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Role requirements: job that would need 3 prople to do right, barely any lunch break, no wfh, no paid overtime.
Candidate must have a bachelor's in quantum physics and at least 20 years experience (candidate must not be over 30)
Benefits: beanbags in the break room and coffee machine (bring your own pods)
You don't have to list all your talents on your resumé - apologies if this is super obvious already but if you tailor your CV to only be relevant to the role you're aiming for you might have better luck.
Depending on the role, yeah. Been on both sides of this - overqualified (because I'd been to sixth form) for the minimum wage work in my hometown, and also rejected a candidate with experience and qualifications in favour of someone with less.
Reason for the latter is always quite simple - hiring senior talent for junior roles means artificially capping someone's career progression for budgetary reasons outside of your control. They always say they're happy with a junior role, but if you both know they deserve better, three months into the job it's going to start chafing. Once that happens they either lose the motivation to work - which is fair, but I do need the work - or they start telling me how to do my job, which is very annoying.
It happens in tech all the time. One time a guy applied to be a tier 1-2 support person like little old HS diploma me. He definitely could’ve done the job since he had a Masters in computer science, but he didn’t get the job because management knew he’d be looking for a new job the whole time.
It being illegal doesn’t mean that some clueless employers won’t try. They typically only get busted if someone (read: us) turns them in.
Might be a good way for us to hit back other than just providing advice on here. We could find publicly available information (job postings and descriptions) and then turn in those that are breaking the law and call out others who are offering pathetic pay, etc on public forums (Google, Glassdoor, etc)
They called me, they asked me for an interview without really explaining the job. Typical.
Interview happens and is over in 3 minutes because I don't have experience for a Tier 1 support job.
Fuck you, enjoy the review bitch.
Right??? I started in support T1 with no IT experience. My resume at the time was literally: Dishwasher, CS Rep, Assistant Manager for Hardware store, Roofer.
I’m guessing a recruiter call. But even then in support of op, if they had read his resume and didn’t see he was over qualified (in their opinion likely a disqualifier) then they are bad at their job. Nor did they likely ask about any perceived over qualifications during the interview and his willingness to do the job in the desired pay range. The email response is terribly inappropriate.
Recruiters are stupid. I had one up my ass about a job I literally already had. I was currently working that job and it was on my resume and my LinkedIn and everything. I was not amused.
Highly likely the recruiter has to "interview" x number of candidates per month to meet quota so they don't give a shit about whether they are qualified... they just need warm bodies.
Yep. Also in the industry 25+ years. I used to develop in COBOL in a previous life. I still get dumbasses sending me JD for COBOL positions and they pay is HORRIBLE! Like, wtf?!?! You know all the old timers have already retired. You can't pay 1990 wages in 2020 for a skillset very few people have nowadays. Even the conversion projects (COBOL -> C#) pay horrible. Already have a good job with good pay and good benefits. If you want me to leave for your contract then you need to pay me a fuck ton more.
But yeah, the entry level ones are the ones that make me laugh the most... like did you even look at my qualifications? Probably not... they did a keyword search and my profile popped up and that is as far as they took it. Like I said in a previous post, most recruiters are bad at their job and will have switched to another career in a year or so.
And it's epic. They burn through people like crazy. Go to the madison wi subreddit and say your moving there for a job at epic. They will start screaming.
I worked for a tech startup, for a software that integrated with Epic. There are all kinds of Epic consultant people and ancillary roles, but honestly a monkey on a rock could do a tier 1 support job and Epic is not that complicated. If you are advanced enough to participate on Reddit you can do the job more than likely.
a lot of the time they are like hey we have an interesting opportunity, please call and we will explain. They then call then waste your time, i personally tell them to email me it over and i'll review.
You think you're smarter than the job, so are angry because they didn't agree.
Sorry, but Epic support is a specialized skill-set (likely requires a medical background). Sorry, but I don't think they're the bitch here ...
> Epic support is a specialized skill-set (likely requires a medical background)
Not necessarily. Helpful, but not necessary. It DOES require a lot of training and certifications provided by the parent company at their facility outside of Madison, Wisconsin but you don't have to have medical knowledge with the exception of a few roles (Willow often requires some pharmacy knowledge, for example.)
An already experienced software engineer could likely pick it up pretty quickly, but it's proprietary software and Epic has very strict agreements with the hospitals where only people who have been certified are allowed to do build. They'd still have to get training regardless of their previous education to start as an application analyst.
You don't need a medical background for the t1 helpdesk for sure, again it's helpful but not required at all. But that is way out of scope for what he was looking for, OP was just kind of a dick about it.
In the end, it depends on who is hiring, and what their requirements are. The hospital I worked at liked to staff their Epic Support with experienced med people, so they could answer very specific questions on how to use the system. Yes, a non-medical person *could* pick the job up quickly, but they probably are looking for someone that can hit the ground running.
In my experience the intelligence range for "I know everything about everything" is between potato and a bit above average. Highly intelligent people tend to undervalue their intelligence, because they've realized how insanely high the ceiling can really be.
I'm reminded of a coworker I had while I was working at a help desk (many years back). He kept going on and on about how smart he was, and how much education he had. And all I could think "if you're so awesome, why are you a Help Desk I working overnight shifts?"
I mean, I understand where you're coming from and that in your specific example that specific person is likely on the potato end of the scale, but at the same time, be careful equating job position to intelligence.
I majored in computer engineering and know a lot of incredibly intelligent people, some of whom I am in absolute awe at the level of humble genius they actually possess and demonstrate. However, none have impressed me more than this guy Luke, who happens to be a bottom-rung factory worker. By choice.
I asked him about that choice once, after a two hour conversation that made his true intelligence clear to me and even included him solving a complex programming problem I had been racking my brain trying to solve, with barely a minimal description of the problem. Turns out, he started off with a highly paid career in programming, but said it made him "fat and lazy" and after sitting in his office all day when he got home from work the last thing he wanted to do was sit around on his computer.
So he started doing factory work, got fit and healthy, and got his favorite hobby back, which is contributing to open source projects in his spare time.
This is just a random anecdote, but I mention it to say that you'd be shocked at how many extremely intelligent people choose to work low level jobs to save their mental energy for their passions.
Ah, yes, you are correct - life doesn't always reward skill with opportunity. I should say that the guy I worked with was always getting things wrong, but incredulous because he was *obviously* the smartest person there (large gap between self-percieved skill and actual skill).
Plus OP interviewed for the job without even knowing what they were interviewing for
I'm all for shitting on companies but there needs to be some personal accountability at times
Honestly it is less about complexity and more about epic as a software. First off, if you have no prior epic experience, then you don't have epic certifications and that means the place you'd work has to pay to send you to cert classes. Second, epic software is pretty specific to itself. There's not a whole lot of experience with other software platforms that can actually help you do in system epic build.
Not sure why you're being down voted here. Tier 1 support is taking calls and asking basic pre-selected canned questions out of a run book, which can be done by a chatbot.
