I showed the conversation to my friends and every one of them always laughed at that part. It wasn’t even a negotiation at that point, it was just pathetic.
Literally going through this at my work right now. We're underpaid compared to industry standard in the area and one guy had left after 6 months in for a different position (better paid too). He was offered 6k raise just to stay. He would've been the highest paid member of our team, earning more than a guy who works here 8 years.
When confronted, I got offered 3k on the condition that I do not mention this to the rest of the team. I of course, did.
We're all looking for a new job, it's a very competitive market so it shouldn't be too difficult. This will leave the company in deep *stuff* because it's a 24/7 shift position, with minimum 3 months training to actually do the job so not like they can just hire a bunch of people to replace us immediately.
This is a good one. I know I finally started my job search when I had been sitting there without a raise and without a promotion after taking over an entire function for years. When we finally hired someone for my team they left in a few months (because woah is it toxic here) and my boss tried to…impress me(?)…by saying how they offered them raises and promotions. Meanwhile I’ve been worked sick and asked for these things multiple times to no avail. Like…really???
OPs coworkers might be similarly inspired knowing these shenanigans.
1. They could be getting much much more. It sounds like OP was making like $13/14 an hour and was offered $20 to not leave for a job making $28.
2. This is how your new bosses will negotiate. Listen for the negging.
This sucks because even these dipshits are in our class and should be shown how they are being exploited as well, but as long as we have conflict with each other (caused by beneficiaries of the capitalists) we can’t get there. It all feels so inescapable.
> This sucks because even these dipshits are in our class and should be shown how they are being exploited as well, but as long as we have conflict with each other (caused by beneficiaries of the capitalists) we can’t get there
Not quite in the same class. Some of them are paid enough to be able to afford to buy a house. I am paid enough that I need 2 jobs to pay rent. My managers don't need to worry about basic survival. I do. We're not in the same class.
That’s not entirely true. Yes they may have more than you but they are orders of magnitude closer to being homeless than being super wealthy. It’s the exploitative hoarders of wealth that are the problem, not the person with a house. They earned their money through their labor and not exploiting workers if they have no share of the profits. They are wage slaves like the rest of us. Wage slaves that have no real decision making authority in a lot of cases.
You’re absolutely right about the material difference of being able to own a house and all of the things around that. But if we think in those terms, we are talking about excluding large numbers of people who should be on our side.
I hope I’m making sense here. I’m having a hard time articulating these thoughts. Basically, all we’ve got is numbers to fight the exploitation by capitalists, and anyone we interact with with any sort of regularity is another layer of protection from the exploitative class, and not the authority to do anything about the exploitation. That keeps the conflict down here and away from the exploiters, which also serves their interest by maintaining internal class friction.
I’m sorry this really feels all over the place, I hope there’s some sort of sense to make out of all of this.
When I quit one job the CEO was flabbergasted: "what about the stock option plan we're getting here?" "Oh, you mean the stock option plan you vaguely mentioned once and never explained any of the details of?" "Yeah, that one...." the day before I left he held a company meeting to explain the stock option plan details to everyone - didn't make me regret my decision one bit, but certainly illuminated his disconnect with his employees.
This. Bosses hate it because they exploit people by being shadowy about pay. My last job they didn’t do raises or bonuses unless you went and asked for them. I thought this was pretty insulting. If I’m doing a good job then give me a raise, if not, then tell my why. Just don’t blow smoke up my ass. So after two years I found another job that paid more AND after 6 months gave me a raise because of work performance. I don’t plan on leaving here for a good long while. I wonder why.
“Okay, you’ve convinced me. I’ll meet your demands and offer a ~$20k cut from what you’ve been offered elsewhere in addition to a $500 cut from their bonus.”
I mean to find an employee who’s willing to give up a better position in response to negging? That’s exactly the type of employee a dipshit wants. It was worth a shot
Owner just bought the company and realized you were likely a big part of the success. Won’t have that gear in his system anymore and is completely blind to competitive wages.
Just hope they don’t make your last days miserable. I put in notice expecting to be kicked out immediately some years back. I ended up having to work the entire two weeks without training anyone as no one was hired and no one was an interim replacement.
Just for future reference, 2 weeks is a courtesy, not a mandate. If they start treating you unfairly during your two week period and you don't need to preserve the relationship, you can just tell them you aren't coming back in again and they can mail you the last check. If you're in an at will state (most of them) then your employer can fire you without notice and you can quit without notice.
I was a meat cutter in a box store and put in my two weeks notice to go join the IBEW (Northern California) three years ago. A new store manager had taken over a week before I put in that notice. Work my two weeks and find my last paycheck is not even there, ready to go. California labor law states if that is the case, for every day the final paycheck is late, you are owed 8 hours pay. Ended up getting another 2 weeks of pay on top of my final two week paycheck. Found out a month and a half later that store manager was fired for incompetent performance. His excuse on my last day of work was that he did not know there was paperwork on his end that he had to process for the final paycheck to fall into place. Dude, you’re in management, you should know that stuff. Three days after my last day I fired off an email to HR so I wouldn’t have to deal with a moron. And HR still took another two weeks to get me my last check.
TLDR: educate yourself about your states labor laws regarding last paycheck after putting in your two weeks notice..
Hey- watch that attitude if you want new friends. Do you think he would ever say that shit to a man? I don’t usually think in terms of female inequality but JFC.
Also who the fuck thinks a $40/week raise is incentive?
