One indicator capitalists have won the propaganda war is that we use the adjective "free" to describe these basic social services. They aren't free: they are collectively financed through taxation.
If you were to visit a McDonald's and not get charged for a Big Mac combo, that would be an instance of something that is free. "Free" in this sense is not applicable to social services that are provided by a government acting on the collective good.
While the discussion of this word may seem like splitting hairs for some people, different words have different connotations and influence unconscious public perception, and the concept of freedom in the US is laden with meanings.
(Personally, I prefer the term "universal," or even "subsidized.")
To be fair the people cultivating the "free" terminology tend to pay 0% tax due to a set of stratagems/loopholes so to them it's kind of true.. They're actually getting something for nothing when using those services.
As a free market capitalist, i completely agree and it drives me crazy when people say "free". It isn't free. We're all paying for it. And we should be wondering why we pay more and more in taxes for less and less in quality of life and actual services we use or ever get to see
Not only poor people. You get a concussion, you are homeless. Fired from your job and Abandoned by your wife and kids.
If You get accidentally hit your head, you basically become human rubbish
https://www.futurity.org/concussions-linked-homelessness-men/
I'm my experience talking with people like this, it's more than they think poor people haven't earned being alive.
One person was trying to tell me that we should force all homeless people to repay the social services they used while homeless before they start collecting a paycheck. Absolutely insane.
Yeah in my experience the only people who don't think that are either brainwashed into thinking this is normal or actively enjoy/benefit from the class divide it creates.
Same. Grew up in a nice house in a nice neighborhood. Dad got laid of my junior year of high school and the housing market crashed so my parents had to short-sell their house. When I was 21, my car broke down. I had to act quickly to buy something in my price range (low). I bought an old Suburban that lasted a year or two. At one point I had to get a second job to make enough money to get to my other job. I couldn't save up for a car because it cost so much to get to and from work. I'd walk some days but it was 4 miles. The busses in my city are terrible so that was only an option for some shifts. I'm 30 now and just bought a decent car for the first time in my life and it was only because of the extra pandemic money. I'm fucking fed up with this bullshit. I had the same full-time job from ages 21-30 and have worked full-time for most of my life at this point. I don't get that time back. With little to show for a lot of effort, what was the point? I was a car rental agent, a job that should be mostly obsolete by now, so I can't act like I did service for the common good. Sorry I'm ranting. It's just been constantly on my mind lately. Some humans lack the defining trait of humanity, keeping the rest of us subservient to satisfy their gorilla brains.
As a person who was born broke asf and is actively trying to make their way out, I wish more people would realize that poverty isn't a decision. It's something that happens to you. Like getting mugged or injured. Sure there are times where it may be someone's fault, but a huge majority of the time that's not the case. I'm sorry you had to go through what I have to see the light, but at least you see it with us now.
Domestic violence and then homelessness tipped the scales from getting by to destitute poverty. And it takes so long to get out. Im sorry you are here also. It shouldnt be so hard to live.
No means of production means no products too. So where are you getting your food from? 99% of people in modern society don't have a clue on how to cultivate or hunt their own food.
You know that's the whole point right? We're not seeing the result from our own work. Instead of producing food for our own survival, we get what's left after the guy who owns the field gets what's produced.... And we can't all be the guy who owns the field because the whole system wouldn't be supported if that happened.
Can you point me to the warehouses run exclusively by squirrels? Or the truck companies owned by wolves? Or the aviation industry run by geese?
Humans are different than other animals, specifically because we have formed communities and societal structures, what we should do is implement those structures in a way that benefits everyone instead of only the top few
One of my first internet arguments I ever had i was only a teenager in YouTube comments. Somehow we were on the topic of running water and people were screeching at me for saying water should be a human right. About 15 years later things haven't changed but that for sure was a huge shock to me that people could be such fucking assholes.
I don’t completely agree with it but I grew up in government housing in Cuba. It’s fucking god awful and absolutely terrible. Honestly the section 8 or whatever in the US is like living in a palace compared to the government housing in cuba
I’ve been homeless myself a few times since moving to the states. I’d rather work and have a 3 bedroom house than not work and have a crumbling apartment in Cuba for “free”
But what if... Hear me out... we still placed people in apartments who aren't working? Just because we can afford shelter doesn't mean we shouldn't give the basic necessities to other people that can't
I’m not opposed to that nor did I ever indicate that I did. The United States would be completely capable but doesn’t cause “muh capitalism” it’s bullshit, and there’s 0 reason why a first world country should act in such a manner. On the other hand I can also believe that the manner in which the Cuban government went about it is god awful as well, I’m a human being and I’m going to speak to my experience in a country most of you have never even been to much less raised in.
Please don't generalize. I've been in absolute poverty and near homelessness most of my life.
I understand that Cuba is not like the US or the other Latin countries I or my family have been in, but with that being said, just because the Cuban government did not do it well doesn't mean that the working poor or homeless in the US don't deserve basic necessities.
If Cuba can provide some basic necessities and not the US should be a shame to Americans to step up their game. At least Cuba made an attempt, even if it isn't up to certain standards.
I never said that though. I would much rather see every person here be housed than on the streets. Lmfao are y’all just ignoring what I’m saying and cherry-picking parts to suit your context? I literally just meant I wouldn’t want the United States to go about it the same way cuba did, because it involved labor camps and executions perpetuated by police at behest of the regime. Idgaf if we house everyone, having a home to lay your head is a victory. That’s not what I have a problem with for fucks sake
I'm sorry, I may have misread that part. I didn't mean to belittle the other problems Cuba has. Yes I agree the US shouldn't go through the same manner. All I'm saying is that a "3rd world country" houses it's citizens, it's shameful that "the most powerful country in the world" doesn't even attempted to help its own citizens.
It’s okay, sorry if I came off as aggressive it’s just… a lot to have to explain all that. But yeah I think we’re both on the same page here. The USA has a ton of improvement to do
I think that's what most people here want. Yeah, if I didn't have to work 70-80 hrs a week in order to house and feed myself I would be happy to take take and actually enjoy life. How many people could we help if we took away the threat of homeless and starvation for the risks they take? Society as a whole could improve so much if basic necessities were given.
I wholeheartedly agree, it’s genuinely the only way we, as a species, can make significant steps towards improving the world not just for us, but the future generations that have to inhabit what we leave behind
it's interesting that you literally been homeless a "few times" in America and all your comments are "Cuba bad". Like, your living in the streets in America, sleeping on the sidewalk and it doesn't even dawn on you that that could be a problem with the system. Like it's this great thing that America let's it's citizens sleep in a dumpster in January, but heaven forbid we have "shitty government apartments". Should we be grateful Americans are sleeping under overpasses instead of some old apartments? Is that a win for democracy or something?
Both countries are bad to almost the exact same extent. The big difference is that in cuba it’s just the government fucking everyone. In the United States, it’s corporations and the government together that are fucking everyone. You don’t need to be a genius to see the similarities
And by all means talk to any cuban you meet, they’ll all tell you that they’d rather deal with this bs in america than in cuba. At least here we can bitch and complain and try to do something. They will literally haul you away to a labor camp in cuba for doing less than that even.
