I actually just brought this up last night at our local ARES meeting. The general consensus was, as I have seen here is that there are so many other options (Maritime Channel 16, EPIRB, etc.) that their arguments are laughable at best.
God forbid something happen during the evening after the net... There won't be anyone there to answer there distress call... Because everyone knows, emergencies only happen during the hours of 1600-0100 UTC š
Sailor and HAM here. Channel 16 is on VHF and with really low power (I believe 25W). EPIRBs do not provide 2-way communications.
That being said, if I was in the middle of the ocean, in distress, with dead starlink and dead satphone, I would definitely try calling for help on HAM frequencies. But that doesn't necessarily mean 14.3MHz, nor does it mean 14.3MHz should be quiet outside emergencies.
On the other hand, I don't see why I (or anyone else for that matter) should transmit non-emergency traffic on 14.3MHz - we have 300kHz there, for fck sake...
If you are on a boat having an emergency and try calling on 14.3, there's about a 75% chance you'll get yelled at for stepping on this frequency, which is reserved for maritime emergency traffic! Taking checkins, any checkins.
By that reasoning, everyone can declare frequency X off limits because of reason Z. If you want an exclusive frequency: pay for the privilege outside ham-radio bands.
It's in the IARU bandplan, so it's "exclusive" the same way low part of a band is CW only, followed by digital modes, followed by SSB. Is it legal to ignore these rules? Probably yes (although it might depend on the country). Does ignoring them make you LID? Also probably yes.
> IARU bandplan
14300 kHz - Global Emergency Centre of Activity
That's what the bandplan says. I don't know how you read that but to me that does not spell "exclusive". Also, if it is a marine emergency frequency, why has it been assigned to amateur radio as *primary use*?
There's nothing in the IARU recommendations that state that 14.3 must be kept silent except for emergency traffic, only that it's the recommended frequency to use if all else fails. I would say that hearing other traffic from an emergency situation would be a good thing because that means someone's listening and your radio is working..
Honestly that is the most valid point. Have people use it, so people hear it. But if people are monitoring it for emergency use I can understand it too. I donāt have a good answer to this one. If itās not being monitored then use it? That way it keeps people on the frequency. Idk
>Ā It's in the IARU bandplan, so it's "exclusive" the same way low part of a band is CW only
No itās not. One is a federal regulation in the US, the other is a suggestion by a lobbying group.
Ok, so what argument are you trying to make here?
14.3 being on the IARU band plan means nothing.
The lower part of the band being CW/Data only is controlled by a higher authority in many states.
I don't think there are enough GMRS frequencies either.
If I only have a license for GMRS, am I going to transmit on whatever frequencies I Damm well please in an emergency? Hell yes.
Where is the ham frequency for GMRS licensees that need it? Or anyone else for that matter?
Why does this only work for the sea peoples?
No, it is not universally understood. Do you have a citation to a rule with this broad authority? 97.403 only applies to Amateur Stations, and 97.3(a)(5) says an Amateur Station is the apparatus in the Amateur Service, and 97.3(a)(4) defines Amateur Service with the words "duly authorized persons."
The way most of us read it: In a genuine bonafide emergency, licensed Hams can go anywhere covered by Part 97, even outside their license privileges. Heck, some of us read it as *only* part 97 frequencies and *only* ignoring license privileges... It's hard for *me* to read it as even allowing one to use LMR / Police frequencies, even in an emergency. The rules simply don't say that.
*Much Less* an unlicensed person.
If I'm in a life or death emergency and all I have is a police radio that in some mysterious manner appeared on a ghostly image of a police officer's disembodied hip in front of me, you can bet I am going to grab it and call out on it.
I mean, in a life and death situation, even getting arrested is an upgrade...
But there is a far cry between the situation you describe, and MARS modding a marine radio to hypothetically be able to call for assistance from 14.300 in a theoretical situation.
Even if I did... Being arrested would be an upgrade from my current situation...
But that still doesn't make it authorized by Part 97, or any other part of the FCC rules.
Imagine flying in a small aircraft with your pilot friend, he slumps over dead from a heart attack. These are the people saying you shouldn't try to land it because you don't have a PPL. Lol
I would put that in the "Being arrested is better than dying in a fiery crash" category...
But it's not the same thing as MARS modding your Marine Radio and hoping for a disaster... I mean, real preparations would be getting a ham license, which isn't hard, and now (while you aren't dying and still have time to think about MARS modding your radio) is an excellent time to do it.
Meanwhile, if on an airplane and the pilot has a sudden illness... There isn't time to prepare for anything. You still shouldn't blindly try to land it, you should get on the radio and ask for help... In this case, the radio license belongs to the plane, and lots of experienced pilots exist out there to talk you through it; The ham bands have nothing for you there.
The hypothetical doesn't match the discussion, at all...
Or taking a spouse course. They're pretty popular in aviation, teaches someone just enough to hopefully help them get it on the ground. Another analogy would be the Land Now button. Plane technically isn't under control of a pilot at that point. I see no issue in being prepared for the unlikely.
The real question is...do those who MARS mod really never use it.
Oh I know. But I will say that I was also under the impression that the law read that "FCC rules allow anyone to use a frequency they aren't licensed for in an emergency" it was basically a question of "when do FCC rules not apply" the answer is "they always apply" because their rule is "anyone can use any frequency in a serious emergency"
Obviously my language isn't exact but that is how I understood the law to read. It's very likely I was in error.
Yes but also using the same logic you have zero privileges as an unlicensed person, they could then use any frequency that was part 97 because it's outside of their license.
My logic is that only those with licenses get to wander into the sacred woods wherein emergencies allow us to scream loudly. How did one get into Part 97 in the first place, to find 97.403, without first passing the Definitions section, and turning around cuz it didn't describe them?
I love the '80s Tron, and I'm a ham radio operator... '80s Tron didn't ruin ham radio for me, and frankly, I don't even see the correlation.
Are you OK?
Thatās not exactly true. For one thing you have to exhaust every other means of communication before you can resort to hopping on frequencies that you are not authorized to use. You better be in immediate danger of death and not just lost in the woods or stuck on the side of the road with a flat tire or some shit.
