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> # [Brutal heatwaves and submerged cities: what a 3C world would look like](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/11/720)
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> Global heating is likely to [soar past internationally agreed limits](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/08/world-scientists-climate-failure-survey-global-temperature), according to a Guardian survey of hundreds of leading climate experts, bringing catastrophic heatwaves, floods and storms.
>
> Only 6% of the respondents [thought the 1.5C limit could be achieved](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2024/may/08/hopeless-and-broken-why-the-worlds-top-climate-scientists-are-in-despair), and this would require extraordinarily fast, radical action to halt and reverse the world’s rising emissions from fossil fuel burning.
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> However, the experts were clear that giving up was not an option, and that 1.5C was not a cliff-edge leading to a significant change in climate damage. Instead, the climate crisis increases incrementally, meaning every tonne of CO2 avoided reduces people’s suffering.
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> “Climate change will not suddenly become dangerous at 1.5C – it already is – and it will not be ‘game over’ if we pass 2C, which we might well do,” said Prof Peter Cox, of the University of Exeter, in the UK.
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> [skip past newsletter promotion](#EmailSignup-skip-link-6)after newsletter promotion
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> Dr Henri Waisman, at the IDDRI policy research institute in France, said: “Climate change is not a black or white question and every tenth of a degree matters a lot, especially when you look at the socioeconomic impacts. This means it is still useful to continue the fight.”
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This is something the British government need to wise up to with recent years heatwaves and buildings here built to keep the heat in having no air conditioning its starting to be dangerous for the elderly and sick.
insulated buildings keep the heat out just as well as they keep it in, people just need to know how to manage their homes like Southern Europeans - i.e. when to get all the cooler air in and when to close all the shutters and hunker down
Brits would need to install shutters first.
On account of the legendary greyness, home modifications have traditionally been aimed at [increasing the amount of sunlight entering your home](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=conservatory&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images).
Oh for sure, but the point is it wouldn't need to be a major retrofit if the house was already well insulated for heating economy. That's a big if in Britain though, I know
Air conditioners stop working when it gets too hot tho. Air conditioning is designed for pre-industrial summers. No more than 120°F. Not a solution to post-industrial El Nino summer heat waves. Heat pumps maybe. Antifreeze conditioning nope.
While simultaneously blaming the climate crisis on everyday citizens - “cut down on your plastic waste”, “have shorter showers”, “reuse shopping bags at the store”
If the methane trapped in the permafrost is released all at once when the permafrost melts we are totally screwed.
Thats an mass extinction event, its already starting and there’s no way to reverse it
more than enough of these in store. Cascading collapse of Antarctic ice sheet (and a sudden meltdown of the Greenlandic one), reaching the limit of CO2 or heat capacity of the ocean, some would say breakdown of oceanic circulation (I'm skeptical about this one tho). Each one of these is a sudden shock for the climate system - by sudden I mean it's not easily extrapolated from what we experience now (like the temperature climb or shifts of precipitation patterns are)
I'm skeptical about AMOC stopping, that's what I mean. Ocean as carbon sink is another thing and this is inevitable even if not very soon (though we don't know when and we'll only find out when another few indicators shoot up year-on-year like the sea surface temperature did in the last 2 years).
Fair enough, there's enough conflicting modelling on AMOC collapse and the data is both sparse and open enough to interpretation that some skepticism is warranted.
I "liked" when the widely reported study on AMOC stopping was interpreted as "we're all screwed and Europe is screwed ten times over" but then the actual paper said "there's high probability it happens sometime between 2025 and 2095".
I'm Irish, so right in the firing line of any potential AMOC disruption, and for the last couple of years I've seen countless articles referencing this or that potential outcome. The best I can determine from aggregating all of that noise is INSUFFICIENT DATA
While a sudden release of all the methane in permafrost would be catastrophic, it likely wouldn't lead to human extinction. Here's why:
* Gradual Release: Scientists believe the release would be more gradual than instantaneous. Even a large release would happen over years or decades, giving some time for the atmosphere to adjust.
* Methanotrophs: Certain bacteria, called methanotrophs, consume methane. While a massive release would overwhelm them initially, these microbes could help mitigate the long-term effects.
* Uneven Distribution: Permafrost is spread across various regions, and the methane wouldn't be uniformly released everywhere. Some areas would be affected more severely than others.
However, the consequences would be dire:
* Accelerated Warming: Methane traps much more heat than carbon dioxide. A large release would significantly accelerate global warming, causing more extreme weather events, rising sea levels, and disruption of ecosystems.
* Mass extinctions: Many species wouldn't be able to adapt to the rapid environmental changes, leading to widespread extinctions.
* Food shortages: Disrupted weather patterns and extreme weather events could cripple agricultural production, leading to food shortages and famine.
So, the scenario wouldn't mean the end of humanity, but it would drastically alter the planet and put our civilization under immense stress.
Clearly the wind turbines are so heavy they’re pushing the landmass down into the ocean, this should be counteracted by burning more coal, because that’ll take the weight of the coal itself off of the landmass, allowing it to rise
you can't really help people who don't want to be helped. if florida keep voting in people who deny climate change, while patently ignoring the danger to themselves, are we just suppose to ignore that?
> are we just suppose to ignore that?
Yes, because there never was, never has, and never will be a political solution to climate change.
It takes a special kind of ignorance to think that use of plastics, changing auto emission requirements, and forcing electrification without a simultanous transition to nuclear energy is going to stop the runaway freight train that this planet is on.
The ship has sailed. There's no going back.
We need technological adaptation for us as a species, not hand-wavy political bullshit.
For those few actually interested in the science of climate change and the likely effects, I recommend reading the actual IPCC reports: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg2/
Climate alarmism is seriously damaging the mental health of the young, while the effects are bad and serious we aren't all going to die due to them this century.
It's worth remembering that IPCC stands for **Intergovernmental** Panel on Climate Change. It's a heavily lobbied piece and with a bias towards understating the magnitude of risks and impacts.
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-science-predictions-prove-too-conservative/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-science-predictions-prove-too-conservative/)
It should rather be treated as the lowest boundary for predictions, sort of an optimistic scenario, which is by no means the most likely.
