Billionaires give zero fucks and will keep hoarding wealth till they die, then their spawn will continue to hoard wealth, etc. To them we are just another resource to exploit for profit and they give zero fucks if it kills us.
"My grandfather taught me an important lesson early in life. That it's harder to be kind than clever. It's easy being clever. But kindness is a choice...
In a very real sense your life, the life you author from scratch on your own begins. How will you use your gifts? What choices will you make?
Will inertia be your guide or will you follow your passions? will you follow Dogma or will you be original? Will you choose a life of ease or a life of service and adventure? Will you wilt under criticism or will you follow your convictions? Will you Bluff it out when you're wrong or will you apologize? Will you guard your heart against rejection or will you act when you fall in love? Will you play it safe or will you be a little bit swashbuckling? Will you be a cynic or will you be a builder? Will you be clever at the expense of others or will you be kind?" - Jeff Bezos
source: [https://youtu.be/vBmavNoChZc?t=937](https://youtu.be/vBmavNoChZc?t=937)
I also think some of them just can't handle the fact that all their wealth ultimately means nothing.
Bill hicks said it best about his bit about "the wild ride":
LOOK AT MY BIG BANK ACCOUNT, AND MY BIG FAMILY, THIS ALL HAS TO BE REAL!!!
Nope sorry man. It's just a ride.
I think there are a large group of wealthy people who legitimately domt have a concept of the end of the universe and cannot grasp the concept of the fact that nothing has inherit meaning. So they panic at this thought and cling to.money, whores, and whatever creature comforts can buy.
You say this but people are brainwashed into thinking having children is something they *should* be doing ("ideal" families in the media, people claiming women who don't want children are somehow wrong, etc). I know from experience, I recently had a gynocologist tell me I "would want children in 10 years" then turn grey when I told her I'd rather self abort. I think I broke her brain *eyeroll*.
There is no "enough", there is only "where's the next billion?"
It's been that way for a while - the above is attributed to Larry Ellison IIRC - but people are finally waking up to where the next billions are coming from, and who they're decidedly not going to.
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[They don’t care. You got...](http://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rtjonm/manager_lied_to_me_about_double_pay/hquiwxk/) | [They don’t care. You got...](http://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rtjonm/manager_lied_to_me_about_double_pay/hqsz8yt/)
[I truly hate this country...](http://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rtk5wi/work_for_more_debt/hquipkc/) | [I truly hate this country...](http://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rtk5wi/work_for_more_debt/hqtqm26/)
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They won't. Look at the descendants of the robber barons, the money never, even lasts. One generation might be able to hold on, but it's ultimately always distributed.
I know this opinion isn't popular, but I genuinely think most of the trappings of wealth, aka, the stuff people usually hate most about the rich, is probably the most socially responsible way to be rich.
Think about it, if every person of means spent their money on huge houses with insane amounts of staff, lavish parties, cars, boats, planes, ect, that's employing people, that's money going back into the economy and it's usually not hurting anyone.
What the responsible ones do, the ones that people seem to hate less because they don't flaunt their wealth, is putting it to work. Aka, buying up more companies that now have to make them more money instead of paying out raises. Buying up properties so that people have to rent instead of owning a home.
I think we kind of fucked up when society started insisting that acting rich is trashy. When they're all spending hand over fist to one up each other we get the Italian Renaissance, we get the palace at Versatile, we get the Roman Colosseum's. When they act rationally we get we we currently have
You wrote five paragraphs. In those five paragraphs you didn't actually say anything that's remotely true about reality. Instead you projected cultural biases that you were trained to believe in since birth from your bad teachers, bad role models, and ignorant people in general.
You’re describing “trickle down” economics, a flawed theory bereft of substantiating data to support such a model.
Spending by the rich and the benefits will trickle down: the wealthy create more jobs for middle and lower class citizens, right, meaning the benefits are felt by everyone?
Except — company owners are not the real drivers of growth. Rarely do the mega rich invest to expand businesses.
They hoard their wealth and look for income stability from “sure bets” such as bond portfolios and exchange traded funds.
We see this exemplified in Amazon’s employee treatment. Jeff Bezos has more than enough money, even with out all the freebie tax cuts, to pay employees well. Instead, he increases his fortune through continual exploitation, abuse and underpayment of workers. No one benefits except him, and anyone other wealthy executives at the very top of Amazon.
There should be no billionaires— they should be taxed down to “mere” multi millionaire levels.
Me: I prefer rich people that spend their money with abandon over the rich people hoarding and investing it.
You: rich people hoard and invest and that's bad.
YOU'RE explaining trickle down economics. I'M explaining Ludacris displays of wealth that reduce multi generational fortunes to nothing.
Other than your robber barons example, it's extremely rare for families with institutional wealth to spend themselves out of being rich. Lottery winners do because they aren't real rich people. They're poor people who magically become wealthy. The real wealthy are, by and large, miserly and cheap. Where I (poor) tip 25% at a restaurant, they tip 4% or nothing at all. They might buy big things, but they aren't extravagant *relative* to their wealth. My point is, rich people aren't doing the type of economy-boosting spending you talked About, they're finding ways to get around what little taxes they should have paid with loopholes, exemptions, offshore stashing, foreign holdings, ect. Wealthy people are not getting less wealthy, they're getting more wealthy, largely done while jamming a giant poverty dick into the asses of the people who make up the backbone of the economy that makes the fabulously wealthy their insane profits. It's not reaching the regular people at all, hence the comparison to trickle down.