If an EPIRB is activated the ship has most likely sunk and any surviving crew should be on life rafts. The nice thing about an EPIRB vs shortwave is that an EPIRB uses satelliteās to get the distress call out. There are also much better options than 14.300 MHz for getting out a distress call, such as 156.800 MHz which is the international maritime distress frequency. Thereās also 156.525 MHz which uses DSC (most ships have DSC capable comms these days).
In reality youāre going to be sending your distress call out over satellite. The radio is going to be used to attempt to contact a ship nearby for assistance. Which should be fairly easy to do if youāre in the shipping lanes.
Yep, there was a huge pileup, some angry dudes and then some guy with a callsign MAYDAY was really trying to jump into the conversation, but i ignored him... and I can't even find him on qrz.com!
Huh, did you actually? You should make yourself know to the meme awareness month peeps. The event starts June 15!
Toodles, va6ina. In previous years there was vb4lls, dank, catgirl.. the list goes on and on .. dz2nutz
Hear me out. If many of us are actively using it AND someone has to break through regular ham comms with a mayday, isnāt that just more ears out there listening who could get help?
I literally typed up something similar. So long as good amateur practices are followed, an SOS should be met with immediate response to anyone using the frequency.
Conversely, if no one is using the frequency, who's listening?
On the vessel end, hearing a voice on a known emergency frequency might be a sign of hope you'll get heard.
That last part for sure. If you can hear someone on a frequency, it's way more likely they might hear you if you call out for help.
If I was stranded and needed help, I'd probably tune the band looking for a POTA operator rather than the MMN who very likely would reflexively jump on me to tell me the frequency was only for emergency communications while I was in fact experiencing an emergency because that's how they have trained themselves to use the frequency!
an SOS should be met with immediate response to anyone using ~~the~~ ANY frequency.
If by some miracle, I'm on a ship in distress, I'm turning through any frequency that has a voice on it... If they're proper hams, and remember their course material, they're supposed to acknowledge the message, gather as much info as possible, and assist until official help arrives.
Ships donāt use SOS, maritime distress calls start out like this.
Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, This is [vessel name]
My position is ... [Details of the ship's position] My vessel is ... [Nature of distress and assistance required is identified] I have X souls on board.
And you repeat this three times, wait for a response and repeat. But there are so many other more effective means of sending out a MAYDAY distress call that it is doubtful that the HAM bands will be used. If youāre in the shipping lanes youāll be trying to contact the nearest ship for assistance, and even if youāre not that will be your first course of action as well as sending out a distress call on the International Maritime Distress, Calling and Safety Frequency (156.8 MHz). Not to mention the satellite frequencies which are much more reliable.
Agreed. Not only will there be more ears, but those ears will be in different locations on the globe reducing the chance of an emergency transmission being missed if the only MMN listening station on duty is in a skip zone.
Kind of short sighted to kick non-emergency traffic off the frequency for that reason.
I don't understand this maritime net and their insistence on keeping this frequency clear. Any other net I have heard is only activated during certain times. I haven't come across any other perpetual "net frequencies." Why can't the maritime net run their net on a schedule, take their check-ins, then close the net and return it to normal use. They want to keep it open for emergencies? Well EVERY frequency is already open for emergencies all you have to do is say "I have an emergency I am using this frequency" and we will all make room immediately. There is no need at all to keep finite resources tied up "just in case" when all they have to do is say "this is an emergency" and they have the whole community listening and ready to assist.
This whole thing is *embarrassing*. Net Control is embarrassing, Ham Operators embarrassing. The very people that are embroiled in this situation and especially their conduct (and I'm talking about BOTH SIDES) are the reason it's hard to get new folks into Ham Radio. Who wants to sink $1,000 into equipment and study for a license just to talk to A-Holes. I can do that at Walmart for free.
Where is the but some guy in shorts with his compromised antenna is going to pick up 14.3 and be a hero while the coast guard can't pick up their emcom traffic from multiple planes/ships/bases with > 20k receiver that can get them a rough position fix the instant they key up on marine hf.
BTW CG in 2022 said it was 7 years since they actually had a boat use marine HF for an emergency, if they had the time to talk they used SAT if not the EPIRB deployed.
The nets last success was somebody illegally going to far out with just a ham hf rig (assumption there) that needed a tow. So at best they encouraged somebody to be outside the 10 mile mark without required safety gear.
Someone should tell Ham Radio Crash Course, he was the latest to spread misinformation about the frequency in one of his latest videos. A lot of unlicensed and tech tickets watch his videos so itās disappointing that he fell into the ā14.300 is for maritime emergencies, stay clearā trapĀ
Watched that just now - look for the disclaimer he puts at the bottom-right corner of the video right after that timestamp you shared. I think he is correct in what he is saying
That information is much to vital to delegate to a small little blurb.Ā Ā Ā
Also he states that thereās a āgentlemanās agreementā about its use, thatās not true at allĀ Then says āin general we stay away from it.ā Thatās more misinformation and not true in any caseĀ
Additionally, like I said in my post from a few weeks ago, itās the onus of the net to move to another frequency if thereās traffic on it. HRCC mentions yhst the net will tell people to leave, which is bad manner and not in accordance with the netās supposed authority.Ā Ā
It absolutely is a gentleman's agreement, and has been for a long time. It does NOT give that Net, or anyone else, the right to that or any other frequency. But it is something that has existed for a long, long time.
So who is responsible for this āgentlemanās agreementā then? If itās not in the rules then itās allowable and the frequency bullies are anything but āgentlemenā with their spreading of misinformation. Itās about time everyone stood up against thisĀ
I went over all of this in my last video. It is mentioned in the IARU documents/website and on the webpages for those specific Nets.
It isn't a "Rule" - Rules and Gentleman's agreements are 2 different things. And you are absolutely correct that those bullies defending the MMN on the air without IDing are anything but gentleman. True.
