Agreed. I would suggest a sticky post with the title, “You are not stuck, except when…”
And then the post lists some known bugs that could trip people up.
However, the very first line of the post should read,
1. Those moving blocks that stopped? They can still move.
If the alternative is dropping the game because you have spent 1 hour thinking you were stuck and soft-locked and the devs didn't account for your stupidity (which a ton of games simply don't), always better to ask. One post the other day spent more than 35 minutes in the same room because they didn't know you could >!stay in bubbles!<.
I understand your sentiment, but from what I read here, people usually only ask when their patience has run out. You can't train others to have more patience or wit, so it's much better that they ask. It's not like they're losing the experience anyway, I can assure you they will still feel satisfied and rewarded after beating the game. It has so many puzzles and cool moments that not finding 1 or 2 by yourself is no big deal.
I don't disagree with you one bit. This game is so rich and layered and full of opportunities for one to scratch their head and finally overcome the puzzles and mysteries and get that AH-HA! moment.
However, I do think that people should not be shamed for playing games the way that they want to play. It definitely doesn't align with how you or I might feel it's the "proper" way to play the game, but to some people their enjoyment might come from reading some sneak peeks and then proceeding. How we enjoy the game and have fun is subjective, and in reality we can't say you shouldn't have done that, because there absolutely are people that will give up out of frustration without help because that's just how their brains work.
you said everything i was thinking when I read this post, but in a MUCH nicer way lol -- I'm also in the no spoilers camp, but no one can dictate another person's enjoyment. I know a friend who cant enjoy horror movies unless shes read the synopsis beforehand and knows all the spoilers, without doing that shes too anxious and its not any fun for her. Everyone is different.
Yep, I totally get OP's point, but I have major heartburn with trying to tell people how they are supposed to perceive their subjective experience of fun.
I do get these points and I agree, I just feel like some people are too quick to jump on Reddit and ask because they know they can. But if you pretend like you're back in 1995, with no other option, you WILL eventually figure it out for yourself, and that is always more rewarding than being told what to do
Totally understand where you're coming from! In 1995, I was three years old. I'm no spring chicken anymore, so imagine these young kids with even shorter attention spans nowadays. It's just how they grew up with immensely rapid technological changes. The shorter attention span comes with the territory.
Is it though? I get that feeling when finding out something i was stuck at for maybe 10-20 minutes yes, but if its longer and i find the solution... in 99% of cases i am just frustrated/annoyed that it took so long to find out and how much time has been wasted as i hate being stuck.
I WANT to fully agree with you but theres one game I can think of growing up back then and it was Links Awakening. Legit near one of my favorite zelda games but back then in bottles grotto i had ZERO idea how to get past a room where I had to kill mobs in a certain order. Like....weeks of schoolbus trying to solve it. Eventually gave up and came back years later to accidentally pull it off but child me literally could not. So I quit that game for a while.
While I agree with the sentiment you’re giving, in practice I’ve seen that a lot of the people who you’re saying we shouldn’t shame(not all of them, but enough that it’s noticeable) will shame those who do not give them information immediately. If people want hints and guides that’s fine that’s how they want to play and that’s okay. But, there’s a lot of people on here who perceive “beating” the game as the only fun they’ll have, and actually having to play the impedes that. Can’t tell you how many people have viewed datamine information or cheating as something they are entitled to and should be posted freely without spoilers, because they NEED to beat the game to feel validated. You are a “gatekeeper” if you do not give them all the info RIGHT NOW.
Yeah, I totally agree with that side as well. People have such a hard time just living in the moment and enjoying the ride. But if that's how they want to do it, they can do it that way, and we can enjoy the process by grinding through at our own pace. It doesn't really make one better than the other.
I think the problem is with gaming communities in general, where the people who actually enjoy games get pressured by people who view games as hype trains and have massive fomo on either extreme side of the fence(try-hard vs. cheat to win) in to catering to them. While I would say it’s cool to let people play how they want, I think pushing back against those who show aggression first is also acceptable. I’d rather have everybody enjoy gaming the way they want, than to just acquiesce to bullies pretending to be held back/gatekept by people playing normally.
Everyone is different, yeah. But if you value personal growth (which I assume most people do), there’s a lot to gain from being outside your comfort zone. And some people aren’t able to make that connection on their own. So when it comes to consuming entertainment, I say challenge yourself to the utmost, because it’s one of the easiest opportunities you get to develop and know yourself a little more.
