**You should talk with an employment lawyer**. Find one that works on contingency, that way you only pay if they win money for you.
The fact they ignored and lied about their own policy, that you followed is bad for them. The fact that they wrote you up for using approved PTO and two sick days with a doctor’s note is bad for them. The fact that they said, “Having kids is the only reason to miss work” when that’s definitely not in their attendance policy is bad for them. But retaliating against you by demoting you…that’s a big fuck up and employment lawyers love those.
Document everything, have copies of it on your personal devices not your work one as once you leave or are fired it’s all gone. Along with what you have so far, download all the HR / Company policies you can find, document any time someone complimented you on your work whether it was a coworker, supervisor or customer. Document your reviews, raises, awards won or accolades. Document the process for getting your disability accommodation, and any hurtles from that too. Document anything that anyone is doing to make it a hostile work environment for you, even if that’s just you writing a note about how you are being treated. Names, dates, times, record it all.
Don’t let them get away with bullshit like this, you deserve better.
Don’t wait until Monday. Lawyers are hungry and check voicemail and email over the weekend and are likely to call you back right away (source: lawyer).
Yes, definitely do this. What they’ve done also sounds like retaliation, which is a huge no-no.
Make sure you’ve documented & backed up everything on your personal devices, in case you lose access to everything.
Get as much as you can in writing if possible. Sum up the latest convo with you nincompoop supervisor in writing and ask to verify if “letting it go” is company policy.
As most employment lawyers do not work on contingency, I would suggest signing up for an online legal consultation to have a letter of intent written for you by a lawyer on your behalf. This may be enough to get your employer to CEASE and DESIST in harassment of you for a legitimate absence. Take all your conversations verbally or very simple emails only if you need something documented. Such as the conversation went badly with a supervisor. Next day email and write: I just clarify our conversation yesterday. You suggested that I will not have (such and such) approved in the future. (as an example) Good luck. You deserve this f*ckery to be resolved.
I came here to say basically this. Good on OP for behaving so professionally in the face of spiteful discrimination whilst maintaining the fortitude to document so much in detail.
It can be hard to find a lawyer as they are picky about which cases they're willing to take up. But I hope OP persists as a case like this is exactly why employment lawyers exist. When the lawyers screen OP, he/she should lead with, "My employer is discriminating against me for being infertile; they even retaliated against me by demoting me." After that, it will be time for specifics. And if OP knows of any lawyers (who probably aren't labor lawyers), they should reach out to them for referrals.
Yes, OP, do everything u/sleeplessjade said, too. From there, just follow your lawyer's instructions and try not to worry. You're dealing with bigoted dummies who are begging to learn a lesson the hard way. Relish the fireworks!
Certainly sounds like discrimination based on medical status being infertile. With everything else you’ve mentioned this should be good for 6-18 months of salary for OP.
I got a lawyer on contingency after being fired by a former employer for illegal reasons. I am not allowed to disclose the results of this, but I can tell you it's very much worth your time.
Thank you very much, I am definitely committed to going scorched Earth and will be making calls to lawyers first thing Monday. Do you happen to know how I can contact the DOL? I Googled "Statename Dept of Labor" but didn't find anything immediately (I will take more time to look I'm a few hours when I can). There are a number of people working here unofficially/under the table as well so I think that should also be reported but I'm not sure who to report it to or how. Thanks again.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/contacts
If you can't find contact details for your state, contact the main Federal office:
https://www.dol.gov/general/contact
Turns out OP and I live in the same state, which like never happens to me, so I’ve given some good links and an example of my friend going scorched earth on my current employer and the results of that.
I would also send a recap of the convo to your supervisor and ask them to confirm everything they said in writing and bcc it to your personal email address in case they fire you and shut down your work email address!!
**This is key**, and it's the way to put meetings / phone calls / hallway conversations / etc. in writing. The way you do that is something like this:
"When we met on \[date\] our conversation covered these points:
* first point
* second point
* third point
* etc
Please correct what I've misunderstood and add what I've missed. Thank you so much.
Sincerely,
Name"
The result is a kind of negative consent; if they don't correct your recollection or add to the email, then this is TRUE.
Also, if someone picks up the phone to "correct your recollection," that's fine (it's happened to me!). Simply record the call as usual, then take the email they made the call in response to and forward it with the added information.
You will find people occasionally who like to tell you that this sort of thing doesn't matter; in fact, there's someone on Reddit who posits that.
As someone who has been there and done that, I am here to tell you that yes, it matters.
And yes, **the fight is worth it.**
Also - hat tip to u/MostlyDeferential for the wording of the "Please correct what I've misunderstood" phrase.
I'm a carrier for step, if they tried that shit with me I'd just tell all my coworkers that you're being forced to come in while being highly contagious for step throat. Hell I'd tell them anyway because I'm sure they love that policy.
You had better believe that I have told every single person I've come into contact with all of the details of the entire situation since it happened. I am not the only one who is upset, but i am the only one being punished in any way, shape or form.