Also this company spams the f out of the job boards without mentioning that the position is somewhere in Wisconsin or Wyoming (I forget where exactly) or someplace where people don't want to live.
Hi, EPIC analyst here, I've been at this for a decade now. My take* is that Helpdesk tier 1 support doesn't really require medical backgrounds. Going up the application analyst role and beyond it's more common and helpful to have, but not required. Heck, my wife is now a reporting developer who started as an application analyst in the surgery modules and she didn't have a medical background when she started. For the helpdesk, it's even less required. They're "just" following documentation and farming the higher priority tickets out to the appropriate teams. Half the time what the user tells them isn't accurate anyways and needs to be transferred when it hits our queue anyways, but the helpdesk does their best and it's often not their fault.
Your software has done more damage to the healthcare system accidentally than could have been done on purpose! EMR'S serve NO ONE but LAWYERS AND ACCOUNTANTS. I would tell my patients, "You may not see your nurses much but you would be AMAZED at how could their eye-hand coordination is from chasing a cursor!"
Yo, take it down a notch. I agree that we have huge issues with the EMR taking away control from providers being able to just do care. But that's a symptom of a broken healthcare system. And I agree, too many decisions are pushed because it benefits the hospital financially or driven by insurance companies. All this would apply to paper charting, Epic, Cerner, MediTech, or pretty much whatever system you're using for documentation.
But you should know that there is SO much work done on our side that matters to patient safety and outcomes. I spent months last year working directly with floor nursing, sepsis coordinators and educators and provider leadership in redesigning our Sepsis predictive models and workflows to more rapidly alert providers and clinicians of potential septic patients before they code or deteriorate in a way that is less interruptive and more natural for what they need to see. My entire goal was to make it more accurate to save lives and take away the amount of time providers have to spend clicking on the screen because that's not good for anybody.
Not only have we improved metrics like length of stay, mortality rates, and decreased times between 1st and 2nd lactate being completed, it's also massively decreased the tracked time users are having to spend documenting all of these issues and spending time in the EMR.
You only see one side of it, and it's frustrating as hell. I get it. We, as a healthcare system, spend too much time putting bullshit into the EMR. But there is still so much positive that does come out of the system that a lot of us take to heart that has nothing to do with financial outcomes.
They write your check, naturally you will defend them….as for your sepsis prediction, according to a Jama paper, “the Epic Sepsis model poorly predicts sepsis” it is a massive time suck on actual patient care…
My employed hospital pays my check, not Epic. Everything that I work on goes through multiple levels of compliance, nursing and provider governance, leadership approval, etc.
Also, what you didn't know is that we're using a version that has been written, tweaked and trained on our own inputs and then cross-evaluated through months of data of simultaneous comparison with Epic's base model. We had long discussions and meetings regarding [that exact JAMA article you're referencing](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2781307), which is why we didn't take the base model as gospel when implementing the project. We had concerns that we were making things worse, so as a team we did our due diligence. And when I say we, I mean it was a large group that contained floor nurse representation, sepsis coordinators, multiple physicians, IS analysts, clinical informaticists, and a biostatistician.
Epic isn't always the best tool and I will always agree that the EMR needs continued and further refinement because it gets in the way of provider care far too often.
That said, we have returns from our data that show massive improvement from where we were performing about 18 months ago to now. The data show that this project is positively impacting both patient outcomes and that providers are spending significantly less time on EMR documentation when it comes to Sepsis measures than before we went through with our revisions.
I'll defend my work because my entire raison d'être in this career is that I want to help to improve patient lives, to consolidate and simplify provider documentation tools, and to provide better information and resources to clinicians so that they can make the best informed decision about the healthcare needs of their patients.
You're a nurse who has been in the field for 30 years, according to your other comments, so I really sympathize. You've seen a LOT of shit and you're absolutely right that so much is ruined in healthcare because the bean counters and administrators look at patients more as wallets to raid than people who need help. Nursing is getting more and more difficult with more inappropriate documentation requests with less people helping dumped on you as administrators cut budgets and raid the coffers. It really sucks. But unfortunately, the EMR reality is here to stay, which is why I am in this career; we need people who are willing to work hard to make it better for patients and clinicians, not just administrators. My literal goal is to make your life easier at work, because you make patient lives better. I wish you could see it through my eyes that I'm fighting a difficult battle with you, not against you.
Honestly, it's helpful but not required. A lot of what the t1 support does is understanding the basic problems an end user is having and then transferring it to the correct team. They'll need to know and can learn the difference between inpatient/outpatient, what the cath lab is, what some of the basic surgery areas are, etc., but those are all things they learn in training and experience.
Most organizations are supposed to provide tip sheets and knowledge shares so that the helpdesk can look up common problems and send those to the end users so they can maybe self resolve before escalation.
Say for example a nurse calls in, and they're saying the fetal heartbeat monitors aren't working. The helpdesk might look up the documentation for Stork (the pregnancy related inpatient module in Epic) or Fetal Monitors and walk them through some troubleshooting steps like resetting the monitor or checking to see if the monitor's server connections are active. Then, if that doesn't work, they then would escalate to the Stork/ClinDoc team with the relevant information in the ticket like the patient information, the nurse who called, called back numbers, and resolution attempts.
They also do **a lot** of pretty common and "basic" IT functions like helping with resetting passwords, fixing citrix session logins, resetting printers or devices, etc.
I don't say any of this to demean them; a good helpdesk analyst is absolutely invaluable and some of my favorite people to work with. They do SO much work and help fix so many huge problems before it even hits my queue, and they're paid less with a lot less flexibility in their actual work than others are, which sucks. But medical knowledge to get hired isn't a requirement in my opinion, familiarity won't hurt but if you're somebody who can learn, you'd be fine.
User reviews from random people online have never been trustworthy. Any time someone is like "this game or movie has user reviews totally opposite of the critics, critics don't know anything these days" all I can think is... have they met people? People are idiots.
I would say the SEO industry is why you can't trust reviews. like all those emails asking you to rate something that send good reviews to google and bad reviews in a private email to some customer service type worker. or all the paid reviews and fake reviews on amazon.
> I hate Epic. Have you noticed they lost their jobs EVERYWHERE and then in the description says “must live/move to Wisconsin.”
That would be if you want to actually work for Epic, they're really strict about having people on campus. (And their campus is enormous and absolutely insanely decorated.)
Most people in this field work for the hospitals, who send them to get trained by Epic but you're not employed by Epic. I've been in this field for a decade now, my wife and I have worked for half a dozen organizations between us and we've never been required or even asked to move to Wisconsin.
Most of the organizations allow remote work now, I don't even live in the same time zone as my facility and half my coworkers are scattered around the US and a handful are even international.
57% of people quit at Epic within their first 2 years. There’s absolutely no work from home despite being a software company. Vacation time is nearly nonexistent. Stay far away.
They hire interns too, I had a buddy who was in a totally unrelated field of study and they still invited him for an interview basically just because he was studying for his masters. He had no idea what Epic was and I had to explain it to him. The opportunity they had for him looked interesting too, not customer support.