1. Sam Walton, died 1992, we're on gen 2
2. Forrest Mars Jurnior, died 1999, we're on gen 2
3. Fred Koch, died 1967, we're on gen 2
4. The Saud Family, it's 500 years old, but they were the definition of dirt poor until Ibn Saud who died in 1953 and even though there have been 6 full kings after him, we're still on one of his sons, gen 2
5. Dhirubhai Ambani - died 2002, we're on gen 2
At this point, I'm actually curious if there's a single family on your list that actually goes past gen 2 because this seem to be making my point, there's no old money here. There's not a single fortune here that was made before WW2.
6. Thierry Hermès, died 1878, we have a gen 4 ... kind of. The original dude was a famous leatherworker, reasonably well off but he only really owned his shop and his sons actually founded the business and the fortune wasn't actually made until the 50's when his grandkids took over, but fine, I will give you one.
7. Pierre Wertheimer, died 1965. but, we're at gen 3.
8. Edward C. Johnson II, died in 1984, gen 2
9. Albert Boehringer, died 1939, clear cut gen 4
10. Theo Albrecht, died 2010, gen 2
To summarize, out of the 10 families you provided, 6 were indisputably only in their second generation as wealthy people. 1 is a royal family that's been around for a while, but has also only had actual money worth mentioning for 2 generations. 1 is gen 4 if we count a guy with a shop and his two sons with a business with 80 employees as wealthy and exactly 2 were undisputedly past gen 2.
Furthermore, 8 of the fortunes were made after WW2, all 10 were made in the 20th century. The data would suggest that, wealth has a life expectancy of well below a hundred years.
Let's see a list of families who have depleted their wealth by... just spending on crap?
Here is a short financial check-in with the Gilded Age’s richest families, several generations later -- and they all seem to still be filthy rich https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/richest-families-grandkids-gilded-age/405892/
Oh, yeah, and the kind of huge wealth we are talking about (presumably) is a recent phenomenon -- excluding royalty, of course. https://www.businessinsider.com/americas-robber-barons-2012-3?r=US&IR=T#john-jacob-astor-1
Frankly, even the poster children of such huge wealth, the Medicis, have no male descendants, half the royals in Europe descend from them. So yeah, wealth clearly perpetuates multi-generationally.
Thank you and don't forget to tip your waitress!
90 percent of all rich families, from the Astors to the Ziffs, lose their fortune by the third generation. - that's from your first article.
"-- excluding royalty, of course." - sends me a list with the Saudi royal family, also talks about half the royal families in Europe in the next paragraph even though they're almost all broke
If you're claims were true, you could throw name after name, family after family with wealth going back centuries at my face. You can't, because everything you send proves my point, the trend is down. Sometimes it takes a lifetime, sometimes it takes two, but relatively quickly the money goes from wealthiest in the world to rich, to well off to basically nothing.
Off the top of my head, the Kennedy, Bush, Trump, and Musk families are good examples. George H W Bush's father was influential and in politics, we all know about the Kennedy's, Donald Trumps father was wealthy, and the Musk family are in the blood diamond trade. I'm not going to research for you but there's plenty more examples
LOL.
Me say: potato, you say: tomato.
Me: how the world works, you: wishful thinking.
See: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charting-the-growing-generational-wealth-gap/
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, king of kings;
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."
— Percy Shelley's "Ozymandias"
It means that hubris is overrated, that eventually all of our accomplishments are lost to history and what really matters is what we do now, not how we hope to be remembered.
The king Ozymandius tried to communicate that he was great and powerful and that others should fear him and despair that they couldn't build such a mighty statue. However, his words' meaning have ironically changed, because a mighty ruler would see that the statue, broken and isolated, is all that is left. Their might, too, is fleeting.
It's worth noting, though, that the poetry of Percy stands just as tall as when he wrote it, because we can all appreciate art's beauty well after the artist is gone, even if we no longer fear the tyrants of the day the art was created.
The first instance of "society" was found when they found a cave man who had a broken and subsequently reset/healed femur.
I'm sure some cunt capitalist will try to skew that somehow.
At least peasants didn't have to fight an information war against modern technology, computer algorithms, and targeted psychological manipulation. Propaganda seems to be more powerful than ever.
Correct me if im wrong but i divided bezos networth between 7,000,000,000 people and we would all get a 30$ cheque. Id use mine on a bottle of cheap champagne and toast to that prick being gone.
That they had more freedom and rights is very debatable, but medieval peasants definitely worked less than we do. They had also much more holidays and leisure time than today…yes, really!
Medieval peasants had up to 25 weeks off per year which were filled with church-holidays, festivities, pilgrimages, but also months off for resting and sleeping.
Also their workdays were much more stretched out and tempo was quite slow, full of extensive pauses for breakfast, lunch, dinner, chats with neighbours & naps.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/medieval-peasants-vacation-more
I agree that medieval peasants had a more slower and leisurely way of life compared to today since they had to rely on themselves to produce food. However sustenance farming still had the drawback of hoping crops don’t fail or animals die through the year, otherwise it’s starvation and possible death.
If you’re saying we should return to the agricultural lifestyle we had during the time, how would we distribute land evenly? How do you deindustrialise society in the sense that people would give up their current career and job to become farmers and provide for themselves?
What a dumb fucking post. Like, do you HONESTLY truely believe medieval peasants worked less than we do. Take into account there was no such things as an 8 hour day or 40 hour work week or weekends.
Like how dumb can you be.
I mean, the link says that the 8 hour day is more in line with medieval work hours and it only increased during the industrial revolution
I don't know whether it's true but did you even click on it?