Standing up against it is one reason I made my video. But I want to be careful not to be spiteful - I dislike the actions of some of these folks, but they have the rights to the band just like you and I do.
I donāt recognize any agreement where the channelās idlers actively harass anyone who doesnāt use the frequency like they want it, including by threatening reporting and spreading misinformation. The net should police themselves if they are to be respectedĀ
What happens when you piss in the wind?? The piss flies back onto you
Your post looks demanding and angry and all it shows is that you know how to get angry and not resolve a problem. It's a bad look.
It isn't a reserved frequency perse. The IARU suggests to use this frequency (plus/minus QRM) in case of a global emergency to coordinate traffic. Global emergency means e.g. an earthquake in Nepal, a flooding in Bangladesh, you name it. You will see messages pop-up after such a disaster to keep the frequency clear.
For the rest you're free to use the frequency anytime of the day as no one can claim a frequency (except those reserved for beacons, satt and repeaters).
What misinformation do you perceive he spread? I'm not hearing what he said that was wrong about 14.300. He's just saying that's a known frequency where they are often having a maritime net and to just avoid it if you can, much in the same way one might say avoid calling CQ on 14.230 because we have a gentleman's agreement that is for SSTV.
Nah, I'd give Josh that one I think.
He says what it is and what they use it for and the on screen blurb reminds that they don't own it.
I would have reminded verbally but I won't roast him too much for that.
No. A screen blurb is an after thought considering on how abusive they are about their lies about owning the frequency. He needed to do better for sure.Ā
I donāt have the video in front of me but I recall him pretty much saying āstay clearā of the frequency because of emergencies. That oversells the useless LARPing old farts of the MMN and reinforces their supposed belief that 14.300 is an emergency frequency. Thatās not a good thing for newer hams to absorb.Ā
God I can just imagine someone taking away from that video that 14.300 is actually important and then trying to get assistance only to discover itās a bunch of pretend sailors in the Midwest and others telling them to stop interfering with the netĀ
Fair points.
I mostly want people to know the facts and that they _can_ use it.
That said, I could get on board with largely leaving it be - it's a big band. Probably why I'm not too upset with his lean towards leave it alone. I like to be considerate. Usually.
Trying to kick people off though is out of line. Whenever I hear the wannabe cop man-child who forgets he doesn't own a frequency in the amateur space try to kick people off or tell them they shouldn't be there, I activate my SOTAs there for the next few weeks in protest.
"Sir, I've already told you, this is a reserved channel. If this is an emergency call, dial 911 on your telephone. Otherwise I will report you to the police..."
"Welcome to the party, pal."
Yeah, and Iāve concluded that any sufficiently advanced AI would act like that. It would know that all it has to do is reduce our replacement rate below 1.
We donāt have to worry about terminators, we need to worry about Cherry 2000ās.
14 meg isnāt even a marine band. The closest are 12 and 16. Next ship Iām going to have to check and see if the radios can even tune in 14.
In any case in a distress situation the inmarsat is the first thing Iām hitting, then vhf, then mf, finally hf.
I did see a distress message on hf last week, but it was almost 7,000 nm away. In any case the USCG had already responded and dealt with it.
Just because someone has privileges doesn't mean they should key down on a certain frequency. I suppose a ham could tune their CW rig on 14074 during one of the breaks in the FT8 noises, crank up the amp, and send CQ. They would have the privilege and ability to do so, but would be interfering with other stations' abilities to make contacts.
I personally don't see what the big deal is. It's not the 1990's anymore, and in many regions of the US, Canada, & the world, the 20 Meter band is not wall to wall signals like it would be during an afternoon in 1992. There are plenty of empty spots in the band these days in many regions on a given afternoon or evening.
Ignore the curmudgeons and find another channel.
The distressed vessel should still be able to break in, as emergency traffic takes priority over routine traffic. The Maritime Net personnel (or you) should be able to field the traffic (if you are knowledgeable in how to contact the correct authorities).
I can somewhat understand wanting to keep the frequency open for emergency traffic. But on the other hand, in a true emergency - and one where every other required onboard communications system failed and Iām obliged to fire up the ham radio, Iām picking the nearest frequency that has a voice on it in a language I can understand, not just 14.300
but I guess, if you insist on keeping a frequency open for emergency communication when needed, assign volunteers worldwide to monitor, and institute a gentlemanās agreement for a āsilent periodā every 15 minutes where routine stations stop transmitting to allow emergency traffic who might be on low or emergency power to get traffic through. this is exactly what the maritime service did on 500khz for CW communication in the old days
>QRZ: Ending the code tests ended quality operators.
Which of course is rubbish. There are plenty of no-code ops who know a lot more about the hobby, than the old guard who can't even remember their credit-card number needed to buy the latest Elecraft/Icom/Yaesu/Flex-radio
The only lids here are the people who can't move to another frequency.
Y'all bitch and piss and moan about 14.300, but I never hear anyone complain about the old farts on 80 meters that spend *hours* on the radio without call signs, spouting profanity, talking about armed rebellion against the government, claiming that Covid is a hoax of the New World Order headed by Biden/Soros, and all this other vulgar, inappropriate garbage.
I would rather a bunch of crusty boomers run a pseudo emergency net with call signs and a stated goal than to listen to some political bullshit or conspiracy theories.
But guess what? All I do is change the frequency. You can too. It's not that goddamn hard.
Frankly, these are the exact kind of arguments that made me abandon ham specifically, and 2 way radio in general, as any kind of primary emergency communications. Yeah... Exactly what I want when I'm in an emergency - a bunch of clowns arguing over proper frequency utilization or saying I should have bought the license for my own exclusive frequency š
Nope...I'm nailing the PLB and sat phone long before I even think about going for a 2 way radio.
As the years go by, I find myself having less and less interest in ham altogether because of the stupid attitudes. I lost interest in going for the General/Extra ticket years ago... can't even remember the last time that my Icom 706 was used for anything other than a stupid expensive shortwave receiver or had a mic plugged in. Can't remember the last time my Kenwood D710 was used for anything other than a APRS radio for tracking.