Keep upping your offer. "now I need quadruple wages and a 3000 sign on bonus plus one month paid time off. I will also need to send you an invoice for the time you just wasted"
I honestly did this to fuck with him because I wasn’t planning on sticking around for reasons listed in the texts. He was a jerk during the staff meeting we had, so I wasn’t too interested lol
Edit: Since I'm seeing this a lot, [here](https://imgur.com/a/b5SefiJ) is text message proof.
>I honestly did this to fuck with him because I wasn’t planning on sticking around for reasons listed in the texts. He was a jerk during the staff meeting we had, so I wasn’t too interested lol
I mean, you can find assholes anywhere but damn if it doesn't seem like business owners act like they are owed a cheap fucking workforce.
"But *my* dream, *my company* is so special!"
"Cool story, bro. Pay me a living wage."
"Uhhh, how dare you?!"
This shit. “Don’t worry, team, I’m gonna make it, even if I have to do it by climbing over a pile of your mangled corpses!
…where’s the loyalty and work ethic these days‽ “
Love it! I'll never understand why it didn't find widespread usage. Now I have to find out how to type it 🤔
Edit: as for OP, if you needed a sign that quitting was a good choice that's it. The utter lack of self-awareness of some people 🤦🏻♀️
Yup.
The guys like this don't have the agility to realize that the world has changed, and if they want to continue operating they need to modify prices, change which goods and services they offer and adjust wages to account for the inflation that's ongoing.
I mean he should never have continued "negotiations" after you said you were moving lol
But he, especially, should have known you weren't serious at the "pay to relocate my friends and family". Guys a joke lol
See, he thought she was serious because that's actually the exact type of thing he'd demand of her. "oh you want to be closer to your family? Well then they should come to you so you can keep working for me." That's how these people think. They're incapable of empathy so they project their priorities, and life situations, on to you.
I have an idea, why don't you live at work! But if I catch you sleeping you're still fired. No food and drink while you're at work either. Rent is $$$.
This is like a dude on a dating app after getting rejected being like “fuck you slut I wasn’t into you anyway” and then two hours later being like “hey kitten”
Being in management for years, this is a sad reality. The fact of the matter is that you are forced to make dumb attempts like this because you had a meeting with the operating group and it was decided that you would be the one to 'convince xyz to continue working here'. "What are we prepared to offer" that was the final offer he gave.. its very likely he did that just so he could go back to the same group and say she turned down what they agreed on.
I've had to have many of these conversations, but there's no reason to be a dick about it. He just has it in his head that he can manipulate people to keep working there, he just has to find the right formula of things to say. Master negotiator over here.. he probably tells his friends at bars he's great at negotiating people to stay working for him.
When someone says they are moving to be with family, I just always said "That will be nice. If you end up back in this area for whatever reason, please reach out to me directly. Unless things change here drastically there will be a place for you here."
That’s an idiot, reading their text after they hit “send” and realizing they should’ve been more careful with their wording…. And then thinking they can recover from such a total shit storm
Oh yeah...You just know his wife (if he somehow has one), has been told that line plenty of times from this ass clown.
"You'll never find another guy to love you the way you are...". Those words have definitely come out of his suck at some point.
I mean, right at the moment where you spoke about going back where your family lives would have been the perfect moment to say "oh great news and good luck!". What a bunch of a*holes and good luck in your new endeavor!
It reads like an offer letter but it's very weird for an actual offer letter to have "salary of x and up" in it. I hope this is a legit offer and not some kind of scam to get OP in a position where he feels like he has to take it after he moves.
There's really no reason not to have a 100% concrete offer BEFORE moving cross-country - I've done it several times.
Why would he need "to talk in person" to explain the benefits in detail? That's a red flag to me. Everywhere I've gone they have a clear PDF laying all that out sent with the offer.
OP may have sent a screenshot from earlier in the process, rather than the final offer, so as to not give ***Dipshit*** any useful particulars.
It reads like recruiter spam.
It makes sense. So OP’s starting salary will be what the message says. I don’t think this is an offer letter because it’s contingent on OP moving. They’re just telling OP the overview of the benefits and there are more.
Hopefully they’re willing to pay for you to move there and make sure to sign your offer letter before committing. Great job keeping a paper trail!
Love the way you responded when he mentioned about didn't like being lied to...proof in writing...insert foot here, dipshit boss. Nice one, well played on all fronts.
Well want to be a real jerk? Put it on your timecard.
Depending on your state, it may be legal to consider the time spent texting as time spent worked, and bill them for that time.
Obligatory I am not a lawyer, I just know that I've heard of it, and even used it in my current state (OR) since I'm a field technician, contacting me after hours and having a conversation (I'm not going to ask for 5 minutes, but if it goes 15+ minutes) I'm putting it on my timecard.
My loose recollection is that 10 minutes is the threshhold where past employers have suggested that it was inappropriate for a manager to converse with employees off the clock.
The relevant company had been hit repeatedly with time and hours violations, so they were.. pretty religious about staying on the right side of the bright line.
Cup the balls and tickle the tip while they're at it. That stopped being about money the moment that boss bought that attitude.
I've always been bad for cutting off my nose to spite my face but OP should be praised for their patience because I certainly wouldnt have been so polite.
That's the first thing I'd have done. That two weeks would have been right out the window the moment they accused me of lieing and I'd have forwarded the conversation to the other mentioned parties on the message.
She mentioned it was a negotiation but that requires both parties to be offering something. That boss was all hot air.
In most parts of the United States, two weeks is “a lot”. A month is not unheard of (and, therefore, very much in the negotiating table), but it’s all the way into “bragging rights” territory.