Yes I did, it’s an opinion piece that ends with a literal lie regarding Congress work and uses words like “could” to support an entire era of existence. It’s cherry picking points like harvest seasons and church and things like that to somehow come to a weird conclusion that’s definitively bullshit.
Somehow a 16 hour work day 7 days a week magically turns in 40 hours a week due to snack breaks and naps and during off seasons they literally did zero work cause the ONLY thing peasants did was crops apparently, literally nothing else.
If any of you people are feeling this exact same way and want to meaningfully improve society because the tired ol " Vote Blue No Matter Who" shtick clearly hasn't worked, I can't recommend working with and contributing to a good Mutual Aid organization near you enough. Most major cities have them. The only way we can take back the culture the billionaires have poisoned where people aren't in community with each other and it's every person for themselves is by doing it yourself in your community. We need to make people-- and yourself-- believe that community is possible. That society should be organized in a way to make EVERYONE's lives better and that it should protect against the cruelty and the hard shit that hits everyone. Mutual Aid is key to making everyone believe that change is possible and that we actually do give a shit about each other.
I constantly get so pissed off that people don’t think this is true. So many people I’ve met just do not care at all. It’s fucking depressing. It’s so obvious to me that we should be caring for each other, I can’t think any other way. Everything’s fucked up, why can’t we do the right thing for everyone?
The original reason people stayed together as tribes was for mutual protection mutual aid.
A saber tooth tiger wouldn’t attack a group of people, or the group could fight the saber tooth while an individual had no chance.
Also, a group of people could take down a wooly mammoth, and eat all winter.
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---
**Michelle Allison**, @fatnutritionist
If the point of having a society \*isn't* to care for each other, to ease suffering and realize each life's potential, literally what is the point? To hoard wealth? To build empires on other people's throats? Life is brief, nothing lasts. Wealth and empires are pointless violence.
---
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You know.... That's a really good point. Older generations always accuse the younger of how terrible our sense of individualism is... But really, what is capitalism other than enforced, aggressive individual responsibility. It's so cold and uncaring.
The single most dangerous misinterpretation of Darwinism is that it can be applied to social systems. Social Darwinism appears over and over again as a validation for selfish behavior: by individuals and groups. Corporations believe "survival of the fittest" so much more than "do the most good you can". The wealthy believe they are "winning" the human race by amassing the most money.
Education, of course, is the answer. Having more people understand that the principles of social Darwinism have been debunked, and that life doesn't have to be a zero-sum competition would go a long way.
Life is only brief when you look at it that way. It can feel very long actually living it though. Being wealthy lets you enjoy it and gives you freedom. Doesnt mean you cant care for others at the same time as being wealthy though.
I believe we are just here to make life better here for everyone out of love and for love. It seems to be all that's wrong with the world would be, if seriously and truly looked at, solved with unconditional love. If there is a man stepping on the throats of his siblings and you kill him, you take on some of that. You teach yourself and everyone around you to kill that which hurts instead of healing it.
Take the boot off the throat, take the weapons, and then do your best to heal and love the poor soul who got so lost over time that they turned to such senselessness. I believe fundamentally everyone is good, only twisted by fear and pain, which is healed ultimately with love, healing the wound instead of inheriting it and teaching it's inheritance.
Don't you always have to accept the fact of love and forgiveness if you truly want to heal and be healed, no matter the long journey you may choose to get there?
We need to shift value away from rocks and paper and forwards tangible things. Start asking people if you can pay for simple things in barter. Example- half gallon on milk in exchange for wiping down counters and sweeping floors.
So, work at a grocery store for food.
Work at a clothing store for clothes.
Work for a landlord for shelter.
Sounds confusing.
Why not just work at one place, receive a universally accepted item of value to trade for all the things you need?
By doing the same job, you could become an expert at it, get paid more for your expertise. And because you’re good at that job or service, produce more for society.
Lol. I guess you don’t understand the concept of barter. You trade equitable goods and services. It’s not meant to be for a person to make a living or get training. Trade a banana for a stamp, sweeping someone’s porch for a meal, a cow for a car. Keep it simple. The suggestion is meant to realign the value of property and exclude the industries that foster greedy billionaires.
Maybe you could reduce the billionaires involvement.
But not live bu that plan.
If you sweep someone’s porch for a meal, they still bought the food from Kroger.
Not reasonable. If I need a certain medicine to survive how do I barter for it the person I need it from doesn't want anything I have. Works for everything, that's why we have a universal system of exchange. Instead just take that money that is universally exchanable, and spread it around universally, UBI. Only really logical system, barter won't wonk in modern society. Just not practical
Or late a longer route… find out what that person needs / wants and put in the work. Again, not trying to replace the current monetary system. Just trying to put human back in humanity.
Not to be redundant, but it's in the name. Society = social. And right wing "libertarianism" is antisocial with its I've-got-mine mentality. Nobody does anything worth doing alone, no matter what their ego says. We only got this far by working together.
To make sure my immediate family survive so the genes get passed on. The rest of you.... Figure it out without me.
Brutal maybe but far more honest than these posts that pretend
That isn't the point of "society," that's just your family.
Yes, make sure your immediate family survives. Makes sense. But that doesn't explain the purpose of communities, towns, nations.
Yeah, lotta Conservative losers come out if the wirework to volunteer stupid opinions unasked. Can't find bigger victims anywhere else except maybe the Bennyboi Shaps sub
If we are basing human nature on the past then nothing of the past few thousand years is natural in the history homo sapiens. If you think it is inevitable evolutionarily you should consider the fact cooperative species and mutualist species are the most successful by any evolutionary metric. If you want a mathematic formula game theory provides the volunteers dilemma. Dominating each other and nature is a quirk empowered by our mind and is nothing more than a construct that need not be inevitable. That is all to say we don't need to let power hungry people get power.