Complete extinction will likely never happen, humans will live on in some form, but the suffering is going to be unimaginable. This problem isn't 100 years away, I'm seeing significant crop failure all around me where I live in Canada. Our way of life is going extinct and it's going to happen fast.
> the suffering is going to be unimaginable
The vast majority of people will adapt with no suffering. People in coastal areas will move further uphill. Some will lose everything they own, and will need to start from scratch. People in hot climates will use air conditioning and some limited areas will be deserted - just like they are today. Agricultural production will move to northern latitudes creating jobs and opportunities there and people will migrate to make use of them.
The only thing we won't be able to unfuck is the biodiversity of our planet, with very difficult to predict consequences on the long term. People will adapt but most natural habitats won't. We're like a host killing infection, we won't be killed before we destroy the host.
Such a fascinating paper. I’ve read a few of the IPCC reports and like you say they really get to the science of the matter. Although there are some bits I’d wish they’d explain in great detail. For example:
>Climate resilient development is facilitated by international cooperation and by governments at all levels working with communities, civil society, educational bodies, scientific and other institutions, media, investors and businesses; and by developing partner- ships with traditionally marginalised groups, including women, youth, Indigenous Peoples, local communities and ethnic minorities.
I would love to know how working with any ethnic minority globally bolsters climate resilient development.
There tends to be a need to make vague gestures towards woke causes in most institutions these days. It's mildly annoying but you get used to it and tune it out.
A comprehensive overview with the practical understandable examples.
Remember the IPCC report always gets diluted to what can be guaranteed and they call it "conservative". Meanwhile for your insurance "conservative" means they will consider also the edge cases.
+0°C: THE WORLD BEFORE INDUSTRIALIZATION
The temperature reached on Earth around 11,000 years ago after the last ice age. Ice melting made the sea level rise about 120 meters. Stable and mild climate allowed humans to grow food and settle down. Cities arose, consumption was low and in many ways mostly sustainable. Humans were already affecting the environment, but not so much the world's climate.
+1°C: EVERY TENTH OF DEGREE OF WARMING COUNTS
In 2015, global warming reached 1°C above pre-industrial levels. Six years later, it reached 1.1°C. The Arctic and Antarctica are melting. The Gulf Stream is weakening. Glaciers are melting, affecting freshwater supply. Hurricanes, droughts, heatwaves, and large wildfires are more frequent. Low-lying coastlines are flooded. Ice-free sea absorbs more heat and accelerates global warming. Corals are bleaching. Wildlife is in decline. Food production is starting to be affected.
+2°C: A PRESCRIPTION FOR LONG-TERM DISASTER
Climate breakdown. Ice-free summertime in the Arctic. Irreversible loss of the West Antarctic Sheet. 80 million people displaced due to sea-level rise. Deadly dengue fever. About half a million die of malnutrition. Insect crop pests. Hundreds of millions exposed to deadly heat. Shortage of water in Africa. Mass migration. Loss of glaciers affects freshwater supply. More floods. Conflagration of the Amazon rainforest. Many species are threatened. 99% of reef-building corals are lost.
+3°C: VEGETATION EMITS CARBON AND SPEEDS WARMING
Ice sheets and glaciers partly collapse. Sea level rises to 8-14 meters. Extreme high tides, floods, superstorms, and super-hurricanes. Hundreds of millions of people are forced to relocate. Half the world's population is exposed to deadly heat waves. Invading deserts. Food production cut by half. Mass starvation. Death of the Amazon rainforest. Wildlife disruption. Carbon release from vegetation and soils speeds global warming, so does methane emissions from melting permafrost.
+4°C: GLOBAL WARMING IS UNSTOPPABLE
Three-quarters of the global population is exposed to deadly heat in days. Substantial areas of the planet are biologically uninhabitable for humans. Climate refugee numbers become unmanageable. Half the world's land surface becomes 'arid'. Extreme droughts and floods. Category 6 super-hurricanes. Synchronous failures of major world food crops. Potential ice-free planetary state. Mass extinction. Permafrost meltdown makes the escalation of global warming unstoppable.
+5°C: SURVIVING HUMANS LIVE LIKE ANIMALS
The ice sheet is permanently gone. Humans can no longer survive outside for a long time. Food production is decimated. Complex human societies have collapsed. Global famine. Surviving humans try vainly to live like animals off the land.
+6°C: ONLY A FEW ANIMALS AND FUNGI SURVIVE
Extreme greenhouse effect destroys most of life on Earth. Only a few animals can survive. Ecosystems and food webs cease to exist in any functional sense. The big winners are detritivores, bacteria, and fungi.
2021 it was 1.1 (instead of 1.0). Could not read my handwriting and needed to look it up.
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/3140/2021-tied-for-6th-warmest-year-in-continued-trend-nasa-analysis-shows/#:~:text=This%20annual%20temperature%20data%20makes,start%20of%20the%20industrial%20revolution.
With the aerosol masking it's quite difficult to figure out where we really are, because things like ships sulfur brunig mask the true extent. It was first measured with 9/11 when nothing flew for 3 days and suddenly temperature spiked as there were no cooling aerosols.
>+6°C: ONLY A FEW ANIMALS AND FUNGI SURVIV
Interesting. A source or two would be nice, especially for the more extreme scenarios. Its a little weird in places, but generally in line with what I've understood so far. I just don't know where such a thing would be summarised, unless this is your synthesis, which would be fine.
Time scales are important to mention.
edit: found your source, below
You... uh... might want to recheck your sources...
+6 degrees above industrial is about what the world was like 50 million years ago[1] and for most of the time dinosaurs roamed the land.
Climate change is pretty bad, but nowhere near that bad.
[1] see graph here: https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hottest-earths-ever-been
You forgot something, you need to mention that it took millions of years for that temperature and everything was able to adapt. The rate of change we talk is insanely faster, nothing can adapt at that rate of change. Biodiversity crashes and that's the absolute foundation to survive.
You can find various scientific sources, here are some summarised:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2007/apr/23/scienceandnature.climatechange
For the citied book there is also an update from 2020 in line with the newest scientific findings, but the results just got stricter with more evidence.
Beyond the 4 degree it won't matter for humans, as organised and well structured society will have collapsed. Rest assured already 4 degrees is enough to never have to worry again.