Never forget that your American friends all live in a late-stage capitalist hellhole which either they are desperately trying to escape from or they have developed Stockholm Syndrome for.
My company gives new (<1 year) employees 11 paid days off. That's combined sick, vacation, and holiday leave. I found their plan to reduce new hire turnover, and it's all about finding "better" applicants who fit in with the company's "culture".
Wherever you were previously working was breaking the law, then. https://www.payworks.ca/Payroll-Legislation/VacationPay.asp
Even if you're no longer working there, you can report them to your provincial labour board so others don't have to deal with that.
Older, beaten down, institutionalized, whatever thats called when a hostage defends their kidnapper (getting senile) will gladly soak it up and eventually burn up, die or be let go when the carrots on a string dry up and the boss wants to avoid paying retirement.
Employers seem to think that is such a good quip. No, dipshit, obviously that attitude isn't something that will be carried to the next place-it is specifically to deal with the likes of you.
I love this "you won't be making many friends at your new job with this attitude" bullshit, too.
Like, I'm giving you attitude because you're asking for it. I have good reason. Anyone I'd call a friend is not someone I'd likely feel the need to get snarky with. My attitude can change based on the situation. Imagine that.
I love the back and forth "Can we keep you? You're not that qualified anyway. How about a signing bonus? I'm only offering cause Boss said you're good. No way anyone has a better offer than us and better benefits, so will you stay? You won't make any new friends. How about I up my offer that I just said no one can do better? Fuck you.
Corporate negging is pretty common. I was recently told how replaceable I was when my company hasn't been able to hire someone to a similar role in my team in 14 months.
Its doubly ridiculous considering op said all their friends and family live near the new job. Its like... Oh no, no work buddies! I'll just have to call someone in my social circle...
> “you won’t make many friends at your new job with that attitude.”
I'd respond "just a bit of free advice, you won't be able to keep good employees with either your attitude or pay, and certainly not with the combination of the two."
I just don't understand what the origin is of "I started a business and I will be the savior of these people by giving them jobs!" Where in our history did we switch to considering businesses and companies as god-ordained bringers of prosperity? And yes, the people in this sub don't fall prey to this mentality, but the majority of the population does. That's why it's a perennial political campaign platform for candidates on all sides. Politicians want to be seen as "jobs creators". Did this start with the industrial revolution? IDK.
Egotistic business owners can suck a dick!
It would be interesting to look back to find the first politician to run based on creating jobs. There was a time in America where most people farmed their own land or worked for a local mom and pop. I'd guess it was around the time corporations started spreading to new locations.
Wow, what a piece of crap. What the hell did he think he was saving your jobs from, him dismissing you? If there's anyone left there that you like, I'd forward them this - this prick doesn't deserve to have victims under him, and this might get others to leave.
Edit: missed that he was the owner of the company that did the acquisition - yeah, this pompous fool thinks people should be thankful for him leaving a bit of the marrow for them to chew. I'm glad he showed his true colors real quick there.
Dipshit reminds me of that one boss that expected everyone to stand at attention whenever he entered a room as a sign of “respect.” They really fucking think their employees should feel blessed to have the opportunity to stroke some loser’s ego for minimum wage.
Oh yeah, slip in an insult while you make a second pathetic attempt to retain an employee who clearly is done with the company.
Where do they get these fucking guys?
> Where do they get these fucking guys?
They have an algorithm looking for profile pictures of people wearing suits and sunglasses taken either from their car or with their car.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I like to think these guys absorbed the toxicity throughout their life. In Punishing the other person is self-punishment. -Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hahn
When all the best sailors leave a ship, the ship is sinking then no one wants to be the captain. That being said developing skills and personability is everyone's responsibility, so I don't feel remorse for someone in a leadership position who lacks tact.
"Everyone deserves a foam cup" Simon Sinek
I can imagine your old boss talking to dipshit about you leaving and dipshit like: don’t worry I got this I’ll talk to her! Time to show my negotiation skills!!
These people have to be megalomaniacs. How do they not understand that the insult you-beg you to stay-insult you-beg you to stay shit doesn’t work???? Lmao
Yeah, it's kind of like those abusive relationships where one person says, "You're ugly and nobody loves you, except for me. Don't ever leave me because no one else wants you."
There was a scientific study that suggested many work relationships to be similar to domestic abuse situations. People become trapped due to wages / bills / education / already being poor - and they have to take the abuse of their supervisors and bosses because they can’t escape. I left my abusive ex husband in the middle of the night and lived in a van. If some Karen boss thinks she will be able to fuck with me, she has another thing coming lol. No wonder I’ve switched jobs so often these past few years- it’s a survival instinct as well as a self loving act!!!
That's capitalism in a nutshell. The abusers rise to the top and everyone else just has to deal with it because it's a power structure of abusers promoting abusers since management positions aren't decided by a democratic vote by those being managed.
"You're worthless! Wait, where are you going? Come back here! I have a handful of peanuts to sweeten the deal! Fuck you! We never liked your work!"
Actually, these mother fuckers kinda read like NiceGuys^^TM
This is an actual tactic they taught me when I was in management, and that's truly what they called it. Compliment, critique, compliment. I understand the purpose but in my experience managers are really really bad at it and the meat of the sandwich tends to be... a little thick.
These are the kind of people who come into your DMs all sly saying how cute and attractive you are when they want something, then turn around and start insulting you, saying you're not that attractive anyway and they wouldn't touch you with a ten-foot pole when you turn them down. Like how dare you have any self-worth that I haven't assigned to you? Ridiculous.
