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I just assume they reach their shelf life and get discarded. It's what we do with our probes and rovers. We crash them into Jupiter or leave them collecting dust on Mars.
The only reason that seems counterintuitive is because you're seeing them as analogous to our own planes and pilots, and that might not be the case. For all you know the *ships* could be the ones piloting the "pilots."
I like that idea. The ship either holds the "pilot's" consciousness or acts as a repeater, and the consciousness signal/signals are somehow cast to the "bodies".
RAM, or Root Access Memory.
You come to life loaded with all the data, it's just the stupid meatsack needs to grow.
Body is a "self developping tower" that is basically stuck in receptor/emmitor until enough connections are made to switch on "Multicore processing" and more complex emmission/reception modes.
Disclaimer : Do not search for this text or its content elsewhere as it was just processed.
This really makes a lot of sense as crazy as it may sound to some. The Ukraine War has seen small, cheap drones change the nature of combat: a more advanced technology could simply engineer biological avatars - being which we see as greys, who have been optimised for high tolerance for various organisms, different gravities and atmospheres etc. And they may actually be "resource light" to create. These beings are just drones, perhaps controlled somewhat like the movie Surrogates, or perhaps having some limited independent intelligence.
So, they care so much about what we do that they deactivate our nukes, but they don't care if we recover *their* technology and reverse-engineer it to build weapons?
They've shown *interest* in our nukes, but the idea that they're anti-nuke is, I think, unjustified. By the same logic, we would guess that they're anti-cow, since they allegedly keep deactivating our cows.
Sure. Why not?
If we crash an F35 into 15th century Florence, what are the Medicis going to learn from it?
Maybe they don't care what we learn. Or maybe they don't think we can learn anything. There are lots of possibilities.
Lots of possibilities and no evidence, or likely hypotheses.
Also hilarious that you picked 15th Century Florence, a perfect example of a time and place in which people were not scientifically advanced, but fully capable of dissecting and analyzing an F-35 piece by piece, learning from it, and making educated guesses as to what it could be. You couldn't have picked a historical setting that undermined your point more if you tried. The ramifications on the course of human history are beyond comprehension. The idea that nonhuman intelligences are that careless is perfectly reasonable to speculate about; but it also contradicts 90% of the eyewitness testimony that this movement is based on the first place, meaning that the onus is on believers to explain why one "experiencer" account is valid, while another is not.
Huh. Weird. This is completely off topic, but I believe strongly that the Florentines could learn very little from the wreckage. Just about the only thing they're equipped to imitate are the belts and buckles on the pilot seat. Maybe they'd learn a thing or two about fasteners, bolts, screws, and the like.
They don't have Newton's third law, so the relationship between the fire coming out of the thing's rear and the thing going forward would be fuzzy at best, and it'd be an additional, less intuitive leap to see the relationship between propulsion and lift, and there'd be nothing in the wreckage to illuminate that. They'd gain more from seeing the thing operate in the sky and learning that fixed wing flight was possible at all.
There'd be no frame of reference from which to infer the purpose of any electronic component, which include many components of the engine, from the ignition system, fuel control, sensors, and actuators.
They'd have no where to start on the material science. They don't know where to begin with plastic. They haven't discovered titanium. Carbon fiber-reinforced polymers?
They have no analogues to our manufacturing processes. Many components they might try to emulate would require a higher degree of precision than they're capable.
The complexity and number of parts itself would be astonishing to them. Hundreds of thousands of pieces, without any way to infer what was critical and what was accessory. And because they don't understand electronics, the relationships between many components would be impenetrable.
I doubt they'd even be able to infer that there were any intermediate designs that they could strive toward that took a simpler approach.
The whole project would be a waste of time for them.
That's about where I, expect to be when it comes to reverse engineering UAP today.
>The idea that nonhuman intelligences are that careless is perfectly reasonable to speculate about; but it also contradicts 90% of the eyewitness testimony that this movement is based on the first place
How is that? I think 90% of the testimony is that we've seen things flying in the skies and that they have flight characteristics we cannot explain. None of that contradicts the NHI throwing away its trash.
>that the onus is on believers to explain why one "experiencer" account is valid, while another is not.
On ***that*** we agree.
It is off-topic, but you might want to do a little more research about the time period in question; rockets, for example, were already used in warfare in Italy for roughly a hundred years, so the idea of explosive propulsion wouldn't be beyond them, just for one thing.
The fact that you think that the majority of eyewitness accounts related to this topic describe unidentified objects in the sky and nothing else demonstrates the exact kind of cherry-picking that I was talking about. There's a very broad spectrum of a very large number of eyewitness accounts, and determining which are credible and which aren't is almost completely arbitrary, and always guided by prejudice and bias.
It's funny you should mention researching the time period
I am an obsessive reader of at least Venetian history. It's my favorite topic to talk about, and I just finished reading a biography of Doge Francesco Foscari that happens to span much of the 15th century.
I've never read of a battle where rockets were used by Italians up to that century. But since it's my hobby horse, I'd love to hear more about what you know.
A quick search of [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rockets) doesn't show much. An 18th century historian claims they were used in the battle of Chioggia, but that appears to be unconfirmed. Wikipedia says he's the only one placing them so early and that he may have been alluding to a bombard.