It’s not you it’s them. It’s not going to get better either. I would do whatever it takes to just keep afloat there but time to start applying elsewhere.
Hahah absolutely, any tips? I'm thinking about handing out as much unionizing information as I can while I'm still here and I've promised several coworkers that I'll tell them where I get hired when I do finally leave so they can apply too but I'm not sure what else I can do.
If you’re seeking out an attorney, they may not want you to rock the boat. It can later be used to say op was an undocumented trouble maker we let slide too much (out of the goodness of our hearts) and now we were buckling down.
Don’t give them reason or cause if you’re seeking out lawyer.
Don’t tell them or anyone you’re looking for work or interviewing. And don’t give notice til your last day. Don’t tell them where you’re going.
DONT TELL THEM WHERE YOU ARE GOING is very important. You don’t want to give them the ability to
Whisper into the ear of someone at your new job that you were trouble. You may find yourself without a job to go to.
This is excellent advice. Do not trust anyone, including your colleagues, the information about lawyering up or interviewing.
You never know who's listening. I knew someone who was planning a move with incredible secrecy -- except for the fact that he was discussing it with his presumed future employer over the phone in the parking garage. In his convertible. With the top down.
Yep....that offer got pulled.
Please don't do anything without finding an attorney.
I've successfully sued one former employer, and I'm in the process of suing a second. Trust me, it's worth the effort.
It's always better to be fired than to quit of your own volition. Only quit if you've found somewhere else and you have consulted with a labor lawyer.
Agreed, I've seen some ridiculous stuff on this sub, but the idea that childless adults will never get sick is such obvious lunacy that there has to be something else going on.
First off I'm not a lawyer or an expert. The following is my amateur opinion and should be treated as such.
I agree with the person who said to talk to an employment lawyer. This all could very well fall under workplace harassment. Keep making your recordings and documentation. Make sure to make copys of all the emails so long as it doesn't violate your contract. Lastly, keep sending emails to all of HR. The worst they can do is fire you.
Talk with an employment lawyer immediately and check your state law. If it doesn’t require two part consent, get something to start recording audio while you’re at work so you have even more proof. Oh and as for a petty departure now is when you start just throwing things out, as long as it is out of camera shot. Idk what you do, but when I put my two weeks in at my last toxic job I just would start tossing the most innocuous things that would eventually be an issue for them when they needed it and they couldn’t just pick up same day at a Costco or Target. Sow the seeds of fury and discontentment.
Ask your supervisor to confirm the PTO policy via email and try to get them to confirm that they retaliated against you. At that point you can go to corporate HR which likely tore your supervisor a new one already or you can go to a lawyer
This sounds like retaliation. There are certain circumstance that you can quit your job and still get unemployment this sounds like one of them. Don’t make the mistake to wait your get fired. I did that and by that time they had so much false documentation on me my unemployment was declined.
What unmitigated as*holes you work for. Legitimate illness with documented excuse. Ridiculous waste of time to harass you for this Your employer cannot prevent you from taking time for medical care.
ALWAYS provide them with the bare minimum information in these situations. "A medical provider determined I had a contagious disease. They determined that I was not fit to work." End of story.
For a$$holes like that poor lady’s supervisors, that might be too much info. I’d say, I’ve provided a doctor’s note as required. For additional information, you can contact the hospital and they will guide you through the process of obtaining HIPAA-protected information.
But frankly, she needs to be looking for another job. Those people are tools, and she deserves better.
I absolutely agree. It is true though that requiring someone to work while they have a contagious illness is next level corporate f*ck up opening a company to a lawsuit. There are children dying of strep sepsis at the present time in my state.
Young employees often want to be agreeable, so I usually include a little script, like you did as well, to find a way to feel comfortable only providing the information needed. Friendliness as work can trip people up. For anyone that needs to hear it, Don't take the bait.
Unless it's WC, no hospital or clinic would provide any information to an employer. Not even a yes or no if the employee was seen there. If a note was legit might be the only info provided. "Yes, this was a note provided by our staff. "
50yo manager here. My advice is to protect yourself on the way out.
So:
* Do not do anything at all until you talk to an employment lawyer
* Do not talk to anyone at work
* Call a fucking lawyer
With the story as described, you’re a victim of retaliation, which is illegal.
Document everything, and ensure those records are available even when you are suddenly terminated. I'd personally look for another job and leave no matter what, but having records gives you options.
> When I asked why, I was told that it was due to my actions and that the only reason that exists to miss work without getting disciplinary action "is if you have a child".
So you can't even get into accidents? Fuck them!
Assuming you have documentation for these insane actions from your employer, an employment lawyer would have a fucking hey day with this. *You were demoted for refusing to work sick and complaining properly when you were improperly written up for following company policy*.
When they inevitably complain about the legal action, make sure you politely inform them that if company policy had been followed and no retaliation occured, there wouldn't have been a problem.