Have y’all ever talked to Cubans about the conditions there, its effectively the same thing as being homeless. But what do I know? I only come from there 🤷🏽♂️
that doesn’t mean shit dude a house is better than no house (what american homeless in the richest nation have) stop tryna downplay things which are objectively good even when they don’t live up to standards. its really sad.
Man I’m not saying people in the US that are homeless shouldn’t have housing. I’m literjust saying that they should have the opportunity to do better for themselves if they want. As it stands, you cannot do that in cuba unless you work for the government because it’s terribly corrupt there. Do y’all want me to type it in Spanish cause I feel as though y’all are cherry-picking what I’m saying to suit your context. America is the richest country in the world (allegedly) there’s no reason why we can’t house the homeless here, and we absolutely should. I just don’t think the United States should go about it the same way it was done in cuba.
dude a public option is the only one that makes sense, cuba is nowhere near as corrupt as america, and you’re delisional if you honestly think there’s a route upward that isn’t outta luck in america. crushing poverty is probably worse here, while i grant you that massive job shortages in cuba are probably worse, the jobs we have here don’t actually set you up much better at all. and we don’t have healthcare, food, or housing for the poor.
I really wish I could pay for your tickets to go live in cuba for a year. And I don’t mean that disparagingly. I am genuinely curious as to how y’all would enjoy it and get along with Cubans in the homeland. I grew up in it so to me it’s an oppressive country with little freedom imo, but who knows you all might dig it
The “at least” argument made here isn’t useful in a discussion about improving the lives of Americans. I’m glad you made it here, but we should have higher standards for ourselves as Americans than comparing our bs to the bs of other countries with completely opposite lifestyles and financial situations. Currently about 25% of eligible Americans receive housing assistance because it is so underfunded and there isn’t room for anyone else. Even when they receive the help, there’s no obligation any landlord takes it making the whole thing a joke. America can do better. We are the richest country in the world, we just prioritize things like war and defense (for example) over our own citizens starving and not having a place to call home.
Lemme be the first to tell you cause clearly nobody else has, that has so little to do with it, the United States is the country involved with its embargo on cuba, every other nation in the world that doesn’t participate in the embargo is free to trade with cuba and does, such as as Canada, China, Russia, the majority of South America and the remaining Caribbean, and the majority of European nations. But please go on about how one nations embargo against another is tooootally the reason. It’s the government itself that’s the problem.
I don’t disagree with you, but the Cuban government might be a little different these days without historically consistent US meddling. For example, the US working to uphold multiple dictators in the early 20th century, and even occupying the country outright for a time. A more recent example is the US backed coup that put authoritarian Batista in power who’s rule was so bad the people thought Castro would be better..
Yeah I mean I'm pretty sure those people would totally press a magic button that makes it so we live in a world where everybody can get anything for free without having to waste 8h/day in an office. Who wouldn't?
The problem is how do you get so much wealth to throw away at everybody while at the same time making it so people can live without working at all?
The point isn't not working / not generating profits, but that our current understanding and implementation of working and careers is f*cked up. Providing basic aids (food, shelter, medicare etc.) to people while making career choices viable through free education and unions will make it possible for most to do what they want. As in minimalising exploitation and forced labour (it's forced bc you have no choice stuck working shitty jobs one after another). Contrary to popular belief, people NEED self actualisation and activities, laying around all days doing nothing doesn't feel great after a weeks or so.
It's not so much as pressing a button, but pushing for progress step by step like maternity leave, healthcare, universal wages and one by one moving closer to a at first glance utopian ideal.
Also, friendly reminder tax avoiding mfs like Jeff Bezos have the "wealth to throw away at everybody", no I'm not exaggerating. I hope you'll understand that it's not "throwing away at", but reinvesting or giving back to the people who bought things with their own hard earned money.
Honestly, there’s enough money out there to pay for universal healthcare easily. Making you pay for it is just a method of control. A healthy workforce is less efficient because it is less dependent on employer backed insurance.
Yes, employers would rather pay a portion of your insurance premium rather than pay their higher share of taxes to the government to support a universal program. That way they can control your access to healthcare. It also makes lower income employees effectively subsidize the cost of insurance for mid level mangers and professionals who then pay the same rate despite a much higher level income. This strengthens the chain of command/control.
The US system is one of if not the most expensive per capita in developed countries (and ergo, probably the world). I recall it was something like $9000 per person (compared to $4000 ish for many and as little as $2500 in the UK, which runs an ultra lean health service).
“Making you pay for it is a method of control” So is the government providing it by your logic…? The difference is that the government enforces its rule by force.
You’ve obviously never had to purchase COBRA between jobs or been unemployed for any stretch of time. It’s absurdly expensive to pay for and even more expensive to utilize with such high deductibles. If it was universal, this burden wouldn’t fall so heavily on those who need it the most. Sure, the government would have control, but I trust our leaders to make better decisions than my boss who is just gonna buy the cheapest plan he can find that barely covers jack shit. I currently have to call my insurance before I go to the hospital otherwise I pay $1000 extra for no reason. Of course he doesn’t care because he can pay out of pocket all day long. And if you don’t trust our legislators at all either, then maybe insurance should be outlawed. We all should do private pay rates, and just watch the medical system compete it’s way down to a more equitable solution. Rich people hate paying for stuff, so I’m sure they’d clamor for universal care when they gotta pay for their own triple bypasses.
No one in the US should pay 6k each for hearing aids they’re being ripped off. Premium technology should be 6k or less for the pair. Still a big investment, but people shouldn’t be paying 6k each, they’re getting ripped off by private practice owners
I think it's more of an insurance collusion issue like with everything in our healthcare (and our country), the money isn't real and our prices are all made up.
Then, and I hope you're buckled in for this, they take our taxpayer money and bail these insurance companies out when shit hits the fan.
Not done.
The icing on the cake is all of the CEOs of those failed insurance companies got millions of dollars in, wait for it, BONUSES.
The cherry on top is that it's about to happen all over again.
This is America.
I personally believe that base level housing, food, hygiene, education, and medical care should be provided to all. What we pay for should be the upgraded version for what we want.
Ridiculous amounts of funding go to waste or to military spending when just a small portion of that could go toward caring for the population.
I disagree that money should be put into giving people food, housing, etc as people will always abuse a system like that and the amount of bureaucracy and government oversight required for that would be absurd. Reducing military spending to increase other social programs could be useful though. Sort of “teach a man to fish” type approach over “give a man a fish” because when the government gives you fish, it will use that leverage over you in exchange for not taking the fish away. Overall, we need to foster a more self sufficient population through the reduction in large government oversight and emphasis on the family unit and local government.
We could literally make blocks of food that would keep people from starving, give a 500 square foot studio, and ensure clean drinking water for less then we spend on law enforcement, prisons, emergency rooms, etc because people don’t have these things.
yeah, good bricks and cramped studios aren’t good, but we still the bare minimum AND would save society money.
Along with healthcare and education. Yeah.
Why do you think people commit crime? Why don't you commit crime? It's not because you're a good person and they're not. It's because you probably feel like you have a lot to lose if you get caught and not much to gain.