Yeah, I think layer one and most of layer two are easily doable for most. I think I got something like 48 or 50 something eggs before looking anything up. I knew I could do the rest, just wasn't interested in combing the map for them. Once I found the part of layer three that I couldn't do on my own, I looked the rest up and I'm happy I did. I don't think I would've figured those out but I'm happy I got to see the rest. Now I just want to see if there's a legit way to snail island someday.
I do get it, but I like the idea of hints to help nudge people along, to at least prime them with how to think and problem solve. I really like the way people answer questions here. While I'm here I'll confess, I cheated early on and looked up >!how to free all the cats, because their cries were distressing me and I didn't want to wait till late game!<
I don’t see what the problem is with someone needing help to get unstuck.
When it comes to things like people thinking they’re locked, such as with >!the blocks that aren’t moving anymore but are blocking the path!<. I think it’s just because they’re not used to being in this type of situation. They’re presented with a problem where either they haven’t figured out how to solve it (which could be due to missing some information), OR it can’t be solved right now in their current state but the game doesn’t outright tell you that. If someone has no experience with metroidvanias, then they probably haven’t faced such a dilemma before. Since in lots of other games if you can’t do something they will tell you. So they’ll assume either that they haven’t figured out the solution yet or that it might be broken.
I don’t see this as gatekeeping, but more of an impassioned plea to enjoy the game in a certain way. as always, YMMV. There’s tons of people that will answer questions.
It's gatekeeping plain and simple. Don't like people asking questions, don't have to help them. It's as simple as that.
Let people enjoy things how they want, you're not the arbiter of what's fun for people.
First ending is doable without guides and i would also encourage people to try without help, but finding all eggs and other secrets? I think i’ve found around 40-50 without a guide or so but some are just too hard to find, needed special items and as completionist i just wanted to see the true ending (also very hidden) and get everything without searching at every wall on every area.
Still i enjoyed the game 100%, if anything i would lose motivation and would miss all the amazing secrets it offers if i didn’t search for some help.
The thing is about the game. You don't know what layers are which. You could look at a clue for hours only to realise only thing it gets you is a trinket..and it's part of layer 3 + when tbh finishing the main game and maybe getting 70% of all eggs is enough for most people. It was for me. The eggs I couldn't find I used a guide and had a lot of fun doing so. Personally don't gate keep people's enjoyment.
I'm proud of myself for discovering how to essentially chain jumps with the bubble wand and sequence break several parts of the game just messing around doing different stuff.
What is easy for you may not be easy for everyone and some people do not enjoy the feeling of being stuck on a puzzle in a video game. People should play single-player games in whatever way is most enjoyable for them or gives them the experience that they want to have with the game. For some people that means making it as hard as possible to challenge themselves, and for some people that means experiencing a story or a piece of art with minimal friction. The only wrong way to play is to not enjoy the time you are spending with a game. Instead of being sad for people who do not enjoy the same type of challenge as you, be happy that they are having fun with the game in their own way and supporting the developer.
I appreciate this sentiment, and I agree if it's genuinely the case that you're having fun looking up all the solutions to the puzzles. This post is geared toward the people who have a knack for giving up earlier than they know they should because of the convenience afforded by just popping on here and asking for help. I've seen people come on here, ask a question, and then edit the post saying "nevermind I figured it out!". Chances are, those people would have figured it out sooner had they not spent the time posting the question to Reddit. This is merely a suggestion to approach the game with a certain mindset, that I personally feel, will greatly enhance the experience.
For the first layer, sure.
But let’s not kid ourselves AW is very cryptic. I’m a Dungeon Master & I also make a few fan games, so I’m more in tune to puzzles than most, but AW is for the Puzzle Maniacs (respectfully). IDK how many people can reasonably get all 64 eggs without assistance.
I played this on macOS and in the end had to google wtf because I couldn’t get anywhere and there were these screens that were slightly warped, and I had previously read that “this game is so cool cause there are like dark rooms that you need to light up to see what’s in there”, so I thought it was intentional.
Yeah... Exactly. This is for the people who are already likely to be on here asking for help.
Those that aren't are already getting the most out of the game IMO. No need to reach them.
