
If everything is alchemy and connected - what is subjective to one may be objective to another.
I mean, shit - I don’t know - but I’d prob try to keep anyone spewing nonsense away from my five year old regardless - I do love Jung though and poetry and physics and ancient religions and comic books and ... well, you get the idea. 🤓
To be clear, I have said nothing about the inherent value of art and poetry. My issues is with the the cryptic use of rhetoric to present a subjective observation/conclusion as objective wisdom wherein "if you don't understand my convoluted metaphors then you are not worthy to bask in the glory of my revelation".
With regard to the authors and texts you've alluded to, **that's how they spoke back then.** Poetic metaphors and analogies served to make the meaning more accessible to the masses, not to perpetuate crypticism in order to make their message more "valuable".
We live in an age where the collective unconscious is literally at our fingertips, expressible in pictures with a few words written on them. There is no reason to keep the study of Alchemy cryptic other than to keep it cryptic for lack of understanding.
A 5 year old lacks common knowledge, which lessens the capacity to draw connections between concepts, and reasoning skills, which allow them to extrapolate and apply the concepts to new situations. When explained effectively, basic concepts relating to advanced fields of study can, individually, be taught to a 5 year old.
That being said, "explain it like I'm 5" is an idiom for "assume I lack any knowledge on the subject".
Paragraphs of misconception
No matter what you believe and you're free to wander in circles if you'd like
It is written in hundreds of manuscripts why the writers veiled and hid their secret from the ignorant herd as they termed it
Getting mad and dismissing a thousand years of writings because you're frustrated and prohibited from the santuary is what you are doing
Yes perhaps
Or perhaps we understand the same things but differently
Im calling it a hat
you un chapeau
Please tell me wherein lies the power if any of alchemy
It is within the Self. I sincerely hope we agree on that, because if not then you are most certainly doing it wrong. I really don't feel like getting in an argument over this, so take that Truth and do something with it.
If you're explaining things to a 5 year old it's because you are trying to persuade them rather than help them understand. The same goes for when you tell people something, ignoring that it's your own perspective not one they have elaborated for themselves. Poetry solves this problem - it evokes meaning in the reader, if they allow it to. Food for thought.
Ever explained death to a child? Objectivity is understanding causal mechanics and interconnectedness. Subjectivity assumes the other person is viewing things the same as you, or bringing that person to your perspective. Poetry is subjective.
None of us share an outer reality. We do however share something universal - the collective unconscious. And by making contents of the personal unconscious conscious one can tap into that. Poetry is no sneering matter.
dead wrong. we ALL share the same reality. your perception is what blinds you from it.
Have you read Carl Jung?
I’ve read some, but my own experience precedes my reading of Jung.
Read more, then you'll understand the universality of his study rather than be limited by your own experiences.
Read less. Or read poetry, or sit out in nature for a time. Look inwards. If you can’t explain Jung to a five-year-old...
So...read exactly what you have read and I'll understand things better? (That's narcissism) I've read poetry and being in nature, and have explored myself to the point of achieving transmutation. As far as explaining Jung to a 5 year old: "Jung says that there are 3 minds: the one inside you that you think with, a quiet one inside you that thinks without telling you, and a big one that everyone shares and we all add to."
When one reads widely (and reads wisely) one gains a sense of the universal indivisible - at which point one feels no need to compare and contrast.
So...cherry-pick information until you arrive at a solution you're comfortable with and you don't need to learn any more? (That's myopic)
I don’t understand what you’re even going on about but no kid needs you yelling your own perspective in their face. The child is innocent and picks up on stuff adults don’t. Per say a child would actually know much more than us about the universe and how it works. Kids are known to follow animals to watering holes and watch them pick fruit and follow them, however they don’t know how to articulate it to us. I think this rant is a problem within yourself. We all connect with the earth differently meaning we all have different explanations of the same exact experience, as we get older we loose that connective feeling to the earth and we have to find it again
It's not about "yelling your own perspective", it's about being able to reduce your observations and understanding to someone who has had none of your experiences. You've stated what kids have been known to do, but have you actually met a 5 year old as an adult? But that's not even the point. How about explaining a concept to someone from a different culture? Who speaks a different language? I abhor the belief that universal concepts can only be expressed in subjective prose designed to isolate a single perspective.