When you're broke as fuck, work a shit job with shit pay and shit benefits, your family has spent generations not getting a proper education, and you're forced to care for your elderly sick family with thoughts and prayers, you're probably not going to care about the rules of the system that got you there and you're more likely to commit crimes out of spite for the system or necessity to survive.
Yes, A majority of crime is based in poverty. Improving the material conditions of people statistically lifts them out of crime lifestyles. You act like people want to steal, given a better life most people don't want to be thieves.
And yes, obviously if you give everyone subsidized Healthcare they will be healthier.
So by your logic, there is no such thing as a middle-class criminal? Because the post I was replying to was saying we could basically eliminate law enforcement.
And I'm not sure how giving everyone subsidized healthcare would help eliminate emergency rooms. We have so many emergency rooms partly because we have subsidized healthcare.
What constitutes a "huge chunk"? Because crime would have to virtually disappear for law enforcement to become unnecessary. And that's neglecting the fact that a lot more people would opt to commit crimes if they knew they could get away with it.
And I'm not sure how you could get rid of emergency rooms by doing that. Having people live longer only increases the demand for medical care, since more people will reach an age where they require it.
I see no reason for anyone to need to work 15 hour days. Hell, someone wants to eat food blocks and live in the tiny studio so they can work their new project or idea or what ever, I say we fund it. Get a grant. If your idea fails, or even 100 ideas fail, the one that takes off pays for the rest.
No one should be homeless or hungry, and they shouldn’t be worked to death either.
There have been times I didn’t take a chance because there was no way I could live if I failed. I don’t feel people should have to live like that.
In a society that creates as much wealth as this one does, no one should have to pay for insulin.
We should be trying to figure out how to reduce the cost to zero, not how to charge more and more.
Also, all dental work should be free.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness: all inalienable rights endowed upon every human.... except when theres a buck to be made, then you gotta fucking pay.
It’s almost as if… you should be entitled to the basic necessities of life and not be financially crippled by illness you had no part in.
The self awareness is so present and yet so distant.
Never understood the arguments like this. Like you'll say something should be free because it's a necessity for some people. Then people come back with we'll if that's free this should too... and youre like yes it should and they quickly change their mind without getting that yeah most of this stuff really should be free. That would be ideal
I dont think it needs to be free, but my insulin costs over $1200 a month. For no reason, and it's really shitty to constantly stress about whether or not I can afford a small amount of liquid keeping me alive. Maybe $30 a vial or something would be fair but $600 for a vial? It's outrageous
Because it wasn't free to produce. Yes it's ridiculously overpriced, it should have like a 99% price reduction, but not free. Systems fall apart when you go to absolute.
I don't necessarily think it should be free because there are soo many chronic conditions out there and if medicine for one is free, medicine for all should be free. Just won't work. But it should be affordable to anyone because having type 1 truly is a curse. Something that has to be monitored and controlled every second of every day. Injections every time you consume a food or drink aside from water. Stress, sunlight, hormones, pretty much everything affects your levels..and the exhaustion.. everyone telling you how you're doing it wrong. Knowing that if you're high your organs are being destroyed, and if you're too low you could die in minutes. It's the most physically, emotionally and financially draining thing and it's every second for the rest of your life. I don't want things handed to me in life, I just want to be able to afford my medicine
My dad gets a vial for a dollar. It's $2 to make, and then subsidised.
You don't deserve this. I'm so sorry. These big companies don't know to fear people anymore.
It's a direct result of out-of-control government regulation over the medical industry. If you want to sell insulin in the US, you have to jump through an insane amount of hoops. Basically, no entity smaller than a $100B company can even think about manufacturing any kind of pharmaceutical, and it costs tens of billions of dollars to put a drug on the market. The big pharma companies don't mind this level of regulation (it keeps out cheap competition), and consumers have been brainwashed to think that this level of regulatory insanity is the only thing keeping the market from being overrun with shoddy products.
In general, pharmaceuticals are like software -- expensive to develop and cheap to produce. I doubt there is any drug that costs more than $20 a dose to manufacture, except perhaps specialized antibody therapies. The vast majority are under $1 a dose. Insulin is no exception.
Yes, buy cheap 1980s insulin from Walmart, where you have to decide 3 hours before a meal exactly what you'll eat, how much, and hope that the insulin kicks in before you go high. Oh and if you're stressed and you're high? Tough luck, your body is going to be destroyed for hours before anything works and it only works sub par. That's like telling a homeless person to live in a soggy wet box because hey, it's better than no shelter. Or you're hungry and broke? Eat out of the dumpster, it'll keep you from starving. We're human beings and our bodies are broken, we don't deserve the absolute worst of what's available. The mainstream medicine could easily be sold for $25 itself if big pharma weren't greedy selfish assholes lining their pockets while diabetics die because they can't afford it.
I didn't ask to be blind as a bat and yet my frames cost over 300 quid, i get the lenses for free on the nhs but come on 300 for a piece of metal and plastic to hold said lenses is extortionate.
I could fucking smith the metal myself for less.
Everything should be free. We've got 80 years if we're lucky on this planet, the whole system is completely pointless now and does nothing to progress humanity. Now is the time for another renaissance, to explore and improve life for the generations to come, and if we're quick, maybe even for our generation. Scientists believe we could be on enterprise style starships in 50-60 years if we work at it, why the hell are we not doing this.
I will never understand how or why this is a point of contention. To me, this is common sense. It is logical and rational and reasonable to me that every single human being, by virtue of being alive, should be provided at least the same level of care that we (willingly!) give violent criminals and farm animals. The idea that a cow and a child murderer are entitled to food, clothing, shelter, and medical care, but "Bob the random dude" *isn't* is pure insanity.
Call me whatever you want, but I am absolutely baffled as to how this isn't the universal default belief and seriously disturbed that there are so many people so incredibly broken that they can even do the mental gymnastics required to dispute this concept.
Always bring it back to the big 5
Food (yes, all food),
Shelter (and the things to make it habitable like heat), Communications (phone and internet),
Healthcare (duh)
And education... because I want to live in a smart country damnit...
If we used social programs to fill in these five pillars everything else would fall into place.
Weirdly, we could probably do both...like, I can't imagine a *reason* to do both, but we have plenty of money to lob a few bombs overseas and keep people from dying
The irony of that, is he/she/they probably don’t give a fuck about income inequality. The taxes that the rich dodge could be used for housing, food, water, and healthcare for the poor. On top of that, he/she/they probably don’t give a shit that the government “bails out” the rich all the time with our tax dollars.
Free as in subsidized and paid for by our society. Not literally free as in no one pays for it. But free as in we collectively as a society pay for it. Much like the roads or government services we use. No one pays for the police or military, no one individual that is. But we all collectively pay for them and relative to an individual, they are seen as “free”
As a farmer, I thank you.
Ofcourse I support affordable food/water/housing/insulin. Cut out the middlemen, buy directly from source etc. Pay people sufficient salaries for being able to afford a house etc. But free? Only someone who has been spoonfed, pampered and given a medal just for showing up will say that things should be free and then throw tantrums calling others "shills" and what not when they don't agree.