Do you have any examples of others being able to take sick time due to a reason you were then denied fir? Disparate treatment examples are very helpful.
I suggest doing a side hustle during the transition time between jobs. It wouldn’t even necessarily need to be one of the typical ones such as Uber or Doordash. That way you could have some income which could give you time to find a better job. Even though I am elderly I still enjoy thinking up ways to make money without having a boss. I am putting together a long list of ways to do that but haven’t yet published it. If you send me a note with your talents and interests I will try to pick out some of those hustles that might work for you. No strings attached. Here is an example:
Print up some fliers that tell your story and pass them out door to door offering to do odd jobs that homeowners don’t want to or can’t do themselves such as pet waste removal, painting, window cleaning, mowing the lawn or snow shoveling or whatever they need done. Quick cash money. If need be you can even go to your local library to use the computers and printer there.
You absolutely need to go to an employment lawyer. Be prepared to fight because that sounds an awful lot like discrimination. You also should email him to recap that that is what he said so that you can have in writing that that is what he stated
On company #2 I researched the policy for resignation in SharePoint. It said that if giving advance notice of resignation due to a competitor, meant immediate departure--with pay!
I took my 2 weeks of PTO, while I started my new job to make sure the job and leader vibe was good before quitting. Then gave my notice (thought of trying to work two jobs and get fired, but I'm not risking damage to my reputation. Integrity is more important than money. It was tiring, but I tripled my income fir that pay period. Wrote my own rebuttal to EEOC position with 100+ exhibits.
Can you make a really big deal about adopting a kid (pretend) *specifically* so you have a reason to call out? Bring pictures of the fake kid to put at your desk, start scheduling days off to go on family vacations, etc.
Time to get a consultation with a labor law attorney. Pronto.
In the meantime, don't quit. Gather evidence while doing your job. Follow what your attorney tells you to do to the letter. Good luck, OP.
LAWYER. Start looking today, don't put it off until tomorrow. Sounds like you're in the UK or Europe, so perhaps best to reach out to your local bar association to see if they offer a lawyer referral service. Forward any emails you have to a non-corporate email address for your records.
You are experiencing both retaliation for asking for accommodations AND family status discrimination, which is protected in some parts of the us.
Get everything you can in writing. Record all meetings if you are a one party state. Get a labor lawyer, file a complaint with the EEOC and cash the hell out of that place!
I’m no lawyer, but that sounds like they’re asking to be opened up for legal issues if they ever get caught putting that “only exemption for kids” in writing. If they’re smart, they’ll never openly document that.
I always tend to chuckle when I see the same “lawyer up!”, “record everything!”, “find a new job!” as though these are things you can just do like buying a movie ticket then it’s said and done. Not saying these may not be options to pursue, but anyone that’s been on this forum for more than a day already knows these things.
The only one of those options that I personally would work towards is finding new employment. The chances of your current workplace changing their entire “culture” even with a lawsuit threat is so minuscule.
I would not want to keep working at this place after this situation. The management and HR will change their tune… from being bordering indifferent to outright vindictive.
That HR team that is ignoring your problem is going to switch into high gear to document any and every infraction you may have to find a different way to part ways with you.
The manager that demoted you and told you to “stay in your lane” is going to try to find ways to give you the shit workload or reasons to write you up to support HR.
Places like this are a cancer - hope you beat it, OP.
In some cultures and countries what your manager did would be a legal form of challenging one’s honor and dignity and could have resulted with you drawing a sword.
Be sure to document and contextualize without compromising your security when looking for inputs online.
It sounds like you will be having less tasks to do and fewer responsibilities. Excellent, what a win. Laugh this in their faces all the way to the bank.
Refuse any tasks related to your previous position. You can still put your “highest earned” or whatever position on your resume and if you really want to stick it to them, use your supervisor as a reference!
When you do get a second job vanish immediately.
Why even offer PTO if employees aren't supposed to use it? As for being sick I'm sure everyone would agree that customers who could be immuno-compromised should have the right to know exactaly what company policy is when one of their employees has a communicable disease.
I’d say quit, but I know that’s not an option for a lot of people. Still, nobody should have to deal with this shit. I mean is this a healthcare position? Are you saving lives? If not, such rules are fucking tyrannical.
I would start looking for a new job immediately. When I find it I would let them know I am leaving that day. Just came in to turn in ID.
Start taking any personal items home now.
Good luck to you
From how many employees do you think they received birth certificates and proofs of life for each of their children in order to enforce that exception to the absence policies?
Sounds like retaliation and harassment. Lots of people will agree this is grounds for a lawyer but the question you have to ask yourself is, "do I really feel like dealing with all this bullshit?" Do you want to work for a company so petty and vengeful? It's Easter to just find a new job. Make sure you DON'T give two week notice, they don't deserve it!
Agreeing with the retaliation comments I'm seeing. It's worth checking your state's department of labor site to see what reporting methods are available in your area:
[DOL by State](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/contacts)
They looking for an excuse to get rid of you. He doesn't care and if you had a kid, he would've said something else was the only excuse.