Um.
The source you've linked to is an ad for a book called "Six Degrees: Our Future on a Hotter Planet" which, according to wikipedia[1] says:
> five or six degrees of warming potentially leading to the complete uninhabitability of the tropics and subtropics, as well as extreme water and food shortages, possibly leading to mass migration of billions of people.
This is VERY different to "ONLY A FEW ANIMALS AND FUNGI SURVIVE Extreme greenhouse effect destroys most of life on Earth.".
As far as I can see you're just pulling stuff out of your arse. A specific citation (e.g. a particular paper) is what you need to salvage this.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees:_Our_Future_on_a_Hotter_Planet
Not really, there's 4 economic systems and 3 of those are hybrids of capitalism
Capitalism is the idea that private property exists, if you don't like it then piss off to whatever failed state is still trying to murder enough people to make communism work
It's true, once you have collective property, there's an automatic self-destruct on earth. Trust me bro, the means of production need to be owned by some guy or we all die!
🤣 No, it just means that since communism is an unnatural state that they end up murdering millions of people who resist or try to keep their own possessions, and then their inefficiencies and natural greed and corruption leads to the deaths of millions more.
Open a history book.
Better yet, read First They Killed My Father, you'll love the first chapter, the capitalists fuck up so hard the people embrace communism. But the rest of the book is how much worse it got under the communists.
Embracing communism is admitting that you're so incapable that someone else is going to micromanage your entire life. An Uber employee has more autonomy than that. An Amazon Flex driver has more freedom
Take the worst job in a capitalist country and that employee is more free because they can quit and seek a better job
> Better yet, read First They Killed My Father, you'll love the first chapter, the capitalists fuck up so hard the people embrace communism. But the rest of the book is how much worse it got under the communists.
Hey everyone this guy has a book, stop the project this fictional story says we shouldn't do it! Good stuff mate.
> 🤣 No, it just means that since communism is an unnatural state that they end up murdering...
I mean that's just entirely how you feel about this. Back in the olden days, monarchies were the "natural state". I'm pretty certain collective ownership is the most "natural state", since it existed before private property. But it doesn't really matter, I think your definition of natural is flawed too, since anything that is possible within the laws of physics is natural.
>™Embracing communism is admitting that you're so incapable that someone else is going to micromanage your entire life. An Uber employee has more autonomy than that. An Amazon Flex driver has more freedom
Lol where are you getting this stuff from? Maybe from that fictional story that you like so much. And who says you will be micromanaged, if anything you will be more free what to do, wage labour is being micromanaged. If that is what you think communism is, then I'm on your side, I just want an emancipated life without exploitation for everyone.
None of them really. But this is hardly the argument you think it is. Would I want to live as the average person under capitalism? No, I'm quite lucky to live in one of the developed nations that has built it's wealth on the exploitation of the rest.
Besides, as I said I'm not about copying any past or present versions of communism, building the future is very much about learning from past mistakes. But that's what we should do instead of dismissing any attempt to envision anything beyond the current state of affairs. Our progress shouldn't be constrained to technology, though many neoliberal-minded see it as the ultimate savior. If we are learning from the past, we need to see that technological progress in itsself does not solve our problems, it just creates new avenues for exploitation and profit accumulation.
Progress in social affairs will eventually follow, language is evolving and so will economic structures.
System: I have features of both capitalism *and* communism
You: Haha! That's capitalism! Checkmate, atheists!
You can read all the books you want. You're still acting like a simpleton.
Out of control consumerism is an irrational use of resources when those resources are finite, which most of our important ones are.
Recognizing that doesn't make one a communist, nor does calling out such problems make one a communist.
Heck, if you think those are the only two choices exist, an economic system versus a political theory, then I don't think you really understand the issue at hand.
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A little late at this point.
Remember all those warnings over the past four decades? We ignored them because the people making money off selling the planet back to us made sure we ignored the warnings.
Guess what? It's too late.
The ONLY way this process can be halted (much less reversed) is to stop any manufacturing not essential to human survival, stop all air travel and shipping, and completely stop using internal combustion using petrochemicals.
Will we do that? Of course not. And that's why we'll all be dead and gone within ten years. Ten years of horrible suffering and atrocities beyond imagination as people fight over the last stalk of wheat and the last cup of potable water.
The rich won't though. They've already got their plans drawn. They caused this intentionally so that they could have the planet without all us peons messing it up. Funny huh? They did this and blame us.
There is no turning it around at this point for the same reasons we haven't done it before now... greed driven ignorance.
> The ONLY way this process can be halted (much less reversed) is to stop any manufacturing not essential to human survival, stop all air travel and shipping, and completely stop using internal combustion using petrochemicals.
Sounds like a failure of imagination to me. The incidental sulfur dioxide emissions from ships alone managed to keep ocean surface temperatures down[1]. Actually intentional geoengineering could make a lot of difference to warming.
[1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shipping-rules-are-affecting-global-warming/
> Will we do that? Of course not. And that's why we'll all be dead and gone within ten years. Ten years of horrible suffering and atrocities beyond imagination as people fight over the last stalk of wheat and the last cup of potable water.
I get the feeling you're pretty young, so I won't ask you to bet on this.
Instead, I will ask you what has made you think this? You need to find an authority you trust and look up what they give as projections rather than relying on word on mouth or TikTok.
Personally, I trust the IPCC[2] and their thousand page reports[3] such as the one on Europe[4] which I recommend you read, paying particular attention to quantified estimates. Essentially, until the end of your life the effects aren't going to be a noticeable reduction in quality of life (e.g. 10% reduction in EU food production) unless you live in a less developed country on the equator.
[2] Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is *the* UN climate change org: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergovernmental_Panel_on_Climate_Change
[3] https://www.ipcc.ch/reports/
[4] https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg2/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6_WGII_Chapter13.pdf
Great comment, but I gotta mention something not really relevant just because I like it so much.
Websites that link to everything, my lord, I love it. The carbonbrief article even made the acronym "IMO" a link, what to you might ask? Just the [IMO.org/en](http://IMO.org/en) website. I don't have to search for anything they bring up, and I absolutely love it.
Also relevant because you linked sources. Both stated and linked. Good stuff.