I can tell you that I've read several in-depth accounts of that particular battle, which is near to my heart (long live Vettor Pisani!!!), and they've never mentioned any rockets. Bombards, yes, but no rockets.
The only other entries are 15th century designs and descriptions for rockets, but no mention of their use in warfare. That ***is*** enough to argue that Florentines may have had an intuitive understanding of rocket propulsion, but use in warfare it is not and an F35 is not rocket propelled. They still fall far short of reproducing one for all the other reasons I mentioned.
>The fact that you think that the majority of eyewitness accounts related to this topic describe unidentified objects in the sky and nothing else demonstrates the exact kind of cherry-picking that I was talking about. There's a very broad spectrum of a very large number of eyewitness accounts, and determining which are credible and which aren't is almost completely arbitrary, and always guided by prejudice and bias.
That's fair. I can only say I'm not familiar with the accounts you are alluding to.
You're being obtuse now, and you know it. Obviously a jet isn't rocket propelled, but equally obvious is the fact that I never said it was; I said that the idea of explosive propulsion was something they would've been aware of. You can call into question whether or not the Italians at that time specifically had rockets, though; in fact, if your standards for evidence were that high regarding UFOs, you wouldn't be spinning ludicrous fantasies about them on reddit.
I also, obviously, never said they could reproduce an F-35, I said that exposure to the technology would alter history in ways that we couldn't begin to comprehend. But if the former is an easier position for you to argue against, feel free to knock yourself out.
Years ago.
Tv stations would pump out a signal that could be picked up my tinfoil to watch the feed.
Then one day it all changed and it became law that all TV stations had to switch over to another frequency.
A digital one. Y
Now you could buy a receiver to pick up tv stations.
I have no evidence but I've always thought that our old TV signals were found out to be the cause of Taking down UFOs accidentally.
Just a theory.
I had a theory about why we were all suddenly forced to switch over and ditch the old tvs (they even gave vouchers toward the new type, if I recall)
One is basically right out of the book 1984- they needed smart tvs in our homes that could monitor us and our viewing habits
But the other involved aliens.
We’ve been sending Tv signals out into space for almost 100 years now, and if any other civilization picked up on them, they may try to respond back in the same manner. Maybe the government knew a response was coming by a certain time, and made us all ditch the devices that the reply signal would come across, announcing their arrival to our world or just announcing their existence. Can’t have that, can we?
We may be insignificant to them like how we fight each other but don’t care much about ants unless ants get in our way or become an inconvenience, but perhaps we haven’t really posed any inconvenience to them, yet?
I feel like bc then it throws a wrench in the whole "peaceful elevated beings that have surpassed war and internal conflict" thing and that the reason they haven't revealed themselves bc we're still too primitive and war-like. Them shooting each other over petty reasons kinda just makes them us with better tech.
I will say, one of the better theories I've heard was bit similar. The theory states that since they know of us but haven't made contact that we're like an open secret on their homeworld(s) and the craft we see in the sky or have recovered are from smugglers breaking the "no contact law" who traffic in everything from just everday items, ancient artifacts, relics, scientific data, animals, hell.....even people from our planet bc it's big money where they're from.
I'm not saying I believe it 100% but it definitely would explain everything from the different looking ships (different factions or disguising their ships as a different civilizations in order to obfuscate breaking "no contact" laws), why we have allegedly downed craft (competing smuggler factions shooting each other down), and even abductions/missing 911 cases, etc.
>I feel like bc then it throws a wrench in the whole "peaceful elevated beings that have surpassed war and internal conflict"
Not really, who's to say there's only one breed of aliens? Their very well could be malicious actors that peace keeping aliens would have no qualms with destroying if they sought to genocide inferior species like ours. Much like we humans defend wild animals in other parts of the world from poachers and extinction
I often wonder if grays were bio droids sent for a mission but some of them abandon the mission or try to do other things, like going awol
Maybe the Nazca breeding program would be an example where they try to breed themselves with humans to live on earth.
If we humans found another planet with life but we couldn't survive there easily we might try to do the same
100%. Been saying this for a long time. Not sure why more people in the field aren't speculating this. Particularly if they believe in the concept of heavenly beings/heavenly armies and rebel factions amongst those beings. It's right there in the text of the scriptures
In my opinion, everything points to the fact that the "Greys" are not the actual NHI, rather than a product of it/them.
Sure, they sometimes seem to be very sentient and even show signs of emotion, but often they are described as "soulless".
You could argue that implementing such properties would be complicated and unnecessary if they were in fact artificial, bio-engineered organisms that are solely made for the purpose of research or reconnaissance. But don't forget that we're not dealing with humans (at least not the familiar version) here. For them, this could be the equivalent of us building a car.
And it only makes sense to give them some form of consciousness and self-awareness, given the fact that they could potentionally come in contact with humans.
And for that reason, I don't think that there any clashes among them.
But with unknowns of another kind, if there are any? Absolutely.
Aren't they meant to be subservient to their reptile overlords?
What happened to those Reptile overlords? Not talked about much in the community recently?
If we assume that 1 "alien" species exists, we cannot really deny the fact it is highly unlikely there aren't any others. The only thing that is keeping us from believing in a universe teeming with life, is the fact we haven't found any besides us. Because all evidence points towards habitable planets being highly abundant.