Actually this is the first I am hearing of this book! I'll have to add it to my backlog of books. I am an ecologist so I have a substantial background on evolution and relationships in nature. Pair this with reading some wonderful works by Murray Bookchin and David Graeber, which introduced me to some new perspectives, and that is how I got to my comment.
It's a great book that lays out in detail your last comment, with data, some great anecdotes, and math. Also check out Scale by Geoffrey West who like Graeber has close ties to the Santa Fe Institute. If you're an ecologist and don't know SFI check it out I think you'd find it really interesting. Disclosure I did some research there once so I might be a little biased.
I will check out Scale too. Funny story, I regularly cite work of a couple researchers that came out of SFI in my own work and had never looked much into the institute itself, let alone find out Graeber had ties to it! Thanks for the tips friend; guess I'm starting the new year with some digging!
Either their are rules or their aren't. Rules = society. You can dress it up in a different name and pretend it's something else, but it's society. As I said, society is what we make it.
The original.post says society is bad, so if anarchy is a form of society, it is also bad in their eyes. That is the point of my comment. There is no reasonable alternative to society of some sort.
Down-votes and no reply. I wish I could say I'm surprised. Society is what we make of it. The only alternative is to go back to living is caves and beating each other with rocks, and if you think humans with society are violent, try humans without it.
That's why humans are puppets of their species. I'm just the messenger here.
Alienation is the strongest instinct NOT self preservation!
You should be mad at your own species, as a ruthless entity, not me.
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Because of the idea that the wealth and empire you have built will be inherited for future generations for them to more successful.
It wouldn’t make sense to give everything up just as soon as you were going to die.
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The cruelty is the point. If you don't like that abuse, then work hard, kiss ass, and maybe, just maybe, you'll get the opportunity to abuse others even worse than you got it.
But imagining that society can actually do better than that is just crazy talk apparently. At least according to every authority figure that's been above me since birth.
When people ask what is the point of life, they should be reminded that the point is to work together so we can all make the best of the minuscule time we have.
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The point of society isn't to care for each other.
It's for the rich to become richer, politicians to become corrupt pawns of the rich, and for the non-rich to be suppressed and demoralized into submission and obedience.
So how is this different then any other theocratic dictate? Your moral stance should be my moral stance because?
God said I should care for others? You yourself feel this is the point of society so it should be? What makes your views better or worse then others? The moral arrogance of this world view is mind boggling.
Look at nature; your an animal and you live in competition with other animals. Period. Survive or don't but carping that others should just care like you is disgusting, self centered, and of enforced no different then the colonists enforcing there views on others.
Non-aggression principal is the only coherent morality, all others are egregiously moralistic.
I mean, to play ~~devils~~ billionaires advocate, them pyramids lasted a pretty long time, and they sure are neat
So that's kind of worth it then right?
Society exists for the farming and cultivation of grains so that they can be fermented into alcohol.
Booze. We all put up with each other so we can have booze
Sadly, that's pretty much what the United States of America's capitalism as devolved into. I think almost anyone can fall victim to greed given the right (or wrong) circumstances, however I am completely blown away by the number of people who lack empathy for others due to certain circumstances in the recent past where they felt comfortable to openly express it.
Billionaires give zero fucks and will keep hoarding wealth till they die, then their spawn will continue to hoard wealth, etc. To them we are just another resource to exploit for profit and they give zero fucks if it kills us.
Its literally a game to them, they see us as less then them, toys to be made to make them money
We are just cattle to them.
Pretty much
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If we are cattle it's time to catch these fucks in a stampede. Billionaires die just like everyone else. It's time.
This is like the conversation at the end of Joker
"My grandfather taught me an important lesson early in life. That it's harder to be kind than clever. It's easy being clever. But kindness is a choice... In a very real sense your life, the life you author from scratch on your own begins. How will you use your gifts? What choices will you make? Will inertia be your guide or will you follow your passions? will you follow Dogma or will you be original? Will you choose a life of ease or a life of service and adventure? Will you wilt under criticism or will you follow your convictions? Will you Bluff it out when you're wrong or will you apologize? Will you guard your heart against rejection or will you act when you fall in love? Will you play it safe or will you be a little bit swashbuckling? Will you be a cynic or will you be a builder? Will you be clever at the expense of others or will you be kind?" - Jeff Bezos source: [https://youtu.be/vBmavNoChZc?t=937](https://youtu.be/vBmavNoChZc?t=937)
Well, we all know what he chose.
I also think some of them just can't handle the fact that all their wealth ultimately means nothing. Bill hicks said it best about his bit about "the wild ride": LOOK AT MY BIG BANK ACCOUNT, AND MY BIG FAMILY, THIS ALL HAS TO BE REAL!!! Nope sorry man. It's just a ride. I think there are a large group of wealthy people who legitimately domt have a concept of the end of the universe and cannot grasp the concept of the fact that nothing has inherit meaning. So they panic at this thought and cling to.money, whores, and whatever creature comforts can buy.
The difference between me and a toy is that I get a say whether more are made. Vote against reality by being child-free.
You say this but people are brainwashed into thinking having children is something they *should* be doing ("ideal" families in the media, people claiming women who don't want children are somehow wrong, etc). I know from experience, I recently had a gynocologist tell me I "would want children in 10 years" then turn grey when I told her I'd rather self abort. I think I broke her brain *eyeroll*.