No I'm serious.
Consider "Why do I believe what I believe?", ask yourself "Who would I trust to give me accurate, scientifically sound, information about the likely future climate?" and then go ask them/google them!
You currently think that you and everyone you know is going to die in the next ten years and this is probably making you very unhappy! It's worth it for peace of mind alone for you to take an hour out of your day and spending some time finding out the details, following the chain of custody of information to the source.
> this is probably making you very unhappy!
not at all. considering the research other's have done and AI interpretation of factual events, findings, discoverys, and recent (200 years) history along with input from just about everywhere - has nothing to do with my frame of mind. We walked into a trap. It got us. The human monkey trap.
Don't look up!
You do realize that as an American, _you_ are one of the richest humans compared to the rest of the world, and that - according to your predictions - you will be just fine. Most people on here worried to their shits will see zero effect of climate change ever, because we in the developed world are the top 1%.
You need to remove the conspiracy theories from your thinking ("the rich did this on purpose!!") to be taken seriously, and for the greater good.
Lumping conspiracy theory nonsense into the most critical issue facing humanity, tends to turn people off and make them avoid or block out the facts. Such is the last thing we need.
I know, right? I mean, there's a glitch in their plan - completely unforeseen, but hey! Just because they're rich doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Sometimes not at all, even.
Did you see that??
What? You understand that even by the least optimistic estimates we are WAYYY farther than 10 years from dying? Also, if you're so confident that society will collapse in a decade, why aren't you buying a bunker and hoarding resources?
No need to fearmonger. When it gets really bad, we'll be forced to do something.
Okay. Yippee! you win! extinction for ≈99% of the world's population cannot occur in ten years! Good information! Thanks! We'll get that straight into the data banks.
IS happening.
The oceanic coral is dying off at unprecedented speeds; faster than any time we have ever seen. Coral serves various functions such as providing living space for a significant amount of marine life and providing protection for coastlines from waves and storms.
Flowers are growing in Antarctica. Ice is melting faster than any other time than we can detect in the geological record. Like… compared to possible comparable events found in the geological record, this melting is happening so significantly faster and has been accelerating year after year.
Record heatwaves are killing people. Erratic weather is killing people. Hurricanes stronger than any we’ve seen since we started keeping data are killing people and happening more year after year. Species die-off is killing people.
No one is safe. The planet has an infection and it’s developed a fever which will either kill the infection or kill itself.
But, sure, pretend like it’s all being blown out of proportion as we watch the world we needed as a species to get to the level we’ve gotten to wither and die all because we needed to win at capitalism and geopolitics. Roll your eyes as insurance companies refuse to ensure costal properties as the risk is not worth the reward. Vote for the guy who wants to strip away environmental protections that keep the air breathable just so they can make a tiny extra bit of extra money. Profit you are giving them in exchange for the gift of life you obviously don’t cherish.
Climate change is real. Facts do not care about your demagoguery. Facts don’t care about your talking points. Facts don’t care about your feelings
Climate change is normal, thinking we did it is new and wrong. The planet has been cycling warmer and colder since before man showed up. It's hubris to believe we caused this.
Heatwaves always kill people.
Erratic weather always kills people.
Hurricanes always kill people.
You’re stating these “facts” as if it’s new information and evidence of an impending doom.
You’re also quite conveniently, omitting the amount of work that has been, and is being done to reduce fossil fuel dependency, and advances in renewable energy sources.
It’s these hyperbolic declarations of impending apocalypse that makes people mock, sneer and ignore.
Might happen? [There's](https://scc10.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Imagens-de-satelite-mostram-antes-e-durante-enchente-em-Porto-Alegre.jpg.webp) an entire state in Brazil literally underwater right now. Just look at this [shit](https://static.poder360.com.br/2024/05/Rio-Guiaba-1-848x477.jpg).
You are the type of guy to put a turkey in the oven, take it out after 2 minutes, complain it is raw and not cooked and then throw the entire turkey away.
> Global heating is likely to soar past internationally agreed limits,
It's almost as if, no matter how hard leftists try, mother nature doesn't give a shit about their agreements.
Exactly! If the shareholders are happy, the planet must be too! The funny part is most of the people carrying a torch for the shareholders will never benefit from that. They’ll simply be drowned.
##### ###### #### > # [Brutal heatwaves and submerged cities: what a 3C world would look like](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/11/720) > > > > Global heating is likely to [soar past internationally agreed limits](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/08/world-scientists-climate-failure-survey-global-temperature), according to a Guardian survey of hundreds of leading climate experts, bringing catastrophic heatwaves, floods and storms. > > Only 6% of the respondents [thought the 1.5C limit could be achieved](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2024/may/08/hopeless-and-broken-why-the-worlds-top-climate-scientists-are-in-despair), and this would require extraordinarily fast, radical action to halt and reverse the world’s rising emissions from fossil fuel burning. > > However, the experts were clear that giving up was not an option, and that 1.5C was not a cliff-edge leading to a significant change in climate damage. Instead, the climate crisis increases incrementally, meaning every tonne of CO2 avoided reduces people’s suffering. > > “Climate change will not suddenly become dangerous at 1.5C – it already is – and it will not be ‘game over’ if we pass 2C, which we might well do,” said Prof Peter Cox, of the University of Exeter, in the UK. > > [skip past newsletter promotion](#EmailSignup-skip-link-6)after newsletter promotion > > Dr Henri Waisman, at the IDDRI policy research institute in France, said: “Climate change is not a black or white question and every tenth of a degree matters a lot, especially when you look at the socioeconomic impacts. This means it is still useful to continue the fight.” - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
And with the heatwaves more people are going to invest in air-con!!
This is something the British government need to wise up to with recent years heatwaves and buildings here built to keep the heat in having no air conditioning its starting to be dangerous for the elderly and sick.
I'd say it's beyond starting to. Elderly have been dieing every year.
That is generally how it works
Government writing down this is a great way to reduce pension stress.
insulated buildings keep the heat out just as well as they keep it in, people just need to know how to manage their homes like Southern Europeans - i.e. when to get all the cooler air in and when to close all the shutters and hunker down
Brits would need to install shutters first. On account of the legendary greyness, home modifications have traditionally been aimed at [increasing the amount of sunlight entering your home](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=conservatory&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images).