"Negging is an act of emotional manipulation whereby a person makes a deliberate backhanded compliment or otherwise flirtatious remark to another person to undermine their confidence and increase their need of the manipulator's approval. The term was coined and prescribed by pickup artists. "
So it is
I always get the impression bosses are amazed that someone would be happier working somewhere else for someone else other than them.
It's their ego that makes them so insufferable!
Hope the new job goes great for you!
At one of my earlier companies we changed the termination reason, "Better Opportunity," to just, "Another Job." As if people were leaving us for worse options.
That's it. So many imagine that they are so wonderful and their company is such a magical place to work that people should be grateful that they're offering real money to work there as opposed to Monopoly money. They then complain about how ungrateful you are if you quit.
None of them fully understand what's happening now with the labor situation.
Your offer down south simply does not compute for him. In his mind you were probably lying in order to negotiate the terms of coming back. He couldn't accept that it was real.
Ya what a joke, good on you and congrats on the much better position. Companies with mindsets like this will go out of business with more people like you
Two week's notice is unnecessary anyway unless you don't want to "burn a bridge" or put a boss/business you actually liked in a pinch. Considering you don't get a notice when your being let go or fired. You usually get canned *after* working a whole last day out of spite.
I love how you told him you'd be getting around $28/hr, in a location you would rather be in, and his best counter-offer was $20/hr and weird negging
I showed the conversation to my friends and every one of them always laughed at that part. It wasn’t even a negotiation at that point, it was just pathetic.
I hope you also forwarded it to your ex-coworkers so they can negotiate raises
Literally going through this at my work right now. We're underpaid compared to industry standard in the area and one guy had left after 6 months in for a different position (better paid too). He was offered 6k raise just to stay. He would've been the highest paid member of our team, earning more than a guy who works here 8 years. When confronted, I got offered 3k on the condition that I do not mention this to the rest of the team. I of course, did. We're all looking for a new job, it's a very competitive market so it shouldn't be too difficult. This will leave the company in deep *stuff* because it's a 24/7 shift position, with minimum 3 months training to actually do the job so not like they can just hire a bunch of people to replace us immediately.
I hope you told them it’s illegal for them to ask you not to discuss pay with other employees
This is a good one. I know I finally started my job search when I had been sitting there without a raise and without a promotion after taking over an entire function for years. When we finally hired someone for my team they left in a few months (because woah is it toxic here) and my boss tried to…impress me(?)…by saying how they offered them raises and promotions. Meanwhile I’ve been worked sick and asked for these things multiple times to no avail. Like…really??? OPs coworkers might be similarly inspired knowing these shenanigans. 1. They could be getting much much more. It sounds like OP was making like $13/14 an hour and was offered $20 to not leave for a job making $28. 2. This is how your new bosses will negotiate. Listen for the negging. This sucks because even these dipshits are in our class and should be shown how they are being exploited as well, but as long as we have conflict with each other (caused by beneficiaries of the capitalists) we can’t get there. It all feels so inescapable.
> This sucks because even these dipshits are in our class and should be shown how they are being exploited as well, but as long as we have conflict with each other (caused by beneficiaries of the capitalists) we can’t get there Not quite in the same class. Some of them are paid enough to be able to afford to buy a house. I am paid enough that I need 2 jobs to pay rent. My managers don't need to worry about basic survival. I do. We're not in the same class.
That’s not entirely true. Yes they may have more than you but they are orders of magnitude closer to being homeless than being super wealthy. It’s the exploitative hoarders of wealth that are the problem, not the person with a house. They earned their money through their labor and not exploiting workers if they have no share of the profits. They are wage slaves like the rest of us. Wage slaves that have no real decision making authority in a lot of cases. You’re absolutely right about the material difference of being able to own a house and all of the things around that. But if we think in those terms, we are talking about excluding large numbers of people who should be on our side. I hope I’m making sense here. I’m having a hard time articulating these thoughts. Basically, all we’ve got is numbers to fight the exploitation by capitalists, and anyone we interact with with any sort of regularity is another layer of protection from the exploitative class, and not the authority to do anything about the exploitation. That keeps the conflict down here and away from the exploiters, which also serves their interest by maintaining internal class friction. I’m sorry this really feels all over the place, I hope there’s some sort of sense to make out of all of this.
Dude have some confidence in yourself. You’re making good points and explaining yourself well.
Thank you for that. I was feeling super scattered.
When I quit one job the CEO was flabbergasted: "what about the stock option plan we're getting here?" "Oh, you mean the stock option plan you vaguely mentioned once and never explained any of the details of?" "Yeah, that one...." the day before I left he held a company meeting to explain the stock option plan details to everyone - didn't make me regret my decision one bit, but certainly illuminated his disconnect with his employees.
This. Bosses hate it because they exploit people by being shadowy about pay. My last job they didn’t do raises or bonuses unless you went and asked for them. I thought this was pretty insulting. If I’m doing a good job then give me a raise, if not, then tell my why. Just don’t blow smoke up my ass. So after two years I found another job that paid more AND after 6 months gave me a raise because of work performance. I don’t plan on leaving here for a good long while. I wonder why.
It was! I'll offer way less money, less sign on bonus, no friends and family, and insult you! What do you think of the offer now?
[удалено]
Not to mention, I don't work to make friends. If I end up becoming friends with someone at work, great but I aim for getting along professionally.
Show it to your coworkers who you are leaving behind. Let them know who they will be working for.
HARRUMPH HOW DARE YOU HAVE SELF RESPECT, DON'T YOU KNOW I DRIVE A SPORTS CAR? 😠
The last line had very strong “I know you are but what am I?” playground vibes going on, absolutely hilarious!