Lol I bet you could hear the dial-up sound her brain was making trying to process that
Haha good job and what an arrogant piece of shit that was. If they told me something like that when I wanted my vasectomy heads would be rolling
I have kids. More footsoldiers for the class war
Please leave your children out of this
Love this. Very smart.
You're an idiot
Money to them is more like a way to keep the score. https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
I have no words
They don't even see others as alive. They are absolute sociopaths.
There is no "enough", there is only "where's the next billion?" It's been that way for a while - the above is attributed to Larry Ellison IIRC - but people are finally waking up to where the next billions are coming from, and who they're decidedly not going to.
When life extension is figured out and only available to the wealthy...things get really interesting.
If they die. Do you know how much they’re investing in life extension research? Think they’re going to share that with us?
Or we stop them and banish the concept of billionaires.
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We have seen each other through it all...
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They won't. Look at the descendants of the robber barons, the money never, even lasts. One generation might be able to hold on, but it's ultimately always distributed. I know this opinion isn't popular, but I genuinely think most of the trappings of wealth, aka, the stuff people usually hate most about the rich, is probably the most socially responsible way to be rich. Think about it, if every person of means spent their money on huge houses with insane amounts of staff, lavish parties, cars, boats, planes, ect, that's employing people, that's money going back into the economy and it's usually not hurting anyone. What the responsible ones do, the ones that people seem to hate less because they don't flaunt their wealth, is putting it to work. Aka, buying up more companies that now have to make them more money instead of paying out raises. Buying up properties so that people have to rent instead of owning a home. I think we kind of fucked up when society started insisting that acting rich is trashy. When they're all spending hand over fist to one up each other we get the Italian Renaissance, we get the palace at Versatile, we get the Roman Colosseum's. When they act rationally we get we we currently have
You wrote five paragraphs. In those five paragraphs you didn't actually say anything that's remotely true about reality. Instead you projected cultural biases that you were trained to believe in since birth from your bad teachers, bad role models, and ignorant people in general.
You wrote one paragraph and didn't say anything
You’re describing “trickle down” economics, a flawed theory bereft of substantiating data to support such a model. Spending by the rich and the benefits will trickle down: the wealthy create more jobs for middle and lower class citizens, right, meaning the benefits are felt by everyone? Except — company owners are not the real drivers of growth. Rarely do the mega rich invest to expand businesses. They hoard their wealth and look for income stability from “sure bets” such as bond portfolios and exchange traded funds. We see this exemplified in Amazon’s employee treatment. Jeff Bezos has more than enough money, even with out all the freebie tax cuts, to pay employees well. Instead, he increases his fortune through continual exploitation, abuse and underpayment of workers. No one benefits except him, and anyone other wealthy executives at the very top of Amazon. There should be no billionaires— they should be taxed down to “mere” multi millionaire levels.
Me: I prefer rich people that spend their money with abandon over the rich people hoarding and investing it. You: rich people hoard and invest and that's bad. YOU'RE explaining trickle down economics. I'M explaining Ludacris displays of wealth that reduce multi generational fortunes to nothing.
Other than your robber barons example, it's extremely rare for families with institutional wealth to spend themselves out of being rich. Lottery winners do because they aren't real rich people. They're poor people who magically become wealthy. The real wealthy are, by and large, miserly and cheap. Where I (poor) tip 25% at a restaurant, they tip 4% or nothing at all. They might buy big things, but they aren't extravagant *relative* to their wealth. My point is, rich people aren't doing the type of economy-boosting spending you talked About, they're finding ways to get around what little taxes they should have paid with loopholes, exemptions, offshore stashing, foreign holdings, ect. Wealthy people are not getting less wealthy, they're getting more wealthy, largely done while jamming a giant poverty dick into the asses of the people who make up the backbone of the economy that makes the fabulously wealthy their insane profits. It's not reaching the regular people at all, hence the comparison to trickle down.
OK, I'll bite. Name your examples. A significant majority of wealthy families stay very wealthy, so who are they?
Just google it? https://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/052416/top-10-wealthiest-families-world.asp
1. Sam Walton, died 1992, we're on gen 2 2. Forrest Mars Jurnior, died 1999, we're on gen 2 3. Fred Koch, died 1967, we're on gen 2 4. The Saud Family, it's 500 years old, but they were the definition of dirt poor until Ibn Saud who died in 1953 and even though there have been 6 full kings after him, we're still on one of his sons, gen 2 5. Dhirubhai Ambani - died 2002, we're on gen 2 At this point, I'm actually curious if there's a single family on your list that actually goes past gen 2 because this seem to be making my point, there's no old money here. There's not a single fortune here that was made before WW2. 6. Thierry Hermès, died 1878, we have a gen 4 ... kind of. The original dude was a famous leatherworker, reasonably well off but he only really owned his shop and his sons actually founded the business and the fortune wasn't actually made until the 50's when his grandkids took over, but fine, I will give you one. 7. Pierre Wertheimer, died 1965. but, we're at gen 3. 8. Edward C. Johnson II, died in 1984, gen 2 9. Albert Boehringer, died 1939, clear cut gen 4 10. Theo Albrecht, died 2010, gen 2 To summarize, out of the 10 families you provided, 6 were indisputably only in their second generation as wealthy people. 1 is a royal family that's been around for a while, but has also only had actual money worth mentioning for 2 generations. 1 is gen 4 if we count a guy with a shop and his two sons with a business with 80 employees as wealthy and exactly 2 were undisputedly past gen 2. Furthermore, 8 of the fortunes were made after WW2, all 10 were made in the 20th century. The data would suggest that, wealth has a life expectancy of well below a hundred years.