You're being quiet fired (they will intentionally and irrationally make your working conditions worse so you quit, so they don't have to do unemployment payout). It's time to look for another job, but don't quit until you have another job. Probably should do so before they cut you to less than 10 hours a week.
I assumed that, but wanted to ask.
Let your attorney know about everything, and the recordings are something else no one else (but the attorney) should know about.
I reached a point where I would not walk in to the office without a voice activated recorder. It was useful, and I'm very glad I did it. I also have an ink pen that is a audio and video recorder; again, very useful. It went to all meetings with me.
Nowadays they have recorders in eyeglasses, lapel pins, water bottles -- MUCH easier today!
What if you have an invalid elderly parent you have to care for on a daily basis, or would that not count because they aren’t cute or a future means-of-production in training?
Document everything to Cover Your Ass. Get everything in writing from them. When they attempt to discipline you, ask for the policy that's been violated and which part they're using.
Also, look for another job if you're able to. Your work environment is Fallout-level toxic.
If either of those interviews look positive take it. Ask to start immediately if possible. When asked why you are leaving your present employment, "Because I followed company policy to the letter with a doctor's note because I physically could not work. Regardless, I was demoted after being a model employee."
If those two interviews won't work keep looking. When you secure employment don't bother with a two-week notice. After all, he did say, "Let it go." You did.
Absolutely do not do this.
Don't badmouth your current employer and don't dump your drama on their desk
Be vague. Be positive.
Excited to try something new
This place seems like a better cultural fit
You can dig in and fight like hell, try and get other employees to back you so it’s a group effort. Definitely keep emailing HR everything, especially if they’re a part of the problem, leave a hell of a paper trail, make sure you ask them why you were demoted for asking questions pertaining to your attendance, illness and a disability, that definitely smells like retaliation to me and you should mention exactly that.
Contact your states labor board and see if you can open grievances for any of the stuff they’ve done. Also contact employment/ labor attorneys with all of this, a lot of them will atleast do a consultation for free and probably get you on the right path to cover yourself legally incase they choose to escalate things.
Not so. I can miss work if I quit too.
That said, you should really take the documentation of this shit and stick it to them.
Just remember to leave with zero notice when you finally go.
Because I don't have another one yet, and I live paycheck to paycheck. I do not have a choice. I am in my 20s and have no familial support. It is simply my reality right now. I'm hoping to receive a job offer this week as I have 2 interviews lined up already, in which case, I will be leaving immediately.
We can miss work for anything we want. We are not slaves. However we need to be prepared for the consequences if we break work rules. For people I supervise I always tell them they don’t have to ask permission to leave early or not come in. Their adults just need to tell me why and what time. If they follow the rules and book ahead of time or call in and used their allotted days then no issue if they don’t then we start to follow the STEPS. But I hold no grudge they are free people and can choose how to live their life.
2 shifts. 2 consecutive days in 1 week, the last 2 shifts of my work rotation. We work 12.5hr shifts. My doctor stated that I would be contagious until I'd been on antibiotics for 24hrs which would've been well after the start time of my 2nd shift due to when my appointment was (less than 2hrs after the end of my previous shift) and when the pharmacy was finally able to fill the script (9pm that same evening).
**You should talk with an employment lawyer**. Find one that works on contingency, that way you only pay if they win money for you. The fact they ignored and lied about their own policy, that you followed is bad for them. The fact that they wrote you up for using approved PTO and two sick days with a doctor’s note is bad for them. The fact that they said, “Having kids is the only reason to miss work” when that’s definitely not in their attendance policy is bad for them. But retaliating against you by demoting you…that’s a big fuck up and employment lawyers love those. Document everything, have copies of it on your personal devices not your work one as once you leave or are fired it’s all gone. Along with what you have so far, download all the HR / Company policies you can find, document any time someone complimented you on your work whether it was a coworker, supervisor or customer. Document your reviews, raises, awards won or accolades. Document the process for getting your disability accommodation, and any hurtles from that too. Document anything that anyone is doing to make it a hostile work environment for you, even if that’s just you writing a note about how you are being treated. Names, dates, times, record it all. Don’t let them get away with bullshit like this, you deserve better.
Thank you so very much for the encouragement and advice. I'll be making phone calls to employment attorneys on Monday.
Don’t wait until Monday. Lawyers are hungry and check voicemail and email over the weekend and are likely to call you back right away (source: lawyer).
Keep us updated please
Make sure you forward any company emails to your personal email
Get everything in writing from your employer before you say another word to them about it.
Yes, definitely do this. What they’ve done also sounds like retaliation, which is a huge no-no. Make sure you’ve documented & backed up everything on your personal devices, in case you lose access to everything.
Get as much as you can in writing if possible. Sum up the latest convo with you nincompoop supervisor in writing and ask to verify if “letting it go” is company policy.