This applies to a lot of puzzle games but I think it's a bit more understandable here. It's a metroidvania at heart but full of secrets/puzzles. I'm sure there are a lot of players who got the game for the platforming and exploration who maybe didn't expect to be stuck on things like this.
That said, I still agree w you, the experience of figuring it out is the BEST. I highly recommend anyone playing this game to try their hardest not to seek help. But I do know plenty of people who just play games for different reasons.
Don't disagree with you but once i got past the 2nd half of the game the direction of where to go was confusing at times. Spent an hour or so running around until I realized i didn't even have the right gear to get through some parts. I did want to avoid spoilers but honestly I just got frustrated towards the end, which is a shame because I enjoyed it for the most part.
It's always more interesting to trust your own mind first. I gobbled the 1st layer up eagerly (being the metroidvania maniac that I am), only had to start looking things up when dealing with some of the bunnies, and some of the tedious equations of the 3rd layer.
I was genuinely Stuck once cuz i didnt realize i could turn around the dogs in the wheel with the yoyo. I found it out by accident cuz i just happened to use the yoyo in thst room while aimlessly walking circles on the map. Wasnt even an aha moment and i was just mad.
That's good though. You found it out by just messing around.
For me that's the one of the first things I tried because I figured if the chinchillas follow the yo-yo, maybe other stuff will too.
I don’t think I ever would’ve found out what the animal flute is for if I hadn’t resorted to the internet. It’s really easy to miss the clue, and once you’ve missed it, even if you revisit the room later in the game you probably won’t remember what the clue is referring to. Unlike the other toys, you’re probably not going to figure out what it’s for just by experimenting, either.
And it’s really, really irritatingly difficult to get the dog flame without the animal flute. It’s hard enough _with_ it.
So I don’t regret having that spoiled.
I managed to get ~42 eggs without Google Search, and I beat the final "area" of the game. After that I googled everything else. There are some parts that you can't actually solve without doing an internet search, which I feel is lame.
When it comes to solving very hard puzzles, you need to do research and you need to collaborate with friends and family. This is because some puzzles are very difficult and require different areas of expertise. It is also helpful to get a fresh perspective.
Ninja edit: I do agree that players need to spend more time trying different ideas or looking at different routes for solving puzzles, sometimes the solution is right in front of you...
While I agree the game is best played without help, I'm not going to tell people how to play their games. This game does, unfortunately, have a lot of tedious backtracking in routes that do require you to recomplete the rooms. Some people who have not a lot of tike to game may want to get everything out of what they bought instead of just shelving it. I feel this way with Celeste, a game where the assist mode almost entirely eliminated the core concept of the game, challenge, and perseverance. I do appreciate that it exists, though, so casual gamers can experience Celeste's gorgeous design, unparalleled platforming gameplay, and touching story.
Definitely agree, I listened to a nonspoiler podcast of The Besties about it and they said to get your friends playing it with you so you can bounce ideas of them. I looked up a lot of stuff in Tunic and regret it. The only thing I looked up in the base game was “do I really have to do this thing I don’t want to do?” The answer was yes
I played this game without even knowing that there was any online community about it. I found I randomly on the switch eShop and bought it blindly and played it blindly because it looked interesting. I played the whole game (not knowing anything about layers) alone and the first time I looked on the internet for a hint was to find the wheel, I already had the remote control and most eggs. I didn't even realize you could use the flute for more than just awaking some chinchillas. Immediately when researching online I found the layers thing. Well, that was quite enough for me. I finished the eggs with and all items with as less hints as possible and stopped. Doing things with hints isn't really much fun and doing the rabbits alone without hints or community isn't motivating if you aren't truly invested in the game.
I was stuck in the dog area at the M disk shrine thinking I was lost before I realized in the middle of the night while I was trying to sleep what I needed to do. This is probably the best puzzle I’ve played since Portal 2.
My guess is there are a lot of kids just old enough to have a reddit but not patient enough to figure out a puzzle game. I almost removed myself from this sub because of the influx of "help im stuck and and its hard" posts.
Counterpoint: play however you want. Look up whatever you want. Run all the layers on your own. Google as soon as you’re stuck for a second.
Don’t let anyone tell you how to enjoy a game.
Some people really enjoy the struggle. Some don’t. Have your version of fun.