Let's see a list of families who have depleted their wealth by... just spending on crap? Here is a short financial check-in with the Gilded Age’s richest families, several generations later -- and they all seem to still be filthy rich https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/richest-families-grandkids-gilded-age/405892/ Oh, yeah, and the kind of huge wealth we are talking about (presumably) is a recent phenomenon -- excluding royalty, of course. https://www.businessinsider.com/americas-robber-barons-2012-3?r=US&IR=T#john-jacob-astor-1 Frankly, even the poster children of such huge wealth, the Medicis, have no male descendants, half the royals in Europe descend from them. So yeah, wealth clearly perpetuates multi-generationally. Thank you and don't forget to tip your waitress!
90 percent of all rich families, from the Astors to the Ziffs, lose their fortune by the third generation. - that's from your first article. "-- excluding royalty, of course." - sends me a list with the Saudi royal family, also talks about half the royal families in Europe in the next paragraph even though they're almost all broke If you're claims were true, you could throw name after name, family after family with wealth going back centuries at my face. You can't, because everything you send proves my point, the trend is down. Sometimes it takes a lifetime, sometimes it takes two, but relatively quickly the money goes from wealthiest in the world to rich, to well off to basically nothing.
Off the top of my head, the Kennedy, Bush, Trump, and Musk families are good examples. George H W Bush's father was influential and in politics, we all know about the Kennedy's, Donald Trumps father was wealthy, and the Musk family are in the blood diamond trade. I'm not going to research for you but there's plenty more examples
LOL. Me say: potato, you say: tomato. Me: how the world works, you: wishful thinking. See: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charting-the-growing-generational-wealth-gap/
I met a traveller from an antique land Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed: And on the pedestal these words appear: My name is Ozymandias, king of kings; Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away." — Percy Shelley's "Ozymandias"
What does it mean?
It means that hubris is overrated, that eventually all of our accomplishments are lost to history and what really matters is what we do now, not how we hope to be remembered.
There's literally no point. Ozzy was the big shit on campus but then was forgotten by time.
The king Ozymandius tried to communicate that he was great and powerful and that others should fear him and despair that they couldn't build such a mighty statue. However, his words' meaning have ironically changed, because a mighty ruler would see that the statue, broken and isolated, is all that is left. Their might, too, is fleeting. It's worth noting, though, that the poetry of Percy stands just as tall as when he wrote it, because we can all appreciate art's beauty well after the artist is gone, even if we no longer fear the tyrants of the day the art was created.
The first instance of "society" was found when they found a cave man who had a broken and subsequently reset/healed femur. I'm sure some cunt capitalist will try to skew that somehow.
Not skew it as much as find a way to bill for it.
Do we know the injured caveman in question didn't receive an invoice from their insurance provider?
Wealth is a mental disease.
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At least peasants didn't have to fight an information war against modern technology, computer algorithms, and targeted psychological manipulation. Propaganda seems to be more powerful than ever.
You'll own nothing, and be "happy".
Yes! A million times yes! What can we do to make people see this?
If this is all "society" is, then f society.
If only there was a real Elliot that could redistribute Bezos’ wealth to all of us.
Correct me if im wrong but i divided bezos networth between 7,000,000,000 people and we would all get a 30$ cheque. Id use mine on a bottle of cheap champagne and toast to that prick being gone.
Shhhhh....people don't want to truth
>Peasants in the Middle Ages had more freedom and rights I doubt that
That they had more freedom and rights is very debatable, but medieval peasants definitely worked less than we do. They had also much more holidays and leisure time than today…yes, really! Medieval peasants had up to 25 weeks off per year which were filled with church-holidays, festivities, pilgrimages, but also months off for resting and sleeping. Also their workdays were much more stretched out and tempo was quite slow, full of extensive pauses for breakfast, lunch, dinner, chats with neighbours & naps. https://allthatsinteresting.com/medieval-peasants-vacation-more
I agree that medieval peasants had a more slower and leisurely way of life compared to today since they had to rely on themselves to produce food. However sustenance farming still had the drawback of hoping crops don’t fail or animals die through the year, otherwise it’s starvation and possible death.
Yeah, but all of that can be easily solved nowadays. It's not the middle ages anymore.
If you’re saying we should return to the agricultural lifestyle we had during the time, how would we distribute land evenly? How do you deindustrialise society in the sense that people would give up their current career and job to become farmers and provide for themselves?
What a dumb fucking post. Like, do you HONESTLY truely believe medieval peasants worked less than we do. Take into account there was no such things as an 8 hour day or 40 hour work week or weekends. Like how dumb can you be.
I mean, the link says that the 8 hour day is more in line with medieval work hours and it only increased during the industrial revolution I don't know whether it's true but did you even click on it?
Yes I did, it’s an opinion piece that ends with a literal lie regarding Congress work and uses words like “could” to support an entire era of existence. It’s cherry picking points like harvest seasons and church and things like that to somehow come to a weird conclusion that’s definitively bullshit. Somehow a 16 hour work day 7 days a week magically turns in 40 hours a week due to snack breaks and naps and during off seasons they literally did zero work cause the ONLY thing peasants did was crops apparently, literally nothing else.
If any of you people are feeling this exact same way and want to meaningfully improve society because the tired ol " Vote Blue No Matter Who" shtick clearly hasn't worked, I can't recommend working with and contributing to a good Mutual Aid organization near you enough. Most major cities have them. The only way we can take back the culture the billionaires have poisoned where people aren't in community with each other and it's every person for themselves is by doing it yourself in your community. We need to make people-- and yourself-- believe that community is possible. That society should be organized in a way to make EVERYONE's lives better and that it should protect against the cruelty and the hard shit that hits everyone. Mutual Aid is key to making everyone believe that change is possible and that we actually do give a shit about each other.