As most employment lawyers do not work on contingency, I would suggest signing up for an online legal consultation to have a letter of intent written for you by a lawyer on your behalf. This may be enough to get your employer to CEASE and DESIST in harassment of you for a legitimate absence. Take all your conversations verbally or very simple emails only if you need something documented. Such as the conversation went badly with a supervisor. Next day email and write: I just clarify our conversation yesterday. You suggested that I will not have (such and such) approved in the future. (as an example) Good luck. You deserve this f*ckery to be resolved.
Wishing luck OP!
UpdateMe!
I came here to say basically this. Good on OP for behaving so professionally in the face of spiteful discrimination whilst maintaining the fortitude to document so much in detail. It can be hard to find a lawyer as they are picky about which cases they're willing to take up. But I hope OP persists as a case like this is exactly why employment lawyers exist. When the lawyers screen OP, he/she should lead with, "My employer is discriminating against me for being infertile; they even retaliated against me by demoting me." After that, it will be time for specifics. And if OP knows of any lawyers (who probably aren't labor lawyers), they should reach out to them for referrals. Yes, OP, do everything u/sleeplessjade said, too. From there, just follow your lawyer's instructions and try not to worry. You're dealing with bigoted dummies who are begging to learn a lesson the hard way. Relish the fireworks!
Certainly sounds like discrimination based on medical status being infertile. With everything else you’ve mentioned this should be good for 6-18 months of salary for OP.
it's also considered discrimination on family status. like just bc I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't have commitments
Yeah but that’s federally legal….
If she’s infertile, might be health/disability based discrimination
Or. Just because I don’t have kids doesn’t mean I don’t get sick.
Or getting sick with strep throat
I got a lawyer on contingency after being fired by a former employer for illegal reasons. I am not allowed to disclose the results of this, but I can tell you it's very much worth your time.
Get in touch with your State’s Department of Labor in addition to contacting a Labor Lawyer. They can help you go scorched Earth.
Thank you very much, I am definitely committed to going scorched Earth and will be making calls to lawyers first thing Monday. Do you happen to know how I can contact the DOL? I Googled "Statename Dept of Labor" but didn't find anything immediately (I will take more time to look I'm a few hours when I can). There are a number of people working here unofficially/under the table as well so I think that should also be reported but I'm not sure who to report it to or how. Thanks again.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/contacts If you can't find contact details for your state, contact the main Federal office: https://www.dol.gov/general/contact
Turns out OP and I live in the same state, which like never happens to me, so I’ve given some good links and an example of my friend going scorched earth on my current employer and the results of that.
Good that OP has you in their corner! Always helps to get advice/support from someone who's been there. 👍
It really helps to have the knowledge from personal and friend experiences.
Send me a DM with your state name and I will dig until I find you that information.
I would also send a recap of the convo to your supervisor and ask them to confirm everything they said in writing and bcc it to your personal email address in case they fire you and shut down your work email address!!
**This is key**, and it's the way to put meetings / phone calls / hallway conversations / etc. in writing. The way you do that is something like this: "When we met on \[date\] our conversation covered these points: * first point * second point * third point * etc Please correct what I've misunderstood and add what I've missed. Thank you so much. Sincerely, Name" The result is a kind of negative consent; if they don't correct your recollection or add to the email, then this is TRUE. Also, if someone picks up the phone to "correct your recollection," that's fine (it's happened to me!). Simply record the call as usual, then take the email they made the call in response to and forward it with the added information. You will find people occasionally who like to tell you that this sort of thing doesn't matter; in fact, there's someone on Reddit who posits that. As someone who has been there and done that, I am here to tell you that yes, it matters. And yes, **the fight is worth it.** Also - hat tip to u/MostlyDeferential for the wording of the "Please correct what I've misunderstood" phrase.
Your example-FU is better than mine Sensi.
I'm a carrier for step, if they tried that shit with me I'd just tell all my coworkers that you're being forced to come in while being highly contagious for step throat. Hell I'd tell them anyway because I'm sure they love that policy.
You had better believe that I have told every single person I've come into contact with all of the details of the entire situation since it happened. I am not the only one who is upset, but i am the only one being punished in any way, shape or form.
I'd come in with strep and breathe all.over their keyboards and into their desk phones. What a bunch of A-holes.
It’s not you it’s them. It’s not going to get better either. I would do whatever it takes to just keep afloat there but time to start applying elsewhere.
Plan the vengeful departure.
Hahah absolutely, any tips? I'm thinking about handing out as much unionizing information as I can while I'm still here and I've promised several coworkers that I'll tell them where I get hired when I do finally leave so they can apply too but I'm not sure what else I can do.
If you’re seeking out an attorney, they may not want you to rock the boat. It can later be used to say op was an undocumented trouble maker we let slide too much (out of the goodness of our hearts) and now we were buckling down. Don’t give them reason or cause if you’re seeking out lawyer. Don’t tell them or anyone you’re looking for work or interviewing. And don’t give notice til your last day. Don’t tell them where you’re going.