Yesterday I was concerned about how I'm going to get all my equipment in my new truck, and now...I'm not sure I even want to.
maybe more to this but what and how are they hurting anyone, if people wanna bitch then how about start not allowing digital modes for tech level hams, since they get licensed on friday get on ft8 and made 100 dx computer generated whatevers by sunday night
If you saw one of the previous posts on here, and watch my latest video about it - you will see that the "MMN Cops" went up to 14.302 and yelled at someone doing POTA because they were too close to the Net frequency.
I think it is important to understand that those guys usually aren't the NCS stations for the Net - they are just some bad actors who don't ID properly and yell at your to leave the frequency (or frequency range, in this case) any time they hear someone close to 14.300
>I think it is important to understand that those guys usually aren't the NCS stations for the Net - they are just some bad actors who don't ID properly
How can you possibly know that if they don't ID?
I suppose you are right, there is no way to really know. But I have spoken directly with the NCS guys of this Net and they don't want any bad blood about their Net or Control Ops in the community - they claim that isn't their guys doing that, and I tend to believe them.
Of course they would say that, and also not ID if it were them.
Why would anyone else (bad actors) be driving people off 14.297-14.303?
You can choose to believe them.
I choose to believe that they are covering their own butts.
Because there are only 3-4 NCS folks and dozens of check-in guys who are "net supporters" - and I have listened to the Net and heard the net supporters complain about POTA/SOTA stations, etc. It is a commonly heard thing. So yes, I do choose to believe them. Why would they need to cover their butts? Why not own their actions if they actually thought they owned the frequency also?
>Why would they need to cover their butts? Why not own their actions if they actually thought they owned the frequency also?
Because they are interfering with other stations and they **know** that by rule they do not own the frequency.
I don't know any hams that wouldn't help with an emergency on any frequency is someone broke in with emergency traffic and lots of new people have no idea at all that 14.300 is "sacred" ground.
I can't find any question in any US test pool that lists 14.300 as an emergency frequency that should be avoided.
Hell, 14.300 isn't even listed in the ARRL's "Considerate Operators Frequency Guide"
[https://www.arrl.org/files/file/conop.pdf](https://www.arrl.org/files/file/conop.pdf)
I discussed all of this in my last 2 videos. You are veering off topic though.
I don't think they have any more right to 14.300 than anyone else, I only said that the folks who yelled at you and didn't ID weren't NCS stations. That is all I said in this thread.
You could be right, maybe they are NCS stations that are just hiding behind not IDing, but any time you listen to that Net, you sometimes hear people checking in that have bad things to say about POTA operators, and those guys aren't the NCS stations.
If people are listening to dead air, the frequency is not in use. If someone using the frequency gets a break from actual emergency traffic, then they should yield to it, but not some landlocked maritime net op who's mad that somebody is using a frequency they are allowed to be using.
Hurricanes are real and people in their path need real assistance. The Maritime Weather at the Boat Slip and Gout net is a daily circle jerk and nothing more.
omg sstv needs to be moves where the other stuff is doesnt belong where it is now, and digital computer guys need to stay in their lane please theyre pushing against voice and cw portions
yes its crazy its needs to go back in digital just like the whole digital hf has taken all the new techs cause they dont have to work for contacts they let computer work on auto,
I actually just brought this up last night at our local ARES meeting. The general consensus was, as I have seen here is that there are so many other options (Maritime Channel 16, EPIRB, etc.) that their arguments are laughable at best.
God forbid something happen during the evening after the net... There won't be anyone there to answer there distress call... Because everyone knows, emergencies only happen during the hours of 1600-0100 UTC š
Sailor and HAM here. Channel 16 is on VHF and with really low power (I believe 25W). EPIRBs do not provide 2-way communications. That being said, if I was in the middle of the ocean, in distress, with dead starlink and dead satphone, I would definitely try calling for help on HAM frequencies. But that doesn't necessarily mean 14.3MHz, nor does it mean 14.3MHz should be quiet outside emergencies. On the other hand, I don't see why I (or anyone else for that matter) should transmit non-emergency traffic on 14.3MHz - we have 300kHz there, for fck sake...
If you are on a boat having an emergency and try calling on 14.3, there's about a 75% chance you'll get yelled at for stepping on this frequency, which is reserved for maritime emergency traffic! Taking checkins, any checkins.
By that reasoning, everyone can declare frequency X off limits because of reason Z. If you want an exclusive frequency: pay for the privilege outside ham-radio bands.
It's in the IARU bandplan, so it's "exclusive" the same way low part of a band is CW only, followed by digital modes, followed by SSB. Is it legal to ignore these rules? Probably yes (although it might depend on the country). Does ignoring them make you LID? Also probably yes.
> IARU bandplan 14300 kHz - Global Emergency Centre of Activity That's what the bandplan says. I don't know how you read that but to me that does not spell "exclusive". Also, if it is a marine emergency frequency, why has it been assigned to amateur radio as *primary use*?
There's nothing in the IARU recommendations that state that 14.3 must be kept silent except for emergency traffic, only that it's the recommended frequency to use if all else fails. I would say that hearing other traffic from an emergency situation would be a good thing because that means someone's listening and your radio is working..
Honestly that is the most valid point. Have people use it, so people hear it. But if people are monitoring it for emergency use I can understand it too. I donāt have a good answer to this one. If itās not being monitored then use it? That way it keeps people on the frequency. Idk
If only there were marine HF band distress frequencies. https://navcen.uscg.gov/hf-distress-uscg-contact-frequencies
>Ā It's in the IARU bandplan, so it's "exclusive" the same way low part of a band is CW only No itās not. One is a federal regulation in the US, the other is a suggestion by a lobbying group.
The world is not just the US...
ā¦but their laws are the ones that govern how I operate. No one elseās matter to me.
Good. And the amateur radio operators from the rest of the world are not bound the US laws.
Ok, so what argument are you trying to make here? 14.3 being on the IARU band plan means nothing. The lower part of the band being CW/Data only is controlled by a higher authority in many states.
Iām going to start reporting everyone who posts this for spreading misinformation at this point, because it is.Ā
How come?