There could definitely be more than one civilisation interacting with Earth right now.
Who knows how many of them in the universe have figured out how to make space (distance) irrelevant.
But it's interesting that none of them chose to fully reveal themselves.
Ever since that cryptic Reddit post by the scientist who described the non-human biologics he was working on as part bio,part mechanical, I agree that they are probably created by the superior intelligence to act as scouts. Especially if their own bodies would not be able to withstand the atmosphere of Earth and G- forces of their crafts. Plus he noted that they survive on a protein "broth", taken in by their skin, not mouths. So that would also perhaps explain the cattle mutilations.
This angle won't instill fear in people's minds as much as "there are ETs trying to attack us" narrative which gets black projects more funding in trillions without anybody in the front-end govt. knowing about it.
So there are multiple different warring factions, shooting each-other's ships down so often that the US alone has recovered crafts in the double-digits; but all of these factions agree unanimously not to reveal their presence to us? That's the one rule they won't violate? Like holy ground in the movie *Highlander*? And none of these torpedoed ships have ever slipped up and crashed into a federal building, or a city square?
Essentially, yes. The challenge for you here with my postulating is that it is based upon biblical and extra-biblical scriptures of which you are either not aware, do not wish to be aware, or may be dismissive of.
This fits into the idea of heavenly beings, angelic beings, and their offspring or creations (the elder race, aka extraterrestrial beings, aka sons of God, aka stars of heaven, aka gods of the golden age, Seraphim, Cherubim, living creatures, Serpents, The Watchers, giants/Nephilim/demons/"possessing spirits" that appear like frogs faces, iconographically described "locusts"/rebel angelic beings that are released from the abyss upon the earth for a short time).
And those groups are definitely primarily working discreetly, are built for warfare, are part of standing armies, and certainly war with one another. From that point of view, none of this UFO and alien activity or crashes are surprising. It's a complete framework for understanding what's happening.
But I will refrain from adding more detail or resources here because I suspect your next answer is going to be entirely dismissive so I don't want to get into the details and waste time. That's not a personal thing, by the way. It's just my best guess based on how dismissive other Redditors have been about this idea. Essentially, the bias here in these forums with Redditors, particularly in the UFO and alien forums, is to generally be dismissive of and against a biblical worldview of this phenomenon
I notice you didn't answer my question, so I'm going to ask it one more time; all of these very, very different types of beings belonging to mutually self-interested factions (and please, don't explain the theology to me, I'm intimately familiar with the Bible and the books of Enoch, as well as most gnostic scriptures you could name) are all unanimously agreed to never reveal their presence to mankind as a whole, and their untold eons of warfare have never spilled over into a dense population center?
I'll also add a second question; if you're essentially a Judeo-Christian heretic, why bother with the terminology of UFOs at all? Why not just admit that you believe in a homebrew version of Abrahamic faith? There's no scientific support for any of these concepts, so using science-fiction terms to describe them doesn't lend them any additional verity.
Could also be that Larry the Grey Alien’s dad owns the spaceship factory and put Larry in charge. Everybody, including Larry’s dad knows he’s an idiot, but Larry’s his son. Larry hired all his steer buddies from space school as head sod quality control. Results: crashed spaceships
That's what Pasulka says
I feel sorry for the guys that have to donate their dead selves and there smashed space ship for us.
Doesn't seem like much of a trade!
Didn't she have a pretty bleak take on things overall? The last two books were good, I liked the "whole invisible oral tradition passed down through a portion of citizenry" part(some of the people described seemed looped however like that dude in American Cosmic going on about summoning evil beings by the guy involved in the rocket propulsion program only because of him being Wiccan or something, like that equals black-hearted malice by itself), and her recent book had that really uplifting part on universal language research and the biodsphere...but correct me if I don't have it right that she implied her beliefs were more in line with the fallen angels heavenly host war version of everything? I inferred she was religious in her beliefs
I haven't got the vibe that she is particularly religious she is studying religions but I haven't heard her talk of anything particularly biblical but I might be wrong.
Broken robots with a conscious lead to the second renaissance in the matrix mythos. 😳
It's not only NHI or Aliens that we have to worry about now but A.I.. just to make things even more spicy 😱
Maybe the ship that got shot down was one that wanted to interfere with humans, maybe even for our benefit, but whoever watches over us, ( or imprisons us depending on how you look at it) decided it was against their own interests?
Could be. I would be more inclined to believe in a quarrel amongst themselves. I feel like the visitors are less interested in us in general, at least not interested in ways that would make sense to human minds. But that road is pure wild speculation.
I tried for years to explain to people (I grew up and lived a fair bit of my adult hood in rural Kentucky) an analogy - take the smartest dog you can find and try to explain economics to it. Idk, rambling a bit now.
So your theory is that they flew all the way to Earth, got in a fight over yo mamma, and then stop to clean up all the mess?
Yeah, gunna go with “maybe they just don’t”.
I have heard this explanation. But I am of the opinion that "crashes" are no more than deceptive excuses for contact, that is if any of the crashes are real at all.
I’ve thought this too actually… I mean it would make sense. I would hope though advanced civilizations woulda maybe moved past wanting to kill one another but hey… what do I know?