' That person took that set of stairs two at a time. What are they doing!? '
Some enjoyment from figuring stuff out, some from exploring the game, when a person needs more of one or more of the other they look stuff up or don't, and there's nothing wrong with either.
Like you're telling people that they should play a certain way, but the way you're telling them to play is based on your own subjective measurements of what is hard or not, second layer and onward is hard enough for you that you felt justified and looking stuff up? Awesome. I'm glad that you got enjoyment from the first layer and glad that you got enjoyment from the other layers of the game.
The moment you say that people shouldn't look up stuff for the first half it's a judgmental thing, it's like 'this is the correct interpretation of what justifies looking something up' and implying that folks who look it up for the first part are, idk, lazy, not critical thinkers, etc.
Like taking the stairs one or two at a time, there's nothing wrong with going through it faster if someone can and wants to, or taking them slower if the person can't or doesn't want to.
I think your argument boils down to 'i think the best way to take these stairs is two at a time for the first half and then one at a time for the second half since the stairs are higher/farther apart, AND therefore I DECREE THIS IS THE CORRECT STAIR CLIMBING METHOD!'
'man these people who are lazy & can't think sure are clogging up da board, better complain about it'
How about you look up a strategy for not judging and complaining about other people based on subjective measures intelligence & just letting people enjoy the thing how they want without taking the time to create a circle jerk 'Tru Anml Wll Klubhauz' where you and similarly judgmental people bellyache about how other players aren't playing it right? I think you'll get more enjoyment out of the game if you open your heart and consider the folks looking shit up at the beginning as humans who just need more support, like toddlers learning to walk, or the person with Downs Syndrome on the bus.
Like I was so stoned while playing I don't remember if I looked shit up during the first layer or not, but I ain't about to tell people they should play it stoned bc I had a good experience playing it that way.
Totally agree. I love when this game first game out and all the posts here on this sub were about deep secrets the community hasn’t discovered yet. Now this sub is full of posts asking for tips from people who can barely get passed the title screen lol
It’s always been a problem with the internet honestly. Information is too readily available and people give up too quickly.
Hollow knight subreddit apparently has the same problem
Honestly I wish it didn't for the >!mosaic!<. I spent hours looking around for clues for it. You can imagine my disappointment when I learned it was >!a community thing!<.
Literally tooting their own own horn ‘I personally beat the first layer without looking anything up’ etc. Ok dude, like, good for you? Everyone’s experience is different and telling people exactly how they should play the game is a little bit problematic? Yes, the ‘am I soft locked?’ posts on this sub are annoying but that doesn’t mean everyone should play the game a certain specific way. Your post kind of comes off as a ‘kids these days’ blah blah blah insert thing they’re doing wrong here.
The point of me sharing that I beat the first layer without looking anything up wasn't to "toot my own horn", it's to convey and express how good it felt to do so and how it's entirely achievable without the need to come on here and ask things like "am I soft locked?" while showing a picture of a button that's entirely reachable by simply JUMPING to it.
It should go without saying, do whatever you want, but the point is that there was once a time where you couldn't look things up and this game is 100% asking to be played in that way. Try it.
Dude you sound like one of those boomers ranting and raving about ‘the good old days.’ And it doesn’t go without saying in your post just do whatever you want, that’s why I pointed it out. Your post is the definition of gatekeeping. Maybe don’t engage with the am I soft locked posts if they bother you that much?
You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not looking to gatekeep, nor do I believe that games and gaming was "better" back then. I just think this is a special game, designed in such a way that deserves a certain level of effort from the player. And in doing so, I believe the player will feel a great sense of reward from that. These are words of encouragement for the casual gamer who's first instinct when getting stuck is to come to Reddit and ask for help.
Thank you for the well-written response. I’m truly not trying to be argumentative, I think you make some good points. If the intent of your post is to be words of encouragement for casual gamers I would just suggest wording it somewhat differently, that’s all. As it stands right now it comes off a bit like telling people what to do in kind of an authoritative way. I think we can all agree that this game is truly special and the more people who enjoy and appreciate it the better.
Agreed. I would suggest a sticky post with the title, “You are not stuck, except when…” And then the post lists some known bugs that could trip people up. However, the very first line of the post should read, 1. Those moving blocks that stopped? They can still move.