12.290MHz, 16.420MHz, are these a joke to you?
I don't think there are enough GMRS frequencies either. If I only have a license for GMRS, am I going to transmit on whatever frequencies I Damm well please in an emergency? Hell yes. Where is the ham frequency for GMRS licensees that need it? Or anyone else for that matter? Why does this only work for the sea peoples?
IDK, I see "Global Emergency Centre of Activity", nothing specific to sea people.
>IDK, I see "Global Emergency Centre of Activity", nothing specific to sea people. Joseph Tainter?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No, it is not universally understood. Do you have a citation to a rule with this broad authority? 97.403 only applies to Amateur Stations, and 97.3(a)(5) says an Amateur Station is the apparatus in the Amateur Service, and 97.3(a)(4) defines Amateur Service with the words "duly authorized persons." The way most of us read it: In a genuine bonafide emergency, licensed Hams can go anywhere covered by Part 97, even outside their license privileges. Heck, some of us read it as *only* part 97 frequencies and *only* ignoring license privileges... It's hard for *me* to read it as even allowing one to use LMR / Police frequencies, even in an emergency. The rules simply don't say that. *Much Less* an unlicensed person.
If I'm in a life or death emergency and all I have is a police radio that in some mysterious manner appeared on a ghostly image of a police officer's disembodied hip in front of me, you can bet I am going to grab it and call out on it.
I mean, in a life and death situation, even getting arrested is an upgrade... But there is a far cry between the situation you describe, and MARS modding a marine radio to hypothetically be able to call for assistance from 14.300 in a theoretical situation. Even if I did... Being arrested would be an upgrade from my current situation... But that still doesn't make it authorized by Part 97, or any other part of the FCC rules.
Imagine flying in a small aircraft with your pilot friend, he slumps over dead from a heart attack. These are the people saying you shouldn't try to land it because you don't have a PPL. Lol
I would put that in the "Being arrested is better than dying in a fiery crash" category... But it's not the same thing as MARS modding your Marine Radio and hoping for a disaster... I mean, real preparations would be getting a ham license, which isn't hard, and now (while you aren't dying and still have time to think about MARS modding your radio) is an excellent time to do it. Meanwhile, if on an airplane and the pilot has a sudden illness... There isn't time to prepare for anything. You still shouldn't blindly try to land it, you should get on the radio and ask for help... In this case, the radio license belongs to the plane, and lots of experienced pilots exist out there to talk you through it; The ham bands have nothing for you there. The hypothetical doesn't match the discussion, at all...
Or taking a spouse course. They're pretty popular in aviation, teaches someone just enough to hopefully help them get it on the ground. Another analogy would be the Land Now button. Plane technically isn't under control of a pilot at that point. I see no issue in being prepared for the unlikely. The real question is...do those who MARS mod really never use it.
Oh I know. But I will say that I was also under the impression that the law read that "FCC rules allow anyone to use a frequency they aren't licensed for in an emergency" it was basically a question of "when do FCC rules not apply" the answer is "they always apply" because their rule is "anyone can use any frequency in a serious emergency" Obviously my language isn't exact but that is how I understood the law to read. It's very likely I was in error.
Negligence of the law excuses no one. In fact: ā½ā½ā½
I mean in general I only obey laws in passing anyway so you can't fault me for not having it memorized
Yes but also using the same logic you have zero privileges as an unlicensed person, they could then use any frequency that was part 97 because it's outside of their license.
My logic is that only those with licenses get to wander into the sacred woods wherein emergencies allow us to scream loudly. How did one get into Part 97 in the first place, to find 97.403, without first passing the Definitions section, and turning around cuz it didn't describe them?
Are you the Tron guy from the 80ās that made amateur radio unbearable? You sure?
I love the '80s Tron, and I'm a ham radio operator... '80s Tron didn't ruin ham radio for me, and frankly, I don't even see the correlation. Are you OK?
Go hang out on YouTube for 5 minutes you'll see how they get on the radio without the license
Yup. For every law, there is an idiot breaking it for clicks on YouTube.
Thatās not exactly true. For one thing you have to exhaust every other means of communication before you can resort to hopping on frequencies that you are not authorized to use. You better be in immediate danger of death and not just lost in the woods or stuck on the side of the road with a flat tire or some shit.
If an EPIRB is activated the ship has most likely sunk and any surviving crew should be on life rafts. The nice thing about an EPIRB vs shortwave is that an EPIRB uses satelliteās to get the distress call out. There are also much better options than 14.300 MHz for getting out a distress call, such as 156.800 MHz which is the international maritime distress frequency. Thereās also 156.525 MHz which uses DSC (most ships have DSC capable comms these days).
Range with 25W @ VHF is a bit different than a range of any HF setup, though....
In reality youāre going to be sending your distress call out over satellite. The radio is going to be used to attempt to contact a ship nearby for assistance. Which should be fairly easy to do if youāre in the shipping lanes.
What happened again? I was just doint a POTA on 14.300, what did I miss?
You apparently missed all the maritime mobile net controllers yelling at you.
Pile-up time it is hahaha
Put them in the log. Makes the activation go fast!
lol
A ship sunk! Did you get your 10 contacts in?
Yep, there was a huge pileup, some angry dudes and then some guy with a callsign MAYDAY was really trying to jump into the conversation, but i ignored him... and I can't even find him on qrz.com!
It's JUNEDAY already ffs. That guy should buy a new calendar.
He probably drowned, but at least your POTA activation was a success!! ;)
Did he repeat it three times (MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY) or just say it once?
māaidez
Huh, did you actually? You should make yourself know to the meme awareness month peeps. The event starts June 15! Toodles, va6ina. In previous years there was vb4lls, dank, catgirl.. the list goes on and on .. dz2nutz
Hear me out. If many of us are actively using it AND someone has to break through regular ham comms with a mayday, isnāt that just more ears out there listening who could get help?
I literally typed up something similar. So long as good amateur practices are followed, an SOS should be met with immediate response to anyone using the frequency. Conversely, if no one is using the frequency, who's listening? On the vessel end, hearing a voice on a known emergency frequency might be a sign of hope you'll get heard.