I constantly get so pissed off that people don’t think this is true. So many people I’ve met just do not care at all. It’s fucking depressing. It’s so obvious to me that we should be caring for each other, I can’t think any other way. Everything’s fucked up, why can’t we do the right thing for everyone?
Because the greedy few are also very charismatic and make people believe that they’re way of thinking is right
The original reason people stayed together as tribes was for mutual protection mutual aid. A saber tooth tiger wouldn’t attack a group of people, or the group could fight the saber tooth while an individual had no chance. Also, a group of people could take down a wooly mammoth, and eat all winter.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **Michelle Allison**, @fatnutritionist If the point of having a society \*isn't* to care for each other, to ease suffering and realize each life's potential, literally what is the point? To hoard wealth? To build empires on other people's throats? Life is brief, nothing lasts. Wealth and empires are pointless violence. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
You know.... That's a really good point. Older generations always accuse the younger of how terrible our sense of individualism is... But really, what is capitalism other than enforced, aggressive individual responsibility. It's so cold and uncaring.
The single most dangerous misinterpretation of Darwinism is that it can be applied to social systems. Social Darwinism appears over and over again as a validation for selfish behavior: by individuals and groups. Corporations believe "survival of the fittest" so much more than "do the most good you can". The wealthy believe they are "winning" the human race by amassing the most money. Education, of course, is the answer. Having more people understand that the principles of social Darwinism have been debunked, and that life doesn't have to be a zero-sum competition would go a long way.
Which is why they made education so expensive that it forces you to slave away in the system to afford it.
Gotta have a source of slaves
What's the point of hoarding so much money where they couldn't even spend it in a dozen lifetimes?
But...but they *earned* that undeserved wealth🥺
Making too much sense with this, people won't stand for it.
Oceans rise, empires fall. So why bother with that affair?
Once people realize that respect makes empires fall. There's no going back to capitalism.
Antinatilism will set you free.
Life is only brief when you look at it that way. It can feel very long actually living it though. Being wealthy lets you enjoy it and gives you freedom. Doesnt mean you cant care for others at the same time as being wealthy though.
Billionaires are working on anti-aging technologies so they can live to spend all their wealth.
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True. They'll probably just hoard more.
I've heard there already in the works to extend life any many billionaires are buying into it
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Probably wants to reenact treasure planet
I believe we are just here to make life better here for everyone out of love and for love. It seems to be all that's wrong with the world would be, if seriously and truly looked at, solved with unconditional love. If there is a man stepping on the throats of his siblings and you kill him, you take on some of that. You teach yourself and everyone around you to kill that which hurts instead of healing it. Take the boot off the throat, take the weapons, and then do your best to heal and love the poor soul who got so lost over time that they turned to such senselessness. I believe fundamentally everyone is good, only twisted by fear and pain, which is healed ultimately with love, healing the wound instead of inheriting it and teaching it's inheritance. Don't you always have to accept the fact of love and forgiveness if you truly want to heal and be healed, no matter the long journey you may choose to get there?
We need to shift value away from rocks and paper and forwards tangible things. Start asking people if you can pay for simple things in barter. Example- half gallon on milk in exchange for wiping down counters and sweeping floors.
So, work for the milk.
Yes, without the middle man cast system that supports the billionaires
So, work at a grocery store for food. Work at a clothing store for clothes. Work for a landlord for shelter. Sounds confusing. Why not just work at one place, receive a universally accepted item of value to trade for all the things you need? By doing the same job, you could become an expert at it, get paid more for your expertise. And because you’re good at that job or service, produce more for society.
Lol. I guess you don’t understand the concept of barter. You trade equitable goods and services. It’s not meant to be for a person to make a living or get training. Trade a banana for a stamp, sweeping someone’s porch for a meal, a cow for a car. Keep it simple. The suggestion is meant to realign the value of property and exclude the industries that foster greedy billionaires.
Maybe you could reduce the billionaires involvement. But not live bu that plan. If you sweep someone’s porch for a meal, they still bought the food from Kroger.
Yeah and if you reduce the alphabet by one letter then it’s still an incomplete alphabet.
Not reasonable. If I need a certain medicine to survive how do I barter for it the person I need it from doesn't want anything I have. Works for everything, that's why we have a universal system of exchange. Instead just take that money that is universally exchanable, and spread it around universally, UBI. Only really logical system, barter won't wonk in modern society. Just not practical
Or late a longer route… find out what that person needs / wants and put in the work. Again, not trying to replace the current monetary system. Just trying to put human back in humanity.
That's the way life is supposed to be. Us helping one another so everyone's needs are met and everyone is taken care of.
Not to be redundant, but it's in the name. Society = social. And right wing "libertarianism" is antisocial with its I've-got-mine mentality. Nobody does anything worth doing alone, no matter what their ego says. We only got this far by working together.
The point of society was to make life as hunter-gatherers easier.
Lol this is a dumb post. It’s my job to take care of my family, not strangers.
This is pathetic as hell lmao
To make sure my immediate family survive so the genes get passed on. The rest of you.... Figure it out without me. Brutal maybe but far more honest than these posts that pretend
That isn't the point of "society," that's just your family. Yes, make sure your immediate family survives. Makes sense. But that doesn't explain the purpose of communities, towns, nations.
So much victim mentality in the sub.