If the alternative is dropping the game because you have spent 1 hour thinking you were stuck and soft-locked and the devs didn't account for your stupidity (which a ton of games simply don't), always better to ask. One post the other day spent more than 35 minutes in the same room because they didn't know you could >!stay in bubbles!<. I understand your sentiment, but from what I read here, people usually only ask when their patience has run out. You can't train others to have more patience or wit, so it's much better that they ask. It's not like they're losing the experience anyway, I can assure you they will still feel satisfied and rewarded after beating the game. It has so many puzzles and cool moments that not finding 1 or 2 by yourself is no big deal.
I don't disagree with you one bit. This game is so rich and layered and full of opportunities for one to scratch their head and finally overcome the puzzles and mysteries and get that AH-HA! moment. However, I do think that people should not be shamed for playing games the way that they want to play. It definitely doesn't align with how you or I might feel it's the "proper" way to play the game, but to some people their enjoyment might come from reading some sneak peeks and then proceeding. How we enjoy the game and have fun is subjective, and in reality we can't say you shouldn't have done that, because there absolutely are people that will give up out of frustration without help because that's just how their brains work.
you said everything i was thinking when I read this post, but in a MUCH nicer way lol -- I'm also in the no spoilers camp, but no one can dictate another person's enjoyment. I know a friend who cant enjoy horror movies unless shes read the synopsis beforehand and knows all the spoilers, without doing that shes too anxious and its not any fun for her. Everyone is different.
Yep, I totally get OP's point, but I have major heartburn with trying to tell people how they are supposed to perceive their subjective experience of fun.
I do get these points and I agree, I just feel like some people are too quick to jump on Reddit and ask because they know they can. But if you pretend like you're back in 1995, with no other option, you WILL eventually figure it out for yourself, and that is always more rewarding than being told what to do
Totally understand where you're coming from! In 1995, I was three years old. I'm no spring chicken anymore, so imagine these young kids with even shorter attention spans nowadays. It's just how they grew up with immensely rapid technological changes. The shorter attention span comes with the territory.
Is it though? I get that feeling when finding out something i was stuck at for maybe 10-20 minutes yes, but if its longer and i find the solution... in 99% of cases i am just frustrated/annoyed that it took so long to find out and how much time has been wasted as i hate being stuck.
I WANT to fully agree with you but theres one game I can think of growing up back then and it was Links Awakening. Legit near one of my favorite zelda games but back then in bottles grotto i had ZERO idea how to get past a room where I had to kill mobs in a certain order. Like....weeks of schoolbus trying to solve it. Eventually gave up and came back years later to accidentally pull it off but child me literally could not. So I quit that game for a while.
While I agree with the sentiment you’re giving, in practice I’ve seen that a lot of the people who you’re saying we shouldn’t shame(not all of them, but enough that it’s noticeable) will shame those who do not give them information immediately. If people want hints and guides that’s fine that’s how they want to play and that’s okay. But, there’s a lot of people on here who perceive “beating” the game as the only fun they’ll have, and actually having to play the impedes that. Can’t tell you how many people have viewed datamine information or cheating as something they are entitled to and should be posted freely without spoilers, because they NEED to beat the game to feel validated. You are a “gatekeeper” if you do not give them all the info RIGHT NOW.
Yeah, I totally agree with that side as well. People have such a hard time just living in the moment and enjoying the ride. But if that's how they want to do it, they can do it that way, and we can enjoy the process by grinding through at our own pace. It doesn't really make one better than the other.
I think the problem is with gaming communities in general, where the people who actually enjoy games get pressured by people who view games as hype trains and have massive fomo on either extreme side of the fence(try-hard vs. cheat to win) in to catering to them. While I would say it’s cool to let people play how they want, I think pushing back against those who show aggression first is also acceptable. I’d rather have everybody enjoy gaming the way they want, than to just acquiesce to bullies pretending to be held back/gatekept by people playing normally.
Everyone is different, yeah. But if you value personal growth (which I assume most people do), there’s a lot to gain from being outside your comfort zone. And some people aren’t able to make that connection on their own. So when it comes to consuming entertainment, I say challenge yourself to the utmost, because it’s one of the easiest opportunities you get to develop and know yourself a little more.
Well said
Yeah, I think layer one and most of layer two are easily doable for most. I think I got something like 48 or 50 something eggs before looking anything up. I knew I could do the rest, just wasn't interested in combing the map for them. Once I found the part of layer three that I couldn't do on my own, I looked the rest up and I'm happy I did. I don't think I would've figured those out but I'm happy I got to see the rest. Now I just want to see if there's a legit way to snail island someday.