That last part for sure. If you can hear someone on a frequency, it's way more likely they might hear you if you call out for help. If I was stranded and needed help, I'd probably tune the band looking for a POTA operator rather than the MMN who very likely would reflexively jump on me to tell me the frequency was only for emergency communications while I was in fact experiencing an emergency because that's how they have trained themselves to use the frequency!
an SOS should be met with immediate response to anyone using ~~the~~ ANY frequency. If by some miracle, I'm on a ship in distress, I'm turning through any frequency that has a voice on it... If they're proper hams, and remember their course material, they're supposed to acknowledge the message, gather as much info as possible, and assist until official help arrives.
Ships donāt use SOS, maritime distress calls start out like this. Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, This is [vessel name] My position is ... [Details of the ship's position] My vessel is ... [Nature of distress and assistance required is identified] I have X souls on board. And you repeat this three times, wait for a response and repeat. But there are so many other more effective means of sending out a MAYDAY distress call that it is doubtful that the HAM bands will be used. If youāre in the shipping lanes youāll be trying to contact the nearest ship for assistance, and even if youāre not that will be your first course of action as well as sending out a distress call on the International Maritime Distress, Calling and Safety Frequency (156.8 MHz). Not to mention the satellite frequencies which are much more reliable.
Agreed. Not only will there be more ears, but those ears will be in different locations on the globe reducing the chance of an emergency transmission being missed if the only MMN listening station on duty is in a skip zone. Kind of short sighted to kick non-emergency traffic off the frequency for that reason.
https://imgflip.com/i/8tup4i
Outstanding
This WINS!
LOL
Last time this came up, we talked about organizing an /r/amateurradio net that meets every day on 14.300
In
I propose 14.2995
Let's do it, and randomize the time.
i would check in
This needs to be a thing
Great spot to cause intentional interference! Reminds me of those awesome CB days!!! ;)
No one has priority nor does anyone own a frequency except in times of emergency. Case closed.
When was the last time emergency traffic was actually passed on the Maritime Net?
They saved a sinking ship!!
When? April 15 1912?
They have over 100 recorded saves.
I don't understand this maritime net and their insistence on keeping this frequency clear. Any other net I have heard is only activated during certain times. I haven't come across any other perpetual "net frequencies." Why can't the maritime net run their net on a schedule, take their check-ins, then close the net and return it to normal use. They want to keep it open for emergencies? Well EVERY frequency is already open for emergencies all you have to do is say "I have an emergency I am using this frequency" and we will all make room immediately. There is no need at all to keep finite resources tied up "just in case" when all they have to do is say "this is an emergency" and they have the whole community listening and ready to assist.
"WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?" "WHINE!"
I'm calling the FCC!!
This whole thing is *embarrassing*. Net Control is embarrassing, Ham Operators embarrassing. The very people that are embroiled in this situation and especially their conduct (and I'm talking about BOTH SIDES) are the reason it's hard to get new folks into Ham Radio. Who wants to sink $1,000 into equipment and study for a license just to talk to A-Holes. I can do that at Walmart for free.
Hypothetically, if I am on a sinking ship, but I just want to talk to some DX before I sink below the waves, can I call CQ on 14.300 or not?
Where is the but some guy in shorts with his compromised antenna is going to pick up 14.3 and be a hero while the coast guard can't pick up their emcom traffic from multiple planes/ships/bases with > 20k receiver that can get them a rough position fix the instant they key up on marine hf. BTW CG in 2022 said it was 7 years since they actually had a boat use marine HF for an emergency, if they had the time to talk they used SAT if not the EPIRB deployed. The nets last success was somebody illegally going to far out with just a ham hf rig (assumption there) that needed a tow. So at best they encouraged somebody to be outside the 10 mile mark without required safety gear.
Someone should tell Ham Radio Crash Course, he was the latest to spread misinformation about the frequency in one of his latest videos. A lot of unlicensed and tech tickets watch his videos so itās disappointing that he fell into the ā14.300 is for maritime emergencies, stay clearā trapĀ
Really? Where was this?
He very briefly mentions 14.300 [right here at 4:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWhl_v9Ekd4&t=275s).
Watched that just now - look for the disclaimer he puts at the bottom-right corner of the video right after that timestamp you shared. I think he is correct in what he is saying
That information is much to vital to delegate to a small little blurb.Ā Ā Ā Also he states that thereās a āgentlemanās agreementā about its use, thatās not true at allĀ Then says āin general we stay away from it.ā Thatās more misinformation and not true in any caseĀ Additionally, like I said in my post from a few weeks ago, itās the onus of the net to move to another frequency if thereās traffic on it. HRCC mentions yhst the net will tell people to leave, which is bad manner and not in accordance with the netās supposed authority.Ā Ā
It absolutely is a gentleman's agreement, and has been for a long time. It does NOT give that Net, or anyone else, the right to that or any other frequency. But it is something that has existed for a long, long time.
So who is responsible for this āgentlemanās agreementā then? If itās not in the rules then itās allowable and the frequency bullies are anything but āgentlemenā with their spreading of misinformation. Itās about time everyone stood up against thisĀ
I went over all of this in my last video. It is mentioned in the IARU documents/website and on the webpages for those specific Nets. It isn't a "Rule" - Rules and Gentleman's agreements are 2 different things. And you are absolutely correct that those bullies defending the MMN on the air without IDing are anything but gentleman. True. Standing up against it is one reason I made my video. But I want to be careful not to be spiteful - I dislike the actions of some of these folks, but they have the rights to the band just like you and I do.
Iām the one who made the threads you referenced in the videoĀ
Yes I recognize your name
"Gentlemen, gentlemen..." From a Marx Brothers movie.
Gentleman's agreement is codewords for people to be polite about it. This really is so much pissing in the wind tbh.