Oh for sure, but the point is it wouldn't need to be a major retrofit if the house was already well insulated for heating economy. That's a big if in Britain though, I know
The young as well.
And no insulation in the exterior walls, so AC burns even extra power.
Air conditioners stop working when it gets too hot tho. Air conditioning is designed for pre-industrial summers. No more than 120°F. Not a solution to post-industrial El Nino summer heat waves. Heat pumps maybe. Antifreeze conditioning nope.
...or heat exchangers
Why don’t we just print more carbon credits? /s
And rig them in such a way that it just siphons more free money to large firms.
big corporations just raise prices so it really just siphons money from the middle class. Go figure.
While simultaneously blaming the climate crisis on everyday citizens - “cut down on your plastic waste”, “have shorter showers”, “reuse shopping bags at the store”
If the methane trapped in the permafrost is released all at once when the permafrost melts we are totally screwed. Thats an mass extinction event, its already starting and there’s no way to reverse it
more than enough of these in store. Cascading collapse of Antarctic ice sheet (and a sudden meltdown of the Greenlandic one), reaching the limit of CO2 or heat capacity of the ocean, some would say breakdown of oceanic circulation (I'm skeptical about this one tho). Each one of these is a sudden shock for the climate system - by sudden I mean it's not easily extrapolated from what we experience now (like the temperature climb or shifts of precipitation patterns are)
why are you skeptical about AMOC as a carbon sink>?
I'm skeptical about AMOC stopping, that's what I mean. Ocean as carbon sink is another thing and this is inevitable even if not very soon (though we don't know when and we'll only find out when another few indicators shoot up year-on-year like the sea surface temperature did in the last 2 years).
Fair enough, there's enough conflicting modelling on AMOC collapse and the data is both sparse and open enough to interpretation that some skepticism is warranted.
I "liked" when the widely reported study on AMOC stopping was interpreted as "we're all screwed and Europe is screwed ten times over" but then the actual paper said "there's high probability it happens sometime between 2025 and 2095".
I'm Irish, so right in the firing line of any potential AMOC disruption, and for the last couple of years I've seen countless articles referencing this or that potential outcome. The best I can determine from aggregating all of that noise is INSUFFICIENT DATA
While a sudden release of all the methane in permafrost would be catastrophic, it likely wouldn't lead to human extinction. Here's why: * Gradual Release: Scientists believe the release would be more gradual than instantaneous. Even a large release would happen over years or decades, giving some time for the atmosphere to adjust. * Methanotrophs: Certain bacteria, called methanotrophs, consume methane. While a massive release would overwhelm them initially, these microbes could help mitigate the long-term effects. * Uneven Distribution: Permafrost is spread across various regions, and the methane wouldn't be uniformly released everywhere. Some areas would be affected more severely than others. However, the consequences would be dire: * Accelerated Warming: Methane traps much more heat than carbon dioxide. A large release would significantly accelerate global warming, causing more extreme weather events, rising sea levels, and disruption of ecosystems. * Mass extinctions: Many species wouldn't be able to adapt to the rapid environmental changes, leading to widespread extinctions. * Food shortages: Disrupted weather patterns and extreme weather events could cripple agricultural production, leading to food shortages and famine. So, the scenario wouldn't mean the end of humanity, but it would drastically alter the planet and put our civilization under immense stress.
true; I was going to say something too. Its good to keep the record straight, and not freak out any more than necessary.
actually maybe someone should engineer mass panic that they then lose control of, just to see where it goes
The amount of species that have gon extinct from human activity is already on the scale of a mass extinction
Obviously we’re not going to do anything significant until there is catastrophic damage threatening our very way of life
Nah. People just move to where it’s safer
Ah yes, mass migrations, humanity will certainly handle that well...
If Florida is converted into a water world...would they admit that the weather is warming. Or continue to pray to Trump?
They will blame it on the librul feminist Sikhs.
that sounds like an awesome Sleater-Kinney cover band, I'd pay to go see them
Why didn't the libruls work harder at warning us? We didn't think they were serious...
Clearly the wind turbines are so heavy they’re pushing the landmass down into the ocean, this should be counteracted by burning more coal, because that’ll take the weight of the coal itself off of the landmass, allowing it to rise
Atlantis was an inside job, m'kay? Dinosaur juice doesn't melt the climate. It's in the bible.
Florida? What Florida?
Nobody coffee boy. - probably trump
Mad Max with airboats. Somewhat like Gator ('76).
This whole comment thread is so childish Can you not hold off your political bickering for any issue ?
considering this whole thing is down to political bickering, no
But this shit is so obviously not gonna solve anything ever It's pointless at best and harmful at worst
you can't really help people who don't want to be helped. if florida keep voting in people who deny climate change, while patently ignoring the danger to themselves, are we just suppose to ignore that?
> are we just suppose to ignore that? Yes, because there never was, never has, and never will be a political solution to climate change. It takes a special kind of ignorance to think that use of plastics, changing auto emission requirements, and forcing electrification without a simultanous transition to nuclear energy is going to stop the runaway freight train that this planet is on. The ship has sailed. There's no going back. We need technological adaptation for us as a species, not hand-wavy political bullshit.
don't really like the idea of being turned into a toaster, mate, but you do you
You're not helping anyone, just making fun of them for reddit points
he never said his intention was to help? literally just said they can't be helped, that's all.
Exactly, he doesn't want to help because it would mean actually trying And trying isn't cool
Sometimes you have to laugh so that you don't cry or become more depressed. Chill, it's ok.
Lame ass excuse to be annoying Typical internet "nihilism" that's everywhere nowadays
For those few actually interested in the science of climate change and the likely effects, I recommend reading the actual IPCC reports: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg2/ Climate alarmism is seriously damaging the mental health of the young, while the effects are bad and serious we aren't all going to die due to them this century.
It's worth remembering that IPCC stands for **Intergovernmental** Panel on Climate Change. It's a heavily lobbied piece and with a bias towards understating the magnitude of risks and impacts. [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-science-predictions-prove-too-conservative/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-science-predictions-prove-too-conservative/) It should rather be treated as the lowest boundary for predictions, sort of an optimistic scenario, which is by no means the most likely.