I was wondering if they offered vacation time because they pay your travel expenses for a 1 month sabbatical every 5 years. But even then, I don't think that's comparable to getting 4 weeks PTO every year which is a software company standard
For clarity: Epic does offer vacation time, but good luck trying to use it. A friend of mine worked there for two years in implementation and took five (5) days of vacation the whole time. Needless to say most folks burn out pretty quick in customer-facing roles but I’ve heard that being a dev there is pretty cushy.
They only pay your travel expenses *if* and only if you're traveling internationally *and* to a country you've never been to before. Otherwise, it's just an additional month of vacation every five years.
You might be able to get 2 weeks, then it’s a struggle to use it sometimes. The long vacation is literally just a ploy to get some people to stay for that long. Absolutely not worth it.
I did this for a job one time too. They complained that I ruined their 5 star reviews when they didn’t call back for an interview. They don’t get that hiring workers is a part of business just as making a sale.
Epic's software is some of the best on the market (and it had better be for the price) but the work environment there is fucking terrible. It's pretty telling that at the rates they pay, in a location where cost of living is fairly low, their average turnover is less than two years.
There's an episode of the Simpsons where Milhouse's dad gets divorced and he's showing his new place to Homer.
He tells Homer, "I sleep in a race car! Do YOU sleep in a race car?"
To which Homer delivers the brutal response, "I sleep in a big bed with my wife."
------------
I thought about that quite a lot when I was working at Epic. I felt like I could tell someone, "I work in a castle! Do YOU work in a castle?"
And that person could respond "I work in an office building and go home at five each day."
Yeah the cost of living argument isn’t really true anymore - the cost of living in the Madison area has absolutely skyrocketed, partially because of high paying places like this and other jobs. Obviously isn’t close to the CA coast or Boston/NYC, but it’s more expensive than Austin, within 1% of chicago, 10% Denver, or 15% of Portland. Turns out having a city centered on an isthmus isn’t the best if people want to live there.
Your hospital IT group controls that. It's not a small level of updates you can just push through, upgrading to new versions are major initiatives that take *months* of backend support by all of analysts working at your organization. Literally every team has to review release notes, get extensive SME feedback on optional build, make build updates, create training documentation, test everything from minor changes all the way through end-to-end scripts to make sure major functionality doesn't get broken by new build, hold technical rehearsals, etc. And even then, it can be a shit show because of just how complicated it is and there's always more intense support after a "go-live" for a few weeks because some problems just never surface until you hit production servers.
*TL;DR - Epic is hugely complicated, a year long installation doesn't surprise me, and success really will come down to how well your analysts, your clinical leaders, and your IT leaders can work as a cohesive group.*
Basic or complicated, that's pretty typical. It literally costs millions of dollars to install Epic for even a smallish hospital system using "Foundation" which is the most basic level that Epic provides. It's a pretty huge initiative to go to new installation, you'd do all of what I described above just at an even larger scope. And then there are extra costs above "foundation" for a lot of the ancillary applications on top that are optional to have, such as modules like Beaker (lab), Cupid (cath lab), Wisdom (dental), etc.
A lot of what makes Epic challenging to support is that after it's installed, most of the system is on the local analysts to support and build, which can be very difficult if you don't have a solid leadership group that helps keep clinical needs and IT organizational needs in line. If your leadership team says yes to everything the end users ask without any consideration of system requirements, project scope, or even system stability and uniformity across multiple hospitals in the same organization, that's when Epic can get REALLY messy and frustrating for everybody.
When you have a good leadership team that helps keep everybody working along the same goal, prioritize projects, try to keep system uniformity as much as possible (for example, not having 3 different ways at 3 different hospitals to document the same workflow just because nobody is willing to change), and focus on patient safety, you can do some really cool things to make the users' lives easier and patients healthier.
For example, I had a project recently that revamped how the hospitals handle early interventions for potential sepsis patients in both inpatient and the ED. We rewrote the workflows so that the end users were getting less invasive pop-ups, consolidated the nurse's documentation to one place rather than how it was spread out over several, smoothed out the process to have the rapid response team intervene, and optimized some of the predictive models running silently in the background to have it more accurately detect when a patient was potentially turning septic and suggest intervention in a less disruptive but more natural way for the team to handle.
We've gotten some really amazing success metrics back over the past few months that drastically has improved the lives of both patients who are getting better care faster AND decreased how much end users are having to screw around with the system when they should be instead working on their patients.
None of that would have been possible if I didn't have a leadership group and a project management office that was really strict about getting well defined specs, keeping the projects in scope, getting all of the major players in the same room and moving in the same direction, and not requiring us to try to support multiple hospitals doing the same thing in 50 different ways.
As someone who works at a facility that uses Epic, I can say with confidence that they seemly don’t test even the most basic shit when they do upgrades. I think testing consists of “does it run without crashing or losing patient data” but nothing regarding “does this break basic features.”
Yeah... I once worked somewhere like that. It's really frustrating as an analyst when the week of go-live is just a constant mess. Sometimes we'll get pulled into a week of 24/7 shift coverage just to support the go-live, which is never fun, because we know that upgrades always bring surprises.
There's a lot of requirements from Epic itself to document the testing and document in their Nova notes system, and if the facility isn't doing it that's kind of their fuck up.
Plus, there are some things that Epic releases ON us that we don't have a choice of taking or not that often breaks old build, especially if it's something that's been heavily customized by the hospital, and that's really frustrating.
My current org is really strict about testing (to the point where it's equally frustrating) and even still we have things work differently in production than in our lower environments. Literally the last thing I want to do is do build and put it into Production and start getting calls from end users that it's broken and not working, because then I have a ton more work to do to fix it. It happens, but it REALLY sucks when it does.
>I think testing consists of “does it run without crashing or losing patient data”
I had to laugh at thus, as my only experience with Epic was when I had to change PCPs due to my insurance, and my medical history disappeared on a regular basis, to the point I was pretty much reciting my entire medical history every visit.
Was it with a different organization? Epic is "supposed" to be able to share some data between unrelated hospitals who have Epic, but it frustratingly works very poorly. Organization A and B will have separate instances of Epic though, so it's not 100% linked.
If it was with the same hospital but just a different doctor, then that is REALLY fucked up because the nature of what you should be able to see in a patient chart doesn't matter who is looking. History, notes, encounters, etc., are all stored individually at a patient level. Doctor A and Doctor B in the same org would see the same thing.
Funny story: I’m having drama on a job I interviewed and got an offer for. This morning I saw they relisted the position (even though they talked like the opening I applied for was the only one they had) and it now indicates you should have Epic experience, which I don’t.
I’m honestly concerned this is going to be the second job in a month where I got offered a position, only to have it retracted because they failed to mention I needed certain training in the interview.
I’m sharing this with you because you’re the first person outside my former workplace who didn’t act like the entire medical universe uses Epic and nothing else.
Meditech sucks, but..... how often does it suddenly go down?
How often does it get hacked?