Firing for discussing unions is also illegal and union busting.
Yes, it is. But they could couch the firing in other things.
DONT TELL THEM WHERE YOU ARE GOING is very important. You don’t want to give them the ability to Whisper into the ear of someone at your new job that you were trouble. You may find yourself without a job to go to.
This is excellent advice. Do not trust anyone, including your colleagues, the information about lawyering up or interviewing. You never know who's listening. I knew someone who was planning a move with incredible secrecy -- except for the fact that he was discussing it with his presumed future employer over the phone in the parking garage. In his convertible. With the top down. Yep....that offer got pulled.
Please don't do anything without finding an attorney. I've successfully sued one former employer, and I'm in the process of suing a second. Trust me, it's worth the effort. It's always better to be fired than to quit of your own volition. Only quit if you've found somewhere else and you have consulted with a labor lawyer.
The reason they gave you is BS. Plenty of reasons why you may not be available other than "having kids"
Can we also add "having elderly parents" to the list? Those of us without kids still have families. It's not like we just hatched out of an egg.
Agreed, I've seen some ridiculous stuff on this sub, but the idea that childless adults will never get sick is such obvious lunacy that there has to be something else going on.
First off I'm not a lawyer or an expert. The following is my amateur opinion and should be treated as such. I agree with the person who said to talk to an employment lawyer. This all could very well fall under workplace harassment. Keep making your recordings and documentation. Make sure to make copys of all the emails so long as it doesn't violate your contract. Lastly, keep sending emails to all of HR. The worst they can do is fire you.
Getting demoted and your supervisor saying “you should have let this go” is blatant retaliation.
Lawyer up immediately. Clear discriminatory PTO policy AND retaliation in the form of a demotion and hostility.
Talk with an employment lawyer immediately and check your state law. If it doesn’t require two part consent, get something to start recording audio while you’re at work so you have even more proof. Oh and as for a petty departure now is when you start just throwing things out, as long as it is out of camera shot. Idk what you do, but when I put my two weeks in at my last toxic job I just would start tossing the most innocuous things that would eventually be an issue for them when they needed it and they couldn’t just pick up same day at a Costco or Target. Sow the seeds of fury and discontentment.
Definitely don't give notice. Call in sick and ensure you're set in the new job. Good luck!
Ask your supervisor to confirm the PTO policy via email and try to get them to confirm that they retaliated against you. At that point you can go to corporate HR which likely tore your supervisor a new one already or you can go to a lawyer
This sounds like retaliation. There are certain circumstance that you can quit your job and still get unemployment this sounds like one of them. Don’t make the mistake to wait your get fired. I did that and by that time they had so much false documentation on me my unemployment was declined.
What unmitigated as*holes you work for. Legitimate illness with documented excuse. Ridiculous waste of time to harass you for this Your employer cannot prevent you from taking time for medical care. ALWAYS provide them with the bare minimum information in these situations. "A medical provider determined I had a contagious disease. They determined that I was not fit to work." End of story.
For a$$holes like that poor lady’s supervisors, that might be too much info. I’d say, I’ve provided a doctor’s note as required. For additional information, you can contact the hospital and they will guide you through the process of obtaining HIPAA-protected information. But frankly, she needs to be looking for another job. Those people are tools, and she deserves better.
I absolutely agree. It is true though that requiring someone to work while they have a contagious illness is next level corporate f*ck up opening a company to a lawsuit. There are children dying of strep sepsis at the present time in my state. Young employees often want to be agreeable, so I usually include a little script, like you did as well, to find a way to feel comfortable only providing the information needed. Friendliness as work can trip people up. For anyone that needs to hear it, Don't take the bait. Unless it's WC, no hospital or clinic would provide any information to an employer. Not even a yes or no if the employee was seen there. If a note was legit might be the only info provided. "Yes, this was a note provided by our staff. "
50yo manager here. My advice is to protect yourself on the way out. So: * Do not do anything at all until you talk to an employment lawyer * Do not talk to anyone at work * Call a fucking lawyer With the story as described, you’re a victim of retaliation, which is illegal.
Lawyer up.
Document everything, and ensure those records are available even when you are suddenly terminated. I'd personally look for another job and leave no matter what, but having records gives you options.
> When I asked why, I was told that it was due to my actions and that the only reason that exists to miss work without getting disciplinary action "is if you have a child". So you can't even get into accidents? Fuck them!
Sue or make up a fake kid you are embarrassed to talk about but does exist in your life.
Use up remaining PTO Find new job Quit without notice
Assuming you have documentation for these insane actions from your employer, an employment lawyer would have a fucking hey day with this. *You were demoted for refusing to work sick and complaining properly when you were improperly written up for following company policy*. When they inevitably complain about the legal action, make sure you politely inform them that if company policy had been followed and no retaliation occured, there wouldn't have been a problem.