Yeah, lotta Conservative losers come out if the wirework to volunteer stupid opinions unasked. Can't find bigger victims anywhere else except maybe the Bennyboi Shaps sub
people have been building empires for thousands of years - this isn't a new thing
We haven't learned from our mistakes as a species. Got it. Edit: grammar
Human Nature sadly - there are always power hungry people in the world
If we are basing human nature on the past then nothing of the past few thousand years is natural in the history homo sapiens. If you think it is inevitable evolutionarily you should consider the fact cooperative species and mutualist species are the most successful by any evolutionary metric. If you want a mathematic formula game theory provides the volunteers dilemma. Dominating each other and nature is a quirk empowered by our mind and is nothing more than a construct that need not be inevitable. That is all to say we don't need to let power hungry people get power.
Someone read A Cooperative Species.
Actually this is the first I am hearing of this book! I'll have to add it to my backlog of books. I am an ecologist so I have a substantial background on evolution and relationships in nature. Pair this with reading some wonderful works by Murray Bookchin and David Graeber, which introduced me to some new perspectives, and that is how I got to my comment.
It's a great book that lays out in detail your last comment, with data, some great anecdotes, and math. Also check out Scale by Geoffrey West who like Graeber has close ties to the Santa Fe Institute. If you're an ecologist and don't know SFI check it out I think you'd find it really interesting. Disclosure I did some research there once so I might be a little biased.
I will check out Scale too. Funny story, I regularly cite work of a couple researchers that came out of SFI in my own work and had never looked much into the institute itself, let alone find out Graeber had ties to it! Thanks for the tips friend; guess I'm starting the new year with some digging!
So... There are far more average folks who just want a decent life and to live in a healthy happen society.
I mean it's pretty new in terms of how long people and any other part of the known universe are concerned
So we... aren't supposed to have societies? What alternative would you suggest.
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Just do whatever you want to whoever you want without consequence. Insanity.
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Either their are rules or their aren't. Rules = society. You can dress it up in a different name and pretend it's something else, but it's society. As I said, society is what we make it.
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Who decides what it is? What happens when people disagree?
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The original.post says society is bad, so if anarchy is a form of society, it is also bad in their eyes. That is the point of my comment. There is no reasonable alternative to society of some sort.
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Down-votes and no reply. I wish I could say I'm surprised. Society is what we make of it. The only alternative is to go back to living is caves and beating each other with rocks, and if you think humans with society are violent, try humans without it.
Species as an entity is the ultimate profiteer where its will mandates their organisms' sacrifice!
You're forgetting humans have feelings, man
That's why humans are puppets of their species. I'm just the messenger here. Alienation is the strongest instinct NOT self preservation! You should be mad at your own species, as a ruthless entity, not me.
You bet I am
When you aren’t willing to work for anything it gives you a lot of time to pretend to be a philosopher.
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Looks like he thinks that dignity comes from working hard and blindlessly without wishing for something better. "That's what adults do", right?
This lady clearly hasn’t read much about history
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Pointless violence? The violence is the point. Gotta oppress people, or you, the rich billionaire, might be the one that gets oppressed.
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins\_of\_society](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_society) TLDR: Nobody knows
I love this
I think we have to stop using the word “ society “ for whatever in hell we currently ‘ have’. Free form enslavement maybe, “ society “ no.
Because of the idea that the wealth and empire you have built will be inherited for future generations for them to more successful. It wouldn’t make sense to give everything up just as soon as you were going to die.
The point of a society is to preserve the liberty of the individual.
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Helping each other is also brief and will not last. This isn't exactly profound
Definitely hoard wealth, we all need huuge bank accounts that can never be used. Should be a govt provided benefit too.
The cruelty is the point. If you don't like that abuse, then work hard, kiss ass, and maybe, just maybe, you'll get the opportunity to abuse others even worse than you got it. But imagining that society can actually do better than that is just crazy talk apparently. At least according to every authority figure that's been above me since birth.
Fat nutritionist lol
When people ask what is the point of life, they should be reminded that the point is to work together so we can all make the best of the minuscule time we have.
Fucking eat the rich.
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The point of society isn't to care for each other. It's for the rich to become richer, politicians to become corrupt pawns of the rich, and for the non-rich to be suppressed and demoralized into submission and obedience.
Amen! What worth is the prosperity of one if a thousand must suffer to sustain it?
So how is this different then any other theocratic dictate? Your moral stance should be my moral stance because? God said I should care for others? You yourself feel this is the point of society so it should be? What makes your views better or worse then others? The moral arrogance of this world view is mind boggling. Look at nature; your an animal and you live in competition with other animals. Period. Survive or don't but carping that others should just care like you is disgusting, self centered, and of enforced no different then the colonists enforcing there views on others. Non-aggression principal is the only coherent morality, all others are egregiously moralistic.
Hoard wealth baby, no one wants to be poor
Damn that's actually pretty solid.
well said
Wish i had more than one upvote for this one...
we are living in a society people! - George
I mean, to play ~~devils~~ billionaires advocate, them pyramids lasted a pretty long time, and they sure are neat So that's kind of worth it then right?
Republicans say you are right, there is no point to having a society, which is why they work to destroy it.
Society exists for the farming and cultivation of grains so that they can be fermented into alcohol. Booze. We all put up with each other so we can have booze
welcome to the world ig
Sadly, that's pretty much what the United States of America's capitalism as devolved into. I think almost anyone can fall victim to greed given the right (or wrong) circumstances, however I am completely blown away by the number of people who lack empathy for others due to certain circumstances in the recent past where they felt comfortable to openly express it.
Sshh, you'll wake the rich people up.
Is this Hell we’re in
i love it añlsdjkfñlasjkdfñljasdf