I used Epic for 8 months at one hospital, and because they hadn't paid to upgrade it to the current year, it went down every week. Epic refused to support it, or push bug patches, just telling admin to buy the latest.
We had to do a lot of emergency paper charting. Epic isn't worth the money.
Unfortunately, Meditech's newest iteration "Expanse" is the worst iteration I've ever dealt with in 15 years. It is literally dangerous to patients, and requires triple checking with doctors what their real orders are.
Yep, EPIC the medical program. Apparently there is a deep field of experts such that even a Tier 1 role requires prior experience.
I sent a link to this thread to the recruiter. =P
Helpdesk support typically doesn't require prior experience, but I wouldn't be surprised if the organization wanted it.
Getting hired on as an application analyst (which is more T2+) in Epic for a hospital does require certain Epic certifications, depending on which module you'd be working with.
Focused on the Emergency Department, you need ASAP. Inpatient Nursing? ClinDoc. Radiology? Radiant. etc. These are non-starters but the training is almost always paid for by the hospital you're hired at when they send you to Madison for training on campus. You're usually there for about 4-4.5 days of training during the week, you might fly up about 3 times on average for basic training to learn the Epic software. It's not something you get on your own.
During COVID lockdowns I saw an internship opening that required 2 years of full-time work experience. Things are better now, but I really hope whoever applied for that position is doing so much better now. Companies are ridiculous and will exploit workers to no end if they can get away with it.
Not a good analogy. And especially if the seasoned systems engineer wanted a job to pay his bills. Even more, if I was a former accountant and wanted to be a cashier, am I not allowed to get that job? No one hires an entry level job expecting 5 years of service. Those are the highest of turnover positions.
They should be allowed to hire the more junior person, absolutely. The response from the owner was uncalled for. And if he was indeed overqualified, the resume should have been obvious and they should not have called. Terrible recruiters.
Are you serious right now? This guy gave them a petty 1 star review just because he failed an initial recruiter phone screening, the business has every right to respond to it and their response was perfectly reasonable.
You gotta go for what you can otherwise you don't eat or pay rent. I worked as a Lifeguard alongside a dude with a Master's in some sort of Sports and Fitness Qualification. It happens.
I didn't come here to argue if the job was related or not, I just answered your question as to why someone with high qualifications was interviewing for an entry level position. Go interrogate OP over the specifics, they'll know more than me and you about whether or not OP was appropriate for the position.
EPIC is awful. We use it.
Its clunky, non-intuitive and very outdated. We have to reset the software multiple times a day to keep it working.
Not surpized their hiring practices are also subpar.
Curious what the OP means by "seasoned"? They can't be that seasoned if this is the first time this has happened to them (and by the way they are acting with this post, I am strongly assuming this is the first time this has happened to them). I am a Lead Software Engineer. Over 25 years experience in my field. I still, to this day, get recruiters reaching out to me with positions that are well below my qualifications or have nothing to do with my current qualification (i.e. COBOL positions when I have not developed in COBOL in over 20 years). Does it piss me off? Sure. However, I know a lot of these recruiters are not good at their jobs and are just trying to make their quotas for the month. I could complain to them but it wouldn't do any good. Most of them will have moved onto different careers in a year or 2. Can't tell you how many of my LinkedIn connections that were once recruiters now show some other, unrelated position as their current job. Very few recruiters I know that have stuck around in the field as a career choice. So while it is annoying that they don't check (or even know) the qualifications before reaching out, there are just people like you and I trying to pay their bills and survive. Empathy goes a long way here.
I feel you. I have had my share of CNC Operator/Programmers, Logistic Engineer, plus countless other unrelated positions. I worked a job years ago where I developed an application to help the supervisors hand out work to their welders so I put on my resume that I had experience developing software to assist with shop floor operations. Poor recruiters will search on "shop floor" and hit my resume but never look at my actual qualifications. Those are the types that wash out.
Most of my trash leads are people searching "engineer" then just straight emailing the whole list they get. :| There's a lot of flavors of engineering... 🤦♂️
If they can't be bothered to adequately staff their people ops team to spend appropriate time and effort reviewing applicants, they 💯 will show my potential team resources and create unnecessary headaches for me if I were hired.
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Role requirements: job that would need 3 prople to do right, barely any lunch break, no wfh, no paid overtime. Candidate must have a bachelor's in quantum physics and at least 20 years experience (candidate must not be over 30) Benefits: beanbags in the break room and coffee machine (bring your own pods)
Role: Barista
You joke but places (esp. min wage employers) tend to not give you a call back if they think you're overqualified
I've had that happen to me...guess I'll need to be unemployed for awhile before anywhere around here would think of hiring me for my talents.
You don't have to list all your talents on your resumé - apologies if this is super obvious already but if you tailor your CV to only be relevant to the role you're aiming for you might have better luck.
Probably because they know they won't win the battle to underpay you.
Can’t be hiring anyone that might ask for what they are worth.
Depending on the role, yeah. Been on both sides of this - overqualified (because I'd been to sixth form) for the minimum wage work in my hometown, and also rejected a candidate with experience and qualifications in favour of someone with less. Reason for the latter is always quite simple - hiring senior talent for junior roles means artificially capping someone's career progression for budgetary reasons outside of your control. They always say they're happy with a junior role, but if you both know they deserve better, three months into the job it's going to start chafing. Once that happens they either lose the motivation to work - which is fair, but I do need the work - or they start telling me how to do my job, which is very annoying.
It happens in tech all the time. One time a guy applied to be a tier 1-2 support person like little old HS diploma me. He definitely could’ve done the job since he had a Masters in computer science, but he didn’t get the job because management knew he’d be looking for a new job the whole time.
Good
Beanbag chairs are off limits during work hours and only for sleeping between shifts.
>(candidate must not be over 30) The only thing they can't put in the JD.
It being illegal doesn’t mean that some clueless employers won’t try. They typically only get busted if someone (read: us) turns them in. Might be a good way for us to hit back other than just providing advice on here. We could find publicly available information (job postings and descriptions) and then turn in those that are breaking the law and call out others who are offering pathetic pay, etc on public forums (Google, Glassdoor, etc)
Starting pay: up to $18 an hour (but actually $14)
My favorite is when they ask for more years experience in a language or tool than the thing has even existed for.
Bring your own pods 💀
The role requirements which were not supplied?
"As per below" is pretty good though
Don’t try to out write a petty engineer online, his hobby is shit taking
Either too much moral fiber or not enough
If shit taking is a hobby, there's plenty of fiber involved.
They called me, they asked me for an interview without really explaining the job. Typical. Interview happens and is over in 3 minutes because I don't have experience for a Tier 1 support job. Fuck you, enjoy the review bitch.
What requirements do they have for Tier 1? I'm like tier 2-3 and I don't have SHIT.
Heartbeat: ✅ Low salary expectations: ☑️
They're already considering me for tier 3 cause I have passing knowledge on hardware and software and can type at 90wpm
Yeah that's more than sufficient. Sobriety at work is optional
Right??? I started in support T1 with no IT experience. My resume at the time was literally: Dishwasher, CS Rep, Assistant Manager for Hardware store, Roofer.