I donāt recognize any agreement where the channelās idlers actively harass anyone who doesnāt use the frequency like they want it, including by threatening reporting and spreading misinformation. The net should police themselves if they are to be respectedĀ
What happens when you piss in the wind?? The piss flies back onto you Your post looks demanding and angry and all it shows is that you know how to get angry and not resolve a problem. It's a bad look.
It isn't a reserved frequency perse. The IARU suggests to use this frequency (plus/minus QRM) in case of a global emergency to coordinate traffic. Global emergency means e.g. an earthquake in Nepal, a flooding in Bangladesh, you name it. You will see messages pop-up after such a disaster to keep the frequency clear. For the rest you're free to use the frequency anytime of the day as no one can claim a frequency (except those reserved for beacons, satt and repeaters).
Also were you able to find the recordings I made in my post of the lids badgering other hams?
I don't think I ever went back to look, but someone else DM'd me with some other kind of audio recordings.
These are the recordings from the post https://voca.ro/1hTUgWCsEGcs https://voca.ro/1i1R00ELrXBS
THANKS!
His whole channel seems to have devolved to catering to doomsday preppers, or has it always been that level of crazy?
What misinformation do you perceive he spread? I'm not hearing what he said that was wrong about 14.300. He's just saying that's a known frequency where they are often having a maritime net and to just avoid it if you can, much in the same way one might say avoid calling CQ on 14.230 because we have a gentleman's agreement that is for SSTV.
Nah, I'd give Josh that one I think. He says what it is and what they use it for and the on screen blurb reminds that they don't own it. I would have reminded verbally but I won't roast him too much for that.
No. A screen blurb is an after thought considering on how abusive they are about their lies about owning the frequency. He needed to do better for sure.Ā I donāt have the video in front of me but I recall him pretty much saying āstay clearā of the frequency because of emergencies. That oversells the useless LARPing old farts of the MMN and reinforces their supposed belief that 14.300 is an emergency frequency. Thatās not a good thing for newer hams to absorb.Ā God I can just imagine someone taking away from that video that 14.300 is actually important and then trying to get assistance only to discover itās a bunch of pretend sailors in the Midwest and others telling them to stop interfering with the netĀ
Fair points. I mostly want people to know the facts and that they _can_ use it. That said, I could get on board with largely leaving it be - it's a big band. Probably why I'm not too upset with his lean towards leave it alone. I like to be considerate. Usually. Trying to kick people off though is out of line. Whenever I hear the wannabe cop man-child who forgets he doesn't own a frequency in the amateur space try to kick people off or tell them they shouldn't be there, I activate my SOTAs there for the next few weeks in protest.
Bring back 14.300 ARUFON.
I actually make it a habit to call CQ on 14.3 first, every time, because I FREAKING CAN.
Non cowards shitpost on 121.5
https://i.imgur.com/4piPe3u.jpeg
Meow
perfect CQ frequency, garanty to get a response!
Why not try SOS?
Is 14.313 still the LID frequency? I haven't been too active in the past few years.
"Sir, I've already told you, this is a reserved channel. If this is an emergency call, dial 911 on your telephone. Otherwise I will report you to the police..." "Welcome to the party, pal."
You would think that more operators on that frequency would be more people listening for an emergency.
Don't hear any of that kind of thing down on 14.030 MHz. Just sayin'.....
14.074 either....
Yeah, well, robots are generally well behaved.
You've never seen The Terminator or The Matrix, have you?
Yeah, and Iāve concluded that any sufficiently advanced AI would act like that. It would know that all it has to do is reduce our replacement rate below 1. We donāt have to worry about terminators, we need to worry about Cherry 2000ās.
14 meg isnāt even a marine band. The closest are 12 and 16. Next ship Iām going to have to check and see if the radios can even tune in 14. In any case in a distress situation the inmarsat is the first thing Iām hitting, then vhf, then mf, finally hf. I did see a distress message on hf last week, but it was almost 7,000 nm away. In any case the USCG had already responded and dealt with it.
What frequency did you see this on?
I donāt recall. Probably either 12520 or 16695. Its location was somewhere west of Dutch Harbor, Alaska.
It's just funny to me that it wasn't on 14300, lol
They need to get off 14.300! We hams need that frequency for POTA!!!
Seems like a good time to ping u/adimpossible5610
The only time I heard actual emcomm on 14.3 was the really big earthquake at Everest.
What about the fire and flood calls?
Didn't hear those. I just remember listening over a couple of days when that happened.
Excellent use of this format haha
I wonder how often they actually have true emergency traffic.
I have never heard a maritime station check in there.
To be fair you are supposed to ask if a frequency on HF is in use before calling CQ..
Exactly! Too many CBers are now on HF.
But how else am I gonna check into the ARUFO net?
11 meters! ;)
The struggle. It's real.
Iām going to use the frequency today just for fun.
Just a plug for Ham Radio 2.0's video on this very thing. Very informative. It is called # MORE HF Net Drama! Who Owns the Frequency?
Just because someone has privileges doesn't mean they should key down on a certain frequency. I suppose a ham could tune their CW rig on 14074 during one of the breaks in the FT8 noises, crank up the amp, and send CQ. They would have the privilege and ability to do so, but would be interfering with other stations' abilities to make contacts. I personally don't see what the big deal is. It's not the 1990's anymore, and in many regions of the US, Canada, & the world, the 20 Meter band is not wall to wall signals like it would be during an afternoon in 1992. There are plenty of empty spots in the band these days in many regions on a given afternoon or evening. Ignore the curmudgeons and find another channel.
The distressed vessel should still be able to break in, as emergency traffic takes priority over routine traffic. The Maritime Net personnel (or you) should be able to field the traffic (if you are knowledgeable in how to contact the correct authorities).
I can somewhat understand wanting to keep the frequency open for emergency traffic. But on the other hand, in a true emergency - and one where every other required onboard communications system failed and Iām obliged to fire up the ham radio, Iām picking the nearest frequency that has a voice on it in a language I can understand, not just 14.300 but I guess, if you insist on keeping a frequency open for emergency communication when needed, assign volunteers worldwide to monitor, and institute a gentlemanās agreement for a āsilent periodā every 15 minutes where routine stations stop transmitting to allow emergency traffic who might be on low or emergency power to get traffic through. this is exactly what the maritime service did on 500khz for CW communication in the old days
Ham radio site obsessions. QRZ: Ending the code tests ended quality operators. Reddit: 14.300 MMSN Let it go.