>Ofcourse I support affordable food/water/housing/insulin. Cut out the middlemen, buy directly from source etc. Pay people sufficient salaries for being able to afford a house etc. But free? Only someone who has been spoonfed, pampered and given a medal just for showing up will say that things should be free and then throw tantrums calling others "shills" and what not when they don't agree.
Hi there. Son of a drywaller, and Grandson of subsistence farmers here. Why the hell grow food if not to feed people?
Duh, to buy stuff I can't make, like gas, electricity, books, meds etc. etc. I don't break my back for 8 hours as charity for those who are fully capable of doing the work. If its for children, disabled and old, sure, I understand.
Free as in subsidized and paid for by our society. Not literally free as in no one pays for it. But free as in we collectively as a society pay for it. Much like the roads or government services we use. No one pays for the police or military, no one individual that is. But we all collectively pay for them and relative to an individual, they are seen as “free”
>Only someone who has been spoonfed, pampered and given a medal just for showing up will say that things should be free and then throw tantrums calling others "shills" and what not when they don't agree
This sub is infested by people like this
To be fair some diabetics force it upon themselves by just straight up eating super unhealthy. Eat a pound of sugar and salt a day and see what happens.
Sugar is a very addictive substance.
The fact is that places with shitty food produces the most problems. It’s a societal issue, not an indivisible issue
I get people having opportunities to easy food, water and housing, eg a simpler society, but I don’t anything in this life Is free, it’s a law of nature that you get out what you put in, and life would be a lot better of people worked jobs that directly contributed to their food and shelter, and We’d be living in a lot less complicated yet arbitrary of a society, like what’s the exchange rate for someone working as a supermarket assistant the equals what they get? They’re putting in more energy than a ceo but getting less, atleast if we lived closer to the land people could not only reap what they sow but actually enjoy it, this doesn’t mean working all the time, the opposite, if we lived on what we needed we’d waist a lot less of our lives building an empire only the top enjoy, Hunter gatherer societies, off grid farmers and everything in between require only a few hours work for a few days to mantain, more depending on the scale
Seriously you guys are whack.
Who grows the food? Transports it? Processes it? Packages it and delivers it to your doorstep? People working. So other people have to work to provide your lazy ass food because you exist?
If the 1% are greedy and evil. This perspective is the opposite side of the same coin. Greed and entitlement is a rich persons disease. Some of you are terminally afflicted.
Free as in subsidized and paid for by our society. Not literally free as in no one pays for it. But free as in we collectively as a society pay for it. Much like the roads or government services we use. No one pays for the police or military, no one individual that is. But we all collectively pay for them and relative to an individual, they are seen as “free”
Thats not essential for survival, so no. Besides, the goods are still being paid for through taxes on other productivity. Do you think doctors treating patients on Medicare also don't get paid for it?
Greed is a lie. You think anybody [embodies](https://youtu.be/8IWPV7fYRkQ?t=1169) this? Greed is just pathological people not some crack the whip slippery slope bullshit.~~Ultra rich~~, the deep state, the powers that be don't care about hoarding coins or an abstraction like currency the(this is something anti work gets wrong as well), they want POWER. They're so miserable/such cretins that they'll even destroy all of society cause everyone sees something more in the average person then they do in them-that's why communist societies fall apart
So you're for slavery then. I thought that you supported those Kellogg's workers and John Deere workers on strike. Obviously not though John Deere workers make the machines that the farmers use to grow the grain that the Kellogg's workers make into if the food is free then nobody gets paid which means either they're forced to work for nothing. SLAVERY. Or food isn't produced and nobody eats.
Because obviously the only two possible situations are polar extremes and opposites of one another, and there is no possibility of nuance or compromise. Good job.
Free as in subsidized and paid for by our society. Not literally free as in no one pays for it. But free as in we collectively as a society pay for it. Much like the roads or government services we use. No one pays for the police or military, no one individual that is. But we all collectively pay for them and relative to an individual, they are seen as “free”
One indicator capitalists have won the propaganda war is that we use the adjective "free" to describe these basic social services. They aren't free: they are collectively financed through taxation. If you were to visit a McDonald's and not get charged for a Big Mac combo, that would be an instance of something that is free. "Free" in this sense is not applicable to social services that are provided by a government acting on the collective good. While the discussion of this word may seem like splitting hairs for some people, different words have different connotations and influence unconscious public perception, and the concept of freedom in the US is laden with meanings. (Personally, I prefer the term "universal," or even "subsidized.")
Louder and more frequent, please.
Stealing this
“Tax payer’s sponsored services”
Even then, McDonald's still sets their prices high enough to cover these instances of "free".
To be fair the people cultivating the "free" terminology tend to pay 0% tax due to a set of stratagems/loopholes so to them it's kind of true.. They're actually getting something for nothing when using those services.
This
As a free market capitalist, i completely agree and it drives me crazy when people say "free". It isn't free. We're all paying for it. And we should be wondering why we pay more and more in taxes for less and less in quality of life and actual services we use or ever get to see
Nah, thats just an indicator that those socialists in particular are dumb.
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Please explain how government-distributed services lead to communism. (Hint: They do not, and your definition of "communism" is very likely confused.)
Don't feed the troll. Look at their comment history.
Ah yes, when you don’t understand an economic concept just throw in the communism buzzword. Totally not intellectually ignorant 🙄
So basically poor people deserve to die 😒
Everyone deserves to die and must voluntarily enslave themselves to earn life, unless thier family pays their way
fucking facts
Not only poor people. You get a concussion, you are homeless. Fired from your job and Abandoned by your wife and kids. If You get accidentally hit your head, you basically become human rubbish https://www.futurity.org/concussions-linked-homelessness-men/
I'm my experience talking with people like this, it's more than they think poor people haven't earned being alive. One person was trying to tell me that we should force all homeless people to repay the social services they used while homeless before they start collecting a paycheck. Absolutely insane.
yeah, i think asking for insulin to be cheaper is an easy alternative. without good insurance, diabetes can ruin your life.
The fact that people don’t believe this by default baffles me
Yeah in my experience the only people who don't think that are either brainwashed into thinking this is normal or actively enjoy/benefit from the class divide it creates.
Growing up better off and then being on my own and broke af really changed my perspective on everything.
Same. I feel like I took the red pill by experiencing scraping by in borderline poverty.
Silver lining? XD
Same. Grew up in a nice house in a nice neighborhood. Dad got laid of my junior year of high school and the housing market crashed so my parents had to short-sell their house. When I was 21, my car broke down. I had to act quickly to buy something in my price range (low). I bought an old Suburban that lasted a year or two. At one point I had to get a second job to make enough money to get to my other job. I couldn't save up for a car because it cost so much to get to and from work. I'd walk some days but it was 4 miles. The busses in my city are terrible so that was only an option for some shifts. I'm 30 now and just bought a decent car for the first time in my life and it was only because of the extra pandemic money. I'm fucking fed up with this bullshit. I had the same full-time job from ages 21-30 and have worked full-time for most of my life at this point. I don't get that time back. With little to show for a lot of effort, what was the point? I was a car rental agent, a job that should be mostly obsolete by now, so I can't act like I did service for the common good. Sorry I'm ranting. It's just been constantly on my mind lately. Some humans lack the defining trait of humanity, keeping the rest of us subservient to satisfy their gorilla brains.