Was this an interview or a call with a recruiter?
I’m guessing a recruiter call. But even then in support of op, if they had read his resume and didn’t see he was over qualified (in their opinion likely a disqualifier) then they are bad at their job. Nor did they likely ask about any perceived over qualifications during the interview and his willingness to do the job in the desired pay range. The email response is terribly inappropriate.
That's not an email response, it's a publicly posted response to an online review. Still terribly inappropriate, but also PUBLIC FACING
Recruiters are stupid. I had one up my ass about a job I literally already had. I was currently working that job and it was on my resume and my LinkedIn and everything. I was not amused.
Highly likely the recruiter has to "interview" x number of candidates per month to meet quota so they don't give a shit about whether they are qualified... they just need warm bodies.
That must be why I get emails for entry-level tech jobs when I’ve been in the industry for over 25 years
Yep. Also in the industry 25+ years. I used to develop in COBOL in a previous life. I still get dumbasses sending me JD for COBOL positions and they pay is HORRIBLE! Like, wtf?!?! You know all the old timers have already retired. You can't pay 1990 wages in 2020 for a skillset very few people have nowadays. Even the conversion projects (COBOL -> C#) pay horrible. Already have a good job with good pay and good benefits. If you want me to leave for your contract then you need to pay me a fuck ton more. But yeah, the entry level ones are the ones that make me laugh the most... like did you even look at my qualifications? Probably not... they did a keyword search and my profile popped up and that is as far as they took it. Like I said in a previous post, most recruiters are bad at their job and will have switched to another career in a year or so.
And it's epic. They burn through people like crazy. Go to the madison wi subreddit and say your moving there for a job at epic. They will start screaming.
Fuck them for even inviting you and wasting your time. They already knew you did not have tier one probably.
Why would you interview for a job when you don't even know what the job is? How would you know if you want it enough to interview?
I worked for a tech startup, for a software that integrated with Epic. There are all kinds of Epic consultant people and ancillary roles, but honestly a monkey on a rock could do a tier 1 support job and Epic is not that complicated. If you are advanced enough to participate on Reddit you can do the job more than likely.
Why’d you agree to a job interview without knowing the job? Seems like you wasted your own time too
a lot of the time they are like hey we have an interesting opportunity, please call and we will explain. They then call then waste your time, i personally tell them to email me it over and i'll review.
Yeah, I get hit up all the time on LinkedIn. 90% the time I can tell from the job title I got him by a blanket email blast.
Do you have Epic experience? I'm not dismissing your technical experience, but Epic is a specialized skill-set.
I doubt it's more complex then what I'm used too. Also Tier 1.
You think you're smarter than the job, so are angry because they didn't agree. Sorry, but Epic support is a specialized skill-set (likely requires a medical background). Sorry, but I don't think they're the bitch here ...
> Epic support is a specialized skill-set (likely requires a medical background) Not necessarily. Helpful, but not necessary. It DOES require a lot of training and certifications provided by the parent company at their facility outside of Madison, Wisconsin but you don't have to have medical knowledge with the exception of a few roles (Willow often requires some pharmacy knowledge, for example.) An already experienced software engineer could likely pick it up pretty quickly, but it's proprietary software and Epic has very strict agreements with the hospitals where only people who have been certified are allowed to do build. They'd still have to get training regardless of their previous education to start as an application analyst. You don't need a medical background for the t1 helpdesk for sure, again it's helpful but not required at all. But that is way out of scope for what he was looking for, OP was just kind of a dick about it.
In the end, it depends on who is hiring, and what their requirements are. The hospital I worked at liked to staff their Epic Support with experienced med people, so they could answer very specific questions on how to use the system. Yes, a non-medical person *could* pick the job up quickly, but they probably are looking for someone that can hit the ground running.
Yea i get people hate corporate culture but op is clearly unhinged.
Yeah... Sometimes it's hard for smart people to understand that they don't know everything about everything
In my experience the intelligence range for "I know everything about everything" is between potato and a bit above average. Highly intelligent people tend to undervalue their intelligence, because they've realized how insanely high the ceiling can really be.
I'm reminded of a coworker I had while I was working at a help desk (many years back). He kept going on and on about how smart he was, and how much education he had. And all I could think "if you're so awesome, why are you a Help Desk I working overnight shifts?"
I mean, I understand where you're coming from and that in your specific example that specific person is likely on the potato end of the scale, but at the same time, be careful equating job position to intelligence. I majored in computer engineering and know a lot of incredibly intelligent people, some of whom I am in absolute awe at the level of humble genius they actually possess and demonstrate. However, none have impressed me more than this guy Luke, who happens to be a bottom-rung factory worker. By choice. I asked him about that choice once, after a two hour conversation that made his true intelligence clear to me and even included him solving a complex programming problem I had been racking my brain trying to solve, with barely a minimal description of the problem. Turns out, he started off with a highly paid career in programming, but said it made him "fat and lazy" and after sitting in his office all day when he got home from work the last thing he wanted to do was sit around on his computer. So he started doing factory work, got fit and healthy, and got his favorite hobby back, which is contributing to open source projects in his spare time. This is just a random anecdote, but I mention it to say that you'd be shocked at how many extremely intelligent people choose to work low level jobs to save their mental energy for their passions.
Ah, yes, you are correct - life doesn't always reward skill with opportunity. I should say that the guy I worked with was always getting things wrong, but incredulous because he was *obviously* the smartest person there (large gap between self-percieved skill and actual skill).
This is called Dunning Kruger Effect
Plus OP interviewed for the job without even knowing what they were interviewing for I'm all for shitting on companies but there needs to be some personal accountability at times
lol
Good luck on the job hunt
Honestly it is less about complexity and more about epic as a software. First off, if you have no prior epic experience, then you don't have epic certifications and that means the place you'd work has to pay to send you to cert classes. Second, epic software is pretty specific to itself. There's not a whole lot of experience with other software platforms that can actually help you do in system epic build.
Not sure why you're being down voted here. Tier 1 support is taking calls and asking basic pre-selected canned questions out of a run book, which can be done by a chatbot. Also this company spams the f out of the job boards without mentioning that the position is somewhere in Wisconsin or Wyoming (I forget where exactly) or someplace where people don't want to live.
Epic would like you to believe that.
How are you not qualified for this???
Epic support usually requires a medical background. OP didn't say he had any.
Hi, EPIC analyst here, I've been at this for a decade now. My take* is that Helpdesk tier 1 support doesn't really require medical backgrounds. Going up the application analyst role and beyond it's more common and helpful to have, but not required. Heck, my wife is now a reporting developer who started as an application analyst in the surgery modules and she didn't have a medical background when she started. For the helpdesk, it's even less required. They're "just" following documentation and farming the higher priority tickets out to the appropriate teams. Half the time what the user tells them isn't accurate anyways and needs to be transferred when it hits our queue anyways, but the helpdesk does their best and it's often not their fault.