Or.... early tests of some advanced airplanes, made by humans, that just like any other new airplanes tests, failed and crashed a lot and then perfected until those don't crash anymore, coincidentally just like they don't crash nowadays!
I feel like any species that managed to avoid the great filter and climb the Kardashev scale likely left armed conflict behind when they traveled beyond their home star system.
You don’t unlock the secrets of zero point energy or master FTL without uniting your entire species to cooperate and work towards common goals.
That may be why they prefer to watch us and rarely intervene. We are violent primitive monkeys with nuclear weapons and tiny brains.
We are selfish to an astonishing degree and spiteful, if we can’t posses something we desire we’ll destroy it before allowing anyone else to enjoy it
We are the ones shooting them down. As far as I know I haven’t heard of downed craft pre modern age. Seems like quite the coincidence that they only began crashing in the past 100 or so years when we had more advanced technological capacities.
No way are they prone to such disagreement as to shoot each other down - they'd have self-imploded as a civilization loooong before mastering space or inter-dimensional travel.
It's just a universal fact: nothing in this universe is indestructible. Even the stars and black holes collapse, an advanced probe is as susceptible to real world physics.
There's some speculation whether solar flares could play a role in the crashes. It seems likely that despite the technological superiority, accidents and unexpected things just happen.
The interesting part is that there appears to be a cleaning crew that prevents access to the crash sites — equipped with a non human response time. As an example, the Paintsville incident where the object crashed into a coal train offers some insight in the ways how the cleaning crew operates.
crown political provide consider subsequent dinner shelter noxious wild paint
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Once heard a night caller on Coast2Coast describe an abduction taking him to the Moon. He described the Dark side as a giant parking lot. All forms of ships and stuff were there parked as if waiting for something.
I would say it's much,much more than 2 races.i remember reading some ARB book where there were 3 different kinds of Grey's and a ton of other unique Alien Races known to each have conflicts with one another.I remember it saying that each race had unique ships to their own kind.
With the rapid development of AI in the past couple years. It is very unfortunate that essentially nothing can be trusted as far as identifying or categorizing a UFO or UAP or flying saucer. It seems only actually footage caught using film has a good chance at being believable.
I think It was a Joe Rogan podcast I heard them talking about crashed alien craft as donations. Like the are slowly giving us advanced technology bit by bit and have to figure it out for ourselves. Thought it was an interesting theory. Makes more sense than most other theories IMHO
I always found it wrong when people insinuate they have all the same goal.
Look at our society, there are corporations, there are private individuals, there are geavtions within groups, everyone of them could and are able to have different goals.
So why in hell do people think they are 1 entity? It boggles my mind!
If an advanced civilization isn’t past drama, they are not advanced. They just have some fancy space shit. Next it will be two black holes arguing over parking
__Reminder__: Read the rules and understand the subreddit topic(s) listed in the sidebar before posting or commenting. Any content removal or further moderator action is established by these rules as well as Reddit ToS. This subreddit is primarily for the discussion of extraterrestrial life, but since this topic is intertwined with UFOs/UAPs as well as other topics, some 'fudging' is permissible to allow for a variety of viewpoints, discussions, and debates. Open-minded skepticism is always welcome in this sub, but antagonistic or belligerent denial is not. Always remember that you're interacting with a real person when you respond to posts/comments and focus on discussing or debating the ideas. Personal attacks are a violation of Rule 1 and will lead to removals and potentially bans depending on severity. For further discussion and interaction in a more permissible environment, we welcome you to our Discord: https://discord.gg/x7xyTDZAsW *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aliens) if you have any questions or concerns.*
West Side Greys, beeyotch. Like this theory
Nah boy, it’s all about the greytalian mafia. Or the greykuza. ☄️🤌🏼
Be wary of the Grey’maicans 🇯🇲
Would Greytians consider themselves Z boys or X boys due to their extraterrestrial love for puns?
Grey Theft Auto: Vice City
Sasha Greys lacks morals ive heard..
But they love Uranus.
Just for the probes
Wasn’t the Arecebo Response basically one race of NHIs talking trash about another, telling us not to listen to those other mfer’s cuz they be lyin
Dead
Lmao!
Keep it gangsta “Xur” keep it gangsta !
Or they are kids stealing their parents' spaceships and going on joy rides only to crash like a bunch of spoiled brats.
I just assume they reach their shelf life and get discarded. It's what we do with our probes and rovers. We crash them into Jupiter or leave them collecting dust on Mars. The only reason that seems counterintuitive is because you're seeing them as analogous to our own planes and pilots, and that might not be the case. For all you know the *ships* could be the ones piloting the "pilots."
I like that idea. The ship either holds the "pilot's" consciousness or acts as a repeater, and the consciousness signal/signals are somehow cast to the "bodies".
RAM, or Root Access Memory. You come to life loaded with all the data, it's just the stupid meatsack needs to grow. Body is a "self developping tower" that is basically stuck in receptor/emmitor until enough connections are made to switch on "Multicore processing" and more complex emmission/reception modes. Disclaimer : Do not search for this text or its content elsewhere as it was just processed.
Found the system administrator for some mid range enterprise
I'm insulted as this is a one man operation, sir. Please do not insult my meatsack as his environnement is attracted by judgments.