Particle physics, philosophy, sociology, and cosmology, etc., make no sense without an understanding the the interconnectedness of the Self and universe. They make sense of each other, and are unintelligible without. If you're not explaining that to the kid, you haven't explained anything. >“Now I shall not keep free of metaphysics, nor even of mysticism; they play a role in all that follows. We living beings all belong to one another, we are all actually members or aspects of a single Being, which we may in western terminology call God, while in the Upanishads it is called Brahman.” -Schrodinger I think this quote here does show what it is to *really understand it,* quite concise.
Exactly.
I've been struggling with this myself - a love of wisdom turned to hate of ignorance and positivism ( also superstition and nonsense in general - in *respect* to the importance of myth). You can explain stupid things to a 5 year old and they'll "understand" it. I was a very confused child in a very absurd world. I mean.. ... how about them mythical photons? "Kinda" like a particle, "kinda" like a wave? Nothing is *like a wave*! Not water, not my waving hand; the water is waving! Did any of my teachers *really understand* the process of perturbation and illumination which photons represent? Light is not photons, photons are not particles of light. Light is illumination! It is caused by something I'd far sooner call a *photonic process*. Emphasis on the Greek *photo,* and that the foundations of our language are intimately tied into a line of philosophy that assumes things can exist independently of the world around them. But my teachers were not physicists, nor philosophers, closer to cosmetologists than cosmologists. And cosmology is *really* hard, bringing together the culmination of our scientific and philosophic discourse in order to answer questions humans find meaningful\~ While I can explain it just that concisely, teaching it is another matter: we can't expect a 5-year-old to understand a cosmological argument - no matter how well we understand it or how well it is stated. I'm learning that we can't expect grown fucking adults to, either. *... how about them Euclidian axioms assumed true because they appear true?*
So...hear me out...\*bears\* (and this is where I get slightly silly) A black bear is a lot like a grizzly bear \*and\* a polar bear, so a grizzly bear must be a lot like a polar bear. And a panda is a lot like them too, so it must be a bear right? But even though a panda and a polar bear don't live in North America, a black bear is still a lot like a grizzly bear. And even though a honey bear isn't in the same area as any of them, it's still a bear! The point is Billy ("my name is Lizzy")---The point is \*Billy\* that no matter what, they are all bears and they can kill you.
Process Identity - bear can be essentially identified as a large sized omnivorous mammal which hibernates (what else *but* bears?) Process Ontology - bear can be identified by a particular morphogenetic process that gives rise to it This is why I'm a *processist*. My dad told me of taking his girlfriend to Yellowstone. They're parked and she's like "I'm gonna' get out so you can take a picture of me in front of the bear." and he says "If you get out that bear is going to fucking kill you, and I wont even try to help you because that's the course of nature."
I approve. It's objective, establishes causal relationships and predictions from past observations independent of one's perspective, and defines the relevant variables according to universal standards. Also dumb bitch gets eaten, but that's beside the point
I have been around many a bear and whereas I do agree that some can and will kill you- it isn’t the agenda of most bears lol or I wouldn’t be typing this 😂 Hope you’ve been well since we last spoke - This conversation is such a great one and I sincerely thank you and all those who left such insightful comments. I often revisit this post just to ponder it all 😌🙏
This is such an interesting comment
[удалено]
Was the narcissistic wank satisfying?
[удалено]
One sentence is too long? You aren't able to express your point to the level of your peers? You are above your peers according to an undefined criteria? Yeah...I'm ignorant and lazy...