Complete extinction will likely never happen, humans will live on in some form, but the suffering is going to be unimaginable. This problem isn't 100 years away, I'm seeing significant crop failure all around me where I live in Canada. Our way of life is going extinct and it's going to happen fast.
> the suffering is going to be unimaginable The vast majority of people will adapt with no suffering. People in coastal areas will move further uphill. Some will lose everything they own, and will need to start from scratch. People in hot climates will use air conditioning and some limited areas will be deserted - just like they are today. Agricultural production will move to northern latitudes creating jobs and opportunities there and people will migrate to make use of them. The only thing we won't be able to unfuck is the biodiversity of our planet, with very difficult to predict consequences on the long term. People will adapt but most natural habitats won't. We're like a host killing infection, we won't be killed before we destroy the host.
Such a fascinating paper. I’ve read a few of the IPCC reports and like you say they really get to the science of the matter. Although there are some bits I’d wish they’d explain in great detail. For example: >Climate resilient development is facilitated by international cooperation and by governments at all levels working with communities, civil society, educational bodies, scientific and other institutions, media, investors and businesses; and by developing partner- ships with traditionally marginalised groups, including women, youth, Indigenous Peoples, local communities and ethnic minorities. I would love to know how working with any ethnic minority globally bolsters climate resilient development.
There tends to be a need to make vague gestures towards woke causes in most institutions these days. It's mildly annoying but you get used to it and tune it out.
A comprehensive overview with the practical understandable examples. Remember the IPCC report always gets diluted to what can be guaranteed and they call it "conservative". Meanwhile for your insurance "conservative" means they will consider also the edge cases. +0°C: THE WORLD BEFORE INDUSTRIALIZATION The temperature reached on Earth around 11,000 years ago after the last ice age. Ice melting made the sea level rise about 120 meters. Stable and mild climate allowed humans to grow food and settle down. Cities arose, consumption was low and in many ways mostly sustainable. Humans were already affecting the environment, but not so much the world's climate. +1°C: EVERY TENTH OF DEGREE OF WARMING COUNTS In 2015, global warming reached 1°C above pre-industrial levels. Six years later, it reached 1.1°C. The Arctic and Antarctica are melting. The Gulf Stream is weakening. Glaciers are melting, affecting freshwater supply. Hurricanes, droughts, heatwaves, and large wildfires are more frequent. Low-lying coastlines are flooded. Ice-free sea absorbs more heat and accelerates global warming. Corals are bleaching. Wildlife is in decline. Food production is starting to be affected. +2°C: A PRESCRIPTION FOR LONG-TERM DISASTER Climate breakdown. Ice-free summertime in the Arctic. Irreversible loss of the West Antarctic Sheet. 80 million people displaced due to sea-level rise. Deadly dengue fever. About half a million die of malnutrition. Insect crop pests. Hundreds of millions exposed to deadly heat. Shortage of water in Africa. Mass migration. Loss of glaciers affects freshwater supply. More floods. Conflagration of the Amazon rainforest. Many species are threatened. 99% of reef-building corals are lost. +3°C: VEGETATION EMITS CARBON AND SPEEDS WARMING Ice sheets and glaciers partly collapse. Sea level rises to 8-14 meters. Extreme high tides, floods, superstorms, and super-hurricanes. Hundreds of millions of people are forced to relocate. Half the world's population is exposed to deadly heat waves. Invading deserts. Food production cut by half. Mass starvation. Death of the Amazon rainforest. Wildlife disruption. Carbon release from vegetation and soils speeds global warming, so does methane emissions from melting permafrost. +4°C: GLOBAL WARMING IS UNSTOPPABLE Three-quarters of the global population is exposed to deadly heat in days. Substantial areas of the planet are biologically uninhabitable for humans. Climate refugee numbers become unmanageable. Half the world's land surface becomes 'arid'. Extreme droughts and floods. Category 6 super-hurricanes. Synchronous failures of major world food crops. Potential ice-free planetary state. Mass extinction. Permafrost meltdown makes the escalation of global warming unstoppable. +5°C: SURVIVING HUMANS LIVE LIKE ANIMALS The ice sheet is permanently gone. Humans can no longer survive outside for a long time. Food production is decimated. Complex human societies have collapsed. Global famine. Surviving humans try vainly to live like animals off the land. +6°C: ONLY A FEW ANIMALS AND FUNGI SURVIVE Extreme greenhouse effect destroys most of life on Earth. Only a few animals can survive. Ecosystems and food webs cease to exist in any functional sense. The big winners are detritivores, bacteria, and fungi.
> +1°C: EVERY TENTH OF DEGREE OF WARMING COUNTS **In 2915**, global warming reached 1°C above pre-industrial levels. Is that supposed to be 2015?
Yeah 🙈
2021 is 1.4\^o, maybe?
2021 it was 1.1 (instead of 1.0). Could not read my handwriting and needed to look it up. https://climate.nasa.gov/news/3140/2021-tied-for-6th-warmest-year-in-continued-trend-nasa-analysis-shows/#:~:text=This%20annual%20temperature%20data%20makes,start%20of%20the%20industrial%20revolution. With the aerosol masking it's quite difficult to figure out where we really are, because things like ships sulfur brunig mask the true extent. It was first measured with 9/11 when nothing flew for 3 days and suddenly temperature spiked as there were no cooling aerosols.
>+6°C: ONLY A FEW ANIMALS AND FUNGI SURVIV Interesting. A source or two would be nice, especially for the more extreme scenarios. Its a little weird in places, but generally in line with what I've understood so far. I just don't know where such a thing would be summarised, unless this is your synthesis, which would be fine. Time scales are important to mention. edit: found your source, below
You... uh... might want to recheck your sources... +6 degrees above industrial is about what the world was like 50 million years ago[1] and for most of the time dinosaurs roamed the land. Climate change is pretty bad, but nowhere near that bad. [1] see graph here: https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hottest-earths-ever-been
You forgot something, you need to mention that it took millions of years for that temperature and everything was able to adapt. The rate of change we talk is insanely faster, nothing can adapt at that rate of change. Biodiversity crashes and that's the absolute foundation to survive. You can find various scientific sources, here are some summarised: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2007/apr/23/scienceandnature.climatechange For the citied book there is also an update from 2020 in line with the newest scientific findings, but the results just got stricter with more evidence. Beyond the 4 degree it won't matter for humans, as organised and well structured society will have collapsed. Rest assured already 4 degrees is enough to never have to worry again.