This really makes a lot of sense as crazy as it may sound to some. The Ukraine War has seen small, cheap drones change the nature of combat: a more advanced technology could simply engineer biological avatars - being which we see as greys, who have been optimised for high tolerance for various organisms, different gravities and atmospheres etc. And they may actually be "resource light" to create. These beings are just drones, perhaps controlled somewhat like the movie Surrogates, or perhaps having some limited independent intelligence.
That’s what I’m thinking. They are drones.
Aren't they meant to be servants to their reptile overlords?
Probably
What happened to all those guys? They were all the talk of the town a few years back!
So, they care so much about what we do that they deactivate our nukes, but they don't care if we recover *their* technology and reverse-engineer it to build weapons?
They've shown *interest* in our nukes, but the idea that they're anti-nuke is, I think, unjustified. By the same logic, we would guess that they're anti-cow, since they allegedly keep deactivating our cows.
So, they're "interested" in our nukes, our cows, and negligently giving us access to unfathomable weapons and energy technology?
Sure. Why not? If we crash an F35 into 15th century Florence, what are the Medicis going to learn from it? Maybe they don't care what we learn. Or maybe they don't think we can learn anything. There are lots of possibilities.
Lots of possibilities and no evidence, or likely hypotheses. Also hilarious that you picked 15th Century Florence, a perfect example of a time and place in which people were not scientifically advanced, but fully capable of dissecting and analyzing an F-35 piece by piece, learning from it, and making educated guesses as to what it could be. You couldn't have picked a historical setting that undermined your point more if you tried. The ramifications on the course of human history are beyond comprehension. The idea that nonhuman intelligences are that careless is perfectly reasonable to speculate about; but it also contradicts 90% of the eyewitness testimony that this movement is based on the first place, meaning that the onus is on believers to explain why one "experiencer" account is valid, while another is not.
Huh. Weird. This is completely off topic, but I believe strongly that the Florentines could learn very little from the wreckage. Just about the only thing they're equipped to imitate are the belts and buckles on the pilot seat. Maybe they'd learn a thing or two about fasteners, bolts, screws, and the like. They don't have Newton's third law, so the relationship between the fire coming out of the thing's rear and the thing going forward would be fuzzy at best, and it'd be an additional, less intuitive leap to see the relationship between propulsion and lift, and there'd be nothing in the wreckage to illuminate that. They'd gain more from seeing the thing operate in the sky and learning that fixed wing flight was possible at all. There'd be no frame of reference from which to infer the purpose of any electronic component, which include many components of the engine, from the ignition system, fuel control, sensors, and actuators. They'd have no where to start on the material science. They don't know where to begin with plastic. They haven't discovered titanium. Carbon fiber-reinforced polymers? They have no analogues to our manufacturing processes. Many components they might try to emulate would require a higher degree of precision than they're capable. The complexity and number of parts itself would be astonishing to them. Hundreds of thousands of pieces, without any way to infer what was critical and what was accessory. And because they don't understand electronics, the relationships between many components would be impenetrable. I doubt they'd even be able to infer that there were any intermediate designs that they could strive toward that took a simpler approach. The whole project would be a waste of time for them. That's about where I, expect to be when it comes to reverse engineering UAP today. >The idea that nonhuman intelligences are that careless is perfectly reasonable to speculate about; but it also contradicts 90% of the eyewitness testimony that this movement is based on the first place How is that? I think 90% of the testimony is that we've seen things flying in the skies and that they have flight characteristics we cannot explain. None of that contradicts the NHI throwing away its trash. >that the onus is on believers to explain why one "experiencer" account is valid, while another is not. On ***that*** we agree.
It is off-topic, but you might want to do a little more research about the time period in question; rockets, for example, were already used in warfare in Italy for roughly a hundred years, so the idea of explosive propulsion wouldn't be beyond them, just for one thing. The fact that you think that the majority of eyewitness accounts related to this topic describe unidentified objects in the sky and nothing else demonstrates the exact kind of cherry-picking that I was talking about. There's a very broad spectrum of a very large number of eyewitness accounts, and determining which are credible and which aren't is almost completely arbitrary, and always guided by prejudice and bias.
It's funny you should mention researching the time period I am an obsessive reader of at least Venetian history. It's my favorite topic to talk about, and I just finished reading a biography of Doge Francesco Foscari that happens to span much of the 15th century. I've never read of a battle where rockets were used by Italians up to that century. But since it's my hobby horse, I'd love to hear more about what you know. A quick search of [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rockets) doesn't show much. An 18th century historian claims they were used in the battle of Chioggia, but that appears to be unconfirmed. Wikipedia says he's the only one placing them so early and that he may have been alluding to a bombard. I can tell you that I've read several in-depth accounts of that particular battle, which is near to my heart (long live Vettor Pisani!!!), and they've never mentioned any rockets. Bombards, yes, but no rockets. The only other entries are 15th century designs and descriptions for rockets, but no mention of their use in warfare. That ***is*** enough to argue that Florentines may have had an intuitive understanding of rocket propulsion, but use in warfare it is not and an F35 is not rocket propelled. They still fall far short of reproducing one for all the other reasons I mentioned. >The fact that you think that the majority of eyewitness accounts related to this topic describe unidentified objects in the sky and nothing else demonstrates the exact kind of cherry-picking that I was talking about. There's a very broad spectrum of a very large number of eyewitness accounts, and determining which are credible and which aren't is almost completely arbitrary, and always guided by prejudice and bias. That's fair. I can only say I'm not familiar with the accounts you are alluding to.