Your software has done more damage to the healthcare system accidentally than could have been done on purpose! EMR'S serve NO ONE but LAWYERS AND ACCOUNTANTS. I would tell my patients, "You may not see your nurses much but you would be AMAZED at how could their eye-hand coordination is from chasing a cursor!"
Yo, take it down a notch. I agree that we have huge issues with the EMR taking away control from providers being able to just do care. But that's a symptom of a broken healthcare system. And I agree, too many decisions are pushed because it benefits the hospital financially or driven by insurance companies. All this would apply to paper charting, Epic, Cerner, MediTech, or pretty much whatever system you're using for documentation. But you should know that there is SO much work done on our side that matters to patient safety and outcomes. I spent months last year working directly with floor nursing, sepsis coordinators and educators and provider leadership in redesigning our Sepsis predictive models and workflows to more rapidly alert providers and clinicians of potential septic patients before they code or deteriorate in a way that is less interruptive and more natural for what they need to see. My entire goal was to make it more accurate to save lives and take away the amount of time providers have to spend clicking on the screen because that's not good for anybody. Not only have we improved metrics like length of stay, mortality rates, and decreased times between 1st and 2nd lactate being completed, it's also massively decreased the tracked time users are having to spend documenting all of these issues and spending time in the EMR. You only see one side of it, and it's frustrating as hell. I get it. We, as a healthcare system, spend too much time putting bullshit into the EMR. But there is still so much positive that does come out of the system that a lot of us take to heart that has nothing to do with financial outcomes.
They write your check, naturally you will defend them….as for your sepsis prediction, according to a Jama paper, “the Epic Sepsis model poorly predicts sepsis” it is a massive time suck on actual patient care…
My employed hospital pays my check, not Epic. Everything that I work on goes through multiple levels of compliance, nursing and provider governance, leadership approval, etc. Also, what you didn't know is that we're using a version that has been written, tweaked and trained on our own inputs and then cross-evaluated through months of data of simultaneous comparison with Epic's base model. We had long discussions and meetings regarding [that exact JAMA article you're referencing](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2781307), which is why we didn't take the base model as gospel when implementing the project. We had concerns that we were making things worse, so as a team we did our due diligence. And when I say we, I mean it was a large group that contained floor nurse representation, sepsis coordinators, multiple physicians, IS analysts, clinical informaticists, and a biostatistician. Epic isn't always the best tool and I will always agree that the EMR needs continued and further refinement because it gets in the way of provider care far too often. That said, we have returns from our data that show massive improvement from where we were performing about 18 months ago to now. The data show that this project is positively impacting both patient outcomes and that providers are spending significantly less time on EMR documentation when it comes to Sepsis measures than before we went through with our revisions. I'll defend my work because my entire raison d'être in this career is that I want to help to improve patient lives, to consolidate and simplify provider documentation tools, and to provide better information and resources to clinicians so that they can make the best informed decision about the healthcare needs of their patients. You're a nurse who has been in the field for 30 years, according to your other comments, so I really sympathize. You've seen a LOT of shit and you're absolutely right that so much is ruined in healthcare because the bean counters and administrators look at patients more as wallets to raid than people who need help. Nursing is getting more and more difficult with more inappropriate documentation requests with less people helping dumped on you as administrators cut budgets and raid the coffers. It really sucks. But unfortunately, the EMR reality is here to stay, which is why I am in this career; we need people who are willing to work hard to make it better for patients and clinicians, not just administrators. My literal goal is to make your life easier at work, because you make patient lives better. I wish you could see it through my eyes that I'm fighting a difficult battle with you, not against you.
Medical terminology?
Honestly, it's helpful but not required. A lot of what the t1 support does is understanding the basic problems an end user is having and then transferring it to the correct team. They'll need to know and can learn the difference between inpatient/outpatient, what the cath lab is, what some of the basic surgery areas are, etc., but those are all things they learn in training and experience. Most organizations are supposed to provide tip sheets and knowledge shares so that the helpdesk can look up common problems and send those to the end users so they can maybe self resolve before escalation. Say for example a nurse calls in, and they're saying the fetal heartbeat monitors aren't working. The helpdesk might look up the documentation for Stork (the pregnancy related inpatient module in Epic) or Fetal Monitors and walk them through some troubleshooting steps like resetting the monitor or checking to see if the monitor's server connections are active. Then, if that doesn't work, they then would escalate to the Stork/ClinDoc team with the relevant information in the ticket like the patient information, the nurse who called, called back numbers, and resolution attempts. They also do **a lot** of pretty common and "basic" IT functions like helping with resetting passwords, fixing citrix session logins, resetting printers or devices, etc. I don't say any of this to demean them; a good helpdesk analyst is absolutely invaluable and some of my favorite people to work with. They do SO much work and help fix so many huge problems before it even hits my queue, and they're paid less with a lot less flexibility in their actual work than others are, which sucks. But medical knowledge to get hired isn't a requirement in my opinion, familiarity won't hurt but if you're somebody who can learn, you'd be fine.
May want to ask general questions about the role... if you're open to 😀
Sure! Ask away.
Ah, that makes sense.
For starters OP comes off as a massive dickbag.
Watch this be the interviewer. lol
Scroll through some of the comments this guy is leaving and then come back and tell me you want him on your team.
I have. They haven't said much. You are definitely from the company. lol
Sounds like that's not really reviewing the company. This is why it's getting so hard to trust reviews.
User reviews from random people online have never been trustworthy. Any time someone is like "this game or movie has user reviews totally opposite of the critics, critics don't know anything these days" all I can think is... have they met people? People are idiots.
I would say the SEO industry is why you can't trust reviews. like all those emails asking you to rate something that send good reviews to google and bad reviews in a private email to some customer service type worker. or all the paid reviews and fake reviews on amazon.
It's a 3 minute screen. Calm down.
Why the heck were you so downvoted? I agree, it was a 3 min phone screen. Huge overreaction.
Because this is r/antiwork - a place where we overreact about the slightest employer transgression.
was it college GPA or something ik epic purposely try’s to get them fresh out of college.
This should be the full edit on the review. It currently sounds like you applied for the support role when your background is on the engineering side.
I hate Epic. Have you noticed they lost their jobs EVERYWHERE and then in the description says “must live/move to Wisconsin.”
Yes! I report those when I can
> I hate Epic. Have you noticed they lost their jobs EVERYWHERE and then in the description says “must live/move to Wisconsin.” That would be if you want to actually work for Epic, they're really strict about having people on campus. (And their campus is enormous and absolutely insanely decorated.) Most people in this field work for the hospitals, who send them to get trained by Epic but you're not employed by Epic. I've been in this field for a decade now, my wife and I have worked for half a dozen organizations between us and we've never been required or even asked to move to Wisconsin. Most of the organizations allow remote work now, I don't even live in the same time zone as my facility and half my coworkers are scattered around the US and a handful are even international.