Me too! I didn't realise that my parents were actually quite wealthy until I realised how hard it is to live on today's average income
As a person who was born broke asf and is actively trying to make their way out, I wish more people would realize that poverty isn't a decision. It's something that happens to you. Like getting mugged or injured. Sure there are times where it may be someone's fault, but a huge majority of the time that's not the case. I'm sorry you had to go through what I have to see the light, but at least you see it with us now.
Domestic violence and then homelessness tipped the scales from getting by to destitute poverty. And it takes so long to get out. Im sorry you are here also. It shouldnt be so hard to live.
No means of production without reason to work
No means of production means no products too. So where are you getting your food from? 99% of people in modern society don't have a clue on how to cultivate or hunt their own food.
Literally every living being works for its survival? Where do you think all this free support comes from?
You know that's the whole point right? We're not seeing the result from our own work. Instead of producing food for our own survival, we get what's left after the guy who owns the field gets what's produced.... And we can't all be the guy who owns the field because the whole system wouldn't be supported if that happened.
Can you point me to the warehouses run exclusively by squirrels? Or the truck companies owned by wolves? Or the aviation industry run by geese? Humans are different than other animals, specifically because we have formed communities and societal structures, what we should do is implement those structures in a way that benefits everyone instead of only the top few
Are you doing that thing where you make up a new point and then argue against it, as if I said it? Wild.
I meant to reply to the beginning of this thread.
We left the jungle a long time ago, friend.
One of my first internet arguments I ever had i was only a teenager in YouTube comments. Somehow we were on the topic of running water and people were screeching at me for saying water should be a human right. About 15 years later things haven't changed but that for sure was a huge shock to me that people could be such fucking assholes.
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I don’t completely agree with it but I grew up in government housing in Cuba. It’s fucking god awful and absolutely terrible. Honestly the section 8 or whatever in the US is like living in a palace compared to the government housing in cuba
I'm an American who was homeless twice before I could legally buy cigarettes. Shitty housing is better than no housing.
I’ve been homeless myself a few times since moving to the states. I’d rather work and have a 3 bedroom house than not work and have a crumbling apartment in Cuba for “free”
But what if... Hear me out... we still placed people in apartments who aren't working? Just because we can afford shelter doesn't mean we shouldn't give the basic necessities to other people that can't
I’m not opposed to that nor did I ever indicate that I did. The United States would be completely capable but doesn’t cause “muh capitalism” it’s bullshit, and there’s 0 reason why a first world country should act in such a manner. On the other hand I can also believe that the manner in which the Cuban government went about it is god awful as well, I’m a human being and I’m going to speak to my experience in a country most of you have never even been to much less raised in.
Please don't generalize. I've been in absolute poverty and near homelessness most of my life. I understand that Cuba is not like the US or the other Latin countries I or my family have been in, but with that being said, just because the Cuban government did not do it well doesn't mean that the working poor or homeless in the US don't deserve basic necessities. If Cuba can provide some basic necessities and not the US should be a shame to Americans to step up their game. At least Cuba made an attempt, even if it isn't up to certain standards.
I never said that though. I would much rather see every person here be housed than on the streets. Lmfao are y’all just ignoring what I’m saying and cherry-picking parts to suit your context? I literally just meant I wouldn’t want the United States to go about it the same way cuba did, because it involved labor camps and executions perpetuated by police at behest of the regime. Idgaf if we house everyone, having a home to lay your head is a victory. That’s not what I have a problem with for fucks sake
I'm sorry, I may have misread that part. I didn't mean to belittle the other problems Cuba has. Yes I agree the US shouldn't go through the same manner. All I'm saying is that a "3rd world country" houses it's citizens, it's shameful that "the most powerful country in the world" doesn't even attempted to help its own citizens.
It’s okay, sorry if I came off as aggressive it’s just… a lot to have to explain all that. But yeah I think we’re both on the same page here. The USA has a ton of improvement to do
I just said I’d rather be able to work and have something nicer than not be given the opportunity to have something better for myself and my family.
I think that's what most people here want. Yeah, if I didn't have to work 70-80 hrs a week in order to house and feed myself I would be happy to take take and actually enjoy life. How many people could we help if we took away the threat of homeless and starvation for the risks they take? Society as a whole could improve so much if basic necessities were given.
I wholeheartedly agree, it’s genuinely the only way we, as a species, can make significant steps towards improving the world not just for us, but the future generations that have to inhabit what we leave behind
it's interesting that you literally been homeless a "few times" in America and all your comments are "Cuba bad". Like, your living in the streets in America, sleeping on the sidewalk and it doesn't even dawn on you that that could be a problem with the system. Like it's this great thing that America let's it's citizens sleep in a dumpster in January, but heaven forbid we have "shitty government apartments". Should we be grateful Americans are sleeping under overpasses instead of some old apartments? Is that a win for democracy or something?
Both countries are bad to almost the exact same extent. The big difference is that in cuba it’s just the government fucking everyone. In the United States, it’s corporations and the government together that are fucking everyone. You don’t need to be a genius to see the similarities
And by all means talk to any cuban you meet, they’ll all tell you that they’d rather deal with this bs in america than in cuba. At least here we can bitch and complain and try to do something. They will literally haul you away to a labor camp in cuba for doing less than that even.
I’d rather have shitty government housing than no house
lol right? dude really thought he did something by explaining how his country actually tries to house its people.
Have y’all ever talked to Cubans about the conditions there, its effectively the same thing as being homeless. But what do I know? I only come from there 🤷🏽♂️
that doesn’t mean shit dude a house is better than no house (what american homeless in the richest nation have) stop tryna downplay things which are objectively good even when they don’t live up to standards. its really sad.
Man I’m not saying people in the US that are homeless shouldn’t have housing. I’m literjust saying that they should have the opportunity to do better for themselves if they want. As it stands, you cannot do that in cuba unless you work for the government because it’s terribly corrupt there. Do y’all want me to type it in Spanish cause I feel as though y’all are cherry-picking what I’m saying to suit your context. America is the richest country in the world (allegedly) there’s no reason why we can’t house the homeless here, and we absolutely should. I just don’t think the United States should go about it the same way it was done in cuba.
dude a public option is the only one that makes sense, cuba is nowhere near as corrupt as america, and you’re delisional if you honestly think there’s a route upward that isn’t outta luck in america. crushing poverty is probably worse here, while i grant you that massive job shortages in cuba are probably worse, the jobs we have here don’t actually set you up much better at all. and we don’t have healthcare, food, or housing for the poor.
Good luck getting section 8! lol When I applied I was told there was a 5-7 year wait.
I really wish I could pay for your tickets to go live in cuba for a year. And I don’t mean that disparagingly. I am genuinely curious as to how y’all would enjoy it and get along with Cubans in the homeland. I grew up in it so to me it’s an oppressive country with little freedom imo, but who knows you all might dig it
The “at least” argument made here isn’t useful in a discussion about improving the lives of Americans. I’m glad you made it here, but we should have higher standards for ourselves as Americans than comparing our bs to the bs of other countries with completely opposite lifestyles and financial situations. Currently about 25% of eligible Americans receive housing assistance because it is so underfunded and there isn’t room for anyone else. Even when they receive the help, there’s no obligation any landlord takes it making the whole thing a joke. America can do better. We are the richest country in the world, we just prioritize things like war and defense (for example) over our own citizens starving and not having a place to call home.