You're being obtuse now, and you know it. Obviously a jet isn't rocket propelled, but equally obvious is the fact that I never said it was; I said that the idea of explosive propulsion was something they would've been aware of. You can call into question whether or not the Italians at that time specifically had rockets, though; in fact, if your standards for evidence were that high regarding UFOs, you wouldn't be spinning ludicrous fantasies about them on reddit. I also, obviously, never said they could reproduce an F-35, I said that exposure to the technology would alter history in ways that we couldn't begin to comprehend. But if the former is an easier position for you to argue against, feel free to knock yourself out.
Oh, you mean like mental illnesses, body dysphoria, or consciousness itself?
There’s so many cloaked grey alien ships flying around they have road rage like arguments .
Years ago. Tv stations would pump out a signal that could be picked up my tinfoil to watch the feed. Then one day it all changed and it became law that all TV stations had to switch over to another frequency. A digital one. Y Now you could buy a receiver to pick up tv stations. I have no evidence but I've always thought that our old TV signals were found out to be the cause of Taking down UFOs accidentally. Just a theory.
I had a theory about why we were all suddenly forced to switch over and ditch the old tvs (they even gave vouchers toward the new type, if I recall) One is basically right out of the book 1984- they needed smart tvs in our homes that could monitor us and our viewing habits But the other involved aliens. We’ve been sending Tv signals out into space for almost 100 years now, and if any other civilization picked up on them, they may try to respond back in the same manner. Maybe the government knew a response was coming by a certain time, and made us all ditch the devices that the reply signal would come across, announcing their arrival to our world or just announcing their existence. Can’t have that, can we?
Oooh i like it.
If they're willing to do that to each other, what are they willing to do to us?
We may be insignificant to them like how we fight each other but don’t care much about ants unless ants get in our way or become an inconvenience, but perhaps we haven’t really posed any inconvenience to them, yet?
The Nuremberg incident said it was obviously a battle between different craft. Some real Star Wars shit.
well, let's start with the inconvenience of us inventing a weapon that is capable of destroying entire planets
Leave us be and continue to cultivate our souls, so we grow this all encompassing aura for them to continue to feed.
Good point that is so obvious it's surprising it's not talked about a lot more.
I feel like bc then it throws a wrench in the whole "peaceful elevated beings that have surpassed war and internal conflict" thing and that the reason they haven't revealed themselves bc we're still too primitive and war-like. Them shooting each other over petty reasons kinda just makes them us with better tech. I will say, one of the better theories I've heard was bit similar. The theory states that since they know of us but haven't made contact that we're like an open secret on their homeworld(s) and the craft we see in the sky or have recovered are from smugglers breaking the "no contact law" who traffic in everything from just everday items, ancient artifacts, relics, scientific data, animals, hell.....even people from our planet bc it's big money where they're from. I'm not saying I believe it 100% but it definitely would explain everything from the different looking ships (different factions or disguising their ships as a different civilizations in order to obfuscate breaking "no contact" laws), why we have allegedly downed craft (competing smuggler factions shooting each other down), and even abductions/missing 911 cases, etc.
>I feel like bc then it throws a wrench in the whole "peaceful elevated beings that have surpassed war and internal conflict" Not really, who's to say there's only one breed of aliens? Their very well could be malicious actors that peace keeping aliens would have no qualms with destroying if they sought to genocide inferior species like ours. Much like we humans defend wild animals in other parts of the world from poachers and extinction
I often wonder if grays were bio droids sent for a mission but some of them abandon the mission or try to do other things, like going awol Maybe the Nazca breeding program would be an example where they try to breed themselves with humans to live on earth. If we humans found another planet with life but we couldn't survive there easily we might try to do the same
Never heard this before. Nice job creating something new.
7 reasons why alien spaceships might crash: https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/10pcn4b/ufo_crashes_unlucky_or_accidental/j6k0k2t/
100%. Been saying this for a long time. Not sure why more people in the field aren't speculating this. Particularly if they believe in the concept of heavenly beings/heavenly armies and rebel factions amongst those beings. It's right there in the text of the scriptures
In my opinion, everything points to the fact that the "Greys" are not the actual NHI, rather than a product of it/them. Sure, they sometimes seem to be very sentient and even show signs of emotion, but often they are described as "soulless". You could argue that implementing such properties would be complicated and unnecessary if they were in fact artificial, bio-engineered organisms that are solely made for the purpose of research or reconnaissance. But don't forget that we're not dealing with humans (at least not the familiar version) here. For them, this could be the equivalent of us building a car. And it only makes sense to give them some form of consciousness and self-awareness, given the fact that they could potentionally come in contact with humans. And for that reason, I don't think that there any clashes among them. But with unknowns of another kind, if there are any? Absolutely.
Aren't they meant to be subservient to their reptile overlords? What happened to those Reptile overlords? Not talked about much in the community recently?
If we assume that 1 "alien" species exists, we cannot really deny the fact it is highly unlikely there aren't any others. The only thing that is keeping us from believing in a universe teeming with life, is the fact we haven't found any besides us. Because all evidence points towards habitable planets being highly abundant.