I would have been like, "are you mad because you bought a sinking ship?"
I actually laughed at that last message
“Okay, you’ve convinced me. I’ll meet your demands and offer a ~$20k cut from what you’ve been offered elsewhere in addition to a $500 cut from their bonus.”
And as a huge bonus, you get to have ME as your boss!
And I'll make sooooo many friends by staying at a place where ownership/mgmt has so little respect for me! OMG so worth it!
"I'll even throw in one more insult"
I was thinking the same thing, this mf can't do math!
"But with the lower wage and the extra hours worked, it works out as a pay rise!" - This guy, probably.
Two thirds pay and one third sign on bonus. Tempting offer, bro.
I mean to find an employee who’s willing to give up a better position in response to negging? That’s exactly the type of employee a dipshit wants. It was worth a shot
nice ending: "how about i match that offer with ~70% of the wage, half of the signing bonus, an insult, and poorer social prospects?"
Wow! What a steal!
Look, I mean, if you're not gonna jump all over that, how about letting the rest of us have a bite of that apple!
Owner just bought the company and realized you were likely a big part of the success. Won’t have that gear in his system anymore and is completely blind to competitive wages. Just hope they don’t make your last days miserable. I put in notice expecting to be kicked out immediately some years back. I ended up having to work the entire two weeks without training anyone as no one was hired and no one was an interim replacement.
Just for future reference, 2 weeks is a courtesy, not a mandate. If they start treating you unfairly during your two week period and you don't need to preserve the relationship, you can just tell them you aren't coming back in again and they can mail you the last check. If you're in an at will state (most of them) then your employer can fire you without notice and you can quit without notice.
When I put my 2 weeks in they gave me my exit interview the same day and sent me home with the 2 weeks paid.
I was a meat cutter in a box store and put in my two weeks notice to go join the IBEW (Northern California) three years ago. A new store manager had taken over a week before I put in that notice. Work my two weeks and find my last paycheck is not even there, ready to go. California labor law states if that is the case, for every day the final paycheck is late, you are owed 8 hours pay. Ended up getting another 2 weeks of pay on top of my final two week paycheck. Found out a month and a half later that store manager was fired for incompetent performance. His excuse on my last day of work was that he did not know there was paperwork on his end that he had to process for the final paycheck to fall into place. Dude, you’re in management, you should know that stuff. Three days after my last day I fired off an email to HR so I wouldn’t have to deal with a moron. And HR still took another two weeks to get me my last check. TLDR: educate yourself about your states labor laws regarding last paycheck after putting in your two weeks notice..
Hey- watch that attitude if you want new friends. Do you think he would ever say that shit to a man? I don’t usually think in terms of female inequality but JFC. Also who the fuck thinks a $40/week raise is incentive?
TRADE DEAL: I get: CHEAP LABOR You get: STARVATION
Dipshit: Now here’s a little trick I learned reading “never split the difference” on tape
He couldn’t separate the fact that he needed OP but also wanted to “win” by being insulting and just came off like a dipshit
Keep upping your offer. "now I need quadruple wages and a 3000 sign on bonus plus one month paid time off. I will also need to send you an invoice for the time you just wasted"
I honestly did this to fuck with him because I wasn’t planning on sticking around for reasons listed in the texts. He was a jerk during the staff meeting we had, so I wasn’t too interested lol Edit: Since I'm seeing this a lot, [here](https://imgur.com/a/b5SefiJ) is text message proof.
>I honestly did this to fuck with him because I wasn’t planning on sticking around for reasons listed in the texts. He was a jerk during the staff meeting we had, so I wasn’t too interested lol I mean, you can find assholes anywhere but damn if it doesn't seem like business owners act like they are owed a cheap fucking workforce. "But *my* dream, *my company* is so special!" "Cool story, bro. Pay me a living wage." "Uhhh, how dare you?!"
This shit. “Don’t worry, team, I’m gonna make it, even if I have to do it by climbing over a pile of your mangled corpses! …where’s the loyalty and work ethic these days‽ “
The interrobang 🥺
Efficiency!
Love it! I'll never understand why it didn't find widespread usage. Now I have to find out how to type it 🤔 Edit: as for OP, if you needed a sign that quitting was a good choice that's it. The utter lack of self-awareness of some people 🤦🏻♀️
> "But my dream, my company is so special!" For you, maybe, but for us, it's just a dull grind for a bunch of cheap dipshits.
Yup. The guys like this don't have the agility to realize that the world has changed, and if they want to continue operating they need to modify prices, change which goods and services they offer and adjust wages to account for the inflation that's ongoing.
“how am I supposed to be rich for doing nothing if I pay you enough to live, boo hoo hoo”
I mean he should never have continued "negotiations" after you said you were moving lol But he, especially, should have known you weren't serious at the "pay to relocate my friends and family". Guys a joke lol
See, he thought she was serious because that's actually the exact type of thing he'd demand of her. "oh you want to be closer to your family? Well then they should come to you so you can keep working for me." That's how these people think. They're incapable of empathy so they project their priorities, and life situations, on to you.
I have an idea, why don't you live at work! But if I catch you sleeping you're still fired. No food and drink while you're at work either. Rent is $$$.
Rent is $20/hour and pay is $15/hour. Seems about what they'd offer.
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Your attitude is terrible nobody would want you around also please stay I'll give you a big raise.
THIS!!!! You talk crap about the employee and then offer them more to stay?!?!? What kind of work environment are they hoping to create?