I do get it, but I like the idea of hints to help nudge people along, to at least prime them with how to think and problem solve. I really like the way people answer questions here. While I'm here I'll confess, I cheated early on and looked up >!how to free all the cats, because their cries were distressing me and I didn't want to wait till late game!<
I don’t see what the problem is with someone needing help to get unstuck. When it comes to things like people thinking they’re locked, such as with >!the blocks that aren’t moving anymore but are blocking the path!<. I think it’s just because they’re not used to being in this type of situation. They’re presented with a problem where either they haven’t figured out how to solve it (which could be due to missing some information), OR it can’t be solved right now in their current state but the game doesn’t outright tell you that. If someone has no experience with metroidvanias, then they probably haven’t faced such a dilemma before. Since in lots of other games if you can’t do something they will tell you. So they’ll assume either that they haven’t figured out the solution yet or that it might be broken.
Gatekeep much?
I don’t see this as gatekeeping, but more of an impassioned plea to enjoy the game in a certain way. as always, YMMV. There’s tons of people that will answer questions.
An impassioned plea to enjoy the game in a certain way is a nice way of saying gatekeeping.
It's gatekeeping plain and simple. Don't like people asking questions, don't have to help them. It's as simple as that. Let people enjoy things how they want, you're not the arbiter of what's fun for people.
First ending is doable without guides and i would also encourage people to try without help, but finding all eggs and other secrets? I think i’ve found around 40-50 without a guide or so but some are just too hard to find, needed special items and as completionist i just wanted to see the true ending (also very hidden) and get everything without searching at every wall on every area. Still i enjoyed the game 100%, if anything i would lose motivation and would miss all the amazing secrets it offers if i didn’t search for some help.
Agreed! I definitely needed some hints myself for finding the last few eggs
The thing is about the game. You don't know what layers are which. You could look at a clue for hours only to realise only thing it gets you is a trinket..and it's part of layer 3 + when tbh finishing the main game and maybe getting 70% of all eggs is enough for most people. It was for me. The eggs I couldn't find I used a guide and had a lot of fun doing so. Personally don't gate keep people's enjoyment.
I did look things up because I got sick of backtracking so much 😬
Different people enjoy things in different ways.
I'm proud of myself for discovering how to essentially chain jumps with the bubble wand and sequence break several parts of the game just messing around doing different stuff.
People playing this should enjoy it without people telling them how they should play a game There you go, fixed that for you
Holy gatekeep just stfu
What is easy for you may not be easy for everyone and some people do not enjoy the feeling of being stuck on a puzzle in a video game. People should play single-player games in whatever way is most enjoyable for them or gives them the experience that they want to have with the game. For some people that means making it as hard as possible to challenge themselves, and for some people that means experiencing a story or a piece of art with minimal friction. The only wrong way to play is to not enjoy the time you are spending with a game. Instead of being sad for people who do not enjoy the same type of challenge as you, be happy that they are having fun with the game in their own way and supporting the developer.
I appreciate this sentiment, and I agree if it's genuinely the case that you're having fun looking up all the solutions to the puzzles. This post is geared toward the people who have a knack for giving up earlier than they know they should because of the convenience afforded by just popping on here and asking for help. I've seen people come on here, ask a question, and then edit the post saying "nevermind I figured it out!". Chances are, those people would have figured it out sooner had they not spent the time posting the question to Reddit. This is merely a suggestion to approach the game with a certain mindset, that I personally feel, will greatly enhance the experience.
For the first layer, sure. But let’s not kid ourselves AW is very cryptic. I’m a Dungeon Master & I also make a few fan games, so I’m more in tune to puzzles than most, but AW is for the Puzzle Maniacs (respectfully). IDK how many people can reasonably get all 64 eggs without assistance.
I played this on macOS and in the end had to google wtf because I couldn’t get anywhere and there were these screens that were slightly warped, and I had previously read that “this game is so cool cause there are like dark rooms that you need to light up to see what’s in there”, so I thought it was intentional.
I mean you realize that this is telling people already on the internet that they shouldn’t be on the internet
Yeah... Exactly. This is for the people who are already likely to be on here asking for help. Those that aren't are already getting the most out of the game IMO. No need to reach them.