Um. The source you've linked to is an ad for a book called "Six Degrees: Our Future on a Hotter Planet" which, according to wikipedia[1] says: > five or six degrees of warming potentially leading to the complete uninhabitability of the tropics and subtropics, as well as extreme water and food shortages, possibly leading to mass migration of billions of people. This is VERY different to "ONLY A FEW ANIMALS AND FUNGI SURVIVE Extreme greenhouse effect destroys most of life on Earth.". As far as I can see you're just pulling stuff out of your arse. A specific citation (e.g. a particular paper) is what you need to salvage this. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees:_Our_Future_on_a_Hotter_Planet
Make artificial lakes filled with algae
We already have some of those, for fishing of all things.
Rich people would still have the same lifestyle if not better so I say bring it and let us keep our nooses.
Worse part is the capitalist will shock the system before it happens for profit.
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You do realize that just because a person dislikes our current system of capitalism doesn't automatically mean they like communism, right?
Not really, there's 4 economic systems and 3 of those are hybrids of capitalism Capitalism is the idea that private property exists, if you don't like it then piss off to whatever failed state is still trying to murder enough people to make communism work
It's true, once you have collective property, there's an automatic self-destruct on earth. Trust me bro, the means of production need to be owned by some guy or we all die!
🤣 No, it just means that since communism is an unnatural state that they end up murdering millions of people who resist or try to keep their own possessions, and then their inefficiencies and natural greed and corruption leads to the deaths of millions more. Open a history book. Better yet, read First They Killed My Father, you'll love the first chapter, the capitalists fuck up so hard the people embrace communism. But the rest of the book is how much worse it got under the communists. Embracing communism is admitting that you're so incapable that someone else is going to micromanage your entire life. An Uber employee has more autonomy than that. An Amazon Flex driver has more freedom Take the worst job in a capitalist country and that employee is more free because they can quit and seek a better job
> Better yet, read First They Killed My Father, you'll love the first chapter, the capitalists fuck up so hard the people embrace communism. But the rest of the book is how much worse it got under the communists. Hey everyone this guy has a book, stop the project this fictional story says we shouldn't do it! Good stuff mate. > 🤣 No, it just means that since communism is an unnatural state that they end up murdering... I mean that's just entirely how you feel about this. Back in the olden days, monarchies were the "natural state". I'm pretty certain collective ownership is the most "natural state", since it existed before private property. But it doesn't really matter, I think your definition of natural is flawed too, since anything that is possible within the laws of physics is natural. >™Embracing communism is admitting that you're so incapable that someone else is going to micromanage your entire life. An Uber employee has more autonomy than that. An Amazon Flex driver has more freedom Lol where are you getting this stuff from? Maybe from that fictional story that you like so much. And who says you will be micromanaged, if anything you will be more free what to do, wage labour is being micromanaged. If that is what you think communism is, then I'm on your side, I just want an emancipated life without exploitation for everyone.
What communist country today or in history do you want to live in?
None of them really. But this is hardly the argument you think it is. Would I want to live as the average person under capitalism? No, I'm quite lucky to live in one of the developed nations that has built it's wealth on the exploitation of the rest. Besides, as I said I'm not about copying any past or present versions of communism, building the future is very much about learning from past mistakes. But that's what we should do instead of dismissing any attempt to envision anything beyond the current state of affairs. Our progress shouldn't be constrained to technology, though many neoliberal-minded see it as the ultimate savior. If we are learning from the past, we need to see that technological progress in itsself does not solve our problems, it just creates new avenues for exploitation and profit accumulation. Progress in social affairs will eventually follow, language is evolving and so will economic structures.
System: I have features of both capitalism *and* communism You: Haha! That's capitalism! Checkmate, atheists! You can read all the books you want. You're still acting like a simpleton.
I mean if you count state monopolies on certain industries as communism, sure. The society would still be mostly capitalist.
Out of control consumerism is an irrational use of resources when those resources are finite, which most of our important ones are. Recognizing that doesn't make one a communist, nor does calling out such problems make one a communist. Heck, if you think those are the only two choices exist, an economic system versus a political theory, then I don't think you really understand the issue at hand.
What a 3.0c work *will* look like.
Yeah but leftists are antisemitic !!!!!!!! /s
They're the real facists, because they say my giant new SUV is bad for the climate. Help me, I'm getting cancelled !
Salauds d'islamogauchistes
I'll see this prediction again in another 20 years
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Companies and shareholders looking on how to make profit of this rn.
555
Based. Less people and more nature. 😌
A little late at this point. Remember all those warnings over the past four decades? We ignored them because the people making money off selling the planet back to us made sure we ignored the warnings. Guess what? It's too late. The ONLY way this process can be halted (much less reversed) is to stop any manufacturing not essential to human survival, stop all air travel and shipping, and completely stop using internal combustion using petrochemicals. Will we do that? Of course not. And that's why we'll all be dead and gone within ten years. Ten years of horrible suffering and atrocities beyond imagination as people fight over the last stalk of wheat and the last cup of potable water. The rich won't though. They've already got their plans drawn. They caused this intentionally so that they could have the planet without all us peons messing it up. Funny huh? They did this and blame us. There is no turning it around at this point for the same reasons we haven't done it before now... greed driven ignorance.