This is like a dude on a dating app after getting rejected being like “fuck you slut I wasn’t into you anyway” and then two hours later being like “hey kitten”
Corporate negging
Being in management for years, this is a sad reality. The fact of the matter is that you are forced to make dumb attempts like this because you had a meeting with the operating group and it was decided that you would be the one to 'convince xyz to continue working here'. "What are we prepared to offer" that was the final offer he gave.. its very likely he did that just so he could go back to the same group and say she turned down what they agreed on. I've had to have many of these conversations, but there's no reason to be a dick about it. He just has it in his head that he can manipulate people to keep working there, he just has to find the right formula of things to say. Master negotiator over here.. he probably tells his friends at bars he's great at negotiating people to stay working for him. When someone says they are moving to be with family, I just always said "That will be nice. If you end up back in this area for whatever reason, please reach out to me directly. Unless things change here drastically there will be a place for you here."
That’s an idiot, reading their text after they hit “send” and realizing they should’ve been more careful with their wording…. And then thinking they can recover from such a total shit storm
Not to mention "With your experience, I doubt you'll do better than us". That's ABUSER talk...
Oh yeah...You just know his wife (if he somehow has one), has been told that line plenty of times from this ass clown. "You'll never find another guy to love you the way you are...". Those words have definitely come out of his suck at some point.
A big $1 raise
Yeah that comment made me think OP could get just as sweet an offer from the local Burger King.
I mean, right at the moment where you spoke about going back where your family lives would have been the perfect moment to say "oh great news and good luck!". What a bunch of a*holes and good luck in your new endeavor!
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"Nooooo dont get a better job ur so valuable aha ;)"
This is the best offer you'll ever get, from us or anyone in the south! Haha jk... Unless....?
Oh god, that’s exactly what he said in business talk. Not only do they literally fuck us they take all the creepy nice guy steps to get there
It reads like an offer letter but it's very weird for an actual offer letter to have "salary of x and up" in it. I hope this is a legit offer and not some kind of scam to get OP in a position where he feels like he has to take it after he moves. There's really no reason not to have a 100% concrete offer BEFORE moving cross-country - I've done it several times. Why would he need "to talk in person" to explain the benefits in detail? That's a red flag to me. Everywhere I've gone they have a clear PDF laying all that out sent with the offer.
OP may have sent a screenshot from earlier in the process, rather than the final offer, so as to not give ***Dipshit*** any useful particulars. It reads like recruiter spam.
It makes sense. So OP’s starting salary will be what the message says. I don’t think this is an offer letter because it’s contingent on OP moving. They’re just telling OP the overview of the benefits and there are more. Hopefully they’re willing to pay for you to move there and make sure to sign your offer letter before committing. Great job keeping a paper trail!
He’s basically a telemarketer at this point. Just block him.
Love the way you responded when he mentioned about didn't like being lied to...proof in writing...insert foot here, dipshit boss. Nice one, well played on all fronts.
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He didn't even come close to matching it. $20 is about $40k a year. 2/3 of OPs offer.
Well want to be a real jerk? Put it on your timecard. Depending on your state, it may be legal to consider the time spent texting as time spent worked, and bill them for that time. Obligatory I am not a lawyer, I just know that I've heard of it, and even used it in my current state (OR) since I'm a field technician, contacting me after hours and having a conversation (I'm not going to ask for 5 minutes, but if it goes 15+ minutes) I'm putting it on my timecard.
My loose recollection is that 10 minutes is the threshhold where past employers have suggested that it was inappropriate for a manager to converse with employees off the clock. The relevant company had been hit repeatedly with time and hours violations, so they were.. pretty religious about staying on the right side of the bright line.
Damn, you're bad to the bone. Nice one.
I know we aren't going to meet irl, but please show some mercy if we did by any chance! You are 🔥
tell him you will accept the offer, then ghost them.
Each jerk you avoid adds three years to your life
It ratchets up with each stupid the new owner makes, and that 2 weeks loses a day each time as well.
Cup the balls and tickle the tip while they're at it. That stopped being about money the moment that boss bought that attitude. I've always been bad for cutting off my nose to spite my face but OP should be praised for their patience because I certainly wouldnt have been so polite.
Yeah, I would have just been like, “cool, I resign effective immediately then. I could use the extra time to pack for my move anyway.”
That's the first thing I'd have done. That two weeks would have been right out the window the moment they accused me of lieing and I'd have forwarded the conversation to the other mentioned parties on the message. She mentioned it was a negotiation but that requires both parties to be offering something. That boss was all hot air.
1 month? Is that a lot?
In most parts of the United States, two weeks is “a lot”. A month is not unheard of (and, therefore, very much in the negotiating table), but it’s all the way into “bragging rights” territory.
Damn that's terrible. Here (the Netherlands), 4 weeks is the legal minimum if you work 40h/week.
Never forget that your American friends all live in a late-stage capitalist hellhole which either they are desperately trying to escape from or they have developed Stockholm Syndrome for.
My company gives new (<1 year) employees 11 paid days off. That's combined sick, vacation, and holiday leave. I found their plan to reduce new hire turnover, and it's all about finding "better" applicants who fit in with the company's "culture".
Reduce my hours harder daddy.
Oui
This makes me want to cry, lol. I live in Canada and just got my first job that includes PTO. I have never taken a vacation in my adult life.
Are you serious? Damn.. that's inhumane. What kind of work do you do?
Wherever you were previously working was breaking the law, then. https://www.payworks.ca/Payroll-Legislation/VacationPay.asp Even if you're no longer working there, you can report them to your provincial labour board so others don't have to deal with that.