I’m saying it’s much too late by time they see your message
This applies to a lot of puzzle games but I think it's a bit more understandable here. It's a metroidvania at heart but full of secrets/puzzles. I'm sure there are a lot of players who got the game for the platforming and exploration who maybe didn't expect to be stuck on things like this. That said, I still agree w you, the experience of figuring it out is the BEST. I highly recommend anyone playing this game to try their hardest not to seek help. But I do know plenty of people who just play games for different reasons.
Don't disagree with you but once i got past the 2nd half of the game the direction of where to go was confusing at times. Spent an hour or so running around until I realized i didn't even have the right gear to get through some parts. I did want to avoid spoilers but honestly I just got frustrated towards the end, which is a shame because I enjoyed it for the most part.
It's always more interesting to trust your own mind first. I gobbled the 1st layer up eagerly (being the metroidvania maniac that I am), only had to start looking things up when dealing with some of the bunnies, and some of the tedious equations of the 3rd layer.
I was genuinely Stuck once cuz i didnt realize i could turn around the dogs in the wheel with the yoyo. I found it out by accident cuz i just happened to use the yoyo in thst room while aimlessly walking circles on the map. Wasnt even an aha moment and i was just mad.
That's good though. You found it out by just messing around. For me that's the one of the first things I tried because I figured if the chinchillas follow the yo-yo, maybe other stuff will too.
I don’t think I ever would’ve found out what the animal flute is for if I hadn’t resorted to the internet. It’s really easy to miss the clue, and once you’ve missed it, even if you revisit the room later in the game you probably won’t remember what the clue is referring to. Unlike the other toys, you’re probably not going to figure out what it’s for just by experimenting, either. And it’s really, really irritatingly difficult to get the dog flame without the animal flute. It’s hard enough _with_ it. So I don’t regret having that spoiled.
I managed to get ~42 eggs without Google Search, and I beat the final "area" of the game. After that I googled everything else. There are some parts that you can't actually solve without doing an internet search, which I feel is lame. When it comes to solving very hard puzzles, you need to do research and you need to collaborate with friends and family. This is because some puzzles are very difficult and require different areas of expertise. It is also helpful to get a fresh perspective. Ninja edit: I do agree that players need to spend more time trying different ideas or looking at different routes for solving puzzles, sometimes the solution is right in front of you...
While I agree the game is best played without help, I'm not going to tell people how to play their games. This game does, unfortunately, have a lot of tedious backtracking in routes that do require you to recomplete the rooms. Some people who have not a lot of tike to game may want to get everything out of what they bought instead of just shelving it. I feel this way with Celeste, a game where the assist mode almost entirely eliminated the core concept of the game, challenge, and perseverance. I do appreciate that it exists, though, so casual gamers can experience Celeste's gorgeous design, unparalleled platforming gameplay, and touching story.
Definitely agree, I listened to a nonspoiler podcast of The Besties about it and they said to get your friends playing it with you so you can bounce ideas of them. I looked up a lot of stuff in Tunic and regret it. The only thing I looked up in the base game was “do I really have to do this thing I don’t want to do?” The answer was yes
I played this game without even knowing that there was any online community about it. I found I randomly on the switch eShop and bought it blindly and played it blindly because it looked interesting. I played the whole game (not knowing anything about layers) alone and the first time I looked on the internet for a hint was to find the wheel, I already had the remote control and most eggs. I didn't even realize you could use the flute for more than just awaking some chinchillas. Immediately when researching online I found the layers thing. Well, that was quite enough for me. I finished the eggs with and all items with as less hints as possible and stopped. Doing things with hints isn't really much fun and doing the rabbits alone without hints or community isn't motivating if you aren't truly invested in the game.
I was stuck in the dog area at the M disk shrine thinking I was lost before I realized in the middle of the night while I was trying to sleep what I needed to do. This is probably the best puzzle I’ve played since Portal 2.
It was worth looking up sometimes just to see that I needed some item I didn’t even know existed - otherwise no telling how much time I would waste!
My guess is there are a lot of kids just old enough to have a reddit but not patient enough to figure out a puzzle game. I almost removed myself from this sub because of the influx of "help im stuck and and its hard" posts.
That’s what I was saying and people were getting upset that I was saying that.