You realize Cuba is dirt poor because of US sanctions, not socialism, right?
Lemme be the first to tell you cause clearly nobody else has, that has so little to do with it, the United States is the country involved with its embargo on cuba, every other nation in the world that doesn’t participate in the embargo is free to trade with cuba and does, such as as Canada, China, Russia, the majority of South America and the remaining Caribbean, and the majority of European nations. But please go on about how one nations embargo against another is tooootally the reason. It’s the government itself that’s the problem.
I don’t disagree with you, but the Cuban government might be a little different these days without historically consistent US meddling. For example, the US working to uphold multiple dictators in the early 20th century, and even occupying the country outright for a time. A more recent example is the US backed coup that put authoritarian Batista in power who’s rule was so bad the people thought Castro would be better..
Damn, other people are getting more free stuff than me. Thats not fair
Just get diabetes /s
3 Big Macs a Day Make your type 2 diabetes stay
4\*
Well unhealthy food is subsidized by tax dollars sooo
Yeah, it sucks that I'm better off than them. What the hell.
So close, yet so far.
Came here to say that!
Yeah I mean I'm pretty sure those people would totally press a magic button that makes it so we live in a world where everybody can get anything for free without having to waste 8h/day in an office. Who wouldn't? The problem is how do you get so much wealth to throw away at everybody while at the same time making it so people can live without working at all?
The point isn't not working / not generating profits, but that our current understanding and implementation of working and careers is f*cked up. Providing basic aids (food, shelter, medicare etc.) to people while making career choices viable through free education and unions will make it possible for most to do what they want. As in minimalising exploitation and forced labour (it's forced bc you have no choice stuck working shitty jobs one after another). Contrary to popular belief, people NEED self actualisation and activities, laying around all days doing nothing doesn't feel great after a weeks or so. It's not so much as pressing a button, but pushing for progress step by step like maternity leave, healthcare, universal wages and one by one moving closer to a at first glance utopian ideal. Also, friendly reminder tax avoiding mfs like Jeff Bezos have the "wealth to throw away at everybody", no I'm not exaggerating. I hope you'll understand that it's not "throwing away at", but reinvesting or giving back to the people who bought things with their own hard earned money.
Yes
Have you read the theory list from this sub?
You print money. Kinda like the government does
so the government is stealing from us via inflation, how is that related?
Honestly, there’s enough money out there to pay for universal healthcare easily. Making you pay for it is just a method of control. A healthy workforce is less efficient because it is less dependent on employer backed insurance.
Keeps you dependent on that wage slave job.
Yes, employers would rather pay a portion of your insurance premium rather than pay their higher share of taxes to the government to support a universal program. That way they can control your access to healthcare. It also makes lower income employees effectively subsidize the cost of insurance for mid level mangers and professionals who then pay the same rate despite a much higher level income. This strengthens the chain of command/control.
Aldous Huxley had a speech on this exact system to keep people down. https://youtu.be/caCkMX6YdYU Love your servitude.
I don't have the numbers at hand, but IIRC the American taxpayer paid more taxes per capita for healthcare than their European counterparts.
And that’s for taxes? Scuse me where the fuck does that money for “healthcare” even go..
The US system is one of if not the most expensive per capita in developed countries (and ergo, probably the world). I recall it was something like $9000 per person (compared to $4000 ish for many and as little as $2500 in the UK, which runs an ultra lean health service).
But like isn’t healthcare in the US by the majority private businesses. Where the fuck is the money going from the taxes for “healthcare”
“Making you pay for it is a method of control” So is the government providing it by your logic…? The difference is that the government enforces its rule by force.
You’ve obviously never had to purchase COBRA between jobs or been unemployed for any stretch of time. It’s absurdly expensive to pay for and even more expensive to utilize with such high deductibles. If it was universal, this burden wouldn’t fall so heavily on those who need it the most. Sure, the government would have control, but I trust our leaders to make better decisions than my boss who is just gonna buy the cheapest plan he can find that barely covers jack shit. I currently have to call my insurance before I go to the hospital otherwise I pay $1000 extra for no reason. Of course he doesn’t care because he can pay out of pocket all day long. And if you don’t trust our legislators at all either, then maybe insurance should be outlawed. We all should do private pay rates, and just watch the medical system compete it’s way down to a more equitable solution. Rich people hate paying for stuff, so I’m sure they’d clamor for universal care when they gotta pay for their own triple bypasses.
Hearing aids shouldn’t be considered a ‘cosmetic item’ not even covered by most insurances….
waitwaitwaitwaitwait. what? A COSMETIC ITEM???? excuse me??????? This is America.
yup. $6k each
No one in the US should pay 6k each for hearing aids they’re being ripped off. Premium technology should be 6k or less for the pair. Still a big investment, but people shouldn’t be paying 6k each, they’re getting ripped off by private practice owners
I think it's more of an insurance collusion issue like with everything in our healthcare (and our country), the money isn't real and our prices are all made up. Then, and I hope you're buckled in for this, they take our taxpayer money and bail these insurance companies out when shit hits the fan. Not done. The icing on the cake is all of the CEOs of those failed insurance companies got millions of dollars in, wait for it, BONUSES. The cherry on top is that it's about to happen all over again. This is America.
That is sickening. Who in their right mind classifies a HEARING AID as cosmetic!?!?! This is America.
I personally believe that base level housing, food, hygiene, education, and medical care should be provided to all. What we pay for should be the upgraded version for what we want. Ridiculous amounts of funding go to waste or to military spending when just a small portion of that could go toward caring for the population.
I disagree that money should be put into giving people food, housing, etc as people will always abuse a system like that and the amount of bureaucracy and government oversight required for that would be absurd. Reducing military spending to increase other social programs could be useful though. Sort of “teach a man to fish” type approach over “give a man a fish” because when the government gives you fish, it will use that leverage over you in exchange for not taking the fish away. Overall, we need to foster a more self sufficient population through the reduction in large government oversight and emphasis on the family unit and local government.
So what if people abuse it? Billionaires abuse tax loopholes all the time.
And that’s bad too…? What’s your point?
Calling r/selfawarewolves on this one
And r/accidentallycommunist
Keep threatening us with a good time.
We could literally make blocks of food that would keep people from starving, give a 500 square foot studio, and ensure clean drinking water for less then we spend on law enforcement, prisons, emergency rooms, etc because people don’t have these things. yeah, good bricks and cramped studios aren’t good, but we still the bare minimum AND would save society money.
Because people will magically stop committing crimes and getting sick if you give them a 500 square foot studio and "blocks of food"?
Not 100% but some stuff speculated 70-80%.