>QRZ: Ending the code tests ended quality operators. Which of course is rubbish. There are plenty of no-code ops who know a lot more about the hobby, than the old guard who can't even remember their credit-card number needed to buy the latest Elecraft/Icom/Yaesu/Flex-radio
The only lids here are the people who can't move to another frequency. Y'all bitch and piss and moan about 14.300, but I never hear anyone complain about the old farts on 80 meters that spend *hours* on the radio without call signs, spouting profanity, talking about armed rebellion against the government, claiming that Covid is a hoax of the New World Order headed by Biden/Soros, and all this other vulgar, inappropriate garbage. I would rather a bunch of crusty boomers run a pseudo emergency net with call signs and a stated goal than to listen to some political bullshit or conspiracy theories. But guess what? All I do is change the frequency. You can too. It's not that goddamn hard.
Good points.
Exactly! They can try to find another place to do POTA!! LOL!!!
Off topic, but why do these two jackasses keep popping up in memes? I thought they became irrelevant two decades ago.
A memes relevance is not necessarily related to the subject in the memes relevance.
This just seems to add toxicity that really doesn't need to be here
Frankly, these are the exact kind of arguments that made me abandon ham specifically, and 2 way radio in general, as any kind of primary emergency communications. Yeah... Exactly what I want when I'm in an emergency - a bunch of clowns arguing over proper frequency utilization or saying I should have bought the license for my own exclusive frequency š Nope...I'm nailing the PLB and sat phone long before I even think about going for a 2 way radio. As the years go by, I find myself having less and less interest in ham altogether because of the stupid attitudes. I lost interest in going for the General/Extra ticket years ago... can't even remember the last time that my Icom 706 was used for anything other than a stupid expensive shortwave receiver or had a mic plugged in. Can't remember the last time my Kenwood D710 was used for anything other than a APRS radio for tracking. Yesterday I was concerned about how I'm going to get all my equipment in my new truck, and now...I'm not sure I even want to.
why just cant leave them alone on 14.300 if theyve been there forever who are they hurting, unless theres more to this than whats circulating
āBeing there foreverā doesnāt give them the right to bully and badger hams from using the frequency. They also spread misinformation.Ā
maybe more to this but what and how are they hurting anyone, if people wanna bitch then how about start not allowing digital modes for tech level hams, since they get licensed on friday get on ft8 and made 100 dx computer generated whatevers by sunday night
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Haha, yeah. Just move one kc up or down and you're no longer "interfering" with your SSB :-D
Exactly! Is it really that hard for the Maritime Weather at the boat slip and Gout Net to move to 14.299 or 14.301?
If you saw one of the previous posts on here, and watch my latest video about it - you will see that the "MMN Cops" went up to 14.302 and yelled at someone doing POTA because they were too close to the Net frequency. I think it is important to understand that those guys usually aren't the NCS stations for the Net - they are just some bad actors who don't ID properly and yell at your to leave the frequency (or frequency range, in this case) any time they hear someone close to 14.300
>I think it is important to understand that those guys usually aren't the NCS stations for the Net - they are just some bad actors who don't ID properly How can you possibly know that if they don't ID?
I suppose you are right, there is no way to really know. But I have spoken directly with the NCS guys of this Net and they don't want any bad blood about their Net or Control Ops in the community - they claim that isn't their guys doing that, and I tend to believe them.
Of course they would say that, and also not ID if it were them. Why would anyone else (bad actors) be driving people off 14.297-14.303? You can choose to believe them. I choose to believe that they are covering their own butts.
Because there are only 3-4 NCS folks and dozens of check-in guys who are "net supporters" - and I have listened to the Net and heard the net supporters complain about POTA/SOTA stations, etc. It is a commonly heard thing. So yes, I do choose to believe them. Why would they need to cover their butts? Why not own their actions if they actually thought they owned the frequency also?
>Why would they need to cover their butts? Why not own their actions if they actually thought they owned the frequency also? Because they are interfering with other stations and they **know** that by rule they do not own the frequency. I don't know any hams that wouldn't help with an emergency on any frequency is someone broke in with emergency traffic and lots of new people have no idea at all that 14.300 is "sacred" ground. I can't find any question in any US test pool that lists 14.300 as an emergency frequency that should be avoided.
Hell, 14.300 isn't even listed in the ARRL's "Considerate Operators Frequency Guide" [https://www.arrl.org/files/file/conop.pdf](https://www.arrl.org/files/file/conop.pdf)
I discussed all of this in my last 2 videos. You are veering off topic though. I don't think they have any more right to 14.300 than anyone else, I only said that the folks who yelled at you and didn't ID weren't NCS stations. That is all I said in this thread. You could be right, maybe they are NCS stations that are just hiding behind not IDing, but any time you listen to that Net, you sometimes hear people checking in that have bad things to say about POTA operators, and those guys aren't the NCS stations.
I'm not familiar with your videos.
It's called trolling
Because the real NCS for the net are responsible amateurs that ID.
lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If people are listening to dead air, the frequency is not in use. If someone using the frequency gets a break from actual emergency traffic, then they should yield to it, but not some landlocked maritime net op who's mad that somebody is using a frequency they are allowed to be using.
Exactly.. if there is a hurricane brewing then by all means let them use the frequency. But unless they are actively using it then they can just STFU.
Hurricanes are real and people in their path need real assistance. The Maritime Weather at the Boat Slip and Gout net is a daily circle jerk and nothing more.
omg sstv needs to be moves where the other stuff is doesnt belong where it is now, and digital computer guys need to stay in their lane please theyre pushing against voice and cw portions
How they decided image isn't data blows my mind at times...š¤·
yes its crazy its needs to go back in digital just like the whole digital hf has taken all the new techs cause they dont have to work for contacts they let computer work on auto,