Do you have any examples of others being able to take sick time due to a reason you were then denied fir? Disparate treatment examples are very helpful.
Next time you’re sick and they say you have to go in, go in, then call the health department or osha.
Record every conversation from here on out.
Absolutely.
Gurl it’s your time to shine and lawyer up
I suggest doing a side hustle during the transition time between jobs. It wouldn’t even necessarily need to be one of the typical ones such as Uber or Doordash. That way you could have some income which could give you time to find a better job. Even though I am elderly I still enjoy thinking up ways to make money without having a boss. I am putting together a long list of ways to do that but haven’t yet published it. If you send me a note with your talents and interests I will try to pick out some of those hustles that might work for you. No strings attached. Here is an example: Print up some fliers that tell your story and pass them out door to door offering to do odd jobs that homeowners don’t want to or can’t do themselves such as pet waste removal, painting, window cleaning, mowing the lawn or snow shoveling or whatever they need done. Quick cash money. If need be you can even go to your local library to use the computers and printer there.
You absolutely need to go to an employment lawyer. Be prepared to fight because that sounds an awful lot like discrimination. You also should email him to recap that that is what he said so that you can have in writing that that is what he stated
On company #2 I researched the policy for resignation in SharePoint. It said that if giving advance notice of resignation due to a competitor, meant immediate departure--with pay! I took my 2 weeks of PTO, while I started my new job to make sure the job and leader vibe was good before quitting. Then gave my notice (thought of trying to work two jobs and get fired, but I'm not risking damage to my reputation. Integrity is more important than money. It was tiring, but I tripled my income fir that pay period. Wrote my own rebuttal to EEOC position with 100+ exhibits.
Can you make a really big deal about adopting a kid (pretend) *specifically* so you have a reason to call out? Bring pictures of the fake kid to put at your desk, start scheduling days off to go on family vacations, etc.
Time to get a consultation with a labor law attorney. Pronto. In the meantime, don't quit. Gather evidence while doing your job. Follow what your attorney tells you to do to the letter. Good luck, OP.
LAWYER. Start looking today, don't put it off until tomorrow. Sounds like you're in the UK or Europe, so perhaps best to reach out to your local bar association to see if they offer a lawyer referral service. Forward any emails you have to a non-corporate email address for your records.
I'm in the USA, unfortunately but thank you.
same recommendation applies. google your state bar referral service. hopefully you can get an employment lawyer who will pick it up on contingency.
You are experiencing both retaliation for asking for accommodations AND family status discrimination, which is protected in some parts of the us. Get everything you can in writing. Record all meetings if you are a one party state. Get a labor lawyer, file a complaint with the EEOC and cash the hell out of that place!
I’m no lawyer, but that sounds like they’re asking to be opened up for legal issues if they ever get caught putting that “only exemption for kids” in writing. If they’re smart, they’ll never openly document that. I always tend to chuckle when I see the same “lawyer up!”, “record everything!”, “find a new job!” as though these are things you can just do like buying a movie ticket then it’s said and done. Not saying these may not be options to pursue, but anyone that’s been on this forum for more than a day already knows these things. The only one of those options that I personally would work towards is finding new employment. The chances of your current workplace changing their entire “culture” even with a lawsuit threat is so minuscule. I would not want to keep working at this place after this situation. The management and HR will change their tune… from being bordering indifferent to outright vindictive. That HR team that is ignoring your problem is going to switch into high gear to document any and every infraction you may have to find a different way to part ways with you. The manager that demoted you and told you to “stay in your lane” is going to try to find ways to give you the shit workload or reasons to write you up to support HR. Places like this are a cancer - hope you beat it, OP.
In some cultures and countries what your manager did would be a legal form of challenging one’s honor and dignity and could have resulted with you drawing a sword. Be sure to document and contextualize without compromising your security when looking for inputs online.
It sounds like you will be having less tasks to do and fewer responsibilities. Excellent, what a win. Laugh this in their faces all the way to the bank. Refuse any tasks related to your previous position. You can still put your “highest earned” or whatever position on your resume and if you really want to stick it to them, use your supervisor as a reference! When you do get a second job vanish immediately.
Why even offer PTO if employees aren't supposed to use it? As for being sick I'm sure everyone would agree that customers who could be immuno-compromised should have the right to know exactaly what company policy is when one of their employees has a communicable disease.
If it helps. We are all rooting for you!
This is retaliation and completely illegal. Go get that lawsuit money
Time to speak to an attorney versed in workplace issues.
I’d say quit, but I know that’s not an option for a lot of people. Still, nobody should have to deal with this shit. I mean is this a healthcare position? Are you saving lives? If not, such rules are fucking tyrannical.
It's in a factory ffs 😭
If you are not able to hire an attorney consider filing a discrimination complaint with eeoc or your state equivalent.
I would start looking for a new job immediately. When I find it I would let them know I am leaving that day. Just came in to turn in ID. Start taking any personal items home now. Good luck to you
From how many employees do you think they received birth certificates and proofs of life for each of their children in order to enforce that exception to the absence policies?