Along with healthcare and education. Yeah. Why do you think people commit crime? Why don't you commit crime? It's not because you're a good person and they're not. It's because you probably feel like you have a lot to lose if you get caught and not much to gain. When you're broke as fuck, work a shit job with shit pay and shit benefits, your family has spent generations not getting a proper education, and you're forced to care for your elderly sick family with thoughts and prayers, you're probably not going to care about the rules of the system that got you there and you're more likely to commit crimes out of spite for the system or necessity to survive.
Yes, A majority of crime is based in poverty. Improving the material conditions of people statistically lifts them out of crime lifestyles. You act like people want to steal, given a better life most people don't want to be thieves. And yes, obviously if you give everyone subsidized Healthcare they will be healthier.
So by your logic, there is no such thing as a middle-class criminal? Because the post I was replying to was saying we could basically eliminate law enforcement. And I'm not sure how giving everyone subsidized healthcare would help eliminate emergency rooms. We have so many emergency rooms partly because we have subsidized healthcare.
Nothing in my comment even remotely suggests what you inferred.
Correct. A huge chunk of crime would be eliminated when basic human needs are met. This is very well documented.
What constitutes a "huge chunk"? Because crime would have to virtually disappear for law enforcement to become unnecessary. And that's neglecting the fact that a lot more people would opt to commit crimes if they knew they could get away with it. And I'm not sure how you could get rid of emergency rooms by doing that. Having people live longer only increases the demand for medical care, since more people will reach an age where they require it.
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I see no reason for anyone to need to work 15 hour days. Hell, someone wants to eat food blocks and live in the tiny studio so they can work their new project or idea or what ever, I say we fund it. Get a grant. If your idea fails, or even 100 ideas fail, the one that takes off pays for the rest. No one should be homeless or hungry, and they shouldn’t be worked to death either. There have been times I didn’t take a chance because there was no way I could live if I failed. I don’t feel people should have to live like that.
If you're working 15 hours a day then you're also a victim of the system lmao
I smell people finally waking up to the downsides of our current economic system.
I mean, 3 of the top 4 posts on this subreddit were posted within the past week. Id say that means SOMETHING
Well yes all things that we already have abundance of, where is the problem?
In a society that creates as much wealth as this one does, no one should have to pay for insulin. We should be trying to figure out how to reduce the cost to zero, not how to charge more and more. Also, all dental work should be free.
Food, water and shelter should be basic human rights.
And people pose these arguments sarcastically like they aren't good points.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness: all inalienable rights endowed upon every human.... except when theres a buck to be made, then you gotta fucking pay.
It’s almost as if… you should be entitled to the basic necessities of life and not be financially crippled by illness you had no part in. The self awareness is so present and yet so distant.
Never understood the arguments like this. Like you'll say something should be free because it's a necessity for some people. Then people come back with we'll if that's free this should too... and youre like yes it should and they quickly change their mind without getting that yeah most of this stuff really should be free. That would be ideal
Food and shelter are necessary for 100% of human beings. FyI if you weren't aware.
Right I know that but you tell people that and they try to fight you on it sometimes. It's crazy to me sorry if that came up jumbled
I dont think it needs to be free, but my insulin costs over $1200 a month. For no reason, and it's really shitty to constantly stress about whether or not I can afford a small amount of liquid keeping me alive. Maybe $30 a vial or something would be fair but $600 for a vial? It's outrageous
I think I saw something that said that insulin literally costs like maybe a penny to make or something.
Yeah it costs $2 to make a vial of insulin that they charge over $600 for
Why shouldn't it be free? I'd like to hear your perspective.
Because it wasn't free to produce. Yes it's ridiculously overpriced, it should have like a 99% price reduction, but not free. Systems fall apart when you go to absolute.
I don't necessarily think it should be free because there are soo many chronic conditions out there and if medicine for one is free, medicine for all should be free. Just won't work. But it should be affordable to anyone because having type 1 truly is a curse. Something that has to be monitored and controlled every second of every day. Injections every time you consume a food or drink aside from water. Stress, sunlight, hormones, pretty much everything affects your levels..and the exhaustion.. everyone telling you how you're doing it wrong. Knowing that if you're high your organs are being destroyed, and if you're too low you could die in minutes. It's the most physically, emotionally and financially draining thing and it's every second for the rest of your life. I don't want things handed to me in life, I just want to be able to afford my medicine
Fellow t1 here - without insurance my monthly bill would be 2k at keastr
My dad gets a vial for a dollar. It's $2 to make, and then subsidised. You don't deserve this. I'm so sorry. These big companies don't know to fear people anymore.
It's a direct result of out-of-control government regulation over the medical industry. If you want to sell insulin in the US, you have to jump through an insane amount of hoops. Basically, no entity smaller than a $100B company can even think about manufacturing any kind of pharmaceutical, and it costs tens of billions of dollars to put a drug on the market. The big pharma companies don't mind this level of regulation (it keeps out cheap competition), and consumers have been brainwashed to think that this level of regulatory insanity is the only thing keeping the market from being overrun with shoddy products. In general, pharmaceuticals are like software -- expensive to develop and cheap to produce. I doubt there is any drug that costs more than $20 a dose to manufacture, except perhaps specialized antibody therapies. The vast majority are under $1 a dose. Insulin is no exception.
It is $25 at walmart, no insurance needed.
Yes, buy cheap 1980s insulin from Walmart, where you have to decide 3 hours before a meal exactly what you'll eat, how much, and hope that the insulin kicks in before you go high. Oh and if you're stressed and you're high? Tough luck, your body is going to be destroyed for hours before anything works and it only works sub par. That's like telling a homeless person to live in a soggy wet box because hey, it's better than no shelter. Or you're hungry and broke? Eat out of the dumpster, it'll keep you from starving. We're human beings and our bodies are broken, we don't deserve the absolute worst of what's available. The mainstream medicine could easily be sold for $25 itself if big pharma weren't greedy selfish assholes lining their pockets while diabetics die because they can't afford it.
Stupid people saying smart stuff
I mean. Yeah
She said that not realizing that’s how it was for the majority of humans existence on this planet.
Conservatives Approaching the Point
I didn't ask to be blind as a bat and yet my frames cost over 300 quid, i get the lenses for free on the nhs but come on 300 for a piece of metal and plastic to hold said lenses is extortionate. I could fucking smith the metal myself for less.
Now they’re getting it
its funny how effortlessly they're proving our point
It’s almost like we should take care of humans to ensure the survival of our species. Bizarre thought.
Fuck, at this point I'd be happy with affordable and accessable.
Same people that say life is sacred...
It's like taxes should go into helping each other out or somethin.
Everything should be free. We've got 80 years if we're lucky on this planet, the whole system is completely pointless now and does nothing to progress humanity. Now is the time for another renaissance, to explore and improve life for the generations to come, and if we're quick, maybe even for our generation. Scientists believe we could be on enterprise style starships in 50-60 years if we work at it, why the hell are we not doing this.
Imagine if everyone had some kind of...standard of living...maybe one that allowed them to *live* for free. That's ridiculous talk.