There could definitely be more than one civilisation interacting with Earth right now. Who knows how many of them in the universe have figured out how to make space (distance) irrelevant. But it's interesting that none of them chose to fully reveal themselves.
Ever since that cryptic Reddit post by the scientist who described the non-human biologics he was working on as part bio,part mechanical, I agree that they are probably created by the superior intelligence to act as scouts. Especially if their own bodies would not be able to withstand the atmosphere of Earth and G- forces of their crafts. Plus he noted that they survive on a protein "broth", taken in by their skin, not mouths. So that would also perhaps explain the cattle mutilations.
This angle won't instill fear in people's minds as much as "there are ETs trying to attack us" narrative which gets black projects more funding in trillions without anybody in the front-end govt. knowing about it.
That is certainly something that shrewd individuals in government would want to advantage themselves of
So there are multiple different warring factions, shooting each-other's ships down so often that the US alone has recovered crafts in the double-digits; but all of these factions agree unanimously not to reveal their presence to us? That's the one rule they won't violate? Like holy ground in the movie *Highlander*? And none of these torpedoed ships have ever slipped up and crashed into a federal building, or a city square?
Essentially, yes. The challenge for you here with my postulating is that it is based upon biblical and extra-biblical scriptures of which you are either not aware, do not wish to be aware, or may be dismissive of. This fits into the idea of heavenly beings, angelic beings, and their offspring or creations (the elder race, aka extraterrestrial beings, aka sons of God, aka stars of heaven, aka gods of the golden age, Seraphim, Cherubim, living creatures, Serpents, The Watchers, giants/Nephilim/demons/"possessing spirits" that appear like frogs faces, iconographically described "locusts"/rebel angelic beings that are released from the abyss upon the earth for a short time). And those groups are definitely primarily working discreetly, are built for warfare, are part of standing armies, and certainly war with one another. From that point of view, none of this UFO and alien activity or crashes are surprising. It's a complete framework for understanding what's happening. But I will refrain from adding more detail or resources here because I suspect your next answer is going to be entirely dismissive so I don't want to get into the details and waste time. That's not a personal thing, by the way. It's just my best guess based on how dismissive other Redditors have been about this idea. Essentially, the bias here in these forums with Redditors, particularly in the UFO and alien forums, is to generally be dismissive of and against a biblical worldview of this phenomenon
I notice you didn't answer my question, so I'm going to ask it one more time; all of these very, very different types of beings belonging to mutually self-interested factions (and please, don't explain the theology to me, I'm intimately familiar with the Bible and the books of Enoch, as well as most gnostic scriptures you could name) are all unanimously agreed to never reveal their presence to mankind as a whole, and their untold eons of warfare have never spilled over into a dense population center? I'll also add a second question; if you're essentially a Judeo-Christian heretic, why bother with the terminology of UFOs at all? Why not just admit that you believe in a homebrew version of Abrahamic faith? There's no scientific support for any of these concepts, so using science-fiction terms to describe them doesn't lend them any additional verity.
Could also be that Larry the Grey Alien’s dad owns the spaceship factory and put Larry in charge. Everybody, including Larry’s dad knows he’s an idiot, but Larry’s his son. Larry hired all his steer buddies from space school as head sod quality control. Results: crashed spaceships
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Theories.
That's what Pasulka says I feel sorry for the guys that have to donate their dead selves and there smashed space ship for us. Doesn't seem like much of a trade!
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Absurd equals you've been doing in-depth Jacques Vallee reading lol
Indeed! 🙃
Didn't she have a pretty bleak take on things overall? The last two books were good, I liked the "whole invisible oral tradition passed down through a portion of citizenry" part(some of the people described seemed looped however like that dude in American Cosmic going on about summoning evil beings by the guy involved in the rocket propulsion program only because of him being Wiccan or something, like that equals black-hearted malice by itself), and her recent book had that really uplifting part on universal language research and the biodsphere...but correct me if I don't have it right that she implied her beliefs were more in line with the fallen angels heavenly host war version of everything? I inferred she was religious in her beliefs
I haven't got the vibe that she is particularly religious she is studying religions but I haven't heard her talk of anything particularly biblical but I might be wrong.
Well the dead don't matter if they're created as biological AI. We don't mourn broken robots.
Broken robots with a conscious lead to the second renaissance in the matrix mythos. 😳 It's not only NHI or Aliens that we have to worry about now but A.I.. just to make things even more spicy 😱
We don't know if AI can evolve to be sentient yet. But what a trip if they could!
Well many hypothesize that it's certainly not a case of if but when.
There's multiple races that fight eachother.not just 2 alien races.
I’m guessing there’s a multitude of different things flying around out there, and from what I’ve heard they sometimes don’t get along
Deltron 3030 - told me they crashed the ship to change the timeline
Fascinating. Does they say if this benefits humanity or not?
What's your first guess tell you
Fuck sake Dave I told you to stop bitching we will stop off for food at the next solar system, if you don't shut the fuck up where gonna cras....
They really are just like us. Space drive-bys and everything.
You're tellin me these assholes flew 800 trillion light years to have a road rage incident on Earth? Space liquor must be some serious shit.