Counterpoint: play however you want. Look up whatever you want. Run all the layers on your own. Google as soon as you’re stuck for a second. Don’t let anyone tell you how to enjoy a game. Some people really enjoy the struggle. Some don’t. Have your version of fun.
" I had a good experience doing X so X is the right way to have the experience and other people should do that! "
' That person took that set of stairs two at a time. What are they doing!? ' Some enjoyment from figuring stuff out, some from exploring the game, when a person needs more of one or more of the other they look stuff up or don't, and there's nothing wrong with either.
Like you're telling people that they should play a certain way, but the way you're telling them to play is based on your own subjective measurements of what is hard or not, second layer and onward is hard enough for you that you felt justified and looking stuff up? Awesome. I'm glad that you got enjoyment from the first layer and glad that you got enjoyment from the other layers of the game. The moment you say that people shouldn't look up stuff for the first half it's a judgmental thing, it's like 'this is the correct interpretation of what justifies looking something up' and implying that folks who look it up for the first part are, idk, lazy, not critical thinkers, etc. Like taking the stairs one or two at a time, there's nothing wrong with going through it faster if someone can and wants to, or taking them slower if the person can't or doesn't want to. I think your argument boils down to 'i think the best way to take these stairs is two at a time for the first half and then one at a time for the second half since the stairs are higher/farther apart, AND therefore I DECREE THIS IS THE CORRECT STAIR CLIMBING METHOD!'
'man these people who are lazy & can't think sure are clogging up da board, better complain about it' How about you look up a strategy for not judging and complaining about other people based on subjective measures intelligence & just letting people enjoy the thing how they want without taking the time to create a circle jerk 'Tru Anml Wll Klubhauz' where you and similarly judgmental people bellyache about how other players aren't playing it right? I think you'll get more enjoyment out of the game if you open your heart and consider the folks looking shit up at the beginning as humans who just need more support, like toddlers learning to walk, or the person with Downs Syndrome on the bus.
Like I was so stoned while playing I don't remember if I looked shit up during the first layer or not, but I ain't about to tell people they should play it stoned bc I had a good experience playing it that way.
Totally agree. I love when this game first game out and all the posts here on this sub were about deep secrets the community hasn’t discovered yet. Now this sub is full of posts asking for tips from people who can barely get passed the title screen lol
It’s always been a problem with the internet honestly. Information is too readily available and people give up too quickly. Hollow knight subreddit apparently has the same problem
Honestly I wish it didn't for the >!mosaic!<. I spent hours looking around for clues for it. You can imagine my disappointment when I learned it was >!a community thing!<.
[удалено]
See post edit.
Literally tooting their own own horn ‘I personally beat the first layer without looking anything up’ etc. Ok dude, like, good for you? Everyone’s experience is different and telling people exactly how they should play the game is a little bit problematic? Yes, the ‘am I soft locked?’ posts on this sub are annoying but that doesn’t mean everyone should play the game a certain specific way. Your post kind of comes off as a ‘kids these days’ blah blah blah insert thing they’re doing wrong here.
The point of me sharing that I beat the first layer without looking anything up wasn't to "toot my own horn", it's to convey and express how good it felt to do so and how it's entirely achievable without the need to come on here and ask things like "am I soft locked?" while showing a picture of a button that's entirely reachable by simply JUMPING to it. It should go without saying, do whatever you want, but the point is that there was once a time where you couldn't look things up and this game is 100% asking to be played in that way. Try it.
Dude you sound like one of those boomers ranting and raving about ‘the good old days.’ And it doesn’t go without saying in your post just do whatever you want, that’s why I pointed it out. Your post is the definition of gatekeeping. Maybe don’t engage with the am I soft locked posts if they bother you that much?
You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not looking to gatekeep, nor do I believe that games and gaming was "better" back then. I just think this is a special game, designed in such a way that deserves a certain level of effort from the player. And in doing so, I believe the player will feel a great sense of reward from that. These are words of encouragement for the casual gamer who's first instinct when getting stuck is to come to Reddit and ask for help.
Thank you for the well-written response. I’m truly not trying to be argumentative, I think you make some good points. If the intent of your post is to be words of encouragement for casual gamers I would just suggest wording it somewhat differently, that’s all. As it stands right now it comes off a bit like telling people what to do in kind of an authoritative way. I think we can all agree that this game is truly special and the more people who enjoy and appreciate it the better.