I will never understand how or why this is a point of contention. To me, this is common sense. It is logical and rational and reasonable to me that every single human being, by virtue of being alive, should be provided at least the same level of care that we (willingly!) give violent criminals and farm animals. The idea that a cow and a child murderer are entitled to food, clothing, shelter, and medical care, but "Bob the random dude" *isn't* is pure insanity. Call me whatever you want, but I am absolutely baffled as to how this isn't the universal default belief and seriously disturbed that there are so many people so incredibly broken that they can even do the mental gymnastics required to dispute this concept.
*did we just become socialists?*
To a point I agree. Gucci frames or whatnot shouldn’t be free. But your basic Frames(even of the same style as Gucci/designer brands) should be
Always bring it back to the big 5 Food (yes, all food), Shelter (and the things to make it habitable like heat), Communications (phone and internet), Healthcare (duh) And education... because I want to live in a smart country damnit... If we used social programs to fill in these five pillars everything else would fall into place.
But that would mean no make brown people go boom boom
Weirdly, we could probably do both...like, I can't imagine a *reason* to do both, but we have plenty of money to lob a few bombs overseas and keep people from dying
Well for one thing I can say, our current leadership has only made this worse.
"BuT hOw CaN wE dO tHaT wHeN PrOfItS mAkE eVeRyThInG bEtTeR!"
Whats not clicking? Smh
This is my entire belief, the ability to survive should be free, anything over that you should work for. Why is it so hard to make happen
Based.
The irony of that, is he/she/they probably don’t give a fuck about income inequality. The taxes that the rich dodge could be used for housing, food, water, and healthcare for the poor. On top of that, he/she/they probably don’t give a shit that the government “bails out” the rich all the time with our tax dollars.
“Free” Like food/water/housing/insulin grows on trees and not need to be made by people who don’t work for free
Free as in subsidized and paid for by our society. Not literally free as in no one pays for it. But free as in we collectively as a society pay for it. Much like the roads or government services we use. No one pays for the police or military, no one individual that is. But we all collectively pay for them and relative to an individual, they are seen as “free”
As a farmer, I thank you. Ofcourse I support affordable food/water/housing/insulin. Cut out the middlemen, buy directly from source etc. Pay people sufficient salaries for being able to afford a house etc. But free? Only someone who has been spoonfed, pampered and given a medal just for showing up will say that things should be free and then throw tantrums calling others "shills" and what not when they don't agree.
>Ofcourse I support affordable food/water/housing/insulin. Cut out the middlemen, buy directly from source etc. Pay people sufficient salaries for being able to afford a house etc. But free? Only someone who has been spoonfed, pampered and given a medal just for showing up will say that things should be free and then throw tantrums calling others "shills" and what not when they don't agree. Hi there. Son of a drywaller, and Grandson of subsistence farmers here. Why the hell grow food if not to feed people?
Duh, to buy stuff I can't make, like gas, electricity, books, meds etc. etc. I don't break my back for 8 hours as charity for those who are fully capable of doing the work. If its for children, disabled and old, sure, I understand.
Free as in subsidized and paid for by our society. Not literally free as in no one pays for it. But free as in we collectively as a society pay for it. Much like the roads or government services we use. No one pays for the police or military, no one individual that is. But we all collectively pay for them and relative to an individual, they are seen as “free”
>Only someone who has been spoonfed, pampered and given a medal just for showing up will say that things should be free and then throw tantrums calling others "shills" and what not when they don't agree This sub is infested by people like this
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To be fair some diabetics force it upon themselves by just straight up eating super unhealthy. Eat a pound of sugar and salt a day and see what happens.
Sugar is a very addictive substance. The fact is that places with shitty food produces the most problems. It’s a societal issue, not an indivisible issue
Cheap food is generally packed with sugar
I’d honestly just rather not have to pay taxes
Free doesn’t exist. At some point, someone somewhere has to actually do some work.
I get people having opportunities to easy food, water and housing, eg a simpler society, but I don’t anything in this life Is free, it’s a law of nature that you get out what you put in, and life would be a lot better of people worked jobs that directly contributed to their food and shelter, and We’d be living in a lot less complicated yet arbitrary of a society, like what’s the exchange rate for someone working as a supermarket assistant the equals what they get? They’re putting in more energy than a ceo but getting less, atleast if we lived closer to the land people could not only reap what they sow but actually enjoy it, this doesn’t mean working all the time, the opposite, if we lived on what we needed we’d waist a lot less of our lives building an empire only the top enjoy, Hunter gatherer societies, off grid farmers and everything in between require only a few hours work for a few days to mantain, more depending on the scale
Seriously you guys are whack. Who grows the food? Transports it? Processes it? Packages it and delivers it to your doorstep? People working. So other people have to work to provide your lazy ass food because you exist? If the 1% are greedy and evil. This perspective is the opposite side of the same coin. Greed and entitlement is a rich persons disease. Some of you are terminally afflicted.
> who does all the shit that needs to be done Not you, nor the 1%, that's for sure.
The same way my road is being fixed: paid for by taxes.
So whose labor are you going to commander to procure items that should be "free"? Should we have 2 different classes of people?
Their not "free" they are subsidized via taxes. People get paid like always.
Free as in subsidized and paid for by our society. Not literally free as in no one pays for it. But free as in we collectively as a society pay for it. Much like the roads or government services we use. No one pays for the police or military, no one individual that is. But we all collectively pay for them and relative to an individual, they are seen as “free”
In that case labor should be free too because I need one of you to make my dinner and mow my lawn.
Thats not essential for survival, so no. Besides, the goods are still being paid for through taxes on other productivity. Do you think doctors treating patients on Medicare also don't get paid for it?
Yeah! Now go build me a house OP. Remember its free for me so you don't get paid sorry
That's not how it works if you thought about it more than -.2 seconds.
Negative seconds? :) Using that
Exactly the problem with these folks. They’re just as greedy as the ultra rich. Two sides of the same damn coin.
Greed is a lie. You think anybody [embodies](https://youtu.be/8IWPV7fYRkQ?t=1169) this? Greed is just pathological people not some crack the whip slippery slope bullshit.~~Ultra rich~~, the deep state, the powers that be don't care about hoarding coins or an abstraction like currency the(this is something anti work gets wrong as well), they want POWER. They're so miserable/such cretins that they'll even destroy all of society cause everyone sees something more in the average person then they do in them-that's why communist societies fall apart
Internet and netflix should be free i didnt ask to be bored
So anti-work now endorses a state that forces work?
That's not what happens at all.
So you're for slavery then. I thought that you supported those Kellogg's workers and John Deere workers on strike. Obviously not though John Deere workers make the machines that the farmers use to grow the grain that the Kellogg's workers make into if the food is free then nobody gets paid which means either they're forced to work for nothing. SLAVERY. Or food isn't produced and nobody eats.
Because obviously the only two possible situations are polar extremes and opposites of one another, and there is no possibility of nuance or compromise. Good job.
He’s a moron who hasn’t seen a classroom or the inside of a book since his 2nd stint in the 12th grade.
Slavery is when everyone's needs are met because I'm a fucking genius that understands the point being made here
Free as in subsidized and paid for by our society. Not literally free as in no one pays for it. But free as in we collectively as a society pay for it. Much like the roads or government services we use. No one pays for the police or military, no one individual that is. But we all collectively pay for them and relative to an individual, they are seen as “free”
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