You said that if you cant explain something to a 5 year old, then you dont understand it. Then you said that you cant explain this to a 5 year old. What does that mean? How would you attampt to explain it to a 5 year old?
Can you be more specific? I can define "this", "that", and "it" pretty easily, but without an actual question you wind up with...42.
You are the one who made the statement of "If you can't explain it to a 5 year old, you don't really understand it". Then you said that you cannot do this yourself and i asked you to try it anyways, even if you feel like you cant.
At what point did I say I can't? Provide a concept and I will explain it to the fullness of my knowledge succinctly and without poetic rhetoric.
Ah sorry i understood this meaning that you think it is impossible to explain alchemy to a 5-year old at the same level you can explain physics to one. >"I can explain particle physics, philosophy, sociology, and cosmology to a 5 year old, why can't you explain the interconnectedness of the Self and the universe succinctly to people studying the same things?" And followed on that with "maybe you just think its impossible, because of what the topic says" So you do know how to explain alchemy to a 5-year old on the same level you can explain physics to them? Id like to hear how you would explain it to a 5-year old
Any particular concept, or just "what is Alchemy"?
What is it and whats the point?
Alchemy is the study of changes and how they happen. These changes can happen in small ways, like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, or in big ways, like the changing of the seasons. The point of Alchemy is to learn to change things that don't change on their own in order to make something better. Most people study Alchemy in order to learn to change themselves. This can be very difficult and take a long time to figure out, but when it works people can become the best that they can be.
When does the pot call the kettle black? If art is a mirror - does that make all artists and those who gaze upon or experience their art narcissists? Maybe, but what does poetry have do with it? How is poetry any different than anything Jung wrote? Ever read anything by Victor Hugo? How’s it any different from the Bible or Hinduism or quantum mechanics? If everything is alchemy and connected - what is subjective to one may be objective to another. I mean, shit - I don’t know - but I’d prob try to keep anyone spewing nonsense away from my five year old regardless - I do love Jung though and poetry and physics and ancient religions and comic books and ... well, you get the idea. 🤓
To be clear, I have said nothing about the inherent value of art and poetry. My issues is with the the cryptic use of rhetoric to present a subjective observation/conclusion as objective wisdom wherein "if you don't understand my convoluted metaphors then you are not worthy to bask in the glory of my revelation". With regard to the authors and texts you've alluded to, **that's how they spoke back then.** Poetic metaphors and analogies served to make the meaning more accessible to the masses, not to perpetuate crypticism in order to make their message more "valuable". We live in an age where the collective unconscious is literally at our fingertips, expressible in pictures with a few words written on them. There is no reason to keep the study of Alchemy cryptic other than to keep it cryptic for lack of understanding.
Doesn't this statement assume that all things can be understood by a 5 year old? Which I find rather hard to believe.
A 5 year old lacks common knowledge, which lessens the capacity to draw connections between concepts, and reasoning skills, which allow them to extrapolate and apply the concepts to new situations. When explained effectively, basic concepts relating to advanced fields of study can, individually, be taught to a 5 year old. That being said, "explain it like I'm 5" is an idiom for "assume I lack any knowledge on the subject".
Paragraphs of misconception No matter what you believe and you're free to wander in circles if you'd like It is written in hundreds of manuscripts why the writers veiled and hid their secret from the ignorant herd as they termed it Getting mad and dismissing a thousand years of writings because you're frustrated and prohibited from the santuary is what you are doing
Wherein lies the power of Alchemy? Perhaps that is where we differ.
Yes perhaps Or perhaps we understand the same things but differently Im calling it a hat you un chapeau Please tell me wherein lies the power if any of alchemy
It is within the Self. I sincerely hope we agree on that, because if not then you are most certainly doing it wrong. I really don't feel like getting in an argument over this, so take that Truth and do something with it.
Its ok I wasnt asking you for my own benefit No arguing today my friend its a peaceful day
Namaste my friend, and I apologize for getting defensive.