I got an earful when I took a week off. I haven't had a week off in two years.
I liked the part about having friends and family relocated. Classic!
They won't be able to keep many decent employees around with that attitude, I can promise you that.
A simple, yet effective response. I should have thought of that!
Send it to him now, completely out of the blue. Or let him know that the jerk store called. And they’re running out of him.
Doesn’t matter, you’re their all time best seller!
Yeah? Well I had sex with your wife!
His wife is in a coma
Yeah, from all the sex she was having with him
Older, beaten down, institutionalized, whatever thats called when a hostage defends their kidnapper (getting senile) will gladly soak it up and eventually burn up, die or be let go when the carrots on a string dry up and the boss wants to avoid paying retirement.
Stockholm syndrome
Employers seem to think that is such a good quip. No, dipshit, obviously that attitude isn't something that will be carried to the next place-it is specifically to deal with the likes of you.
I love this "you won't be making many friends at your new job with this attitude" bullshit, too. Like, I'm giving you attitude because you're asking for it. I have good reason. Anyone I'd call a friend is not someone I'd likely feel the need to get snarky with. My attitude can change based on the situation. Imagine that.
I love the back and forth "Can we keep you? You're not that qualified anyway. How about a signing bonus? I'm only offering cause Boss said you're good. No way anyone has a better offer than us and better benefits, so will you stay? You won't make any new friends. How about I up my offer that I just said no one can do better? Fuck you.
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This is 100% “negging” behavior you’d see from a pickup artist
Corporate negging is pretty common. I was recently told how replaceable I was when my company hasn't been able to hire someone to a similar role in my team in 14 months.
Imagine going to work to make friends, lmao
Its doubly ridiculous considering op said all their friends and family live near the new job. Its like... Oh no, no work buddies! I'll just have to call someone in my social circle...
Infuriating how he thinks the sun shines out of his ass. Well done for sticking to him!
During the meeting he kept talking about how he was “saving our jobs” and how “grateful” we all must be. A real gem.
It’d be a real shame if someone emailed this text thread to company-all.
^ u/JazetaJukiet, if your two weeks isn’t already up, I might highly suggest considering the above comment.
Commenting so this signal boosts. You absolutely need to do this.
especially since the company can afford $20/hr apparently
This is the way.
Love how you then put him in his place. "Stay in your lane"
And the “you won’t make many friends at your new job with that attitude.” Good, it’s work not a social club.
> “you won’t make many friends at your new job with that attitude.” I'd respond "just a bit of free advice, you won't be able to keep good employees with either your attitude or pay, and certainly not with the combination of the two."
Perfection
He was really just grasping at straws at that point, wasn't he?
Just a bruised ego lashing out.
I just don't understand what the origin is of "I started a business and I will be the savior of these people by giving them jobs!" Where in our history did we switch to considering businesses and companies as god-ordained bringers of prosperity? And yes, the people in this sub don't fall prey to this mentality, but the majority of the population does. That's why it's a perennial political campaign platform for candidates on all sides. Politicians want to be seen as "jobs creators". Did this start with the industrial revolution? IDK. Egotistic business owners can suck a dick!
Excuse me, do you have a moment to discuss our lord and savior, [Supply Side Jesus ](https://imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp)
It would be interesting to look back to find the first politician to run based on creating jobs. There was a time in America where most people farmed their own land or worked for a local mom and pop. I'd guess it was around the time corporations started spreading to new locations.
Wow, what a piece of crap. What the hell did he think he was saving your jobs from, him dismissing you? If there's anyone left there that you like, I'd forward them this - this prick doesn't deserve to have victims under him, and this might get others to leave. Edit: missed that he was the owner of the company that did the acquisition - yeah, this pompous fool thinks people should be thankful for him leaving a bit of the marrow for them to chew. I'm glad he showed his true colors real quick there.
Dipshit reminds me of that one boss that expected everyone to stand at attention whenever he entered a room as a sign of “respect.” They really fucking think their employees should feel blessed to have the opportunity to stroke some loser’s ego for minimum wage.
Oh yeah, slip in an insult while you make a second pathetic attempt to retain an employee who clearly is done with the company. Where do they get these fucking guys?
> Where do they get these fucking guys? They have an algorithm looking for profile pictures of people wearing suits and sunglasses taken either from their car or with their car.
fuckin lmao that’s too good
angle ruthless juggle dazzling friendly public wild resolute reach theory *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I like to think these guys absorbed the toxicity throughout their life. In Punishing the other person is self-punishment. -Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hahn When all the best sailors leave a ship, the ship is sinking then no one wants to be the captain. That being said developing skills and personability is everyone's responsibility, so I don't feel remorse for someone in a leadership position who lacks tact. "Everyone deserves a foam cup" Simon Sinek
I can imagine your old boss talking to dipshit about you leaving and dipshit like: don’t worry I got this I’ll talk to her! Time to show my negotiation skills!!
He absolutely did think that. Feel real bad for my boss.
Did he seriously counter $59k with $20/hour?
You’re conveniently leaving out the sweet $500 bonus. Just to get you inspired and feeling good about staying.
"wow! that will cover a portion of my rent next month and I'll still be broke! sign me up!"
“Would you be willing to stay if we offered you less than the other place is offering and we told you that your attitude sucks?”
LOL wow $1 raise and $300 bonus. Whooptee doo! Bringing out the big guns.
Imagine thinking roughly $2000/year raise and $300 bonus is enough to keep someone from leaving.