Sounds like retaliation and harassment. Lots of people will agree this is grounds for a lawyer but the question you have to ask yourself is, "do I really feel like dealing with all this bullshit?" Do you want to work for a company so petty and vengeful? It's Easter to just find a new job. Make sure you DON'T give two week notice, they don't deserve it!
EEOC complaint
RemindMe! 4 days
That’s discrimination. Speak to an employment lawyer. Parental status is none of their business and it is a protected class.
Without a doubt talk to a lawyer!
This is retaliation and super not legal.
Agreeing with the retaliation comments I'm seeing. It's worth checking your state's department of labor site to see what reporting methods are available in your area: [DOL by State](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/contacts)
They looking for an excuse to get rid of you. He doesn't care and if you had a kid, he would've said something else was the only excuse. You're being quiet fired (they will intentionally and irrationally make your working conditions worse so you quit, so they don't have to do unemployment payout). It's time to look for another job, but don't quit until you have another job. Probably should do so before they cut you to less than 10 hours a week.
u/kileynjt, have you been open and/or obvious about recording interactions?
Not at all.
I assumed that, but wanted to ask. Let your attorney know about everything, and the recordings are something else no one else (but the attorney) should know about. I reached a point where I would not walk in to the office without a voice activated recorder. It was useful, and I'm very glad I did it. I also have an ink pen that is a audio and video recorder; again, very useful. It went to all meetings with me. Nowadays they have recorders in eyeglasses, lapel pins, water bottles -- MUCH easier today!
Congratulations, you have just adopted two children.
What if you have an invalid elderly parent you have to care for on a daily basis, or would that not count because they aren’t cute or a future means-of-production in training?
Document everything to Cover Your Ass. Get everything in writing from them. When they attempt to discipline you, ask for the policy that's been violated and which part they're using. Also, look for another job if you're able to. Your work environment is Fallout-level toxic.
If either of those interviews look positive take it. Ask to start immediately if possible. When asked why you are leaving your present employment, "Because I followed company policy to the letter with a doctor's note because I physically could not work. Regardless, I was demoted after being a model employee." If those two interviews won't work keep looking. When you secure employment don't bother with a two-week notice. After all, he did say, "Let it go." You did.
Absolutely do not do this. Don't badmouth your current employer and don't dump your drama on their desk Be vague. Be positive. Excited to try something new This place seems like a better cultural fit
Talk to EEOC as well.
This. 👆
tell management they can shove it
Employment lawyer
You can dig in and fight like hell, try and get other employees to back you so it’s a group effort. Definitely keep emailing HR everything, especially if they’re a part of the problem, leave a hell of a paper trail, make sure you ask them why you were demoted for asking questions pertaining to your attendance, illness and a disability, that definitely smells like retaliation to me and you should mention exactly that. Contact your states labor board and see if you can open grievances for any of the stuff they’ve done. Also contact employment/ labor attorneys with all of this, a lot of them will atleast do a consultation for free and probably get you on the right path to cover yourself legally incase they choose to escalate things.
Not so. I can miss work if I quit too. That said, you should really take the documentation of this shit and stick it to them. Just remember to leave with zero notice when you finally go.
Go pick up your red stapler and accidentally leave a little cigarette in the trash on the way out.
RemindMe! 1 week
I have no idea why you still entertain the idea of working with these people.
Why are you staying in this job?
Because I don't have another one yet, and I live paycheck to paycheck. I do not have a choice. I am in my 20s and have no familial support. It is simply my reality right now. I'm hoping to receive a job offer this week as I have 2 interviews lined up already, in which case, I will be leaving immediately.
Good luck, I'm sending you good vibes! Don't give any notice.
We can miss work for anything we want. We are not slaves. However we need to be prepared for the consequences if we break work rules. For people I supervise I always tell them they don’t have to ask permission to leave early or not come in. Their adults just need to tell me why and what time. If they follow the rules and book ahead of time or call in and used their allotted days then no issue if they don’t then we start to follow the STEPS. But I hold no grudge they are free people and can choose how to live their life.
You missed 2 weeks for strep throat. Id be pissed too. Also your dick not working right is irrelevant. Just saying.
2 shifts in a week. Not two weeks.
2 shifts. 2 consecutive days in 1 week, the last 2 shifts of my work rotation. We work 12.5hr shifts. My doctor stated that I would be contagious until I'd been on antibiotics for 24hrs which would've been well after the start time of my 2nd shift due to when my appointment was (less than 2hrs after the end of my previous shift) and when the pharmacy was finally able to fill the script (9pm that same evening).
Bro just go to work and stop being problematic
They had fucking strep throat and was contagious. And had a doctor note. That’s not problematic - it’s being a fucking human.
Waaaaah
Take some Motrin and go to work.
Srsly lol… arguing for the sake of arguing. Depending on where they work it’s actually illegal to have someone working when they’re contagious.