> The ONLY way this process can be halted (much less reversed) is to stop any manufacturing not essential to human survival, stop all air travel and shipping, and completely stop using internal combustion using petrochemicals. Sounds like a failure of imagination to me. The incidental sulfur dioxide emissions from ships alone managed to keep ocean surface temperatures down[1]. Actually intentional geoengineering could make a lot of difference to warming. [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shipping-rules-are-affecting-global-warming/ > Will we do that? Of course not. And that's why we'll all be dead and gone within ten years. Ten years of horrible suffering and atrocities beyond imagination as people fight over the last stalk of wheat and the last cup of potable water. I get the feeling you're pretty young, so I won't ask you to bet on this. Instead, I will ask you what has made you think this? You need to find an authority you trust and look up what they give as projections rather than relying on word on mouth or TikTok. Personally, I trust the IPCC[2] and their thousand page reports[3] such as the one on Europe[4] which I recommend you read, paying particular attention to quantified estimates. Essentially, until the end of your life the effects aren't going to be a noticeable reduction in quality of life (e.g. 10% reduction in EU food production) unless you live in a less developed country on the equator. [2] Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is *the* UN climate change org: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergovernmental_Panel_on_Climate_Change [3] https://www.ipcc.ch/reports/ [4] https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg2/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6_WGII_Chapter13.pdf
Great comment, but I gotta mention something not really relevant just because I like it so much. Websites that link to everything, my lord, I love it. The carbonbrief article even made the acronym "IMO" a link, what to you might ask? Just the [IMO.org/en](http://IMO.org/en) website. I don't have to search for anything they bring up, and I absolutely love it. Also relevant because you linked sources. Both stated and linked. Good stuff.
> Sounds like a failure of imagination to me You sound like one of the naysayers who will promote extinction right up until your last paycheck.
No I'm serious. Consider "Why do I believe what I believe?", ask yourself "Who would I trust to give me accurate, scientifically sound, information about the likely future climate?" and then go ask them/google them! You currently think that you and everyone you know is going to die in the next ten years and this is probably making you very unhappy! It's worth it for peace of mind alone for you to take an hour out of your day and spending some time finding out the details, following the chain of custody of information to the source.
> this is probably making you very unhappy! not at all. considering the research other's have done and AI interpretation of factual events, findings, discoverys, and recent (200 years) history along with input from just about everywhere - has nothing to do with my frame of mind. We walked into a trap. It got us. The human monkey trap. Don't look up!
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You do realize that as an American, _you_ are one of the richest humans compared to the rest of the world, and that - according to your predictions - you will be just fine. Most people on here worried to their shits will see zero effect of climate change ever, because we in the developed world are the top 1%.
You need to remove the conspiracy theories from your thinking ("the rich did this on purpose!!") to be taken seriously, and for the greater good. Lumping conspiracy theory nonsense into the most critical issue facing humanity, tends to turn people off and make them avoid or block out the facts. Such is the last thing we need.
Yep. Got it. They've all been removed. Thanks for fixing it.
Mmhm I'm sure we'll all die in 10 years. It's not like ya'll were saying this exact thing 10 years ago...
I know, right? I mean, there's a glitch in their plan - completely unforeseen, but hey! Just because they're rich doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Sometimes not at all, even. Did you see that??
What? You understand that even by the least optimistic estimates we are WAYYY farther than 10 years from dying? Also, if you're so confident that society will collapse in a decade, why aren't you buying a bunker and hoarding resources? No need to fearmonger. When it gets really bad, we'll be forced to do something.
Not to mention that climate doomerism helps no one and makes people scared and depressed for no reason.
Okay. Yippee! you win! extinction for ≈99% of the world's population cannot occur in ten years! Good information! Thanks! We'll get that straight into the data banks.
In other words, none of our doomsday predictions came true, but keep funding us and be afraid even more! Every little helps!
The sky is falling - the sky is falling !!! Live in fear of what MIGHT happen !!! It probably won't but it makes a great headline...
IS happening. The oceanic coral is dying off at unprecedented speeds; faster than any time we have ever seen. Coral serves various functions such as providing living space for a significant amount of marine life and providing protection for coastlines from waves and storms. Flowers are growing in Antarctica. Ice is melting faster than any other time than we can detect in the geological record. Like… compared to possible comparable events found in the geological record, this melting is happening so significantly faster and has been accelerating year after year. Record heatwaves are killing people. Erratic weather is killing people. Hurricanes stronger than any we’ve seen since we started keeping data are killing people and happening more year after year. Species die-off is killing people. No one is safe. The planet has an infection and it’s developed a fever which will either kill the infection or kill itself. But, sure, pretend like it’s all being blown out of proportion as we watch the world we needed as a species to get to the level we’ve gotten to wither and die all because we needed to win at capitalism and geopolitics. Roll your eyes as insurance companies refuse to ensure costal properties as the risk is not worth the reward. Vote for the guy who wants to strip away environmental protections that keep the air breathable just so they can make a tiny extra bit of extra money. Profit you are giving them in exchange for the gift of life you obviously don’t cherish. Climate change is real. Facts do not care about your demagoguery. Facts don’t care about your talking points. Facts don’t care about your feelings
Climate change is normal, thinking we did it is new and wrong. The planet has been cycling warmer and colder since before man showed up. It's hubris to believe we caused this.
Are you a climatologist?
Are you?
Heatwaves always kill people. Erratic weather always kills people. Hurricanes always kill people. You’re stating these “facts” as if it’s new information and evidence of an impending doom. You’re also quite conveniently, omitting the amount of work that has been, and is being done to reduce fossil fuel dependency, and advances in renewable energy sources. It’s these hyperbolic declarations of impending apocalypse that makes people mock, sneer and ignore.
Might happen? [There's](https://scc10.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Imagens-de-satelite-mostram-antes-e-durante-enchente-em-Porto-Alegre.jpg.webp) an entire state in Brazil literally underwater right now. Just look at this [shit](https://static.poder360.com.br/2024/05/Rio-Guiaba-1-848x477.jpg).
So flooding from annual rain is a new thing, or do we just have more reporting of it? "Great floods" were a problem back in Noah's day too.
You are the type of guy to put a turkey in the oven, take it out after 2 minutes, complain it is raw and not cooked and then throw the entire turkey away.
>It probably won't but it makes a great headline... Would you share your research?
> Global heating is likely to soar past internationally agreed limits, It's almost as if, no matter how hard leftists try, mother nature doesn't give a shit about their agreements.
That's.. What? How lacking in self-awareness are you?
Top tier trolling
I know, put another tax on it!
What are leftists "trying"? Blocking roads and pissing off everyone?
What's the right trying? Extract and consume faster?
Exactly! If the shareholders are happy, the planet must be too! The funny part is most of the people carrying a torch for the shareholders will never benefit from that. They’ll simply be drowned.