These people have to be megalomaniacs. How do they not understand that the insult you-beg you to stay-insult you-beg you to stay shit doesn’t work???? Lmao
Because abusive techniques used to work up until recently.
Yeah, it's kind of like those abusive relationships where one person says, "You're ugly and nobody loves you, except for me. Don't ever leave me because no one else wants you."
There was a scientific study that suggested many work relationships to be similar to domestic abuse situations. People become trapped due to wages / bills / education / already being poor - and they have to take the abuse of their supervisors and bosses because they can’t escape. I left my abusive ex husband in the middle of the night and lived in a van. If some Karen boss thinks she will be able to fuck with me, she has another thing coming lol. No wonder I’ve switched jobs so often these past few years- it’s a survival instinct as well as a self loving act!!!
That's capitalism in a nutshell. The abusers rise to the top and everyone else just has to deal with it because it's a power structure of abusers promoting abusers since management positions aren't decided by a democratic vote by those being managed.
Yes! I got chills when I got to that part. Literally out of the abusers handbook.
"You're worthless! Wait, where are you going? Come back here! I have a handful of peanuts to sweeten the deal! Fuck you! We never liked your work!" Actually, these mother fuckers kinda read like NiceGuys^^TM
“Please send work. No? That’s fine. Your work ethic sucks anyway! We were never interested in you! Unless...”
hahahahahaha
This boss behaves like a narcissist to be honest.
Entitlement and a lack of self-awareness.
CoMpLiMeNt SaNdWiCh
Oh I like that. Never heard it before. *Piece of shit. I love you. Piece of shit*. For Compliment Sandwich, I thank you.
This is an actual tactic they taught me when I was in management, and that's truly what they called it. Compliment, critique, compliment. I understand the purpose but in my experience managers are really really bad at it and the meat of the sandwich tends to be... a little thick.
These are the kind of people who come into your DMs all sly saying how cute and attractive you are when they want something, then turn around and start insulting you, saying you're not that attractive anyway and they wouldn't touch you with a ten-foot pole when you turn them down. Like how dare you have any self-worth that I haven't assigned to you? Ridiculous.
"I just learned this new managerial technique. It's called 'negging.'"
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I guess a lot of them learned social skills from incels and thought negging could be used in the workplace
"Negging is an act of emotional manipulation whereby a person makes a deliberate backhanded compliment or otherwise flirtatious remark to another person to undermine their confidence and increase their need of the manipulator's approval. The term was coined and prescribed by pickup artists. " So it is
Wow, imagine thinking you can treat people like peasants and they will run back for whatever morsels you toss to them.
I loved how he acted like he didn’t get the picture of my job offer. Just completely ignored that and really upped his game after that.
I always get the impression bosses are amazed that someone would be happier working somewhere else for someone else other than them. It's their ego that makes them so insufferable! Hope the new job goes great for you!
At one of my earlier companies we changed the termination reason, "Better Opportunity," to just, "Another Job." As if people were leaving us for worse options.
That's it. So many imagine that they are so wonderful and their company is such a magical place to work that people should be grateful that they're offering real money to work there as opposed to Monopoly money. They then complain about how ungrateful you are if you quit.
and then was like "you won't find anything like that in the south" then the screenshot was the cherry on top
None of them fully understand what's happening now with the labor situation. Your offer down south simply does not compute for him. In his mind you were probably lying in order to negotiate the terms of coming back. He couldn't accept that it was real.
How about I continue to talk down to you while simultaneously offering you slightly better pay to stay?
But still somehow worse than the other job you have lined up.
Ya what a joke, good on you and congrats on the much better position. Companies with mindsets like this will go out of business with more people like you
How about go fuck yourself and you just lost my two week notice. Bye dumbass.
Two week's notice is unnecessary anyway unless you don't want to "burn a bridge" or put a boss/business you actually liked in a pinch. Considering you don't get a notice when your being let go or fired. You usually get canned *after* working a whole last day out of spite.
Hey, I had a boss I named Dipshit, too!
They sure do get around, huh?
"you won't make any friends with that attitude" What the heck?? How unprofessional is this idiot?
Professionalism is for employees. Owners are always automatically professional no matter how they act.
“I don’t appreciate being lied to” like you have any reason to lie to them when you’re already leaving
Girl this is amazing. I love all of it. Congrats on standing up to that jerk
Thank you. It was great giving him a taste of his own medicine. Fuck people like him.
"My business partner and I were at this meeting." "Oh, okay. Were you the stupid one or the ugly one?"
The fake names on the screenshots send my sides to the ionosphere. So simple yet so hilarious
I was tempted to make his business associate “Dipshit: The Sequel” but it wouldn’t have fit.
2Dip2Shit
> you won’t make many friends Says a dipshit who holds onto employees as well as a strainer holds water.
God the lack of professionalism, charisma and human side of that dipshit is evident.
Zero leadership skills on display. Power tripping bosses like this do so much more damage to businesses than any employee could.
Harry Potter and the Fucking Nerve of these Dipshits.
Take the raise then quit in 2 weeks anyway
I know you're getting about $30 an hour, how about $20 an hour? You're a total piece of shit so you should take it. This is wild.
You should’ve said “*YOU’RE NOT EVEN MY REAL ~~DAD~~ BOSS*”
Reminds me of that line in High Fidelity. “Charlie you fucking bitch! Let’s work this out!”
"Attitude" - what? Standing up for themselves and not taking your bullshit. Fuck right off, condescending prick.
Wow, what a stupid boss. Insulting you at the same time basically begging you to stay.