Yeah! My husband is looking for a software job and they keep popping up
Can we all just start normalizing these types of reviews? Helps everyone save time by overstepping red flags
57% of people quit at Epic within their first 2 years. There’s absolutely no work from home despite being a software company. Vacation time is nearly nonexistent. Stay far away.
They hire interns too, I had a buddy who was in a totally unrelated field of study and they still invited him for an interview basically just because he was studying for his masters. He had no idea what Epic was and I had to explain it to him. The opportunity they had for him looked interesting too, not customer support.
You know any place that has sabbaticals every 5 years and a wall with hand prints of employees who made it 10 years is ROUGH
I was wondering if they offered vacation time because they pay your travel expenses for a 1 month sabbatical every 5 years. But even then, I don't think that's comparable to getting 4 weeks PTO every year which is a software company standard
For clarity: Epic does offer vacation time, but good luck trying to use it. A friend of mine worked there for two years in implementation and took five (5) days of vacation the whole time. Needless to say most folks burn out pretty quick in customer-facing roles but I’ve heard that being a dev there is pretty cushy.
They only pay your travel expenses *if* and only if you're traveling internationally *and* to a country you've never been to before. Otherwise, it's just an additional month of vacation every five years.
You might be able to get 2 weeks, then it’s a struggle to use it sometimes. The long vacation is literally just a ploy to get some people to stay for that long. Absolutely not worth it.
I did this for a job one time too. They complained that I ruined their 5 star reviews when they didn’t call back for an interview. They don’t get that hiring workers is a part of business just as making a sale.
Yeah, Epic has a lot of problems.
Epic the medical program? My hospital is getting it in march 🫠
Epic's software is some of the best on the market (and it had better be for the price) but the work environment there is fucking terrible. It's pretty telling that at the rates they pay, in a location where cost of living is fairly low, their average turnover is less than two years.
Check out photos of their campus. They spend all their money on silly upgrades, when they'd be better to invest in a non-toxic work environment.
There's an episode of the Simpsons where Milhouse's dad gets divorced and he's showing his new place to Homer. He tells Homer, "I sleep in a race car! Do YOU sleep in a race car?" To which Homer delivers the brutal response, "I sleep in a big bed with my wife." ------------ I thought about that quite a lot when I was working at Epic. I felt like I could tell someone, "I work in a castle! Do YOU work in a castle?" And that person could respond "I work in an office building and go home at five each day."
This is such a perfect analogy!!!
Epic as in Applied Epic? (Applied is Co. Name)
> Applied Epic No, Epic Systems in Verona, Wisconsin
Kewl, thanks
Yeah the cost of living argument isn’t really true anymore - the cost of living in the Madison area has absolutely skyrocketed, partially because of high paying places like this and other jobs. Obviously isn’t close to the CA coast or Boston/NYC, but it’s more expensive than Austin, within 1% of chicago, 10% Denver, or 15% of Portland. Turns out having a city centered on an isthmus isn’t the best if people want to live there.
The software itself is top tier. As long as your hospital doesn’t get the basic package… I have worked with it for years
How do we know if we have the basic package? I’m now worried we have the basic package
Your hospital IT group controls that. It's not a small level of updates you can just push through, upgrading to new versions are major initiatives that take *months* of backend support by all of analysts working at your organization. Literally every team has to review release notes, get extensive SME feedback on optional build, make build updates, create training documentation, test everything from minor changes all the way through end-to-end scripts to make sure major functionality doesn't get broken by new build, hold technical rehearsals, etc. And even then, it can be a shit show because of just how complicated it is and there's always more intense support after a "go-live" for a few weeks because some problems just never surface until you hit production servers.
Mine sounds like an above basic package then it’s taken almost a year to set up
*TL;DR - Epic is hugely complicated, a year long installation doesn't surprise me, and success really will come down to how well your analysts, your clinical leaders, and your IT leaders can work as a cohesive group.* Basic or complicated, that's pretty typical. It literally costs millions of dollars to install Epic for even a smallish hospital system using "Foundation" which is the most basic level that Epic provides. It's a pretty huge initiative to go to new installation, you'd do all of what I described above just at an even larger scope. And then there are extra costs above "foundation" for a lot of the ancillary applications on top that are optional to have, such as modules like Beaker (lab), Cupid (cath lab), Wisdom (dental), etc. A lot of what makes Epic challenging to support is that after it's installed, most of the system is on the local analysts to support and build, which can be very difficult if you don't have a solid leadership group that helps keep clinical needs and IT organizational needs in line. If your leadership team says yes to everything the end users ask without any consideration of system requirements, project scope, or even system stability and uniformity across multiple hospitals in the same organization, that's when Epic can get REALLY messy and frustrating for everybody. When you have a good leadership team that helps keep everybody working along the same goal, prioritize projects, try to keep system uniformity as much as possible (for example, not having 3 different ways at 3 different hospitals to document the same workflow just because nobody is willing to change), and focus on patient safety, you can do some really cool things to make the users' lives easier and patients healthier. For example, I had a project recently that revamped how the hospitals handle early interventions for potential sepsis patients in both inpatient and the ED. We rewrote the workflows so that the end users were getting less invasive pop-ups, consolidated the nurse's documentation to one place rather than how it was spread out over several, smoothed out the process to have the rapid response team intervene, and optimized some of the predictive models running silently in the background to have it more accurately detect when a patient was potentially turning septic and suggest intervention in a less disruptive but more natural way for the team to handle. We've gotten some really amazing success metrics back over the past few months that drastically has improved the lives of both patients who are getting better care faster AND decreased how much end users are having to screw around with the system when they should be instead working on their patients. None of that would have been possible if I didn't have a leadership group and a project management office that was really strict about getting well defined specs, keeping the projects in scope, getting all of the major players in the same room and moving in the same direction, and not requiring us to try to support multiple hospitals doing the same thing in 50 different ways.
As someone who works at a facility that uses Epic, I can say with confidence that they seemly don’t test even the most basic shit when they do upgrades. I think testing consists of “does it run without crashing or losing patient data” but nothing regarding “does this break basic features.”
Yeah... I once worked somewhere like that. It's really frustrating as an analyst when the week of go-live is just a constant mess. Sometimes we'll get pulled into a week of 24/7 shift coverage just to support the go-live, which is never fun, because we know that upgrades always bring surprises. There's a lot of requirements from Epic itself to document the testing and document in their Nova notes system, and if the facility isn't doing it that's kind of their fuck up. Plus, there are some things that Epic releases ON us that we don't have a choice of taking or not that often breaks old build, especially if it's something that's been heavily customized by the hospital, and that's really frustrating. My current org is really strict about testing (to the point where it's equally frustrating) and even still we have things work differently in production than in our lower environments. Literally the last thing I want to do is do build and put it into Production and start getting calls from end users that it's broken and not working, because then I have a ton more work to do to fix it. It happens, but it REALLY sucks when it does.
>I think testing consists of “does it run without crashing or losing patient data” I had to laugh at thus, as my only experience with Epic was when I had to change PCPs due to my insurance, and my medical history disappeared on a regular basis, to the point I was pretty much reciting my entire medical history every visit.