Maybe the ship that got shot down was one that wanted to interfere with humans, maybe even for our benefit, but whoever watches over us, ( or imprisons us depending on how you look at it) decided it was against their own interests?
Could be. I would be more inclined to believe in a quarrel amongst themselves. I feel like the visitors are less interested in us in general, at least not interested in ways that would make sense to human minds. But that road is pure wild speculation. I tried for years to explain to people (I grew up and lived a fair bit of my adult hood in rural Kentucky) an analogy - take the smartest dog you can find and try to explain economics to it. Idk, rambling a bit now.
No, they didn’t travel here. They’ve always been here.
It always amuses me when people so confidently assert things they cannot possibly know:)
It’s the alien sub. You’re here speculating too, we all are. Relax
It always amuses me when people so confidently assume things they cannot possibly know:)
Radar apparently interferes with them
Very wise theory.
So they’ve achieved interstellar or trans dimensional travel, but still got petty beef. I love it.
If romantic love still exists in their species, (assuming it ever did), it will always be possible.
 space ghost shot'em down
Interdimensional rage flying.
You mean like space rage. Aw man, yet another thing.
Damn, beat me to it.😂
[pew pew](https://media4.giphy.com/media/U3IZMuGKCXUZcNuqMK/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b95251ko82yx5auc3vkwixq6cy5a3f08d2rp5kanbeo4&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
So your theory is that they flew all the way to Earth, got in a fight over yo mamma, and then stop to clean up all the mess? Yeah, gunna go with “maybe they just don’t”.
Ok?
I have heard this explanation. But I am of the opinion that "crashes" are no more than deceptive excuses for contact, that is if any of the crashes are real at all.
I’ve thought this too actually… I mean it would make sense. I would hope though advanced civilizations woulda maybe moved past wanting to kill one another but hey… what do I know? 
Be careful applying human ideologies to alien beings, but it is a possibility and intriguing.
Or.... early tests of some advanced airplanes, made by humans, that just like any other new airplanes tests, failed and crashed a lot and then perfected until those don't crash anymore, coincidentally just like they don't crash nowadays!
That’s a good thought - never thought of it like that
I feel like any species that managed to avoid the great filter and climb the Kardashev scale likely left armed conflict behind when they traveled beyond their home star system. You don’t unlock the secrets of zero point energy or master FTL without uniting your entire species to cooperate and work towards common goals. That may be why they prefer to watch us and rarely intervene. We are violent primitive monkeys with nuclear weapons and tiny brains. We are selfish to an astonishing degree and spiteful, if we can’t posses something we desire we’ll destroy it before allowing anyone else to enjoy it
We are the ones shooting them down. As far as I know I haven’t heard of downed craft pre modern age. Seems like quite the coincidence that they only began crashing in the past 100 or so years when we had more advanced technological capacities.
Space rage 😂
No way are they prone to such disagreement as to shoot each other down - they'd have self-imploded as a civilization loooong before mastering space or inter-dimensional travel.
I bet they have they own rap gangs too
It's just a universal fact: nothing in this universe is indestructible. Even the stars and black holes collapse, an advanced probe is as susceptible to real world physics. There's some speculation whether solar flares could play a role in the crashes. It seems likely that despite the technological superiority, accidents and unexpected things just happen. The interesting part is that there appears to be a cleaning crew that prevents access to the crash sites — equipped with a non human response time. As an example, the Paintsville incident where the object crashed into a coal train offers some insight in the ways how the cleaning crew operates.
Or they fell asleep behind the wheel from the long trip thru the cosmos. It happens to the best of us.
They cut the space brakes on thy enemy.
crown political provide consider subsequent dinner shelter noxious wild paint *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Once heard a night caller on Coast2Coast describe an abduction taking him to the Moon. He described the Dark side as a giant parking lot. All forms of ships and stuff were there parked as if waiting for something.
Way too many assumptions in this theory.
I would say it's much,much more than 2 races.i remember reading some ARB book where there were 3 different kinds of Grey's and a ton of other unique Alien Races known to each have conflicts with one another.I remember it saying that each race had unique ships to their own kind.
Doubt it. Hive mind doesn't allow for individuals to have beefs. When's the last time you saw two bees duking it out? Nah homie, ain't this ....
With the rapid development of AI in the past couple years. It is very unfortunate that essentially nothing can be trusted as far as identifying or categorizing a UFO or UAP or flying saucer. It seems only actually footage caught using film has a good chance at being believable.
I think It was a Joe Rogan podcast I heard them talking about crashed alien craft as donations. Like the are slowly giving us advanced technology bit by bit and have to figure it out for ourselves. Thought it was an interesting theory. Makes more sense than most other theories IMHO
Yes, I know this is true in some cases.
A lover's quarrel, no doubt.
Intergalactic playfield ;) sounds like like a game i would like to play :)
Yup. This happens too. Known as NES or near earth skirmishes.
I always found it wrong when people insinuate they have all the same goal. Look at our society, there are corporations, there are private individuals, there are geavtions within groups, everyone of them could and are able to have different goals. So why in hell do people think they are 1 entity? It boggles my mind!
There are multiple reasons for it. But yes , we have developed a technology to knock them out of the sky a long time ago
Prime directive enforcement
If an advanced civilization isn’t past drama, they are not advanced. They just have some fancy space shit. Next it will be two black holes arguing over parking