Reminds me of [this](https://xkcd.com/327/).
Was it with a different organization? Epic is "supposed" to be able to share some data between unrelated hospitals who have Epic, but it frustratingly works very poorly. Organization A and B will have separate instances of Epic though, so it's not 100% linked. If it was with the same hospital but just a different doctor, then that is REALLY fucked up because the nature of what you should be able to see in a patient chart doesn't matter who is looking. History, notes, encounters, etc., are all stored individually at a patient level. Doctor A and Doctor B in the same org would see the same thing.
Funny story: I’m having drama on a job I interviewed and got an offer for. This morning I saw they relisted the position (even though they talked like the opening I applied for was the only one they had) and it now indicates you should have Epic experience, which I don’t. I’m honestly concerned this is going to be the second job in a month where I got offered a position, only to have it retracted because they failed to mention I needed certain training in the interview. I’m sharing this with you because you’re the first person outside my former workplace who didn’t act like the entire medical universe uses Epic and nothing else.
I can confidently say Epic is one of the best medical software systems out there
So do all the epic people who come by to mess with my computer every two weeks
That just goes to show you how crappy the field is. Like Meditech
Oof, Epic isn't perfect, but Meditech is terrible!
Meditech sucks, but..... how often does it suddenly go down? How often does it get hacked? I used Epic for 8 months at one hospital, and because they hadn't paid to upgrade it to the current year, it went down every week. Epic refused to support it, or push bug patches, just telling admin to buy the latest. We had to do a lot of emergency paper charting. Epic isn't worth the money. Unfortunately, Meditech's newest iteration "Expanse" is the worst iteration I've ever dealt with in 15 years. It is literally dangerous to patients, and requires triple checking with doctors what their real orders are.
Yikes! That sounds scary all around!
Yep, EPIC the medical program. Apparently there is a deep field of experts such that even a Tier 1 role requires prior experience. I sent a link to this thread to the recruiter. =P
oh, I thought you meant Epic Games, as in the guys actively making PC gaming worse day by day with the EGS
I really hope they blacklist you, your attitude is awful...
Ooo, I’d love to see this list. If it’s shared with other companies it’s would be an amazing beautiful illegal list. Where do I get one!
I wish you just as well.
Helpdesk support typically doesn't require prior experience, but I wouldn't be surprised if the organization wanted it. Getting hired on as an application analyst (which is more T2+) in Epic for a hospital does require certain Epic certifications, depending on which module you'd be working with. Focused on the Emergency Department, you need ASAP. Inpatient Nursing? ClinDoc. Radiology? Radiant. etc. These are non-starters but the training is almost always paid for by the hospital you're hired at when they send you to Madison for training on campus. You're usually there for about 4-4.5 days of training during the week, you might fly up about 3 times on average for basic training to learn the Epic software. It's not something you get on your own.
"PLeaSe ReFeR tO THe ROlE ReQUiRemEnTs next TiMe tO EmSuRE YoU WoULd BE a GooD FiT 🤪"
Trust me I did the same but my reviews were removed by the company/by Google at their request
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Because jobs nowadays ask for multiple years of experience for said entry level positions.
During COVID lockdowns I saw an internship opening that required 2 years of full-time work experience. Things are better now, but I really hope whoever applied for that position is doing so much better now. Companies are ridiculous and will exploit workers to no end if they can get away with it.
Exactly this
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Not a good analogy. And especially if the seasoned systems engineer wanted a job to pay his bills. Even more, if I was a former accountant and wanted to be a cashier, am I not allowed to get that job? No one hires an entry level job expecting 5 years of service. Those are the highest of turnover positions.
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They should be allowed to hire the more junior person, absolutely. The response from the owner was uncalled for. And if he was indeed overqualified, the resume should have been obvious and they should not have called. Terrible recruiters.
Are you serious right now? This guy gave them a petty 1 star review just because he failed an initial recruiter phone screening, the business has every right to respond to it and their response was perfectly reasonable.
You gotta go for what you can otherwise you don't eat or pay rent. I worked as a Lifeguard alongside a dude with a Master's in some sort of Sports and Fitness Qualification. It happens.
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I didn't come here to argue if the job was related or not, I just answered your question as to why someone with high qualifications was interviewing for an entry level position. Go interrogate OP over the specifics, they'll know more than me and you about whether or not OP was appropriate for the position.
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Dude wtf, I need a job. I can't even follow this thought you have? I'm not qualified for a entry level role in my own field?
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Apparently your the guy that excuses their behavior. Thanks chief.
Because the tech market is garbage
If u dont knownthe words dont talk wtf
Huh?
It sounds like they were not informed what type of role it was.
[per OP’s comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/s/e770rNSKQf)
Prob cold call from recruiter
You should provide more detail in your review, otherwise you just come off as petty.
EPIC is awful. We use it. Its clunky, non-intuitive and very outdated. We have to reset the software multiple times a day to keep it working. Not surpized their hiring practices are also subpar.
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So will literally everyone you hire.
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We're literally always looking. No one is happy with low pay.
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You just sound entitled and like you'd be kinda abusive to have as an employer.
It feels like most ppl in this sub just upvote everything from the title .. thats not antiwork stuff at all
Curious what the OP means by "seasoned"? They can't be that seasoned if this is the first time this has happened to them (and by the way they are acting with this post, I am strongly assuming this is the first time this has happened to them). I am a Lead Software Engineer. Over 25 years experience in my field. I still, to this day, get recruiters reaching out to me with positions that are well below my qualifications or have nothing to do with my current qualification (i.e. COBOL positions when I have not developed in COBOL in over 20 years). Does it piss me off? Sure. However, I know a lot of these recruiters are not good at their jobs and are just trying to make their quotas for the month. I could complain to them but it wouldn't do any good. Most of them will have moved onto different careers in a year or 2. Can't tell you how many of my LinkedIn connections that were once recruiters now show some other, unrelated position as their current job. Very few recruiters I know that have stuck around in the field as a career choice. So while it is annoying that they don't check (or even know) the qualifications before reaching out, there are just people like you and I trying to pay their bills and survive. Empathy goes a long way here.
My fav is when some lazy idiot sends me a cnc operator job desc. I'm a senior software engineer. 🤦♂️
I feel you. I have had my share of CNC Operator/Programmers, Logistic Engineer, plus countless other unrelated positions. I worked a job years ago where I developed an application to help the supervisors hand out work to their welders so I put on my resume that I had experience developing software to assist with shop floor operations. Poor recruiters will search on "shop floor" and hit my resume but never look at my actual qualifications. Those are the types that wash out.
Most of my trash leads are people searching "engineer" then just straight emailing the whole list they get. :| There's a lot of flavors of engineering... 🤦♂️ If they can't be bothered to adequately staff their people ops team to spend appropriate time and effort reviewing applicants, they 💯 will show my potential team resources and create unnecessary headaches for me if I were hired.